When you're watching this video, you have the feeling that Seles was killing Graf, yet, in reality, remember that Graf had won the first set and had one break in the second! It was far from being an easy victory for Seles!!!
@vield1 It was a close match but Graf didn't have a break in the second, she was 10 up but then got down 31, and seles never lost her service after the first set. I remember it very clearly because I saw it tons of times. It's the last important match of Monica's real career. It's so sad we didn't get to watch more of these gripping encounters due to that crazy man
que grandes tenistas ,, la verdad que Seles era una de las mejores junto a la alemana en ese momento pero la fatalidad llegó en ese mismo año 1993 cuando la apuñalaron en su mejor momento en el cual la norte americana lo estaba ganando todo y era la MEJOR ..... congratulations Monica¡¡¡¡¡ estos partidos eran impresionantes y merece la pena verlos .. thanks . M.O.O Pontevedra
Monica's serve was really becoming a weapon in her evolving game here, her speed was also pretty good and had great defensive skills one of big difference in her game post stabbing..
Monika Seles je tako dobro igrala da bi sigurno oborila sve rekorde, ali je bolesni (dal' stvarno) Nemac nozem ubo u ledja u sred meca i tako joj prekinuo karijeru. Mozda je on to i po zadatku uradio, ali se o tome vrlo kratko pisalo a vise niko i ne spominje. Da je neki Srbin to uradio Nemici, verovatno bi nas istog dana bombardovali, uveli sankcije... i ko zna sta jos. Velika sramota i za Stefi Graf (koja je bila veliki teniser) i za sport uopste jer su se svi, maltene, ocutali za ovaj napad.
Monica won the biggest tournaments at a much faster rate than Graf ever did - Well, Graf did take longer to break through but once she did, the rate is about the same. First slam in 1987 and 8 by 1989 for Graf. First slam in 89 for Seles and 8 by 1993. And though Martina was a much older opponent, she was the dominant force on the tour when Graf broke through and was winning more slams at a comparable rate to Graf when Seles broke through. Both great; one much sinned against sadly.
Monica won the biggest tournaments at a much faster rate than Graf ever did - Well, Graf did take longer to break through but once she did, the rate is about the same. First slam in 1987 and 8 by 1989 for Graf. First slam in 89 for Seles and 8 by 1993. And though Martina was a much older opponent, she was the dominant force on the tour when Graf broke through and was winning more slams at a comparable rate to Graf when Seles broke through. Both great; one much sinned against sadly.
@poxmanful Monica Seles was not playing on tour in 1988 or else Seffi would not own the golden slam. The facts show that Steffi only dominated the slams BEFORE Seles came along and AFTER Seles was stabbed...while Monica was at her best Steffi was unable to dominate the slams. This is why it is illogical to call Steffi the best ever. Steffi is only in the conversation thanks to what Parche did with a knife, not because of what she did with a racket. She was great but certainly not the greatest.
@MissThingSings Graf had won 11 slams by the time of that incident and with those numbers alone, and irrespective of any what ifs, she would still merit consideration among the all time great women's tennis players. Even as things stand, she really shouldn't be considered the greatest because Navratilova's combined singles, doubles and mixed doubles tally easily eclipses her. So maybe the people who do are indifferent to doubles.
@CrimsonKing589051 even nav said graf was the best all round player regardless off the surface and BJK said graf is definately the greatest womens tennis player of all time .Chris Evert -LLoyd only said when I am asked who was the best womens tennis player in the last 25 years i say Steffi Graf without hesation ...Who am i to argue
@poxmanful But Graf herself said Navratilova was the greatest so what do you say that? Modesty? If so, could it be that older players too would want to extol a relatively new champion and prefer not to indulge in self flattery? Such endorsements by themselves don't establish much, but Navratilova has superior statistics to Graf, more titles and far better on the doubles circuit. More longevity too. I am a Graf fan more so than of Martina but Martina was the greatest.
@CrimsonKing589051 graf did say that at the time of her retirement i think to divert attention away from herself ....and we are talkin singles here and graf was the best singles player ever if you are going to bring mixed and doubles no doubt nav was best singles nly its a tight choice but i think steffi was best i believe for her ability to play n all surfaces and her ability to win the lost match nobody has ever done what she has on all surfaces
@poxmanful Even in singles, Navratilova has more titles overall. And it's not a difference of a handful but something like 60-odd. That is huge, considering her rival Evert was an all time great herself. I would say Graf was the most versatile singles players in the women's circuit and winning each slam at least four times is extraordinary but for best singles player, her case is arguable at best and certainly not closed...imo.
@CrimsonKing589051 graf won 4 more grand slams and each at least 4 time and was no 1 longer everyone knows that nav played longer than steffi and has more tournament wins but also take into account graf individual matches she was winning a lot of them so quick.Nav changed Womens tennis for sure with her athletesism and attacking play but i believe graf took it a step further
@poxmanful That happens with each new generation of greats. From Navratilova to Graf and then again Seles brought about changes. The Williams sisters made it even more power oriented. Influence is intangible and I'd find it hard to suggest Graf had a greater influence on the game than Navratilova. Yes, she won more slams. But a question: if Serena surpassed Martina's slam count, would you call her greater for that reason alone? Winning a lot more titles counts imo.
@CrimsonKing589051 you seem to be forgetting nav played a lot longer than graf and was well into her 30s when she retired of course she will have more wins.Graf still has a better win percentage than nav. Me personally ,I dont think serena should even be in the conversation. But thats me.
@poxmanful Who wouldn't have a better winning % and more slams if their chief rival was disabled while she was DOMINATING? What do you suppose Navratilova's win % would be if Evert had been removed from the game, only to come back a mere shadow of her former self? How many more slam titles would Navratilova have? And if we are talking quantity, Court has more slams than Graf does. Navratilova won 60 more titles while battling EVERT (not Coetzer!) and dominating doubles! It's not even close!
@MissThingSings hey just cuz seles was stabbed doesnt make graf shit Graf cant help what her fans do , was graf supposed to retire because seles got stabbed or should seles be given a no 1 for life ranking while ur at it free passage to every gs final for the next 25 years was it grafs fault that she stuffed her face with food and became fat and unfit as well.The way you are carrying on everything is grafs fault as she was shit .Why dont you wake the fuck up the year is 2012
@poxmanful That is also a tribute to her endurance, is it not? Is it not astonishing that she won a slam when she was nearly 34 and was runner up twice later in 1991 and 1994? You have to give it to her for longevity and especially considering she played through the era that saw the biggest change in racquet technology. Grand slam singles finalist at 38...Graf and Evert didn't give themselves the chance to emulate that.
@poxmanful It makes sense that Graf was number 1 longer...a stabbing occurred in Hamburg. Steffi wasn't more talented than Navratilova, she was more fortunate.
@poxmanful An attack in Hamburg made it possible for Steffi Graf to win each slam 4 times. It was not a lack of talent that prevented Navratilova from achieving this feat, it was competition. When you compete against a legendary all-time great for nearly 2 decades, without the benefit of having your path cleared by a lunatic, you win less. When your chief rival is removed from your path you win more...but less talent is required to do so. This is why Steffi's record is grossly inflated.
@MissThingSings her record is what it is and yea she won 22 grand slams and four of each say what you want about seles but she wasnt there , she could have competed in any of those slams but she was on her sofa stuffing her face with food . Did Seles really need to take 2.7 years to come back .You say grafs record is inflated yea maybe but its cause seles was to emo to get off her sofa and play her
@poxmanful You know, it's pretty vulgar to make such nasty remarks about a young woman who was viciously attacked and who also suffered with an eating disorder. Addictions are not easy to break...how long did it take Peter Graf to climb off of those models who were much younger and much more beautiful than Heidi? As Steffi is the spitting image of her mother, she had to be traumatized by such gorgeous women prowling around the estate.
@poxmanful To be fair, Hoffy, Monica didn't get cut by shaving...so before we make the comparison we need to get you stabbed by someone who obviously has no love for you. Is your mother available and can she afford a knife?
@poxmanful Thanks, Hoffy =) I am so glad to know that you like me...we all know what Graf fans are capable of doing to people they dislike, so I am doing cartwheels as I type this...
@poxmanful Well, before you start taking digs at Monica's physical appearance you might want to remember that Steffi has a few body parts that are not exactly in proper proportion. I'm not saying her nose is big, but I wouldn't be surprised if a circus trainer threw a few peanuts in her direction if she walked in a straight line...LOLOLOL
@poxmanful No, big nose is certainly not the best I can do...it's rather childish to resort to making fun of a persons physical appearance. I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy...many people would say that Steffi had the better figure and Monica had the better face...other people would point out that over time Monica's figure has improved dramatically, meanwhile Steffi remains stuck with that face. IMO, Steffi's character is much more flawed than her face.
@MissThingSings you know what kid,I do like you ,you are so funny , like its nearly 20 years sice seles was stabbed and both players retired but ur still all emo about it , but thats ok . I'm sure your a nice person having a bad day or something like that....smile be happy
@poxmanful Thank you, Hoffy...I find you and each of your personalities to be quite humorous, too =) I just wish you weren't so hypocritical...for example, you claim that I am still "all emotional" about an event that happened 20 years ago, yet here you are all over youtube fighting and debating the stabbing -under multiple usernames- with those of us who are more intelligent, informed and MUCH better looking =) No one lured you into the conversation, sweetheart...take responsibility and OWN it!
@poxmanful Lol ya dumb faggot, ya blocked me. You just proved how much of a coward you are. Man, that cum from your dad so should have went up your mums arse, so you wouldn't have been born. When you try to insult me on my channel, try a bit harder. Dumb bogan.
@poxmanful Yes, Steffi won 22 slams...a feat that was made possible by her #1 fan and a knife. Martina was not so fortunate as to have her chief rival leave the game, so her victories are legitimate. And if we are counting numbers, Margaret Court has 24 slam titles...so under no scenario is Steffi best ever.
@poxmanful It's not Steffi's fault that Monica got stabbed. It's Steffi's fault that she didn't show more class and humanity following the stabbing..but then again, her parents were little more than common trash IMO so it's hard to fault her. I have no doubt that if Steffi had been raised by people like Mr. and Mrs. Seles she would have been classy just like Monica. There would have been no on court cheating or tax evasion scandals..or young, beautiful models sneaking out of papa's bed LOLOL!
@MissThingSings common as that gypsy trash that sele's calls a family yea right.So what the hell was steffi supposed to have done ,be her personal slave and hand fed her all the slop she poured down her throat while she was milking ....ummmmm recuperating. Sorry but steffi had a life to get on with and tournaments to win. But dont worry bout seles she was able to shift her fat carcass off the sofa long enough to get another cake and smash it down her throat
@poxmanful If Monica sat on the sofa too long that's her business...I'm just grateful it wasn't the same sofa upon which those young models sat on Peter's lap.
@poxmanful I guess it's a matter of opinion as to whether or not the Seles family is trash. All I know is that they didn't evade taxes, they aren't felons or ex-cons, Monica was never penalized by the WTA for cheating, and Mr. Seles didn't publicy humiliate his wife by engaging in extramarital affairs...can't say those things about some of Monica's peers can we? LOLOL!!!
@poxmanful Steffi called Navratilova the best because it is true...it is one of the rare instances where Steffi showed any real class and honesty IMO.
@CrimsonKing589051 I absolutely agree that Steffi should be considered among the all-time greats, and I agree with you that she is not the best ever. Martina's accomplishments in singles, doubles and mixed is just too extraordinary. And, unlike today, in Martina's prime the very best singles player's also played doubles...so it was certainly no cake walk. That she achieved all of this while battling with the legendary Evert for nearly two decades makes it a closed case =)
@MissThingSings Yes, the fact that she did all the running against the already great Evert, came to eventually dominate her and endured for a really long time on the tour clinches it for me.
@poxmanful Um..not yet in her prime, Monica was dominating Tennis like it hadn't been dominated before..a lunatic stabbed her in the back in the name of Steffi Graf and went unpunished..Steffi spent 5 minutes at the hospital..the WTA was gutless and allowed the lunatic's goal to come to fruition..and you think not having a Wimbledon title is what bothers her? Graf fans, with few exceptions, are among the most ignorant, insensitive and morally deficient fans in sports. Absolutely astounding...
@MissThingSings god u are full of shit graf DID win 22 grand slams Graf Did spend 377 weeks at no 1 Graf IS the only player to win all 4 slams at least 4 time Graf IS widely regarded as the greatestest womens tennis player of ALL time those are the facts and cant be disputed
And I agree that Evert and Navratilova were greater than Graf. Good luck convincing Graf fanatics like Hoffenheim with that though :D...I am not even going to partake in that debate, it's just my opinion. :)
@CrimsonKing589051 Agreed =) Evert, Navratilova and Court are superior to Steffi. Chris and Martina won nearly as many slams as Steffi, and 50 plus more titles, without the gift of having their chief rival out of the game. Not only that, Martina and Court dominated doubles and Mixed at the height of their singles success, and in those days the very best singles players also played doubles, so the competition was excellent. This requires far more talent than Steffi had, although she was superb.
Yes, I wanted to say what poxman did too. These matches were nowhere near one sided enough to conclude one player would have dominated the other. And Monica also owned the rivalry at the same point that Graf began to lose to players she used to beat before, like Navratilova or Sabatini. She was not at her best. We are simply not in a position today to objectively judge just how the rivalry would have turned out and it's a shame that a fanatic lunatic robbed the tennis world.
@CrimsonKing589051 It doesn't matter if Monica dominated the head to head, although over time I am sure she would have, it matters that she was dominating the MAJORS at the time of the stabbing. I know that Graf fans love to minimize the stabbing incident, stooping so low as to call it a minor wound that only required one stitch, but the FACT is that Monica was dominating the SLAMS before the stabbing and 1/2 of Steffi's slams were won AFTER the stabbing. No way is Steffi the best ever.
@MissThingSings I am just saying we have to examine the facts dispassionately. Steffi was in a slump from 1990, even before Seles's two golden years and lost to players she beat on both sides of that phase . Maybe, Monica could have become the better player. She certainly had the potential but her career was thrown off course by that lunatic and we'll never know. We also don't know just how Graf would have fared otherwise, so both ways it will remain a question mark.
@CrimsonKing589051 By the way, I did not intend to imply in my previous post that you were either a Graf fanatic, or someone who would minimize a vicious knife attack...my apologies if it appeared that way =)
Monica was one of the few woman in the game that owned steffi she had her literally on a string... the only thing more impressive than Monica laser shots and angles was her mind, her strongest part of her game..
@poxmanful Graf lead the head to head because Gunther Parche did with a knife what Steffi could not do with her racket...dethrone Monica Seles from the top of the tennis world. Just like Steffi took time to assert herself over the older, more experienced Evert and Navratilova, Seles would have asserted herself over Graf because she was superior. Everything Steffi accomplished after the stabbing is smeared with Parche's fingerprints. You don't like it because the truth hurts.
@MissThingSings then why was graf catching seles in the rankings she was going to be no1 again it was only a matter of time ..... and their head to head at the time of the stabbing had nothing to do with the stabbbing graf always lead her in their matches played the only thing seles did was show everbody how to milk a injury for all it was worth 2.7 yrs to comeback from a minor stab wound is surely a sign of weakness and gutlessness . You dont like it because the truth hurts ?
@poxmanful Hoffy, no one gives a rats rear about rankings..Monica Seles won 3 of 4 slams in 91 and 92 (and the first slam in 93 before she was stabbed) so only delusional Graf fans believe the gap was closing. There was absolutely no doubt who the dominant player in the world was and it wasn't even close. Monica OWNED tennis and Steffi could not do anything about it. How refreshing it was to have a champion with class..one who paid her taxes and didn't receive penalties from the WTA for cheating
@MissThingSings oh yea seleswon three matches that could have gone either way and she was lucky to win them then got stabbed and spent nearly 3 years sitting on her ass getting fat .....some champ u have there loser .....BTW do tell what happened at wimby 92 .....seles was destroyed,Cmon bitch on about monica could grunt like a stck pig. BTW dont call me hoffy bitch
@poxmanful As we are all entitled to our opinions, you have every right to call Monica gutless and weak for "milking" a "minor" stab wound. Just like some people might call Steffi weak and gutless for being so distracted by the scandal resulting from her father stabbing young, beautiful models with his bratwurst. I can understand his lack of physical attraction to Heidi, but to publicly humiliate her that way was horrible. If only Steffi had parents like Mr. and Mrs. Seles...
This was developing into one of the all-time great rivalries. Tennis fans were robbed when Seles was stabbed. This final was incredible and shows both players at their best. I think without question Seles, by the time of her stabbing, had become better than Graf. This match really shows that -- Seles had the edge (on hard and clay courts, not grass). I think Graf didn't have anyone to really push her after Seles got stabbed. Maybe she could have met the challenge of Seles--who knows?
And Hoffenheim, you are always the first to say that Steffi leads Seles 10-5 despite 3 of those being wins over Seles when she was 15, yet you make the excuse of Graf being tied with Navratilova in head to head meetings because Navratilova has a few wins over a 15 year old Graf. It can only go one way.
I feel bad for people who can't just enjoy the matches between these two great champions and are so obsessed with who would have been the greatest. This is how i see it...Steffi was getting her best game back after slipping in '91 and '92, but Monica was also improving, especially in the serve department. Its hard to say who would have won more, but this match is a good example of what the rest of their matches would have been like; a beautiful display of powerful, thoughtful tennis.
@racketlord64 People can enjoy the matches and also engage in debate...debating is a big part of sports culture, although it does get out of hand sometimes. Most people can debate respectfully, but Hoffy stoops to personal attacks when presented with facts that don't support his delusional opinions. He's certainly not the first Graf fan to attack someone when things don't go the way he wants them to, and he won't be the last.
How great were these two. If they played now they would beat everyone. The best era in tennis was when Steffi, Mónica, Martina, Gabriela dominated the WTA with amazing matches like this.
Wow, they really brought out the best in each other. Their contrasting styles forced them to play out of their comfort zones (Graf coming over her backhand; Seles serving and volleying). We might have had a Navratilova-Evert style rivalry without the stabbing.
The main difference between before the stabbing and after the stabbing was Monica's movement and lack of fitness, her shots were as hard and accurate however her lack of stamina would be her downfall when matches went 3 sets and she had more unforced errors
Monica was so fit and so slim and so confident...Seles would never regain that level of play and fitness when she came back to the game but she will always be the REAL #1 in our hearts, Graf did not become #1 again because she was beating Seles, she became #1 again because Seles was assaulted by a Graf fan, Graf's 22 slams will always be contested by the tennis community and Seles fans because we all know that at least 10 of Graf 22 slams would have gone to Seles had the stabbing never happened
@italo36 Absolutely! A sicko Graf fan did with a knife what Steffi was not talented enough to do with her racket: dethrone Monica from the top of the women's game. She was not just dominant, she was more dominant than Graf had ever been. Half of Steffi's slam titles came after the stabbing..there is no way she would have so many slams otherwise, and there is no way Steffi is best ever. Court and Navratilova won MUCH more, and they did so with their chief rivals in the game! Steffi is overrated..
Seles struggled a lot against Steffi even on slow surfaces (clay, ReboundAce) even before the stabbing. On fast courts it was always Steffi, Steffi, Steffi. Pre- and post-stabbing.
this was one the few matches when they both played great- seles never got the chance to reach her peak-you can see from this match how her volleys & willingness to go in was improving-her aces and av 1st serve speed improving- everything on the up and that nutter messed up history and robbed us of some great matches- if you break down the head to head pre stabbing- 1989 3-0 to graf- 2 out 3 being close matches- this was seles first year on the tour at 15- from 1990-93 it was 4-3 in seles favour
@Hoffenheim08 The head to head stats are misleading because Steffi failed to reach the finals of slams as Monica was racking them up. Monica racked up slams MUCH faster than Steffi did...at one point Steffi had 11 slams to Monica's 7, but she had a WHOPPING 20 more slam appearances!! Not only that, Monica dominated the slams while her chief rival was at her best..Steffi only dominated slams before Monica came along and after she had been stabbed. It's clear that Seles was superior.
@MissThingSings i dontknow if u are having a go at hoffy or u mean what ur typing,but do you realize how close the majority of the matches between these 2 players were .Most of the matches could have gone either way. Graf was catching seles in the rankings at the time of thestabbing,What started of as a 51pt lead at the end of 1991 had dwindled to a mere 20 points at the time of the stabbing. Seles never cameon the court and owned graf thay had really tight closely fought battles
@poxmanful I do realize that they had close matches, what was not close at the time of the stabbing is who was dominating the slams. Monica was clearly the best player in the world and her record reflects that. At one point Monica had won 7 slams to Steffi's 11 with a whopping 20 fewer slam tournaments played. That tells the story...Monica won the biggest tournaments at a much faster rate than Graf ever did. That is superiority. Steffi was great but grossly overrated.
@MissThingSings overrated ......are you kidding graf lasted in the sport 17 years not one of her contempories has a winning h2h AGainst her she was no1 in the world for 186 straight and won most of her matches inside a hour you are calling are calling her overrated . I agree seles was no 1 at the time of the stabbing but graf wasnt her bitch ,graf had a winning H2h against her at all times and graf would always smash her at wimbledon ie.1992 that must have hurt she was smashed
Monica forehand was so on before she was stabbed especially late 91 until 93..she was still not near peak with a better serve every year she played on the tour..Love her constructing points with her angles and laser shots...
If yr theory about monica's return was true ( which anyone who knows the facts is not) then Monica would certainly have returned during the 94 season when Graf certainly was not dominating the game and lost the number one ranking to Sanchez.....Once again your arguments border on fantasy, your Steffi is everything fantasy land...
Love this video man Seles really hit out on her forehand and neutralized that wicked backhand slice of steffi's... If u compare this video to the 99 French semi u can see how her movement really hurt her in returning these low balls found her forehand not as good as post 93 Monica... Great highlights of the two dominant players of the late 80s to middle 90's miss them both
It is so cruel how one insane incident like the stabbing really stunted the evolution of the game at the top..Seles was still not near peak and she was beating a very good Graf here just like Graf evolved beyond Martina and Martina beyond Chris...Monica lost her really three peak years and I believe the next great players Hingis and davenport would have been even tougher with Monica not out of the sport..Being at the very top is an elite thing and when u remove the current top woman it left a h
All the numbers prove that Steffi was getting closer and closer again. Seles knew very well why she returned only when Steffi looked vulnerable due to the Graf Tax Scandal in summer 1995. Well, Monica miscalculated this time ...
You are a loser, Sissy Hoffie. And everyone on Youtube makes fun of you.....
And Seles was rail thin in early 1993, and Graf was a whiny unhappy complainer screaming "Schiese!" on court like a lunatic house frau when Seles killed her in Australia in 1993......
You are as cowardly as Steffi was and is......-0p9o
Honestly, I don't care to argue this anymore. Seles was superior to Graf pre-stabbing, and Graf was superior to Seles post stabbing. End of debate. My god, even steffi has admitted this.........let's move on.
"Grafgirl, McClernand1, McClernand2, LDVTennis, tenniscollector, oxiyss and several more....." -Hoffenheimer, admitting to all his screen names......how very very sad....what a pathetic loser.....
But to be honest, I don't hate Seles, I just give you my point about their rivalry. The thing that Seles was stabbed is not Graf's fault. She still played and played. Though by you, Seles was greater than Graf, Graf also was more greater than lots of player. We shouldn't look down anyone.
You also see Federe-Nadal rivalry. That's the clearest evidence which imitates Graf- Seles rivalry (right and left hand). Nadal df Fed lots of time, but you can not say that Nadal is greater than Fed, right?
Monica was too good and too consistant for Graf when the stabbing happened and the biggest difference was Monica's mental toughness and the more a match was grueling, the tougher she got, too bad, the world of tennis was deprived of a great rivalry when Monica was attacked and Seles would never be the same player again, physically or mentally
Yes, that's why she had more slams than Graf, leads the H2H against her, has a higher career winning percentage, has won several Wimbledons, still has so many endorsement contracts even today!
Oh, Martina was only 30! Wow, what age did Graf RETIRE? At 29! So Steffi beat 30 YO Martina and 33 YO Chris, when at the same age, Graf was already RETIRED!
Thanks for proving my point idiot!
Steffi was beating players who were OLDER than Graf when she retired!
At 19, did Seles win 7 slams, while Graf had only won 3?
And i hate to humiliate you, but Graf owns the most embarassing upset in Tennis History. She is only ONLY #1 player and defending Grand Slam champion to lose in the 1st round of a Grand Slam.....
@artisking1 You couldn't give us an example like that. For ex, at 16, hingis won 3 GL, while Seles at 16 just only 1. It doesn't mean that Hingis was greater than Seles or Steffi. And you can not be sure that if Seles didn't be stabbed, after 1993, Seles still played well. Because since 1997, tennis has become a powerful sport instead of a brilliant sport.
@K50B, or Hoffenheimer under another sissy screen name:
"Since 1997,tennis has become a powerful sport...."
Your argument makes NO SENSE.
Seles was the most powerful player of her era, more powerful than Graf. So by your own logic, she would be favored over the rest of the field. And you are conveniently ignoring the period of 1993-1995, where Seles would have been at her peak.
Graf had THREE YEARS to stop Seles. SHE FAILED. Facts are facts.
@artisking1 Why my arguement makes no sense? I didn't give everyone any predictions, but what you said, all were your subjective opinions, "where Seles would have been...". OK, let's see the French Open 1999 SF between Graf and Seles, Graf just come back after surfing heavy trauma, and she finally won that title after defeating 3rd, 2nd, 1st ranked player which including Seles while during that year, Seles had no problem. Besides, see Wiki, before 1993, Graf also defeated Seles 6/9 times. OMG!
A very fit and powerful Seles against the athletism of Graf, too bad the Seles stabbing stopped all that as their rivalry was getting more and more interesting.
Monica really being fin here moves so well to cover grads slice( which in itself was so underrated and was a weapon) later matches post stabbing steffi was able to dominate on the exchange of her backhand to Monica backhand due to Monica's decrease in mobility ...sad that we lost so many good matches between these two and that every match played after the stabbing really had a question mark beside it
Love how Seles let it show with her superb game and grunting how she can truly play unlike the bigW final when she held back and her game suffered as a result , not saying should would of won cause steffi played really well that year but we were all robbed of a great classic final between these two legends over that grunting fiasco ... Something so targeted and smelling of sportsmanship
Omg these fights about Seles and Graf need to stop. I grew up loving Monica Seles for her story and playing style, but also learned to respect Graf as well because she was such an amazing athlete and tennis artist. Both would have been awesome champions without the stabbing, Graf would have won some; Seles would have won some. Their matches would have been of the same quality as this one. Its a shame that a fan of Graf's took away what could have been the best rivalry ever in women's tennis
@racketlord64 No it's all FUN. You Tube's great. I have found that there are Seles fans and there ARE SELES FAN's. Likewise Graf fans. You know what's funny I actually like them both but am more of Chris Evert fan.
I also like stirring artsiking and his various aliases. He's such a retard....
@artisking1 I have another question for you. Was that you that yelled out a marriage proosal to Monica during her losing 1996 USO final to Graf ?!!!! Hahahahahahahaha must have put her off her game. What a turkey you are!
@artisking1 Yeah another thing my american retard friend - What's with the nitpicking on Graf's lack of backhand topspin versus the baseliners ? I doubt if it would have made any difference to the result in that classic '93 final. Monica was just too good and mental tough ON THE DAY (note cap letters).
@artisking1 and so when did call you a Liar ? If you are talking about when i asked you (4 times!!!) to provide a source of your comment re. Graf's statement after the '93 final loss. I DIDN'T CALL YOU A LIAR. So you get over it..
When you finally did provide a source, it I tried to thank you but no, you came back with some BS. You my paranoid friend are nothing more than a Seles arsekisser unable to be objective and reasonable.
Great, if that is how you feel, then F*CK off , Loser....LOL!
....honestly, YOU initiated this nonsense. I HAVE NEVER initiated a conversation with you, because I think you are an idiot, who is weak and can't admit when YOU ARE WRONG. You mocked/ challenged my opinions, YOU COULDN"T ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION (I had to answer it for you...), and then I proved everything I said.....and you STILL couldn't admit you were wrong.....Loser!
@artisking1 Yeah righto whatever you say. Relax, a very good qualified doctor has been paged and will visit you shortly where you can tell him all about it . BTW I ain't going anywhere. You Tube's fun! See ya round, my friend, Ahahahahahaha
@artisking1 Nah still here. Hey turkey, I thought you were leaving, " Great bye bye sissyr". Any other Seles propoganda you/kingwilbe ? going to feed us, Seles arsekisser ?
@artisking1 Methinks The United States Tennis Association needs to get a retractable roof. They should also re-name one of the courts after Monica. Do you have anything to say about that ? LOL LOL LOL
@artisking1 and so when did call you a Liar ? If you are talking about when i asked you (4 times!!!) to provide a source of your comment re. Graf's statement after the '93 final loss. I DIDN'T CALL YOU A LIAR. So you get over it..
When you finally did provide a source, it I tried to thank you but no, you came back with some BS. You my paranoid friend are nothing more than a Seles arsekisser unable to be objective and reasonable.
@artisking1 Ahahahahahahahaha that's a good one. And you do realise that you are an idiot who looks like a fool for dodging questions anytime someone takes you task on any comment you make on YT repeatedly over and over, right????? Get a life Retard...
@artisking1 you must be an old timer. It's been 20 odd years since i heard the word "Sissy". Is that the best you can do? LOL. .Ah well keep living in the past, moron. Vaya y pegue su cabeza en el vagabundo de Monica... A hahahahahahahahahaha
@artisking1 Can you bring back kingwilbe1 You are beginning to bore me. Just for the record how many alias do you have on You Tube, and for what purpose ?
@artisking1 Isn't You Tube fun ? I am coming to America. I will knock on your door. You answer and then "Pow" a tennis racquet is shoved right down your big mouth. I Say: "Take that brother may it serve you well !!!!" Hahahahahahahahaha
@artisking1 Yeah bring on kingwilbe. Hahahaha what a hypocrite. You warned me a long time ago about your germen friend's (a dedicated Graf fan) various allias on YT and yet you comeback with the same BS. Can't you (and he/she) make your points/propaganda with one username ?
@artisking1 Yeah were you aware that following her 1993 US Open win, Graf said the following: "There was one player missing and that was Monica. I hope she will soon be back". That's 5 months after Monica was stabbed. Therefore you and other Seles fans would be farking retards to say that Graf "ignored" Seles. Also I really would like to take a tennis racquet and shove it right down your throat. American schizo LOL LOL LOL
When you're watching this video, you have the feeling that Seles was killing Graf, yet, in reality, remember that Graf had won the first set and had one break in the second! It was far from being an easy victory for Seles!!!
vield1 5 days ago
@vield1 It was a close match but Graf didn't have a break in the second, she was 10 up but then got down 31, and seles never lost her service after the first set. I remember it very clearly because I saw it tons of times. It's the last important match of Monica's real career. It's so sad we didn't get to watch more of these gripping encounters due to that crazy man
pasqualeferraro84 2 hours ago
OMG. That forehand is bloody dangerous!
fire1202 1 week ago
¡¡¡ Monica impresionante una de las Grandes del tenis ¡¡¡
8sabu1982 2 weeks ago
que grandes tenistas ,, la verdad que Seles era una de las mejores junto a la alemana en ese momento pero la fatalidad llegó en ese mismo año 1993 cuando la apuñalaron en su mejor momento en el cual la norte americana lo estaba ganando todo y era la MEJOR ..... congratulations Monica¡¡¡¡¡ estos partidos eran impresionantes y merece la pena verlos .. thanks . M.O.O Pontevedra
8sabu1982 2 weeks ago
Hey language check to that idiot posting on here kids view these videos and I for one was disgusted when I read yr post take it somewhere
bryguy0111 2 weeks ago
Monica's serve was really becoming a weapon in her evolving game here, her speed was also pretty good and had great defensive skills one of big difference in her game post stabbing..
bryguy0111 3 weeks ago
Monika Seles je tako dobro igrala da bi sigurno oborila sve rekorde, ali je bolesni (dal' stvarno) Nemac nozem ubo u ledja u sred meca i tako joj prekinuo karijeru. Mozda je on to i po zadatku uradio, ali se o tome vrlo kratko pisalo a vise niko i ne spominje. Da je neki Srbin to uradio Nemici, verovatno bi nas istog dana bombardovali, uveli sankcije... i ko zna sta jos. Velika sramota i za Stefi Graf (koja je bila veliki teniser) i za sport uopste jer su se svi, maltene, ocutali za ovaj napad.
ljupka55 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Monica won the biggest tournaments at a much faster rate than Graf ever did - Well, Graf did take longer to break through but once she did, the rate is about the same. First slam in 1987 and 8 by 1989 for Graf. First slam in 89 for Seles and 8 by 1993. And though Martina was a much older opponent, she was the dominant force on the tour when Graf broke through and was winning more slams at a comparable rate to Graf when Seles broke through. Both great; one much sinned against sadly.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
Monica won the biggest tournaments at a much faster rate than Graf ever did - Well, Graf did take longer to break through but once she did, the rate is about the same. First slam in 1987 and 8 by 1989 for Graf. First slam in 89 for Seles and 8 by 1993. And though Martina was a much older opponent, she was the dominant force on the tour when Graf broke through and was winning more slams at a comparable rate to Graf when Seles broke through. Both great; one much sinned against sadly.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 graf won a golden slam in 1988 you cant get faster than that and monicas missing wimbledon title probably stiil bugs her
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Monica Seles was not playing on tour in 1988 or else Seffi would not own the golden slam. The facts show that Steffi only dominated the slams BEFORE Seles came along and AFTER Seles was stabbed...while Monica was at her best Steffi was unable to dominate the slams. This is why it is illogical to call Steffi the best ever. Steffi is only in the conversation thanks to what Parche did with a knife, not because of what she did with a racket. She was great but certainly not the greatest.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings Graf had won 11 slams by the time of that incident and with those numbers alone, and irrespective of any what ifs, she would still merit consideration among the all time great women's tennis players. Even as things stand, she really shouldn't be considered the greatest because Navratilova's combined singles, doubles and mixed doubles tally easily eclipses her. So maybe the people who do are indifferent to doubles.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 even nav said graf was the best all round player regardless off the surface and BJK said graf is definately the greatest womens tennis player of all time .Chris Evert -LLoyd only said when I am asked who was the best womens tennis player in the last 25 years i say Steffi Graf without hesation ...Who am i to argue
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful But Graf herself said Navratilova was the greatest so what do you say that? Modesty? If so, could it be that older players too would want to extol a relatively new champion and prefer not to indulge in self flattery? Such endorsements by themselves don't establish much, but Navratilova has superior statistics to Graf, more titles and far better on the doubles circuit. More longevity too. I am a Graf fan more so than of Martina but Martina was the greatest.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 graf did say that at the time of her retirement i think to divert attention away from herself ....and we are talkin singles here and graf was the best singles player ever if you are going to bring mixed and doubles no doubt nav was best singles nly its a tight choice but i think steffi was best i believe for her ability to play n all surfaces and her ability to win the lost match nobody has ever done what she has on all surfaces
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Even in singles, Navratilova has more titles overall. And it's not a difference of a handful but something like 60-odd. That is huge, considering her rival Evert was an all time great herself. I would say Graf was the most versatile singles players in the women's circuit and winning each slam at least four times is extraordinary but for best singles player, her case is arguable at best and certainly not closed...imo.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 graf won 4 more grand slams and each at least 4 time and was no 1 longer everyone knows that nav played longer than steffi and has more tournament wins but also take into account graf individual matches she was winning a lot of them so quick.Nav changed Womens tennis for sure with her athletesism and attacking play but i believe graf took it a step further
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful That happens with each new generation of greats. From Navratilova to Graf and then again Seles brought about changes. The Williams sisters made it even more power oriented. Influence is intangible and I'd find it hard to suggest Graf had a greater influence on the game than Navratilova. Yes, she won more slams. But a question: if Serena surpassed Martina's slam count, would you call her greater for that reason alone? Winning a lot more titles counts imo.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 you seem to be forgetting nav played a lot longer than graf and was well into her 30s when she retired of course she will have more wins.Graf still has a better win percentage than nav. Me personally ,I dont think serena should even be in the conversation. But thats me.
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Who wouldn't have a better winning % and more slams if their chief rival was disabled while she was DOMINATING? What do you suppose Navratilova's win % would be if Evert had been removed from the game, only to come back a mere shadow of her former self? How many more slam titles would Navratilova have? And if we are talking quantity, Court has more slams than Graf does. Navratilova won 60 more titles while battling EVERT (not Coetzer!) and dominating doubles! It's not even close!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings hey just cuz seles was stabbed doesnt make graf shit Graf cant help what her fans do , was graf supposed to retire because seles got stabbed or should seles be given a no 1 for life ranking while ur at it free passage to every gs final for the next 25 years was it grafs fault that she stuffed her face with food and became fat and unfit as well.The way you are carrying on everything is grafs fault as she was shit .Why dont you wake the fuck up the year is 2012
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful That is also a tribute to her endurance, is it not? Is it not astonishing that she won a slam when she was nearly 34 and was runner up twice later in 1991 and 1994? You have to give it to her for longevity and especially considering she played through the era that saw the biggest change in racquet technology. Grand slam singles finalist at 38...Graf and Evert didn't give themselves the chance to emulate that.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@poxmanful It makes sense that Graf was number 1 longer...a stabbing occurred in Hamburg. Steffi wasn't more talented than Navratilova, she was more fortunate.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@poxmanful An attack in Hamburg made it possible for Steffi Graf to win each slam 4 times. It was not a lack of talent that prevented Navratilova from achieving this feat, it was competition. When you compete against a legendary all-time great for nearly 2 decades, without the benefit of having your path cleared by a lunatic, you win less. When your chief rival is removed from your path you win more...but less talent is required to do so. This is why Steffi's record is grossly inflated.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings her record is what it is and yea she won 22 grand slams and four of each say what you want about seles but she wasnt there , she could have competed in any of those slams but she was on her sofa stuffing her face with food . Did Seles really need to take 2.7 years to come back .You say grafs record is inflated yea maybe but its cause seles was to emo to get off her sofa and play her
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful You know, it's pretty vulgar to make such nasty remarks about a young woman who was viciously attacked and who also suffered with an eating disorder. Addictions are not easy to break...how long did it take Peter Graf to climb off of those models who were much younger and much more beautiful than Heidi? As Steffi is the spitting image of her mother, she had to be traumatized by such gorgeous women prowling around the estate.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings hardly a viscious attack ....i've had bigger shaving cuts but i didnt sit on the sofa smashing food into my face
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful To be fair, Hoffy, Monica didn't get cut by shaving...so before we make the comparison we need to get you stabbed by someone who obviously has no love for you. Is your mother available and can she afford a knife?
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings dont call me hoffy asshole . LOL you are such a funny kid i think i like you
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Thanks, Hoffy =) I am so glad to know that you like me...we all know what Graf fans are capable of doing to people they dislike, so I am doing cartwheels as I type this...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings at least steffi hasnt got a huge fat ass like seles hey
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Well, before you start taking digs at Monica's physical appearance you might want to remember that Steffi has a few body parts that are not exactly in proper proportion. I'm not saying her nose is big, but I wouldn't be surprised if a circus trainer threw a few peanuts in her direction if she walked in a straight line...LOLOLOL
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@poxmanful cmon big nose is that the best u can do ....look at the rest of steffi's body then compare it to sele's huge fat ass huge difference
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful No, big nose is certainly not the best I can do...it's rather childish to resort to making fun of a persons physical appearance. I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy...many people would say that Steffi had the better figure and Monica had the better face...other people would point out that over time Monica's figure has improved dramatically, meanwhile Steffi remains stuck with that face. IMO, Steffi's character is much more flawed than her face.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings you know what kid,I do like you ,you are so funny , like its nearly 20 years sice seles was stabbed and both players retired but ur still all emo about it , but thats ok . I'm sure your a nice person having a bad day or something like that....smile be happy
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Thank you, Hoffy...I find you and each of your personalities to be quite humorous, too =) I just wish you weren't so hypocritical...for example, you claim that I am still "all emotional" about an event that happened 20 years ago, yet here you are all over youtube fighting and debating the stabbing -under multiple usernames- with those of us who are more intelligent, informed and MUCH better looking =) No one lured you into the conversation, sweetheart...take responsibility and OWN it!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings OMG do i really sound like hoffy /wrist
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful You sound like Hoffy and no doubt look like Hoffy...which is quite unfortunate lol
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@poxmanful Lol ya dumb faggot, ya blocked me. You just proved how much of a coward you are. Man, that cum from your dad so should have went up your mums arse, so you wouldn't have been born. When you try to insult me on my channel, try a bit harder. Dumb bogan.
TH3JOKER666 1 month ago
@poxmanful Yes, Steffi won 22 slams...a feat that was made possible by her #1 fan and a knife. Martina was not so fortunate as to have her chief rival leave the game, so her victories are legitimate. And if we are counting numbers, Margaret Court has 24 slam titles...so under no scenario is Steffi best ever.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings yea and seles has only 9 i spose thats grafs fault as well
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful It's not Steffi's fault that Monica got stabbed. It's Steffi's fault that she didn't show more class and humanity following the stabbing..but then again, her parents were little more than common trash IMO so it's hard to fault her. I have no doubt that if Steffi had been raised by people like Mr. and Mrs. Seles she would have been classy just like Monica. There would have been no on court cheating or tax evasion scandals..or young, beautiful models sneaking out of papa's bed LOLOL!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings common as that gypsy trash that sele's calls a family yea right.So what the hell was steffi supposed to have done ,be her personal slave and hand fed her all the slop she poured down her throat while she was milking ....ummmmm recuperating. Sorry but steffi had a life to get on with and tournaments to win. But dont worry bout seles she was able to shift her fat carcass off the sofa long enough to get another cake and smash it down her throat
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful If Monica sat on the sofa too long that's her business...I'm just grateful it wasn't the same sofa upon which those young models sat on Peter's lap.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@poxmanful I guess it's a matter of opinion as to whether or not the Seles family is trash. All I know is that they didn't evade taxes, they aren't felons or ex-cons, Monica was never penalized by the WTA for cheating, and Mr. Seles didn't publicy humiliate his wife by engaging in extramarital affairs...can't say those things about some of Monica's peers can we? LOLOL!!!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@poxmanful Steffi called Navratilova the best because it is true...it is one of the rare instances where Steffi showed any real class and honesty IMO.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 I absolutely agree that Steffi should be considered among the all-time greats, and I agree with you that she is not the best ever. Martina's accomplishments in singles, doubles and mixed is just too extraordinary. And, unlike today, in Martina's prime the very best singles player's also played doubles...so it was certainly no cake walk. That she achieved all of this while battling with the legendary Evert for nearly two decades makes it a closed case =)
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings Yes, the fact that she did all the running against the already great Evert, came to eventually dominate her and endured for a really long time on the tour clinches it for me.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@MissThingSings yea sure graf was red hot in 88 seles was a kid im sure she would have beaten steffi
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Um..not yet in her prime, Monica was dominating Tennis like it hadn't been dominated before..a lunatic stabbed her in the back in the name of Steffi Graf and went unpunished..Steffi spent 5 minutes at the hospital..the WTA was gutless and allowed the lunatic's goal to come to fruition..and you think not having a Wimbledon title is what bothers her? Graf fans, with few exceptions, are among the most ignorant, insensitive and morally deficient fans in sports. Absolutely astounding...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings god u are full of shit graf DID win 22 grand slams Graf Did spend 377 weeks at no 1 Graf IS the only player to win all 4 slams at least 4 time Graf IS widely regarded as the greatestest womens tennis player of ALL time those are the facts and cant be disputed
poxmanful 1 month ago
And I agree that Evert and Navratilova were greater than Graf. Good luck convincing Graf fanatics like Hoffenheim with that though :D...I am not even going to partake in that debate, it's just my opinion. :)
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 Agreed =) Evert, Navratilova and Court are superior to Steffi. Chris and Martina won nearly as many slams as Steffi, and 50 plus more titles, without the gift of having their chief rival out of the game. Not only that, Martina and Court dominated doubles and Mixed at the height of their singles success, and in those days the very best singles players also played doubles, so the competition was excellent. This requires far more talent than Steffi had, although she was superb.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
Yes, I wanted to say what poxman did too. These matches were nowhere near one sided enough to conclude one player would have dominated the other. And Monica also owned the rivalry at the same point that Graf began to lose to players she used to beat before, like Navratilova or Sabatini. She was not at her best. We are simply not in a position today to objectively judge just how the rivalry would have turned out and it's a shame that a fanatic lunatic robbed the tennis world.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 It doesn't matter if Monica dominated the head to head, although over time I am sure she would have, it matters that she was dominating the MAJORS at the time of the stabbing. I know that Graf fans love to minimize the stabbing incident, stooping so low as to call it a minor wound that only required one stitch, but the FACT is that Monica was dominating the SLAMS before the stabbing and 1/2 of Steffi's slams were won AFTER the stabbing. No way is Steffi the best ever.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings I am just saying we have to examine the facts dispassionately. Steffi was in a slump from 1990, even before Seles's two golden years and lost to players she beat on both sides of that phase . Maybe, Monica could have become the better player. She certainly had the potential but her career was thrown off course by that lunatic and we'll never know. We also don't know just how Graf would have fared otherwise, so both ways it will remain a question mark.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
@CrimsonKing589051 By the way, I did not intend to imply in my previous post that you were either a Graf fanatic, or someone who would minimize a vicious knife attack...my apologies if it appeared that way =)
MissThingSings 1 month ago
Monica was one of the few woman in the game that owned steffi she had her literally on a string... the only thing more impressive than Monica laser shots and angles was her mind, her strongest part of her game..
bryguy0111 1 month ago
@bryguy0111 so why was their h2h 10 - 5 graf
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Graf lead the head to head because Gunther Parche did with a knife what Steffi could not do with her racket...dethrone Monica Seles from the top of the tennis world. Just like Steffi took time to assert herself over the older, more experienced Evert and Navratilova, Seles would have asserted herself over Graf because she was superior. Everything Steffi accomplished after the stabbing is smeared with Parche's fingerprints. You don't like it because the truth hurts.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings then why was graf catching seles in the rankings she was going to be no1 again it was only a matter of time ..... and their head to head at the time of the stabbing had nothing to do with the stabbbing graf always lead her in their matches played the only thing seles did was show everbody how to milk a injury for all it was worth 2.7 yrs to comeback from a minor stab wound is surely a sign of weakness and gutlessness . You dont like it because the truth hurts ?
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful Hoffy, no one gives a rats rear about rankings..Monica Seles won 3 of 4 slams in 91 and 92 (and the first slam in 93 before she was stabbed) so only delusional Graf fans believe the gap was closing. There was absolutely no doubt who the dominant player in the world was and it wasn't even close. Monica OWNED tennis and Steffi could not do anything about it. How refreshing it was to have a champion with class..one who paid her taxes and didn't receive penalties from the WTA for cheating
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings oh yea seleswon three matches that could have gone either way and she was lucky to win them then got stabbed and spent nearly 3 years sitting on her ass getting fat .....some champ u have there loser .....BTW do tell what happened at wimby 92 .....seles was destroyed,Cmon bitch on about monica could grunt like a stck pig. BTW dont call me hoffy bitch
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful As we are all entitled to our opinions, you have every right to call Monica gutless and weak for "milking" a "minor" stab wound. Just like some people might call Steffi weak and gutless for being so distracted by the scandal resulting from her father stabbing young, beautiful models with his bratwurst. I can understand his lack of physical attraction to Heidi, but to publicly humiliate her that way was horrible. If only Steffi had parents like Mr. and Mrs. Seles...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings LOL god ur funny .... thats like comparing steffis body to seles'S fat ass
poxmanful 1 month ago
This was developing into one of the all-time great rivalries. Tennis fans were robbed when Seles was stabbed. This final was incredible and shows both players at their best. I think without question Seles, by the time of her stabbing, had become better than Graf. This match really shows that -- Seles had the edge (on hard and clay courts, not grass). I think Graf didn't have anyone to really push her after Seles got stabbed. Maybe she could have met the challenge of Seles--who knows?
smashingthyme 1 month ago
And Hoffenheim, you are always the first to say that Steffi leads Seles 10-5 despite 3 of those being wins over Seles when she was 15, yet you make the excuse of Graf being tied with Navratilova in head to head meetings because Navratilova has a few wins over a 15 year old Graf. It can only go one way.
racketlord64 1 month ago
@racketlord64 i dont see why a players age comes into the equation.I am also quite sure a 15 year old Monica Seles was honored to play Steffi Graf
poxmanful 1 month ago
I feel bad for people who can't just enjoy the matches between these two great champions and are so obsessed with who would have been the greatest. This is how i see it...Steffi was getting her best game back after slipping in '91 and '92, but Monica was also improving, especially in the serve department. Its hard to say who would have won more, but this match is a good example of what the rest of their matches would have been like; a beautiful display of powerful, thoughtful tennis.
racketlord64 1 month ago
@racketlord64 People can enjoy the matches and also engage in debate...debating is a big part of sports culture, although it does get out of hand sometimes. Most people can debate respectfully, but Hoffy stoops to personal attacks when presented with facts that don't support his delusional opinions. He's certainly not the first Graf fan to attack someone when things don't go the way he wants them to, and he won't be the last.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings couldn't agree with you more
racketlord64 1 month ago
Definitely one of the best matches played between these two women....very high quality, both Monica and Steffi on top of their games....love it!
mncjeff 2 months ago
How great were these two. If they played now they would beat everyone. The best era in tennis was when Steffi, Mónica, Martina, Gabriela dominated the WTA with amazing matches like this.
jfec2011 2 months ago
Wow, they really brought out the best in each other. Their contrasting styles forced them to play out of their comfort zones (Graf coming over her backhand; Seles serving and volleying). We might have had a Navratilova-Evert style rivalry without the stabbing.
mmicklavzina 2 months ago 2
The main difference between before the stabbing and after the stabbing was Monica's movement and lack of fitness, her shots were as hard and accurate however her lack of stamina would be her downfall when matches went 3 sets and she had more unforced errors
italo36 2 months ago
Monica was so fit and so slim and so confident...Seles would never regain that level of play and fitness when she came back to the game but she will always be the REAL #1 in our hearts, Graf did not become #1 again because she was beating Seles, she became #1 again because Seles was assaulted by a Graf fan, Graf's 22 slams will always be contested by the tennis community and Seles fans because we all know that at least 10 of Graf 22 slams would have gone to Seles had the stabbing never happened
italo36 2 months ago
@italo36
Seles had eating disorder problems even before the stabbing. That is well documented. Just read Mewshaws book "Ladies of the Court".
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@italo36 Absolutely! A sicko Graf fan did with a knife what Steffi was not talented enough to do with her racket: dethrone Monica from the top of the women's game. She was not just dominant, she was more dominant than Graf had ever been. Half of Steffi's slam titles came after the stabbing..there is no way she would have so many slams otherwise, and there is no way Steffi is best ever. Court and Navratilova won MUCH more, and they did so with their chief rivals in the game! Steffi is overrated..
MissThingSings 2 months ago
Seles struggled a lot against Steffi even on slow surfaces (clay, ReboundAce) even before the stabbing. On fast courts it was always Steffi, Steffi, Steffi. Pre- and post-stabbing.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
this was one the few matches when they both played great- seles never got the chance to reach her peak-you can see from this match how her volleys & willingness to go in was improving-her aces and av 1st serve speed improving- everything on the up and that nutter messed up history and robbed us of some great matches- if you break down the head to head pre stabbing- 1989 3-0 to graf- 2 out 3 being close matches- this was seles first year on the tour at 15- from 1990-93 it was 4-3 in seles favour
MsJoe29 2 months ago
@MsJoe29
How do you explain that Seles won 94 % of her matches between May 1991 and April 1992 but only 92 % between May 1992 and the stabbing in April 1993?
The facts don't show an improvement here.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 The head to head stats are misleading because Steffi failed to reach the finals of slams as Monica was racking them up. Monica racked up slams MUCH faster than Steffi did...at one point Steffi had 11 slams to Monica's 7, but she had a WHOPPING 20 more slam appearances!! Not only that, Monica dominated the slams while her chief rival was at her best..Steffi only dominated slams before Monica came along and after she had been stabbed. It's clear that Seles was superior.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings i dontknow if u are having a go at hoffy or u mean what ur typing,but do you realize how close the majority of the matches between these 2 players were .Most of the matches could have gone either way. Graf was catching seles in the rankings at the time of thestabbing,What started of as a 51pt lead at the end of 1991 had dwindled to a mere 20 points at the time of the stabbing. Seles never cameon the court and owned graf thay had really tight closely fought battles
poxmanful 1 month ago
@poxmanful I do realize that they had close matches, what was not close at the time of the stabbing is who was dominating the slams. Monica was clearly the best player in the world and her record reflects that. At one point Monica had won 7 slams to Steffi's 11 with a whopping 20 fewer slam tournaments played. That tells the story...Monica won the biggest tournaments at a much faster rate than Graf ever did. That is superiority. Steffi was great but grossly overrated.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings overrated ......are you kidding graf lasted in the sport 17 years not one of her contempories has a winning h2h AGainst her she was no1 in the world for 186 straight and won most of her matches inside a hour you are calling are calling her overrated . I agree seles was no 1 at the time of the stabbing but graf wasnt her bitch ,graf had a winning H2h against her at all times and graf would always smash her at wimbledon ie.1992 that must have hurt she was smashed
poxmanful 1 month ago
Monica forehand was so on before she was stabbed especially late 91 until 93..she was still not near peak with a better serve every year she played on the tour..Love her constructing points with her angles and laser shots...
bryguy0111 2 months ago
@bryguy0111
She was already on her way down when she was stabbed.
She had only a 92 % winning record in the 12 months before the stabbing. But was at 94 % in the 12 months before that.
92 % is worse than 94 % even in the book of a fanatical Selesian, isn't?
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 You are so good with math...you should have helped Steffi with her taxes...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
If yr theory about monica's return was true ( which anyone who knows the facts is not) then Monica would certainly have returned during the 94 season when Graf certainly was not dominating the game and lost the number one ranking to Sanchez.....Once again your arguments border on fantasy, your Steffi is everything fantasy land...
bryguy0111 3 months ago
Love this video man Seles really hit out on her forehand and neutralized that wicked backhand slice of steffi's... If u compare this video to the 99 French semi u can see how her movement really hurt her in returning these low balls found her forehand not as good as post 93 Monica... Great highlights of the two dominant players of the late 80s to middle 90's miss them both
bryguy0111 3 months ago
It is so cruel how one insane incident like the stabbing really stunted the evolution of the game at the top..Seles was still not near peak and she was beating a very good Graf here just like Graf evolved beyond Martina and Martina beyond Chris...Monica lost her really three peak years and I believe the next great players Hingis and davenport would have been even tougher with Monica not out of the sport..Being at the very top is an elite thing and when u remove the current top woman it left a h
bryguy0111 3 months ago
@bryguy0111
Seles had peaked already. She was getting fat.
All the numbers prove that Steffi was getting closer and closer again. Seles knew very well why she returned only when Steffi looked vulnerable due to the Graf Tax Scandal in summer 1995. Well, Monica miscalculated this time ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
You are a loser, Sissy Hoffie. And everyone on Youtube makes fun of you.....
And Seles was rail thin in early 1993, and Graf was a whiny unhappy complainer screaming "Schiese!" on court like a lunatic house frau when Seles killed her in Australia in 1993......
You are as cowardly as Steffi was and is......-0p9o
artisking1 3 months ago
@artisking1
What is "Schiese" supposed to mean, faggie?
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hoffenheim08
"Grafgirl, McClernand1, McClernand2, LDVTennis, tenniscollector, oxiyss and several more....."
-Hoffenheimer, admitting to all his screen names......how very very sad....what a pathetic loser.....
NOW EVERYONE ON YOUTUBE, even other Graf fans, know what a COWARD and a loser you are.
Poor Steffi, she really does attract losers.
artisking1 3 months ago
Honestly, I don't care to argue this anymore. Seles was superior to Graf pre-stabbing, and Graf was superior to Seles post stabbing. End of debate. My god, even steffi has admitted this.........let's move on.
artisking1 3 months ago
@artisking1
Seles was so superior to Graf pre-stabbing that she lost most matches against Steffi, that was thumped with 60 61 and 62 61 ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hoffenheim08
"Grafgirl, McClernand1, McClernand2, LDVTennis, tenniscollector, oxiyss and several more....." -Hoffenheimer, admitting to all his screen names......how very very sad....what a pathetic loser.....
artisking1 3 months ago
But to be honest, I don't hate Seles, I just give you my point about their rivalry. The thing that Seles was stabbed is not Graf's fault. She still played and played. Though by you, Seles was greater than Graf, Graf also was more greater than lots of player. We shouldn't look down anyone.
K50B 3 months ago
You also see Federe-Nadal rivalry. That's the clearest evidence which imitates Graf- Seles rivalry (right and left hand). Nadal df Fed lots of time, but you can not say that Nadal is greater than Fed, right?
K50B 3 months ago
Monica was too good and too consistant for Graf when the stabbing happened and the biggest difference was Monica's mental toughness and the more a match was grueling, the tougher she got, too bad, the world of tennis was deprived of a great rivalry when Monica was attacked and Seles would never be the same player again, physically or mentally
italo36 3 months ago
@italo36
#1 Monica was so good and so consistent against Graf that she won 2 of her 5 matches before the stabbing (and 5 of 13 sets).
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
Seles won 8 slams and she was only 19 and 2 months!
MsJoe29 3 months ago
@MsJoe29
Graf won 21 slams and she was only 27 years and 2 months!
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
Seles,Djokovic,Ivanovic,Jankovic......the serbians world No1....
11mrdja 4 months ago
wish todays womens grand slam finals would have this level and quality of play
Hilly30 4 months ago
Seles for sure was better than Graf.
championxeneixe 4 months ago 13
@championxeneixe
Yes, that's why she had more slams than Graf, leads the H2H against her, has a higher career winning percentage, has won several Wimbledons, still has so many endorsement contracts even today!
Oh, wait ...
Hoffenheim08 4 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
You're forgetting......Seles, at her 19th birthday, had won MORE THAN TWICE as many slams as Graf had at the same age.......
Seles, at 19 to the day, had won 7 slams.....Graf? 3...
..just 3........LOL, LOL, LOL
And lets not forget, all of Seles' success came at the expense of......Steffi Graf. Who did Graf beat to become number one?
OH, 33 year old Martina Nav and 35 year old Chris Evert.....
PLease.
artisking1 4 months ago
@artisking1
When Graf became #1 Navratilova was 30 years old.
Same Navratilova who in her mid-30s beat # Seles three times ...
Hoffenheim08 4 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Oh, Martina was only 30! Wow, what age did Graf RETIRE? At 29! So Steffi beat 30 YO Martina and 33 YO Chris, when at the same age, Graf was already RETIRED!
Thanks for proving my point idiot!
Steffi was beating players who were OLDER than Graf when she retired!
LOL, LOL, LOl.........
artisking1 4 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 heheheh Graf is a lucky one,man...you know what I try to say....(some german motherfu@ker help her....)
championxeneixe 4 months ago
@championxeneixe
100% Agreed......this match really shows how frustrated Steffi was by Seles. Simply overpowered...
....that backhand was nothing to Monica.
artisking1 4 months ago
@artisking1
Yes, that's why the 10 sets before that matches ended 64, 63, 75, 67, 63, 26, 63, 810, 62 and 61 in Steffi's favour.
Against #1 Seles ...
Seles holds a record that most probably will never be broken - the worst H2H of a #1 player against her main opponent.
Ouch, facts are a bitch!
Hoffenheim08 4 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Answer the question Sissy!
At 19, did Seles win 7 slams, while Graf had only won 3?
And i hate to humiliate you, but Graf owns the most embarassing upset in Tennis History. She is only ONLY #1 player and defending Grand Slam champion to lose in the 1st round of a Grand Slam.....
In HISTORY.
Sorry Sissy.
artisking1 4 months ago
@artisking1 You couldn't give us an example like that. For ex, at 16, hingis won 3 GL, while Seles at 16 just only 1. It doesn't mean that Hingis was greater than Seles or Steffi. And you can not be sure that if Seles didn't be stabbed, after 1993, Seles still played well. Because since 1997, tennis has become a powerful sport instead of a brilliant sport.
K50B 3 months ago
@K50B, or Hoffenheimer under another sissy screen name:
"Since 1997,tennis has become a powerful sport...."
Your argument makes NO SENSE.
Seles was the most powerful player of her era, more powerful than Graf. So by your own logic, she would be favored over the rest of the field. And you are conveniently ignoring the period of 1993-1995, where Seles would have been at her peak.
Graf had THREE YEARS to stop Seles. SHE FAILED. Facts are facts.
artisking1 3 months ago
@artisking1 Why my arguement makes no sense? I didn't give everyone any predictions, but what you said, all were your subjective opinions, "where Seles would have been...". OK, let's see the French Open 1999 SF between Graf and Seles, Graf just come back after surfing heavy trauma, and she finally won that title after defeating 3rd, 2nd, 1st ranked player which including Seles while during that year, Seles had no problem. Besides, see Wiki, before 1993, Graf also defeated Seles 6/9 times. OMG!
K50B 3 months ago
A very fit and powerful Seles against the athletism of Graf, too bad the Seles stabbing stopped all that as their rivalry was getting more and more interesting.
italo36 4 months ago
Thanks for posting. Nice seeing these two great women play.
OdinGreen1 4 months ago
Should say Monica forehand below as she easiest handed of course but think u got my point
bryguy0111 5 months ago
Monica really being fin here moves so well to cover grads slice( which in itself was so underrated and was a weapon) later matches post stabbing steffi was able to dominate on the exchange of her backhand to Monica backhand due to Monica's decrease in mobility ...sad that we lost so many good matches between these two and that every match played after the stabbing really had a question mark beside it
bryguy0111 5 months ago
Love how Seles let it show with her superb game and grunting how she can truly play unlike the bigW final when she held back and her game suffered as a result , not saying should would of won cause steffi played really well that year but we were all robbed of a great classic final between these two legends over that grunting fiasco ... Something so targeted and smelling of sportsmanship
bryguy0111 5 months ago
right, sure....thanks sissy!
artisking1 5 months ago
NWAY ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
tenniscollector 5 months ago
Omg these fights about Seles and Graf need to stop. I grew up loving Monica Seles for her story and playing style, but also learned to respect Graf as well because she was such an amazing athlete and tennis artist. Both would have been awesome champions without the stabbing, Graf would have won some; Seles would have won some. Their matches would have been of the same quality as this one. Its a shame that a fan of Graf's took away what could have been the best rivalry ever in women's tennis
racketlord64 5 months ago
@racketlord64 No it's all FUN. You Tube's great. I have found that there are Seles fans and there ARE SELES FAN's. Likewise Graf fans. You know what's funny I actually like them both but am more of Chris Evert fan.
I also like stirring artsiking and his various aliases. He's such a retard....
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Sure, right, whatever you say....... just stay calm Sissy......
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 I have another question for you. Was that you that yelled out a marriage proosal to Monica during her losing 1996 USO final to Graf ?!!!! Hahahahahahahaha must have put her off her game. What a turkey you are!
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Yeah, sure, great, really good comeback......anything else, dummy?
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Yeah another thing my american retard friend - What's with the nitpicking on Graf's lack of backhand topspin versus the baseliners ? I doubt if it would have made any difference to the result in that classic '93 final. Monica was just too good and mental tough ON THE DAY (note cap letters).
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@artisking1 You do realise don't you (?) that GRAF DID INDEED HAVE A TOPSPIN BACKHAND DRIVE but rarely had used it against another baseliner.
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
You do realize that you are an idiot who looks like a fool for being proven wrong repeatedly over and over, right?????
Look, Sissy, you called me liar, and I proved you wrong. Now your feelings are hurt and you won't let it go.
Tough shit Sissy, get over it.
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 and so when did call you a Liar ? If you are talking about when i asked you (4 times!!!) to provide a source of your comment re. Graf's statement after the '93 final loss. I DIDN'T CALL YOU A LIAR. So you get over it..
When you finally did provide a source, it I tried to thank you but no, you came back with some BS. You my paranoid friend are nothing more than a Seles arsekisser unable to be objective and reasonable.
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Great, if that is how you feel, then F*CK off , Loser....LOL!
....honestly, YOU initiated this nonsense. I HAVE NEVER initiated a conversation with you, because I think you are an idiot, who is weak and can't admit when YOU ARE WRONG. You mocked/ challenged my opinions, YOU COULDN"T ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION (I had to answer it for you...), and then I proved everything I said.....and you STILL couldn't admit you were wrong.....Loser!
That is the end.
Dummy, move on......
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Yeah righto whatever you say. Relax, a very good qualified doctor has been paged and will visit you shortly where you can tell him all about it . BTW I ain't going anywhere. You Tube's fun! See ya round, my friend, Ahahahahahaha
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Great, bye bye Sissy!
LOL, LOL, LOL.........
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Does that mean your alias kingwilbe is going to be aking over ? LOL LOL LOL
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Great comeback, loser! Really lame and totally makes no sense, LOL....well done, retard!
Now f*ck off Sissy!
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Nah still here. Hey turkey, I thought you were leaving, " Great bye bye sissyr". Any other Seles propoganda you/kingwilbe ? going to feed us, Seles arsekisser ?
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Sure, right, no problem, Sissy! Just stay calm, nitwit......everything is going ti be Okay........
artisking1 5 months ago
Comment removed
tenniscollector 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@artisking1 Methinks The United States Tennis Association needs to get a retractable roof. They should also re-name one of the courts after Monica. Do you have anything to say about that ? LOL LOL LOL
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Sure, right whatever you say Sissy....are we done? LOL.......
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Yes....And No. I wanna fight with kingwilbe1 Bring the other half on! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Sure, right, no problem, sissy crazy....just stay calm......everything is going to be ok.....
artisking1 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@artisking1 and so when did call you a Liar ? If you are talking about when i asked you (4 times!!!) to provide a source of your comment re. Graf's statement after the '93 final loss. I DIDN'T CALL YOU A LIAR. So you get over it..
When you finally did provide a source, it I tried to thank you but no, you came back with some BS. You my paranoid friend are nothing more than a Seles arsekisser unable to be objective and reasonable.
tenniscollector 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@artisking1 Ahahahahahahahaha that's a good one. And you do realise that you are an idiot who looks like a fool for dodging questions anytime someone takes you task on any comment you make on YT repeatedly over and over, right????? Get a life Retard...
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@artisking1 you must be an old timer. It's been 20 odd years since i heard the word "Sissy". Is that the best you can do? LOL. .Ah well keep living in the past, moron. Vaya y pegue su cabeza en el vagabundo de Monica... A hahahahahahahahahaha
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
You're welcome, you sad little Sissy!............LOL, LOL, LOL.......oh man, i love making fun of you.....
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Can you bring back kingwilbe1 You are beginning to bore me. Just for the record how many alias do you have on You Tube, and for what purpose ?
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Sure, right, whatever you say Sissy!
Oh man, I have obviously gotten into your head....poor silly Sissy!
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Isn't You Tube fun ? I am coming to America. I will knock on your door. You answer and then "Pow" a tennis racquet is shoved right down your big mouth. I Say: "Take that brother may it serve you well !!!!" Hahahahahahahahaha
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Sure, right, of course, my sad little Loser. That is very interesting~ another fascinating post from our retarded friend.
Anything else, dummy?
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Yeah bring on kingwilbe. Hahahaha what a hypocrite. You warned me a long time ago about your germen friend's (a dedicated Graf fan) various allias on YT and yet you comeback with the same BS. Can't you (and he/she) make your points/propaganda with one username ?
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Sure, right, whatever you say, my paranoid Asian nitwit........anything else?
artisking1 5 months ago
Comment removed
tenniscollector 5 months ago
Comment removed
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@artisking1 Yeah were you aware that following her 1993 US Open win, Graf said the following: "There was one player missing and that was Monica. I hope she will soon be back". That's 5 months after Monica was stabbed. Therefore you and other Seles fans would be farking retards to say that Graf "ignored" Seles. Also I really would like to take a tennis racquet and shove it right down your throat. American schizo LOL LOL LOL
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
AWWWWW, did I hurt your feelings, bitch? Tsk Tsk, Sissy, be nice, my little asian nitwit......
Are we done, Loser?
LOL, LOL, LOL......
artisking1 5 months ago
@artisking1 Yes we are. But what about kingwilbe? Bring him on Schizo !
tenniscollector 5 months ago
@tenniscollector
Great Sissy! And don't cry! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings!
LOL, LOL, LOl.......
artisking1 5 months ago