Jeg er så utrolig glad for at jeg er ferdig med alle disse tvangsritualene! Og i morgen er det søndag, og jeg skal sove leeeeenge! Og kanskje går jeg ut og KJØPER noe, en is eller noe slikt! HURRA for FRIHETEN!!!!
Betaler ikke medlemmen av denne sekten sine "offergaver" betegnes de som andrerangs medlemmer. Disse kommer ikke inn i Guds rike og mennene får ikke lov å ha flere hustruer etter at de er døde!! En av denne sektens grunnpilarer er polygamiet...Dette får ikke vi utenfor vite noe om...selvfølgelig. Dette får bare innvidde førsterangs medlemmer vite om i deres hemmelige templer. Der utfører de bisarre okkulte hemmelige ritualer og sermonier ikledd underlige kjortler, slør og "hellige" kapper.
My parents joined the Mormon cult when I was one year old. I went on my mission to Norway and married a Norwegian. We both realized we were in a cult last year when the PBS special came out. I feel sorry for people like Hive Radical and others trying to defend this ridiculous, dishonest religion. I used to be like him as a missionary. I just assumed my tradition was true and did all I could to make it look that way for others. But this is backwards. Thanks for trying to expose the cult in Norway
Det står i Mormonbibelen at Kain elsket Satan mer enn Gud, og at Kain skal være "far" til Satans løgner, det står også at han fikk mange døtre og sønner. Det står også at Kains etterkommere var sorte. Er det en profet som har åpenbart dette? Og er det slik at alle sorte mennesker i følge den mormonske lære er egentlig tilhengere av Satan?
Var det ikke også slik at "Den eneste sanne kirke"s tidligere ledere, både sektens grunnlegger J. Smith jr. og likeså Brigham Young ddrev med seksuelle overgrep mot flere yngre tenåringsjenter (under påskudd at han var gift med dem), og at det også ble bedrevet omfattende incestovergrep, drap av motstandere av sekten, drap av egne medlemmer av sekten iflg. sektens eget rituale om "Blodsoning"?
Ja, du har rett. Problemet er at folk fremdeles blir lurt med i denne organisasjonen fordi de har kostet fortiden sin under matta. De fleste medlemmene i dag vet ikke engang om Joseph Smiths seerstein. Fasaden er finpusset, men det historiske grunnlaget som denne kirkebygningen er bygget på er råttent.
De eneste "eneste sanne kirke"s lederskap vil selvfælgelig aldri innrømme at "opplysningens tidsalder" har avslørt denn okkulte sekten.
De truer jo også sine "hellige" medsammensvorne med at halsen skal bli skåret over og at innvollene skall falle ut av buken hvis de selv en gang skal bli overbevist om at "den eneste sanne kirke på jorden" er falsk.
Makabert! Hva har dette å gjøre med en kristen Gud å gjøre?
3: the sealed earth/heaven theory: Sure, Peter, James and John possessed the necessary keys of salvation, why not? The Lord has told us to place these complicated conditions into understandable ceremonies. We are free to choose how. Why not through freemasonry?
"...Und wenn die Zeit kommt, da abermals böse Frucht in meinen Weingarten kommen wird, dann werde ich das Gute und das Schlechte sammeln lassen; und das Gute werde ich für mich selbst bewahren, und das Schlechte werde ich an seinen eigenen Platz werfen lassen. Und dann nähern sich die kommende Zeit und das Ende; und meinen Weingarten werde ich mit Feuer verbrennen lassen."
My dear, have you discovered the mistake Joseph did? He put an olive tree in a vineyard... It's not easy to make a new religion and make everything right, poor guy. But he soon discovered that people will believe absolutely anything as long as you tell them that they are more special than everybody else...
6 ¶ He (Christ) spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
--Luke 13
If the one perfect man had fig trees placed in vineyards, what have you against one of his prophets placing olive trees there?
Well, why don't you ask the Mormon Church's authorities about that, because in their latest edition of the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on earth) they took away the word vineyard. If you want a list of most of the changes that have been done to the Book of Mormon (over 3900 changes) since 1830, read "Mormonism, Shadow or Reality" of Gerald and Sandra Tanner (Utah Lighthouse Ministry.
Do you really want to know the truth about Mormonism? Maybe you need to do what I did. I took the illustrations in the Book of Abraham and sent them to an expert of old Egyptian language at the Univ. of London. He told me what the illustrations and the Egyptian letters really meant. Joseph Smith copied the Egyptian letters which belonged to the illustrations into the Book of Abraham. I lost all my illutions about the LDS church after that.
Try the book "The Joseph Smith Papyrus: An Egyptian Endowment"
It has the demotic text of the snsn text/Breathings Text/recovered Joseph Smith Papyrus translated. Yes the text available is Egyptian funerary text. But it's not an open and shut case on that.
I'd dare say I've investigated this more than you have. The fact that the characters are Egyptian Funerary texts isn't the grand slam you seem to think it is.
What is YOUR grand slam then, my friend? So, you have read Nibley's work on this matter.. Well, so have I, and I have read FairLDS and Jeff Lindsay's views on it also. What is your main point? That some of the fragments of the papyri are still missing? That one cannot judge Smith's translation because science is locked in a Rosetta Stone paradigm? Or do you simply doubt the hypothetical-deductive method?
Since when does one need a 'grand slam.' The only thing to be demonstrated is that the evidence, and conclusions people have attempted to tie to it, are far from certain. I'm simply demonstrating the lack of a grand slam on the other end.
2: Endowment: Have you read the available First Hand Sources regarding the origin of the temple ceremonies? Do you realize why they are similar to the original egyptian ceremonies? The Freemason/Egyptian link isn't as farfetched as you would like it to be. Try me
Yes. It doesn't strike you as interesting that such ties run through history, and that Joseph managed to tie Abraham to Hermetic traditions that span through Egyptian rites and Hebraic Temple traditions AND get a theology that matches with significant elements of those? And all this while maintaining ties to a theology that takes the Bible as literally, if not more so, than just about any other tradition?
It is interesting. But it was hardly Joseph Smith who tied Abraham to Hermetisism. The similarities between Hebraic and Egyptian tradititions and rites does appear to have sprung from this single source, but the Book of Abraham is not the missing link. The Christian Godhead is taken directly from "Hermetic 101". Theres a thin red line through all of it. But Smith's patchwork makes him a genious, not a prophet.
Don't you see that the very history Smith offers lines up with the history that's been revealed up to now.
A common source at the beginning of human history followed by various apostate divergences and losses of the truth followed by a number of divine dispensations/restorations would land you with the 'red line' through nigh all significant religions.
Yes I do. That's why I looked into it. The core issue is that Smith was spot on. He even knew or understood that the "everything" was an entity above the Three, suggesting that there are multiple Gods, one above the other. Young elaborated on this with the Adam-God theory, which I find very intriguing, even plausible. I suggest we take this specific issue off the forum, as it is very complex.
4: You need to read to understand. You are quick to judge and criticize, and to place yourself above others that have an unspoiled and uncorrupted understanding of this. You have failed, because your investigations are consumed by prejudice.
You have failed because you assume that it's possible to have an objective, or sufficiently objective, view of this. To pretend such is to adhere to a patently false dogmatic creed. NO ONE is objective on this, no one can be.
You sound in a way like an intelligent person.. How can you believe in the Mormon religion? Seer stones and magic thinking? And all that "endowment" nonsens that Jo learned from the masons? Were you born in this cult? I was 5 years when my mother became a member. The first time I discovered that something was wrong was when I saw the film that Wells made about the indian DNA. Don't you react to that either? You just swallow all the ad hoc theorys FARMS came up with?
I do not see the evidence as conclusive. Do you understand the limitations of the DNA evidence employed thus far? Do you understand the problem with using just two lines of descent to determine the whole of a person's ancestry? These are more than ad hod theories, these are serious deficiencies that are glossed over by the critics.
Are you a paid agent for the Mormon Church? We have guys like you here in Norway too. Joseph Smith jr. was a fraud. The Garden of Eden in Missouri...? Do you really believe that? And he was crowned as King of the earth in Nauvoo by the council of fifty... Sick. And Brigham Young and his Adam-God theory... And John Taylor who said that the negro was Satan's representative on earth... Get real and get a life!!
Eden was likely near Missouri, I don't know if it was in Missouri.
The placement of Joseph as "king" is a bit out of context.
Adam-god theory is neither what you portray it as nor even doctrinally established.
Neither is the Taylor comment in full context of our beliefs. We believe the Jews and Israel to be "God's chosen people" yet the worst acts committed by any Humans were done by that very people.
When you finally are able to free yourself from this brainwash you will understand that there is no such thing on earth as a "chosen people". All people are equal, nobody is chosen. You should read the 5 books of Ove Von Spaeth about Moses. Very interesting reading. Gives you a broad understanding of the background of Islam, Jewism and Christianity.
Why wouldn't God have specific things set out for specific groups to do? Isn't He a God of order? Just because people are chosen for various roles doesn't make God a respecter of persons. In fact if God did not have chosen people, and an order set, it would be quite easy to demonstrate, through present inequalities, that God is (which he isn't) a respecter of persons.
Well, you just have to believe whatever you choose to believe. I just want to tell you that the feeling of freedom that came over me after I left the cult was enormous and gave me a happiness I have never felt the time I was a member. I understood for the first time what Jesus meant when he said that the truth shall make you free. And I wish that for you too. Ciao!
I do not doubt your feelings. I might mention the following, not at all to say that you are evil, nor that your feelings of freedom stem from the same source, nor that you are personally in any way close to an equivalent situation. Simply to demonstrate that the feeling of freedom is not exclusive to true liberation-please don't take this the wrong way-
"And Cain gloried in that which he had done, saying: <b>I am free</b>"
Are you sure you feel ok, my dear? You should not say things like that to people even if you have a different opinion, you know. When you recover from Mormonism, remember what you said to an innocent person. I'm not angry, I'm just sorry that your understanding has been biased to such a degree. Please start reading the Bible instead of Joseph's novel. Maybe Jesus can help you to heal. You're welcome back here any time. Hugs, M.
I was not saying that you'd done any massive great sin of commission. I was trying to demonstrate that simply obtaining a feeling of great liberation is not inherently tied to the obtainment of truth.
Look into what Origen realized. He saw that for people to be born into this world in drastically different positions would either mean that their placement here was dependent on past positions in a previous existence OR you would have to conclude that God was an arbitrary being, and thusly completely an untenable figure with respect to claims of him being Just and Righteous and Omniscient.
I tillegg avkreves sektmedlemmene, både fattig og rik, MINST 10% av sine årlige inntekter gjennom et finurlig Multi Level Marketing-system.
For en minstepensjonist utgjør dette ca. 15.000,- i året.
lobo10mert 3 years ago
Jeg er så utrolig glad for at jeg er ferdig med alle disse tvangsritualene! Og i morgen er det søndag, og jeg skal sove leeeeenge! Og kanskje går jeg ut og KJØPER noe, en is eller noe slikt! HURRA for FRIHETEN!!!!
MamaWortsh 3 years ago
Betaler ikke medlemmen av denne sekten sine "offergaver" betegnes de som andrerangs medlemmer. Disse kommer ikke inn i Guds rike og mennene får ikke lov å ha flere hustruer etter at de er døde!! En av denne sektens grunnpilarer er polygamiet...Dette får ikke vi utenfor vite noe om...selvfølgelig. Dette får bare innvidde førsterangs medlemmer vite om i deres hemmelige templer. Der utfører de bisarre okkulte hemmelige ritualer og sermonier ikledd underlige kjortler, slør og "hellige" kapper.
lobo10mert 3 years ago
My parents joined the Mormon cult when I was one year old. I went on my mission to Norway and married a Norwegian. We both realized we were in a cult last year when the PBS special came out. I feel sorry for people like Hive Radical and others trying to defend this ridiculous, dishonest religion. I used to be like him as a missionary. I just assumed my tradition was true and did all I could to make it look that way for others. But this is backwards. Thanks for trying to expose the cult in Norway
MormonNegro 3 years ago
Det står i Mormonbibelen at Kain elsket Satan mer enn Gud, og at Kain skal være "far" til Satans løgner, det står også at han fikk mange døtre og sønner. Det står også at Kains etterkommere var sorte. Er det en profet som har åpenbart dette? Og er det slik at alle sorte mennesker i følge den mormonske lære er egentlig tilhengere av Satan?
123webben 4 years ago
Var det ikke også slik at "Den eneste sanne kirke"s tidligere ledere, både sektens grunnlegger J. Smith jr. og likeså Brigham Young ddrev med seksuelle overgrep mot flere yngre tenåringsjenter (under påskudd at han var gift med dem), og at det også ble bedrevet omfattende incestovergrep, drap av motstandere av sekten, drap av egne medlemmer av sekten iflg. sektens eget rituale om "Blodsoning"?
123webben 4 years ago
Skjønner meget godt at de øvrige KRISTNE trossamfunn vi holde minst en armlengdes avstand fra disse fundamentalistene.
123webben 4 years ago
Ja, du har rett. Problemet er at folk fremdeles blir lurt med i denne organisasjonen fordi de har kostet fortiden sin under matta. De fleste medlemmene i dag vet ikke engang om Joseph Smiths seerstein. Fasaden er finpusset, men det historiske grunnlaget som denne kirkebygningen er bygget på er råttent.
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
Den kristne Guds sannhetsvitner ifl. "Den eneste sanne kirke på jord" søk etter: Mormons`s secret temple sermonies
123webben 4 years ago
De eneste "eneste sanne kirke"s lederskap vil selvfælgelig aldri innrømme at "opplysningens tidsalder" har avslørt denn okkulte sekten.
De truer jo også sine "hellige" medsammensvorne med at halsen skal bli skåret over og at innvollene skall falle ut av buken hvis de selv en gang skal bli overbevist om at "den eneste sanne kirke på jorden" er falsk.
Makabert! Hva har dette å gjøre med en kristen Gud å gjøre?
123webben 4 years ago
3: the sealed earth/heaven theory: Sure, Peter, James and John possessed the necessary keys of salvation, why not? The Lord has told us to place these complicated conditions into understandable ceremonies. We are free to choose how. Why not through freemasonry?
00SDH00 4 years ago
"...Und wenn die Zeit kommt, da abermals böse Frucht in meinen Weingarten kommen wird, dann werde ich das Gute und das Schlechte sammeln lassen; und das Gute werde ich für mich selbst bewahren, und das Schlechte werde ich an seinen eigenen Platz werfen lassen. Und dann nähern sich die kommende Zeit und das Ende; und meinen Weingarten werde ich mit Feuer verbrennen lassen."
HiveRadical 4 years ago
My dear, have you discovered the mistake Joseph did? He put an olive tree in a vineyard... It's not easy to make a new religion and make everything right, poor guy. But he soon discovered that people will believe absolutely anything as long as you tell them that they are more special than everybody else...
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
6 ¶ He (Christ) spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
--Luke 13
If the one perfect man had fig trees placed in vineyards, what have you against one of his prophets placing olive trees there?
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Well, why don't you ask the Mormon Church's authorities about that, because in their latest edition of the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on earth) they took away the word vineyard. If you want a list of most of the changes that have been done to the Book of Mormon (over 3900 changes) since 1830, read "Mormonism, Shadow or Reality" of Gerald and Sandra Tanner (Utah Lighthouse Ministry.
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
Uh... they may have removed an instance of it, but the word vineyard is still found in Jacob 5
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Do you really want to know the truth about Mormonism? Maybe you need to do what I did. I took the illustrations in the Book of Abraham and sent them to an expert of old Egyptian language at the Univ. of London. He told me what the illustrations and the Egyptian letters really meant. Joseph Smith copied the Egyptian letters which belonged to the illustrations into the Book of Abraham. I lost all my illutions about the LDS church after that.
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
Try the book "The Joseph Smith Papyrus: An Egyptian Endowment"
It has the demotic text of the snsn text/Breathings Text/recovered Joseph Smith Papyrus translated. Yes the text available is Egyptian funerary text. But it's not an open and shut case on that.
I'd dare say I've investigated this more than you have. The fact that the characters are Egyptian Funerary texts isn't the grand slam you seem to think it is.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
What is YOUR grand slam then, my friend? So, you have read Nibley's work on this matter.. Well, so have I, and I have read FairLDS and Jeff Lindsay's views on it also. What is your main point? That some of the fragments of the papyri are still missing? That one cannot judge Smith's translation because science is locked in a Rosetta Stone paradigm? Or do you simply doubt the hypothetical-deductive method?
00SDH00 4 years ago
Since when does one need a 'grand slam.' The only thing to be demonstrated is that the evidence, and conclusions people have attempted to tie to it, are far from certain. I'm simply demonstrating the lack of a grand slam on the other end.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
2: Endowment: Have you read the available First Hand Sources regarding the origin of the temple ceremonies? Do you realize why they are similar to the original egyptian ceremonies? The Freemason/Egyptian link isn't as farfetched as you would like it to be. Try me
00SDH00 4 years ago
Yes. It doesn't strike you as interesting that such ties run through history, and that Joseph managed to tie Abraham to Hermetic traditions that span through Egyptian rites and Hebraic Temple traditions AND get a theology that matches with significant elements of those? And all this while maintaining ties to a theology that takes the Bible as literally, if not more so, than just about any other tradition?
HiveRadical 4 years ago
It is interesting. But it was hardly Joseph Smith who tied Abraham to Hermetisism. The similarities between Hebraic and Egyptian tradititions and rites does appear to have sprung from this single source, but the Book of Abraham is not the missing link. The Christian Godhead is taken directly from "Hermetic 101". Theres a thin red line through all of it. But Smith's patchwork makes him a genious, not a prophet.
Auintr 4 years ago
Don't you see that the very history Smith offers lines up with the history that's been revealed up to now.
A common source at the beginning of human history followed by various apostate divergences and losses of the truth followed by a number of divine dispensations/restorations would land you with the 'red line' through nigh all significant religions.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Yes I do. That's why I looked into it. The core issue is that Smith was spot on. He even knew or understood that the "everything" was an entity above the Three, suggesting that there are multiple Gods, one above the other. Young elaborated on this with the Adam-God theory, which I find very intriguing, even plausible. I suggest we take this specific issue off the forum, as it is very complex.
00SDH00 4 years ago
4: You need to read to understand. You are quick to judge and criticize, and to place yourself above others that have an unspoiled and uncorrupted understanding of this. You have failed, because your investigations are consumed by prejudice.
00SDH00 4 years ago
You have failed because you assume that it's possible to have an objective, or sufficiently objective, view of this. To pretend such is to adhere to a patently false dogmatic creed. NO ONE is objective on this, no one can be.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
5: And how the heck do you know Norwegian/German/English, Hiveradical?
00SDH00 4 years ago
Who said I do? I'm far more versed in Spanish and Persian, however.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Since you responded in German to a Norwegian film.
Auintr 4 years ago
I think that would be evidence that I don't know either.
Though I've access to those scriptures that I quoted in Norwegian also.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
hehe I guess we all have access to them, in a whole bunch of languages :)
Auintr 4 years ago
You sound in a way like an intelligent person.. How can you believe in the Mormon religion? Seer stones and magic thinking? And all that "endowment" nonsens that Jo learned from the masons? Were you born in this cult? I was 5 years when my mother became a member. The first time I discovered that something was wrong was when I saw the film that Wells made about the indian DNA. Don't you react to that either? You just swallow all the ad hoc theorys FARMS came up with?
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
I do not see the evidence as conclusive. Do you understand the limitations of the DNA evidence employed thus far? Do you understand the problem with using just two lines of descent to determine the whole of a person's ancestry? These are more than ad hod theories, these are serious deficiencies that are glossed over by the critics.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Are you a paid agent for the Mormon Church? We have guys like you here in Norway too. Joseph Smith jr. was a fraud. The Garden of Eden in Missouri...? Do you really believe that? And he was crowned as King of the earth in Nauvoo by the council of fifty... Sick. And Brigham Young and his Adam-God theory... And John Taylor who said that the negro was Satan's representative on earth... Get real and get a life!!
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
No. I'm not paid by the Church.
Eden was likely near Missouri, I don't know if it was in Missouri.
The placement of Joseph as "king" is a bit out of context.
Adam-god theory is neither what you portray it as nor even doctrinally established.
Neither is the Taylor comment in full context of our beliefs. We believe the Jews and Israel to be "God's chosen people" yet the worst acts committed by any Humans were done by that very people.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
When you finally are able to free yourself from this brainwash you will understand that there is no such thing on earth as a "chosen people". All people are equal, nobody is chosen. You should read the 5 books of Ove Von Spaeth about Moses. Very interesting reading. Gives you a broad understanding of the background of Islam, Jewism and Christianity.
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
Why wouldn't God have specific things set out for specific groups to do? Isn't He a God of order? Just because people are chosen for various roles doesn't make God a respecter of persons. In fact if God did not have chosen people, and an order set, it would be quite easy to demonstrate, through present inequalities, that God is (which he isn't) a respecter of persons.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Well, you just have to believe whatever you choose to believe. I just want to tell you that the feeling of freedom that came over me after I left the cult was enormous and gave me a happiness I have never felt the time I was a member. I understood for the first time what Jesus meant when he said that the truth shall make you free. And I wish that for you too. Ciao!
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
I do not doubt your feelings. I might mention the following, not at all to say that you are evil, nor that your feelings of freedom stem from the same source, nor that you are personally in any way close to an equivalent situation. Simply to demonstrate that the feeling of freedom is not exclusive to true liberation-please don't take this the wrong way-
"And Cain gloried in that which he had done, saying: <b>I am free</b>"
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Are you sure you feel ok, my dear? You should not say things like that to people even if you have a different opinion, you know. When you recover from Mormonism, remember what you said to an innocent person. I'm not angry, I'm just sorry that your understanding has been biased to such a degree. Please start reading the Bible instead of Joseph's novel. Maybe Jesus can help you to heal. You're welcome back here any time. Hugs, M.
MamaWortsh 4 years ago
I was not saying that you'd done any massive great sin of commission. I was trying to demonstrate that simply obtaining a feeling of great liberation is not inherently tied to the obtainment of truth.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Look into what Origen realized. He saw that for people to be born into this world in drastically different positions would either mean that their placement here was dependent on past positions in a previous existence OR you would have to conclude that God was an arbitrary being, and thusly completely an untenable figure with respect to claims of him being Just and Righteous and Omniscient.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
"...der Frucht trägt nach seiner Art, dessen Same in sich seinesgleichen trägt auf der Erde;"
HiveRadical 4 years ago
ich bin eine tyroler, und nicht eine abrahamer.
123webben 4 years ago