@mckavitt wunderlich died young.. otherwise i think he surpasses both domingo and pavarotti - has both their qualities - domingo's sheer beauty of tone and the ease of technique that pavorotti had
@DavidoffGustav Yes, i know, and i agree with you entirely. I read a rather outdated critique of Wunderlich (in the Bach Easter Oratorio livret) that suggested that Wunderlich still had a lot of growing to do as a singing artist. As far as i'm concerned, death was permissable prematurely because, on the contrary, he had reached the pinnacle, still out of reach for the others. Domingo and Pavarotti had their moments of greatness tho', the former especially as Othello, the latter as Idomeneo.
Oh, this is just beautiful! Strauss and Wagner are not the pick up and play type and you definitely have to listen to their operas more than three times to like it. You also need to understand what is happening dramatically...neither the orchestration nor the vocal score will make sense otherwise. My suggestion...wait until everyone's left the house, pump up the volume and become immersed for two or three hours. You won't regret it.
Neo-wagnerian. I agree, it sounds ambiguous. One has to study his counter point and get hooked on his style to appreciate his music. Too many chords, just overwhelming for the listeners also because instruments are independent and not supportive to the vocals. ^L^
Yes there are definitely some exceptions. I'm musically "stressed out" by the time I get to the exceptions though, ha ha :D I'm glad it's not just me.
"Too many notes" (remember in Amadeus ?) - this is IMO true of R. Strauss (and of course of Mozart).
....Give me a Puccini, a Verdi, a Donezetti, a Bizet, a Bellini, a Hayden, a Bach, a Mozart, etc. to move me where I don't have to hunt in distress for hours for the pearls !
Interesting for me (as a Caruso fan) is that he, the first time he heard Caruso sing (Aida in Berlin, October 1907) in excitement exclaimed "He sings the SOUL of the melody" ...
Forgot to comment on the finale to "Ariedne auf Naxos" - YES, it is beautiful, but Mozart or Puccini would have done it in the 10th of the time - with more effect.
Actually I must admit I even have problems with Wagner. And this in spite of the Danish heldentenor Lauritz Melchior - great voice, but almost all Wagner ... Just my opinion of course...
I don't remember if I'd ever listened to the complete Wagner's or most opera from begin to the end unless it's in the theater. I even skipped on a most enjoyed opera.=)
I agree, I find Mozart and Puccini very listenable; I also find Verdi quite easy to listen to because even if he was sometimes a bit predictable, or lacking in subtlety/finesse, the music never offends and is usually exciting and moving. A. Chenier I can also listen to easily =P
Yes Wagner was not a very like-able person by all accounts! And I don't care for a lot of the themes in his opera but some of his music is quite beautiful and evocative.
Yes, I do like some Wagner too. He is definitely better - and more bombastic and less "wandering" - than Strauss. - Still baffles me that Wagner was a contemporary of Verdi. Very different. What I don't like about him as a person: his fixation on the "superior" Germanic race (and the racist issue).
Sorry I could never listen through a whole Strauss opera without turning off the radio, I heard King and Norman in a Ariadne auf Naxos telecast (or it might have been a playback) in the mid 90s and I turned the TV off after watching about half. Too much dissonance in his orchestral arrangements. It didn't help that both King and Norman were way past their prime. Great voices here though.
I agree! Not a Strauss fan, for similar reasons (as I said in the description.) I haven't heard all of his operas, but the 3 or four I've heard in their entirety did not "turn me on" at all. :P
Patches here and there in his operas can be quite beautiful but, on the whole, it just sounds noisy and disorganized to me. I think my favorite thing he wrote is still Rosenkavalier's "Di rigori armato," only a 2 minute excerpt lol
Busy it may be, cacophony? I'll give you that, too! But you have to admit Strauss gave them some great notes and entrances to showcase those glorious voices! An excellent post, my friend! Instantly favorited, so you better not ever take it down! ;D
Three great artists in their prime united in the lush vocal writing of Strauss with the fabulous Karl Bohm as conductor. What could be more gratifying? Thanks for sharing.
I'll never forget Bohm's incredible conducting of Fidelio at the Met in the early 1970's with Leonie Rysanek as Leonora and ? as Florestan (I don't remember; was it King or McCracken or another tenor?). But it was Bohm and the orchestra that stole the show.
Oh, I would have loved to have heard that live. I have two complete Fidelio recordings with Bohm; both from 1969, one is the studio Staatskapelle Dresden with King and Gwyneth Jones; the other live from Vienna with King and Christa Ludwig. Both are great. The finale, when done well, is one of the most glorious of any opera IMO and of course the Leonore overture(s) are great....
.....I also love his Beethoven's 9th. One of the things I appreciate about his conducting is his very smart and tasteful decisions on tempo. Some Fidelio recordings I've heard, the tempo is so achingly slow the happiness of "Namenlose freude" is lost and the prison scene sounds more drugged than desperate. Too fast is equally bad but Bohm's choices I almost always agree with. Often I find his recordings in general are better in some respects than more famous conductors like Karajan.
The Leonore overture was glorious in the production I saw, as was the touching Prison Scene and the finale. The audience, I remember, sat spellbound. This was perhaps the finest opera performance I ever saw. Of course, Beethoven's superb music does not hurt; but, as you state, if it lacks the divine spark of the conductor, it can fall apart.
He was surprisingly good in the arias as I remember it, perhaps it was Chenier and another couple of big arias. I never owned the recording it was on LP in the station library.
No I didn't but when I worked in Radio I played his recordings often, some very good Italian arias also. That was 40 years ago! I was never much into German Rep.
Yeah, like I said I'm not overfond of Strauss but I like Kings Fidelio recordings, some Wagner and and some rare stuff like Korngold and Mahler as well. Haven't heard him in much Italian, that would be interesting. =)
Sometimes it better to start out with Strauss with bits and pieces. Wagner on the other hand, take it act by act.
a9z8a743 4 months ago
This opera isn't staged very often. Probably difficult to show the
soprano turning into a tree.
Deutsche Grammophon has this performance on CDs. I read that
Strauss dedicated the opera to Karl Bohm.
Thanks for posting.
rockgor 6 months ago
I also have this recording and wonderful it is. All three are at the top and i never heard Gueden or Wunderlich when they were not. Vielen Dank!
mckavitt 1 year ago
@mckavitt wunderlich died young.. otherwise i think he surpasses both domingo and pavarotti - has both their qualities - domingo's sheer beauty of tone and the ease of technique that pavorotti had
DavidoffGustav 1 year ago
@DavidoffGustav Yes, i know, and i agree with you entirely. I read a rather outdated critique of Wunderlich (in the Bach Easter Oratorio livret) that suggested that Wunderlich still had a lot of growing to do as a singing artist. As far as i'm concerned, death was permissable prematurely because, on the contrary, he had reached the pinnacle, still out of reach for the others. Domingo and Pavarotti had their moments of greatness tho', the former especially as Othello, the latter as Idomeneo.
mckavitt 1 year ago
MEIN GOTT King is terrific in this!
montestone 2 years ago
He was a wonderful tenor.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Oh, this is just beautiful! Strauss and Wagner are not the pick up and play type and you definitely have to listen to their operas more than three times to like it. You also need to understand what is happening dramatically...neither the orchestration nor the vocal score will make sense otherwise. My suggestion...wait until everyone's left the house, pump up the volume and become immersed for two or three hours. You won't regret it.
babydrane 2 years ago
Thanks for the suggestion. You are right, I know. ;-)
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Most enjoyable and thanks very much for posting it. Best wishes!
Ivanhoe2 2 years ago
Thanks to you to :)
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
A great recording, it is available somewhere? Thanks for uploading.
retepsnikrep 2 years ago
Yes the whole thing is available on CD. (or download.)
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Just listened to Schoenberg's Gurrelieder again. I think that work must have had quite an impact on Strauss.
lipsbach 2 years ago
Neo-wagnerian. I agree, it sounds ambiguous. One has to study his counter point and get hooked on his style to appreciate his music. Too many chords, just overwhelming for the listeners also because instruments are independent and not supportive to the vocals. ^L^
steakopera 2 years ago
Great voices. I have a problem with most R. Strauss' music, too. A bit like Wagner on steroids.
But there are some - very beautiful - exceptions, e.g. some of the arias from the Rosenkavalier.
tomfroekjaer 2 years ago
"Wagner on steroids" hehehe I like that.
Yes there are definitely some exceptions. I'm musically "stressed out" by the time I get to the exceptions though, ha ha :D I'm glad it's not just me.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
The finale to "Ariedne auf naxos" is quite beautiful.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
"Too many notes" (remember in Amadeus ?) - this is IMO true of R. Strauss (and of course of Mozart).
....Give me a Puccini, a Verdi, a Donezetti, a Bizet, a Bellini, a Hayden, a Bach, a Mozart, etc. to move me where I don't have to hunt in distress for hours for the pearls !
Interesting for me (as a Caruso fan) is that he, the first time he heard Caruso sing (Aida in Berlin, October 1907) in excitement exclaimed "He sings the SOUL of the melody" ...
Cheers, Tom
tomfroekjaer 2 years ago
Typo !!!!!!! "and of course NOT of Mozart" ....
tomfroekjaer 2 years ago
Forgot to comment on the finale to "Ariedne auf Naxos" - YES, it is beautiful, but Mozart or Puccini would have done it in the 10th of the time - with more effect.
tomfroekjaer 2 years ago
"..to move me where I don't have to hunt in distress for hours for the pearls"
HA HA I couldn't agree more. Massenet is another one who composed without all the helter-skelter. Interesting quote, thanks.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Yes, Massenet is another favorite.
Actually I must admit I even have problems with Wagner. And this in spite of the Danish heldentenor Lauritz Melchior - great voice, but almost all Wagner ... Just my opinion of course...
tomfroekjaer 2 years ago
I like *some* Wagner. More than Strauss. I'm not a huge fan of either.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
I don't remember if I'd ever listened to the complete Wagner's or most opera from begin to the end unless it's in the theater. I even skipped on a most enjoyed opera.=)
steakopera 2 years ago
To this day I have not managed to listen to a full Wagner opera - fast forward all the time :-)
I keep getting associations to a certain period in German history ...
For me the "easiest" to listen to to the end are the operas from Puccini and Mozart.
tomfroekjaer 2 years ago
I agree, I find Mozart and Puccini very listenable; I also find Verdi quite easy to listen to because even if he was sometimes a bit predictable, or lacking in subtlety/finesse, the music never offends and is usually exciting and moving. A. Chenier I can also listen to easily =P
Yes Wagner was not a very like-able person by all accounts! And I don't care for a lot of the themes in his opera but some of his music is quite beautiful and evocative.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Comment removed
steakopera 2 years ago
Yes, I do like some Wagner too. He is definitely better - and more bombastic and less "wandering" - than Strauss. - Still baffles me that Wagner was a contemporary of Verdi. Very different. What I don't like about him as a person: his fixation on the "superior" Germanic race (and the racist issue).
tomfroekjaer 2 years ago
Sorry I could never listen through a whole Strauss opera without turning off the radio, I heard King and Norman in a Ariadne auf Naxos telecast (or it might have been a playback) in the mid 90s and I turned the TV off after watching about half. Too much dissonance in his orchestral arrangements. It didn't help that both King and Norman were way past their prime. Great voices here though.
GermanOperaSinger 2 years ago
I agree! Not a Strauss fan, for similar reasons (as I said in the description.) I haven't heard all of his operas, but the 3 or four I've heard in their entirety did not "turn me on" at all. :P
Patches here and there in his operas can be quite beautiful but, on the whole, it just sounds noisy and disorganized to me. I think my favorite thing he wrote is still Rosenkavalier's "Di rigori armato," only a 2 minute excerpt lol
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Sounds like it would be really difficult to sing too.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
But yes I'll listen to a cast like this sing practically anything. ^_^
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Busy it may be, cacophony? I'll give you that, too! But you have to admit Strauss gave them some great notes and entrances to showcase those glorious voices! An excellent post, my friend! Instantly favorited, so you better not ever take it down! ;D
aaronsande 2 years ago
Three great artists in their prime united in the lush vocal writing of Strauss with the fabulous Karl Bohm as conductor. What could be more gratifying? Thanks for sharing.
meltzerboy 2 years ago
Thanks for commenting.
I generally love Bohm's conducting as well, I think he is considerably underrated.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
I'll never forget Bohm's incredible conducting of Fidelio at the Met in the early 1970's with Leonie Rysanek as Leonora and ? as Florestan (I don't remember; was it King or McCracken or another tenor?). But it was Bohm and the orchestra that stole the show.
meltzerboy 2 years ago
Oh, I would have loved to have heard that live. I have two complete Fidelio recordings with Bohm; both from 1969, one is the studio Staatskapelle Dresden with King and Gwyneth Jones; the other live from Vienna with King and Christa Ludwig. Both are great. The finale, when done well, is one of the most glorious of any opera IMO and of course the Leonore overture(s) are great....
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
.....I also love his Beethoven's 9th. One of the things I appreciate about his conducting is his very smart and tasteful decisions on tempo. Some Fidelio recordings I've heard, the tempo is so achingly slow the happiness of "Namenlose freude" is lost and the prison scene sounds more drugged than desperate. Too fast is equally bad but Bohm's choices I almost always agree with. Often I find his recordings in general are better in some respects than more famous conductors like Karajan.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
The Leonore overture was glorious in the production I saw, as was the touching Prison Scene and the finale. The audience, I remember, sat spellbound. This was perhaps the finest opera performance I ever saw. Of course, Beethoven's superb music does not hurt; but, as you state, if it lacks the divine spark of the conductor, it can fall apart.
meltzerboy 2 years ago
He was surprisingly good in the arias as I remember it, perhaps it was Chenier and another couple of big arias. I never owned the recording it was on LP in the station library.
halavey 2 years ago
Interesting. Maybe I'll dig around a bit. He was a fins singer.
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
No I didn't but when I worked in Radio I played his recordings often, some very good Italian arias also. That was 40 years ago! I was never much into German Rep.
halavey 2 years ago
Yeah, like I said I'm not overfond of Strauss but I like Kings Fidelio recordings, some Wagner and and some rare stuff like Korngold and Mahler as well. Haven't heard him in much Italian, that would be interesting. =)
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago
Wonderful combo I remember King very well.
halavey 2 years ago
I agree. Did you get to hear King live?
ShawDAMAN 2 years ago