All Australians benefit from Aboriginal disposession, we are rich from mining, all land had defined boundarys for 50,000 years, laws from the other side of the world doesnt change the fact its the Aboriginals rightful inheritence
In Australia any Aboriginal side of the story must have physical documents to support it, once you gain an overview history is not good, anyway I want to see the physical documents that make forced settlement in Australia legal?
....similar to if you verbally tell a story, over time it changes. What may have been a minor event involving 5 people, lasting 30 minutes, 100 years later, can be a major event involving 50 lasting half the day. As time goes on, the way a story is told changes, people add to it, and in time, it's a very different story.
When I studied history of this land, taught by white men, I began to accept my responsibility for inheriting what my white forebears did to indigenous families with darker skin than our own; and in the long run, I also got taught by indigenous families, to remember that my white ancestors intermarried with black ancestors, and so it became the story, that by owning and accepting responsibility for colonists among my ancestry, I found my way into becoming reclaimed by my indigenous ancestry.
what i remember about colonial past is that they were damn good at it. however i refuse to take responsibility for shit my ancestors did before i was born. im fucking swedish, do you have any idea how much shit we pulled per capita!? id spen the rest of my life saying sorry. what we SHOULD remember about colonialism is: dont. fucking. do it. again.
so its not something you appologize for but rather something you keep in mind when you meet the na'vi
@random0moniker I would pose to you the question of what they were they good at in the colonial past? Is this a romantic vision of migration and settlement within the context of a centralized power structure seeking resources to maintain its own cultural validity within a competitive region of shifting power dynamics? And if you claim to be Swedish aren't you taking responsibility for your ancestry by aligning yourself with spatial and cultural heritage definitions of societal values?
we were more raidingy than colonialismy but my predecessors were very good at killing people and making others lives miserable.
but why the fuck should i need to appologie for something that i couldent affect? our current culture and those physically located within our borders do not endorse any of that shit.
how about this for how we treated the aboriginals... why is it, that this aboriginal past is being pushed on me... however our historians must keep in mind that morals and values today are different, we have aboriginals who judge the past with morals of today, thus things aren't moving... Also, the settlers came in and killed the aboriginals and we are blamed, jet we were the convicts... so really, aboriginals and convicts were not really interacting in the negative ways perceived
@HaydenHatTrick also, the big bad things that happened was done by how few people compared to the entire population, usually someone with power just writing with a pen, not everyone was on the same side...
@HatTrick And those people with "power" and the "pens" are still committing crimes against the Originee people.Government bureaucrats are using those pens to sign off on destruction of our heritage and burial sites under the illegally assumed authority of the "Ministers",Government and the State without consultation or approval of the Originee Traditional Owner people.You are right that a "few" people did, and are still doing, the "big bad things" to our people,and they are called "Governments".
@HaydenHatTrick I wish it were that way in America. as it is now, the vocal minority only hates politicians that aren't brashly conservative, and the rest don't seem to care.
Bearhuntaa you are acting out one of the forms Tony describes of abdicating responsibility and derailing the whole argument. This isn't about you, mate! it is about accepting that shit has happened, and continues to happen, and we all have a role to play in today and tomorrow's society. Each one of us who is non-Aboriginal has a responsibility to the Original Custodians of this land, white, Brown, yellow or speckled. It is through Aboriginal blood, sweat and tears that we are advantaged.
you mean how do the dead guys that have the same skin color as us remember their colonial past? i dont think they can, their dead, me on the other hand, never been much for colonialism myself.
@bearhuntaa Countries like the US & Australia began as colonies. In both countries, the indigenous people still live there & still are suffering the consequences of colonialism while the white people are still benefiting from what their ancestors did. Also many Western countries still practice a less obvious form of colonialism. The US deposes govts & puts in new govts in various countries, but they won't take over the govt. The US has bases all over the world which it uses to impose it's power.
@MarmaladeINFP there is no collective group known as "the white people" i am an individual my friend, do not classify me as such. thats the equivalent of "you black people . . . " Either way, I agree something needs to be done for the people still suffering under the hand of the federal government.
@bearhuntaa Well, many people disagree with you. White has had meaning in the past & still does. If you want the technical term, then white simply means non-hispanic caucasian. Most people know what such terms mean. If you're ignorant of such facts, don't blame me. Yes, in countries like the US & Australia, non-hispanic caucasians have privileges & advantages over other races. This has been shown in research. Sadly, racial prejudice exists in all parts of society, not just the govt.
@MarmaladeINFP No, you're still completely ignorant in trying to label an entire group of people as one thing. that's not how the world works, it's just intellectually lazy and dishonest. Sadly, if you cared at all about "racial equality" you've be doing something to help the brown countries out of the stone age instead of bitching at how the white man is keeping them all down.
@bearhuntaa Scientists can determine someone's race according to their DNA. They can tell who you ancestors were, where they lived, & where they migrated from. One difference between races is that Europeans interbred with Neanderthals which shows in their DNA, but some African tribes have no Neanderthal DNA. Ignoring objective data, perception of race is also important. They can measure prejudice of behavior based on perception of race. So, I have science on my side. You have opinion & ideology.
@MarmaladeINFP Way to give me a standard definition about what constitutes a person's race. Still doesn't mean that anyone is responsible for other people's actions just because they are related, which is the premise to your argument, that I somehow need to change my ways because I'm white and this system I was born into was white. give me a fucking break, you're the actual racist here, not me.
@bearhuntaa I never made it personal. My argument is based on the scientific evidence showing racial prejudice is systemic in all areas of society & usually operates unconsciously. I'm not blaming any single person. However, as long as such prejudice exists, we don't live in a fair & equal society. I believe in democratic values & constitutional rights, but presently our society doesn't fully live up to them. It isn't merely or even mostly a personal problem, but we all personally are complicit.
@MarmaladeINFP Not only is it systemic, but it is also natural for humans to be prejudice. prejudice is not some evil doing of colonialism, but existed in humans throughout history. But agree, we do need to get rid of all racially motivated and prejudiced laws, for instance, like affirmative action. Affirmative action is a law based on the color of one's skin. If your skin is a certain color, you have a better chance of getting hired into a company.
@bearhuntaa Prejudice is natural to an extent, but anyone who uses that as an excuse is an immoral bigot. We aren't mere slaves to genetics. How genetics manifest into human behavior has a lot to do with culture. Western culture grew out of colonialism which created a social system that effects us today. Affirmative action is only necessary to the degree people are unwilling or unable to own up to & change their own prejudiced behavior, conscious or not.
@bearhuntaa According to the scientific research that you're either ignorant of or dismiss out of convenience --- if your skin color is darker: you're more likely to grow up in areas that have high poverty & crime & fewer job opportunities; you're more likely to get inadequate education & lower pay if you find work; you're more likely to be targeted by police & be judged more harshly in a court of law. If systemic & institutional racial prejudice didn't exist, neither would affirmative action.
@MarmaladeINFP So you try and balance the skin colors of the world to be more equal? That's racist in itself and you're a hypocrite. Has it occurred to you that the reason that these people have higher poverty and crime is because they bring it upon themselves? Look at 90% of Africa. They are still in the stone ages. Look at the Middle Eastern countries. Their religion zealotry guides their every move. Nothing scientific or technological comes from these regions because of backwards thinking
@bearhuntaa You can't actually be that naively igorant, can you? Africa exists the way it does today because of colonialism. The national borders were artificially created by colonizlists who dismissed tribal differences which has led to conflict. The same thing happened in the Middle East with Western govts imposing artificial national borders. Plus, those colonialists have continuously meddled in these countries & their govts over this last century. They're the result of Western imperialism.
@MarmaladeINFP As far as the middle eastern borders, they were in conflict way before the west ever got involved, that's a whole other story. Look, I'm not denying that colonialism happened, but their living standards today is in no way in direct correlation with our imperialism. If anything, our imperialism, as dirty and ugly as it was, gave them a better standard of living. I'm not saying that makes it moral. Looking at this objectively as possible, the main factor comes down to education.
@MarmaladeINFP Your dealing with an individual who is being defensive and will not open their mind as the man in this video says.I believe that bearhuntaa fits into the categories mentioned in the video -bearhuntaa believes your views are "fictional,supect and has no validity in either memory or imagination" and bearhuntaa is "hostile when provoked with the potential" you put forward.Totally agree with what you say but bearhuntaa needs to be more open minded & less defensive of the indefensible
@casting4325 Oh, I understand. I often feel cynical when dealing with people who seem to have their minds set, but part of me believes anyone can potentially change their mind when confronted with new info. I believe that truth matters. It's just a fact research has objectively proven racial prejudice still exists. It isn't to blame anyone. It's a part of our culture & most people are unaware it influences their thinking & behavior. Once made aware, I'd like to believe most people can change.
@MarmaladeINFP You are correct in what you say.A human rights lawyer from South Africa is currently in Australia & told a story on the ABC the other day about how a racist nationalist who wanted to keep apartheid tried to assasinate him. When confronted by him in the early days of the apartheid collapse he refused to shake his hand and told him to go to the "truth and reconciliation commission". When he seen him again sometime later he shook his hand & foregave him because he new he had changed.
@bearhuntaa If you watched and listened to what this man said in this video which category do you fit into now that MarmaladeINFP has "provoked" you?Based upon your comments I would say u fall within two of the categories mentioned such as believing that the atrocious treatment of the Originee people of Australia is supect and has no validity in either memory or imagination and you are hostile when provoked with the postential of a different truth than yours.Think responsibly n imagine the past
@randomOmoniker
All Australians benefit from Aboriginal disposession, we are rich from mining, all land had defined boundarys for 50,000 years, laws from the other side of the world doesnt change the fact its the Aboriginals rightful inheritence
gunailad 4 weeks ago
@rokket
In Australia any Aboriginal side of the story must have physical documents to support it, once you gain an overview history is not good, anyway I want to see the physical documents that make forced settlement in Australia legal?
gunailad 4 weeks ago
....similar to if you verbally tell a story, over time it changes. What may have been a minor event involving 5 people, lasting 30 minutes, 100 years later, can be a major event involving 50 lasting half the day. As time goes on, the way a story is told changes, people add to it, and in time, it's a very different story.
Rokket 3 months ago
When I studied history of this land, taught by white men, I began to accept my responsibility for inheriting what my white forebears did to indigenous families with darker skin than our own; and in the long run, I also got taught by indigenous families, to remember that my white ancestors intermarried with black ancestors, and so it became the story, that by owning and accepting responsibility for colonists among my ancestry, I found my way into becoming reclaimed by my indigenous ancestry.
curaezipirid 4 months ago
Good one Tony my bro, too solid!
Gunnabee 11 months ago
I totally agree with all of what he said, it is rare to find a western that has such a clear vision and are not lying to them self
thabetalqasir 11 months ago
Jungism
lesleyblood1 1 year ago
what i remember about colonial past is that they were damn good at it. however i refuse to take responsibility for shit my ancestors did before i was born. im fucking swedish, do you have any idea how much shit we pulled per capita!? id spen the rest of my life saying sorry. what we SHOULD remember about colonialism is: dont. fucking. do it. again.
so its not something you appologize for but rather something you keep in mind when you meet the na'vi
random0moniker 1 year ago
@random0moniker I would pose to you the question of what they were they good at in the colonial past? Is this a romantic vision of migration and settlement within the context of a centralized power structure seeking resources to maintain its own cultural validity within a competitive region of shifting power dynamics? And if you claim to be Swedish aren't you taking responsibility for your ancestry by aligning yourself with spatial and cultural heritage definitions of societal values?
myoclonicjerkz 9 months ago
@myoclonicjerkz
we were more raidingy than colonialismy but my predecessors were very good at killing people and making others lives miserable.
but why the fuck should i need to appologie for something that i couldent affect? our current culture and those physically located within our borders do not endorse any of that shit.
random0moniker 9 months ago
how about this for how we treated the aboriginals... why is it, that this aboriginal past is being pushed on me... however our historians must keep in mind that morals and values today are different, we have aboriginals who judge the past with morals of today, thus things aren't moving... Also, the settlers came in and killed the aboriginals and we are blamed, jet we were the convicts... so really, aboriginals and convicts were not really interacting in the negative ways perceived
HaydenHatTrick 1 year ago
@HaydenHatTrick also, the big bad things that happened was done by how few people compared to the entire population, usually someone with power just writing with a pen, not everyone was on the same side...
HaydenHatTrick 1 year ago
@HatTrick And those people with "power" and the "pens" are still committing crimes against the Originee people.Government bureaucrats are using those pens to sign off on destruction of our heritage and burial sites under the illegally assumed authority of the "Ministers",Government and the State without consultation or approval of the Originee Traditional Owner people.You are right that a "few" people did, and are still doing, the "big bad things" to our people,and they are called "Governments".
casting4325 1 year ago
@casting4325 my I also note, that it is the Australian stereotype to hate our own politicians... which we do :P
HaydenHatTrick 1 year ago
@HaydenHatTrick I wish it were that way in America. as it is now, the vocal minority only hates politicians that aren't brashly conservative, and the rest don't seem to care.
losetheillusions 1 year ago
@losetheillusions you mind if I pm you to talk about that?
HaydenHatTrick 1 year ago
Bearhuntaa you are acting out one of the forms Tony describes of abdicating responsibility and derailing the whole argument. This isn't about you, mate! it is about accepting that shit has happened, and continues to happen, and we all have a role to play in today and tomorrow's society. Each one of us who is non-Aboriginal has a responsibility to the Original Custodians of this land, white, Brown, yellow or speckled. It is through Aboriginal blood, sweat and tears that we are advantaged.
cosmos278 1 year ago 8
you mean how do the dead guys that have the same skin color as us remember their colonial past? i dont think they can, their dead, me on the other hand, never been much for colonialism myself.
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa they'reeeeee
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa Countries like the US & Australia began as colonies. In both countries, the indigenous people still live there & still are suffering the consequences of colonialism while the white people are still benefiting from what their ancestors did. Also many Western countries still practice a less obvious form of colonialism. The US deposes govts & puts in new govts in various countries, but they won't take over the govt. The US has bases all over the world which it uses to impose it's power.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP there is no collective group known as "the white people" i am an individual my friend, do not classify me as such. thats the equivalent of "you black people . . . " Either way, I agree something needs to be done for the people still suffering under the hand of the federal government.
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa Well, many people disagree with you. White has had meaning in the past & still does. If you want the technical term, then white simply means non-hispanic caucasian. Most people know what such terms mean. If you're ignorant of such facts, don't blame me. Yes, in countries like the US & Australia, non-hispanic caucasians have privileges & advantages over other races. This has been shown in research. Sadly, racial prejudice exists in all parts of society, not just the govt.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP No, you're still completely ignorant in trying to label an entire group of people as one thing. that's not how the world works, it's just intellectually lazy and dishonest. Sadly, if you cared at all about "racial equality" you've be doing something to help the brown countries out of the stone age instead of bitching at how the white man is keeping them all down.
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa Scientists can determine someone's race according to their DNA. They can tell who you ancestors were, where they lived, & where they migrated from. One difference between races is that Europeans interbred with Neanderthals which shows in their DNA, but some African tribes have no Neanderthal DNA. Ignoring objective data, perception of race is also important. They can measure prejudice of behavior based on perception of race. So, I have science on my side. You have opinion & ideology.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP Way to give me a standard definition about what constitutes a person's race. Still doesn't mean that anyone is responsible for other people's actions just because they are related, which is the premise to your argument, that I somehow need to change my ways because I'm white and this system I was born into was white. give me a fucking break, you're the actual racist here, not me.
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa I never made it personal. My argument is based on the scientific evidence showing racial prejudice is systemic in all areas of society & usually operates unconsciously. I'm not blaming any single person. However, as long as such prejudice exists, we don't live in a fair & equal society. I believe in democratic values & constitutional rights, but presently our society doesn't fully live up to them. It isn't merely or even mostly a personal problem, but we all personally are complicit.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP Not only is it systemic, but it is also natural for humans to be prejudice. prejudice is not some evil doing of colonialism, but existed in humans throughout history. But agree, we do need to get rid of all racially motivated and prejudiced laws, for instance, like affirmative action. Affirmative action is a law based on the color of one's skin. If your skin is a certain color, you have a better chance of getting hired into a company.
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa Prejudice is natural to an extent, but anyone who uses that as an excuse is an immoral bigot. We aren't mere slaves to genetics. How genetics manifest into human behavior has a lot to do with culture. Western culture grew out of colonialism which created a social system that effects us today. Affirmative action is only necessary to the degree people are unwilling or unable to own up to & change their own prejudiced behavior, conscious or not.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa According to the scientific research that you're either ignorant of or dismiss out of convenience --- if your skin color is darker: you're more likely to grow up in areas that have high poverty & crime & fewer job opportunities; you're more likely to get inadequate education & lower pay if you find work; you're more likely to be targeted by police & be judged more harshly in a court of law. If systemic & institutional racial prejudice didn't exist, neither would affirmative action.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP So you try and balance the skin colors of the world to be more equal? That's racist in itself and you're a hypocrite. Has it occurred to you that the reason that these people have higher poverty and crime is because they bring it upon themselves? Look at 90% of Africa. They are still in the stone ages. Look at the Middle Eastern countries. Their religion zealotry guides their every move. Nothing scientific or technological comes from these regions because of backwards thinking
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa You can't actually be that naively igorant, can you? Africa exists the way it does today because of colonialism. The national borders were artificially created by colonizlists who dismissed tribal differences which has led to conflict. The same thing happened in the Middle East with Western govts imposing artificial national borders. Plus, those colonialists have continuously meddled in these countries & their govts over this last century. They're the result of Western imperialism.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP As far as the middle eastern borders, they were in conflict way before the west ever got involved, that's a whole other story. Look, I'm not denying that colonialism happened, but their living standards today is in no way in direct correlation with our imperialism. If anything, our imperialism, as dirty and ugly as it was, gave them a better standard of living. I'm not saying that makes it moral. Looking at this objectively as possible, the main factor comes down to education.
bearhuntaa 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP Your dealing with an individual who is being defensive and will not open their mind as the man in this video says.I believe that bearhuntaa fits into the categories mentioned in the video -bearhuntaa believes your views are "fictional,supect and has no validity in either memory or imagination" and bearhuntaa is "hostile when provoked with the potential" you put forward.Totally agree with what you say but bearhuntaa needs to be more open minded & less defensive of the indefensible
casting4325 1 year ago
@casting4325 Oh, I understand. I often feel cynical when dealing with people who seem to have their minds set, but part of me believes anyone can potentially change their mind when confronted with new info. I believe that truth matters. It's just a fact research has objectively proven racial prejudice still exists. It isn't to blame anyone. It's a part of our culture & most people are unaware it influences their thinking & behavior. Once made aware, I'd like to believe most people can change.
MarmaladeINFP 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP You are correct in what you say.A human rights lawyer from South Africa is currently in Australia & told a story on the ABC the other day about how a racist nationalist who wanted to keep apartheid tried to assasinate him. When confronted by him in the early days of the apartheid collapse he refused to shake his hand and told him to go to the "truth and reconciliation commission". When he seen him again sometime later he shook his hand & foregave him because he new he had changed.
casting4325 1 year ago
@MarmaladeINFP However in saying this, I'm convinced Australia will not choose to change its ways so easily.
casting4325 1 year ago
@bearhuntaa If you watched and listened to what this man said in this video which category do you fit into now that MarmaladeINFP has "provoked" you?Based upon your comments I would say u fall within two of the categories mentioned such as believing that the atrocious treatment of the Originee people of Australia is supect and has no validity in either memory or imagination and you are hostile when provoked with the postential of a different truth than yours.Think responsibly n imagine the past
casting4325 1 year ago