THE EMPTY CROSS: WHY JESUS DIDN'T EXIST COMPLETE DVD PART 2 OF 7

[guyNbluejeans]

I like this lady's ability to show a timeline of historical religious and philosophical events and how she speaks so eruditely on the subject, though I don't know how accurate she really is with historical facts.

I have had numerous mystical experiences throughout the course of my life, and from those I've been able to gain what I fear are valid insights into what's going on in this world spiritually. One day, if The Lord wants, I will lay it all out for people to ponder the sobering things....

[daniellachlanclark]

Just recently Australian lecturer in History from Macquarie University John Dickson, put a challenge for anyone in the world to find just one legitimate Professor in the field of Ancient History/New Testament, from a real university who held the claim that Jesus never lived... If one could be found, he would eat a page of his Bible. Not one was found, his Bible remains intact. Just saying.

[splicedenergy]

@daniellachlanclark If the challenge was rather biblical scholars instead of "professors" there'd be no problem. Richard Carrier would be 1st in line

[daniellachlanclark]

@splicedenergy You're not quite right there... firstly Richard Carrier WOULD qualify as a professor in the field of History, he also has a PhD in ancient history from Columbia University. Though to quote Richard Carrier "The clear consensus of experts is that Jesus existed, was crucified, and buried (in fact, only a very small minority, and that uninformed, argues against tomb burial, and I quite agree with the majority here, that this tiny minority's arguments are uninformed and thus unsound)."

[daniellachlanclark]

@daniellachlanclark Where Carrier departs from Christian Historians and debates quite consistently against them is in the question of Jesus being raised from the dead, his ability to do supernatural works and so on. This is the position of the majority of qualified secular historians looking at the historicity of Jesus. That he existed, but that he couldn't have possibly done the things people at the time said he did.

[splicedenergy]

@daniellachlanclark Carrier does not believe Jesus existed at all.

[daniellachlanclark]

@splicedenergy I'll concede that Carrier has challenged historians to view the the historicity of Jesus through a Bayesian model - and to demonstrate the need he takes a tongue in cheek look at whether Jesus existed at all. This doesn't mean he holds this view. Above I quoted him recognising that only a "very small minority, and that uninformed, argues against a tomb burial (of Jesus)" he has also said in an interview this year: "If my method can prove Jesus existed, I'd count that a win"

[CarolineOskarsson]

@daniellachlanclark

There is no evidence for Moses or the Exodus and many many more things in the Bible and yet you christians still believe in it 100 %. Face it, it doesn't matter what the evidence say because christians will always believe in the Bible over evidence.

[daniellachlanclark]

@CarolineOskarsson Well I didn't say or claim anything about Moses or the Exodus here... but seeing as you've brought it up, what sort of evidence would you say one would need or be able to provide to count as "some" evidence? In that you've said there is "no" evidence, if I were able to provide "some" evidence, would you be able to "face it"? That you and I are no different? That it doesn't matter what evidence I could provide you'll never consider the Bible as being even remotely reliable?

[MRGV7373]

The person and the people of this video don't know their history very well and don't even begin to give the NT history any truth about what really happened. Not much validity to listen to here.

[MRGV7373]

Even the gnostics gospels show that Jesus lived. 2 of the gospels were written by apostles and 2 were not. No Jesus no Apostles? very Funny. Josephus omits much of roman history, Why he did not have time and the memory of all the history. Paul wrote to the churches that already knew about Jesus so why write it again, plus Paul was writing to help and guide the churches not to tell them in Jesus - Paul had done this already. Not too bright here.

[mancsakacarl]

who gives a fuck about josephus? the talmud mocks jesus because the jews know the truth! JESUS WAS THE TRUE SON OF GOD , LIVE WITH IT SYNOGUE OF SATAN!

[ParagramTree]

@mancsakacarl There is no hard evidence that Jesus actually existed. You are only a christian because you have been brainwashed into believing in it since child hood. had you been born in a muslim country you would believe Islam to be true, had you been born in a hindu country you would believe hinuism to be true, and so on. All religions are just fairytales! Grow up and stop believing in bullshit make believe stories!

[mancsakacarl]

nonsense to believe christ never existed

[RebelAllianceMedia]

@mancsakacarl so wheres the proof?....... faith???

[mancsakacarl]

@RebelAllianceMedia can a myth last 2 thousand years , convert jews and greeks to his point of view and continue to change rome and the world? pahhh ha haa haa wake up , jesus is as real now as he was then!!

[shredmaster100]

theres loads of evidence jesus existed theres 5 or more historians from the 1st century who write that he was hanged by the procurator of judea pontius pilate and there was an eclipse of the moon when he died one of the historians is tacitus a respected roman historian and u did not mention josephus other passage where he damms christ and the christians the reason why theres not books of writings on jesus is because nero was so frightened of jesus that he ordered the records be destroyed

[fhab525]

people have been arguing about this shit forever now, the only reason religion exist is because is a billion dollar industry and is the best weapon to keep people in check worrying about nothing and killing for it on top of it

[123coining123]

@Kaddaemon He did not write The God delusion.

[oker59]

I keep thinking Josephus was Paul. I'll get back to this hopefully soon;

[thone2008]

@oker59

Josephus WAS Jesus

[EdM021]

Yes, Josephus did proclaim Vespasian the Messiah to his face! That's the first reason why we have Josephus' writings. But he uses different veribage where the Messiah is not referred to as shuch but as the prophseied ruler to arise out of Judea. I suspect the reason why is that there were scores of "Jesuses" or more correctly, Joshuas, each of whom in turn the Jewish masses proclaimed as the Messiah. And all of them failed! And ended up nailed to and impaled on purpose-built cruciform gallows.

[EdM021]

Added comment: Justin Martyr describes these gallows in Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 91. In the original Greek and some Latin translations he makes it obvious that it was designed for some perverted kind of impalement.

[AndreaSPitaim]

Just completing the below: in fact, Justin Martyr does not quote the gospels by mentioning the traditional authors (Mark, Luke, Matthew, John) but he actually quotes all them by the name of "Memory of the Apostles" (probably because he used a compilation of all four without the strict division we know). The author of this video has distorted the truth by saying Justin does not quote the gospels because he DO quote them many many times and also say they must be read during the masses.

[AndreaSPitaim]

0:26 is a tremendous lie. Justin Martyr DO quote the gospels many times, for instance Lk 22,19 ; Mk 14,22; Mk 14,24 - Justin – I Apology Chap. 66-67 : PG 6,427 - 431.

Beware of giving credit to all these internet materials before checking up what is being said.

[bodom71]

For further study on this please refer to the video "Did Jesus exist" 1 of 4 and so on. This video should have researched more history and no just the part they want you to hear!!

[ilililhy1]

JESUS CAME TO SET THE CAPTIVES FREE,HE WHO THE SON SET`S FREE IS FREE INDEED. THE HOLY GHOST BEARS WITNESS TO MY SOUL.

[smiggles7000]

justin who? one man? no proof.

[vanyortie]

Something was a little misleading so heads up: at 1min:25sec into this video, it references the Catholic Encyclopedia (CE) as stating that the "First four historical books are supplied with titles...which do not go back to the respective authors". 1) the Encyclopedia is talking about titles (ie "The Gospel According to Matthew", Mark, etc.) and not the content of the 4 Synoptic gospels. The CE is not indicating the first four books of the New Testament are not attributable to the apostles.

[vitolibido]

God was never created or destroyed and is everhwere.

Energy was never created or destroyed and is everywhere.

How can you prove energy was never created?

[franktastikart]

@vitolibido where is your prof? all your doing is spouting shit! and it sound dumb as shit!

[boblackey1]

@franktastikart I wish the lady would learn to pronounce Josephus correctly. Also the lady is NOT correct about Paul. In Paul's genuine letters we learn the Jesus was a Jew, born of a woman, born UNDER the law, gave bread and broke it on the night he was betrayed etc etc. There is a fragment of John's gospel which is date at 125 AD yet this lady claims the gospels were written late second century. This lady claims the famous TF passage from Josephus is a forgery but most experts don't agree!!!

[franktastikart]

@boblackey1 biblical scholars investigated the history of the four books of the gospels and if they were the writer's, the consensus of many biblical historians put the dating of the earliest gospel, that of Mark, at sometime after 70 AD, and the last Gospel, John after 90 AD.no one knows who actually wrote any of them. scholars know from critical textural research that there simply no evidence that the gospel authors could have served as the apostles described in the gospel stories.

[JGeorge1313]

There is nothing warmer than spirituality- a belief in something greater than ourselves, an eternal love that watches over us, a hug from the heavens.

Everything is perception. Is an apple a food, something to toss, a worms home, or the making of an apple pie, or mankinds fall?

Is religion a guide towards civil society, fundamentaly true, good stories, a reason to kill.

Trying to disprove religion is ignorance, a low blow and most of all doesn't work!

[dillingersteelflex]

@JGeorge1313 It's only a low-blow because people like to believe in the contrary. And they don't want the truth.

But having faith is blissful, I agree. Preaching complete certainty is arrogant however.

[franktastikart]

@JGeorge1313 Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

[XxXspacityheroXxX]

@franktastikart Quoted by Steven Weinberg in 1999.. If your going to quote someone, make sure you assign the name of the quoted to give due credit; otherwise it's just plagarism. ;-)

[cannotfindavoice]

There is more evidence of the Life of Jesus than there is for, Homer, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great , Gaius Julius Caesar , Cicero, Augustus, the list goes on & on. Before making any such video you should do your research first, get solid evidence to back it up. The evidence & info given in this vid is as sharp as a pair of children's plastic scissors.

[Anonomous0C]

@cannotfindavoice Actually the information is sharper than any blade. YOU, need to do YOUR, research.

[cannotfindavoice]

@Anonomous0C What can we say about the history of Jesus & this is educated Historical fact. Non-Christian, non-Jewish sources Jewish sources - Josephus, the Talmud, Cornelius Tacitus A.D. 55-120, Thallus, a Samaritan-born historian 52AD, Julius Africanus, a historian of the late second century 221 A,D. Pliny the Younger A.D. 112, Lucian of Samosata There is more literary evidence that Jesus existed than there is that Plato or Socrates's or even Caesar ever existed. No sir you do your research.

[Anonomous0C]

@cannotfindavoice *googles*, *reads a book*, *Reads some of the Torah*, *Reads some of the bible* Wrong again. I am not going to tell you where your flaws are. Mainly because, when I do, people start making stuff up. My parents did the same to me. No my friend, YOU need to do MORE research. And read both sides of the story, not just one side and be satisfied. I reads books from all points of view when I do my research.

[Anonomous0C]

@Anonomous0C Reads books? Excuse my typeing. XD

[cannotfindavoice]

@Anonomous0C it is pointless in trying to debate with someone like you, as no matter what evidence I give you or show you will never accept or believe. For that reason I will not bother answering you again, to the point of blocking your posts to me. as for reading both sides of the story I have done so & it took me many years before I found that it is true. You take the assumption that research has never been done, that assumption is foolish & arrogant, good by sir

[nycmacboy]

The quality of this documentary is about as good as the quality of The Case for Christ. I do believe in a higher power, but I am a strong believer in history, science, archaeology, etc. This video, while containing some good examples of flaws with the Gospels, is a poorly done hit piece that seems to conclude that every aspect of the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim beliefs are just myths conjured up in following centuries.

[SteefenSebashjun]

It is deeply flawed because of the suggestion the Testimony of Flavius Josephus is all one can know about Jesus from Josephus. Please see the book Insights on the Exodus, King David, and Jesus by for a thorough explanation. It comes out next Thursday. That's the definitive book to read on this subject.

[swilson3d]

I am an atheist and even I believe Jesus existed. I can't believe that even a God-hating atheist would believe these lies. They are more far-fetched than the Bible itself . It particularly get ridiculously far-fetched around 8:30

[NotQuiteLucid]

@swilson3d It became way too obvious that you're not an atheist and are just trying to debunk this video with a poorly thought out and fallacious refutal called begging the question when you described yourself as a "God-hating atheist". Better luck next time?

[swilson3d]

@NotQuiteLucid I am, in fact, an atheist and when I said a "God-hating atheis" I was referring not to myself but to the makers of this video. I AM in fact trying to debunk the video and I think that became obvious when I called it "ridiculously far-fetched". I believe there is no God but this video makes some connections and allegations which are really reaching. Historically , the evidence that there was a Jesus is fairly strong, the idea that he was a deity is another story.

[NotQuiteLucid]

@swilson3d Can you provide proof for your claims? This video had proof for its claims. I'm seriously interested. It's just your comment bothered me with its reasoning. Your position as an atheist is only marginally relevant here. What's more important is the proof of whether Jesus existed or not, which you seem to have. So share away, swilson.

[swilson3d]

@NotQuiteLucid No, I can provide evidence but not proof, and this video had no proof either. If it were proven, the subject would be closed. Cornelius Tacitus, a roman historian born in 56AD wrote of Jesus. Given his time he would possibly have met people who knew Jesus personally and it is unlikely a historian could have been so deceived about a matter that happened only 25 years before his birth.

[swilson3d]

@swilson3d Secondly a New Testament cover up about Jesus' birth place:

In order to fulfill prophecy, Jesus needed to be born in Bethlehem, but one of the Gospels has him born in Nazareth, the others have him born in Bethlehem. If it was all made up anyway, why a cover-up about the birth place of a fictional character? The census which allegedly brought them to Bethlehem historically is said to have never happened. So if the stories are not based on a real person, why a cover-up at all?

[Luchta]

It makes you wonder if fishermen or carpenters or labor workers at that time with no solid education can write historical facts. Good one.

[joeiacovino]

I would to see a companion book with the source material. I like the series so far and although the book will not satisfy those with indoctrinated small minds, it would at least allow fence-sitters a beginning reference point and some comfort the material is true.

[SteefenSebashjun]

Although this is a deeply flawed series of videos, I found this segment to have interesting information.

[IaintNoGood]

Here is an idea, how about pointing out what is flawed. If it is overwhelmingly flawed, just start with a couple of the flaws & cite your source for why you believe this. It is far more helpful than making ambiguous statements.

:-)

[SteefenSebashjun]

@IaintNoGood

I've found a wealth of information about Jesus from Josephus beyond the "Flavius Testimony." This is why this video and its series are deeply flawed. There's a book called Insights on the Exodus, King David, and Jesus by Steefen that explains a new Egyptological contribution to the historical-critical approach to the Historical Jesus and accurate history in the Bible.

[88feji]

@SteefenSebashjun

Will u just drop the "Josephus" thing already - this innocent historian's writings have been soo thoroughly tainted with forgeries by the dirty hands of the Christians that we can no longer admit his writings anymore.

..

Thats why modern history is so much more accurate and dependable as a record of true happenings - plenty of eye witnesses have handphone cameras etc. Ever wondered why these ancient "deities" r bcoming less "active" ? The miracles r not so grand nowadays?

[IaintNoGood]

@SteefenSebashjun

You can scream from the mountain tops that there is historical evidence of Jesus but the fact remains, there is none. Not one. let me repeat, NOT ONE, contemporaneous historian who wrote of Jesus. In fact, Josephus wrote far more extensively on Hercules than he did Jesus so by your "reasoning," and measure of fact finding, Hercules must, MUST have also existed. Sorry Scooter but you have not offered me anything other than more rhetoric.

:-D

[SteefenSebashjun]

@IaintNoGood The book is written and published (available on amazon). Again, the name of the book is Insights on the Exodus, King David, and Jesus by Steefen. Let me know when you've read it. Then we can talk.