compare that with muslim nations where every other religion is attacked. Bottom line the Jews have the right tothe homeland and the control of that in the ancient state of Israel. Conquest and diaspora by Roman Legions and 13 centuries of Muslim terrorism cannot extinguish that right. Get over it
anpother lie the Jews were not numerically superior to the attacking armies in 1948 they wer under a ten to one disadvatage, had no fighter planes or tanks, and every military expert in the world predicted that they would be crushed. another detail you forgot to mention is that Jordan ran jerusalem as a clsoed city not open to Jews until 67, and that ever since then the Jews have protected the Muslim temple Even though it was built on the site of the main Jewish one.
@johnb66y I concede that the Israeli state was outnumbered, but they had better weapons and trained fighters. In fact, contrary to what you say, military experts fully expected Israeli forces to be able to win out against superior numbers because they indeed did have superior equipment and training. This is not my opinion, this is a matter of public record and is easily verifiable by anybody who wishes to read any independent analysis of the events.
You were doing well until you started with the lies about the population in the first place the Bedouins who populated Palestine were nomads who had proffited from the kurdish invasion and the Roman diaspora. They actively sopposed the jewish return effoert s for 1900 years. It was not until the ottoman empire weakened in the mid 1800's that they allowed Jews to buy there way back in to their own historic nation.
@johnb66y If you can recommend any historically factual documents for me to read to support your arguments I will gladly read them, but I think we will disagree on this.
100anticult - this is not the place for anti-Jew sentiment. This video is about the actions of the State of Israel and so I hope you understand why I have removed your comment.
whypatcondellisntfun - you're young, put on backpack, take charter flight to israel & see for yourself. you'll find people with more compassion for palestinians than your present conception allows. ha ha! you might end up a zionist. btw, pat condell IS fun.
And that is the best you have to offer is it? Having failed to win in a rational debate, in fact, having failed to sustain a single point though you made several ones, you resort to personal attacks insinuating that I'm too young. You do not know how old I am as it is not something I've published on YouTube or anywhere else on the net, so how you came to your conclusion is beyond me.
sorry. no attack/no condescension meant. my typed word didn't carry my intended tone. from beginning my impression had been you have good intentions in your concern, but that you don't have enough experience with the story.
a former israel prime minister, golda meir, once said these 2 simple things:
1. "the arabs can fight, and lose, and return to fight another day. israel can only lose once."
2. "peace will come when the arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
I give up. You have not actually managed to sustain a single point, constantly changing the points you make without actually conceding that you have been wrong on the last point you made is an irrational tactic. And secondly, I pointed out to you that 4 children were left for 4 days in a room with 12 dead people, including their decaying mothers. The IDF had it within their power to help the International Red Cross to remove the children to safety. They stood by and watched.
whypatcondellisntfun - it's simplistic to say idf could have helped those children. we don't have objective facts of incident. part of israel army basic training is detailed course/discussion called code of conduct. see wikipedia "Israel_Defense_Forces". soldiers must follow code and report any violations. idf is a defense force, not a crusade force.
I replied to this but it didn't show up. I say again, independent report is here: watch?v=IopjMpu9aVo
Why did the IDF not let the International Red Cross in for 4 days? This is illegal under international law. Why, when the Red Cross did get in, the the IDF not help evacuate 4 children? Again, illegal under international law... This is not the only incident. Attacking a UN school and killing 40 people seeking shelter. Inhumane. Denying food, water, fuel, medical supplies, inhumane!
@Zolg08 Hamas is a legally elected government. Israel has declared war on Hamas. Therefore, Shalit is a prisoner of war and Hamas should abide by the proper international conventions dealing with POWs.
Israel is also obliged in international law to render assistance to the injured during war.
However, non-compliance of Hamas does not preclude compliance of Israel to the law.
I do agree that allowing the Red Cross access to Shalit would be an enormous act of good faith with Israel from Hamas.
Whilst I agree that the video you highlight points out the hypocrisy of so-called Muslim leaders, it does not change the facts of Israel committing a genocide. Two wrongs do not make a right.
genocide? hammas themselves have killed more palestinians in gaza than israel has. hammas kill any palestinian who disagrees. israel tries to avoid it in incredible ways. israel is in-fact liberating palestinians. see 2 more short youtube videos:
I've no doubt that Hamas also has blood on their hands, I've already said this, but Hamas does not have the backing of the western world and is not given military weapons for free from the US. Is Hamas a legitimate government? I don't think so. But the Israeli government is. This is not about the wrongs that Hamas do, this is about Israel breaking international law, occupying a territory and starving the people within it. Don't you see that this war started 60 years ago?
whypatcondellisntfun - how many times must i say, israelis do NOT WANT to occupy anyone or starve them. war started 60 years ago, and israel desperately looking for responsible arab with authority to end it. so far, egypt and jordan did right thing, and NO problems. israelis go there as tourists. amman is an easy drive from jerusalem.
before fatah/hamas took over, there were no fences, no border, no checkpoints. palestinian unemployment was less than 5%, and they worked/travelled anywhere they wanted in israel. palestinians were covered by israel national health insurance & treated in israeli hospitals. walls were put up, and gaza turned into a prison, ONLY because fatah/hammas kept sending suicide bombers and fired over 7,200 rockets into israel since 2005. its crazy to think any israel wants to hurt palestinians.
I Googled the health insurance thing, Israel occupied Gaza and offered Palestinians the chance to pay $36 per month per person for health insurance. Before that, health care was free! Between 1967 and 1991, all requests to build new facilities, even private hospitals, were rejected by the Israeli Ministry of Health, resulting in a catastrophic shortage of hospital beds in Gaza. The fact remains that Israel is occupying Gaza, and even parts of the West Bank still.
health insurance was free because payment was made by employer as part of employee's salary, per law, like for all israelis. under hamas they don't pay taxes to israel govt, so no health insurance. by the way, israel still DOES give health service to their really needy. hospitals in gaza WERE built by israel. israel gave training + best equipment & drugs. it's common sense. patients didn't come in to already overloaded israel hospitals. why could you imagine israel would say no?
Let us say that the US occupied Afghanistan and offered 'free' health insurance as long as the employers of Afghanistan paid it, would that make sense? Let us also assume that $34 is an awful lot of money when the majority of the people are unemployed and the economy is in ruins! In the western world $34 is a lot of money to pay when you are used to a free health system which the Palestinians were.
you misunderstand. prior fatah/hammas, unemployment in palestine was less than 5%. it was booming economy. israelis are covered by national medical care. working people pay taxes monthly, deducted at source & xfrd to gov't by employer. israeli unemployed are covered by social security (& no one says it's perfect). fatah/hammas took over the lives of palestinians, spent money on rockets, 50 kilometres/30 miles of war tunnels, but no civilian bomb shelters. neighboring arab governments hate them.
I don't disagree with your points about Hamas, they have blood on their hands too, but this still does not give Israel the right to occupy Gaza and place an economic blockade on the people there. Cont...
Google "Raffeq al-Natshe". In '99 Palestinian unemployment was 20%. Israel is managing a fund for levies equalizing labor costs, into which Israeli employers pay the difference between the salaries of Palestinian workers and Israeli workers, on whose behalf employers make social benefit contributions. The fund was set up in the late sixties to equalise the cost of employing Palestinians to that of employing Israelis to prevent employers from preferring Palestinian workers.
nonsense lies twisting the facts, and doesn't make economic sense. cheaper labor = cheaper to produce goods, build buildings, work in factories, do export trade etc. the economy GAINS, doesn't lose. everyone wins. israelis had their cars fixed in gaza and sat in cafe. israelis went to palestinian dentists. israelis bought palestinian furniture. palestinian agriculture was exported thru israel ben gurion intl airport. there's no reason whatsoever that israel would want palestinians to suffer!!!
No reason why Israel would not want the Palestinians to suffer? How about the refugees that fled Israel and have been denied the right to return to their property? Why has Israel confiscated land which rightfully belongs to Palestinian refugees?
The video above discusses this. The point is, Palestinians want an independent state, not one which relies upon Israel for export and import!
We are going in circles here, you made 2 of these points already.
1. We have already discussed this, the Jewish refugees you speak of, are they being killed by the actions of a state? I support them in a quest for justices if they have been forced out of their own home and it has been illegally confiscated
2. And? What is your point? They are Israeli citizens, no?
3. Why does there *have* to be a country with a Jewish majority and why should it be built undemocratically on stolen land?
ethnic cleansing? see wikipedia article "Palestine". total christians+muslims in palestine: 1800 = 268,000 1890 = 489,000 1914 = 595,000 1922 = 660,000 1931 = 849,000 1947 = 1,324,000 this is because jews made infrastructure for jobs. arabs arrived as migrant workers, stayed and eventually called themselves palestinians. per web site Palestinian National Authority - Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, number of palestinians in israel: 1948 = 154,900 2003 = 1,068,885
What point are you trying to prove here? You are giving the total population for each of those years, and in each of those years, Muslims far outnumbered both Jews and Christians combined. What idiot would then decide to create a Jewish state without having a proper vote?
As I quoted above, Balfour thought that Zionism was more important than any majority group of people. That was clearly wrong and undemocratic.
zionism is the idea to have one country in the world where jews can be a majority, live normal lives, and not be bidden to the whims of sick societies. zionism has never aimed to harm any minority, and does more than you can imagine to be fair and just.
Zionism specifically relates to building a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Funny that the Jews and Arabs lived together in Palestine in relative peace for hundreds of years according to your own statistics, and yet Zionists felt the need to create a brand new state by stealing land from another people? Palestine was a state with Jews, Muslims and Christians, they should have been given a democratic voice, they were not, instead, the UN virtually imposed a new state on the region.
Surely there are no Palestinians in Israel? Surely only Israeli citizens live in Israel? Israel is committing a genocide against Palestinians, not Israelis.
according to official Arab statistics, 856,000 Jews left their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970s. The World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries estimates that Jewish property in Arab countries would be valued today at more than $300 billion and Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands at 100,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the State of Israel). see wikipedia article Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands.
If a Jew was forced from an Arab country, turned into a refugee and their land stolen from them illegally, then I for one stand up for that Jew and say that they must be given proper justice and compensation for his is the same ideological plight as the Palestinians.
I'm not aware that Jewish refugees are currently the victims of state sanctioned terror, an illegal occupation, and an economic blockade designed to starve them to death and render them without power and medical supplies.
according to official Arab statistics, 856,000 Jews left their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970s. The World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries estimates that Jewish
property in Arab countries would be valued today at more than $300 billion and Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands at 100,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the State of Israel). see wikipedia article Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands.
to understand history of israel, and put things into proportion, take a few minutes to see a youtube video. even if you want to call it propaganda, watch it thru to the end.
I watched it. It made a few good points, but the fact remains that whilst Israel used UN General Assembly Resolution 181 as a basis to declare independence, it then ignored the boundaries set out in that resolution, not only that, the resolution guaranteed Israel the most economically viable area of land, which may be one reason why it is so economically successful, another reason being patronage from the US (between $80-90bn in grants between 1949-2000 alone!).
?? look at the video again. israel DID accept the boundaries, but arab countries invaded with intent to destroy all. israel was NOT given the most economically viable area of land. USA grants are not patronage, they're the best investment. israel saved usa a fortune with technology & was america's best forward base of operations for much activity, without usa having to send over fleets of ships etc. israel helped america during cold war with communism saving lives of many usa soldiers.
Israel did not accept the boundaries, otherwise Israel would now exist only within those boundaries. UN security council resolution 242 emphasises the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war", Israel ignores this fact.
However you look at it, Israel received $80-90bn of free money between 1947 and 2000. Israel cannot now claim to be successful through *just* the hard work of it's citizens.
Perhaps the investment is worth it if you consider Isreal to be a US puppet.
but hey its easy to sit behind a computer far in england and critisize the state of israel and its acts without talking about the other side and about what THEY are doing,pretty easy right?i wanna see what you will say when you live here for 1 week and see for ur self what its like when they shot rockets at ur cities on daily
First of all basicly, the palesninians do have a country of theyre own,jordan which is 60 ot 80% palestinian im not quite sure...and yeah they do not have an army they have terror orginizations and they know how to defend themselfs thats for sure and theyre not doing it in a good way
its funny chuz while they bomb up in school buses killing innocent kids and shooting misles on daily on schools we are the terrorists right?
You but forward some emotional arguments, but as I said in my video, the answers will not come down the barrel of a gun or from behind a bulldozer. Nobody is innocent in this situation, but the evidence is that the state of Israel is in contravention of Human Rights... Perhaps if you give Palestinians their dignity, land and property back through a meaningful political process, they will be less likely to attempt to take it back by terrorist acts?
well it has certainly put things into perpective for me. as far as i see it the video is based soley on historical events and major events at that .. these are not disputed! facts truly uproot and destroy any falshood that exist. it amazes me when people are presented with this they move the debate to more recent evenst issues/facts rather than acknowledging the root causes of the ontext they find themsleves in. oh well you cant convince those who wont listen....WELL DONE!!
U say u base this on facts, some of ure facts ARE OFF, u choose to leave out similar facts that JUSTIFY Israel's prejudices, and u have manipulated some facts to make ure point, that Israel is wrong with what it has done/ is doing to the palestinians... and in some cases ure facts are so bad that u say we are doing things that we are not... i live here (Israel) I think i would know better.
You have made lots of general denials, care to get specific about what you think I have manipulated? Care to point out exactly where I'm wrong? Care to justify oppression and apartheid?
u admit isael is prejudice then..at last . oh by the way palastinians didnt kill 6 million so why are u prejudced against them ? GREAT VIDEO by the way.. i learnt a lot...many thanks, may u get great reward for this.
How do you substantiate your claims that Arabs dominate the UN? On what basis do you make the claim? Could it not be simply that Israel is abusing human rights, or do you not recognise that fact?
I agree that some Arab nations could be seen to be fascist and theocratic, that doesn't give Israel any right to abuse human rights, does it?
You say I'm talking garbage, but that does not disprove anything I have asserted here. My videos are backed up with factual evidence, so I guess it is you who is trash talking.
With regards to Sharia law, no, I don't support it. I don't even understand it. Do you? But the fact is, Sharia law is legal in the UK under existing arbitration laws, so people are free to use Sharia law for civil cases at least. This will not change unless current laws on arbitration are amended.
Because, and I'm coming out of left field here, he thinks you are racist and that you are claiming that "British Asians" (as in, all the British Asians in the UK) are uneducated and ignorant, as opposed to "BritishAsians" the YouTube user being uneducated and ignorant. He was coming to the defence of British Asians not BritishAsians, Do you see?
when theres a war between russia and georgia and 2,000 people get killed the world says nothing! when milions of people dy in wars all over africa the world does nothing! but when the gaza strip has no electricity for a few days for launching rockets at our cities we are called terrorists and you guys say we are commiting crimes against humanity,way to go!
I condemn any war of aggression. I live in England and there was ample coverage of the Russian invasion of Georgia, in fact, coverage of it smothered news broadcasts for weeks.
Conversely, the decades of human rights abuse facilitated by Israel against Palestinians occasionally makes the end of the news, and even then it's only when a 'militant' Palestinian mounts an attack in a bulldozer against a state that is in contravention of international law.
Its not just a "a militant palestinian on a bulldozer"! im talking about hunders of missiles on israeli soil every day! im talking about about terrorists blowing them selfs up on restaurents killing innocents! they AIM at our civilians thats the entire difference! you said the solution wont come from a barrel of a gun,thats right we should stop fighting,we did stop fighting untill they started shoting again so in this casee the solution will come from a barrel of a gun
I see, Now all Palestinians are to blame for the actions of those who want to achieve justice through aggression, so this justifies Israel in literally starving all of Palestine and illegally withholding tax revenue? Sounds like genocide aimed at innocents to me.
Can you prove that 'hundreds' of missiles rain down on Israel from Palestine daily, or are you exaggerating? Consider that Palestinians cannot afford to purchase hundreds of missiles, where do they come from, then?
Again you make it seem as if Palestinians are the first aggressors. Remember, Israel stole land and property in the first place. That does not justify violence, but surely, if you treat people like animals, you must expect them to behave like animals in return?
Basicly when people behave like animels you treat them like animels.
how did we steal the land and when?
as you said "all the palestinians are to blame for actions of those who want to achieve justice" i can say the same thing about the people in the cities serounding gaza.
who said the pals are buying those missiles?theyre MAKING them
do i have to proof it? open the israeli news and ull see the reports,of course,the world news dont bother talking about that right?it only shows how the pals
"All the palestinians are to blame for the actions of those who want to acgieve justice through aggression"
first of all,Hamas is to be blame because if they REALLY wanted peace they would stop shooting and come to the table
innocent people are suffering because of hamas!
untill hamas is not overthrown there will be no peace or peace talks becuase hamas does not want peace! if they really cared about the innocent people on theyre OWN side they wouldnt shot at our cities because they knew
there are innocent people suffering from both sides not just from the palestinian side..that was basicly what i was trying to say and hamas is the main cause to the unrest and not the other way around.
I don't think the UN partition plan was a valid one. It clearly did not have the support of the majority of people in Palestine, and it clearly tipped the economic balance of power towards Israel, who could have voted for it in good conscience? The UK refused to implement the plan saying it was unacceptable.
Is it your position that Israel need take no notice of international law as the UN did not get involved in fighting a war for the benefit of either Israel or Palestine?
The comment directly above this, "God bless Israel", comes from a supporter of the British National Party, a party started by a man dressed in full Nazi uniform and standing under a picture of his idol, Adolf Hitler.
@JanineRobin fairly beasily Griffin deposed that man, Tyndal, in an election in 99 and repudiated in writing the antisemitic policy a year and a half later after he and his crew had cleaned house. Stupid people and I include you in this group who fail to understand nationalist politics don't realize that the main reason Griffin had to set up the in house security was to protect the party form the Nazi thugs they tossed out. The Nazi dregs still snipe at griffin saying "race traitor"
This video is really interesting....like arab communities are really interested in sovereignty& the rule of law and all that...what a joke. Google "Black September/Jordan for some insight....a really great example of arab(Palestinian)respect for the sovereignty of a fellow arab state.
I could spend countless hours countering issues, but for what end? Both sides have all sorts of wounds...who needs to review that. Asking Israelis to commit suicide is not an option. Although some certainly argue with that.
want to get a realistic inkling as to what a "Palestinian" state would be like next to Israel...Google "Black September Jordan" and see what happened to Jordan when they took in their moslem brethren as a sign of understanding and compassion. If you mention a massacre at an arab village...google it. Avoid articles that slant one way or another. Look for articles that give the location of the village, that describe in detail what occurred in that area previous to the attack. cont.
With respect, I looked at several different articles regarding Deir Yassin, one of which was on the BBC web site which is renowned for getting facts from multiple sources before publishing.
This is so skewed that it simply presents a format for endless confusion and endless hate of both parties. Should the jews killed and expelled from Europe band together in hostile guerrilla groups and try to reclaim what was theirs? If they strap bombs on themselves and blow up Europeans at funerals,weddings etc. should people support that behavior because they were screwed and treated unjustly? If they proved the injustice...would that change anything? If you are really ...cont.
I've presented nothing but facts. 2 of the 3 documents upon which Israel stakes it's claim to independence demand that "nothing shall be done to prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine", and this clearly has not been the case.
Clearly there is blame on both sides of the debate. Please make a video countering my claims if you feel so passionately about this, I'm open to learning new things.
Please give me your views on "Black September/Jordan ? Please tell me what there is to learn about Palestinians sense of fair play with fellow arabs and then tell me why Israelis should trust them as people who pursue peace? Thanks
Yeah what are your views on this Black September/Jordan issue? It looks like a palestinian cannot be trusted no matter how close a relation he is to your people.
This video is not about Black September/Jordan. Why try to deflect attention away from international crimes by pointing the finger at other crimes? I don't know the details about Black September, but it seems to me that you are blaming the Palestinian people for the actions of a few. I don't do that with Jews or atheists or Sikhs or Hindus, and neither should you do it about the Palestinians.
xcrusaderatheist, with respect, your exact words were "...looks like a palestinian cannot be trusted..". What exactly was that meant to imply other than that Palestinians cannot be trusted.
Perhaps in the future - if you truly do not mean to be so sweepingly general about a population of people - you should think deeper about about the language you use in your comments.
make way for christ,! let us all witness what the isreali's plus there buddies have to say, explian, / try to justify there activities.
in the mean time if isreal is really brave, then send nukes to pakistan, plus the saudi kingdom, com on step forward , i am sure there is some stupid guy's who would take up this challenge, perhaps the british, or us troops, it will do all the countries, population of the world to know that without saudi, there is no other country.
ISRAEL DEFEATS HER TERRORISTS
DEAL WITH IT
Theangelahorne 10 months ago
compare that with muslim nations where every other religion is attacked. Bottom line the Jews have the right tothe homeland and the control of that in the ancient state of Israel. Conquest and diaspora by Roman Legions and 13 centuries of Muslim terrorism cannot extinguish that right. Get over it
johnb66y 1 year ago
anpother lie the Jews were not numerically superior to the attacking armies in 1948 they wer under a ten to one disadvatage, had no fighter planes or tanks, and every military expert in the world predicted that they would be crushed. another detail you forgot to mention is that Jordan ran jerusalem as a clsoed city not open to Jews until 67, and that ever since then the Jews have protected the Muslim temple Even though it was built on the site of the main Jewish one.
johnb66y 1 year ago
@johnb66y I concede that the Israeli state was outnumbered, but they had better weapons and trained fighters. In fact, contrary to what you say, military experts fully expected Israeli forces to be able to win out against superior numbers because they indeed did have superior equipment and training. This is not my opinion, this is a matter of public record and is easily verifiable by anybody who wishes to read any independent analysis of the events.
whypatcondellisntfun 9 months ago
You were doing well until you started with the lies about the population in the first place the Bedouins who populated Palestine were nomads who had proffited from the kurdish invasion and the Roman diaspora. They actively sopposed the jewish return effoert s for 1900 years. It was not until the ottoman empire weakened in the mid 1800's that they allowed Jews to buy there way back in to their own historic nation.
johnb66y 1 year ago
@johnb66y If you can recommend any historically factual documents for me to read to support your arguments I will gladly read them, but I think we will disagree on this.
whypatcondellisntfun 9 months ago
The problem will be solved when Messiah returns, but it is still our duty to pray for peace and promote healthy, happy, prolong life!
ksebasti100 1 year ago
100anticult - this is not the place for anti-Jew sentiment. This video is about the actions of the State of Israel and so I hope you understand why I have removed your comment.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
i cant do anything ... just praying to allah ... i hope allah will make the war end
L17061412 3 years ago
@L17061412
Thank you, that what we should be doing. After all both Jews and Arabs are humans like us........thse youtubers don't understand that!
ksebasti100 1 year ago
whypatcondellisntfun - you're young, put on backpack, take charter flight to israel & see for yourself. you'll find people with more compassion for palestinians than your present conception allows. ha ha! you might end up a zionist. btw, pat condell IS fun.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
And that is the best you have to offer is it? Having failed to win in a rational debate, in fact, having failed to sustain a single point though you made several ones, you resort to personal attacks insinuating that I'm too young. You do not know how old I am as it is not something I've published on YouTube or anywhere else on the net, so how you came to your conclusion is beyond me.
Here is a video for you: watch?v=IopjMpu9aVo.
4 starving children. 12 dead corpses. For 4 days?
Inhumane.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
sorry. no attack/no condescension meant. my typed word didn't carry my intended tone. from beginning my impression had been you have good intentions in your concern, but that you don't have enough experience with the story.
a former israel prime minister, golda meir, once said these 2 simple things:
1. "the arabs can fight, and lose, and return to fight another day. israel can only lose once."
2. "peace will come when the arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
2GfH345N 3 years ago
I give up. You have not actually managed to sustain a single point, constantly changing the points you make without actually conceding that you have been wrong on the last point you made is an irrational tactic. And secondly, I pointed out to you that 4 children were left for 4 days in a room with 12 dead people, including their decaying mothers. The IDF had it within their power to help the International Red Cross to remove the children to safety. They stood by and watched.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
whypatcondellisntfun - it's simplistic to say idf could have helped those children. we don't have objective facts of incident. part of israel army basic training is detailed course/discussion called code of conduct. see wikipedia "Israel_Defense_Forces". soldiers must follow code and report any violations. idf is a defense force, not a crusade force.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
I replied to this but it didn't show up. I say again, independent report is here: watch?v=IopjMpu9aVo
Why did the IDF not let the International Red Cross in for 4 days? This is illegal under international law. Why, when the Red Cross did get in, the the IDF not help evacuate 4 children? Again, illegal under international law... This is not the only incident. Attacking a UN school and killing 40 people seeking shelter. Inhumane. Denying food, water, fuel, medical supplies, inhumane!
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
@whypatcondellisntfun what about the Hamas denying red cross from visiting Gilad Shalit?
just a question
Zolg08 1 year ago
@Zolg08 Hamas is a legally elected government. Israel has declared war on Hamas. Therefore, Shalit is a prisoner of war and Hamas should abide by the proper international conventions dealing with POWs.
Israel is also obliged in international law to render assistance to the injured during war.
However, non-compliance of Hamas does not preclude compliance of Israel to the law.
I do agree that allowing the Red Cross access to Shalit would be an enormous act of good faith with Israel from Hamas.
whypatcondellisntfun 1 year ago
you should see this youtube video
watch?v=AO98BA-CceI
2GfH345N 3 years ago
Whilst I agree that the video you highlight points out the hypocrisy of so-called Muslim leaders, it does not change the facts of Israel committing a genocide. Two wrongs do not make a right.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
genocide? hammas themselves have killed more palestinians in gaza than israel has. hammas kill any palestinian who disagrees. israel tries to avoid it in incredible ways. israel is in-fact liberating palestinians. see 2 more short youtube videos:
watch?v=AILb6vxUg3Y
Hannity & Colmes - Aaron Cohen, Israeli Special Forces (1/6/09)
watch?v=UtEQutztq2c
MEMRI on Fox News Channel Regarding The Currrent Conflict in the Middle East
2GfH345N 3 years ago
I've no doubt that Hamas also has blood on their hands, I've already said this, but Hamas does not have the backing of the western world and is not given military weapons for free from the US. Is Hamas a legitimate government? I don't think so. But the Israeli government is. This is not about the wrongs that Hamas do, this is about Israel breaking international law, occupying a territory and starving the people within it. Don't you see that this war started 60 years ago?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
whypatcondellisntfun - how many times must i say, israelis do NOT WANT to occupy anyone or starve them. war started 60 years ago, and israel desperately looking for responsible arab with authority to end it. so far, egypt and jordan did right thing, and NO problems. israelis go there as tourists. amman is an easy drive from jerusalem.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
before fatah/hamas took over, there were no fences, no border, no checkpoints. palestinian unemployment was less than 5%, and they worked/travelled anywhere they wanted in israel. palestinians were covered by israel national health insurance & treated in israeli hospitals. walls were put up, and gaza turned into a prison, ONLY because fatah/hammas kept sending suicide bombers and fired over 7,200 rockets into israel since 2005. its crazy to think any israel wants to hurt palestinians.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
I Googled the health insurance thing, Israel occupied Gaza and offered Palestinians the chance to pay $36 per month per person for health insurance. Before that, health care was free! Between 1967 and 1991, all requests to build new facilities, even private hospitals, were rejected by the Israeli Ministry of Health, resulting in a catastrophic shortage of hospital beds in Gaza. The fact remains that Israel is occupying Gaza, and even parts of the West Bank still.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
health insurance was free because payment was made by employer as part of employee's salary, per law, like for all israelis. under hamas they don't pay taxes to israel govt, so no health insurance. by the way, israel still DOES give health service to their really needy. hospitals in gaza WERE built by israel. israel gave training + best equipment & drugs. it's common sense. patients didn't come in to already overloaded israel hospitals. why could you imagine israel would say no?
2GfH345N 3 years ago
That makes no sense.
Let us say that the US occupied Afghanistan and offered 'free' health insurance as long as the employers of Afghanistan paid it, would that make sense? Let us also assume that $34 is an awful lot of money when the majority of the people are unemployed and the economy is in ruins! In the western world $34 is a lot of money to pay when you are used to a free health system which the Palestinians were.
Are you for real?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
you misunderstand. prior fatah/hammas, unemployment in palestine was less than 5%. it was booming economy. israelis are covered by national medical care. working people pay taxes monthly, deducted at source & xfrd to gov't by employer. israeli unemployed are covered by social security (& no one says it's perfect). fatah/hammas took over the lives of palestinians, spent money on rockets, 50 kilometres/30 miles of war tunnels, but no civilian bomb shelters. neighboring arab governments hate them.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
I don't disagree with your points about Hamas, they have blood on their hands too, but this still does not give Israel the right to occupy Gaza and place an economic blockade on the people there. Cont...
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Cont...
Google "Raffeq al-Natshe". In '99 Palestinian unemployment was 20%. Israel is managing a fund for levies equalizing labor costs, into which Israeli employers pay the difference between the salaries of Palestinian workers and Israeli workers, on whose behalf employers make social benefit contributions. The fund was set up in the late sixties to equalise the cost of employing Palestinians to that of employing Israelis to prevent employers from preferring Palestinian workers.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
nonsense lies twisting the facts, and doesn't make economic sense. cheaper labor = cheaper to produce goods, build buildings, work in factories, do export trade etc. the economy GAINS, doesn't lose. everyone wins. israelis had their cars fixed in gaza and sat in cafe. israelis went to palestinian dentists. israelis bought palestinian furniture. palestinian agriculture was exported thru israel ben gurion intl airport. there's no reason whatsoever that israel would want palestinians to suffer!!!
2GfH345N 3 years ago
No reason why Israel would not want the Palestinians to suffer? How about the refugees that fled Israel and have been denied the right to return to their property? Why has Israel confiscated land which rightfully belongs to Palestinian refugees?
The video above discusses this. The point is, Palestinians want an independent state, not one which relies upon Israel for export and import!
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
1. more jews are refugees from arab lands than palestinians from israel.
2. 20% of israeli citizens are palestine arabs.
3. there has to be one country on globe with jewish majority, so israel cannot take back palestinians who left.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
We are going in circles here, you made 2 of these points already.
1. We have already discussed this, the Jewish refugees you speak of, are they being killed by the actions of a state? I support them in a quest for justices if they have been forced out of their own home and it has been illegally confiscated
2. And? What is your point? They are Israeli citizens, no?
3. Why does there *have* to be a country with a Jewish majority and why should it be built undemocratically on stolen land?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
2GfH345N 3 years ago
What point are you trying to prove here? You are giving the total population for each of those years, and in each of those years, Muslims far outnumbered both Jews and Christians combined. What idiot would then decide to create a Jewish state without having a proper vote?
As I quoted above, Balfour thought that Zionism was more important than any majority group of people. That was clearly wrong and undemocratic.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
zionism is the idea to have one country in the world where jews can be a majority, live normal lives, and not be bidden to the whims of sick societies. zionism has never aimed to harm any minority, and does more than you can imagine to be fair and just.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
Zionism specifically relates to building a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Funny that the Jews and Arabs lived together in Palestine in relative peace for hundreds of years according to your own statistics, and yet Zionists felt the need to create a brand new state by stealing land from another people? Palestine was a state with Jews, Muslims and Christians, they should have been given a democratic voice, they were not, instead, the UN virtually imposed a new state on the region.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
ethnic cleansing? per web site Palestinian National Authority - Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics
Number of Palestinians in Israel
1948 = 154,900
1967 = 324,100
1972 = 388,800
1985 = 619,000
1990 = 728,700
1995 = 821,200
2000 = 969,300
2003 = 1,068,885
2GfH345N 3 years ago
Surely there are no Palestinians in Israel? Surely only Israeli citizens live in Israel? Israel is committing a genocide against Palestinians, not Israelis.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
according to official Arab statistics, 856,000 Jews left their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970s. The World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries estimates that Jewish property in Arab countries would be valued today at more than $300 billion and Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands at 100,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the State of Israel). see wikipedia article Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
If a Jew was forced from an Arab country, turned into a refugee and their land stolen from them illegally, then I for one stand up for that Jew and say that they must be given proper justice and compensation for his is the same ideological plight as the Palestinians.
I'm not aware that Jewish refugees are currently the victims of state sanctioned terror, an illegal occupation, and an economic blockade designed to starve them to death and render them without power and medical supplies.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
according to official Arab statistics, 856,000 Jews left their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970s. The World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries estimates that Jewish
property in Arab countries would be valued today at more than $300 billion and Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands at 100,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the State of Israel). see wikipedia article Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
Is there an echo here? I'd appreciate it if you got back to me on this point please. Was this a copy & paste error?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
i don't see repeat. sorry if there is. wouldn't do it on purpose. you can delete the repeat.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
to understand history of israel, and put things into proportion, take a few minutes to see a youtube video. even if you want to call it propaganda, watch it thru to the end.
v=Yd60coeZz4A
History behind Palestine and Israel conflict
2GfH345N 3 years ago
I watched it. It made a few good points, but the fact remains that whilst Israel used UN General Assembly Resolution 181 as a basis to declare independence, it then ignored the boundaries set out in that resolution, not only that, the resolution guaranteed Israel the most economically viable area of land, which may be one reason why it is so economically successful, another reason being patronage from the US (between $80-90bn in grants between 1949-2000 alone!).
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
?? look at the video again. israel DID accept the boundaries, but arab countries invaded with intent to destroy all. israel was NOT given the most economically viable area of land. USA grants are not patronage, they're the best investment. israel saved usa a fortune with technology & was america's best forward base of operations for much activity, without usa having to send over fleets of ships etc. israel helped america during cold war with communism saving lives of many usa soldiers.
2GfH345N 3 years ago
Israel did not accept the boundaries, otherwise Israel would now exist only within those boundaries. UN security council resolution 242 emphasises the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war", Israel ignores this fact.
However you look at it, Israel received $80-90bn of free money between 1947 and 2000. Israel cannot now claim to be successful through *just* the hard work of it's citizens.
Perhaps the investment is worth it if you consider Isreal to be a US puppet.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
but hey its easy to sit behind a computer far in england and critisize the state of israel and its acts without talking about the other side and about what THEY are doing,pretty easy right?i wanna see what you will say when you live here for 1 week and see for ur self what its like when they shot rockets at ur cities on daily
mawass1 3 years ago
First of all basicly, the palesninians do have a country of theyre own,jordan which is 60 ot 80% palestinian im not quite sure...and yeah they do not have an army they have terror orginizations and they know how to defend themselfs thats for sure and theyre not doing it in a good way
its funny chuz while they bomb up in school buses killing innocent kids and shooting misles on daily on schools we are the terrorists right?
mawass1 3 years ago
You but forward some emotional arguments, but as I said in my video, the answers will not come down the barrel of a gun or from behind a bulldozer. Nobody is innocent in this situation, but the evidence is that the state of Israel is in contravention of Human Rights... Perhaps if you give Palestinians their dignity, land and property back through a meaningful political process, they will be less likely to attempt to take it back by terrorist acts?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
The so called palestninans arent as innocent as they seem to be on the media,trust me.
mawass1 3 years ago
im gonna post the link o this everywhere :)
imranrmvarif 3 years ago
Wow, thanks for that. This was an important video for me to make as the research opened my eyes to the politics of it all.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
well it has certainly put things into perpective for me. as far as i see it the video is based soley on historical events and major events at that .. these are not disputed! facts truly uproot and destroy any falshood that exist. it amazes me when people are presented with this they move the debate to more recent evenst issues/facts rather than acknowledging the root causes of the ontext they find themsleves in. oh well you cant convince those who wont listen....WELL DONE!!
imranrmvarif 3 years ago
U say u base this on facts, some of ure facts ARE OFF, u choose to leave out similar facts that JUSTIFY Israel's prejudices, and u have manipulated some facts to make ure point, that Israel is wrong with what it has done/ is doing to the palestinians... and in some cases ure facts are so bad that u say we are doing things that we are not... i live here (Israel) I think i would know better.
orig88 3 years ago
You have made lots of general denials, care to get specific about what you think I have manipulated? Care to point out exactly where I'm wrong? Care to justify oppression and apartheid?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
u admit isael is prejudice then..at last . oh by the way palastinians didnt kill 6 million so why are u prejudced against them ? GREAT VIDEO by the way.. i learnt a lot...many thanks, may u get great reward for this.
imranrmvarif 3 years ago
What is sad is that even with proofs, some people still refuse to see the truth!
DjazairaGirl 3 years ago 4
How do you substantiate your claims that Arabs dominate the UN? On what basis do you make the claim? Could it not be simply that Israel is abusing human rights, or do you not recognise that fact?
I agree that some Arab nations could be seen to be fascist and theocratic, that doesn't give Israel any right to abuse human rights, does it?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Yet more garbage from quite possibly the most uneducated and ignorant person I have ever come across (besides BritishAsians.)
So you support Shariah Law in the UK?
VanDoodah 3 years ago
You say I'm talking garbage, but that does not disprove anything I have asserted here. My videos are backed up with factual evidence, so I guess it is you who is trash talking.
With regards to Sharia law, no, I don't support it. I don't even understand it. Do you? But the fact is, Sharia law is legal in the UK under existing arbitration laws, so people are free to use Sharia law for civil cases at least. This will not change unless current laws on arbitration are amended.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
So you admit you don't understand Islamic law?
VanDoodah 3 years ago
See my new video for a complete explanation of my position.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Apparently you're just as ignorant as a man that grew in a barn, since it shows from the way you try to carry out a "discussion".
And you're obviously just massively racist with your words claiming that British Asians are ignorant.
omernos87 3 years ago
Are you for real? BritishAsians is a user on youtube. I wasn't talking about all British Asians.
Moonbat.
VanDoodah 3 years ago
VanDoodah, perhaps you might consider the possibility that omernos87 hasn't come across BritishAsians before?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Then why did he bother to respond?
VanDoodah 3 years ago
Because, and I'm coming out of left field here, he thinks you are racist and that you are claiming that "British Asians" (as in, all the British Asians in the UK) are uneducated and ignorant, as opposed to "BritishAsians" the YouTube user being uneducated and ignorant. He was coming to the defence of British Asians not BritishAsians, Do you see?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Every country abuses human rights!
it pisses me off!
when theres a war between russia and georgia and 2,000 people get killed the world says nothing! when milions of people dy in wars all over africa the world does nothing! but when the gaza strip has no electricity for a few days for launching rockets at our cities we are called terrorists and you guys say we are commiting crimes against humanity,way to go!
mawass1 3 years ago
I condemn any war of aggression. I live in England and there was ample coverage of the Russian invasion of Georgia, in fact, coverage of it smothered news broadcasts for weeks.
Conversely, the decades of human rights abuse facilitated by Israel against Palestinians occasionally makes the end of the news, and even then it's only when a 'militant' Palestinian mounts an attack in a bulldozer against a state that is in contravention of international law.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Its not just a "a militant palestinian on a bulldozer"! im talking about hunders of missiles on israeli soil every day! im talking about about terrorists blowing them selfs up on restaurents killing innocents! they AIM at our civilians thats the entire difference! you said the solution wont come from a barrel of a gun,thats right we should stop fighting,we did stop fighting untill they started shoting again so in this casee the solution will come from a barrel of a gun
mawass1 3 years ago
its pretty simple
they dont shot-we let gas and food in
they shot-we dont let anything in, simple as that.
mawass1 3 years ago
I see, Now all Palestinians are to blame for the actions of those who want to achieve justice through aggression, so this justifies Israel in literally starving all of Palestine and illegally withholding tax revenue? Sounds like genocide aimed at innocents to me.
Can you prove that 'hundreds' of missiles rain down on Israel from Palestine daily, or are you exaggerating? Consider that Palestinians cannot afford to purchase hundreds of missiles, where do they come from, then?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Again you make it seem as if Palestinians are the first aggressors. Remember, Israel stole land and property in the first place. That does not justify violence, but surely, if you treat people like animals, you must expect them to behave like animals in return?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Basicly when people behave like animels you treat them like animels.
how did we steal the land and when?
as you said "all the palestinians are to blame for actions of those who want to achieve justice" i can say the same thing about the people in the cities serounding gaza.
who said the pals are buying those missiles?theyre MAKING them
do i have to proof it? open the israeli news and ull see the reports,of course,the world news dont bother talking about that right?it only shows how the pals
mawass1 3 years ago
suffer and says notihng about the israeli side
mawass1 3 years ago
"All the palestinians are to blame for the actions of those who want to acgieve justice through aggression"
first of all,Hamas is to be blame because if they REALLY wanted peace they would stop shooting and come to the table
innocent people are suffering because of hamas!
untill hamas is not overthrown there will be no peace or peace talks becuase hamas does not want peace! if they really cared about the innocent people on theyre OWN side they wouldnt shot at our cities because they knew
mawass1 3 years ago
we would react.
there are innocent people suffering from both sides not just from the palestinian side..that was basicly what i was trying to say and hamas is the main cause to the unrest and not the other way around.
mawass1 3 years ago
oh and my msgs appear upside down...^^
mawass1 3 years ago
I don't think the UN partition plan was a valid one. It clearly did not have the support of the majority of people in Palestine, and it clearly tipped the economic balance of power towards Israel, who could have voted for it in good conscience? The UK refused to implement the plan saying it was unacceptable.
Is it your position that Israel need take no notice of international law as the UN did not get involved in fighting a war for the benefit of either Israel or Palestine?
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
God bless Israel
MANCKIE 3 years ago
The comment directly above this, "God bless Israel", comes from a supporter of the British National Party, a party started by a man dressed in full Nazi uniform and standing under a picture of his idol, Adolf Hitler.
Figure that out.
JanineRobin 3 years ago 2
@JanineRobin fairly beasily Griffin deposed that man, Tyndal, in an election in 99 and repudiated in writing the antisemitic policy a year and a half later after he and his crew had cleaned house. Stupid people and I include you in this group who fail to understand nationalist politics don't realize that the main reason Griffin had to set up the in house security was to protect the party form the Nazi thugs they tossed out. The Nazi dregs still snipe at griffin saying "race traitor"
johnb66y 1 year ago
pity that arabs hate jews so much that they are willing to use the Pals as a tool to keep the israelis on the hot seat.
pity that religion exists and creates the idea of "holy land" that needs to be fought over.
Elvisdogg 3 years ago
This video is really interesting....like arab communities are really interested in sovereignty& the rule of law and all that...what a joke. Google "Black September/Jordan for some insight....a really great example of arab(Palestinian)respect for the sovereignty of a fellow arab state.
AgouraMo 3 years ago
I could spend countless hours countering issues, but for what end? Both sides have all sorts of wounds...who needs to review that. Asking Israelis to commit suicide is not an option. Although some certainly argue with that.
AgouraMo 3 years ago
want to get a realistic inkling as to what a "Palestinian" state would be like next to Israel...Google "Black September Jordan" and see what happened to Jordan when they took in their moslem brethren as a sign of understanding and compassion. If you mention a massacre at an arab village...google it. Avoid articles that slant one way or another. Look for articles that give the location of the village, that describe in detail what occurred in that area previous to the attack. cont.
AgouraMo 3 years ago
With respect, I looked at several different articles regarding Deir Yassin, one of which was on the BBC web site which is renowned for getting facts from multiple sources before publishing.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
This is so skewed that it simply presents a format for endless confusion and endless hate of both parties. Should the jews killed and expelled from Europe band together in hostile guerrilla groups and try to reclaim what was theirs? If they strap bombs on themselves and blow up Europeans at funerals,weddings etc. should people support that behavior because they were screwed and treated unjustly? If they proved the injustice...would that change anything? If you are really ...cont.
AgouraMo 3 years ago
With respect, I'm not trying to drum up hate,
I've presented nothing but facts. 2 of the 3 documents upon which Israel stakes it's claim to independence demand that "nothing shall be done to prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine", and this clearly has not been the case.
Clearly there is blame on both sides of the debate. Please make a video countering my claims if you feel so passionately about this, I'm open to learning new things.
Peace.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
Please give me your views on "Black September/Jordan ? Please tell me what there is to learn about Palestinians sense of fair play with fellow arabs and then tell me why Israelis should trust them as people who pursue peace? Thanks
AgouraMo 3 years ago
Yeah what are your views on this Black September/Jordan issue? It looks like a palestinian cannot be trusted no matter how close a relation he is to your people.
xcrusaderatheist 3 years ago
This video is not about Black September/Jordan. Why try to deflect attention away from international crimes by pointing the finger at other crimes? I don't know the details about Black September, but it seems to me that you are blaming the Palestinian people for the actions of a few. I don't do that with Jews or atheists or Sikhs or Hindus, and neither should you do it about the Palestinians.
Peace.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
what I am saying is evil sticks out in peoples minds .... I did not imply anything else.
xcrusaderatheist 3 years ago
xcrusaderatheist, with respect, your exact words were "...looks like a palestinian cannot be trusted..". What exactly was that meant to imply other than that Palestinians cannot be trusted.
Perhaps in the future - if you truly do not mean to be so sweepingly general about a population of people - you should think deeper about about the language you use in your comments.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago
make way for christ,! let us all witness what the isreali's plus there buddies have to say, explian, / try to justify there activities.
in the mean time if isreal is really brave, then send nukes to pakistan, plus the saudi kingdom, com on step forward , i am sure there is some stupid guy's who would take up this challenge, perhaps the british, or us troops, it will do all the countries, population of the world to know that without saudi, there is no other country.
beeslovehoney 3 years ago
Superb, thanks for that.
NuevoNumeroNueve 3 years ago
Yeah I agree there has to be a better solution but how to implement it both sides seem so stubborn.
ytben26 3 years ago
Hi ytben26, good to see you around again. Thanks for the comment, and yes, I agree with you.
whypatcondellisntfun 3 years ago