@SwedishGamerRetards and i am certain that you are setting a standard of excellence with whatever it is that you do.....you must be a heroic figure, i can tell....
@elrito1 At least I'm not an irrational, idealistic, pretentious douchebag who thinks he makes a difference by wearing a scarf. Put down the pipe and try to improve things that you can actually affect instead of being a hippie douche about WORLD HUNGER and EVIL CORPURASHUNS MAAAN.
@SwedishGamerRetards Thats all good and well mon.....We now know what you are not....However it would be nice to know, for future reference, what solutions you may have to solve some of the world problems that we face....Since you are such an expert in how not to do things....
The ideas are great. (The singing and "worship" aspects, not so much. Even non-threatening songs frightens the Faith community) The ideas are useful but people need to pull their heads out and look around(and most people will) but many people are addicted to convenience of modern culture and that is the obstacle.
Right, let's ask people to pretend to be what they aren't. You object to the songs? the undyed hair? the granola feel? WEll.... CLARITY NOW... these folks are the experts. Put down your judgements, It's okay... we can learn something here.
Permaculture isn't about these relationships and holding hands and forest farming. Permaculture is permanent agriculture, which seeks to establish the longest possible agricultural system needs next to no input in order to sustain it. That's all. So please explain why you guys have to push everyone away with your hippie like image?
The process of permaculture happens in nature when we don't tamper with it.
Now, the coined phrase "permaculture" is being turned into a hoola-hoop affair - perverted by beany capped dead-heads using mommy and daddy's money to take another "trip"
Stick with Masonoba Fukuoka, Bill Mollison, Geoff Lawton, David Holdgren and others who practice honestly what the preach - without all the mantra,
some one sent this video to me, and i did not know what it was about , but i was curious to watch it and after seeing it my opinion is that we have to work as one and learn from our experiences , love and protect nature and stop the wasteful money system , we need to sustain ourselves
this method combined with the zeitgeist movement would change the world :)
@pidromonz If you dont mind, but the Zeitgeist movement wants to chip the whole population and make us slaves to a computer system. I wouldn't put my hopes on any organisation to be honest. It is about the people, not fictional brainfarts like institutions and organisations.
When I lived in Albuquerque I collected bags of lawn clippings and mulched a patch behind my apartment on Eastern. In a couple of years I had turned a hard patch of ground into deep rich soil.
Yeah, I'm into the message, but what's with all the stoned talking heads? The mainstream is ready to have a conversation about permaculture, and we can at least set aside the pipe for a few minutes to meet them half way...
@claritynow The "mainstream" isn't even interested in growing tomatoes in their backyard, they'd rather buy it all at the store. It's "stoned talking heads" like these people who actually understand the need and are leading the way in this field.
@claritynow Yes and when they present it leading with the "ethics" & "spirituality" and not the pure efficiency and productivity of this type of system, people easily have trouble taking it seriously.
Hold on to what is good, Even if it's a handful of earth. Hold on to what you believe, Even if it's a tree that stands by itself. Hold on to what you must do, Even if it's a long way from here. Hold on to your life, Even if it's easier to let go. Hold on to my hand, Even if someday I'll be gone away from you. A Pueblo Indian Prayer
looks like americans are rediscovering the culture that once thrived in this beautiful paradise...may we reconnect with the truth!! :) thanks for the post
We have put together a site that showcases aspiring writers in sustainable agriculture. We are particulary interested in the theme of how spirituality (whatever that means to you) can inform sustainability.
Permaculture sounds perfect but I need some help. I'm looking for a study submitted to an accepted science journal, open for peer review, which shows how many FOOD calories (per year) ANY forest garden has produced and the size of that particular garden.
The question is, how large does the forest garden in that area need to be to sustain an average person?
@RodCornholio That is a fantastic Question. my guess is 2-3 acres of land. Wish I could point you to some peer review martial. Try Permies dot com?? The owner of the site has done work with scientists
@RodCornholio It is Very Fascinating. Please keep me posted about what you find out. I would love to hear what you have to say. It would be wonderful if you put up a video or even an article on a blog. Please do share what you find. Is there anything I can do to help you?
OK. My plan, in a nutshell, is to first research the basics (i.e. the layers, "guilds" etc. and what CAN grow in my general area based on current lists). Next will be a combination of A.) scouting out where B.) taking soil samples, talking to experts, etc. and (based on that) C.) eliminating what CAN'T grow. Finally, planning and execution. My aim is high calorie & nutritional value yields per acre/hectare with the least amount of labor/ energy.
Associating permaculture with false perceptual constructs is destructive to the goal of teaching common sense farming, spreading prejudice over solutions.
Teaching sustainable perennial gardening, building food forest infrastructure, spreading perennial bio-diversity is where permaculture gains its momentum.
I'm not a hippie. In fact I listen to classical music most of the time, don't smoke pot, don't drink too much alcohol, have only one girl friend and am working for an insurance company. But I do practise permaculture. Am I the right guy?
@Elvception1979 Skyscrapers, bureaucrats and the destructive forces of capitalism are my warzone. Swallow your pill and fight from outside if you wish. My place is here. :)
@Elvception1979 I don't throw stones but I fight were I stand. I grow my own vegetables in my front and back yard. I support predatory insects by creating habitats for them. My point of view is: Be a hippie if you want to. But you don't have to be a hippie to see that permaculture is the best design system for nearly every aspect of daily life. Transportation. Living. Growing food. Recycling s.c. waste. Permaculture is for everyone. Easily repeatable and scientifc sound.
Man, I sure love the idea of permaculture. The wedding of hard science and useful ancient knowledge to design living- and growing-spaces is fascinating to me. It's just a shame that the field seems to be totally saturated with folk-singin' moonbat morons that need to join hands and wombat-dance around a drum circle in celebration every time one of them figures out how to take a dump. And that dolt doing folk-song-sign-language made me wanna chew out my own eyes.
Religion or way of life??? Most of us can easily understand the benefit of sustianable living/permaculture making it in to a religion will turn a lot of people off. Your community looks great, I would sell it as a spiritual community using sustainable practices
Religion or way of life??? Most of us can easily understand the benefit of sustianable living/permaculture let's not making it in to a religion will turn a lot of people off. Your community looks great, I would sell it as a spiritual community using sustainable practices
That looks like a hard life. Corporations have brought about enhanced efiiciencies for many aspects of life, but have also brought us some serious ills. The trick is to not throw out the baby with the bath water. We need to regain our spiritual connection to each other & to the earth. A great revolution would remove de-humanizing incentives for corporate abuses, such as concentration of wealth & power, overworking us as slaves, and destruction of our environment. Deeper thinking is needed.
Pot smoking no. Dirty? yes. Got to get in the dirt. yup. At least for Permaculture gardening. But Permaculture extends far beyond gardening into all catagories of your life. Go google Bioneers and see what bunch of clear and sober people doing :) K.S.
Pot smoking no. Dirty? yes. Got to get in the dirt. yup. At least for Permaculture gardening. But Permaculture extends far beyond gardening into all categories of your life. Go google Bioneers and see what bunch of clear and sober people doing :) K.S.
i agree with thirteen fingers , all this hippie stuff has been done , it just clouds the issue im all for a different way of life but im no tree hugger
When did love [aka relationship] and happiness become spiritual mumbo jumbo? There are two types of people in this world - lovers and haters. These good people are trying to explain that to you. It's pretty clear where you stand, but I truly wish you would reconsider. It's ok to care about things...
Dear druwin. I would like to say something especially to you, since you seem to be very passionate about spirituality. Not everyone is ready to accept the "truth" about life.Not everyone is ready to put their huge EGO behind,i don't even think that most people are not even ready to RECOGNIZE their own ego. Your level of consciousness is totally different from the rest. Permaculture SHOULD NOT be directly linked to anything spiritual. The spirit will follow mother nature..Not by words. By nature.
Awsome I was looking for a definition of permaculture I love the variety. Go Positive message. I'm sure others will realise they dont need to be spiritual to realise how to heal themselves with good food like hYppocrates said. Us spiritualist, we are only alive because of our skeptic scientist brothers and sisters. Bless them all even those willing to hate others. Spirituality=Short road to peace and science= disorder within order th utmost skepticism. Belss you creators! Peace be with you
"ThirteenFingers, You sound very angry! You sound very right! " Well he is partly right, since that type of "touchy feely" or "mumbo jumbo" or even spirituality itself does turn off many people, but what he fails to understand is the "damned if you do, damned if you don't aspect" namely, often the opposite complaint is made: "the reason you environmentalists don't have more listening to you is that you're too factual, too scientific, too dry, too depressing, people want postive emotions, fun.."
@econdemocracy I understand both aspects. While it can be explained in dry terms... you've hit on the reason I don't do so.
When I talk or think about local food production, sustainable methods and so on, I'm not about "food miles" and "carbon footprints" and "persistent global summertime" and the likes... I'm about the joy of being involved in your food from soil to plate, being outdoors, the unbeatable taste of fresh, in season food and so on. "Organic" can be explained in terms of "cheap".
If anyone was unsure, read bananito3's last few unhinged, ranting comments. He's so hung up on his fantasy that jews are causing all the world's problems that he's leaped from reading that I live in a largely Jewish area, which I do, to him calling me a 60 year old impotent "kike".
He is deranged.
The only reason he is made that leap is because "the jew" is the bogeyman living under his bed ready to eat him if he gets up after bed time. He sees "the jew" behind all his problems. He's mistaken.
"It's not poetry and songs I dislike... it's clouding the waters of permaculture with pagan spirituality that I take issue with as it puts people off." <--- This is the core of the question with this vid.
@bananito3 Monsanto is bad... of course... but why the need for "JEW"? Completely unnecessary and makes me respect your comment even less than the hippie guff puts people off permaculture.
Looking past the pretty overt bigotry in that comment, yes, Monsanto does seem to be trying to own food which can never be a good thing.
The point is, the "jew" part is irrelevant unless you think "jew" makes things worse or is otherwise significant. It's not.
Companies like WalMart are a HUGE factor in screwing up the planet with Persistent Global Summertime, yet they are never called the non-jewish/christian/atheist multinational monopolies.
Some multis are jewish owned, some are not... some of the worst in fact... like BP - currently spewing oil all over the gulf.
It is bigotry if you mention it when it means nothing.
dude, do you think it is good to argue about the Jewish question on Jewish monopolies
are u a jew?
there is no point in denying the evident
FYI Walmart is Jewish company, SAMUEL Walton(possibly a non jew) is dead, his children(walmart owners) are Jewish(have the Jewess Helen Walton blood link )
So Walmart is owned by Jewish.
If it doesnt mean anything why put it so much attention.
@bananito3 Why so much attention? Because you made a comment agreeing with me and followed it up with bigotry and there's no way I'm leaving anyone the chance to associate my comments with those views.
"Are you a jew?"
No - but thanks for confirming my suspicions of bigotry. If it were otherwise you would not have asked that as it, too, would be irrelevant.
The only people I've ever heard say "jewess" are bigots.
So what if Monsanto and Wal-Mart are Jewish? Nothing would change if it wasn't.
@bananito3 I know what it means... I've travelled a lot, lived in a few different countries and now I live right in the middle of one of the biggest Jewish neighbourhoods in the UK and even in this environment I have NEVER heard the word "Jewess" from anyone who wasn't a bigot, be they BNP, white supremacist, neo-nazi or just common or garden racist.
If you'd said "avoid BIG MONOPOLIES like monsanto" it would have meant avoiding multis like monsanto (which would include the non-jewish ones too) but you didn't. You specifically said to avoid the JEWISH monopolies. That's an entriely different thing.
Either you didn't mean that, in which case the "jew" part was really ill-advised and should be avoided or you did in which case I was right in my first response.
I choose 1 and 3 because they are the ONLY elements that are relevant. Whether it's jewish-owned or not is irrelevant to the question of sustainability and environmental issues UNLESS you are a bigot who sees "jew monopoly" as somehow worse than "monopoly".
Oh - and it's not a monopoly... it's a multinational.
Multinationals are the problem. Not christian ones, not jewish ones... multinationals full-stop. THAT is why I only choose 2 of 3 - because I'm no bigot and #2 is irrelevant.
@thirteenfingers I'll spell it out a bit clearer.. LOL lets say your girl have cancer and you go to a doctor, you ask the doctor whether if its leucemia, colon cancer or myoma complication? the doctor answers: "You are such a biggot." You leave the room. He is a bad doctor, you are stupid and your girl will die. Because if you have something harming you, you need to know as much information about it, to prevent it or to fight against. do you understand? and yeah monopolies are all bad
In this case it doesn't matter a jot if the multi is jewish owned or not. It's the multinational part, the part where they screw up the planet, and the part where they abuse the third world, profit from bonded and underage labour and so on.
Knowing Monsanto is jewish owned doesn't change a single thing. The fight against it is the same either way.
The only people who care if it's jewish owned are bigots.
because if all monopolies are interconnected by Jewish people, you are talking about a mafia. A Jewish mafia in this case.
Consumerism and multis are the byproduct of a financial system that supports at all costs(and pay attention on my words), at all costs the survival of this financial system. The Jewish bank monopoly is the beginning of every other Jewish monopoly. That Jew Financial monopoly is also not controlled by any nation. They do as they want.
4> While a small number of people do have great influence, they are not all Jews.
That is not to say the financial system isn't problematic and so on, but this bogus argument about Jews being the big bad bogeyman ruining it all for everyone is ridiculous.
BNP touches on all that aren't ethnically British... Jews and Irish included.
1)Monsanto wants to become a food monopoly.(when you buy or break all your competitors, like natural seed companies its called a... monopoly action).
2) It doesnt matter if not all monopolies are Jewish(though i am not saying they are not). But, again, the most evil monopolies like Monsanto, Fed, Int banks and media are... Jewish.
3) lets say that their actions are projected in a Jew globalized dir. Also they govern by proxy =obama
What it wants and what it is are two entirely different things. It is not a monopoly in any way, shape or form. GM and patented genetics are a serious concern but still don't constitute a monopoly.
Just for fun, name ONE true monopoly outside the "shadowy elite of bankers who control the world" which may or may not exist.
BNP's current drive is vs. muslims because that's a big part of the current situation but their very foundation is anti-everything-non-British.
sorry but law is not like that. Monsanto is not a person, it may be a company created by evil persons: Jews, but it is not itself a person.
If a company have monopoly practices then it is going to be sanctioned as a monopoly. Every company may become a potential monopoly. Law is there to protect and avoid companies to do so.
So if i say monsanto wants to be a monopoly, is because it's moving on that direction, using monopoly practices
@bananito3 Every monopoly first wanted to be a monopoly.
Monsanto is a monopoly in every way, shape and form.
"GM and patented genetics are a serious concern but still don't constitute a monopoly." When those companies also buy their competition AKA natural seeds companies, you can tell they are creating a monopoly.
Are you now defending Monsanto, english man?
I have to go but plz tell me what monopoly do you want me to talk about.
@bananito3 I don't want you to talk about a monopoly... I want you to (and I quote) "name ONE true monopoly outside the "shadowy elite of bankers who control the world" which may or may not exist."
In fact, there IS one that I hadn't considered - but you've not mentioned it... it has absolutely NO bearing on the issue of food ownership and genetic modification so it isn't really relevant and regardless, it's a STATE monopoly, not a "big jew monopoly" so doesn't fit your argument either.
@thirteenfingers WTF? why are you so scared of diverting attention on the Jewish origin of Monsanto. Knock it off pussy, grow a pair. State monopoly? its not the same as a JEWISH global monopoly installed on 1 or more nations. do you have tay-sachs disease? LOL Its easy look: Monsanto buys or breaks his competi; hence its a monopoly. Mosanto is owned by Jews; hence its a Jewish monopoly. The most dangerous monopolies are Jewish, hence we can talk about a Jewish mafia. Read it slowly.
@bananito3 I'm going to stop to you now. I had my suspicions before but as your posts are becoming steadily more unhinged I no longer want to continue this discourse. I didn't ask you to invent a monopoly but to name a TRUE monopoly.
Monsanto has competition ergo it is a monopoly. End of story.
It may be huge. It may be multinational. It may be Jewish and I really don't care if it is or not. However it is NOT a monopoly and your "the jews are coming" rants are small minded and missing the point.
I lost some meaning editing that to fit the length restrictions.
Should read:
"I'm going to stop talking to you now."
and
"...ergo it is not a monopoly."
Anyway, carrying on about "the jews" is no more than looking for a convenient scapegoat (see what I did there?) to blame for a much, much bigger and much , much more complicated problem.
Now I really am done with you and this conversation. I hope you figure things out soon. Passion like yours would be useful if you learned where to aim it.
@bananito3 Again, I couldn't care less which multinationals are Jewish owned or not. It doesn't matter. You can scream that the sky is falling because of the jews until you vomit... but it still won't matter.
The problems we face in food/seed patents, mainstream media, consumerism, supermarkets, persistent global summertime, pesticides and so on are truly immense... but carrying on about "the jews" distracts from the issues like the hippy-rubbish in this video detracts from permaculture. Done.
@thirteenfingers Yeah you cannot care less,cause you are a kike living in a Jewish community in England(not very seldom) and what i am saying provides mental clarity to others (READ non-jews) its again Jewish interests but i am not the best enemy of the Kikes, they are themselves their best enemy. Doing all the harm they do. So by bye next time grow a pair and write proud: I AM A KIKE, SO WHAT have some basic dignity englishjoke. XD
You've not been saying Monsanto *wants* to be a monopoly - you've said it *is* one. It's not.
Monsanto are not creating a monopoly. There is NOTHING to prevent you or I setting up a seed company beyond our drive and finances. Not a monopoly. End of.
Defending Monsanto? Nope. I have said over and over they are a serious threat. I've argued against your bigotry and use of "monopoly" - I've not defended Monsanto.
do you really want to know? or do you just want a cheap shot to discredit what i say?
Anyway, BNP is just a shill organization.
they may be working for the jewish cause.
BNP talks about racial stuff, but they seldom touch the Jews, they are concentrated in muslims. The lifespan of BNP is the same as the time it takes to kick the muslims out of Britain.
I do not want the islamization of europe as i do not want the supracapitalism of the Jewish bankers.
Knowing Monsanto is jewish owned may not change a thing for you.
But knowing that Monsanto, US media, Federal Reserve, International financial banks; are jewish owned monopolies, you can see that there is a Jewish mafia.
And you are being irresponsible if you choose to close your eyes.
The guy in the video is making a lot of great points. Mumbo jumbo? Come now, this is real culture where people create and share, instead of passively buy a product. Maybe people have forgotten what that looks like, and dismiss it.
Writing songs and poems and sharing them with community instead of buying merch is a meaningful ecological act. It's about getting life from the source, taking it back from the middlemen who'd kill the planet for a buck. Get off the corporate hook!
GOD DAMN I cannot stand it to watch these freaking hippie, earth worshiping pagans taking something so good like organic farming systems and destroying it with their retarded veganism, music, dancing, etc.... This is just sick. This is another reason why the majority of people aren't doing the right thing.
The people doing the right thing are the wrong dudes.
@ScopedOUT2 Vegatarianism, music, dancing makes you sick? Last time I checked they all led to good health, are you sure? You sound angry I can listen when you need someone to talk to dude. By the way dont get any ideas I Love woman there's nothing like it especially after having a good vegetarian meal and turning ourselves on to dance and music too! You never know where it'll lead to lol? By the way you really what the majority of people think about permaculture thats cool let me know sometime!
@CancerLover87 I didn't fully understand everything you said, because there were a few typos. Permaculture is one of the most outstanding forms of agriculture that is readily available for practice. We have simple solutions from nature, yet we resort to complex applications to "solve" our problems.
Permaculture makes use of meat, not veganism.
Veganism, hippie music, and paganism will simply turn people away from what they should really listen too.
@ScopedOUT2 ...how do these folks have anything to do with why the majority is not doing the right thing? What a slam... so are we supposed to worship some other god or entity in the sky and let this place continue to go to shit? or, do something positive? Maybe looking at the small percent who has been manipulating and controlling this planet would be a better place to point your finger.... Its all dominance, control and ego... if we could leave eachother alone and mind our own business...cont
@ScopedOUT2 ...live and let live... hippies and conscious people will be conscious people... you don't have to live here with them but we don't all need to fight. I have a hard time believing ideas like this are the reason this place is so fucked. Come on, look at the small percentage who has been ruling the world for thousands of years ...now there is a good pace for you to point your feelings of being sick.
@ScopedOUT2 Why does the show of love and affection anger you ? I think you lack love and that is why you have this reaction. But it is okay. We understand and we will take you in and you can come plant a garden with us whenever you want to.
@ScopedOUT2 I'm not sure which is more scary; the fact that one person would make a statement like this, or that it's the highest rated comment here. Is this really what humanity has become?
@ScopedOUT2 This is why people dont do the right thing? What IS the reason to do something good, then? To make more money only? To just understand the earth not becuse you care, but because you can earn more from it that way? If someone wants to love their natural surrounding, let them. Its not bad, not good. Its THEIR choice. None of them are telling you what to think or do. It just works for them. As for why people make bad choices, I doubt its due to 'hippies' who hug trees. Highly doubt it.
For all those who cannot resist attacking this video with rants about superficiality or spiritual mumbo-jumbo should really take a moment and look in the mirror and go hug someone they hate! This video is not about portraying perfect concept of permaculture. Its to inspire and navigate all of us to some other possiblity. The world is in High anxiety and angry and pissed. Take it out somewhere else! Holding hands could be the best thing we could all be doing. So stop your ranting please!
@druwin If I hated anyone - I might. As for holding hands - I don't really know what that'd solve. Kinda hard to tend crops like that. ;o)
I return again to my original comment - things like this put masses of people off looking further into things like permaculture. Things like this are the reason organic (even organic monoculture) food - let alone permaculture - is seen as a crusty, yoghurt weaving activity for rich kids by many.
@druwin well said, im trying to decide whether i should do agriculture or tree surgery at college. ive only just heard about permaculture sounds interesting.
@druwin I liked this video! I liked the chance to see these people and learn what they are doing. But...it dawned on me it would actually be a more interesting piece to reflect on to interview some of the people who are critical and uncomfortable with it, as well as someone along the lines of psychoanalyst Alice Miller who could explain some of the kinds of child abuse, schooling, etc. which put people into the "stupor" mentioned in this video, where they are afraid to feel and relate.
@druwin I'm not angry at all. Far from it. I've had a great day tending my crops. If I sound miffed it's only because I'm discussing things with someone who insists on running around what I've said, misrepresenting it with comments littered with assumptions which prove they really have no clue what I'm about despite my spelling it out, and apparently very little clue what PERMAnent agriCULTURE is about.
totally agree. i've been looking for a decent, informative permaculture video on youtube for about a 1/2 hour and all I'm getting is hippie ego and double-talk.
@Dastutmirleid try looking up Biodynamics; so much more than hippie singing but bringing in science and cosmic energy; moon cycles all into building a healthy non chemical way of gardening and going back to basic principles.
Here's what I did...prior to ending up on this crappy excuse for a Permaculture video...google Permaculture...goto the Wikipedia link....read till your eyes bleed....then watch all the video links at the bottom of the page....especially the ones with one of the founders, Bill Mollison. Yes, that's all Free....enjoy.
I am Akimel O'otham from the Arizona Gila River Tribe. Im so happy that some non native american people are starting to realize the truth. cuz permaculture is what our culture is all about. so keep fighting the good fight and spread the knowledge of permaculture. Its the best thing to happen ever!
wanna see proper permaculture? watch videos from "sepp holzer" he is a down to earth farmer, practicing real permaculture for years in the mountains of austria (not australia)
@ladylillycroft I agree Holzer is a great man, I want to visit his land and learn from him, but he says that all of us have to experiment our own way and that his is his own pc, so maybe these people have the right to post a video of themselves on yt about their vision. what about us, do we have a pc way for ourselves? now is the time to do all what we can to be permaculturists in the real world.
You know, I'm pretty eco-inclined to start with (I'm even wearing a green wooly jumper as I type this! Haha) but even I was put off by the holding hands in a circle and wierd songs.
The thing is, it's totally possible to live sustainably without getting into all the spiritual mumbo jumbo that's so often wrapped up in eco issues.
It drives me nuts, to be honest... and I'm absolutely convinced it puts masses of people off investigating further.
BTW It goes against the principles to Permaculture to imagine that there should be a single face that represents it --- locally adapted diversity is what its all about. The movement has never had centralized control over its "image" and has not tried, except for requiring Certification for Teachers, which only takes paying for a course from somebody Certified. There are only "principles" and these are extremely abstract, not clarifying what is ideological doctrine or not.
Excellent point...perhaps the Vatican, or the Federal Reserve, or the Food and Drug Administration would like to adapt "Permaculture" into their "local" agenda as well. (as if they haven't in their own way already) The point is, special interest groups ALWAYS attempt to adapt good ideas to their plight....when it should be the special interest groups that are adapting to the good idea.
@PAGANRoots The fed, I'll grant you. But the church? How exactly does living in a completely sustainable way have any effect on the foundation of the church (or the church in any way at all for that matter).
If you can respond without referring to a medieval caricature of the church (catholic, protestant "high", free or otherwise) more akin to the Monty Python "Spanish Inquisition" sketches than any current reality that would be fab.
@thirteenfingers because the church still got a big influence on people and how they should live, like with anti-conception and abortus. The church does have a lot of conservative thoughts and my comment was not an attack on religion in any way. Large corporations that abuse the world with globalization are a huge problem and I should have mentioned that instead.
Exactly! I kinda sucks that some may see this video and make a decision about what Permaculture is. While I don't disagree with the majority of the definitions given, I'd much rather have Bill Mollison be giving the definition under a video titled "What is Permaculture"...and if the Lama club is recruiting, I'd appreciate them not glomming on to the idea of Permaculture to do it...even if it IS something the club participates in.
@thirteenfingers maybe because we killed the Gods? modern society trains us to hate spirituality, the media is always ridiculing people who believe in something. Fact is, that spirituality and wisdom is a big threat to globalization and capitalism.
@PAGANRoots To kill the gods they would need to exist to begin with. I will qualify that by saying I am *not* an atheist.
I am not trained to hate spirituality, but I think *mother* nature and the type of spiritualism shown in this video are, as I described them, mumbo jumbo.
The natural systems and cycles observed in organic, seasonal living are just that, natural... as opposed to supernatural/spiritual.
Don't mistake my comment on this video as a closed minded reaction, it is far from it.
@thirteenfingers consider for a moment what has happened: for hundreds of years one particular culture has gone around the planet bringing a "better way of life and religion" to the "barbaric" cultures and essentially setting about destroying them. (intentional or not) Now the interesting thing is that many of these "barbaric" cultures had these things in common: community, standing in cricles and singing or dancing, living in harmony of nature. While the other one had lost touch with this.
@bluelotuspetals I find that view overly simplistic. You're indirectly saying christianity is out of touch with nature, doesn't have singing and dancing and that is, simply put, nonsense. I'm not going to make a defence of one religion or another here, but the disconnection from nature has nothing to do with religion or any old culture. It's entirely down to consumerism.
Note that until the last 100 to 200 years almost everyone, Christian or otherwise, was in direct contact with the land.
@thirteenfingers and I've never stated any such thing about Christianity, those were your perceptions. In fact the cultures who live closest to the earth and seem to be at one with it DO in fact view all of nature as a spiritual being/presence which we are all part of. There is no divorce from that in their way of thinking only in the thinking of the dominant culture which has lost touch with the ties to this essential way of being. As such it would strike them as odd, weird and "super" natural.
@bluelotuspetals You don't say explicitly, but you did imply. You're in a country where the "dominant culture" has the "one religion" of Christianity. It doesn't take a genius to join the dots.
The cultures living closest to the earth may see it in a Monistic way, but that doesn't make it so. The view of nature as a sentient being is born out of ignorance of what's going on. Supernatural means something above nature. Nature minus spiritualism is not supernatural.
@thirteenfingers "ay see it in a Monistic way, but that doesn't make it so. The view of nature as a sentient being is born out of ignorance of what's going on. Supernatural means something above nature. Nature minus spiritualism is not supernatural." is precisely the viewpoint of one who lives in a culture divorced from nature. When you live it you will experience it. Until then it will remain an ellusive idea to you.
@bluelotuspetals That is the viewpoint of someone who grows his own food with organic methods, polyculture planting, composting and seed saving. That is the viewpoint of one who eats locally grown, seasonal produce.That is the viewpoint of a person who sees the whole of humanity as inextricably linked to and part of nature. Divorced from nature? Far, far from it. I just see it for what it is, and it is a balanced system with uncountable members, not a monistic being.
Even your terms "the dominant culture" and "closest to the earth" cloud things. Define your terms please. Are you referring to consumerism or something else? Which cultures live closest?
Again, the problem is consumerism. There are quite literally millions of people around the world who don't live a consumerist life and who live seasonally and organically without having a monistic outlook.
The two are not related in anything other than the minds of those who believe it.
@thirteenfingers "Even your terms "the dominant culture" and "closest to the earth" cloud things. Define your terms please. Are you referring to consumerism or something else? Which cultures live closest?" Please do some historical study. Barring that consider how many in the oldest nature cultures had McDonalds in their midst before the arrival of the western man.
@bluelotuspetals That was precisely my point. Consumerism (of which McDonalds is a prime example) and not religion is the problem.
Maybe you're the one who needs to do homework: Until Europeans arrived with horses and rifles, native Americans would stampede Bison off a cliff and let what they didn't need rot. Since you won't specify - please shoehorn that scenario into your romanticised vision of the "oldest nature cultures" having such a light touch. Again, not religion... consumerism.
@thirteenfingers you were the one who brought religion into this. To be spiritual doesn't mean religion. Again the viewpoint of one divorced from the experience. And if you look at how they lived it would be unlikely that any native tribe would let all that meat and materials rot. Everything was used. Permaculture is based on the tradition of using everything and not wasting it as one would in the current consumer society. Europeans first arriving always made assumptions about what they saw.
@bluelotuspetals YOU brought religion into it with "better way of life and religion". I don't even want to talk about it! I'm talking about consumerism and spiritualism. "Everything was used" the pinnacle romantic view of first peoples. They did so *after* they got horses and rifles but until then waste was common. "Unlikely" in your view of them, but it happened in real life. The sheer workload of butchering and preserving a single kill proves the idea of preserving a whole herd to be nonsense.
@druwin One one hand, they can be separated because permaculture is a system of sustainable agriculture, biodiversity and complete, complementary systems for productions, design and so on... that's it.
On the other hand they can be separated because permaculture works in a logical, rational and systematic way whereas the spiritual hokum tied up in it is just that, hokum.
All is one only in so far as we are all physically part of nature - but the monistic "spirit of all things" is nonsense.
@thirteenfingers in response to all your responses: Go and live with a native tribe in the bush and live off the land in a purely organic fashion for a few months and after that we can have a more rounded and open discussion. At this point its purely conjecture on your part.
@bluelotuspetals Are you KIDDING? I grow food, I can make cordage, shelter, fire and more from natural materials and you're calling it conjecture? Are you nuts?
I already live seasonally in a purely organic fashion - but now I need to live in the bush thousands of miles from my friends and family? For what? It's not going to make the spiritual side real (it is HOKUM) and all the rest... I already do. You dismiss all I say out of hand and you talk about open and rounded? Nuts!
keep in mind ,the earth and all flora & fauna is a living breathing entity .
abelyssah 3 weeks ago
Stoned, middle class kids decided to go back to the "roots" eh? Goddamn pretentious hippies.
SwedishGamerRetards 5 months ago
@SwedishGamerRetards and i am certain that you are setting a standard of excellence with whatever it is that you do.....you must be a heroic figure, i can tell....
elrito1 5 months ago
@elrito1 At least I'm not an irrational, idealistic, pretentious douchebag who thinks he makes a difference by wearing a scarf. Put down the pipe and try to improve things that you can actually affect instead of being a hippie douche about WORLD HUNGER and EVIL CORPURASHUNS MAAAN.
SwedishGamerRetards 5 months ago
@SwedishGamerRetards Thats all good and well mon.....We now know what you are not....However it would be nice to know, for future reference, what solutions you may have to solve some of the world problems that we face....Since you are such an expert in how not to do things....
elrito1 5 months ago
The ideas are great. (The singing and "worship" aspects, not so much. Even non-threatening songs frightens the Faith community) The ideas are useful but people need to pull their heads out and look around(and most people will) but many people are addicted to convenience of modern culture and that is the obstacle.
PatheticHero 6 months ago
Right, let's ask people to pretend to be what they aren't. You object to the songs? the undyed hair? the granola feel? WEll.... CLARITY NOW... these folks are the experts. Put down your judgements, It's okay... we can learn something here.
lovelytigress 6 months ago
Permaculture isn't about these relationships and holding hands and forest farming. Permaculture is permanent agriculture, which seeks to establish the longest possible agricultural system needs next to no input in order to sustain it. That's all. So please explain why you guys have to push everyone away with your hippie like image?
ScopedOUT2 7 months ago
@ScopedOUT2 What's wrong with hippies? At least they get it.
amberb57 7 months ago
fn commie socialists! how does wall street get rich from this??
lol.
kc1964kc 8 months ago
@kc1964kc Please exaplain how you think socialism and communism are related. Sorry, what does politics have to do with practical living??
donsjuand 7 months ago
The process of permaculture happens in nature when we don't tamper with it.
Now, the coined phrase "permaculture" is being turned into a hoola-hoop affair - perverted by beany capped dead-heads using mommy and daddy's money to take another "trip"
Stick with Masonoba Fukuoka, Bill Mollison, Geoff Lawton, David Holdgren and others who practice honestly what the preach - without all the mantra,
theroilsoil 8 months ago
some one sent this video to me, and i did not know what it was about , but i was curious to watch it and after seeing it my opinion is that we have to work as one and learn from our experiences , love and protect nature and stop the wasteful money system , we need to sustain ourselves
this method combined with the zeitgeist movement would change the world :)
pidromonz 8 months ago
@pidromonz If you dont mind, but the Zeitgeist movement wants to chip the whole population and make us slaves to a computer system. I wouldn't put my hopes on any organisation to be honest. It is about the people, not fictional brainfarts like institutions and organisations.
MrNarchya 7 months ago
When I lived in Albuquerque I collected bags of lawn clippings and mulched a patch behind my apartment on Eastern. In a couple of years I had turned a hard patch of ground into deep rich soil.
SteveHovland 8 months ago
Yeah, I'm into the message, but what's with all the stoned talking heads? The mainstream is ready to have a conversation about permaculture, and we can at least set aside the pipe for a few minutes to meet them half way...
claritynow 9 months ago 4
@claritynow The "mainstream" isn't even interested in growing tomatoes in their backyard, they'd rather buy it all at the store. It's "stoned talking heads" like these people who actually understand the need and are leading the way in this field.
amberb57 7 months ago
@claritynow Yes I agree with you on that one! The message is a vital necessity; however, come on dudes, could
you put down the green for the interview at least?
Sacred Starts Here
tHePyRoZoMbIe69 6 months ago
@claritynow Yes and when they present it leading with the "ethics" & "spirituality" and not the pure efficiency and productivity of this type of system, people easily have trouble taking it seriously.
Resodeus 6 months ago
@claritynow Was there evidence in the video of a pipe going around? Or are you making this assumption based on a certain quality of the monologues?
elrito1 5 months ago
TruthSmack 9 months ago
looks like americans are rediscovering the culture that once thrived in this beautiful paradise...may we reconnect with the truth!! :) thanks for the post
northwestblazinfire 10 months ago 5
Permaculture is about a bunch of overeducated hippies who don't want to get real jobs tooling around in the dirt and feeling good about themselves.
TecPontificates 10 months ago
@TecPontificates and when all the shops are closed you will wish you'd know at least one of these overeducated hippies, I feel sorry for you
naninasailing 10 months ago
@naninasailing When the shops are closed, I'll wish I owned a gun.
TecPontificates 10 months ago
@TecPontificates I had no idea that one could eat guns
naninasailing 10 months ago
@naninasailing Zing!
TecPontificates 10 months ago
Comment removed
naninasailing 10 months ago
Not a single word about farming, but a lot of abstract crap, funny hats, and holding hands in a circle.
Fruitcakes.
TheProphetNabob 11 months ago
@TheProphetNabob It's not about farming, it's a video about what permaculture is. I think theres a little fruit cake in you wanting to bust out.
JosephAlbertKemp 10 months ago
not Bill Mollison's or Geoff Lawton's Permaculture.... this is bush hippie stuff....
Mulch holding in water that is part of Permaculture
care of people
care of the earth
permanent Culture
glockman1727ak47 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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workwithnature 1 year ago
We have put together a site that showcases aspiring writers in sustainable agriculture. We are particulary interested in the theme of how spirituality (whatever that means to you) can inform sustainability.
You can find us at greenisourgardendotcom
GreenIsOurGarden 1 year ago
Permaculture sounds perfect but I need some help. I'm looking for a study submitted to an accepted science journal, open for peer review, which shows how many FOOD calories (per year) ANY forest garden has produced and the size of that particular garden.
The question is, how large does the forest garden in that area need to be to sustain an average person?
RodCornholio 1 year ago
@RodCornholio That is a fantastic Question. my guess is 2-3 acres of land. Wish I could point you to some peer review martial. Try Permies dot com?? The owner of the site has done work with scientists
glockman1727ak47 1 year ago
@glockman1727ak47 Thanks, I'll check it out. I'm already scoping out 2-3 books on edible perennials, forest gardens, etc.
My intuition/guesstimate was the same (2 - 3 acres).
It (permaculture) a fascinating and exciting idea. Not knowing this for so long is as if I've been living in the Dark Ages.
RodCornholio 1 year ago
@RodCornholio It is Very Fascinating. Please keep me posted about what you find out. I would love to hear what you have to say. It would be wonderful if you put up a video or even an article on a blog. Please do share what you find. Is there anything I can do to help you?
glockman1727ak47 11 months ago
@glockman1727ak47
OK. My plan, in a nutshell, is to first research the basics (i.e. the layers, "guilds" etc. and what CAN grow in my general area based on current lists). Next will be a combination of A.) scouting out where B.) taking soil samples, talking to experts, etc. and (based on that) C.) eliminating what CAN'T grow. Finally, planning and execution. My aim is high calorie & nutritional value yields per acre/hectare with the least amount of labor/ energy.
RodCornholio 11 months ago
Associating permaculture with false perceptual constructs is destructive to the goal of teaching common sense farming, spreading prejudice over solutions.
Teaching sustainable perennial gardening, building food forest infrastructure, spreading perennial bio-diversity is where permaculture gains its momentum.
Helioforge 1 year ago
This video is the definition of pseudo-intellectual mumbo-jumbo.
Speak in crappy abstractions. Hold hands and sing. This ain't farming. It's a religion.
TheProphetNabob 1 year ago
Okay if you say so ... now run along.
Elvception1979 1 year ago
I'm not a hippie. In fact I listen to classical music most of the time, don't smoke pot, don't drink too much alcohol, have only one girl friend and am working for an insurance company. But I do practise permaculture. Am I the right guy?
highskilledsibby 1 year ago
Why even acknowledge this drone for he's still plugged into the Matrix.
Elvception1979 1 year ago
@Elvception1979 Skyscrapers, bureaucrats and the destructive forces of capitalism are my warzone. Swallow your pill and fight from outside if you wish. My place is here. :)
highskilledsibby 1 year ago
Sure okay thats not nice as long as you are on the side of good but like the saying goes "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Elvception1979 1 year ago
@Elvception1979 I don't throw stones but I fight were I stand. I grow my own vegetables in my front and back yard. I support predatory insects by creating habitats for them. My point of view is: Be a hippie if you want to. But you don't have to be a hippie to see that permaculture is the best design system for nearly every aspect of daily life. Transportation. Living. Growing food. Recycling s.c. waste. Permaculture is for everyone. Easily repeatable and scientifc sound.
highskilledsibby 1 year ago 2
Okay I can respect that.
Elvception1979 1 year ago
Man, I sure love the idea of permaculture. The wedding of hard science and useful ancient knowledge to design living- and growing-spaces is fascinating to me. It's just a shame that the field seems to be totally saturated with folk-singin' moonbat morons that need to join hands and wombat-dance around a drum circle in celebration every time one of them figures out how to take a dump. And that dolt doing folk-song-sign-language made me wanna chew out my own eyes.
Mcvthree 1 year ago
what the hell does all the singing have to do with it.
RealvsScam 1 year ago
Religion or way of life??? Most of us can easily understand the benefit of sustianable living/permaculture making it in to a religion will turn a lot of people off. Your community looks great, I would sell it as a spiritual community using sustainable practices
jimpgale 1 year ago
Religion or way of life??? Most of us can easily understand the benefit of sustianable living/permaculture let's not making it in to a religion will turn a lot of people off. Your community looks great, I would sell it as a spiritual community using sustainable practices
jimpgale 1 year ago
That looks like a hard life. Corporations have brought about enhanced efiiciencies for many aspects of life, but have also brought us some serious ills. The trick is to not throw out the baby with the bath water. We need to regain our spiritual connection to each other & to the earth. A great revolution would remove de-humanizing incentives for corporate abuses, such as concentration of wealth & power, overworking us as slaves, and destruction of our environment. Deeper thinking is needed.
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annafghfgh 1 year ago
do you have to be a pot smoking dirty hippie to be into permicultur becaues i live to be clean and sober
superrobotmunkyman 1 year ago
Pot smoking no. Dirty? yes. Got to get in the dirt. yup. At least for Permaculture gardening. But Permaculture extends far beyond gardening into all catagories of your life. Go google Bioneers and see what bunch of clear and sober people doing :) K.S.
MrKumarsankara 1 year ago
Pot smoking no. Dirty? yes. Got to get in the dirt. yup. At least for Permaculture gardening. But Permaculture extends far beyond gardening into all categories of your life. Go google Bioneers and see what bunch of clear and sober people doing :) K.S.
MrKumarsankara 1 year ago
@MrKumarsankara dirty hippie
superrobotmunkyman 1 year ago
i agree with thirteen fingers , all this hippie stuff has been done , it just clouds the issue im all for a different way of life but im no tree hugger
kingfisher44 1 year ago
When did love [aka relationship] and happiness become spiritual mumbo jumbo? There are two types of people in this world - lovers and haters. These good people are trying to explain that to you. It's pretty clear where you stand, but I truly wish you would reconsider. It's ok to care about things...
EMT22637 1 year ago
Goddamn hippies...
igorBgood 1 year ago
Just get your hands into the earth and listen.
chrysalis12481 1 year ago
Dear druwin. I would like to say something especially to you, since you seem to be very passionate about spirituality. Not everyone is ready to accept the "truth" about life.Not everyone is ready to put their huge EGO behind,i don't even think that most people are not even ready to RECOGNIZE their own ego. Your level of consciousness is totally different from the rest. Permaculture SHOULD NOT be directly linked to anything spiritual. The spirit will follow mother nature..Not by words. By nature.
infamouscrook 1 year ago
Practical with cOmmOn sense dOes it:)
CheckinGagaiNagain 1 year ago
Awsome I was looking for a definition of permaculture I love the variety. Go Positive message. I'm sure others will realise they dont need to be spiritual to realise how to heal themselves with good food like hYppocrates said. Us spiritualist, we are only alive because of our skeptic scientist brothers and sisters. Bless them all even those willing to hate others. Spirituality=Short road to peace and science= disorder within order th utmost skepticism. Belss you creators! Peace be with you
CancerLover87 1 year ago
Nice video! :)
Soul less comments from soul less zombies
should not get you down.
I've been doing permaculture for many years. :)
Peace and Love
MrNobodyNothing 1 year ago
"ThirteenFingers, You sound very angry! You sound very right! " Well he is partly right, since that type of "touchy feely" or "mumbo jumbo" or even spirituality itself does turn off many people, but what he fails to understand is the "damned if you do, damned if you don't aspect" namely, often the opposite complaint is made: "the reason you environmentalists don't have more listening to you is that you're too factual, too scientific, too dry, too depressing, people want postive emotions, fun.."
econdemocracy 1 year ago
@econdemocracy I understand both aspects. While it can be explained in dry terms... you've hit on the reason I don't do so.
When I talk or think about local food production, sustainable methods and so on, I'm not about "food miles" and "carbon footprints" and "persistent global summertime" and the likes... I'm about the joy of being involved in your food from soil to plate, being outdoors, the unbeatable taste of fresh, in season food and so on. "Organic" can be explained in terms of "cheap".
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
If anyone was unsure, read bananito3's last few unhinged, ranting comments. He's so hung up on his fantasy that jews are causing all the world's problems that he's leaped from reading that I live in a largely Jewish area, which I do, to him calling me a 60 year old impotent "kike".
He is deranged.
The only reason he is made that leap is because "the jew" is the bogeyman living under his bed ready to eat him if he gets up after bed time. He sees "the jew" behind all his problems. He's mistaken.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
Permaculture is OK
"It's not poetry and songs I dislike... it's clouding the waters of permaculture with pagan spirituality that I take issue with as it puts people off." <--- This is the core of the question with this vid.
bananito3 1 year ago
This is the perfect alternative to avoid BIG JEW MONOPOLIES like monsanto, trying to be the owner of all the seeds and food....
I like permaculture
maybe not this hippie vid, but what they are doing is good.
Permaculture all the way it is not another hippie BS but a serious way of sustainable agriculture.
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 Monsanto is bad... of course... but why the need for "JEW"? Completely unnecessary and makes me respect your comment even less than the hippie guff puts people off permaculture.
Looking past the pretty overt bigotry in that comment, yes, Monsanto does seem to be trying to own food which can never be a good thing.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
yeah m8, your cmt is fair enough
i know that people do not want to see that jews have created most evil monopolies (international banks, wall street, FED, monsanto).
but it is not biggotry IF its true man.
Monsanto is a Jewish owned company.
I am ok if you dont want to use the term Jew in your comments, but why attack me for pointing out something true.
I am not lying
Monsanto is a Jewish monopoly.
People can draw their own conclussions.
bananito3 1 year ago
The point is, the "jew" part is irrelevant unless you think "jew" makes things worse or is otherwise significant. It's not.
Companies like WalMart are a HUGE factor in screwing up the planet with Persistent Global Summertime, yet they are never called the non-jewish/christian/atheist multinational monopolies.
Some multis are jewish owned, some are not... some of the worst in fact... like BP - currently spewing oil all over the gulf.
It is bigotry if you mention it when it means nothing.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
dude, do you think it is good to argue about the Jewish question on Jewish monopolies
are u a jew?
there is no point in denying the evident
FYI Walmart is Jewish company, SAMUEL Walton(possibly a non jew) is dead, his children(walmart owners) are Jewish(have the Jewess Helen Walton blood link )
So Walmart is owned by Jewish.
If it doesnt mean anything why put it so much attention.
People knows, and it is not bigotry if its true
Mosanto as Walmart = jewish monopolies.
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 Why so much attention? Because you made a comment agreeing with me and followed it up with bigotry and there's no way I'm leaving anyone the chance to associate my comments with those views.
"Are you a jew?"
No - but thanks for confirming my suspicions of bigotry. If it were otherwise you would not have asked that as it, too, would be irrelevant.
The only people I've ever heard say "jewess" are bigots.
So what if Monsanto and Wal-Mart are Jewish? Nothing would change if it wasn't.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
Yeah that's why i thought that you thought. LOL
I am here stating that i had no intention on associating your views with mine.
both are true but mine is more specific.
and Jewess = Jew female.
you seem to be obsessed with the "bigotry" word
but no bigotry intended
ok?
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 I know what it means... I've travelled a lot, lived in a few different countries and now I live right in the middle of one of the biggest Jewish neighbourhoods in the UK and even in this environment I have NEVER heard the word "Jewess" from anyone who wasn't a bigot, be they BNP, white supremacist, neo-nazi or just common or garden racist.
...but I'm over it.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
ok sorry about Jewess
is Jewish mother.
bananito3 1 year ago
I'll spell it out a bit clearer...
You said "avoid BIG JEW MONOPOLIES like monsanto"
If you'd said "avoid BIG MONOPOLIES like monsanto" it would have meant avoiding multis like monsanto (which would include the non-jewish ones too) but you didn't. You specifically said to avoid the JEWISH monopolies. That's an entriely different thing.
Either you didn't mean that, in which case the "jew" part was really ill-advised and should be avoided or you did in which case I was right in my first response.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
like i told you, it is a matter of selection...
options:
1 Monsanto is evil = true
2 Monsanto is Jewish = true
3 Monsanto is big monopoly = true
you chose 1 and 3
I chose 1 2 and 3
same options, differente selections but both statements are true
bananito3 1 year ago
I choose 1 and 3 because they are the ONLY elements that are relevant. Whether it's jewish-owned or not is irrelevant to the question of sustainability and environmental issues UNLESS you are a bigot who sees "jew monopoly" as somehow worse than "monopoly".
Oh - and it's not a monopoly... it's a multinational.
Multinationals are the problem. Not christian ones, not jewish ones... multinationals full-stop. THAT is why I only choose 2 of 3 - because I'm no bigot and #2 is irrelevant.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 Now that is SERIOUSLY dumb.
In that case the type DOES matter.
In this case it doesn't matter a jot if the multi is jewish owned or not. It's the multinational part, the part where they screw up the planet, and the part where they abuse the third world, profit from bonded and underage labour and so on.
Knowing Monsanto is jewish owned doesn't change a single thing. The fight against it is the same either way.
The only people who care if it's jewish owned are bigots.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
nope the type does matter, maybe not to u, but then any doctor would call you irresponsible.
i mean if u really want to solve the problem, you need to know as much info about what is creating the problem.
and Jewish is not a religion but a race, a small organized tribe.
hence we have secular (non religious) Jews.
Do not be irresponsible, you seem to have a great grammar, i like your grammar, but you still need try to no overreact with racial triggers.
Tv is not your friend.
bananito3 1 year ago
This is surreal!
This is not cancer... nor any issue requiring the attention of a doctor and the parallels you draw are invalid.
I don't watch TV.
This is going in circles so I'm going to try a different approach.
I've said the fight against multinationals, persistent global summertime and so on is the same regardless of the ownership's ethnic origins.
You're saying otherwise... tell us, how does jewish ownership change the fight?
Consumerism and multis are creating the problem, not jews.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
because if all monopolies are interconnected by Jewish people, you are talking about a mafia. A Jewish mafia in this case.
Consumerism and multis are the byproduct of a financial system that supports at all costs(and pay attention on my words), at all costs the survival of this financial system. The Jewish bank monopoly is the beginning of every other Jewish monopoly. That Jew Financial monopoly is also not controlled by any nation. They do as they want.
bananito3 1 year ago
I'm not getting into this beyond this reply.
1> Monsanto isn't a monopoly.
2> Not all monopolies are Jewish owned.
3> Not all multinationals are Jewish owned.
4> While a small number of people do have great influence, they are not all Jews.
That is not to say the financial system isn't problematic and so on, but this bogus argument about Jews being the big bad bogeyman ruining it all for everyone is ridiculous.
BNP touches on all that aren't ethnically British... Jews and Irish included.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
1)Monsanto wants to become a food monopoly.(when you buy or break all your competitors, like natural seed companies its called a... monopoly action).
2) It doesnt matter if not all monopolies are Jewish(though i am not saying they are not). But, again, the most evil monopolies like Monsanto, Fed, Int banks and media are... Jewish.
3) lets say that their actions are projected in a Jew globalized dir. Also they govern by proxy =obama
Nope, BNP is focused on muslims particularly
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 Still going eh?
What it wants and what it is are two entirely different things. It is not a monopoly in any way, shape or form. GM and patented genetics are a serious concern but still don't constitute a monopoly.
Just for fun, name ONE true monopoly outside the "shadowy elite of bankers who control the world" which may or may not exist.
BNP's current drive is vs. muslims because that's a big part of the current situation but their very foundation is anti-everything-non-British.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
sorry but law is not like that. Monsanto is not a person, it may be a company created by evil persons: Jews, but it is not itself a person.
If a company have monopoly practices then it is going to be sanctioned as a monopoly. Every company may become a potential monopoly. Law is there to protect and avoid companies to do so.
So if i say monsanto wants to be a monopoly, is because it's moving on that direction, using monopoly practices
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 Every monopoly first wanted to be a monopoly.
Monsanto is a monopoly in every way, shape and form.
"GM and patented genetics are a serious concern but still don't constitute a monopoly." When those companies also buy their competition AKA natural seeds companies, you can tell they are creating a monopoly.
Are you now defending Monsanto, english man?
I have to go but plz tell me what monopoly do you want me to talk about.
cya
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 I don't want you to talk about a monopoly... I want you to (and I quote) "name ONE true monopoly outside the "shadowy elite of bankers who control the world" which may or may not exist."
In fact, there IS one that I hadn't considered - but you've not mentioned it... it has absolutely NO bearing on the issue of food ownership and genetic modification so it isn't really relevant and regardless, it's a STATE monopoly, not a "big jew monopoly" so doesn't fit your argument either.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 I'm going to stop to you now. I had my suspicions before but as your posts are becoming steadily more unhinged I no longer want to continue this discourse. I didn't ask you to invent a monopoly but to name a TRUE monopoly.
Monsanto has competition ergo it is a monopoly. End of story.
It may be huge. It may be multinational. It may be Jewish and I really don't care if it is or not. However it is NOT a monopoly and your "the jews are coming" rants are small minded and missing the point.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
Comment removed
bananito3 1 year ago
I lost some meaning editing that to fit the length restrictions.
Should read:
"I'm going to stop talking to you now."
and
"...ergo it is not a monopoly."
Anyway, carrying on about "the jews" is no more than looking for a convenient scapegoat (see what I did there?) to blame for a much, much bigger and much , much more complicated problem.
Now I really am done with you and this conversation. I hope you figure things out soon. Passion like yours would be useful if you learned where to aim it.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
yeah whatever kike.
like i told you
you have a good grammar, you have good spelling(but you didnt understand what i meant)
i meant
your ideas are weak
they are like your 60's dick
they need some serious help
they need direction and...
VIAGRA.
bananito3 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
about your pointless "surreal" question
(do you want me to invent a monopoly WTF?)
it is the same as you telling me which monopolies are Jewish?
can you tell me which ones are jewish? I just did in posts before.
So you take what i told you, and by using exclusion, you will have the answer to your own question.
which is irrelevant cause the number of imaginary monopolies can be infinite.
For example the Tay-Sachs patent monopoly, that fabricates the cure for your disease.
:D
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 Again, I couldn't care less which multinationals are Jewish owned or not. It doesn't matter. You can scream that the sky is falling because of the jews until you vomit... but it still won't matter.
The problems we face in food/seed patents, mainstream media, consumerism, supermarkets, persistent global summertime, pesticides and so on are truly immense... but carrying on about "the jews" distracts from the issues like the hippy-rubbish in this video detracts from permaculture. Done.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
oopps the spell police is nervous
"Monsanto has competition ergo it is a monopoly"
yeah i know its a monopoly
and a JEWISH monopoly
thx
bye
bananito3 1 year ago
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 *against <--for the SPELL POLICE
bananito3 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
well, Jew global pollution is worst than this hippy-rubbish trend.
I told you to leave the discussion at this vid, buy you wanted to escalate.
soo.
bananito3 1 year ago
@bananito3 I'm starting to question your sanity.
I didn't say Monsanto was a person.
You've not been saying Monsanto *wants* to be a monopoly - you've said it *is* one. It's not.
Monsanto are not creating a monopoly. There is NOTHING to prevent you or I setting up a seed company beyond our drive and finances. Not a monopoly. End of.
Defending Monsanto? Nope. I have said over and over they are a serious threat. I've argued against your bigotry and use of "monopoly" - I've not defended Monsanto.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
do you really want to know? or do you just want a cheap shot to discredit what i say?
Anyway, BNP is just a shill organization.
they may be working for the jewish cause.
BNP talks about racial stuff, but they seldom touch the Jews, they are concentrated in muslims. The lifespan of BNP is the same as the time it takes to kick the muslims out of Britain.
I do not want the islamization of europe as i do not want the supracapitalism of the Jewish bankers.
bananito3 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
Knowing Monsanto is jewish owned may not change a thing for you.
But knowing that Monsanto, US media, Federal Reserve, International financial banks; are jewish owned monopolies, you can see that there is a Jewish mafia.
And you are being irresponsible if you choose to close your eyes.
Remember the cancer parable.
bananito3 1 year ago
This is fascinating. I'm majoring in horticulture at school, after seeing this I'm definitely interested in getting into permaculture.
dreamlikedigital 1 year ago
The guy in the video is making a lot of great points. Mumbo jumbo? Come now, this is real culture where people create and share, instead of passively buy a product. Maybe people have forgotten what that looks like, and dismiss it.
Writing songs and poems and sharing them with community instead of buying merch is a meaningful ecological act. It's about getting life from the source, taking it back from the middlemen who'd kill the planet for a buck. Get off the corporate hook!
abstractedaway 1 year ago
Thinking the spiritual elements of this video are mumbo jumbo doesn't mean being on the corporate hook.
The organic, sustainable agriculture methods of permaculture are one thing.
Folk art and music are another.
Ditto spiritualism.
It's not poetry and songs I dislike... it's clouding the waters of permaculture with pagan spirituality that I take issue with as it puts people off.
Permaculture isn't culture... it's permanent agriculture. Huge difference. Equating one with the other is no good.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
lets say that spiritual Mumbo Jumbo is a bonus, but it is not needed.
I have met people with strong moral and spiritual fiber that are not in any way Hippies.
bananito3 1 year ago
GOD DAMN I cannot stand it to watch these freaking hippie, earth worshiping pagans taking something so good like organic farming systems and destroying it with their retarded veganism, music, dancing, etc.... This is just sick. This is another reason why the majority of people aren't doing the right thing.
The people doing the right thing are the wrong dudes.
ScopedOUT2 1 year ago 5
@ScopedOUT2 Vegatarianism, music, dancing makes you sick? Last time I checked they all led to good health, are you sure? You sound angry I can listen when you need someone to talk to dude. By the way dont get any ideas I Love woman there's nothing like it especially after having a good vegetarian meal and turning ourselves on to dance and music too! You never know where it'll lead to lol? By the way you really what the majority of people think about permaculture thats cool let me know sometime!
CancerLover87 1 year ago
@CancerLover87 I didn't fully understand everything you said, because there were a few typos. Permaculture is one of the most outstanding forms of agriculture that is readily available for practice. We have simple solutions from nature, yet we resort to complex applications to "solve" our problems.
Permaculture makes use of meat, not veganism.
Veganism, hippie music, and paganism will simply turn people away from what they should really listen too.
ScopedOUT2 1 year ago
@ScopedOUT2
What are you doing to oppose empire?
To be truly radical is to make hope possible rather than despair convincing.
Raymond Williams
hiddenthink 1 year ago
@ScopedOUT2 ...how do these folks have anything to do with why the majority is not doing the right thing? What a slam... so are we supposed to worship some other god or entity in the sky and let this place continue to go to shit? or, do something positive? Maybe looking at the small percent who has been manipulating and controlling this planet would be a better place to point your finger.... Its all dominance, control and ego... if we could leave eachother alone and mind our own business...cont
Lemure333 1 year ago
@ScopedOUT2 ...live and let live... hippies and conscious people will be conscious people... you don't have to live here with them but we don't all need to fight. I have a hard time believing ideas like this are the reason this place is so fucked. Come on, look at the small percentage who has been ruling the world for thousands of years ...now there is a good pace for you to point your feelings of being sick.
Lemure333 1 year ago
@ScopedOUT2 Why does the show of love and affection anger you ? I think you lack love and that is why you have this reaction. But it is okay. We understand and we will take you in and you can come plant a garden with us whenever you want to.
TheOriginalEntz 1 year ago
@ScopedOUT2 I'm not sure which is more scary; the fact that one person would make a statement like this, or that it's the highest rated comment here. Is this really what humanity has become?
petrus4 1 year ago
Yes indoctrinated dumb down and easy to manipulate whatta shame rite?
Elvception1979 1 year ago
@ScopedOUT2 This is why people dont do the right thing? What IS the reason to do something good, then? To make more money only? To just understand the earth not becuse you care, but because you can earn more from it that way? If someone wants to love their natural surrounding, let them. Its not bad, not good. Its THEIR choice. None of them are telling you what to think or do. It just works for them. As for why people make bad choices, I doubt its due to 'hippies' who hug trees. Highly doubt it.
Pecarrie 1 year ago
Relax brother what have Hippie and vegan ever done to you?
Elvception1979 1 year ago
@ScopedOUT2 Sounds like his brain has been Scoped out.
This idiot is probably in the N.R.A, a redneck, and has a brain the size of a pea, but couldn't grow a pea.
Poor closed minded fool, who will never grow up, let alone grow anything.
skelligs63 1 year ago
@skelligs63 wow that is really rude to say...
glockman1727ak47 1 year ago
For all those who cannot resist attacking this video with rants about superficiality or spiritual mumbo-jumbo should really take a moment and look in the mirror and go hug someone they hate! This video is not about portraying perfect concept of permaculture. Its to inspire and navigate all of us to some other possiblity. The world is in High anxiety and angry and pissed. Take it out somewhere else! Holding hands could be the best thing we could all be doing. So stop your ranting please!
druwin 1 year ago 15
@druwin If I hated anyone - I might. As for holding hands - I don't really know what that'd solve. Kinda hard to tend crops like that. ;o)
I return again to my original comment - things like this put masses of people off looking further into things like permaculture. Things like this are the reason organic (even organic monoculture) food - let alone permaculture - is seen as a crusty, yoghurt weaving activity for rich kids by many.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@druwin well said, im trying to decide whether i should do agriculture or tree surgery at college. ive only just heard about permaculture sounds interesting.
OneMove33 1 year ago
do you have to be a pot smoking dirty hippie to be into permicultur
superrobotmunkyman 1 year ago
@druwin I liked this video! I liked the chance to see these people and learn what they are doing. But...it dawned on me it would actually be a more interesting piece to reflect on to interview some of the people who are critical and uncomfortable with it, as well as someone along the lines of psychoanalyst Alice Miller who could explain some of the kinds of child abuse, schooling, etc. which put people into the "stupor" mentioned in this video, where they are afraid to feel and relate.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
ThirteenFingers, You sound very angry! You sound very right!
druwin 1 year ago
@druwin I'm not angry at all. Far from it. I've had a great day tending my crops. If I sound miffed it's only because I'm discussing things with someone who insists on running around what I've said, misrepresenting it with comments littered with assumptions which prove they really have no clue what I'm about despite my spelling it out, and apparently very little clue what PERMAnent agriCULTURE is about.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@druwin
hey m8, i didnt know that people singing songs and using permaculture where also totally open at using "hate triggers" like:
you sound very angry
you soung very right
Walk the talk m8
"hate triggers" are just for manipulative media.
bananito3 1 year ago
Why do I have to drive 100's of miles to the middle of the countryside.
We need the suburbs transformed. Not someplace isolated from the average working people...fukkk all these retarded lawns....
pgm98387 1 year ago
@pgm98387
Check out the Dervais family in Pasadena, CA...there's a documentary about them and they have a good website too.
csreeves 1 year ago
@ToyMaster83 I totally agree in every way.
crewlla 1 year ago
@cafekawaii
totally agree. i've been looking for a decent, informative permaculture video on youtube for about a 1/2 hour and all I'm getting is hippie ego and double-talk.
Dastutmirleid 1 year ago
@Dastutmirleid try looking up Biodynamics; so much more than hippie singing but bringing in science and cosmic energy; moon cycles all into building a healthy non chemical way of gardening and going back to basic principles.
shazandjoe 1 year ago
@Dastutmirleid
Here's what I did...prior to ending up on this crappy excuse for a Permaculture video...google Permaculture...goto the Wikipedia link....read till your eyes bleed....then watch all the video links at the bottom of the page....especially the ones with one of the founders, Bill Mollison. Yes, that's all Free....enjoy.
csreeves 1 year ago
I am Akimel O'otham from the Arizona Gila River Tribe. Im so happy that some non native american people are starting to realize the truth. cuz permaculture is what our culture is all about. so keep fighting the good fight and spread the knowledge of permaculture. Its the best thing to happen ever!
Venumusone 1 year ago 2
wanna see proper permaculture? watch videos from "sepp holzer" he is a down to earth farmer, practicing real permaculture for years in the mountains of austria (not australia)
ladylillycroft 2 years ago
@ladylillycroft I agree Holzer is a great man, I want to visit his land and learn from him, but he says that all of us have to experiment our own way and that his is his own pc, so maybe these people have the right to post a video of themselves on yt about their vision. what about us, do we have a pc way for ourselves? now is the time to do all what we can to be permaculturists in the real world.
bless you, Elena
elmadas 1 year ago
Comment removed
ladylillycroft 2 years ago
i agree, all this shit scares normal people AWAY from stuff like permaculture and earth ships. too bad these hippies cant see that.
Ullbritt 2 years ago 4
You know, I'm pretty eco-inclined to start with (I'm even wearing a green wooly jumper as I type this! Haha) but even I was put off by the holding hands in a circle and wierd songs.
The thing is, it's totally possible to live sustainably without getting into all the spiritual mumbo jumbo that's so often wrapped up in eco issues.
It drives me nuts, to be honest... and I'm absolutely convinced it puts masses of people off investigating further.
Ah well.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago 5
BTW It goes against the principles to Permaculture to imagine that there should be a single face that represents it --- locally adapted diversity is what its all about. The movement has never had centralized control over its "image" and has not tried, except for requiring Certification for Teachers, which only takes paying for a course from somebody Certified. There are only "principles" and these are extremely abstract, not clarifying what is ideological doctrine or not.
coreolis7 1 year ago
@coreolis7
Excellent point...perhaps the Vatican, or the Federal Reserve, or the Food and Drug Administration would like to adapt "Permaculture" into their "local" agenda as well. (as if they haven't in their own way already) The point is, special interest groups ALWAYS attempt to adapt good ideas to their plight....when it should be the special interest groups that are adapting to the good idea.
csreeves 1 year ago
@csreeves euh why would the federal reserve and the church want permaculture? It would completely destroy their foundation, power and wealth.
PAGANRoots 1 year ago
@PAGANRoots The fed, I'll grant you. But the church? How exactly does living in a completely sustainable way have any effect on the foundation of the church (or the church in any way at all for that matter).
If you can respond without referring to a medieval caricature of the church (catholic, protestant "high", free or otherwise) more akin to the Monty Python "Spanish Inquisition" sketches than any current reality that would be fab.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers because the church still got a big influence on people and how they should live, like with anti-conception and abortus. The church does have a lot of conservative thoughts and my comment was not an attack on religion in any way. Large corporations that abuse the world with globalization are a huge problem and I should have mentioned that instead.
PAGANRoots 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers
Exactly! I kinda sucks that some may see this video and make a decision about what Permaculture is. While I don't disagree with the majority of the definitions given, I'd much rather have Bill Mollison be giving the definition under a video titled "What is Permaculture"...and if the Lama club is recruiting, I'd appreciate them not glomming on to the idea of Permaculture to do it...even if it IS something the club participates in.
Permaculture is way bigger than the Lama club
csreeves 1 year ago
I'll take the time to read the Wiki page (you mentioned in another post) and watch the Mollison videos but for now...
...time to jump on my bike, pedal to my allotment and get a bit more soil ready to plant up. :) Cheers for the response!
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers maybe because we killed the Gods? modern society trains us to hate spirituality, the media is always ridiculing people who believe in something. Fact is, that spirituality and wisdom is a big threat to globalization and capitalism.
PAGANRoots 1 year ago
@PAGANRoots To kill the gods they would need to exist to begin with. I will qualify that by saying I am *not* an atheist.
I am not trained to hate spirituality, but I think *mother* nature and the type of spiritualism shown in this video are, as I described them, mumbo jumbo.
The natural systems and cycles observed in organic, seasonal living are just that, natural... as opposed to supernatural/spiritual.
Don't mistake my comment on this video as a closed minded reaction, it is far from it.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers consider for a moment what has happened: for hundreds of years one particular culture has gone around the planet bringing a "better way of life and religion" to the "barbaric" cultures and essentially setting about destroying them. (intentional or not) Now the interesting thing is that many of these "barbaric" cultures had these things in common: community, standing in cricles and singing or dancing, living in harmony of nature. While the other one had lost touch with this.
bluelotuspetals 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals I find that view overly simplistic. You're indirectly saying christianity is out of touch with nature, doesn't have singing and dancing and that is, simply put, nonsense. I'm not going to make a defence of one religion or another here, but the disconnection from nature has nothing to do with religion or any old culture. It's entirely down to consumerism.
Note that until the last 100 to 200 years almost everyone, Christian or otherwise, was in direct contact with the land.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers and I've never stated any such thing about Christianity, those were your perceptions. In fact the cultures who live closest to the earth and seem to be at one with it DO in fact view all of nature as a spiritual being/presence which we are all part of. There is no divorce from that in their way of thinking only in the thinking of the dominant culture which has lost touch with the ties to this essential way of being. As such it would strike them as odd, weird and "super" natural.
bluelotuspetals 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals You don't say explicitly, but you did imply. You're in a country where the "dominant culture" has the "one religion" of Christianity. It doesn't take a genius to join the dots.
The cultures living closest to the earth may see it in a Monistic way, but that doesn't make it so. The view of nature as a sentient being is born out of ignorance of what's going on. Supernatural means something above nature. Nature minus spiritualism is not supernatural.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers "ay see it in a Monistic way, but that doesn't make it so. The view of nature as a sentient being is born out of ignorance of what's going on. Supernatural means something above nature. Nature minus spiritualism is not supernatural." is precisely the viewpoint of one who lives in a culture divorced from nature. When you live it you will experience it. Until then it will remain an ellusive idea to you.
bluelotuspetals 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals That is the viewpoint of someone who grows his own food with organic methods, polyculture planting, composting and seed saving. That is the viewpoint of one who eats locally grown, seasonal produce.That is the viewpoint of a person who sees the whole of humanity as inextricably linked to and part of nature. Divorced from nature? Far, far from it. I just see it for what it is, and it is a balanced system with uncountable members, not a monistic being.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals contd.
Even your terms "the dominant culture" and "closest to the earth" cloud things. Define your terms please. Are you referring to consumerism or something else? Which cultures live closest?
Again, the problem is consumerism. There are quite literally millions of people around the world who don't live a consumerist life and who live seasonally and organically without having a monistic outlook.
The two are not related in anything other than the minds of those who believe it.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers "Even your terms "the dominant culture" and "closest to the earth" cloud things. Define your terms please. Are you referring to consumerism or something else? Which cultures live closest?" Please do some historical study. Barring that consider how many in the oldest nature cultures had McDonalds in their midst before the arrival of the western man.
bluelotuspetals 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals That was precisely my point. Consumerism (of which McDonalds is a prime example) and not religion is the problem.
Maybe you're the one who needs to do homework: Until Europeans arrived with horses and rifles, native Americans would stampede Bison off a cliff and let what they didn't need rot. Since you won't specify - please shoehorn that scenario into your romanticised vision of the "oldest nature cultures" having such a light touch. Again, not religion... consumerism.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers you were the one who brought religion into this. To be spiritual doesn't mean religion. Again the viewpoint of one divorced from the experience. And if you look at how they lived it would be unlikely that any native tribe would let all that meat and materials rot. Everything was used. Permaculture is based on the tradition of using everything and not wasting it as one would in the current consumer society. Europeans first arriving always made assumptions about what they saw.
bluelotuspetals 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals YOU brought religion into it with "better way of life and religion". I don't even want to talk about it! I'm talking about consumerism and spiritualism. "Everything was used" the pinnacle romantic view of first peoples. They did so *after* they got horses and rifles but until then waste was common. "Unlikely" in your view of them, but it happened in real life. The sheer workload of butchering and preserving a single kill proves the idea of preserving a whole herd to be nonsense.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals I'll spell it out again now just to try and wrestle this back on track.
"The thing is, it's totally possible to live sustainably without getting into all the spiritual mumbo jumbo that's so often wrapped up in eco issues.
It drives me nuts, to be honest... and I'm absolutely convinced it puts masses of people off investigating further."
See now?
Arguing that dismissing the bogus spiritualism shown here means being divorced from nature is way off. The two aren't one.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago 4
@thirteenfingers
They are ONE. How can you separate permaculture from the spirit of all things?
druwin 1 year ago
@druwin One one hand, they can be separated because permaculture is a system of sustainable agriculture, biodiversity and complete, complementary systems for productions, design and so on... that's it.
On the other hand they can be separated because permaculture works in a logical, rational and systematic way whereas the spiritual hokum tied up in it is just that, hokum.
All is one only in so far as we are all physically part of nature - but the monistic "spirit of all things" is nonsense.
thirteenfingers 1 year ago
@thirteenfingers in response to all your responses: Go and live with a native tribe in the bush and live off the land in a purely organic fashion for a few months and after that we can have a more rounded and open discussion. At this point its purely conjecture on your part.
bluelotuspetals 1 year ago
@bluelotuspetals Are you KIDDING? I grow food, I can make cordage, shelter, fire and more from natural materials and you're calling it conjecture? Are you nuts?
I already live seasonally in a purely organic fashion - but now I need to live in the bush thousands of miles from my friends and family? For what? It's not going to make the spiritual side real (it is HOKUM) and all the rest... I already do. You dismiss all I say out of hand and you talk about open and rounded? Nuts!
This is surreal.