@xtremejohnny69 No. Quoting Timothy Sandefur: "The American Revolution was not an act of secession, but of revolution—hence the name. The distinction between revolution and secession is crucial. Revolution is the natural right to break the law and overthrow a government whenever a long train of abuses evinces a design to reduce the people under absolute despotism. Secession is the idea that a state has the legal authority unilaterally to leave the union. "
@xtremejohnny69 cont: "The leaders of 1776 never claimed their acts were legal; they said that they were choosing to break the law, and that their doing so was justified by a higher principle—namely, by the defense of the inalienable rights that belong to all individuals. It was the right to throw off a government which becomes destructive to the individual rights it is created to protect that they articulated in the Declaration."
@therealaj123 They left their home country though. Secession is the act of severing political ties to your country, which they did. You can't really call it a revolution because they never overthrew King George. Idk maybe we're just seeing the definition differently.
Check out my video. If you don't believe in secession, then you believe in slavery, for you are for enslaving people to a government that they want no part of:
I think that strength and protection that can best be found in a large nation. I was born & partially raised in the south,have lived in & went to high school & college in the west & north. I now reside in the north & have visited all,but 2 of the 50 states. I am an American. I love this country. All of it. We need to stay together,but with a weakened Federal Gov. Nullification? Yes. Change the Constitution? Yes. Secession? No. America is not its gov. Save the US by weakening Washington DC.
What ever happened to self-determination? If a group of people wants to govern themselves, do they not have the right to do it? If South Carolina or Vermont or Texas wants to secede and negate Washington's authority, do they not have that right? Isn't that what this nation was founded on?
@liddell001 Ilddel dumb fuck -- our country was founded on all men are created equal, free speech, free press, no cruel punishment, freedom of religion.
All of which the South shit on, pissed on, and vomited on. In fact, the Southern leaders bragged they were founded in the CSA on just the OPPOSITE -- that's what they said --"just the opposite". They were founded on Gods will for whites to enslave blacks, they said.
seceding from the blessed United States would be an act of jihadist terrorism and the United States would be forced to pre-emptively nuke whatever terrorist loving state that would ever do that.
A lot of people here think you're batshit crazy. I don't. I wish you only well, but I have to admit that I'm a lot culturally closer to Canadians than I am to southerners. The scale of magnitude of the US is very problematic. I'm as blue a northern Democrat as you are likely to find (thank you Chicago childhood). The idea of us parting ways nationally is entirely rational to me. No disrespect to Mr. Lincoln, but he was out of line.
@gunnarlarson you stupid fuck, learn some history. First off all fuck face, the South issued their Montgomery Demands -- you never heard of them? Oh shit, I wonder why not?
After they seceded, they issued five ultimatums. Know what they demanded? Demand One -- the US had to force slavery into the territories, even though the people there just voted 98% against it.
Did you know that retard? Fuck no. Learn real history dumb ass.
Our arguments - economic, social or political - are swiftly losing relevance because we will soon to be under a tyrannous oligarchy of Democrats, Republicans and those not identified with EITHER party - like George Soros. These elites will use the military of this and other nations to enforce their will upon the People and then we will discover all prior contentious "debates" were mere distractions to keep us from seeing the REAL agenda. But, of course, then it will be too late.
@BernieEOD Actually, a lightweight, ergonomic, accurate, and reliable modern semi-automatic rifle that sends lead projectiles as far as 500 yards away. I wasn't aware it only operated when pointing at people, because I've never done that and it's worked fine...
"History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme." -- Mark Twain
At the rate things are going, some variation of secession is inevitable - either a full blown separation or a strong reassertion of state sovereignty, and It won't be a pretty transition either way.
"World Ideas" : The Soviet Union broke up, the Czech and Slovak Republics are doing fine as independent states outside Czechoslovakia, microstates such as: San Marino, Monaco, Andorra, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, and the Vatican State are arguably the most economically successful countries in Europe. There are plenty of secession movements through the World; including in the UK, Belgium, Spain etc.
Countries such as Lithuania and Estonia have done quite well for themselves. As I pointed out before microstates tend to be better for business as they have to maintain economic policies (low tax, relatively low spending) to make them attractive to businesses. And there's a difference between a common social fabric, whose existence in the US is questionable, and a common country.
The US is a super power and our social fabric is based on consuming vast amounts of energy and resources while claiming we're the greatest nation ever. We worship myths of the "rugged individual" as we subsidize anyone who can afford a lobbyist. Conservatives say "love it or leave it" if any American dares to question our lifestyle and go nuts if a hippie burns our Flag. BUT now that Obama is President it's OMG! Let's secede. We hate American but damn if we're going to leave it. LOL
Do you ever notice how people who criticize the validity of secession usually just call it crazy and leave it at that? No concrete political arguments. No refutation of the breakup of the Soviet Union, the peaceful breakup of Czechoslovakia, and no refutation of the fact that some of the most economically successful states are also the some of the smallest. I haven't heard one argument against secession that didn't rely upon name calling or
The problem with the current GOP/Right Wing is they hold the flag in one hand and the bible in the other which leaves no free hand to grasped the truth of our common humanity and the modern world.
It would be nice to have a serious conservative view based on our current reality instead of the fantasy of a Utopian Small Government. But, if you are serious about secesion Jack, you better hit the CIA and US Military hard and fast or else your revolution will be dead in the water.
The "Right Wing" or GOP are irrelevant to the issue. It is not a partisan issue. Perhaps that is why you cannot grasp the basic premise put forth in his argument.
There are those who relish the idea that it become a divisive issue. It is the firm desire of the TPTB that it bear no fruit and people remain enslaved to the system.
I disagree AntiFed. Once a Republican is elected President again the Right will go back to the "love it or leave" "we are the greatest" attitude and talk of secession will fade.
BTW, I think I grasp SA basic premise. I just don't see it as a realistic answer to our problems.
Well, I don't think we are even on the same sheet of music. This is a revolution of IDEAS not party politics. Try to grasp that concept first and then get back to me.
It would probably be a mistake to secede. Hear me out.
If a secession happens, many people will move to these seceded states not out mindful concern for rights, but simply for politics. I think this because of the political atmosphere we have now. This can cause a problem as many of these folks will vote in the same incompetent imperialists who've taken over the Redumblican party, and the folks in the union will vote for the "liberal" Democraps and move towards flown blown socialist imperialism
This will cause a huge problem. Two imperialist nations cannot coexist on the same land. There is also the political climate, which is becoming increasingly more hostile. It wouldn't surprise me if soon we have counter left-right marches or even full blown riots. Not to mention people are bring loaded weapons to these protests.
I'm an old lefty and I love this land and its people Red or Blue. The last thing I want to see, we ALL want to see, is a Second Civil War over petty partisanship
Impractical from a geopolitical standpoint. We'd need 50 separate militaries and immigration policies to secure 50 sets of borders. And suddenly, Mexico will become a military threat to border states that can't mobilize a large enough force to prevent an invasion. Our southern neighbor will bring a comparatively huge amount of leverage to any negotiating table, and several states will end up being colonies and/or satellites of Mexico.
"The nation was clothed with ample powers to maintain its own supremacy and life forever -- with its foundation upon the White Race, Christianity, and a Republican form of government. If this nation does not like a planet, revolve in orbit around this "trinity," the nation's purpose for existence will have ceased to exist and though its Union is preserved, it will exist only as a Dummy." - Thomas Jefferson
But they keep chanting diversity is our strength? Oh really! Mult-cult is a disease, it hurts every race and no nation in the course of history has survived it but yet the dumb down American people keep drinking the kool-aid. And yes by all means scream and call me a racist becasue you can't come up with one good argument as to why mult-cult is so darn great!
Implicit association tests suggest that most people are racist, which in turn implies that it's an adaptive trait. He's just more self-aware, or less hypocritical, than you.
nope- it just gives you girls formerly known as robert as your coworker....
The debate on ideas is good to have varying viewpoints but when it comes down to getting things done, it does you no good. You need people who can / know how to work, something I rarely see from those left of center....
The USA is already ruled and broken down into 10 regions per the FED (privately owned banking cartel) since 1933! Yes - I know the FED came into being in 1913 - but it was not until 1933 that the country was divided into 10 regions and the land your home sat on began to be taxed - think you own it - stop paying taxes and see what happens!
Of course Secession is being openly talked about in this nation. I mean really the nation itself has been balkenized on purpose with mass immgration of the third world variety since 1965 including illegal aliens! This was NO accident either.
I don't see secession as being more or less the way to regain some semblance renewed state power in relation to federal power. The movement by some states to rectify the present imbalance of power through the 10th Amend seems a logical way to proceed without destroying the union. There are practical aspects to being a united states that should not be discarded as would be the case with secession. States should and must unite against the unjust exercise of authority by the fed gov.
Sure secession might break up the power of fascism our own government is pressing upon us, but once we get rid of that, don't you think other countries will come over here, like hyenas into a lion's den, now no longer tended by the mother?
South Carolina has lots of soldiers. The largest military training base in the world is in Columbia. We can take care of ourselves just fine. If yall wanna stay in the union thats fine. Yall do your thing and weel do ours.
You act as if your training base is self sufficient. I wonder if it didn't have the national financial backing if it'd even exist. e.g. Just because our navy is located on the coast, doesn't mean the coastal states can support them all by their lonesome, they are being supplied by the entire nation.
How many of those soldiers are actually South Carolinians? I know a lot of Californians who have been stationed in SC, for example. And do you think SC has enough of a tax base to support the kind of military that could defend its borders against Mexico, which could very well become an expansionist power over the next hundred years?
They don't have the votes for it anyway, and any undemocratic or unconstitutional process to secede will be met with the full military might of the USA.
Ask the Iraqis about what the US does to insurgents.
I was not refering to federal military. I was refering to our state military which is probably near 100% SC citizens. We already have large state military. We have fighter planes with big guns and bombs and all that good stuff.
I'd rather hear you talk about seceding than about "saving" the Republican party.
Ironically, you might get some agreement from the left on this, as at least one liberal youtube blogger would like to see the blue states and red states part ways.
Given all the debt, how beholden our politicians are to lobbies, Wall Street and the Fed--secession might be the only way to take a stand against it.
Federal goons would be on that state so fast though. All kinds of crazy shit would happen. But we're running out of options to get our gov't under control.
It's not insane, it's just a bad idea. For most of my life my fellow Southerners have been voting for "small govt." Republicans who have added massively to the width and breadth of the govt. Are you so childishly naive to believe that once you secede the very same thing won't happen again? You'll get a smaller country with the same large govt. problem because you're avoiding the real problems because they're ideologically inconvenient.
Secession sounds great to some, but most Southern States would automatically make the government "Christian" and the teaching of actually science would go out the window. SA, I agree with you 99% of the time, but as an atheist living in the South, I fear that secession would be even more hell for me and other non-believers without the protection from the First Amendment.
Like atheists really believe in "Science".... Maybe science fiction! Atheism and Liberalism both support the false doctrine of "Global Warming." Isn't it odd that most of the pioneers of science held a belief in God? You could always move out of the Christian South. BTW, I do not wish for a theocracy in the South either. You do realize that the vast majority of the Founders (who believed in limited govt), held Christian worldviews?
People like you are the reason I don't vote Republican even though I believe in limited government. You've perverted the idea. You don't want limited government, you want a theocracy.
Isn't it always interesting that Christians who serve in public office are always expected to not allow their religious beliefs to influence the decisions they make....While Atheists and other religions are not held to the same standard?......
That makes no sense. I vote against limited Republicans because social freedom is more important to me than economic freedom. It's not rocket science pal.
No, fact. I don't care what the majority of ANY party thinks, both parties are the problem & corrupt to the max. The crisis situation we are undeniably in isn't justified for "social justice" or other reasons. What ever you think you want, my friend, it ain't coming. We are on the verge of crisis we haven't known since Adolf did Poland. You are trying to divide the world & problem into Dem/Rep camps. Its not a two pile paradigm. I've never been a Rep, but want no part of today's Dems either.
Let's boil it down into simple terms: I won't vote for a party that wants to prohibit abortion in all cases. When the Republicans get off this social crusade they're on and focus soley on the economy, I'll gladly vote for them. And I'm not a Democrat. I usually vote 3rd party.
@badtown88, on abortion, if you don't recognize a fetus as a life then I understand your position. If you recognize a fetus as a life then you have to apply the same criminal punishment to abortionists as you do to murders. Myself, I'm not sure I recognize a fertilized egg as a life, I'm more likely to accept the presence of brainwaves as an indication of life since we use the same standards for end-of-life decisions for comatose patients.
I think it's a life after two months or so. After that it should be illegal. But the only basis people have to say that life begins at conception is the bible, and I'm a little uncomfortable with the government making laws based on a book written milleniums ago.
badtown88: You said: social freedom is more important than economic freedom... a socialist mantra..now Dem party rhetoric. Then you assume all who take issue with the comment are Republicans and rant against them in those terms. I have no prob with your abortion position.. or other of your "simple terms".. I am arguing against a position suggesting all and any can be tossed out to support some elusive concept of 'social freedom" ..in a two pile manner.
Interesting thought Magnuslan. For me I don't see a state run religion if secession happens. True followers of Christ would not force feed the gospel to anyone. There is no biblical mandate to Christianize human government.
However, if Christians principles like compassion, respect, mercy, and respect for life are a foundation for governing. Then these principles are forever. Humanistic thought can change on a whim--you'll never know what you'll get from election to election.
what does it matter what type of governments , whether they be federal governments or state governments, are running our lives: Both types of government have the power to stamped on personal liberties just as the american south used to do when they allowed slavery and passed jim crow laws that explicitly infringed upon the rights of blacks; We should specifically be advocating for a system of governance that protects individual liberty , not just adcovating for a smaller government.
Between "crazy" and "right" there's a whole giant wasteland called "just plain wrong". As someone who thinks being pro-secession is not crazy, but merely wrong, this vid had nothing to offer me.
Congratulations, you're not crazy. So what.
This guy seems much more interested in presenting a flattering picture of himself (cue footage of the "Avenger" at work with ruminations on the source of his name and the august pedigree of his ideas) than he is in presenting support for his ideas.
"A truly sovereign nation is a nation made up of truly sovereign individuals."
-Kevin Plank
Not only should the state be unlimited. individuals should have the same sovereign rights. Individuals lost their sovereignty when they lost their property rights.
If something you own can be taken away without due process it didn't really belong to you to begin with. OR if it can be taken away to be given to someone else so that the GOVERNMENT can get more tax revenue, then we have no sovereignty.
I don't see anything wrong with secession, but I just question the timing of this talk. If big government was really the problem, where was all this secession talk from 1989-2008??? Certainly not as widespread as it is now.
I understand, but I do question some of the people supporting it now, especially in Texas. They didn't have much of a problem with the federal government when their boy Bush was president and was trying to take over the world.
Do you wake up in a new world every day? none of this is new you just hearing it for the first time. we have protested what Bush did... Obama offers change for the worse... even worse than Bush... so the protests have picked up... if we liked Bush ... McCain would be president...
There is no way you can convince me that there was a big secession movement in Texas when Bush was president. It's simply not true. I'm sure there were some, but they weren't protesting at the fucking alamo. And there is no way Obama is worse than Bush. Fiscally yes, but on the whole, no.
I think it's simply a matter of reaching critical mass. As the government continues to become more oppresive it becomes more difficult for the populace to justify its continued existence in its present form.
Yeah you a real freedom fighter. Go ahead and keep stacking up ammo. One day shit will hit the fan and we'll see how well you fair against trained personnel.
Gee, I'm trained and I support secession. Lots of guys in my SF unit do as well. Going by my years in the military there are a whole heck of a lot of them that support it as well. It seems that you are worried about nothing.
I have some doubt you even HAVE a federal government, much less one in states. We have a Foreign Policy, that is not even our policy. ALL our foreign policy orbits Israel, and ISRAEL dictates all that policy. Like now: Should Obama appease Israel on Iran, OR outrgith slit our throats in open war with Iran on Israel's behalf. Point is: THANK GOD! you don't want states rights, because if you did? LOL, you won't get them. Sour Grapes always test best.
This all rests on the governors. None of them have any balls. They're trained to be obedient to the Feds and don't think they are allowed to stick up for their state or at least refuse to stand in the way of their pimp masters.
We need to try nullification. States need to assert their powers and do away with the unconstitutionality of federal government. If the conditions become unbearable, then secession may be necessary.
State governments need to grow a pair and declare most measures by the federal government null and void. Starting perhaps with Federal income taxes and legal tender laws.
I agree that the federal government is out of control and needs to be reigned in. Secession is not the answer, however, especially if you are one state standing alone. Let's not forget what Lincoln's response to secession was. I have no reason to believe our current-day government would approach the matter any differently, and they have much better weapons than Lincoln did.
I'm not against secession, but I don't think we have to resort to it yet. People are going to, and soon, realize that their "prosperity" they are searching for isn't going to come from the government. In the past 100 years the gov't was able to create artificial prosperity that people were complacent with...there just isn't enough room for that anymore. When the recession really hits us, and it is coming, people are going to truly be awakened to what the government has done to us.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The world is moving towards coalescence, not division. Secession just would not work in this day and age. SA, I understand you dream of being away from the Feds, but how would your state (south Carolina?) survive by themselves? The average S.Carolian is as rich as he/she is because they are part of the union. If S.Carolina was it's own country you would need your own currency. And with that responsibility, S.Carolina would always need to maintain a current account surplus.
And how would S.Carolinian maintain a current account surplus? All those intel/windows/macs the average S.Carolinian imports from the greater US would need to be offset with an equivalent export somewhere out of SC. What does SC produce that is of significant value? When I think of SC, I think of agriculture and not much else.
Is it possible for SC to secede and survive? Yes. But and very reduced level of consumption. Then many SCian would want ot simply immigrate to the greater US.
for that matter, what does ireland or iceland produce? there are plenty of small countries in the world that are not the colossal size of the us. many of them do quite well.
If that was the case the Soviet and it's block countries would still be together. To deal in absolutism, your assertion that the world is coalescence doesn't make any sense.
I'm not advocating secession, but SA and other like minded folks have grievances, and the Fed. gov. is not acquiescing to States rights and that only leads down one path it's not called Coalescence path.
no, imean that as a real question, I am a Canadian. You cannot deny military might is one of the things that has defined the US. What would happen with secession? Would there be some sort of understanding between the states ?
tattypatty---America's current military might is not sustainable anyway. Standing armies around the world are short lived. The break-up of the Soviet union was for the most part peaceful. I'm sure the 800 overseas bases would be mostly eliminated.
Great stuff, Southern Avenger! Your logic and observations are unassailable, as always.
For anybody who still doubts that the Founders intended the U.S. to be a VOLUNTARY compact of states, a book I heartily recommend is Tom Woods' "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History."
The Founding Fathers never advocated secession.
therealaj123 10 months ago
@therealaj123 Advocating and allowing for are two different things.
1Atomtan 8 months ago
@therealaj123 Didn't the founding fathers secede from Great Britan?
xtremejohnny69 7 months ago
@xtremejohnny69 No. Quoting Timothy Sandefur: "The American Revolution was not an act of secession, but of revolution—hence the name. The distinction between revolution and secession is crucial. Revolution is the natural right to break the law and overthrow a government whenever a long train of abuses evinces a design to reduce the people under absolute despotism. Secession is the idea that a state has the legal authority unilaterally to leave the union. "
therealaj123 6 months ago
@xtremejohnny69 cont: "The leaders of 1776 never claimed their acts were legal; they said that they were choosing to break the law, and that their doing so was justified by a higher principle—namely, by the defense of the inalienable rights that belong to all individuals. It was the right to throw off a government which becomes destructive to the individual rights it is created to protect that they articulated in the Declaration."
therealaj123 6 months ago
@therealaj123 They left their home country though. Secession is the act of severing political ties to your country, which they did. You can't really call it a revolution because they never overthrew King George. Idk maybe we're just seeing the definition differently.
xtremejohnny69 6 months ago
Thanks Jack...nailed it!
NCIcaucus 11 months ago
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Check out my video. If you don't believe in secession, then you believe in slavery, for you are for enslaving people to a government that they want no part of:
youtube.com/watch?v=oiH_XnqnyHU
ErikLiberty 1 year ago
"..50 individual countries? talk about a screwed up idea."
Well now we know how they feel about the constitution....
FFarmerCharlie 1 year ago
I think that strength and protection that can best be found in a large nation. I was born & partially raised in the south,have lived in & went to high school & college in the west & north. I now reside in the north & have visited all,but 2 of the 50 states. I am an American. I love this country. All of it. We need to stay together,but with a weakened Federal Gov. Nullification? Yes. Change the Constitution? Yes. Secession? No. America is not its gov. Save the US by weakening Washington DC.
sleedolfine15 1 year ago
THE ONLY ANSWER IS TO SECEDE!!!
IslandersMets10 1 year ago 2
What ever happened to self-determination? If a group of people wants to govern themselves, do they not have the right to do it? If South Carolina or Vermont or Texas wants to secede and negate Washington's authority, do they not have that right? Isn't that what this nation was founded on?
liddell001 1 year ago
@liddell001 Ilddel dumb fuck -- our country was founded on all men are created equal, free speech, free press, no cruel punishment, freedom of religion.
All of which the South shit on, pissed on, and vomited on. In fact, the Southern leaders bragged they were founded in the CSA on just the OPPOSITE -- that's what they said --"just the opposite". They were founded on Gods will for whites to enslave blacks, they said.
Got that retard?
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
seceding from the blessed United States would be an act of jihadist terrorism and the United States would be forced to pre-emptively nuke whatever terrorist loving state that would ever do that.
TheHomelandDefender 1 year ago
A lot of people here think you're batshit crazy. I don't. I wish you only well, but I have to admit that I'm a lot culturally closer to Canadians than I am to southerners. The scale of magnitude of the US is very problematic. I'm as blue a northern Democrat as you are likely to find (thank you Chicago childhood). The idea of us parting ways nationally is entirely rational to me. No disrespect to Mr. Lincoln, but he was out of line.
gunnarlarson 2 years ago
@gunnarlarson you stupid fuck, learn some history. First off all fuck face, the South issued their Montgomery Demands -- you never heard of them? Oh shit, I wonder why not?
After they seceded, they issued five ultimatums. Know what they demanded? Demand One -- the US had to force slavery into the territories, even though the people there just voted 98% against it.
Did you know that retard? Fuck no. Learn real history dumb ass.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Sick puppy!
activistausa 2 years ago
Our arguments - economic, social or political - are swiftly losing relevance because we will soon to be under a tyrannous oligarchy of Democrats, Republicans and those not identified with EITHER party - like George Soros. These elites will use the military of this and other nations to enforce their will upon the People and then we will discover all prior contentious "debates" were mere distractions to keep us from seeing the REAL agenda. But, of course, then it will be too late.
Ghostchaser43 2 years ago 5
Speak for yourself, I have an AR-15. :)
apickle 2 years ago 7
Well, at 68 and decidedly overweight, about all I have is a frying pan. However, my cooking could be considered a WMD! :D
Ghostchaser43 2 years ago 2
@apickle A worthless poodle shooter only good for killing unarmed people.
Colonel Jeff Cooper
BernieEOD 1 year ago
@BernieEOD Actually, a lightweight, ergonomic, accurate, and reliable modern semi-automatic rifle that sends lead projectiles as far as 500 yards away. I wasn't aware it only operated when pointing at people, because I've never done that and it's worked fine...
apickle 1 year ago
"History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme." -- Mark Twain
At the rate things are going, some variation of secession is inevitable - either a full blown separation or a strong reassertion of state sovereignty, and It won't be a pretty transition either way.
AntiFed1791 2 years ago
"World Ideas" : The Soviet Union broke up, the Czech and Slovak Republics are doing fine as independent states outside Czechoslovakia, microstates such as: San Marino, Monaco, Andorra, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, and the Vatican State are arguably the most economically successful countries in Europe. There are plenty of secession movements through the World; including in the UK, Belgium, Spain etc.
murphycline 2 years ago 2
Sure, if our economy and social fabric falls apart like it did in the USSR, it could happen here too. But I doubt it would be a good for business.
eelzen 2 years ago
Countries such as Lithuania and Estonia have done quite well for themselves. As I pointed out before microstates tend to be better for business as they have to maintain economic policies (low tax, relatively low spending) to make them attractive to businesses. And there's a difference between a common social fabric, whose existence in the US is questionable, and a common country.
murphycline 2 years ago
The US is a super power and our social fabric is based on consuming vast amounts of energy and resources while claiming we're the greatest nation ever. We worship myths of the "rugged individual" as we subsidize anyone who can afford a lobbyist. Conservatives say "love it or leave it" if any American dares to question our lifestyle and go nuts if a hippie burns our Flag. BUT now that Obama is President it's OMG! Let's secede. We hate American but damn if we're going to leave it. LOL
eelzen 2 years ago
Do you ever notice how people who criticize the validity of secession usually just call it crazy and leave it at that? No concrete political arguments. No refutation of the breakup of the Soviet Union, the peaceful breakup of Czechoslovakia, and no refutation of the fact that some of the most economically successful states are also the some of the smallest. I haven't heard one argument against secession that didn't rely upon name calling or
murphycline 2 years ago 2
Well said my friend.
CapnConfederacy 2 years ago
The problem with the current GOP/Right Wing is they hold the flag in one hand and the bible in the other which leaves no free hand to grasped the truth of our common humanity and the modern world.
It would be nice to have a serious conservative view based on our current reality instead of the fantasy of a Utopian Small Government. But, if you are serious about secesion Jack, you better hit the CIA and US Military hard and fast or else your revolution will be dead in the water.
eelzen 2 years ago
ROFL - we in the south hold the bible in one hand and a firearm in the other. There is a difference.
GlobalMinority 2 years ago
true but they never actually read the Bible, it's just a prop.
CarryANationIII 2 years ago
Oh right. You threw away the flag and picked up a gun. How could I have forgotten.
eelzen 2 years ago
Yeah...*sigh*
Typical logical fallacy of generalization by virtue of geography.
i.e. All people living south of some imaginary line are bible thumping, gun toting morons.
AntiFed1791 2 years ago
The "Right Wing" or GOP are irrelevant to the issue. It is not a partisan issue. Perhaps that is why you cannot grasp the basic premise put forth in his argument.
There are those who relish the idea that it become a divisive issue. It is the firm desire of the TPTB that it bear no fruit and people remain enslaved to the system.
AntiFed1791 2 years ago
I disagree AntiFed. Once a Republican is elected President again the Right will go back to the "love it or leave" "we are the greatest" attitude and talk of secession will fade.
BTW, I think I grasp SA basic premise. I just don't see it as a realistic answer to our problems.
eelzen 2 years ago
Well, I don't think we are even on the same sheet of music. This is a revolution of IDEAS not party politics. Try to grasp that concept first and then get back to me.
AntiFed1791 2 years ago
Grasp the concept of 'condescending douche bag' and get back to me....or not.
eelzen 2 years ago
erm... LOL!
AntiFed1791 2 years ago
Comment removed
Nawledge1 2 years ago
It would probably be a mistake to secede. Hear me out.
If a secession happens, many people will move to these seceded states not out mindful concern for rights, but simply for politics. I think this because of the political atmosphere we have now. This can cause a problem as many of these folks will vote in the same incompetent imperialists who've taken over the Redumblican party, and the folks in the union will vote for the "liberal" Democraps and move towards flown blown socialist imperialism
Nawledge1 2 years ago
[cont]
This will cause a huge problem. Two imperialist nations cannot coexist on the same land. There is also the political climate, which is becoming increasingly more hostile. It wouldn't surprise me if soon we have counter left-right marches or even full blown riots. Not to mention people are bring loaded weapons to these protests.
I'm an old lefty and I love this land and its people Red or Blue. The last thing I want to see, we ALL want to see, is a Second Civil War over petty partisanship
Nawledge1 2 years ago
Impractical from a geopolitical standpoint. We'd need 50 separate militaries and immigration policies to secure 50 sets of borders. And suddenly, Mexico will become a military threat to border states that can't mobilize a large enough force to prevent an invasion. Our southern neighbor will bring a comparatively huge amount of leverage to any negotiating table, and several states will end up being colonies and/or satellites of Mexico.
laviciousness 2 years ago
Another great piece Mr. Hunter!
803honda 2 years ago
"The nation was clothed with ample powers to maintain its own supremacy and life forever -- with its foundation upon the White Race, Christianity, and a Republican form of government. If this nation does not like a planet, revolve in orbit around this "trinity," the nation's purpose for existence will have ceased to exist and though its Union is preserved, it will exist only as a Dummy." - Thomas Jefferson
AryanNationsRevival 2 years ago
But they keep chanting diversity is our strength? Oh really! Mult-cult is a disease, it hurts every race and no nation in the course of history has survived it but yet the dumb down American people keep drinking the kool-aid. And yes by all means scream and call me a racist becasue you can't come up with one good argument as to why mult-cult is so darn great!
GlobalMinority 2 years ago
But you ARE a racist. You basically admitted it.
badtown88 2 years ago
You say that like it's a bad thing. ;-)
Implicit association tests suggest that most people are racist, which in turn implies that it's an adaptive trait. He's just more self-aware, or less hypocritical, than you.
2minuteh8 2 years ago
If you are defining racism as holding a persons ability higher than their skin color, then I am a racist.
Diversity is not strength in and of itself. Ability is strength. If diversity increases ability, then it is good. The question is, does it?
shoelessjohn 2 years ago 4
nope- it just gives you girls formerly known as robert as your coworker....
The debate on ideas is good to have varying viewpoints but when it comes down to getting things done, it does you no good. You need people who can / know how to work, something I rarely see from those left of center....
RansackTheElder68 2 years ago
The USA is already ruled and broken down into 10 regions per the FED (privately owned banking cartel) since 1933! Yes - I know the FED came into being in 1913 - but it was not until 1933 that the country was divided into 10 regions and the land your home sat on began to be taxed - think you own it - stop paying taxes and see what happens!
GlobalMinority 2 years ago
Of course Secession is being openly talked about in this nation. I mean really the nation itself has been balkenized on purpose with mass immgration of the third world variety since 1965 including illegal aliens! This was NO accident either.
GlobalMinority 2 years ago 3
I don't see secession as being more or less the way to regain some semblance renewed state power in relation to federal power. The movement by some states to rectify the present imbalance of power through the 10th Amend seems a logical way to proceed without destroying the union. There are practical aspects to being a united states that should not be discarded as would be the case with secession. States should and must unite against the unjust exercise of authority by the fed gov.
bbburton 2 years ago
Sure secession might break up the power of fascism our own government is pressing upon us, but once we get rid of that, don't you think other countries will come over here, like hyenas into a lion's den, now no longer tended by the mother?
rockhardxrocker 2 years ago
South Carolina has lots of soldiers. The largest military training base in the world is in Columbia. We can take care of ourselves just fine. If yall wanna stay in the union thats fine. Yall do your thing and weel do ours.
803honda 2 years ago
You act as if your training base is self sufficient. I wonder if it didn't have the national financial backing if it'd even exist. e.g. Just because our navy is located on the coast, doesn't mean the coastal states can support them all by their lonesome, they are being supplied by the entire nation.
rockhardxrocker 2 years ago
Fort Jackson is not our base. It belongs to the federals. However the bases and troops and equiptment we do own and supply are doin just fine.
803honda 2 years ago
How many of those soldiers are actually South Carolinians? I know a lot of Californians who have been stationed in SC, for example. And do you think SC has enough of a tax base to support the kind of military that could defend its borders against Mexico, which could very well become an expansionist power over the next hundred years?
laviciousness 2 years ago
They don't have the votes for it anyway, and any undemocratic or unconstitutional process to secede will be met with the full military might of the USA.
Ask the Iraqis about what the US does to insurgents.
CarryANationIII 2 years ago
I was not refering to federal military. I was refering to our state military which is probably near 100% SC citizens. We already have large state military. We have fighter planes with big guns and bombs and all that good stuff.
803honda 2 years ago
If SC were to secede, the feds would have the state conquered and every secessionist village evacuated into concentration camps within 2 weeks.
CarryANationIII 2 years ago
Gotta link? I'd like to learn more about this.
laviciousness 2 years ago
scguard . com
803honda 2 years ago
I'd rather hear you talk about seceding than about "saving" the Republican party.
Ironically, you might get some agreement from the left on this, as at least one liberal youtube blogger would like to see the blue states and red states part ways.
RealArcalian 2 years ago 3
Given all the debt, how beholden our politicians are to lobbies, Wall Street and the Fed--secession might be the only way to take a stand against it.
Federal goons would be on that state so fast though. All kinds of crazy shit would happen. But we're running out of options to get our gov't under control.
Amy31415 2 years ago 3
It's not insane, it's just a bad idea. For most of my life my fellow Southerners have been voting for "small govt." Republicans who have added massively to the width and breadth of the govt. Are you so childishly naive to believe that once you secede the very same thing won't happen again? You'll get a smaller country with the same large govt. problem because you're avoiding the real problems because they're ideologically inconvenient.
granulorhoek 2 years ago
Secession sounds great to some, but most Southern States would automatically make the government "Christian" and the teaching of actually science would go out the window. SA, I agree with you 99% of the time, but as an atheist living in the South, I fear that secession would be even more hell for me and other non-believers without the protection from the First Amendment.
MagnusIan 2 years ago
Excellent point.
badtown88 2 years ago
Like atheists really believe in "Science".... Maybe science fiction! Atheism and Liberalism both support the false doctrine of "Global Warming." Isn't it odd that most of the pioneers of science held a belief in God? You could always move out of the Christian South. BTW, I do not wish for a theocracy in the South either. You do realize that the vast majority of the Founders (who believed in limited govt), held Christian worldviews?
AmericanAvenger1 2 years ago
People like you are the reason I don't vote Republican even though I believe in limited government. You've perverted the idea. You don't want limited government, you want a theocracy.
badtown88 2 years ago
Isn't it always interesting that Christians who serve in public office are always expected to not allow their religious beliefs to influence the decisions they make....While Atheists and other religions are not held to the same standard?......
AmericanAvenger1 2 years ago
yeh ... that makes sense. Vote against limited government because you don't like the dentist down the street. Brilliant.
stegokitty 2 years ago
That makes no sense. I vote against limited Republicans because social freedom is more important to me than economic freedom. It's not rocket science pal.
badtown88 2 years ago
There can be no social freedom without economic freedom.
rexoid 2 years ago 2
Debatable. But tell me, do you believe that the majority of the Republican Party is in favor of social freedom?
badtown88 2 years ago
No, fact. I don't care what the majority of ANY party thinks, both parties are the problem & corrupt to the max. The crisis situation we are undeniably in isn't justified for "social justice" or other reasons. What ever you think you want, my friend, it ain't coming. We are on the verge of crisis we haven't known since Adolf did Poland. You are trying to divide the world & problem into Dem/Rep camps. Its not a two pile paradigm. I've never been a Rep, but want no part of today's Dems either.
rexoid 2 years ago 2
Let's boil it down into simple terms: I won't vote for a party that wants to prohibit abortion in all cases. When the Republicans get off this social crusade they're on and focus soley on the economy, I'll gladly vote for them. And I'm not a Democrat. I usually vote 3rd party.
badtown88 2 years ago
@badtown88, on abortion, if you don't recognize a fetus as a life then I understand your position. If you recognize a fetus as a life then you have to apply the same criminal punishment to abortionists as you do to murders. Myself, I'm not sure I recognize a fertilized egg as a life, I'm more likely to accept the presence of brainwaves as an indication of life since we use the same standards for end-of-life decisions for comatose patients.
Sorry this is off topic. Nice Video SA!
HiFiSmith 2 years ago
I think it's a life after two months or so. After that it should be illegal. But the only basis people have to say that life begins at conception is the bible, and I'm a little uncomfortable with the government making laws based on a book written milleniums ago.
Holy fuck how did I get on this topic?
badtown88 2 years ago
There is no line between social freedom and economic freedom. They are one and the same.
Quit reading that socialist tripe.
shoelessjohn 2 years ago 3
What the fuck did I say that was socialist???
badtown88 2 years ago
badtown88: You said: social freedom is more important than economic freedom... a socialist mantra..now Dem party rhetoric. Then you assume all who take issue with the comment are Republicans and rant against them in those terms. I have no prob with your abortion position.. or other of your "simple terms".. I am arguing against a position suggesting all and any can be tossed out to support some elusive concept of 'social freedom" ..in a two pile manner.
rexoid 2 years ago 2
Interesting thought Magnuslan. For me I don't see a state run religion if secession happens. True followers of Christ would not force feed the gospel to anyone. There is no biblical mandate to Christianize human government.
However, if Christians principles like compassion, respect, mercy, and respect for life are a foundation for governing. Then these principles are forever. Humanistic thought can change on a whim--you'll never know what you'll get from election to election.
nomadak47 2 years ago
what does it matter what type of governments , whether they be federal governments or state governments, are running our lives: Both types of government have the power to stamped on personal liberties just as the american south used to do when they allowed slavery and passed jim crow laws that explicitly infringed upon the rights of blacks; We should specifically be advocating for a system of governance that protects individual liberty , not just adcovating for a smaller government.
Pentazoid111 2 years ago 2
smaller governments leave smaller footprints when they trample you.
cyberpsygen7 2 years ago 2
Between "crazy" and "right" there's a whole giant wasteland called "just plain wrong". As someone who thinks being pro-secession is not crazy, but merely wrong, this vid had nothing to offer me.
Congratulations, you're not crazy. So what.
This guy seems much more interested in presenting a flattering picture of himself (cue footage of the "Avenger" at work with ruminations on the source of his name and the august pedigree of his ideas) than he is in presenting support for his ideas.
Isncee 2 years ago
"A truly sovereign nation is a nation made up of truly sovereign individuals."
-Kevin Plank
Not only should the state be unlimited. individuals should have the same sovereign rights. Individuals lost their sovereignty when they lost their property rights.
If something you own can be taken away without due process it didn't really belong to you to begin with. OR if it can be taken away to be given to someone else so that the GOVERNMENT can get more tax revenue, then we have no sovereignty.
conspiracy777 2 years ago
Freedom is not having to bow to the will of a majority. That is what truly being free is. Unlimited secession gives us just that.
Luigi84289 2 years ago 7
The only way you will ever be free is to have your government close to you. Secession now.
Localism rules
btigtime2 2 years ago
I don't see anything wrong with secession, but I just question the timing of this talk. If big government was really the problem, where was all this secession talk from 1989-2008??? Certainly not as widespread as it is now.
badtown88 2 years ago
I was certainly calling for it. Check Jack's other offerings. He was calling for it as well.
steve0281 2 years ago
it was going on then. It has been getting more supporters and gaining momentum as The state has been radically growing larger.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
I understand, but I do question some of the people supporting it now, especially in Texas. They didn't have much of a problem with the federal government when their boy Bush was president and was trying to take over the world.
badtown88 2 years ago
Do you wake up in a new world every day? none of this is new you just hearing it for the first time. we have protested what Bush did... Obama offers change for the worse... even worse than Bush... so the protests have picked up... if we liked Bush ... McCain would be president...
NMFarrier 2 years ago
There is no way you can convince me that there was a big secession movement in Texas when Bush was president. It's simply not true. I'm sure there were some, but they weren't protesting at the fucking alamo. And there is no way Obama is worse than Bush. Fiscally yes, but on the whole, no.
badtown88 2 years ago
I think it's simply a matter of reaching critical mass. As the government continues to become more oppresive it becomes more difficult for the populace to justify its continued existence in its present form.
RCinPAWA 2 years ago
Yeah you a real freedom fighter. Go ahead and keep stacking up ammo. One day shit will hit the fan and we'll see how well you fair against trained personnel.
Churchx77 2 years ago
Gee, I'm trained and I support secession. Lots of guys in my SF unit do as well. Going by my years in the military there are a whole heck of a lot of them that support it as well. It seems that you are worried about nothing.
steve0281 2 years ago
Why not move to Iraq then.
Churchx77 2 years ago
I have some doubt you even HAVE a federal government, much less one in states. We have a Foreign Policy, that is not even our policy. ALL our foreign policy orbits Israel, and ISRAEL dictates all that policy. Like now: Should Obama appease Israel on Iran, OR outrgith slit our throats in open war with Iran on Israel's behalf. Point is: THANK GOD! you don't want states rights, because if you did? LOL, you won't get them. Sour Grapes always test best.
punished4honesty 2 years ago
This all rests on the governors. None of them have any balls. They're trained to be obedient to the Feds and don't think they are allowed to stick up for their state or at least refuse to stand in the way of their pimp masters.
ZombieX13 2 years ago 3
We need to try nullification. States need to assert their powers and do away with the unconstitutionality of federal government. If the conditions become unbearable, then secession may be necessary.
State governments need to grow a pair and declare most measures by the federal government null and void. Starting perhaps with Federal income taxes and legal tender laws.
Elasaltaculos 2 years ago
Hey, Switzerland, small full of guns and safe as all heck.
chewbaca1989 2 years ago
Comment removed
SpideyNinety08 2 years ago
I agree that the federal government is out of control and needs to be reigned in. Secession is not the answer, however, especially if you are one state standing alone. Let's not forget what Lincoln's response to secession was. I have no reason to believe our current-day government would approach the matter any differently, and they have much better weapons than Lincoln did.
pfarabee 2 years ago
I'm not against secession, but I don't think we have to resort to it yet. People are going to, and soon, realize that their "prosperity" they are searching for isn't going to come from the government. In the past 100 years the gov't was able to create artificial prosperity that people were complacent with...there just isn't enough room for that anymore. When the recession really hits us, and it is coming, people are going to truly be awakened to what the government has done to us.
SpideyNinety08 2 years ago
Good Vid!
As a decal, on my , rifle case says:
Secession! It's the right thing, to do!
DEO VINDICE!
rebelstang 2 years ago
On point again Southern Avenger. I agree with the fellow that said SA for president.
BradNC11175 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The world is moving towards coalescence, not division. Secession just would not work in this day and age. SA, I understand you dream of being away from the Feds, but how would your state (south Carolina?) survive by themselves? The average S.Carolian is as rich as he/she is because they are part of the union. If S.Carolina was it's own country you would need your own currency. And with that responsibility, S.Carolina would always need to maintain a current account surplus.
ratab1n 2 years ago
And how would S.Carolinian maintain a current account surplus? All those intel/windows/macs the average S.Carolinian imports from the greater US would need to be offset with an equivalent export somewhere out of SC. What does SC produce that is of significant value? When I think of SC, I think of agriculture and not much else.
Is it possible for SC to secede and survive? Yes. But and very reduced level of consumption. Then many SCian would want ot simply immigrate to the greater US.
ratab1n 2 years ago
for that matter, what does ireland or iceland produce? there are plenty of small countries in the world that are not the colossal size of the us. many of them do quite well.
jackspratt409 2 years ago 3
Iceland has natural geothermal/hydroelectric resources. Not to forget that it has very productive fishing waters.
And anyways, Iceland suffered major economic problems in 2008-2009 and many icelanders are strongly considering on joining the EU. So, there you go.
ratab1n 2 years ago
ratab1n --- your tone sounds like one cannot exist without big brother showing us the way. This is the whole point of secession--self determination.
nomadak47 2 years ago
If that was the case the Soviet and it's block countries would still be together. To deal in absolutism, your assertion that the world is coalescence doesn't make any sense.
I'm not advocating secession, but SA and other like minded folks have grievances, and the Fed. gov. is not acquiescing to States rights and that only leads down one path it's not called Coalescence path.
chewbaca1989 2 years ago
no friend, it's not "grievances". it's our rights as a people givin to us by our Forefathers.
statesrights01 2 years ago 4
I'll agree spirit of that, noble brilliant men that saw far off into the future.
chewbaca1989 2 years ago
Correction, thanks staterights01, they have rights.
chewbaca1989 2 years ago
SA for President!
wintersdemise 2 years ago 3
Sorry to sound dumb, but how would stuff like defence etc. work under a bunch of split-up colonies?
tattypatty 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
How did it work for the original 13?
hardmod777 2 years ago 2
each would provide own defense. they wouldn't get attacked cause they wouldn't be doing a lot of crap that pissed people off.
libertyplayground 2 years ago 2
I think it would work out a little bit better than defense under NATO...
PistoleroJesse 2 years ago 2
tattypatty----A high ranking Japanese officer made this statement "there would be a rifle/gun behind every blade of grass if we invade the U.S.
nomadak47 2 years ago 3
no, imean that as a real question, I am a Canadian. You cannot deny military might is one of the things that has defined the US. What would happen with secession? Would there be some sort of understanding between the states ?
tattypatty 2 years ago
tattypatty---America's current military might is not sustainable anyway. Standing armies around the world are short lived. The break-up of the Soviet union was for the most part peaceful. I'm sure the 800 overseas bases would be mostly eliminated.
nomadak47 2 years ago
"Too big to fail" should read "too big does fail"
judoskeleton 2 years ago 5
Thanks for the great video!
ALittleBitPregnant 2 years ago 2
Secession will come but only by the hands of
LaRaza & the Aztlan movement.
Wasp16mm 2 years ago 2
Great stuff, Southern Avenger! Your logic and observations are unassailable, as always.
For anybody who still doubts that the Founders intended the U.S. to be a VOLUNTARY compact of states, a book I heartily recommend is Tom Woods' "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History."
RationalDischarge 2 years ago 4