Ulster Plantation

[MissBubbles007]

Open your mouth a little, you're mumbling too much!

[MissBubbles007]

We watched this in history lesson :L

[bouse23]

the ulster plantation like all similar plantations was a crime against humanity

[sinnfeinmurderers]

@ProvosAttYourDoor 1921 to 2021 Northern Ireland shall celebrate 100years

[animegalc4]

@sinnfeinmurderers If it still exists by then.

[polishranger]

love the way the guy talks. i just can't understand who he's talking about in 5:00

[gerryarmstrong82]

I'm nothing to do with the "DUP/UlsterScots historical society"

I've just read a few (critically acclaimed) impartial history books. Try A.T.Q. Stewart, Jonathan Bardon, Marianne Elliot or M. Perceval-Maxwell.

To claim this is revisionist is nonsense when any historian of the plantation has always made the same points.

(One other point: Why are people always so rude on you-tube?)

[gerryarmstrong82]

Your points have little to do with the plantation. Not sure what you're getting at? There have been a few RC unionists.

Officially segregation was attempted in the plantation scheme but in practice it didn't happen. "The great concealed factor in this whole 'British' plantation is the part played by the relatively undisturbed Irish population in building the towns, fortified bawns and planter castles, and in developing the resources of forests, rivers and loughs."- A.T.Q. Stewart.

[gerryarmstrong82]

The penal laws did not come into place until almost a century after the plantation. It amazes me how little Irish nationalists actually know about Irish history.

[gerryarmstrong82]

Read a few history books...

"On the whole the Irish remained in occupation of the land."- Marianne Elliott.

"Ulster was then thinly inhabited and provided ample room for colonisation.."- D.A. Chart.

Some "native Irish" (sic) in the more heavily populated areas were displaced.

However many Protestant immigrants settled on uninhabited, unexploited land. They often built up their farms out of the semi-wilderness of Ulsters bogs, marshes and woodland.

[sky37blue]

I have read a few history books in my time.

Perhaps we should examine the reasons why the land was 'thinly inhabited'.........

[sky37blue]

"how did they manage to seize the entire Province of Ulster, dispossess the native landowners and their followers, and give all the best land to newcomers? My research in recent years has begun to come up with some of the answers for this. In particular, you have the prevalence of martial law: in England, martial law is always a reactionary measure - it is used once rebels have rebelled. From the middle of the 16th century in Ireland, martial law is rather different -

[sky37blue]

its pre-emptive. It was used by the Government from the 1550s onwards to target suspect groups, groups who would not embrace the growth of English Royal power." - Dr. David Edwards, Lecturer in Medieval History, University College Cork

[sky37blue]

ONeills forces themselves used scorched earth tactics in parts of the country during the Nine Years War but Chichester responds in kind and very, very effectively

[sky37blue]

- hes a very effective killer and theres no doubt that the depopulation of Ulster which occurs in the second part of the Nine Years War, hes one of the principal architects of that depopulation. Forced starvation, summary killings, driving people out of the Province either as refugees down south to the Pale or basically across the Channel to Scotland, definitely hes one of the principal personalities behind that

[gerryarmstrong82]

Who's the "he" you mention above?

Jonathan Bardon states that Ulster was severely under-populated throughout the 1500's even before the 9-years war.

There is no doubt that the scorched earth policies of the second half of the 16th century (by all sides- although possibly mostly by the English) made the de-population worse.

[gerryarmstrong82]

OK just noticed you meant Chichester. Yes Chichester did use such tactics in the 9-years war.

Why would displaced Gaelic Irish go to the Pale though?

I appreciate you have a considerable knowledge of the period and as such I would hope you'd admit that nothing is ever "black and white" in history?

As I said before many ordinary Protestant tenants settled on uninhabited land, often alongside RC tenants. The Protestant community has every right to be in Ulster.

[gerryarmstrong82]

OK possibly but these groups who were resistant to English Royal Power were unlikely to have been the ordinary Irish tenants.

Also the Gaelic lords in Antrim and Down often sided with the English against their traditional enemies in the west of Ulster.

The O'Neil before Hugh (Shane?) did a spot of scorched earth policy of his own in his time, often against the MacDonalds in Antrim.

[gerryarmstrong82]

He was playing it from a contemporary British point of view with that line as I think is obvious.

[tomtomftube]

So biased its unreal , If I buy a stolen car its still a stolen car!The reason he didnt include Antrim Down and Monaghan when carving up the Cake was Chichester left his castle in Carrickfergus murdered the people and burnt their crops and land when hunting Hugh O'Neill.So that land that was occupied by Irish was now settled by English/Scottish.Theres no problem with natural migration to Ireland from Britain but PLANTATION IS WRONG ! Even if Irish Chieftains were bad lords its Irish business

[billyysands]

i have never seen such a load of rubbish in my life and i cant understand half of what he is saying what bloody language is he speaking?

[gerryarmstrong82]

Antrim and Down were already settled (mainly by Scots). In 1606 thousands of Scots began settling in north Down, land described from 1575 onward as, "utterly disinhabited".

In 1607 Randall McDonald settled 300 Scots Protestant families in County Antrim. None of them displaced sitting Irish tenants.

Antrim and Down at the time were described by Camden as consisting mainly of, "woodlands, marsh and bogland".

[scotinulster]

@tomtomftube Was the Celtic invasion of Ireland wrong? or the Gaelic invasion of Scotland? How about the King James plantation of Jamestown that brought white settlers to America? If one is wrong, then all are wrong. The world's history is all about war, conflict and wrong doing... but we can't change these things. No-one has an unblemished history.

[allisonforfornsed]

@scotinulster Good point. I'm generally green and believe in the free Irish republic, but you have a good point. people, esp. celtic reconstructionists, glorify the taking or Ireland in the invasion stories, but moan and groan about the plantation of Ulster.

[napalm69]

Although scots have been settling in Ulster for thousands of years,the first mass plantation of scottish presbyterians was in 1606 when 10,000 scots settled in Antrim & Down on land owed by Hugh Montgomery & James Hamilton. The land was given to them by Con O'Neill in return for busting him outta jail!