But to us there is but one GOD, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1Cor.8:6
For there is one GOD, and one mediator between GOD and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1Tim.2:5
That the GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. Eph.1:17
The true GOD and LORD of heaven and earth is the Almighty Father(YHWH)
I have already posted to you what Jesus taught over and over again!! Because Jesus made clear who the true GOD is, and that's the Almighty Father(Jehovah)
Everything you have posted is a distortion!! In other words, it's MOOT!!
Jesus said, what I teach(doctrine) is not mine, but belongs to the One that sent me. John.7:16
The true GOD(Jehovah) is the One that sent him!!! The Almighty Father is Jehovah, not Jesus!! The Most High is Jehovah!!
@epic103 We see the relationship between the Father and the Son the same way that we see the relationship between A man and his wife. They are equal by nature but within this there is a headship. The man is the head over his wife. This is the same for the Trinity. They are equal by nature but within this there is a headship. The Father is the head over his Son.
John 17:11" ...they may be one (ἓν), just as we are one".
@epic103 She (a wife) can stand next to her husband, be equal to him by nature and yet come under his authority and yet still be one flesh. They are one, but she can stand next to him. This can be said for the church as well. The body of Christ is one, but within this there is a headship. Pastors lead and are the head of the body. But all are One. 1 Cor 12. This is why Christ told the Father that they will be One (ἓν) just as we are one. John 17:11.
Being ONE and being THE SAME(equal) are two different statements!!
Jesus could have easily said, I and the Father are equal or I and the Father are the same, but he didn't!! He said, ONE!!! Being ONE with GOD doesn't make you the same!!
Jesus taught that he is not the same or equal with GOD!! Jesus made clear, the only true GOD and LORD of heaven and earth is the Almighty Father!!
@epic103 Well it actually does. One pair of socks are equal. To be one means that you are in union. Like I said, a man and wife come into Union together; meaning, they become one. Eph 5:28 tells us that "husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies."
I can't think of anything more equal than treating your wife like your own self.
Jehovah is the English translation of Yahweh(YHWH).
When the word "LORD" is in all capitals it is a reference to the Father(Jehovah). Jehovah is the LORD our GOD!!! In other words, THE GOD(LORD) is Jehovah!!!
Jesus is the Son of the Most High, and Jehovah is the Most High GOD!!!
The kings of the earth take their stand, and the rulers gather together against the LORD, and against His Christ. Acts.4:26 - Jesus is the Christ of the LORD!!
@epic103 Infact, John 1:1 tells us that the logos was WITH The God. This word 'with' in greek is (pros) which means to be in agreement or to be beside standing in front of. We too use this word in English, as in, "are you WITH us or against US." The Johovah's Witnesses were so threatened by this word that they removed it from their Greek NWT Bible and replaced it with μαζί με. This phrase is used when a Boss is on the job with his emplyees. The employees themselves on equal terms are "pros".
@pretoshohmoofc At the bottom of the Kit it also gives J18; sanctify the Lord God. So Jehovah God is supprted by nine Hebrew versions listed as J7,8,11-14,16,17 this based on the precedent of 237 Jehovahs references, the translators by thier own agreement are bound to render Kyriois as Jehovah in this verse.
Jesus a Who has two Whats Human/Divine Nature so when he died on the stauros only his Human Nature died. His Divine Nature did not die. So did the Second person (The Son) of the Trinity really die? He Incarnated so was he previously God the Father who became God the Son? Or was he always the Son in heaven and on earth?
Trinitarians believe in 1 What and 3 Who's: the 1 What is the Divine Nature the 3 Who's are the persons of YHWH,Jesus,Holy Spirit. But In saying that Jesus is YHWH isn't James White conflating the What and the Who's.
Just like a Father on earth has a son, Jehovah is the father and Jesus is his son. This is not hard to understand especially with scripture, but Satan is very clever in misleading people away from God. We don't have to use the NWT to prove our beliefs, but it does take an honest hearted person to come into the truth. Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010), Luke 4:8 Yeshua answered and said to him, “It is written: 'you shall worship THE LORD JEHOVAH your God, and him only you shall serve.' “
This liar and snake attacks his opponents while taking on the same exact attributes which he himself condemns and finds reprehensible in his enemies. He is projecting his shadow unto others listen to who he really by listening to the choice words he has for his enemies.
I do agree with you about James White!! He is a complete liar and phony, he clearly distorts what the Bible teaches!! You said it right, "deceitful presentation." It is a deceitful presentation!!
This guy's a certified, grade A, hypocrite and con man, he poo poos the inconvenient Bible texts which disagree with his deceitful presentation by saying blah, blah blah when they undermine his attribute association charade of a speech. Presented under the authoritative and academic sounding "Sola Scriptura" and "Tota Scriptura"bit. This guy's a fanatical inquisitorial 5 Point Calvinist who continually rapes the Bible! His Demon God tells him to worship a Trinity and distort Jesus' gospel.
In Hebrews 1:6 the Greek word used is "proskuneo" which means "to homage" "reverence" "bow down to" "to do obeissance" "to fall prostrate" and also to "worship" In Hebrews proskuneo is given to Jesus while in the LXX proskuneo is given to King David and to King Saul in 1 Samuel 24:8, 1 Chronicles 29:20. Therefore King Saul and King David are Jesus who is Jehovah.
Hebrews 1:9 For this cause hath God thy God annointed thee with the oil of exultation beyond thy partners. God thy God in Greek is "o theos sou" literally the "God of you". Jesus is Jehovah in Psalm 102:25-27 and in Hebrews 1:10-12. Just as Solomon is Jesus in Psalm 45:6-7 and Hebrews 1:8-9. With this we can say that Solomon is Jesus is Jehovah.
Solomon is Jesus! Psalm 45:6-7 Thy throne O God is to time age-abiding and beyond, A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, For this cause hath God thine God annointed thee With the oil of gladness beyond thy partners. Hebrews 1:8-9 but as to the Son Thy throne O God is unto times age-abiding and A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of his Kingdom Though hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, For this cause hath God thy God...
Unfortunately they have been convince that they cannot study the bible on their own, lest they fall and enter into the paganistic understandings of 'biblical Christians'.
But at least, using their own NWT bible, they will come to realize (at the very least) something is not right with the NWT bible.
I have checked the NWT bible provided online in the Watchtower website... and the verses are still available. =D
Hebrews.1:9, GOD, your GOD has set you above your companions and has anointed you etc...
GOD, his GOD is Jehovah(Father). According to Heb.1:1-6, GOD sent his firstborn into the world!! GOD is Jehovah, and Jesus is the One sent by Jehovah!!
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth. Psalm.83:18
Jesus said, I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent etc... Matt.11:25
@epic103 If Jesus calling his Father God makes him not God, then what do you call the Father in Heb 1:10 calling the Son "LORD"? "But the Fathers says to the Son,...You o Lord laid the foundations of the world"
No, the Father never called Jesus, "LORD." That is another misconception!! Look at the whole context!!
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore GOD, your GOD has set you(Jesus) above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." He also says, In the beginning O LORD, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews.1:9,10
GOD, his GOD is Jehovah(Father). Jehovah is the Almighty Father!!!
@epic103 God became his Father at the moment of Christ coming into the world as man. This is why Gal 4:8 tells us that Christ as a man had to come under the Laws of men, and as a man this Father became his God. In fact, Psalms 22 is all about Jesus Christ. in vs 10 it says, "You have been my God from my mother's womb." This means that he wasn't his God before his mother's womb. :-)
@epic103 The only time in Hebrews chapter one where there is quotations is when the author of Hebrews is quoting the Father. Don't believe me? See for yourself. :-)
That's ridiculous!!! Jesus made clear, the Almighty Father is the true GOD!!!
Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Matt.11:25
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matt.23:9
Jesus said, what I teach(doctrine) is not mine, but belongs to Him(GOD) that sent me. John.7:16
@epic103 Well of coarse the Father is the Almighty God. Who did you think he was? I also noticed that in your atempt at doing your best to remove Christ's divinity that you yourself removed the quotation before the quote in Heb 1:10. But in your in your blind dogmatic attempt to ground your position, you forgot to remove the quotations from Vs 9. To me this is an admission on your part that what I was telling you was in fact true.
@epic103 Yes, the Son calls the Father Lord in Matt 11:25. But, the Father calls the Son Lord in Heb 1:10. And Yes, the Father is in heaven. I know this because the Son isn't the same person as the Father. As for John 7:16, yes, within the the doctrine of the Trinity the Father has authority over the Son. So nothing that you have presented causes me any threat. :-)
Because He(GOD) has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man(Jesus) whom He has ordained; whereof He has given assurance unto all men, in that He has raised him from the dead. Acts.17:31
The GOD of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead, whom you put to death hanging him on a tree. But GOD exalted him to his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior. Acts.5:30,31
@epic103 You said that I was making it up. After I showed you that it is an official teaching in the church, you blew it off? You don't have to believe it, but I Sir, did not make it up. The Trinity is just the observation of scripture. So if the Bible says that he is God, we belive it , when it says that he was under the authority of the Father, we beliveve it.
You are beyond silly!! All you guys take the same verses out of context!!
Plus you are distorting Romans.8:11, Romans.8:11 says, the Spirit of HIM(Father) raised Jesus from the dead. The context of Romans.8:11-16 is the Father!! GOD(Most High) raised Jesus from the dead!!!
The Father raised Jesus from the dead. Galatians.1:1
It was by the glory(power) of the Father that raised Jesus from the dead. Romans.6:4
"because He (The Holy Spirit) who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He (The Holy Spirit) intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. (The Father).
@epic103 Oh, BTW, the Father DID call the Son "Lord" in Heb 1:10. You didn't refute me on this. So it still stands. (and I'm talking about the verse itself, not rabbit holing through scripture trying to contradict it.)
Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our GOD is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy GOD with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. Mark.12:29,30
In Mark.12:29,30 Jesus is not speaking about himself!! He is speaking about the LORD his GOD, the Almighty Father(Yahweh).
The GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the Father(Yahweh), not Jesus!!!
@epic103 The greek word that is being used both in Mark 12:29,30 and John 10:30 are both the same word, heis. That can't be disputed. Strong's #1520. The word "One" that is being used in Mk12 and Jn 10 does not mean "equal", it means Unity. This is why they picked up stones to kill him.
And...
Yes, the Father is his God, I've already shown you this in Psalms 22:10. I don't need to go on from here. But the Father calls the Son "Lord" in Heb 1:10. You keep "choosing" to forget this.
@epic103 Yes, as a man Jesus became a servant. Phil 2:6. This is why it says in Phil 2:6 "Who being in the FORM (Greek word morphe) of God. but emptied himself taking the FORM (Greek word morphe) of a slave, beng born in human likeness."
Now here is your contradiction...
You believe that Chrsit was 100% Human don't you? Who beign the FORM (Greek word morphe)
But you don't believe that he was 100% God even though the same greek word is being used for both, FORM (Greek word morphe).
GOD anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for GOD was with him. Acts.10:38
Grace be unto you, and peace, from GOD our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Col.1:2,3
Jesus said, I don't speak to my own originality, but the Father who remains in union with me is doing His works. John.14:10
@epic103 We know the Father #1.anointed the Son #2. with the Holy Spirit #3. in Acts 10:38. This is what i'm talking about. There are three persons involed in this one God. This is why Col 2:9 tells us that "all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form." This is why Col 1:19 tells us that "for it ws the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him." Within the one Person dwelt three persons.
John 14:11 "I am in the Father and the Father is in Me."
@epic103 The Father anointed Him with the Holy Spirit to be our example. We Christians are also filled with the Holy Spirit because he (as a man) was and is our modal and example of how to become perfect.
Eph 3:19 "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with tall the fulness of God."
@epic103 As to col 1:2,3 we know that the Father is called "God" But so is the Son. The apostle Paul does this to show that there is a distiction between them. That the Father is the head over the Son just like Adam was the head over Eve, but Eve still had the same nature as Adam and were equal by nature and the two were one in flesh Gen 2:24.
1 Cor 11:3
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the
1st. John.10:30 in the Greek Interlinear Bible En is not translated "in"?? The word for equal(isa) is a completely different word!! Being ONE and being equal or the same is completely different!! You can be ONE with GOD without being THE SAME(equal).
2nd. Jesus has already established the Father as the LORD of heaven and earth and the true GOD!!
3rd. The Almighty Father is THE LORD GOD(Most High), not Jesus!!!
@epic103 You really need to calm down and you'll have to do a lot better than just insisting inspite of physical evidence.
The quotations are quite clear on Hebrews chapter one. Heb 1:1 is the author speaking about the subject,
(Notice that there isn't any quotations until the Father starts to speak in Vs 5)
To which of the angels did he ever say, (notice no quotations) (NOW enters the quotations), "You are my Son; I today, I have become your Father." END QUOTATIONS. )
@epic103 My appologies, I am looking at the Textus Receptus not theWestcott-Hort's manuscripts. Niether matters, because it is the same greek word One is εις in Mark 12:29,30, εσμεν in John 10:30 Textus R and εν in the Westcott-H. All three are the same word. Strong's #1520. It is just being used in Mark 12:29,30 as an adjective in the nominative masculine singular and John 10:30 uses it in the present indicative first person plural. Strong's #1520.
@epic103 Buddy, if all you're going to do is hide behind your ignorace of the Greek language, then....I've won this debate. Do yourself a favor and go get a Strong's Concordance.
@epic103 In Mark.12:29,30 Jesus is not speaking about himself!!
Of coarse he wasn't speaking about himself. That would be modalism and we Trinitarian are not modalists. Modalism teaches that God in one person with three names. Trinitarians teach that God is ONE" what God is", in three "WHO God is".
Do you really think that the JWs are going to accept anything outside of the WTS teachings? If they would read the bible without the influence of the WTS they would come to the realization that Jesus is Jehovah in the flesh. Great Video!
The scriptures cannot be broken !!!
TAZEGRAVE 1 month ago
John20;28 Jesus is our Lord and God and t
TAZEGRAVE 1 month ago
But to us there is but one GOD, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1Cor.8:6
For there is one GOD, and one mediator between GOD and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1Tim.2:5
That the GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. Eph.1:17
The true GOD and LORD of heaven and earth is the Almighty Father(YHWH)
epic103 2 months ago
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@pretoshohmoofc
I have already posted to you what Jesus taught over and over again!! Because Jesus made clear who the true GOD is, and that's the Almighty Father(Jehovah)
Everything you have posted is a distortion!! In other words, it's MOOT!!
Jesus said, what I teach(doctrine) is not mine, but belongs to the One that sent me. John.7:16
The true GOD(Jehovah) is the One that sent him!!! The Almighty Father is Jehovah, not Jesus!! The Most High is Jehovah!!
End of Story!!!
epic103 2 months ago
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@pretoshohmoofc
Exactly, the head of Christ is GOD!!! In other words, GOD is his head!!
Jesus is not GOD, or equal to GOD!! Jesus has a GOD!!
Jehovah(YHWH) is the Almighty Father, He is the source of all things!!
The Father(Jehovah) is THE GOD!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 We see the relationship between the Father and the Son the same way that we see the relationship between A man and his wife. They are equal by nature but within this there is a headship. The man is the head over his wife. This is the same for the Trinity. They are equal by nature but within this there is a headship. The Father is the head over his Son.
John 17:11" ...they may be one (ἓν), just as we are one".
busted!
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 She (a wife) can stand next to her husband, be equal to him by nature and yet come under his authority and yet still be one flesh. They are one, but she can stand next to him. This can be said for the church as well. The body of Christ is one, but within this there is a headship. Pastors lead and are the head of the body. But all are One. 1 Cor 12. This is why Christ told the Father that they will be One (ἓν) just as we are one. John 17:11.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
The point is, ONE doesn't mean the same(equal).
Being ONE and being THE SAME(equal) are two different statements!!
Jesus could have easily said, I and the Father are equal or I and the Father are the same, but he didn't!! He said, ONE!!! Being ONE with GOD doesn't make you the same!!
Jesus taught that he is not the same or equal with GOD!! Jesus made clear, the only true GOD and LORD of heaven and earth is the Almighty Father!!
That ends any controversy!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 Well it actually does. One pair of socks are equal. To be one means that you are in union. Like I said, a man and wife come into Union together; meaning, they become one. Eph 5:28 tells us that "husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies."
I can't think of anything more equal than treating your wife like your own self.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
Jehovah is the English translation of Yahweh(YHWH).
When the word "LORD" is in all capitals it is a reference to the Father(Jehovah). Jehovah is the LORD our GOD!!! In other words, THE GOD(LORD) is Jehovah!!!
Jesus is the Son of the Most High, and Jehovah is the Most High GOD!!!
The kings of the earth take their stand, and the rulers gather together against the LORD, and against His Christ. Acts.4:26 - Jesus is the Christ of the LORD!!
THE LORD GOD is the Almighty Father!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 Infact, John 1:1 tells us that the logos was WITH The God. This word 'with' in greek is (pros) which means to be in agreement or to be beside standing in front of. We too use this word in English, as in, "are you WITH us or against US." The Johovah's Witnesses were so threatened by this word that they removed it from their Greek NWT Bible and replaced it with μαζί με. This phrase is used when a Boss is on the job with his emplyees. The employees themselves on equal terms are "pros".
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 Really? In 1 Peter 3:15 it says, "But Sanctify the Christ as LORD in your hearts,"
This is a quote from Isaiah 8:13. KJV reads," Sanctify the LORD of hosts..."
Even their Kingdom Interlinear at the bottom of the page on page 1032 confirms this is true.
"that "Textus Receptus; sanctify Jehovah God J7,12-14,16,17" Then points to Hebrew manuscripts a evidence.
End quote.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc At the bottom of the Kit it also gives J18; sanctify the Lord God. So Jehovah God is supprted by nine Hebrew versions listed as J7,8,11-14,16,17 this based on the precedent of 237 Jehovahs references, the translators by thier own agreement are bound to render Kyriois as Jehovah in this verse.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
Jesus a Who has two Whats Human/Divine Nature so when he died on the stauros only his Human Nature died. His Divine Nature did not die. So did the Second person (The Son) of the Trinity really die? He Incarnated so was he previously God the Father who became God the Son? Or was he always the Son in heaven and on earth?
Szygyify 3 months ago
Trinitarians believe in 1 What and 3 Who's: the 1 What is the Divine Nature the 3 Who's are the persons of YHWH,Jesus,Holy Spirit. But In saying that Jesus is YHWH isn't James White conflating the What and the Who's.
Szygyify 3 months ago
Just like a Father on earth has a son, Jehovah is the father and Jesus is his son. This is not hard to understand especially with scripture, but Satan is very clever in misleading people away from God. We don't have to use the NWT to prove our beliefs, but it does take an honest hearted person to come into the truth. Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010), Luke 4:8 Yeshua answered and said to him, “It is written: 'you shall worship THE LORD JEHOVAH your God, and him only you shall serve.' “
dajfire81 4 months ago
This liar and snake attacks his opponents while taking on the same exact attributes which he himself condemns and finds reprehensible in his enemies. He is projecting his shadow unto others listen to who he really by listening to the choice words he has for his enemies.
Szygyify 4 months ago
@Szygyify
I do agree with you about James White!! He is a complete liar and phony, he clearly distorts what the Bible teaches!! You said it right, "deceitful presentation." It is a deceitful presentation!!
CHEERS!!
epic103 3 months ago
This guy's a certified, grade A, hypocrite and con man, he poo poos the inconvenient Bible texts which disagree with his deceitful presentation by saying blah, blah blah when they undermine his attribute association charade of a speech. Presented under the authoritative and academic sounding "Sola Scriptura" and "Tota Scriptura"bit. This guy's a fanatical inquisitorial 5 Point Calvinist who continually rapes the Bible! His Demon God tells him to worship a Trinity and distort Jesus' gospel.
Szygyify 4 months ago
ATTRIBUTE ASSOCIATION FARCE
Szygyify 4 months ago
In Hebrews 1:6 the Greek word used is "proskuneo" which means "to homage" "reverence" "bow down to" "to do obeissance" "to fall prostrate" and also to "worship" In Hebrews proskuneo is given to Jesus while in the LXX proskuneo is given to King David and to King Saul in 1 Samuel 24:8, 1 Chronicles 29:20. Therefore King Saul and King David are Jesus who is Jehovah.
Szygyify 4 months ago
Hebrews 1:9 For this cause hath God thy God annointed thee with the oil of exultation beyond thy partners. God thy God in Greek is "o theos sou" literally the "God of you". Jesus is Jehovah in Psalm 102:25-27 and in Hebrews 1:10-12. Just as Solomon is Jesus in Psalm 45:6-7 and Hebrews 1:8-9. With this we can say that Solomon is Jesus is Jehovah.
Szygyify 4 months ago
Solomon is Jesus! Psalm 45:6-7 Thy throne O God is to time age-abiding and beyond, A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, For this cause hath God thine God annointed thee With the oil of gladness beyond thy partners. Hebrews 1:8-9 but as to the Son Thy throne O God is unto times age-abiding and A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of his Kingdom Though hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, For this cause hath God thy God...
Szygyify 4 months ago
@blackmediaenterprise,
Unfortunately they have been convince that they cannot study the bible on their own, lest they fall and enter into the paganistic understandings of 'biblical Christians'.
But at least, using their own NWT bible, they will come to realize (at the very least) something is not right with the NWT bible.
I have checked the NWT bible provided online in the Watchtower website... and the verses are still available. =D
ZackTKWei 8 months ago
Hebrews.1:9, GOD, your GOD has set you above your companions and has anointed you etc...
GOD, his GOD is Jehovah(Father). According to Heb.1:1-6, GOD sent his firstborn into the world!! GOD is Jehovah, and Jesus is the One sent by Jehovah!!
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth. Psalm.83:18
Jesus said, I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent etc... Matt.11:25
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 If Jesus calling his Father God makes him not God, then what do you call the Father in Heb 1:10 calling the Son "LORD"? "But the Fathers says to the Son,...You o Lord laid the foundations of the world"
So if I use your logic, the Father can't be God.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
No, the Father never called Jesus, "LORD." That is another misconception!! Look at the whole context!!
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore GOD, your GOD has set you(Jesus) above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." He also says, In the beginning O LORD, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews.1:9,10
GOD, his GOD is Jehovah(Father). Jehovah is the Almighty Father!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103
You yourself wrote and I quote:"He also says, In the beginning O LORD, You laid the foundations of the earth."
Who "also says,"? Who is "He"who is speaking in Vs 9?
Answer: it is still the Father speaking this is why it is in quotations. The author of hebrews doesn't use quotations in his commentary. :-)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 God became his Father at the moment of Christ coming into the world as man. This is why Gal 4:8 tells us that Christ as a man had to come under the Laws of men, and as a man this Father became his God. In fact, Psalms 22 is all about Jesus Christ. in vs 10 it says, "You have been my God from my mother's womb." This means that he wasn't his God before his mother's womb. :-)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 The only time in Hebrews chapter one where there is quotations is when the author of Hebrews is quoting the Father. Don't believe me? See for yourself. :-)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
That's ridiculous!!! Jesus made clear, the Almighty Father is the true GOD!!!
Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Matt.11:25
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matt.23:9
Jesus said, what I teach(doctrine) is not mine, but belongs to Him(GOD) that sent me. John.7:16
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 Well of coarse the Father is the Almighty God. Who did you think he was? I also noticed that in your atempt at doing your best to remove Christ's divinity that you yourself removed the quotation before the quote in Heb 1:10. But in your in your blind dogmatic attempt to ground your position, you forgot to remove the quotations from Vs 9. To me this is an admission on your part that what I was telling you was in fact true.
Good going!
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 Yes, the Son calls the Father Lord in Matt 11:25. But, the Father calls the Son Lord in Heb 1:10. And Yes, the Father is in heaven. I know this because the Son isn't the same person as the Father. As for John 7:16, yes, within the the doctrine of the Trinity the Father has authority over the Son. So nothing that you have presented causes me any threat. :-)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
That's silly!! You're just making things up!!!
Because He(GOD) has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man(Jesus) whom He has ordained; whereof He has given assurance unto all men, in that He has raised him from the dead. Acts.17:31
The GOD of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead, whom you put to death hanging him on a tree. But GOD exalted him to his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior. Acts.5:30,31
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 Making things up? Look up the "Ontological Trinity and the Economic Trinity".
carm.org/ontological-and-economic-trinity
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
You look it up!!!
Go by what Jesus actually taught, not a false GOD dishonoring doctrine!!!
Jesus proclaimed the Almighty Father as the only true GOD!!
That ends any controversy!!!
epic103 3 months ago
Yes I know that the Father is the only True God. That's why I'm a Trinitarian. But the Son is ALSO called "the only True God" in 1 John 5:20
"...and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 You said that I was making it up. After I showed you that it is an official teaching in the church, you blew it off? You don't have to believe it, but I Sir, did not make it up. The Trinity is just the observation of scripture. So if the Bible says that he is God, we belive it , when it says that he was under the authority of the Father, we beliveve it.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 Ok, you brought up Acts 17:31. Who will do the judging? Answer: Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 5:10
"For we must appear before the judgement seat of Christ."
Rom 14:10
"we will stand before the judgment seat of God"
and the final kick in the face....
John 5:22
"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgement to the Son."
Paul uses the judgement seat of Christ and judgement seat of God interchangeably. But is referring to the same person. The Son. ;-)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 Acts 5:30,31 God raised Jesus up from the dead.
John 2:19-21 Jesus raised jesus up from the Dead.
Rom 8:11 the Holy Spirit raised Christ up from the Dead.
The Trinity raised jesus Christ up from the dead. ;-)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
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@pretoshohmoofc
You are beyond silly!! All you guys take the same verses out of context!!
Plus you are distorting Romans.8:11, Romans.8:11 says, the Spirit of HIM(Father) raised Jesus from the dead. The context of Romans.8:11-16 is the Father!! GOD(Most High) raised Jesus from the dead!!!
The Father raised Jesus from the dead. Galatians.1:1
It was by the glory(power) of the Father that raised Jesus from the dead. Romans.6:4
The Almighty Father raised Jesus from the dead!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 Read John 2:19-21. "Destroy this temple and in three days, **I** (JESUS SPEAKING) will raise it up. "...but he was speaking of his body."
Christ raised himself up from the dead as well. ;-)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 No,Rom 8 is talking about the Holy Spirit.
Rom 8:27
"because He (The Holy Spirit) who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He (The Holy Spirit) intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. (The Father).
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 Oh, BTW, the Father DID call the Son "Lord" in Heb 1:10. You didn't refute me on this. So it still stands. (and I'm talking about the verse itself, not rabbit holing through scripture trying to contradict it.)
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our GOD is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy GOD with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. Mark.12:29,30
In Mark.12:29,30 Jesus is not speaking about himself!! He is speaking about the LORD his GOD, the Almighty Father(Yahweh).
The GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the Father(Yahweh), not Jesus!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 This very same greek word "One-heis" as in "The LORD our God is one", is also being used in John 10:30. "The Father and I are one."
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
That's not true, stop your lies!!!
The Greek word for ONE is EN(hen)
The Greek word for EQUAL is ICA(isa)
And correction, Jesus said the LORD his GOD!!! The LORD is his GOD!!!
The GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the GOD of our forefathers has glorified His servant, Jesus. Acts.3:13
You can twist any verses you want, but Jesus made it clear that the only true GOD and LORD of heaven and earth is the Almighty Father!!!
Anything else is heresy!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 The greek word that is being used both in Mark 12:29,30 and John 10:30 are both the same word, heis. That can't be disputed. Strong's #1520. The word "One" that is being used in Mk12 and Jn 10 does not mean "equal", it means Unity. This is why they picked up stones to kill him.
And...
Yes, the Father is his God, I've already shown you this in Psalms 22:10. I don't need to go on from here. But the Father calls the Son "Lord" in Heb 1:10. You keep "choosing" to forget this.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 Yes, as a man Jesus became a servant. Phil 2:6. This is why it says in Phil 2:6 "Who being in the FORM (Greek word morphe) of God. but emptied himself taking the FORM (Greek word morphe) of a slave, beng born in human likeness."
Now here is your contradiction...
You believe that Chrsit was 100% Human don't you? Who beign the FORM (Greek word morphe)
But you don't believe that he was 100% God even though the same greek word is being used for both, FORM (Greek word morphe).
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
GOD anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for GOD was with him. Acts.10:38
Grace be unto you, and peace, from GOD our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Col.1:2,3
Jesus said, I don't speak to my own originality, but the Father who remains in union with me is doing His works. John.14:10
Jesus has a GOD throughout!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 We know the Father #1.anointed the Son #2. with the Holy Spirit #3. in Acts 10:38. This is what i'm talking about. There are three persons involed in this one God. This is why Col 2:9 tells us that "all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form." This is why Col 1:19 tells us that "for it ws the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him." Within the one Person dwelt three persons.
John 14:11 "I am in the Father and the Father is in Me."
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 The Father anointed Him with the Holy Spirit to be our example. We Christians are also filled with the Holy Spirit because he (as a man) was and is our modal and example of how to become perfect.
Eph 3:19 "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with tall the fulness of God."
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 As to col 1:2,3 we know that the Father is called "God" But so is the Son. The apostle Paul does this to show that there is a distiction between them. That the Father is the head over the Son just like Adam was the head over Eve, but Eve still had the same nature as Adam and were equal by nature and the two were one in flesh Gen 2:24.
1 Cor 11:3
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the
head of a woman, AND GOD IS THE HEAD OF CHRIST.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 And the Father made it clear that the Son is called "Lord" in Heb 1:10. And "God" in Heb 1:8.
Remember the quotations?
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
No, the Father didn't call Jesus "Lord."
1st. John.10:30 in the Greek Interlinear Bible En is not translated "in"?? The word for equal(isa) is a completely different word!! Being ONE and being equal or the same is completely different!! You can be ONE with GOD without being THE SAME(equal).
2nd. Jesus has already established the Father as the LORD of heaven and earth and the true GOD!!
3rd. The Almighty Father is THE LORD GOD(Most High), not Jesus!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 You really need to calm down and you'll have to do a lot better than just insisting inspite of physical evidence.
The quotations are quite clear on Hebrews chapter one. Heb 1:1 is the author speaking about the subject,
(Notice that there isn't any quotations until the Father starts to speak in Vs 5)
To which of the angels did he ever say, (notice no quotations) (NOW enters the quotations), "You are my Son; I today, I have become your Father." END QUOTATIONS. )
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 I know that it is not translated as "in". Please read through your comments that I send you before you fly off the handle again.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 My appologies, I am looking at the Textus Receptus not theWestcott-Hort's manuscripts. Niether matters, because it is the same greek word One is εις in Mark 12:29,30, εσμεν in John 10:30 Textus R and εν in the Westcott-H. All three are the same word. Strong's #1520. It is just being used in Mark 12:29,30 as an adjective in the nominative masculine singular and John 10:30 uses it in the present indicative first person plural. Strong's #1520.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@pretoshohmoofc
Wrong again, stop with your distortions!!
The word ONE(En) in John.10:30 is the same word ONE(En) that is in John.17:21,22, 1Cor.3:8 and other verses!!
Example, a Husband and Wife are ONE(En). Paul and Apollos are ONE(En). Jesus and the Father are ONE(En).
To be ONE with GOD, and to be THE SAME(equal) to GOD are two different things!!
The word for EQUAL is a completely different word!!
Never mind James White, do your own research!!!
epic103 3 months ago
@epic103 Buddy, if all you're going to do is hide behind your ignorace of the Greek language, then....I've won this debate. Do yourself a favor and go get a Strong's Concordance.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 The word One in Mark 12 29,30 doesn't mean equal. It is just being used in the nominative masculine singular. That's all.
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 Example, a Husband and Wife are ONE(En). Paul and Apollos are ONE(En). Jesus and the Father are ONE(En).
Yes, yes ,yes!! You've got it!!! That is right! It IS the same thing. To be a Husband to your wife is to be un Unity.
News flash,
Tri-three
Unity-One
Drop the U and what do you get?
Tri_nity!
Check mate!
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
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pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 To intercede just as the Holy Spirit is doing in Rom 8:26-27 is to plead on another's behalf to God?
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 In Mark.12:29,30 Jesus is not speaking about himself!!
Of coarse he wasn't speaking about himself. That would be modalism and we Trinitarian are not modalists. Modalism teaches that God in one person with three names. Trinitarians teach that God is ONE" what God is", in three "WHO God is".
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
@epic103 RThe Bible also calls the Father "only Savior" in Isaiah 43:11. The Father is also called "King" in Zack 14:9.
But is that true? Isn't the Son called "Savior" in Titus 2:11-13?
Isn't Jesus also called "King"? John 18:37 "I am a King.."
pretoshohmoofc 3 months ago
Do you really think that the JWs are going to accept anything outside of the WTS teachings? If they would read the bible without the influence of the WTS they would come to the realization that Jesus is Jehovah in the flesh. Great Video!
blackmediaenterprise 8 months ago