Tom, just curious, On your milliamp meter that's in series with the lights...how does four 8ma lights add up to more than 200mA ? Or is there another load/path you haven't mentioned?
@tj7729 Thats a good question thats been brought to my attention. I then used a cheap meter and found very different results. I also had an amp reading with the expensive true RMS meter I was using?? There is something about this circuit that needs more looking into with perhaps a good scope which I dont have. I have never found a circuit that behaves the way this one does. I do believe however that it is extremely efficient and uses a fraction of watt to operate.
Sorry I should explain it more correctly: your DC meters show the average DC current and voltage. Average power is not equal to average voltage times average current, in general. Average power (energy per unit time) is the average of instantaneous current multiplied by instantaneous voltage. It is possible to have non zero average voltage and current, but zero average power! Measuring and multiplying it like you are does not tell you the power!
@frosty956 I left this to those with more knowledge and advanced test equipment to check out. If you have replicated this you would know for sure. If you have not then all is speculation. In any event I can lay my fingers across the 12 volt DC input terminals without recieving a electrical shock.
The shock I would recieve laying fingers across the output terminals would KILL me. THE SPARK BURNS METAL!
You have a very efficient circuit. If the Kill a watt you a power factor of 1.0 then your power input is correct for 2.9 Watts.
if not you will need a oscilloscope to find out true RMS input. If your output is pulse width modulation of sine wave. The same thing applies you will need a scope check. If its true sine wave you can use RMS formula its accurate enough. If PWM yuo will need to account for the duty cycle. I.e. 50% duty cylce is 50% power. Hope this help.
@broli123 Thanks, I could not start this device while trying to take a current reading at its 12 volt input for some very strange reason. I could measure voltage and it started up fine???? So I bought the watt meter figuring I could see what the input true power was in watts and compare that to the dc output power coming out of the rectifier. I have very limited equipment so I hope others might look into this and see where and how the extra power "if any" is coming from.
At teep if you look under terms and conditions there is a thread headed 'please read before signing up'. It will show you how to upload pictures and videos to your posts
Youtube won't let me post a comment here. If you have my email address send me yours and I'll give you instructions on how to attach pictures and videos on the forum.
I dont know how old or what kind of laptop you have. I also dont know if you are using the "exact" same watt meter I used. My advice is to take a standard 100 watt light bulb in a lamp and plug the lamp into the watt meter to see what it reads???
How do you do that? I see you can only post messages not Jpeg images. I have the circuit and would love to post it somewhere that I can reference others to in a link form.
You simply can't multiply one multimeter voltage reading by the other multimeter's current reading. You have no idea what the relationship is between the instantaneous voltage and instantaneous current is. The true average power to the load is the integral of the instantaneous voltage times instantaneous current over one full cycle divided by the time period of that cycle. If you could do that calculation then you would see that the setup is under unity.
@User2718218 Both my multimeters are the True RMS type. The wattmeter is point two percent accurate. I am metering only OUTPUT "DC" voltage and "DC" current. with the multimeters. I am not metering AC voltage or current at all. You are welcome to build the setup yourself and test it.
@64298 If you post the circuit somewhere I can comment more. I am not convinced that the voltage and current that you are metering is DC. It looks possible that you are routing the flyback output from your main coil through a diode and metering that. Can I ask you for the manufacturer and part number for the LED lamps? The TEEP forum or the overunity web site are two places where you could post your schematic diagram. Good luck.
Link me to a web page where I can post a jpeg of the exact circuit diagram and all the lamp info I used. This particular circuit was never posted by me? I modified what I did in the past. Exactly how do you post a jpeg photo in the TEEP forum? All I see is spaces for letter postings and no provision for jpeg attachments.
@User2718218 I believe the back EMF power from the coil is triggered by the spinning magnet and is harvested in the form of DC power after the rectifier circuit.
i´m wondering about the phase of the output volts and amps... i think in a pulsing signal they are usually out of phase which means that simply multiplying the two numbers will not give an acurate idea of the power. can you hook the output to an oscilloscope and show the V and A together to see where they stand? or use the output to charge a cap and exactly match discharge from this through a measured resistor to calculate power precisely...
My interest in this started by constructing your particular Tracmag device. Later I focused only on ideas emplying a spinning Diametric ring magnet. Never gave up or lost interest . I still dont even know if this is a success at all ! . Need a lot of input and replications by others. Not after money or fame. Just love doing this sort of thing.
@hanker8860 All my postings are open source and Its my wish to have anyone interested construct them, sell them or patent them. If any money is to be made from doing so please give in part what you feel in your heart to some worthwhile charity. I am at an age where money or fame is no longer important to me.
Tom, just curious, On your milliamp meter that's in series with the lights...how does four 8ma lights add up to more than 200mA ? Or is there another load/path you haven't mentioned?
tj7729 11 months ago
@tj7729 Thats a good question thats been brought to my attention. I then used a cheap meter and found very different results. I also had an amp reading with the expensive true RMS meter I was using?? There is something about this circuit that needs more looking into with perhaps a good scope which I dont have. I have never found a circuit that behaves the way this one does. I do believe however that it is extremely efficient and uses a fraction of watt to operate.
64298 11 months ago
Sorry I should explain it more correctly: your DC meters show the average DC current and voltage. Average power is not equal to average voltage times average current, in general. Average power (energy per unit time) is the average of instantaneous current multiplied by instantaneous voltage. It is possible to have non zero average voltage and current, but zero average power! Measuring and multiplying it like you are does not tell you the power!
frosty956 1 year ago
@frosty956 I left this to those with more knowledge and advanced test equipment to check out. If you have replicated this you would know for sure. If you have not then all is speculation. In any event I can lay my fingers across the 12 volt DC input terminals without recieving a electrical shock.
The shock I would recieve laying fingers across the output terminals would KILL me. THE SPARK BURNS METAL!
64298 1 year ago
You have a very efficient circuit. If the Kill a watt you a power factor of 1.0 then your power input is correct for 2.9 Watts.
if not you will need a oscilloscope to find out true RMS input. If your output is pulse width modulation of sine wave. The same thing applies you will need a scope check. If its true sine wave you can use RMS formula its accurate enough. If PWM yuo will need to account for the duty cycle. I.e. 50% duty cylce is 50% power. Hope this help.
PoirierMike 1 year ago
mann, that is efficient
juniortore1 1 year ago
@broli123 Thanks, I could not start this device while trying to take a current reading at its 12 volt input for some very strange reason. I could measure voltage and it started up fine???? So I bought the watt meter figuring I could see what the input true power was in watts and compare that to the dc output power coming out of the rectifier. I have very limited equipment so I hope others might look into this and see where and how the extra power "if any" is coming from.
64298 1 year ago
Hi 64298...
Read: PLEASE READ BEFORE SIGNING UP. It will show you how to upload pictures to your posts.
Good Experimenting...
Poppy
PoppyNumber1 1 year ago
Hi Tom...
At teep if you look under terms and conditions there is a thread headed 'please read before signing up'. It will show you how to upload pictures and videos to your posts
Good Experimenting...
Poppy
PoppyNumber1 1 year ago
Hi 64298...
Youtube won't let me post a comment here. If you have my email address send me yours and I'll give you instructions on how to attach pictures and videos on the forum.
Good Experimenting...
Poppy
PoppyNumber1 1 year ago
Im not an Electrical guy. But arn't those "Watt Meters" effected by Power Factor?
My identical Watt Meter confuses me, in that when i check the WATT draw and AMP draw when hooked up to my lap top the readings are-
21 WATTS - then swicth to volts-
120.2 VOLTS - then Amps-
0.35 AMPS.-
So 120.2 x 0.35 = 42.07 Watts So which is right? and is there a way to adjust for "Power Factor?
Yourfishman 1 year ago
@Yourfishman
I dont know how old or what kind of laptop you have. I also dont know if you are using the "exact" same watt meter I used. My advice is to take a standard 100 watt light bulb in a lamp and plug the lamp into the watt meter to see what it reads???
64298 1 year ago
Hi 64298...
I am very interested in replicating your circuit. If it is available to the public please post a diagram and/or circuit schematic on the TEEP forum.
Thanks!
Good Experimenting...
Poppy
PoppyNumber1 1 year ago
@PoppyNumber1
How do you do that? I see you can only post messages not Jpeg images. I have the circuit and would love to post it somewhere that I can reference others to in a link form.
64298 1 year ago
You simply can't multiply one multimeter voltage reading by the other multimeter's current reading. You have no idea what the relationship is between the instantaneous voltage and instantaneous current is. The true average power to the load is the integral of the instantaneous voltage times instantaneous current over one full cycle divided by the time period of that cycle. If you could do that calculation then you would see that the setup is under unity.
User2718218 1 year ago
@User2718218 Both my multimeters are the True RMS type. The wattmeter is point two percent accurate. I am metering only OUTPUT "DC" voltage and "DC" current. with the multimeters. I am not metering AC voltage or current at all. You are welcome to build the setup yourself and test it.
64298 1 year ago
@64298 If you post the circuit somewhere I can comment more. I am not convinced that the voltage and current that you are metering is DC. It looks possible that you are routing the flyback output from your main coil through a diode and metering that. Can I ask you for the manufacturer and part number for the LED lamps? The TEEP forum or the overunity web site are two places where you could post your schematic diagram. Good luck.
User2718218 1 year ago
@User2718218 Hi,
Link me to a web page where I can post a jpeg of the exact circuit diagram and all the lamp info I used. This particular circuit was never posted by me? I modified what I did in the past. Exactly how do you post a jpeg photo in the TEEP forum? All I see is spaces for letter postings and no provision for jpeg attachments.
64298 1 year ago
@User2718218 I believe the back EMF power from the coil is triggered by the spinning magnet and is harvested in the form of DC power after the rectifier circuit.
64298 1 year ago
i´m wondering about the phase of the output volts and amps... i think in a pulsing signal they are usually out of phase which means that simply multiplying the two numbers will not give an acurate idea of the power. can you hook the output to an oscilloscope and show the V and A together to see where they stand? or use the output to charge a cap and exactly match discharge from this through a measured resistor to calculate power precisely...
sceptic33 1 year ago
@sceptic33
I answered that in my reply to User2718218
64298 1 year ago
Including the power used to power the PSU it's a little over 2 Watts more out than in.
I knew Tom would get there :)
Let's build a HUGE one !
deepcut66 1 year ago
@deepcut66
I watt of AC power is the same as 1 watt of DC power.
64298 1 year ago
What Tom do you consider to be the primary element in this setup that has brought about your success?
tracmag 1 year ago
@tracmag Hi George,
My interest in this started by constructing your particular Tracmag device. Later I focused only on ideas emplying a spinning Diametric ring magnet. Never gave up or lost interest . I still dont even know if this is a success at all ! . Need a lot of input and replications by others. Not after money or fame. Just love doing this sort of thing.
64298 1 year ago
That's very interesting and worth investigating more... Is your circuit open source? I won't be surprised if it is real OU.
hanker8860 1 year ago
@hanker8860 All my postings are open source and Its my wish to have anyone interested construct them, sell them or patent them. If any money is to be made from doing so please give in part what you feel in your heart to some worthwhile charity. I am at an age where money or fame is no longer important to me.
64298 1 year ago
kinda got lost in it, but it comes out the same as what is going in? or am i barking in the wrong direction.
TedFnBuckle 1 year ago
@TedFnBuckle Over 8 watts OUTPUT from a electronic box having an INPUT of 3.4 watts.
64298 1 year ago