What is & is not Snow Leopard / Windows 7

[Kerns0Phoegon]

Windows 7 incremental advancement? What were you thinking? I've seen massive improvements over Vista, in nearly every level, along with a brand new NTFS HDD structure, along with MORE features added that weren't in Vista.

What kind of Increment are you think of, a mile block?

[mrbit10]

@Kerns0Phoegon sure it was, why take that as an insult. Channel9 of Microsoft stated as much vs their history of OS bases switching to another.

[Kerns0Phoegon]

@mrbit10

Oh it was in how you said it honestly. all respects building on premises and tech from a prior OS is always incremental technically. Though how it comes off is, you said it like it was more a comprehensive Service Pack, with some serious bite to them, rather then a new OS.

I'll be honest I have the 'joy' of managing a Vista (Home Prem) and my 7 (Pro) and they don't feel anywhere near the same and just calling it incremental is understanding and almost insulting.

[Kerns0Phoegon]

@mrbit10

As for how things 'look' I tend not to be to picky, because I've learned well (windows ) can be made to look like almost any other OS (to include Console, with enough custom work with coding.. I'd not do it but still it can be done) and how it looks, rarely is a factor for me when comparing different OS.

[Kerns0Phoegon]

@Kerns0Phoegon

Under estimating* ..

(sorry for the misspellings, I'm not proof-reading what i type like I should, I'm just glancing)

[muk546]

windows 7 14gb os Snow Leopard 6gb Windows is Bloated

[CJCA915]

@muk546 Windows Vista was a lot more of a space eater, in fact most of the software I come across for both OS's, the OS X version is bigger in size.

[CptPakundo]

Umm, no.

Windows 7 is 9GB, but they're still well spent.

[joemygod1960]

Yo mrbit10.... could you please turn down the freaking normalized volume in your future videos?? seriously......

[wankelcrazy]

iswygfm - Hand movement when addressing is the correct way to speak to a public audience. Get up in front of a crowd and try speaking with your hands in your pants and see how unnatural it feels, or how receptive your audience was. Look at any president for an example.

[iswygfm]

Stop moving your hands nerve wreck...

[MichaelCast1]

Do you consider Tiger the best os?

[mrbit10]

over all OSs, no.

[cnssoccer20]

whats your favorite then?

[michaelmckeever9]

I heard some say as much as 50 gigs.

[TechEnigma]

an incremental change to windows would have been more then welcome...if vista wasent such a horrible OS.

im not a mac fan boy i have both macs and pc's and i find that i scream at my pc alot more lol.

[BorkGonsam]

I convinced my friend that Snow Leopard would be a good upgrade for his mac, based on what I read and heard, He happily upgraded, and there were no errors. He was severely disappointed that it really didn't show any significant speed increase, and he told me something about iLife wasn't working right, I think he had an older disk of it.

Windows 7 has given me some problems in the past, but the RTM I got from MSDN seems really quick and smooth.

[PoliticalHell]

Well Windows Vista 64 bit runs way faster then 32 bit, so there must be something to it.

[TalesOfWar]

64bit VIsta had quite a lot of rewriting for the core system functions like Explorer (although I believe in 7 the whole Explorer was rewritten from scratch). It's hard to bulid 32bit code into 64, so it was just new code, which is why 64bit Vista/7 runs faster (or seems to run, it may simply be in your head if it's on the same hardware with less than 4GB of RAM).

[PoliticalHell]

Well the computer I have it on is slightly better then my 32-bit desktop (pretty much only by having faster memory), but has a weaksauce core2 duo processor vs. a quad core on the 32-bit. So I don't know.

[retepvosnul]

What makes it hard are mostly human flaws that bind the code to a 32 bit architecture and thus has to be altered to compile. The other problem is interoperability. a 32bit chip will never run 64 bit code

[0501701]

windows is full 64 bit? like say windows media player and disk defrag are 64 bit? or does he mean by you can run 64 apps on windows?

[BorkGonsam]

there are two seperate operating systems for Windows

Windows 32bit

Windows 64bit

Windows 32bit will not run 64bit apps, but only 32bit apps, while Windows 64bit can run a sort of emulator to run 32bit apps aswell.

Thats what I could understand from it.

[TecnhoViking]

GEEKS GEEKS GEEKS

[Gforce002]

Hehe, Tiger is also still my favorite version of Mac OS X. Great video!

[master1140]

As always, love your videos:D Just wish you could produce them more and more often:P Keep it up:)

[roger767]

apple controls their own hardware and drivers, would be more easier to get the mac users to 64bit

[myiphoneadventure]

17:22 I hate that Snow Leopard is reporting HD in base 10. Letting HD manufactures' sales guys set the standard seems like a bad policy. I hate the way that the market has positioned everyone to advertise in base 10. In my work, I absolutely despise that I have to have a column in my spreadsheets when retrieving performance data that counts in base 10 (competitors do the same; can't blame work). I've had this pet peeve for years, and Apple falling prey to this idiot-math is lame. 1024 4 life!!

[mrbit10]

i agree completely computers will always be base 2 it is crazy to change that which is not even calculated as such just to get the conversion.

[michaelmcallister]

Speaking of Intel, what is your opinion on their new processor architecture (chipsets x58/p55)? Is it all hype? I know you have said in the past that there are not that many programs, as of right now, that are written to handle multiple cores. Do you think that will likely change with Windows 7?

[mrbit10]

Yes, if the chips stay multicore for much longer then it is very likely to see more programs use the cores and the operating systems make it friendlier. As for itnel they are getting closer to Hypertransport but we shall see, it is not all hype.

[ViciousDave4Life]

You can do a clean install of Snow Leopard, but if you do, you'll have to insert disc 2 of your Leopard discs for iLife09 applications to be installed, otherwise, the icons will be there but the applications will not be. Running an upgrade like I did is much better because you will not have to worry about your iLife applications, the Snow Leopard disc fully installs and rewrites code for all applications and background in the new coacoa and some 64 bit re-written apps.

[mrbit10]

my parents did a straight upgrade as the original apps installed showed up in the dock but were not there. we restored them via timemachine disk image. Perhaps later I will sit there and try again and make sure all is well.

[ViciousDave4Life]

Yeah, about that. I remember what happened now. After I was in Leopard and did the upgrade to Snow Leopard from the desktop, (it took like 13 minutes), I did have to re-install my 2nd Leopard disc which contains iLife09 applications on it. So my bad man. When you upgrade to Snow Leopard, you have to install your 2nd Leopard disc to get the iLife09 apps back in. I remember specifically this is what I had to do, and what everyone should of done. Clean install is same but takes longer.

[GlockNinja]

As always informative. thank you. So do you think MS got window 7 right? And do you think it is up to bar with Snow Leopard?

[Hypothesard]

win7 seems to have reached the Ok status, but not yet to be compared to OS X in general

[blacksteel25]

Yeah cost of Windows in USA and Europe is higher to subsidized (I'm putting that lightly) so cost in 3rd world countries can get it much cheaper because of different countries economy. In China a Full retail copy of Windows is much cheaper. MS must do this or people won't pay and end up pirating it then price of OS continues to go up. A majority of people will buy Win 7 with a new computer anyway, less buy it retail and if they do it's the cheaper upgrade version.

[AppleSoldier]

windows will have a hard time getting everyone to go 6bit, Apple will have everyone already 64bit for awhile before windows gets them all switched over.

10 . 7 will cut the 32bit cord. I hope, lol. Base 2, base 10? All I know is I now have lots more space, lol.

the glove isnt on the other hand. vista was a LOT WORSE than SL, lol. your parents must have had OLD ppc apps using rosetta.

[mrbit10]

they have the newest imac. and I did not make an equivelent between SL and Vista, Vista had other issues that made their transition worse, but SL via what I and others I know have had is bad but not as bad.

[mrbit10]

I give credit because MS made lots of mistakes, Eric they did, no one can deny this including MS themselves, but when they get it right finally, i recognize this. Did we not argue for evolution vs revolution, look at win 2.1 to 95, to 98 to Win2k to XP to Vista, all drastic, while Win 7 internals is a lot of work via their MS model it is a result of learning, you have to at least get that much. The cost is not the argument as stated below.

[AppleSoldier]

giving them credit for charging me 200 dollars for win7?

[mrbit10]

read my comment above.

[thebsdguy]

you're not buying it, are you? besides, it doesn't matter for the majority of users who just buy a new machine with the new OS every 4-5 years.

[mrbit10]

i already own it and my macbook 32 bit has it, but i will not install it on my mac pro development machine yet.

[thebsdguy]

i was replying to emeek's comment about MS charging -him- $200 for windows 7

[mrbit10]

wow, that must of come off really weird, lol

[mrbit10]

the comment that is.

[LeodimeII]

Charging you? You're not going to buy it and even if you do, you're going to bash it into the dirt.

[93and99]

Thank you.

[blacksteel25]

I was correct about Snow Leopard being mostly a 32bit default OS until drivers or EFI gets updated. Now I'll imagine a response back will be "Well at least SL performs better than 64bit Vista!"

[Hypothesard]

@Blacksteel25

It doesn't really matter if Snow Leopard runs a 64bit kernel/EFi as long it can run 64 bit apps as their respective developpers/editor release them.

The thing being that Apple made a clear stand and opened a real path to 64 bit where Microsoft has marginalised Windows 64.

In short : Snow Leopard as It is, can Run 64 and 32bit apps AND use 32bit drivers at the same time, where Windows 64bit CAN'T use 32 bit drivers and Win 32bit can't run 64 bit Apps while using 32bit drivers

[blacksteel25]

yep, you are correct Hypothesard. MS made a distinction or separation of 32bit and 64 bit giving the consumer a choice to use 64bit or not. It's not far off to when people were switching from a Windows 16bit to a 32bit although then you could fit both of those on one disk. Snow Leopard default to 32bit with 32bit drivers, uses 64bit extensions for apps, not exactly full 64bit yet. Windows 64bit has 64bit drivers with a 32bit compatibility layer natively running 64bit apps on a 64bit OS.

[Hypothesard]

@Blacksteel25

I hear you but I think my english is getting rusty, I try a 2nd time:

Windows 64 indeed runs 32bits app, but the problem IS that Win64 CAN'T use 32Bit drivers (printers, scanners, Mices, Keyboards) UNLIKE Snow Leopard.

So for NOW, ONLY a fraction of the Windows Users do have a 64 bit ready OS ACTUALLY installed (even among the power users/gamers)

And That dilema simply doesn't exist with Snow Leopard

10.6 is FULL 64 capable and FULL 32bit compatible

[1/2]

[mrbit10]

correct, because OSX packages K32 and k64 where they are separate in Windows. But 32 bit apps can run under WOW64

[mrbit10]

ah but not at the same time though as in concurrent 64 and 32.

[Hypothesard]

@mrbit10

I Knew Win 64 can run 32 apps, didn't thought I had to repeat it.

The problem being with all those peripherals people do have, which unfortunately are stuck with 32 bit drivers (for the most part will never get 64 drivers), and therefor those same users are forced to stick with a 32bit windows where with Apple's solution (Snow Leopard) allow them to move on and benefit from 64 bit parts when avalaible or when they'll buy new peripherals with 64 bit drivers.

[1/2]

[Hypothesard]

[2/2] (have to find another way to tag my posts :P)

disclaimer :

I have my copy of snow leopard, but I'm still waiting for some apps/utils/drivers an low level components to be validated for Snow Leopard

Plus I'm not moving my working environnement untill I've finished the actual projects

[Hypothesard]

[2/2]

of course 64 bit apps can't use 32 bit plugins, nor access 32 bit drivers

BUT for the most part those apps can be set to launch in 32 bit WITHOUT the need to install/use them under an 32bit only OS

It's not like squaring the circle but as far as it get, in proportion (not in numbers) Apple will have the bigger 64 bit OS adoption percentage for 10.7, where MS had 64bit for ages (2002-2003) and still can't push Its 64 bit as a mainstream OS

[Hypothesard]

err :"Apple will have the bigger 64 bit OS adoption percentage for 10.7" ... 10.6.3-10.6.4 in roughly 4-6 months

not even talking about the confusion induced by those different restricted versions of windows (basic, home, business, etc) which onle hise even more the fact that a 64 bit Windows do exist. How can people buy something they do even know It exist?

[Hypothesard]

errd 2 "hise" => "hide" :P

[keytoothed]

Great vid, Mr. Bit. As usual, a lot of people get caught up in the surface aspects--because they don't know the internals like you do. Your input is always refreshing.

[AfroPenKid]

nice to see another vid to educate me with windows and osx

[sebianoti]

Its nothing like VISTA!

[mrbit10]

no vista had other issues.

[mrbit10]

lot's of them.

[AppleSoldier]

why is it bad to go from vista to win 7 incrementally? Why is it ok for apple and not MS? BECAUSE APPLE CHARGES 30 bucks for incremental OS's and win 7 is 200-300 dollars. Just My opinion. What they have learned is people will pay for it or go without. Its a mistake, your right, but its a mistake us customers are paying for. and win32 is not anything like SL. all SL leoaprd users have 64bit finder etc. What win 32 got?

[8innergate]

very true ms over charges for it when i saw wwdc09 and they said 30 bux that was just wow!. and btw watch ur vids whenever im on youtube good stuff(you make me wish i could afford a mac more than i already do)

[mrbit10]

the cost of a mac incorporates the cost of OS X, this is why i argue for setting OS X free, once free Macs prices drop, see other software vendors, just to get oracle it cost way more than a mac, adobe software as well, Final cut studio, logic studio very expensive and all software, thus OSX's cost is in part paid for via the Mac.

[8innergate]

excuse me with my comment i wasnt thinking straight. i think your right i totally agree i saw your vids on setting osx free and you made a lot of good points, i currently own a pc but im saving up for a mac i cant imagine what osx would be worth if apple set it free since macs themselves are so expensive. But,mac hardware does come with very good standard hardware for their machines. since hardware devs do what they want with windows you can get very crappy hardware.

[mrbit10]

I AM so glad you brought this up, OS X has been incramental from the beginning and finally I can now show you the cost of software in a mac sale vs Windows. Macs cost is part of OSX, it does not cost as much because you pay for part in the Mac price. MS is noting but software, IE Adobe sells photoshop for what a mac mini price and Oracle and others selling for more. Thanks for this comment because now I hope you can see. OS X has always been incremental but Winy not as much, they did a lot.

[mrbit10]

BUt WIn32 is not Win64 correct?

[ls1z28chris]

I did an upgrade install, not a clean install. I've had no issues. I use mostly the Apple apps w/ iLife and iWork during my daily tasks and they run noticeably fast. Fewer "bumps" when I open from the dock, less time in the real world.

As for other non-Apple apps, I couldn't tell you. They seem the same. In all I'd say it was worth the price of upgrade. I know people who are willing to pay the $30 for the native MS Exchange support.

[hamoda100]

Great video, totally love it :)

[zapzzapzzapz]

What apps will run that much better, that one should go Snow?

I'm assuming, that Logic Pro will get more juice off the CPU's in the current lineup of Mac Pros.. But well, I don't need more; I don't reach the ceiling ever.. But when then?

(It's not really pressing, since Snow breaks Pro Tools.. It's just to get educated really..)

[michaelmckeever9]

You're suggesting that people are being misled by the space gains?

[mrbit10]

there is space gain, i was saying that base 10 was not so much for the 20 gig gains, there is a 7 gig gain but it was from a correction that leopard had.

[Hypothesard]

THere is another factor of HDD space gain : Removal of unused Printer drivers, as they now are accsessible through the Apple software update mechanism, no need to install the whole - let's says, Epson, Canon or HP - brand family of drivers to get the support of the one really present, and that too is a big factor gain

Good vid

Thanks

PS : still waiting vids on LLVM, CLang, GCD, OpenCL, APPL own use of CSS3+WebKit extentions, HTML 5 properties, javascript (iTunes 9 interface + iTunes LP LP)

[thebsdguy]

isn't part of the space gain the sheer removal of PPC code?

[mrbit10]

yes a small part though as stated in the vid.

[geekfreackz]

It's been a while! How's everything been?

And yes, Tiger is still the best Mac OS !!!

[michaelmckeever9]

Tiger was/is rock solid.

[mrbit10]

doing well but busy ;)

[HolidayNova]

Great video.. I totally agree with all your analysis! to measure speed in computing and anything I guess .. we use Amdahl's speedup law. Your point about compatibility I don't know if it's right if it's macs problem or the programmer. If they rewrote the API and the timing has changed or a function is depreciated then that becomes a 3rd party problem they need to adapt ... or they might have coded something badly.. I doubt the API's are wrongs .. but who knows..

[mrbit10]

no, its a share process, not my own apps. But say MS they keep compatibility more so to try and keep as much legacy going, but i do not think that is also correct. It is up to vendors to change their code but users experience the loss while the change happens and thus complaints.

[michaelmckeever9]

I'm looking forward to win 7. On a Falcon Northwest pc.

[ShockaSlim]

I've been waiting for a video forever!!!

[ThingsontheWeb]

I can say that your tweets are the best, very informative

5/5

[DRBUK]

great vid ! ye mrbit brushes his teeth..lol.

[NuLLx42]

Long time no see, bit! You're looking a littly lossy there. Why so SD?

[mrbit10]

what is lossy? lol and SD? lol

[NuLLx42]

Lossy Compression, and standard definition. just poking fun at your lack of HD, unlike your usual vids.

[mrbit10]

oh give it time, its a 1 gig video, they will have the HD version up soon enough.

[ASCII808]

64 bit is nice. but if the app that is 64 bit runs worse than the 32 bit version, I'll stick with the 32bit version. Windows 7 is nice, if you buy pro, ultimate, or enterprise you get Xp in a vm. its two Os's in one. hopefully Snow leopard has a better bootcamp, because I want windows on it If I get another mac.

[DRBUK]

problem in leopard that was CORRECTED in snow leopard...ur not the only person ive heard that from.lol. (reducing package size) heard that in loads of articles

[mrbit10]

yep, the application bundles were unnecessarily too large on leopard.

[DRBUK]

ye i mean i believe for my macbook, im runnign 32-bit but some of my apps are 64-bit and i know which apps, ive seen the list on the mac...every app apple wrote is working in 64-bit mode...cpu cycles etc. i heard the things they got rid of, are actually being missed, even though results in more efficiency, i should find that article !

[DRBUK]

i always thought 64-bit just meant u can do more (have more ram have more apps open)..but what..in a few years the mac won't have to switch to 32-bit right ? as HOPEFULLY more apps and programs will be written for 64-bit..and i mean in the future.

[mrbit10]

it can do more, but do more does not equal speed all the time.

[runie360]

Only reason I use 64bit is so I can utilise all my ram, which I really need.

I don't see much performance difference with 32 or 64, but I didn't buy it for speed so I don't care.

I have had better stability with 64bit tho.

[NuLLx42]

Yeah same here, that and the fact im still on XP 64 bit. I really like XP's workflow, but still appreciate the advancements 7 or even vista provide that i could one day use. SSD compatibility for example. Sometimes I wish Microsoft could branch off XP in to a new, improved but not visually. I'm I the only one that thinks Vista / 7 use of white space in setting dialogs is poor?

[LeodimeII]

XP is still a 9 year old operating system which looks absolutely hideous and is no longer supported by Microsoft. The big blue fischer-price interface mixed with beige in the explorer! Trust me, just leave that thing alone and upgrade to something more modern and good looking.

[NuLLx42]

First: 9 years old, yes, but fully supported with updates and service packs.

Second: I set everything to classic, including start menu.

Third: I don't care how nice it looks, thats not what im after in an OS. I appreciate its advancements, but i don't like its digressions like the lack of classic start menu (might not matter to you, but it does to me) and little changes like that that make me not want to change to it. If you like it, fine, use it, but don't make an argument based on opinion.

[DRBUK]

oh my god the BITMISTER IS ALIVE ! lol, i think ill have to watch this video tomorrow ! lol. in true BIT FASHION its a HUGE VIDEO ! lol

[carlheanerd]

Todays OS's are becoming more evolutionary rather than revolutionary. And I like it. So less is being truly revolutionary in the desktop market these days, so I think that at least perfecting what we already have will ultimately benefit more. Remember the '90's, and how OS upgrades were almost always HUUUGE changes? No longer the case, since it isn't really needed. At least, not yet.

[michaelmckeever9]

I've been waiting for this for a long time.

[sc0pl355]

You got a goatee now?

[mrbit10]

yea the wife likes it.

[sc0pl355]

hehe awesome