Autodesk Labs Project Photofly 2.0 Shooting Guidelines

[keavoncp]

Great technology, but its' CONSTANTLY crashing on my computer. I would like to call attention to this thread: forums.autodesk [dot] com/t5/Project-Photofly/2-1-cr­ashes-every-time/td-p/3132428

I am virtually unable to do run it at all on my computer. I successfully got one or two models to work after about 20 tries each, and no luck since then. Fixing that bug quickly would be super-duper awesome! Thanks!

[scottsh115]

@keavoncp Thanks for the feedback. That is one of the reasons we have technology previews.

[keavoncp]

Why do we have to upload the pictures to the cloud servers? Why can't we just compute it on our own computers?

[scottsh115]

@keavoncp Because your system does not have a fancy enough GPU, powerful enough CPU, and enough memory.

[keavoncp]

@scottsh115 ATI 6950 GPU, i7-2600-K, &16 GB of memory isn't good enough? I'd be happy to wait a few minutes to process it even if that were so. The only reason I'm saying this is because my internet is so slow that it takes 20 minutes to upload about 30 pictures. And the program also crashes a lot when uploading, so it seems that it would be easier to just compute it myself, even if it takes a little while to compute. Just an idea: having the cloud option, and the self compute option would rock!

[hamiltonafjr]

Awesome technology, crap video.

[scottsh115]

@hamiltonafjr I guess you can tell we are technologists and not movie producers.

[DeltaTronPrime]

Can you make this available for mac?

[scottsh115]

@DeltaTronPrime Project Photofly is only at the technology preview stage. The goal is to perfect the technology through feedback. So all we need to do is pick a platform where the audience is large enough for us to get feedback to guide the technology’s development. The number of users on the Windows platform is large enough. Should this technology ever make it as a production web service, then AutoCAD for the Mac would be a potential client.

[xEnder686x]

I wonder if you had a good camcorder, if you could just take a slow and steady video all the way around an object high and low, then use every fifth frame or so?

[scottsh115]

@xEnder686x We are working on making models from video instead of pictures. It's a different approach. You look at the changes frame by frame instead of picking every fifth frame as replacements for the photograph approach we use now.

[keavoncp]

2 people disliked this video because they thought it was too expensive... to buy a camera.

[scottsh115]

@keavoncp Project Photofly works with inexpensive consumer cameras.

[keavoncp]

@scottsh115 I know that. I was saying how two people crazily down rated this video. Lots of people make a joke related comment about why the number of dislikes is like that. I was also emphasizing how free it is.

[mysticdaniel]

can I download those mask files anywhere and the guys head? Looks amazing!!!

[scottsh115]

@mysticdaniel Yes. There are sample files on the getting started page on the Labs site.

[ghassanhassansutaih]

Can i export to 3ds max ?

[scottsh115]

@ghassanhassansutaih Yes. You can export an OBJ or FBX file of your 3D photo scene.

[halocritian]

i gave it a try with 60 pics of a simple teapot render shots and it failed to overlap them .

[scottsh115]

@halocritian Please zip up the pictures and send them to me.

[halocritian]

@scottsh115 i sent them to your facebook account

[Geo877]

Ahhh this is aweful - it's such a brilliant technology - but they've commisioned some morons to make a cheesy JML video. :~/

[scottsh115]

@Geo877 We are working to improve the technology, not win Academy Awards. :-)

[18thSoul]

Can someone tell me why i keep getting the error "...As the pictures don't appear to overlap. Images in a photo scene must overlap. Try capturing overlapping images then resubmit the scene." ? I have 69 images of 1 face, top, middle and bottom pictures.

thanks

[scottsh115]

@18thSoul Do the 69 pictures show the whole cube or are they tiled? Tiling is not what you want. You want shots that show the cube from different positions. Did you move the camera or move the cube? The background needs to remain fixed so you should move the camera.

[SpidMovie]

Wouldn't be great if we could just use our iPhone with app such PhotoSynth from Microsoft that is detecting automatically the edge of each photo and automatically overleap them...

Then PhotoFly would directly build the 3D model from it.... That would be real 3D photography :)

[scottsh115]

@SpidMovie Actually Photosynth does not need to be included in the equation. You would use your iPhone to snap some pictures, upload those pictures to the Project Photofly server, and get a 3D model back on your iPhone that could be viewed.

[SpidMovie]

@scottsh115 I know... I mean it would be cool to have ONE app only that can automatically detect snap pictures, combine them and create directly on the device a 3D model, without even going through the website server, etc... If Autodesk to release an app for iPhone that can handle of that, it would be a huge success :)

What I do like in PhotoSynth is the ability to automatically detect the overlapping points... It just makes it even easier. Move all the way around the subject and you're done.

[flappinghippo]

Loving the 90s instructional video music here

[scottsh115]

@flappinghippo Thanks. It's really about the instruction and not so much the music.

[AutodeskLabs]

The photos are pre-processed locally so the upload is about 2MB per photo, or about 10 seconds on a 1Mbps connection. For 30 photos that's about 5 minutes. Computation on the server begins after the 1st photo arrives and continues *in parallel* while the photos are uploading. The computation normally takes longer than the upload time. If it fails, already uploaded photos are never re-uploaded, even if you start on a different computer: it recognizes photos it already has on the server.

[OniLinkSword]

This is a great piece of software. The amount of detail that the models can have is amazing. I do have a suggestion though. Allow off cloud computing. I know the preview is just an editor and the hard work is taken place on the servers that you have. It's a great idea, but sometimes that's not always the best thing. If I have a large amount of photos, it takes a long time to upload from a 1 MB connection. If there's any problem I have to start over. Not reliable enough for most production.

[scottsh115]

@OniLinkSword Thank you for the thoughtful feedback. This is why we hold technology previews. We can consider your suggestions as we move forward. You would need a beefy computer and high-end graphics card to get the best results.

[OniLinkSword]

@scottsh115 Oh, no doubt. I'm not sure the best way of implementing non-cloud computing for an intensive program, but I know many production houses that have powerful server farms and / or workstations that could handle it. Perhaps you could make two versions of the software. One that's in a similar format now and one that can be used on a server with local networking. I'm glad you guys lets us in on these previews and help. It's a lot of fun. 

[TheThingyThings]

Should be very good with faces!

[ZezimaXL]

@IanLeoTV considering most of there products are a few thousand dollars, I'd say no :\

[Autodesk]

@ZezimaXL The technology preview is indeed free. Try it.

[tonycstech]

@Autodesk No wonder, it sucks.

Having your model be generated online on your machines limits the "edit ability" of final results.

I want to to able to tweak and adjust, instead of some online automated computer do it all for me.

After all, computers only as smart as people who program then. If that wasn't true, then programs would not have Version's 1.0, 1.2 etc

[madmax404]

Combining this with the image database of google street view would be quite interesting. Would take eons to process though. But maybe in a few years :)

[IanLeoTV]

Nice! Is it free? :D

[noobdles]

@IanLeoTV it is

[IanLeoTV]

@noobdles Thanks :D

[MySubscribeme]

Very helpful software !

[GTI8855]

Don't you think that reflective objects can be shooted with polarizing filter?

[2D3D2D]

@GTI8855 You should be able to shoot with a filter like a polarizer as it is not affecting anything but the color, reflections, and exposure, although you should be careful to not under expose and get blur and less detail. I would test first before shooting the final scene.

[clambaek]

AMAZING. WOW.

[scottsh115]

@clambaek You should try it for yourself. We just released Project Photofly 2.1 today.

[clankill3r]

the music, his sound of voice and the laptop used make this video look so old.

[scottsh115]

@clankill3r We were going for the TNT Classic Movies look. :-)

[FlumenSanctiViti]

Well, why not using a video instead of bunch of photos?

[scottsh115]

@FlumenSanctiViti We are working on that. The deltas from frame to frame can allow us to deduce the features.

[vermiformproductions]

@FlumenSanctiViti you want be able to get it crisp enough AND thats thousands of "images" given that you're recording at 30 frames per second.

[Varsher]

@FlumenSanctiViti

Technically you can do this now, while not from a video itself, you can simply take the video footage, convert all frames to an image format, then use all the images for the Photofly. Something like "Frame from AVI" will convert video frames to images. Google "Frame from AVI" and it's by BVRSoft.

[NBitWonder]

Sorry, your software is absolutely mindblowing, by the way. It's important to stress that point! :-)

[NBitWonder]

I have to agree with other posters. It's 2011, and there's really no good excuse for software to not be cross-platform anymore. Even if you're behind development-wise in versions of the software for Mac and Linux, I think your customers/fans/admirers will love you for trying.

[silviu13hd]

I AM SO SORRY ! accidentally i clicked on dislike button ! :| i tried then to click few times on LIKE button but i can't change my rating :) !

photofly is an amazing software and it deserves only appreciations ! xD

[remoran]

Put it on Mac and Linux. Awesome tech needs multiple access points.

[scottsh115]

@remoran You are only the second person to ask for Linux, but we do get many Mac requests.

[ColtTenney]

Can I take a video and convert to a JPEG sequence? Would that work or be any better, Autodesk?

[scottsh115]

@ColtTenney You can take about 40 stills from a video and upload them to the server. Just pick 40 frames that provide coverage at 10 degree angles.

[ColtTenney]

@scottsh115 So no more than 40? More the better right?

[scottsh115]

@ColtTenney Actual the more, the better is not always true. The more pictures you upload, the longer it takes - the more server memory you use. So if you have redundant pictures, you're not doing yourself nor our servers any favors.

[LakierosJordy]

As a video game artist, this is quite interesting to quickly make a rough (or not so rough) high poly mesh to bring into Zbrush.

[scottsh115]

@LakierosJordy Do a YouTube search for "HD: Generating game geometry with simple photographs" and watch the 4 videos.

[LakierosJordy]

@scottsh115 I did! Earlier today, that's what brought me here in the first place. Had my first tryouts with the software too earlier, and my first impressions are that it's simply amazing! Works much better than expected, I was pretty skeptical at first.

[soldierx40k]

Importing video should be easy from your point of view and it would be incredibly easy for us to make a video 3d model.  There would be thousands of 'pictures' with an almost equal time/distance separation between the two.

[scottsh115]

@soldierx40k You assume that the camera moves at the same speed. What if I dwell on the side and then film the top, bottom, or other side in the final seconds.

[soldierx40k]

@scottsh115 Doh... brain fart. Everything else still stands though

[Bruellkaefer]

Question: Would it help to use Stitch programs for those multi-photo compact cam "wide-angle" shots before handing them in to be processed? Or is it better to let photofly do the rendering to avoid optically impossible distortions in one picture?

[scottsh115]

@Bruellkaefer It is better to let Project Photofly do what it does. If you follow the shooting guidelines, it will turn out well.

[kleber1983]

anyone knows if I can export the 3d model as obj?

[scottsh115]

@kleber1983 Yes you can. Check out the Project Photofly category on labs.blogs.com.

[realAltermind]

quite interesting tech. however.. the 1980's music and image transitions are not helping LOL.

[scottsh115]

@realAltermind We're only trying to illustrate a point - how to take the pictures - not trying to win an Academy Award. :-)

[EngineOdonata]

This is great, however I don't see why it doesn't allow a video for the 3d generation rather having to take a crap load of photos.

[scottsh115]

@EngineOdonata We are considering video. To do so, we would have to pull out every Nth frame in such a way that we get shots at 10 degree increments all the way around the object. Much of this depends on the speed that the camera is moving as well as the path that was used in filming. There are many variables to consider.

[reyeror]

@scottsh115 Well, and if i record with my hd video camera all around the object, and extract the frames after in JPG format? i think it would be a great way to do it too. Maybe it's not neccesary all the frames, just the fair amount to create a good 3d mesh.

[scottsh115]

@reyeror Exactly. You can grab about 40 frames that provide coverage. You can imagine how that might be difficult for Photofly to do automatically.

[Zebonka]

Fuck 'the cloud', I really hate that term.

[scottsh115]

@Zebonka The cloud is just an industry recognized term that describes a set of computers that exist somewhere such that you don't care where they are located.

[Zebonka]

I didn't say "I don't understand the term". I said I hated it. I'm truly sick of hearing about it. It makes very little sense with this program; why the hell would one need to upload photos anywhere to do this kind of number crunching? I am dubious.

[scottsh115]

@Zebonka Your laptop or desktop probably does not have the CPU and GPU needed to compute the mesh quickly. I am not saying your average computer couldn't do it, just that it would take too long.

[Zebonka]

Hmmm; that's the thing. Some of us don't mind waiting!

[unbrokenjack]

@Zebonka It could take a week to compute on a normal home system, or even a high-end system. Autodesk has serious power at its disposal and they've let us make use of it with this software.

[Zebonka]

I'm dubious about that. What if I want a 3D model of my wang? I don't want photos of my dong on a cloud server.

I'm kidding about that, but I mean - who wants a bunch of photos of themselves being processed on someone else's computer? I'd be totally happy to leave my computer running for a week to process a model, I've seen longer render times...

[unbrokenjack]

@Zebonka It's not a personal computer that they're doing it on, it's a massive server. You could always read the Autodesk disclaimer though: "Don't upload confidential or private data".

[phozon2222]

i tried to use the this app with an iphone4 camera and it just didnt work.

wasnt able to get even close to to objects i photographed no matter how many pictures i took... kinda disappointing....

[scottsh115]

@phozon2222 It should work if you take enough pictures at 10 degree increments around the object.

[phozon2222]

ill try to use a dslr.... myb iphone4 images are to fuzzy in indoor situations for it @scottsh115

[netlorens]

I would love to see Photofly contributing to Bing's Read/Write World collaboration.

[MaverickOfTheSkies]

Wow this definitely made my day... AMAZING work guys! I can't imagine what we'll do as humans 25 years down the road! JAW dropping stuff guys, keep up the good work!

[scottsh115]

@MaverickOfTheSkies 25 years from now, in 2036, robots will do all of the work. Autodesk will obit AutoCAD 2033.

[musclebear2b]

Wouldn't it be great if those of us who use the software went out and made photo scenes of the worlds major tourist attractions and places of interest, and then the creators of the app collated the info (obviously with some compression) and released a smart phone app to rival google earth in that users could explore the buildings?

Also, I have a Nintendo 3DS - maybe a conversion could be added so that I could view my models in 3D on that too?

[Autodesk]

@musclebear2b Museums are definitely interested in this technology to catalog what they have inside. The exhibits change often.

[scottsh115]

@musclebear2b Once you export the Photo Scene as an OBJ, there are many converters out there to other game-friendly formats. The trick will be to see if the polygon count is too high.

[fixer11]

@musclebear2b I think you just got the ball rolling. Let's get out, and get 'er done. I think we need a facebook group to stay connected to one another. I'll bet back with you if I get that taken care of.

[AlexRaduGorcea]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the appeal in this. First of all, the model they provided seems to have more than 700,000 polygons, which is unusable in realtime application. Second, the accuracy of the conversion is far from good (jagged edges, smeared textures). I prefer modeling stuff by hand.

[scottsh115]

@AlexRaduGorcea Thank you for your feedback. For conducting a rapid energy analysis, the process might work better than for a real-time application. This is exactly why we conduct technology previews - so people can tell us things like this. A future update could include polygon reduction to make the geometry more suited for quick rendering.

[AlexRaduGorcea]

@scottsh115 While I agree it's a handy tool for prototyping, in this stage it's not quite fitted for animation, for example. I wonder if the retopo of such a model would take more than doing it by hand from scratch. One of the many "quirks" I've found in 3D scanning is texture quality. I understand that it's mostly dependent on the source image, but it won't be able to replace good old Photoshop in terms of texture creation and manipulation. May I ask what is the poly count on the statue model?

[scottsh115]

@AlexRaduGorcea The polygon count is 295,000 at the standard density. The mobile density would be less.

[unbrokenjack]

@AlexRaduGorcea Food for the ProOptimizer modifier, in my opinion!

[4216x]

Breathaking! Will start asap and make pics of the worlds p.o.i.

[scottsh115]

@4216x We are interested in how these turn out for you.

[InfiniteRealities]

Very cool!

[scottsh115]

@InfiniteRealities Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[catchmetrynot]

when one can download the package from Autodesk website?

[scottsh115]

@catchmetrynot This should be available for download next week.

[jeremiahjw]

I went to the labs section, but it doesn't seem to be available for download yet. When can it be downloaded?

[scottsh115]

@jeremiahjw It will be available for download next week.

[MyakaRu]

I might be wrong but maybe it is possible to shoot shiny objects using special photo filters that partially cancels reflections.

[scottsh115]

@MyakaRu That would be a great thing you could try and report back on. Having people try things our QA would not normally do is one of the benefits of a technology preview.

[ngarcia257]

MAC users?

[Autodesk]

@ngarcia257 Since Project Photofly is a web service, the bulk of the processing happens on the server. So all we would need to do is make a Photo Scene Editor that ran on the Mac. For a technology preview, we are interested in feedback. So as a first step we try to cast a net to an audience that is large enough to ensure we will get some feedback. So we started with PC users because that is a big audience. We could include Mac users in a future version of the technology preview.

[ngarcia257]

@Autodesk Awesome! Can't wait... Thanks for answering! BTW: Any chance i can save as a Maya project? I use Maya for 3D modeling and animation, would be cool if i can take that project to Maya! ... Thanks!

[vjmag]

i just tried to run photofly on a mac with wine, but during the upload it crashed... would be nice if it runs under wine...

[JourneyMaster]

@Autodesk Please do include mac users. I would love to have this available on my mac!

[lenoat702]

@JourneyMaster get a pc

[JourneyMaster]

@lenoat702 I probably should. I hate them, though.

[SuperEmoBros]

Next thing ya know, we'll be having a better Cinematic Mod for Half-Life 2 using this thing.

[scottsh115]

@SuperEmoBros This is why we do technology previews. Soon you will be able to try it and less us know if you were successful or not.

[SuperEmoBros]

@scottsh115 Sweet, hopefully I'll get it sometime

[SuperEmoBros]

@scottsh115 Well first there needs to be some sort of SMD importer/exporter plugin for this program since that's what HL2 uses for it's uncompiled model data.

[scottsh115]

@SuperEmoBros Project Photofly will let you save as OBJ. You can then use an OBJ to SMD converter.

[SuperEmoBros]

@scottsh115 Heh, I just did a Google search on an OBJ to SMD converter and I found one.

I guess the quality of models for some video games will be quite increased by this tool. This thing might change the face(pun intended since in this video, it shows a photo-to-model of a face)of modeling as we know it.

[jgrove1975]

@SuperEmoBros You can use a freeware modeling software called GIMP to convert from OBJ to SMD.

[fantim]

Nice