I think it makes more sense to think of rights as the equivalent of associated duties. For instance, the Right To Life for an individual entails the duty of others not to take that individual's life, i.e. through murder. I can't think of a single meaningful right that cannot be associated with some set of duties.
... In this sense, people who claim the right to health care, claim that "others" have the duty to provide them with said health care.
If come across a dying person in need of first aid, I personally think it is my moral obligation/duty to provide that person with first aid, especially if I happen to be a doctor. So in in this case, I would argue that the dying person has a "right" to first aid (health care.)
@qonf ... ... However, If a random stranger walks into my house during my dinner and demands that i provide/pay to have that persons wisdom teeth pulled out. I would argue that i have no duty to fulfil that request, and thus said person has no Right to health care in this case.
... ... ... If you add the myriad of complex disease/situations, with its large range of cost of treatment, immediacy, etc... I don't think it is as simple as that one does not have a right to health care.
@qonf I think this falls more into a mutual benefit situation. There are plenty of situations where we give to others. I am a volunteer fire fighter. I don't expect a check in the mail from the people I help. No one has compelled the members to join. There's no infringement on my rights. I freely give my time. The local hospital here is a catholic hospital, and they freely take patients without insurance and "soft bill" (Don't care if you actually pay) They take donations to cover the costs.
@NewYorkSentinel Which plays significantly into the aspect of how these rights/duties are enforced, if at all.
Nonetheless, I still think its more intellectually honest to recognize that meaningful rights corresponds to duties by others, and thus needs to be justified. You can't just claim rights, and expect everyone to accept them without question, because the rights you claim are synonymous to duties to everyone else. This goes for life and property etc.., as well as health care.
@qonf As for a doctor passing by, the duty to help would not be because of the other person had a right to first aid, but because of the duties inherent in becoming a doctor. As for the lay person, regardless of laws on the books, I don't see a natural duty to stop and help assuming you where not the one who put them in the situation. There is no duty to do good, it is human nature to do good or feel empathy for those in bad situations. Essentially, we would like someone to stop if it were us.
@NewYorkSentinel I see rights and duties as two sides of the same coin, the difference is semantics. There is a difference between legal rights and duties and moral rights and duties though.
@qonf There are duties however, when it comes to rights in that you have a duty not to take property, or to take life, or to restrict someones freedom.
You're my hero! Looks you might be taking a lot of heat from those Health-Care-is-a-Right crowd lol.
kokocipher 2 months ago
I think it makes more sense to think of rights as the equivalent of associated duties. For instance, the Right To Life for an individual entails the duty of others not to take that individual's life, i.e. through murder. I can't think of a single meaningful right that cannot be associated with some set of duties.
qonf 3 months ago
... In this sense, people who claim the right to health care, claim that "others" have the duty to provide them with said health care.
If come across a dying person in need of first aid, I personally think it is my moral obligation/duty to provide that person with first aid, especially if I happen to be a doctor. So in in this case, I would argue that the dying person has a "right" to first aid (health care.)
qonf 3 months ago
@qonf ... ... However, If a random stranger walks into my house during my dinner and demands that i provide/pay to have that persons wisdom teeth pulled out. I would argue that i have no duty to fulfil that request, and thus said person has no Right to health care in this case.
qonf 3 months ago
... ... ... If you add the myriad of complex disease/situations, with its large range of cost of treatment, immediacy, etc... I don't think it is as simple as that one does not have a right to health care.
qonf 3 months ago
@qonf I think this falls more into a mutual benefit situation. There are plenty of situations where we give to others. I am a volunteer fire fighter. I don't expect a check in the mail from the people I help. No one has compelled the members to join. There's no infringement on my rights. I freely give my time. The local hospital here is a catholic hospital, and they freely take patients without insurance and "soft bill" (Don't care if you actually pay) They take donations to cover the costs.
NewYorkSentinel 3 months ago
@NewYorkSentinel Which plays significantly into the aspect of how these rights/duties are enforced, if at all.
Nonetheless, I still think its more intellectually honest to recognize that meaningful rights corresponds to duties by others, and thus needs to be justified. You can't just claim rights, and expect everyone to accept them without question, because the rights you claim are synonymous to duties to everyone else. This goes for life and property etc.., as well as health care.
qonf 3 months ago
@qonf As for a doctor passing by, the duty to help would not be because of the other person had a right to first aid, but because of the duties inherent in becoming a doctor. As for the lay person, regardless of laws on the books, I don't see a natural duty to stop and help assuming you where not the one who put them in the situation. There is no duty to do good, it is human nature to do good or feel empathy for those in bad situations. Essentially, we would like someone to stop if it were us.
NewYorkSentinel 3 months ago
@NewYorkSentinel I see rights and duties as two sides of the same coin, the difference is semantics. There is a difference between legal rights and duties and moral rights and duties though.
qonf 3 months ago
@qonf There are duties however, when it comes to rights in that you have a duty not to take property, or to take life, or to restrict someones freedom.
NewYorkSentinel 3 months ago