If it's so easy to be turned of by the bible, what's wrong in your god just revealing himself to us and say here I am. Why do christians tell us we're going to hell? That's a threat. When we stand up against that, they feel persecuted and wronged and then in the very same nature want power in government? You're damned if you say you're atheist and want to run for office. You'll never hear the end of it. And just because we don't believe in the same god as you, we'll burn forever? What a threat
@time2learnnow - It's obvious you have some issues with some statements made by some within the Christian faith as well as some issues with Christians vs atheist in politics but I'm trying to see how any of that has to do with the video presented here?
Thanks for responding to that woman's video. I can't talk to atheists. I have trouble even listening to them because they are so abrasive and condescending, yet so ignorant and closed minded.
@donnajeanh Yes I definately know what you mean. However, I actually enjoy most of my conversations with them. I don't really think I'm going to change their minds but others that are on the fence that read the conversations and see the videos might be able to make a more informed decision.
@donnajeanh ignorant closed mined.... as a athiest i dont feal condescending to relegios people. but people like you the holy rollers. i have a problem listening to you because you belive god is every thing and if you do not belive you go to hell. look at it this way i was always told give god money and he will multiply it for you ok my question is he GOD creater of everything why the fuck dose he need money all religion is is a business i was a cristan for 13 year but i saw the truth
what about the other religions, if your only allowed to believe in one God, does that mean that all other religions go to hell? and if so doesn't it suck that religion is almost strictly geographical disruption of the human population spread through culture and linage. Does that mean all believers in Hindu are going to hell?
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
John 14:5-6 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I mean common u ever read genesis, its hilarious, every time it says something is created it, it reverse a few pages down. GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created. GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created. Hmm should I interrupt that as god testing my faith? or was God just really confused on how we named all our creatures? seriously look at
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
@led335 This is exactly what I’m talking about in reference to being able to understand what you are reading. Because you can only look at the Bible from a natural perspective you interpret from a natural perspective and because of that your knowledge is limited.
And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
@led335 Just as this Ethiopian need someone to guide him in understanding scripture I will attempt to guide you however in my many discussion with those of your belief I already realize that the discourse will be filled with angry hateful rebuttals on your part but at least I would have done my part to try and educate. So let’s begin shall we…
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
The our that is being referred to is the Holy Trinity God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity are not flesh and blood people they are Spirits.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
So since God is a spirit when the Bible mentions that man is created in God’s image and after our (the Holy Trinity) image it is not referring to the flesh and blood body it is referring to man’s spirit.
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This scripture let’s us know that we are created tri-part beings. We are spiritual beings living in a physical body and we possess a soul. Our soul is made up of 5 components the mind, intellect, imagination, emotions and our will these things make us the unique persons that we are.
@led335 In addition to understanding how to correctly interpret scripture you must understand God's order of creating things. God creates 1st in the spiritual realm then in the natural realm (just as we do). Engineers think of how they want to design a car 1st (within our spiritual/soulish realm the mind) then they work off of that thought to create the car in the natural. Gen 1:26 is the spiritual creation of all mankind men and women.
@led335 Note the difference in wording between Gen 1:26 “make man” and Gen 2:7 “God formed man” forming is a clear indication of a physical creation however even with the creation of a physical body man was not yet a living soul hence the breath of life the spirit of man that was spoke of in Gen 1:26 had to be added.
@led335 If one only thinks of man as the physical body then it is understandable how these scriptures would be confusing. When God refers to man He is referring to the real man which is spirit not our flesh for the flesh will pass away but the spirit it eternal
@led335 If one only thinks of man as the physical body then it is understandable how these scriptures would be confusing. When God refers to man He is referring to the real man which is spirit not our flesh for the flesh will pass away but the spirit it eternal.
Genesis 2:5
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
@led335 This scripture is merely mentioning that vegetation was on the planet before the forming of man's physical flesh and blood body. Which is supported by Gen 1:11-12 with the creation of vegetation on the third day which also preceded the forming of man(kind) as a spirit.
Who cares who it is written to if it tells you to stone wives who commit blamsphey? and yes as a historain you must take everything in context, translations, cultural influences, etc, BUT WTF WHY BELIEVE IN IT! why believe in something that has to be re written numerous times, why believe in something that is influenced so much by the people who wrote it, if it was god we wouldnt see nor need any of that, fuck stop making accuses to believe
@led335 Well my response to Stasie wasn't to persuade anyone to believe in the Bible but to show how someone that doesn't kow how to correctly interpret scripture can easily form incorrect opinions and conclusions about the Bible. Believing in the Bible is a matter of faith where you see individual writers influence other may see God dealing with people differently based on cultural overtones at that time as well as His particular relationship with the Israelite people.
@dsteph2008 Interpret the bible? And how excatly to do u that properly? Ignore all the terrible passages?
its not a matter of faith its a matter of ignorance, and I do take offense when a religious person tries to jusifiy the bible, its a book of hate and racism. It should play no role in the morals dictated for todays lifestyle. So much of the bible is ignored by those who believe as the rules are ridiculous.
@led335 You interpret correctly 1st by understanding the context, cultual references, examining what the translated words mean in the original Hebrew and Greek and not stricly in our language, you take examine all scriptures on a topic and not just form an opinion or doctrine on one scripture. To say that the Bible is a book of hate and racism is to do exactly what you are claiming those that believe in the Bible are doing ignoring passages.
@led335 What rules that apply to the church today do you find ridiculous? Remember rules that apply to the church today not all of those ritualistic rules geared towards the Israelite people in the Old Testament.
@dsteph2008 To do this is not a testimont of faith, or skill of how to interpret the bible "properly" all that is simply an accuse to hold onto these ridiculous beliefs. God killed more people in the bible that the supposed devil. God punished adam and eve for doing wrong even though they weere made with no knowledge of good and evil. We dont belive royalty have healing powers anymore, why do we still think theres a magical man in the sky that gave us birth?
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Life is chooice driven we live and die based upon the choices we make it's not God's fault many of us make bad choices.
@dsteph2008 I went to catholic elementary school and high school, I know how to interrupt the scripture. BTW read correctly I said it is not sceince thats debunks religion but history. Good try though, and from someone who has a BS in geophysics, I say it was the geo part of that degree that showed science in a light in which God couldn;t agree. The earth is 4.56 billion years old, how old is it according to the church? Well as you said, men must help the way to God am I correct?
@led335 Well that's your problem you went to catholic school you may have been taught to read the bible but there is a difference between reading and interpreting hence your confusion on Genesis Chapters 1 & 2. In reference to how old the earth is I can hardly give an answer for the church since there are a variety of answers that are given however, as a Radiation Safety Officer by profession I do agree that based upon radiometric studies that the earth is on the order of 4.5 billion years old.
@dsteph2008 Well one of those men said that earth was only 4000 years old? weird.... Everything since Darwin's evolution of the species all religious fellows have done is deny it, why? because it shows a path of human creation not seen by the scripture nor does it need any God to explain it. A God can only fit the bill when we speak of the start, the creation of everything, the lighter that set off the big bang. By why would we put him in such a place?
@dsteph2008 The scripture has bee proven wrong and wrong again over theories of science, why would we suddenly place a superior entity to explain what science has yet to explain, when all this has done in the past is hold us back, IE Galileo in jail etc. You can say I dont know how to interrupt the scripture but isnt that the beauty of Islam it is the direct word from Muhammad, directly from God, which makes a lot more sense than letting evil men guide you on how to interrupt it.
@dsteph2008 One issue, with well me raising issues, is I hate to say it, but you are very absorbed in your faith and regardless of what I bring forth the words of the bible will be twisted against me, which over all is the problem with the bible. But here we go, virgin birth, zombies walking, (both of which were very common among people in the time period of the bible, in fact so common that Jesus being born of a virgin and rising from the died would have been no big deal,
@dsteph2008 infact graves were covered for three days as they had no medical technology to know weather they had in fact died or not, and research virigin births in gods time if you dont belive the first part) the plants before the sun, the making of the earth in seven days, or is that god days? Noahs ark? The splitting of the sea? The heliocentric model (which as a physicts I hope you accpeat) [Chronicles 16:30] "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
@led335 Now you mentioned a lot of things however I asked for theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again. The closest you got to providing a theory is the heliocentric model which I do accept. However the two scriptures you used aren't appropriate for your intended purpose. In interpreting the meaning of scripture you must read more than one verse.
@led335 If you read the entire Chapter of 1 Chron 16 you will find that 1 Chron 16:30 is part of a psalm (or song) that David composed to thank God as well as all of Psalms are songs. These are meant for inspiration, celebrating and praising. Do you have any other actual theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again?
@dsteph2008 oooo its a song shit, i guess we can just ignore that than eh? thats a great way to justify ur point ! Ur agruing a circle here, you just agrued that the bible couldnt be used to argue science, and yet ur continuing to try and further ur argument for such?? didnt u just dismiss all those scientifically impossible feats by saying the bible cant be used regarding such issues?
@led335 What I said is the Bible is not a scientific text you don't go to the Bible to find out how old the earth is, you go to science. I'm failing to understand your point. Yes it is a song if you would have read the entire chapter you would have realized that. What is your point?
@dsteph2008 "What I said is the Bible is not a scientific text you don't go to the Bible to find out how old the earth is, you go to science." haha iam well aware, wat iam concerned with is when the bible contradicts the science, which you haven't been able to repute except for saying that it is a song, therefore exempt, or that it is a metaphor
@led335 "However the two scriptures you used aren't appropriate for your intended purpose. In interpreting the meaning of scripture you must read more than one verse." haha seriously expand my knowledge than, what justifies those verse as being, in fact correct? also wat is the use of the bible than, as a moral guidence?> the purpose of the bible is debatable regardless, it even says within the scriuputre the many uses of the bible i just think that today, it serves no use for any of them
@dsteph2008 "Do you have any other actual theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again?" this questions makes no sense, how did the scientific laws of, well, child bearing not prove the bible wrong for claiming jesus was born of a virgin?unless iam suppose to disprove wat?the bible itself? like its existence? iam unsure of wat u want here? are you simply searching for the impossible so u can sleep tonight knowing that the your beliefs will bring u peace in the after life?
@dsteph2008 "However the two scriptures you used aren't appropriate for your intended purpose. In interpreting the meaning of scripture you must read more than one verse." haha seriously expand my knowledge than, what justifies those verse as being, in fact correct? also wat is the use of the bible than, as a moral guidence?> the purpose of the bible is debatable regardless, it even says within the scriuputre the many uses of the bible i just think that today, it serves no use for any of them
@dsteph2008 What justifies those verses as being correct???? I don't follow. You're trying to use verses to a song as proof that the Bible contradicts the heliocentric model??
@dsteph2008 My point is that just because a versus is part of a song, how does that disqualify it from being subjected to scientific bias? Mainly to show that nothing in the bible can be subjected to scientific bias because it doesnt add up, your proving my point. And thus I ask why does the church and religious people have such a force in science? Also if the bible cant be subjected to scientific bias, than what sets it apart from all other fair tales? If there is no evidence of superior intell
@dsteph2008 , or even worst, to just ignore it and state that the bible cant be subjected to science, by stating it for other reasons, thats not my problem its the contradictions! What iam getting at is that if you look at this logical analyze the FACTS the answer is clear, your just manage to make it blurry with your faith, if you subject the bible to how it should be tested it fails, but ur faith tells u "o its a song" "o its a metaphor" "o it cant be asked of that its jsut the WORD OF GOD!"
@dsteph2008 [Chronicles 16:30] "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved." [Psalm 104:5 says], "the Lord Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."
Than look at the history of the church once the theroy of evolution had too much support they finally supported it (pope john pual, sorry if ur not affiltied with that belief) but prior to this evolution was a devils trick, full of trying to make us non belivers and contradictory to the scripture.
@dsteph2008 Sure maybe God didnt want this, and maybe this was just the weakness of men to deny all things sceince, but if so why didnt god raise any of these sceincitific facts in his bible, the evolution of the speices, the actually age of the earth, the actually age of human beings?(which he gets wrong btw) because the sceince of the time had no idea, so they wrote a book explaining it all. I dont have my bible with me, but i know that a true christian believer will speak new tongues
@led335 They will pick up serpents And if they will DRINK any deadly poison, it will not harm themThey will lay hands on sick, and they will recover.Can you do any of these things? I dont think any one can, and to me it sounds like a lot of ancient rituals, to say the bible is the word of God is laughable. If it is, God had some serious ego issues killing 900 people for asking for meat with their bread and wine, for destroying the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because enjoyed sex and didnt listen
@led335 I'm a little confused you say you went to a catholic elementary and high school right? If that's the case then you should know what the Bible is and what it isn't. The Bible is not a scientific text it doesn't talk about dinosaurs, theories of evolution, age of the earth etc... The Bible is a book that chronicles the redemption and restoration of mankind from the fall (into sin). None of those things have anything to do with restoration of mankind.
@dsteph2008 iam sorry did u not just say " Can you give me an example of what you believe are theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again?" if moses did spilt the sea he defied every law of science, if the earth is said old it defied all the natural mechansim of evolution etc, if those things i just spoke about truly did happen, it is the bible speaking of defying laws of nature, thats reason enough to think its fairytale
@dsteph2008 now dont say those are all lesson and metahpors, wtf kind of metophor is moses splitting the sea, or god kill ing millions of people for pity sins(minor sins) "The Bible is a book that chronicles the redemption and restoration of mankind from the fall" why didnt u state this hours before u questions me on the inconsistances in the bible, everytime i raise an obvious flaw u simply say dismiss it as that was not the intention of that verse, man ur blind to the obvious
@dsteph2008 why didnt u say that the bible cant be subjected to science before u asked me to prove it wrong with science? but really your missing my points here, iam not trying to do that, iam simply showing the contradictions with science that the bible has
@led335 I never said the Bible cannot be subjected to science. I said that you do not go to the Bible to get answers on dinosaurs, theories of evolution, the age of the earth, etc.. From your comments you seem to want God to explain scientific things in the Bible. The Bible is not a scientific text I'm not sure why you would think that would be included.
And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.
@dsteph2008 So since I believe God is not subject to the laws of science I can belive that events portrayed in the Bible that are scientifically impossible with us are possible with Him.
Luke 18:27 But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”
@led335 The Bible can be subjected to science (I never said it couldn't) however it is not a scientific text. I don't go to the Bible to get scientific knowledge. If you want to say that based upon the scientific knowledge that we have that events mentioned in the Bible are scientifically impossible I agree. The problem is because you don't believe in God you believe science rules the day. I believe that God is the author of science and it's laws and is not subject to them.
@dsteph2008 A few things, first I do not believe in scientific rules, i precieve scientific rules i oberserve them and they are taken as facts. You my good sir are the on who believes as there are no facts supporting your beliefs, and thus nothing to precieve. This is an important difference between you and I. But I am glad you came to the realization that "events mentioned in the Bible are scientifically impossible" this is crucial.
@led335 When I said that you believe science “rules” I was using the word “rule” as in “governs”. Many of the atheist and scientific community discount spiritual or supernatural things because they don’t fall within the realm of science, for them science has the final say it rules their decision making process. If it cannot be proven by science and be repeatable then it is impossible.
@dsteph2008 again thats not the crux of my argument, you believe in a book that was originally meant to guide the jewish people out of Egypt into their new homeland, the laws in the book were simply laws for those people as any 'country' or form of government would do for its people, set up a system that works, and in order to get their point across they proved their governance through a superior power, just like all other societies at the time
@led335 Science is ever changing and what is viewed as truth today may not be viewed that way tomorrow. However I understand the need to have some sense realm evidence of Biblical claims. Atheist and those that believe along those lines repeatedly suggest that others open their minds but I find it rather closed in thinking to believe that science has the answer to everything.
@led335 Whereas many people in religious circles only examine the world through their religious beliefs such is the same with those in the atheist community (it’s science or bust). While my personal belief is that the truth lies in a combination of both (not either or).
@dsteph2008 it is for the reason i dont believe in it, not because i get my beliefs solely from science, i would never limit myself, I just look at the bigger picture, and the bigger picture of religion was stated below, just a tale like every other belief humans have had, just this one caught on there is no reason AT ALL to state otherwise, every belief talked about a superior entity, and miracles preformed by him, and how we are loyal to him for those miracles no iam loyal to no one but myself
@dsteph2008 We can now see that the bible is on the same playing feild as the rest of the religious texts ( mormonism, greek mytholgy) its all one in the same, as not one book has a greater knowledge than the other. So why can you than believe in this book, the bible and not the rest? This is for the sole reason because of history. because you were born of christian parnets, because Constanopole took the catholic symbol on his shield going into battle against the german tribes
@dsteph2008 because of the socail influences. This is what I meant by “history disproves religion not sceince” you can obviously make ur argument and ur beliefs flexibile enough to corralte with sceince by saying well, god did it, and he is all powerful. Fair enough, but why this god? Wy put so much FAITH in something to allow it to defy everything u observe?(such as scientific law) here is nothing in the bible of value to us,there is no sign of superior intelligence,
@led335 Come on do you actually believe “there is nothing in the Bible of value”? Once again the only way someone could believe that is to do exactly what you are claiming that believers of the Bible are doing, to ignore passages. Why would someone allow the Bible to defy everything they observe such as scientific law? Because everyone doesn't base spiritual things on science.
@dsteph2008 We rely on science everyday of our lives and, but you need a miracle, you fold your hands and wish something into existence as though it would really happen. Prayer is just folding your hands and responding to the voice in your head and hope to suspend the laws of nature in your favor and at the same time think you're the center of the universe. At the same time 9million children die every year before the age of 5 and yet you say jesus loves the little children, Snap out of it dude.
@dsteph2008 We rely on science everyday of our lives and, but you need a miracle, you fold your hands and wish something into existence as though it would really happen. Prayer is just folding your hands and responding to the voice in your head and hope to suspend the laws of nature in your favor and at the same time think you're the center of the universe. At the same time 9million children die every year before the age of 5 and yet you say jesus loves the little children, Snap out of it dude.
@dsteph2008 or a sign of superior morality, in fact in the things I have list it would show quite the oppsite ( I.e god killing so many people throught the bible, gods ego problem etc and the bibles defying of sceincetific law)
@dsteph2008 Iam not a non believer because I am a men of sceince, iam a non beliver because of iam an indivdual, I am not going to believe in something that is so trying just because the masses do, I would rather believe in myself. When I look at the religious books I dont see works of god, but of people, the culture and the morals are so relfected in thses books that it would defy my common sense to belive in them being writings of a superior leader.And if god meant for this why would he?
@dsteph2008 Did he not know that humans would progress and shouldnt we get a new one then to clear things up? The lessons in the book are all pointless and can be easily answered with scinece now adays ( the creation of the earth) The God is no better than any of us, and heaven sounds like a terrible place
@dsteph2008 read some ann rynd or somthing develop an individual state of mind think outside the box dont just justify everything your read in the bible by dismissing it as a misinterpted methaphor, if do i have thousands of other ancient religious texts that u can follow, they just never caught on because they never caught eye of the leader of rome, or another major influence civilization as christainty just so happened to
@dsteph2008 lastly ways more like, that the laws of nature truly were defied, or that the story is simply misinterped or simply that just a story a false one, if i told u i saw a man fly, you would not beleive that men can now fly, but would take it as simply me misinterpting wat i saw flying for a man. The only difference is i dont have the following of millions of blind sheep, but i guess ur right, fuck ur ablilty to anaylze knowledge and go with the magority! it is a democrate world after all
@dsteph2008 We rely on science everyday of our lives and, but you need a miracle, you fold your hands and wish something into existence as though it would really happen. Prayer is just folding your hands and responding to the voice in your head and hope to suspend the laws of nature in your favor and at the same time think you're the center of the universe. At the same time 9million children die every year before the age of 5 and yet you say jesus loves the little children, Snap out of it dude.
@dsteph2008 The bible is rife with his low self esteem, sure he saves it every once and awhile and sounds like a nice guy, but most of the time he speaks of the terrible that will happen if you dont believe. You can call these methaphors but it does not support your agrument it just shows you as despartly ignorant Science shows repeatedly that the Bible was written by men, with no sign of any identifiable reliable input from an intelligence more abreast with the scientific facts
@dsteph2008 The current stance against gays, the denouncing of the use of birth control(yea thats a great way to stop the spread of aids), and really, I mean how moral are the people of the church anyway? Defiantly no more than you or I the crusade, the child molesting scandal. If these are people who deliver the word of God, and can read the scripture better than I, wtf is in that scripture?
@led335 Why is it that so many people that are atheist or side with atheism seem to be so pro gay? Personally I don't put my faith in people because people are prone to fail and disappoint so I don't allow the shortcomings of man even those that profess ministry callings to influence my belief.
Psalm 118:8
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
@dsteph2008 I dont see a superior ability to interrupt the words of God, but someone who is desperate to hold onto archaic beliefs that are out dated, and only become more flawed as we progress in our knowledge. And no offense but physics is the one science that really plays no role in our relationship with God as it doesn't deal with any of the topics dealt with in bible anyway. But isnt it beautiful they way the laws of science(physics specially) have given us such a beautiful place to live
@led335 mM comment regarding physics was geared towards the order that is viewed in the universe rather than playing a role in our relationship with God.
@dsteph2008 just a bit more about the science issue my uncle has a phd in biochemistry and one of the most devote Christians i have ever met, for a few reasons, belief can be awfully blinding, and it depends usually more on social conditions that lead to open mindedness about these things. The teachings of his time were mainly done by religious people anyway who would ignore many of the facts. But lastly this is the main reason for my comment "it is not science but history that debunks religion
@dsteph2008 and yes there are many versions of the bible, King James Version etc. all written to benefit those who wrote it(IE so the king could leave his wife) God dealing with people differently? Are we all equal why should he do such a thing? And just so you know your old testimot was stoeln from the jewish people, its not very orignal, all three magor religions judasim islam and chiritsainity can be linked back to the same source, thats a historical fact.
@led335 Don't think I know about the king leaving his wife. No we are not all equal we are not all children of God that is a lie perpetuated by those that once again don't scripture. You are either a Jew (God's chosen people) a gentile (a person that has no covenant with God) or part of the church (those that have professed Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior). To be a child of God you must be adopted into the family of God (Galatians 4:4-6 Ephesians 1:4-6).
@dsteph2008 Its not even sceince that debunks religion but history. I dont believe because the bible and religion offers me nothing, only to comfort of what shall happen after I die? It has been wrong and wrong again on countless issues, why put FAITH in that.
@led335 It's funny that you say science debunks religion because being a person that has a BS in Physics and a MS in Nuclear Engineering I find that science and the laws of science actually lend more support to there being something that has created the order that we find in our universe.
@led335 Who it is written to makes all the difference. You seem to have taken offense regarding something that has nothing to do with you or people today. The Bible doesn't tell YOU to stone anyone. I'm not sure where you received information that the Bible has been re-written numerous times but the New Testament is an inclusion of the Gentiles (all non Jewish people) and transition from the Law of God (Old Testament) to the grace of God.
@led335 You have given your opinion on how you believe God would have writen the Bible unfortunately that's not how it works. God is not subject to how we think things should go. As I mentioned before it is not my intention to make anyone believe or make excuses to believe but to inform and to educate in how to read the Bible. If you don't believe that's your choice however I don't believe your reasoning for not believing is a valid one because it's flawed with incorrect information.
@TRUTHERish What happened? I moved into construction mode of my home theater room. Every night it's come home and do a couple hours of work, readjust the daily schedule, head to bed. Even my wife has been like what's up I haven't seen you that much but she'll enjoy the 100" screen once I'm complete.
@TRUTHERish In summation of our debate I’m not sure how much more can be said. You believe God commanded slavery, I believe that God condoned the institution of bondmen but MAN was responsible for abusing that system thereby creating a system of slavery (bondmen is different from slavery and has a different definition in the Hebrew language).
@TRUTHERish You seem to believe that allowing something to happen and condoning that action are one in the same I don’t God is not responsible for man’s actions (we have free will to do as we please and God doesn’t supersede our will).
@TRUTHERish You believe that God’s command NOT TO RULE WITH RIGOR over fellow Israelites was a command TO RULE WITH RIGOR over non Israelites, it doesn’t say that and there were rules for treatment of those under someone’s authority. Of course I didn’t go into all the differences in opinion that we have on this topic however, one thing is clear man has always tried to find a way to blame God for what is his own fault.
@TRUTHERish Why put a fruit in the garden make it look appealing and tell man he can’t eat it, then when he does eat it (It’s God’s fault) Adam tried to blame God for giving him the woman instead of taking the fault himself, Why give me sexual desire and then tell me I can’t do it outside of certain constraints (It’s God’s fault I can’t control myself),
@TRUTHERish Why setup a system that you know man will abuse (once again somehow it must be God’s fault). God didn’t command the institution of slavery it doesn’t say that but we have to have someone to blame and God forbid we blame ourselves or think that we (as mankind) have been manipulated by the enemy (oh I forgot Satan doesn’t exist therefore it must be God’s fault).
Wow dsteph2008, you would really go through any lengths to support your God and Bible huh? How can you rationalize slavery in any way, shape or fashion? In Leviticus 25:36-46 God tells the Hebrews not to enslave each other with cruelty but it is okay to enslave others with cruelty (rigor). Are you seriously going to say that this is not what it means?
@TRUTHERish What I am saying is this is what happens when you only look at one passage of scripture on a subject. First you totally ignore the difference between the aspect of allowing a person to be a bondmen and condoning their treatment, second you ignore the reasoning on why some became bondmen, third you ignore any other scripture that deals with the rules for treatment that clash with your vision of “slavery”,
@TRUTHERish fourth you use the wrong word for the discussion at hand to try and bolster your claim and finally you continue to make a straw man argument.
So let me get this right you’re saying that (in your mind) Lev 25:46 says that the Israelite people can rule with rigour over non-Israelite people because it instructs them NOT to rule with rigour over their Israelite brethren. Don’t do it to your people but it ok to do to everyone else?
@TRUTHERish How do you put that together that’s not even written there, how do you make that leap?
Let’s use this same logic in another situation. Let’s say a mother tells her son not to hit his sister by your logic the mother would be condoning her son to hit everyone else (after all the mother only told him not to hit his sister).
While children might use that excuse most adults don’t reason that way.
@dsteph2008 Who do you think you are talking to dsteph? You think you are talking to some fool? Your God does exactly that! He says "thou shalt not kill" and then commands the Hebrews to kill, he says don't treat your brethren slaves harshly, but do so to the heathen. It is clear that you sir, are delusional!!
Lev 25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Just answer me one thing where does it say treat heathen harshly?
The only way you could substantiate that way of reasoning is if you didn’t know it was wrong to hit anyone period such as the case with the Israelites it was wrong to treat any servants (Hebrew or foreigner) harshly. It was only emphasized when dealing with their fellow brethren.
@dsteph2008 How ignorant is this! You get the death penalty for kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), but you only get punished for killing another human (servant)? Your gods justice is wonderful dsteph2008. Are you serious with this stuff, or are you pulling my leg??
26And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. 27And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
@dsteph2008 You can't see the ignorance in this? First off, it is condoning slavery!!! During slavery in the United States there were also laws to protect slaves. But let me ask you dsteph2008, since you claim that this biblical slavery was a cake walk, would you prefered to be a slave or a non-slave?
@TRUTHERish The essense of a straw man argument is to misrepresent an oppositions position. Where in our debate have I claimed slavery was a cake walk? You're trying to argue a point I never stated. Somewhere in your mind I said that please go back and look at our discussion find where you believe I stated that copy it and paste it in your response to me.
18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
I'm sure you'll ignore the scriptures that I've provided to you and continue to look at scripture with blinders on still making the same point, falsely blaming God for man's treatment towards his fellow man.
I’m still waiting for some scripture from you that shows God COMMANDING cruel treatment of servants/laborers as you say He does. Not something you've embellished in your own reasoning.
@dsteph2008 I am reading the Bible with blinders? Stop playing dsteph2008. It isn't man who is speaking in Leviticus 25:36-46. It is the Lord himself! In verse 44 he tells his people that they can bequeath slaves as property to their children. In Exodus 21:20 God says it okay to beat the crap out of your slave as long as he doesn't die!! These are the words of your god dsteph.
This is the type of ignorance that believers are mind controlled with. Firstly, the Hebrew term in the Bible for “let there be,” is “hayah.” It means “to be or become.” This is where the very word for the so-called creator comes from. The creator being Yahweh (of course we know he is fictitious). Clearly when something is created, it has “become” something. This fool needs to read the new book by Jose M. Paulino (The Fraud of Religion).
@dsteph2008 Your God allows slavery, murder, rape, and pillage. Naturally because you want to believe that the god of the Bible is good, you will say that what he did was okay because of the cultural context. I wonder if those slaves thought the same as you do? I also wonder if they thought their slavery wasn’t that bad because “God said it was okay.”
@TRUTHERish I think that you have to be careful not to confuse allowing with condoning their treatment. It is apparent from scripture and everyday life that God allows bad things to happen however, it is also apparent from scripture that He doesn’t not condone the actions of persons that commit the bad actions. Allowing someone to be a bondmen is different that condoning the actions that follow the institution of bondmen.
@TRUTHERish Also, let’s be careful of the wording we are using so we don’t get confused and be guilty of “misrepresenting” (as you say) using words interchangeably. The word slavery has very strong images that come along with it however, are those images the original intent or are they the result of people that abuse the institution of bondmen. When we hear the word “slavery” we immediately have visions of misery and oppression.
I agree with you on the definition of the word “bondservant” however, that is NOT the word we’re dealing with. The word used in Lev 25:46 is “bondmen” which is the word “abad” in Hebrew it means to work, to serve, serve another by labor it is NOT defined as “slave”. So with this definition we understand that the foreigners could be used as servants and laborers.
@TRUTHERish Yes a Hebrew person was not considered a bondmen but a “hired servant” the main difference between the two is they were to labor for a predetermined time whereas the bondmen may be for life. In either case there were rules established the problem arises when people that are put in authority begin to abuse that authority.
@TRUTHERish Personally I believe when abuses are committed we step out of the realm of bondmen and into the realm of slavery (but for many I know that would just be a matter of semantics). It is this abuse that perverts the original intent so if we’re going to look at this we need to look at what does the scripture say about those abuses. By noting those we can get a clearer picture on God’s heart on the matter.
@TRUTHERish So what does the Bible say about murder, rape and cruel treatment in the context of the subject we are talking about as well as in general?
The scripture at hand doesn’t command harsh treatment, murder or rape of those that are bondmen. In fact there are rules against such actions not only for bondmen but as a whole for all people.
@TRUTHERish Obviously there were those that chose to ignore the rules and abuse the system. Again it’s obvious that God allowed such abuses after all He has given us free will to do as we wish however, there are consequences for our actions.
I’m not saying that their situation wasn’t bad or that it was an enjoyable one. I just believe if we are looking to place blame on their treatment it should be placed on the persons that actually committed the treatment.
@TRUTHERish For some people allowing and committing is one in the same. However, a police will allow you to run a red light and will then promptly pull you over and subject you to the consequence of your actions all the while you don’t say the police was ignorant for allowing you to go through the light. Life is choice driven we live and die by the choices we make.
@dsteph2008 You obviously didn’t think before you answered. The biggest problem with your little example is that your god is the one who allowed it these horrible acts. In comparison, the cop allows you to go through the red light and then quickly pursues you. In the case of God, he is the one who is telling you to go ahead and run the light because he says it is okay and he is the boss.
@TRUTHERish No God didn't tell people to abuse their authority. God didn't tell anyone to kill, murder or rape those who were serving them. Once again you seem to be either ignoring the difference between allowing and condoning, don't understand the difference or they are one in the same for you. The cop allows someone to go throught the light God allows people to abuse authority. The cop didn't tell someone to run the light no more than God telling someone to abuse their authority.
@TRUTHERish God allowed people to be servants when you find a scripture of God TELLING those in authority to murder, rape and abuse those that are their servants (in the context of the subject at hand) get back to me and I will gladly concede to your point. Until then your argument that God is TELLING you to "run through the light" (i.e. God TOLD the Hebrew people to commit abuses towards those that were their servants) your argument doesn't hold up. I'll be waiting on that scripture.
@dsteph2008 Exodus 21:1-4 (King James Version) Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
This is the same bullshit looped over and over for 10 minutes... It still doesn't change the fact that people don't believe in it. And she's pretty much right. Just like Men Are Better Than Women.
@kstno1son My goal in responding to Stasie was only to show that she lacked the proper research pertatining to the context of scricture. People that agree with Stasie based on what she put forth only indicate that they too are willing to ignore context. If that's how you live your life then that's up to you. However it would be better if you actually researched and understood context before you agreed so quickly. I know you're attracted to her but her deductive reasoning skills need some work.
@dsteph2008 You never addressed why Stasie's context was incorrect. You only said it was!! I just read a book called "The Fraud of Religion," in which the author ask why your all powerful god would leave his words open to misinterpretation and then burn people in hell for not believing.
@TRUTHERish In responding to your statement that I never addressed why Stasie's context was incorrect I have one initial question for you. As I'm sue you noticed the title of my video has pt 1 at the end. This is only part 1 of a 4 part video did you happen to listen to the entire 4 parts or did you do as Stasie did in her attempt to discredit scripture (look at 1 small part and then respond without taking all that was said into account)?
@TRUTHERish It wasn't a matter of Stasie's context because she used no context at all. She read an individual scripture and then formed a conclusion not looking at how that particular scripture compared to other scripture on the same topic. She didn't even read the entire chapter when it came down to "dashing heads against the stone". If she would have read the entire chapter she would have gotten an explanation of why that was said and realized the God wasn't telling anyone to do that.
@TRUTHERish The comment of God leaving His word open to interpretation is a more a matter of people wanting to come up with their own interpretation. We as mankind like to try and find a loophole we do it in business, in contracts, in marriage when something isn't the way we want it to be we try to find a way out and that's what people do with scripture. Inherently we don't want someone telling what we should do we want to be free to do as we please (the American way).
@TRUTHERish God doesn't burn people in hell, He doesn't sent people to hell. He gives them the freedom to make a choice. People go to hell because they are not willing to do what is required of them to avoid hell. The decision is theirs not God's. If you choose to rob a bank and then get caught and go to jail it's not the police's fault, you choose to go against the established law so you reap the consequence but the choice was yours.
no matter to who it was being "ridden to" like you say, it's irrellevant.
If it was a Gods word it would surley have been handed down in a clear manner NEVER to be confused or misunderstood. The fact that we have YOUR interpretation clashing with that of many others speaks volumes.
or, GOD (like you vaguely explain) just has piss poor communication skills and many do not understand him because he lacks foresight on how his word will be taken a few thousand years later.
@osityan Well the problem with the "clear manner" in which you describe is that what's clear to one person may not be clear to another.
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
@dsteph2008 Well this is your god we're talking about.
He'd be able to figure it out so it would work. He wouldn't leave it to simple people like you or me to explain. Sorry, these are old books written by crazy people with bigotted ideas.
@osityan I have a Bachelor's in Physics for me Physics is clear and understandable however, for others it is not. My response to StasieDark was to explain scriptures that she obviously lacked the background on. For her it wasn’t clear mostly because she just read a scripture and didn't take any consideration of the context in which it was written, who it was written to or any other supportive scriptures on that topic. If you do that it is easy to be confused.
@osityan I don't believe I ever mentioned anything about my Physics degree giving me a better understanding on scripture. That appears to be a personal issue you've come up with on your own however, I am a licensed Minister and have a Ministry Diploma which would probably give me a little more insight that the average Christian.
@osityan The problem is not the Bible it's how people ignore the entirety of scripture taking one scripture and running with it. To say that God's word would have been handed down in a clear manner NEVER to be confused or misunderstood is to say that man is infallible which you and I both know isn't true.
@osityan If you have children you know that you can tell them something clearly have them repeat it back to you and they still go and do the opposite of what you told them to do and then they say something like “ I thought you meant something else”.
Grownups are much the same they do what they want to do then blame God for not being clear. When in reality they haven’t even read the playbook they go on bits and pieces and what they’ve heard from others that are just as uninformed as they are.
Praise God . :) Grace be with you bro. :D
leannkookie 3 months ago
If it's so easy to be turned of by the bible, what's wrong in your god just revealing himself to us and say here I am. Why do christians tell us we're going to hell? That's a threat. When we stand up against that, they feel persecuted and wronged and then in the very same nature want power in government? You're damned if you say you're atheist and want to run for office. You'll never hear the end of it. And just because we don't believe in the same god as you, we'll burn forever? What a threat
time2learnnow 5 months ago
@time2learnnow - It's obvious you have some issues with some statements made by some within the Christian faith as well as some issues with Christians vs atheist in politics but I'm trying to see how any of that has to do with the video presented here?
dsteph2008 5 months ago
Wonderful Video my brother.
KEGGAE45 6 months ago
Thanks for responding to that woman's video. I can't talk to atheists. I have trouble even listening to them because they are so abrasive and condescending, yet so ignorant and closed minded.
donnajeanh 7 months ago
@donnajeanh Yes I definately know what you mean. However, I actually enjoy most of my conversations with them. I don't really think I'm going to change their minds but others that are on the fence that read the conversations and see the videos might be able to make a more informed decision.
dsteph2008 7 months ago
@donnajeanh DUDE THIS IS BULLSHIT!
CAMBOD55 6 months ago
@CAMBOD55 I agree
time2learnnow 5 months ago
@donnajeanh ignorant closed mined.... as a athiest i dont feal condescending to relegios people. but people like you the holy rollers. i have a problem listening to you because you belive god is every thing and if you do not belive you go to hell. look at it this way i was always told give god money and he will multiply it for you ok my question is he GOD creater of everything why the fuck dose he need money all religion is is a business i was a cristan for 13 year but i saw the truth
morrowindgodz 5 months ago
You seem like a cool, thoughtful dude.
mh1402 9 months ago
what about the other religions, if your only allowed to believe in one God, does that mean that all other religions go to hell? and if so doesn't it suck that religion is almost strictly geographical disruption of the human population spread through culture and linage. Does that mean all believers in Hindu are going to hell?
led335 10 months ago
@led335
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
John 14:5-6 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 thats all very well but what if you believe in the spirits of the native Americans, or Buddha are u destinate to hell?>
led335 10 months ago
I mean common u ever read genesis, its hilarious, every time it says something is created it, it reverse a few pages down. GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created. GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created. Hmm should I interrupt that as god testing my faith? or was God just really confused on how we named all our creatures? seriously look at
GE 2:7, 19 and GE 1:20-21, 26-27
GE 1:24-27 and GE 2:7, 19
GE 1:26-27 and GE 2:7, 21-22
GE 1:28 and LE 12:1-8
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Well I see that you want to pull me into a debate well I'll ablidge you for a moment.
1 Corinthians 2:13-15
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 This is exactly what I’m talking about in reference to being able to understand what you are reading. Because you can only look at the Bible from a natural perspective you interpret from a natural perspective and because of that your knowledge is limited.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335
Acts 8:27-30
And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335
Acts 8:27-30 con't
And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 Just as this Ethiopian need someone to guide him in understanding scripture I will attempt to guide you however in my many discussion with those of your belief I already realize that the discourse will be filled with angry hateful rebuttals on your part but at least I would have done my part to try and educate. So let’s begin shall we…
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
The our that is being referred to is the Holy Trinity God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity are not flesh and blood people they are Spirits.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
So since God is a spirit when the Bible mentions that man is created in God’s image and after our (the Holy Trinity) image it is not referring to the flesh and blood body it is referring to man’s spirit.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This scripture let’s us know that we are created tri-part beings. We are spiritual beings living in a physical body and we possess a soul. Our soul is made up of 5 components the mind, intellect, imagination, emotions and our will these things make us the unique persons that we are.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 In addition to understanding how to correctly interpret scripture you must understand God's order of creating things. God creates 1st in the spiritual realm then in the natural realm (just as we do). Engineers think of how they want to design a car 1st (within our spiritual/soulish realm the mind) then they work off of that thought to create the car in the natural. Gen 1:26 is the spiritual creation of all mankind men and women.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
This scriptural is not a remaking of man but the forming of the physical flesh and blood body of man.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 Note the difference in wording between Gen 1:26 “make man” and Gen 2:7 “God formed man” forming is a clear indication of a physical creation however even with the creation of a physical body man was not yet a living soul hence the breath of life the spirit of man that was spoke of in Gen 1:26 had to be added.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 If one only thinks of man as the physical body then it is understandable how these scriptures would be confusing. When God refers to man He is referring to the real man which is spirit not our flesh for the flesh will pass away but the spirit it eternal
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 If one only thinks of man as the physical body then it is understandable how these scriptures would be confusing. When God refers to man He is referring to the real man which is spirit not our flesh for the flesh will pass away but the spirit it eternal.
Genesis 2:5
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 This scripture is merely mentioning that vegetation was on the planet before the forming of man's physical flesh and blood body. Which is supported by Gen 1:11-12 with the creation of vegetation on the third day which also preceded the forming of man(kind) as a spirit.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
Who cares who it is written to if it tells you to stone wives who commit blamsphey? and yes as a historain you must take everything in context, translations, cultural influences, etc, BUT WTF WHY BELIEVE IN IT! why believe in something that has to be re written numerous times, why believe in something that is influenced so much by the people who wrote it, if it was god we wouldnt see nor need any of that, fuck stop making accuses to believe
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Well my response to Stasie wasn't to persuade anyone to believe in the Bible but to show how someone that doesn't kow how to correctly interpret scripture can easily form incorrect opinions and conclusions about the Bible. Believing in the Bible is a matter of faith where you see individual writers influence other may see God dealing with people differently based on cultural overtones at that time as well as His particular relationship with the Israelite people.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 Interpret the bible? And how excatly to do u that properly? Ignore all the terrible passages?
its not a matter of faith its a matter of ignorance, and I do take offense when a religious person tries to jusifiy the bible, its a book of hate and racism. It should play no role in the morals dictated for todays lifestyle. So much of the bible is ignored by those who believe as the rules are ridiculous.
led335 10 months ago
@led335 You interpret correctly 1st by understanding the context, cultual references, examining what the translated words mean in the original Hebrew and Greek and not stricly in our language, you take examine all scriptures on a topic and not just form an opinion or doctrine on one scripture. To say that the Bible is a book of hate and racism is to do exactly what you are claiming those that believe in the Bible are doing ignoring passages.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 What rules that apply to the church today do you find ridiculous? Remember rules that apply to the church today not all of those ritualistic rules geared towards the Israelite people in the Old Testament.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 To do this is not a testimont of faith, or skill of how to interpret the bible "properly" all that is simply an accuse to hold onto these ridiculous beliefs. God killed more people in the bible that the supposed devil. God punished adam and eve for doing wrong even though they weere made with no knowledge of good and evil. We dont belive royalty have healing powers anymore, why do we still think theres a magical man in the sky that gave us birth?
led335 10 months ago
@led335 God gave them a choice just as he gives us a choice and they made a bad choice.
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Life is chooice driven we live and die based upon the choices we make it's not God's fault many of us make bad choices.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 I went to catholic elementary school and high school, I know how to interrupt the scripture. BTW read correctly I said it is not sceince thats debunks religion but history. Good try though, and from someone who has a BS in geophysics, I say it was the geo part of that degree that showed science in a light in which God couldn;t agree. The earth is 4.56 billion years old, how old is it according to the church? Well as you said, men must help the way to God am I correct?
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Well that's your problem you went to catholic school you may have been taught to read the bible but there is a difference between reading and interpreting hence your confusion on Genesis Chapters 1 & 2. In reference to how old the earth is I can hardly give an answer for the church since there are a variety of answers that are given however, as a Radiation Safety Officer by profession I do agree that based upon radiometric studies that the earth is on the order of 4.5 billion years old.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 Well one of those men said that earth was only 4000 years old? weird.... Everything since Darwin's evolution of the species all religious fellows have done is deny it, why? because it shows a path of human creation not seen by the scripture nor does it need any God to explain it. A God can only fit the bill when we speak of the start, the creation of everything, the lighter that set off the big bang. By why would we put him in such a place?
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 The scripture has bee proven wrong and wrong again over theories of science, why would we suddenly place a superior entity to explain what science has yet to explain, when all this has done in the past is hold us back, IE Galileo in jail etc. You can say I dont know how to interrupt the scripture but isnt that the beauty of Islam it is the direct word from Muhammad, directly from God, which makes a lot more sense than letting evil men guide you on how to interrupt it.
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Can you give me an example of what you believe are theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again?
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 One issue, with well me raising issues, is I hate to say it, but you are very absorbed in your faith and regardless of what I bring forth the words of the bible will be twisted against me, which over all is the problem with the bible. But here we go, virgin birth, zombies walking, (both of which were very common among people in the time period of the bible, in fact so common that Jesus being born of a virgin and rising from the died would have been no big deal,
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 infact graves were covered for three days as they had no medical technology to know weather they had in fact died or not, and research virigin births in gods time if you dont belive the first part) the plants before the sun, the making of the earth in seven days, or is that god days? Noahs ark? The splitting of the sea? The heliocentric model (which as a physicts I hope you accpeat) [Chronicles 16:30] "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Now you mentioned a lot of things however I asked for theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again. The closest you got to providing a theory is the heliocentric model which I do accept. However the two scriptures you used aren't appropriate for your intended purpose. In interpreting the meaning of scripture you must read more than one verse.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 If you read the entire Chapter of 1 Chron 16 you will find that 1 Chron 16:30 is part of a psalm (or song) that David composed to thank God as well as all of Psalms are songs. These are meant for inspiration, celebrating and praising. Do you have any other actual theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again?
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 oooo its a song shit, i guess we can just ignore that than eh? thats a great way to justify ur point ! Ur agruing a circle here, you just agrued that the bible couldnt be used to argue science, and yet ur continuing to try and further ur argument for such?? didnt u just dismiss all those scientifically impossible feats by saying the bible cant be used regarding such issues?
led335 10 months ago
@led335 What I said is the Bible is not a scientific text you don't go to the Bible to find out how old the earth is, you go to science. I'm failing to understand your point. Yes it is a song if you would have read the entire chapter you would have realized that. What is your point?
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 "What I said is the Bible is not a scientific text you don't go to the Bible to find out how old the earth is, you go to science." haha iam well aware, wat iam concerned with is when the bible contradicts the science, which you haven't been able to repute except for saying that it is a song, therefore exempt, or that it is a metaphor
led335 10 months ago
@led335 "However the two scriptures you used aren't appropriate for your intended purpose. In interpreting the meaning of scripture you must read more than one verse." haha seriously expand my knowledge than, what justifies those verse as being, in fact correct? also wat is the use of the bible than, as a moral guidence?> the purpose of the bible is debatable regardless, it even says within the scriuputre the many uses of the bible i just think that today, it serves no use for any of them
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 "Do you have any other actual theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again?" this questions makes no sense, how did the scientific laws of, well, child bearing not prove the bible wrong for claiming jesus was born of a virgin?unless iam suppose to disprove wat?the bible itself? like its existence? iam unsure of wat u want here? are you simply searching for the impossible so u can sleep tonight knowing that the your beliefs will bring u peace in the after life?
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 "However the two scriptures you used aren't appropriate for your intended purpose. In interpreting the meaning of scripture you must read more than one verse." haha seriously expand my knowledge than, what justifies those verse as being, in fact correct? also wat is the use of the bible than, as a moral guidence?> the purpose of the bible is debatable regardless, it even says within the scriuputre the many uses of the bible i just think that today, it serves no use for any of them
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 What justifies those verses as being correct???? I don't follow. You're trying to use verses to a song as proof that the Bible contradicts the heliocentric model??
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 My point is that just because a versus is part of a song, how does that disqualify it from being subjected to scientific bias? Mainly to show that nothing in the bible can be subjected to scientific bias because it doesnt add up, your proving my point. And thus I ask why does the church and religious people have such a force in science? Also if the bible cant be subjected to scientific bias, than what sets it apart from all other fair tales? If there is no evidence of superior intell
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 , or even worst, to just ignore it and state that the bible cant be subjected to science, by stating it for other reasons, thats not my problem its the contradictions! What iam getting at is that if you look at this logical analyze the FACTS the answer is clear, your just manage to make it blurry with your faith, if you subject the bible to how it should be tested it fails, but ur faith tells u "o its a song" "o its a metaphor" "o it cant be asked of that its jsut the WORD OF GOD!"
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 [Chronicles 16:30] "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved." [Psalm 104:5 says], "the Lord Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."
Than look at the history of the church once the theroy of evolution had too much support they finally supported it (pope john pual, sorry if ur not affiltied with that belief) but prior to this evolution was a devils trick, full of trying to make us non belivers and contradictory to the scripture.
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 Sure maybe God didnt want this, and maybe this was just the weakness of men to deny all things sceince, but if so why didnt god raise any of these sceincitific facts in his bible, the evolution of the speices, the actually age of the earth, the actually age of human beings?(which he gets wrong btw) because the sceince of the time had no idea, so they wrote a book explaining it all. I dont have my bible with me, but i know that a true christian believer will speak new tongues
led335 10 months ago
@led335 They will pick up serpents And if they will DRINK any deadly poison, it will not harm themThey will lay hands on sick, and they will recover.Can you do any of these things? I dont think any one can, and to me it sounds like a lot of ancient rituals, to say the bible is the word of God is laughable. If it is, God had some serious ego issues killing 900 people for asking for meat with their bread and wine, for destroying the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because enjoyed sex and didnt listen
led335 10 months ago
@led335 I'm a little confused you say you went to a catholic elementary and high school right? If that's the case then you should know what the Bible is and what it isn't. The Bible is not a scientific text it doesn't talk about dinosaurs, theories of evolution, age of the earth etc... The Bible is a book that chronicles the redemption and restoration of mankind from the fall (into sin). None of those things have anything to do with restoration of mankind.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 iam sorry did u not just say " Can you give me an example of what you believe are theories of science that have proven the Bible wrong and wrong again?" if moses did spilt the sea he defied every law of science, if the earth is said old it defied all the natural mechansim of evolution etc, if those things i just spoke about truly did happen, it is the bible speaking of defying laws of nature, thats reason enough to think its fairytale
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 now dont say those are all lesson and metahpors, wtf kind of metophor is moses splitting the sea, or god kill ing millions of people for pity sins(minor sins) "The Bible is a book that chronicles the redemption and restoration of mankind from the fall" why didnt u state this hours before u questions me on the inconsistances in the bible, everytime i raise an obvious flaw u simply say dismiss it as that was not the intention of that verse, man ur blind to the obvious
led335 10 months ago
@led335 I did not say they were metaphors. "Why didn't I state that hours before"?? Not sure where you're going with that.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 why didnt u say that the bible cant be subjected to science before u asked me to prove it wrong with science? but really your missing my points here, iam not trying to do that, iam simply showing the contradictions with science that the bible has
led335 10 months ago
@led335 I never said the Bible cannot be subjected to science. I said that you do not go to the Bible to get answers on dinosaurs, theories of evolution, the age of the earth, etc.. From your comments you seem to want God to explain scientific things in the Bible. The Bible is not a scientific text I'm not sure why you would think that would be included.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 k ill be more clear, subject the book to science, did moses separate the sea?
led335 10 months ago
@led335 No Moses did not seperate the sea God did.
Exodus 14:21
And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 So since I believe God is not subject to the laws of science I can belive that events portrayed in the Bible that are scientifically impossible with us are possible with Him.
Luke 18:27 But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 The Bible can be subjected to science (I never said it couldn't) however it is not a scientific text. I don't go to the Bible to get scientific knowledge. If you want to say that based upon the scientific knowledge that we have that events mentioned in the Bible are scientifically impossible I agree. The problem is because you don't believe in God you believe science rules the day. I believe that God is the author of science and it's laws and is not subject to them.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 A few things, first I do not believe in scientific rules, i precieve scientific rules i oberserve them and they are taken as facts. You my good sir are the on who believes as there are no facts supporting your beliefs, and thus nothing to precieve. This is an important difference between you and I. But I am glad you came to the realization that "events mentioned in the Bible are scientifically impossible" this is crucial.
led335 10 months ago
@led335 When I said that you believe science “rules” I was using the word “rule” as in “governs”. Many of the atheist and scientific community discount spiritual or supernatural things because they don’t fall within the realm of science, for them science has the final say it rules their decision making process. If it cannot be proven by science and be repeatable then it is impossible.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 again thats not the crux of my argument, you believe in a book that was originally meant to guide the jewish people out of Egypt into their new homeland, the laws in the book were simply laws for those people as any 'country' or form of government would do for its people, set up a system that works, and in order to get their point across they proved their governance through a superior power, just like all other societies at the time
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Science is ever changing and what is viewed as truth today may not be viewed that way tomorrow. However I understand the need to have some sense realm evidence of Biblical claims. Atheist and those that believe along those lines repeatedly suggest that others open their minds but I find it rather closed in thinking to believe that science has the answer to everything.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 Whereas many people in religious circles only examine the world through their religious beliefs such is the same with those in the atheist community (it’s science or bust). While my personal belief is that the truth lies in a combination of both (not either or).
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 it is for the reason i dont believe in it, not because i get my beliefs solely from science, i would never limit myself, I just look at the bigger picture, and the bigger picture of religion was stated below, just a tale like every other belief humans have had, just this one caught on there is no reason AT ALL to state otherwise, every belief talked about a superior entity, and miracles preformed by him, and how we are loyal to him for those miracles no iam loyal to no one but myself
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 We can now see that the bible is on the same playing feild as the rest of the religious texts ( mormonism, greek mytholgy) its all one in the same, as not one book has a greater knowledge than the other. So why can you than believe in this book, the bible and not the rest? This is for the sole reason because of history. because you were born of christian parnets, because Constanopole took the catholic symbol on his shield going into battle against the german tribes
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 because of the socail influences. This is what I meant by “history disproves religion not sceince” you can obviously make ur argument and ur beliefs flexibile enough to corralte with sceince by saying well, god did it, and he is all powerful. Fair enough, but why this god? Wy put so much FAITH in something to allow it to defy everything u observe?(such as scientific law) here is nothing in the bible of value to us,there is no sign of superior intelligence,
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Come on do you actually believe “there is nothing in the Bible of value”? Once again the only way someone could believe that is to do exactly what you are claiming that believers of the Bible are doing, to ignore passages. Why would someone allow the Bible to defy everything they observe such as scientific law? Because everyone doesn't base spiritual things on science.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 We rely on science everyday of our lives and, but you need a miracle, you fold your hands and wish something into existence as though it would really happen. Prayer is just folding your hands and responding to the voice in your head and hope to suspend the laws of nature in your favor and at the same time think you're the center of the universe. At the same time 9million children die every year before the age of 5 and yet you say jesus loves the little children, Snap out of it dude.
time2learnnow 5 months ago
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@dsteph2008 We rely on science everyday of our lives and, but you need a miracle, you fold your hands and wish something into existence as though it would really happen. Prayer is just folding your hands and responding to the voice in your head and hope to suspend the laws of nature in your favor and at the same time think you're the center of the universe. At the same time 9million children die every year before the age of 5 and yet you say jesus loves the little children, Snap out of it dude.
time2learnnow 5 months ago
@dsteph2008 or a sign of superior morality, in fact in the things I have list it would show quite the oppsite ( I.e god killing so many people throught the bible, gods ego problem etc and the bibles defying of sceincetific law)
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 Iam not a non believer because I am a men of sceince, iam a non beliver because of iam an indivdual, I am not going to believe in something that is so trying just because the masses do, I would rather believe in myself. When I look at the religious books I dont see works of god, but of people, the culture and the morals are so relfected in thses books that it would defy my common sense to belive in them being writings of a superior leader.And if god meant for this why would he?
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 Did he not know that humans would progress and shouldnt we get a new one then to clear things up? The lessons in the book are all pointless and can be easily answered with scinece now adays ( the creation of the earth) The God is no better than any of us, and heaven sounds like a terrible place
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 read some ann rynd or somthing develop an individual state of mind think outside the box dont just justify everything your read in the bible by dismissing it as a misinterpted methaphor, if do i have thousands of other ancient religious texts that u can follow, they just never caught on because they never caught eye of the leader of rome, or another major influence civilization as christainty just so happened to
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 lastly ways more like, that the laws of nature truly were defied, or that the story is simply misinterped or simply that just a story a false one, if i told u i saw a man fly, you would not beleive that men can now fly, but would take it as simply me misinterpting wat i saw flying for a man. The only difference is i dont have the following of millions of blind sheep, but i guess ur right, fuck ur ablilty to anaylze knowledge and go with the magority! it is a democrate world after all
led335 10 months ago
@led335 I see why you're frustrated you're looking for things in the Bible that you should be looking for in science.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
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@dsteph2008 We rely on science everyday of our lives and, but you need a miracle, you fold your hands and wish something into existence as though it would really happen. Prayer is just folding your hands and responding to the voice in your head and hope to suspend the laws of nature in your favor and at the same time think you're the center of the universe. At the same time 9million children die every year before the age of 5 and yet you say jesus loves the little children, Snap out of it dude.
time2learnnow 5 months ago
@dsteph2008 The bible is rife with his low self esteem, sure he saves it every once and awhile and sounds like a nice guy, but most of the time he speaks of the terrible that will happen if you dont believe. You can call these methaphors but it does not support your agrument it just shows you as despartly ignorant Science shows repeatedly that the Bible was written by men, with no sign of any identifiable reliable input from an intelligence more abreast with the scientific facts
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 The current stance against gays, the denouncing of the use of birth control(yea thats a great way to stop the spread of aids), and really, I mean how moral are the people of the church anyway? Defiantly no more than you or I the crusade, the child molesting scandal. If these are people who deliver the word of God, and can read the scripture better than I, wtf is in that scripture?
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Why is it that so many people that are atheist or side with atheism seem to be so pro gay? Personally I don't put my faith in people because people are prone to fail and disappoint so I don't allow the shortcomings of man even those that profess ministry callings to influence my belief.
Psalm 118:8
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 I dont see a superior ability to interrupt the words of God, but someone who is desperate to hold onto archaic beliefs that are out dated, and only become more flawed as we progress in our knowledge. And no offense but physics is the one science that really plays no role in our relationship with God as it doesn't deal with any of the topics dealt with in bible anyway. But isnt it beautiful they way the laws of science(physics specially) have given us such a beautiful place to live
led335 10 months ago
@led335 mM comment regarding physics was geared towards the order that is viewed in the universe rather than playing a role in our relationship with God.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 just a bit more about the science issue my uncle has a phd in biochemistry and one of the most devote Christians i have ever met, for a few reasons, belief can be awfully blinding, and it depends usually more on social conditions that lead to open mindedness about these things. The teachings of his time were mainly done by religious people anyway who would ignore many of the facts. But lastly this is the main reason for my comment "it is not science but history that debunks religion
led335 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 and yes there are many versions of the bible, King James Version etc. all written to benefit those who wrote it(IE so the king could leave his wife) God dealing with people differently? Are we all equal why should he do such a thing? And just so you know your old testimot was stoeln from the jewish people, its not very orignal, all three magor religions judasim islam and chiritsainity can be linked back to the same source, thats a historical fact.
led335 10 months ago
@led335 Don't think I know about the king leaving his wife. No we are not all equal we are not all children of God that is a lie perpetuated by those that once again don't scripture. You are either a Jew (God's chosen people) a gentile (a person that has no covenant with God) or part of the church (those that have professed Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior). To be a child of God you must be adopted into the family of God (Galatians 4:4-6 Ephesians 1:4-6).
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@dsteph2008 Its not even sceince that debunks religion but history. I dont believe because the bible and religion offers me nothing, only to comfort of what shall happen after I die? It has been wrong and wrong again on countless issues, why put FAITH in that.
led335 10 months ago
@led335 It's funny that you say science debunks religion because being a person that has a BS in Physics and a MS in Nuclear Engineering I find that science and the laws of science actually lend more support to there being something that has created the order that we find in our universe.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 Who it is written to makes all the difference. You seem to have taken offense regarding something that has nothing to do with you or people today. The Bible doesn't tell YOU to stone anyone. I'm not sure where you received information that the Bible has been re-written numerous times but the New Testament is an inclusion of the Gentiles (all non Jewish people) and transition from the Law of God (Old Testament) to the grace of God.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
@led335 You have given your opinion on how you believe God would have writen the Bible unfortunately that's not how it works. God is not subject to how we think things should go. As I mentioned before it is not my intention to make anyone believe or make excuses to believe but to inform and to educate in how to read the Bible. If you don't believe that's your choice however I don't believe your reasoning for not believing is a valid one because it's flawed with incorrect information.
dsteph2008 10 months ago
Good to see a wise man putting an Atheist in its place. Keep up the work, Oh wise one ^^
EmperorTharos 11 months ago
You are right about "HOW" to Interpret the Bible. She needs to re-evaluate her interpretation of the Biblical verses.
JSeely218 1 year ago
What happened to our debate dsteph2008?
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish What happened? I moved into construction mode of my home theater room. Every night it's come home and do a couple hours of work, readjust the daily schedule, head to bed. Even my wife has been like what's up I haven't seen you that much but she'll enjoy the 100" screen once I'm complete.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish In summation of our debate I’m not sure how much more can be said. You believe God commanded slavery, I believe that God condoned the institution of bondmen but MAN was responsible for abusing that system thereby creating a system of slavery (bondmen is different from slavery and has a different definition in the Hebrew language).
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish You seem to believe that allowing something to happen and condoning that action are one in the same I don’t God is not responsible for man’s actions (we have free will to do as we please and God doesn’t supersede our will).
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish You believe that God’s command NOT TO RULE WITH RIGOR over fellow Israelites was a command TO RULE WITH RIGOR over non Israelites, it doesn’t say that and there were rules for treatment of those under someone’s authority. Of course I didn’t go into all the differences in opinion that we have on this topic however, one thing is clear man has always tried to find a way to blame God for what is his own fault.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish Why put a fruit in the garden make it look appealing and tell man he can’t eat it, then when he does eat it (It’s God’s fault) Adam tried to blame God for giving him the woman instead of taking the fault himself, Why give me sexual desire and then tell me I can’t do it outside of certain constraints (It’s God’s fault I can’t control myself),
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish Why setup a system that you know man will abuse (once again somehow it must be God’s fault). God didn’t command the institution of slavery it doesn’t say that but we have to have someone to blame and God forbid we blame ourselves or think that we (as mankind) have been manipulated by the enemy (oh I forgot Satan doesn’t exist therefore it must be God’s fault).
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish Hence my point. Here's a reply I received a few weeks ago from
osityan.
osityan
4 weeks ago @dsteph2008
Blame the creator. He's the one with the flawed creation. We should file a class action for setting up the rules knowing we would break them.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
Go see Zeitgeist.
kstno1son 1 year ago
Wow dsteph2008, you would really go through any lengths to support your God and Bible huh? How can you rationalize slavery in any way, shape or fashion? In Leviticus 25:36-46 God tells the Hebrews not to enslave each other with cruelty but it is okay to enslave others with cruelty (rigor). Are you seriously going to say that this is not what it means?
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish What I am saying is this is what happens when you only look at one passage of scripture on a subject. First you totally ignore the difference between the aspect of allowing a person to be a bondmen and condoning their treatment, second you ignore the reasoning on why some became bondmen, third you ignore any other scripture that deals with the rules for treatment that clash with your vision of “slavery”,
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish fourth you use the wrong word for the discussion at hand to try and bolster your claim and finally you continue to make a straw man argument.
So let me get this right you’re saying that (in your mind) Lev 25:46 says that the Israelite people can rule with rigour over non-Israelite people because it instructs them NOT to rule with rigour over their Israelite brethren. Don’t do it to your people but it ok to do to everyone else?
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish How do you put that together that’s not even written there, how do you make that leap?
Let’s use this same logic in another situation. Let’s say a mother tells her son not to hit his sister by your logic the mother would be condoning her son to hit everyone else (after all the mother only told him not to hit his sister).
While children might use that excuse most adults don’t reason that way.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 Who do you think you are talking to dsteph? You think you are talking to some fool? Your God does exactly that! He says "thou shalt not kill" and then commands the Hebrews to kill, he says don't treat your brethren slaves harshly, but do so to the heathen. It is clear that you sir, are delusional!!
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
Let's stay on point. Here is the scripture
Lev 25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Just answer me one thing where does it say treat heathen harshly?
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
The only way you could substantiate that way of reasoning is if you didn’t know it was wrong to hit anyone period such as the case with the Israelites it was wrong to treat any servants (Hebrew or foreigner) harshly. It was only emphasized when dealing with their fellow brethren.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
Let me help you out with some scripture on natural punishment for treatment of servants:
Punishment for kidnapping and selling someone into servitude Ex 21:16
16And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Punishment for killing a servant Ex 21:20
20And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 How ignorant is this! You get the death penalty for kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), but you only get punished for killing another human (servant)? Your gods justice is wonderful dsteph2008. Are you serious with this stuff, or are you pulling my leg??
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
Punishment for injuring servants Ex 21:26-27
26And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. 27And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 You can't see the ignorance in this? First off, it is condoning slavery!!! During slavery in the United States there were also laws to protect slaves. But let me ask you dsteph2008, since you claim that this biblical slavery was a cake walk, would you prefered to be a slave or a non-slave?
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish The essense of a straw man argument is to misrepresent an oppositions position. Where in our debate have I claimed slavery was a cake walk? You're trying to argue a point I never stated. Somewhere in your mind I said that please go back and look at our discussion find where you believe I stated that copy it and paste it in your response to me.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
Even when God allows and doesn’t have a natural punishment for a person’s actions he follows it up with there will be a day of reckoning.
Romans 12:18-19
18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
I'm sure you'll ignore the scriptures that I've provided to you and continue to look at scripture with blinders on still making the same point, falsely blaming God for man's treatment towards his fellow man.
I’m still waiting for some scripture from you that shows God COMMANDING cruel treatment of servants/laborers as you say He does. Not something you've embellished in your own reasoning.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 I am reading the Bible with blinders? Stop playing dsteph2008. It isn't man who is speaking in Leviticus 25:36-46. It is the Lord himself! In verse 44 he tells his people that they can bequeath slaves as property to their children. In Exodus 21:20 God says it okay to beat the crap out of your slave as long as he doesn't die!! These are the words of your god dsteph.
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
This is the type of ignorance that believers are mind controlled with. Firstly, the Hebrew term in the Bible for “let there be,” is “hayah.” It means “to be or become.” This is where the very word for the so-called creator comes from. The creator being Yahweh (of course we know he is fictitious). Clearly when something is created, it has “become” something. This fool needs to read the new book by Jose M. Paulino (The Fraud of Religion).
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
I don't want to assume where you're going with this so could you expound on the point you're trying to make.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 You know exactly what I am talkin about.
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
Thanks for rationally explaining your point.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 Your God allows slavery, murder, rape, and pillage. Naturally because you want to believe that the god of the Bible is good, you will say that what he did was okay because of the cultural context. I wonder if those slaves thought the same as you do? I also wonder if they thought their slavery wasn’t that bad because “God said it was okay.”
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish I think that you have to be careful not to confuse allowing with condoning their treatment. It is apparent from scripture and everyday life that God allows bad things to happen however, it is also apparent from scripture that He doesn’t not condone the actions of persons that commit the bad actions. Allowing someone to be a bondmen is different that condoning the actions that follow the institution of bondmen.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish Also, let’s be careful of the wording we are using so we don’t get confused and be guilty of “misrepresenting” (as you say) using words interchangeably. The word slavery has very strong images that come along with it however, are those images the original intent or are they the result of people that abuse the institution of bondmen. When we hear the word “slavery” we immediately have visions of misery and oppression.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish
I agree with you on the definition of the word “bondservant” however, that is NOT the word we’re dealing with. The word used in Lev 25:46 is “bondmen” which is the word “abad” in Hebrew it means to work, to serve, serve another by labor it is NOT defined as “slave”. So with this definition we understand that the foreigners could be used as servants and laborers.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish Yes a Hebrew person was not considered a bondmen but a “hired servant” the main difference between the two is they were to labor for a predetermined time whereas the bondmen may be for life. In either case there were rules established the problem arises when people that are put in authority begin to abuse that authority.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish Personally I believe when abuses are committed we step out of the realm of bondmen and into the realm of slavery (but for many I know that would just be a matter of semantics). It is this abuse that perverts the original intent so if we’re going to look at this we need to look at what does the scripture say about those abuses. By noting those we can get a clearer picture on God’s heart on the matter.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish So what does the Bible say about murder, rape and cruel treatment in the context of the subject we are talking about as well as in general?
The scripture at hand doesn’t command harsh treatment, murder or rape of those that are bondmen. In fact there are rules against such actions not only for bondmen but as a whole for all people.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish Obviously there were those that chose to ignore the rules and abuse the system. Again it’s obvious that God allowed such abuses after all He has given us free will to do as we wish however, there are consequences for our actions.
I’m not saying that their situation wasn’t bad or that it was an enjoyable one. I just believe if we are looking to place blame on their treatment it should be placed on the persons that actually committed the treatment.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish For some people allowing and committing is one in the same. However, a police will allow you to run a red light and will then promptly pull you over and subject you to the consequence of your actions all the while you don’t say the police was ignorant for allowing you to go through the light. Life is choice driven we live and die by the choices we make.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 You obviously didn’t think before you answered. The biggest problem with your little example is that your god is the one who allowed it these horrible acts. In comparison, the cop allows you to go through the red light and then quickly pursues you. In the case of God, he is the one who is telling you to go ahead and run the light because he says it is okay and he is the boss.
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish No God didn't tell people to abuse their authority. God didn't tell anyone to kill, murder or rape those who were serving them. Once again you seem to be either ignoring the difference between allowing and condoning, don't understand the difference or they are one in the same for you. The cop allows someone to go throught the light God allows people to abuse authority. The cop didn't tell someone to run the light no more than God telling someone to abuse their authority.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish God allowed people to be servants when you find a scripture of God TELLING those in authority to murder, rape and abuse those that are their servants (in the context of the subject at hand) get back to me and I will gladly concede to your point. Until then your argument that God is TELLING you to "run through the light" (i.e. God TOLD the Hebrew people to commit abuses towards those that were their servants) your argument doesn't hold up. I'll be waiting on that scripture.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 Exodus 21:1-4 (King James Version) Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
This is the same bullshit looped over and over for 10 minutes... It still doesn't change the fact that people don't believe in it. And she's pretty much right. Just like Men Are Better Than Women.
kstno1son 1 year ago
@kstno1son My goal in responding to Stasie was only to show that she lacked the proper research pertatining to the context of scricture. People that agree with Stasie based on what she put forth only indicate that they too are willing to ignore context. If that's how you live your life then that's up to you. However it would be better if you actually researched and understood context before you agreed so quickly. I know you're attracted to her but her deductive reasoning skills need some work.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 You never addressed why Stasie's context was incorrect. You only said it was!! I just read a book called "The Fraud of Religion," in which the author ask why your all powerful god would leave his words open to misinterpretation and then burn people in hell for not believing.
TRUTHERish 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish In responding to your statement that I never addressed why Stasie's context was incorrect I have one initial question for you. As I'm sue you noticed the title of my video has pt 1 at the end. This is only part 1 of a 4 part video did you happen to listen to the entire 4 parts or did you do as Stasie did in her attempt to discredit scripture (look at 1 small part and then respond without taking all that was said into account)?
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish It wasn't a matter of Stasie's context because she used no context at all. She read an individual scripture and then formed a conclusion not looking at how that particular scripture compared to other scripture on the same topic. She didn't even read the entire chapter when it came down to "dashing heads against the stone". If she would have read the entire chapter she would have gotten an explanation of why that was said and realized the God wasn't telling anyone to do that.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish The comment of God leaving His word open to interpretation is a more a matter of people wanting to come up with their own interpretation. We as mankind like to try and find a loophole we do it in business, in contracts, in marriage when something isn't the way we want it to be we try to find a way out and that's what people do with scripture. Inherently we don't want someone telling what we should do we want to be free to do as we please (the American way).
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@TRUTHERish God doesn't burn people in hell, He doesn't sent people to hell. He gives them the freedom to make a choice. People go to hell because they are not willing to do what is required of them to avoid hell. The decision is theirs not God's. If you choose to rob a bank and then get caught and go to jail it's not the police's fault, you choose to go against the established law so you reap the consequence but the choice was yours.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 Ya kinda like the mafia.... do the "right thing " or else.
The god game you play is designed with rules that make you a loser at birth.
Sorry you can tell your god to shove it.
osityan 1 year ago
i like your accent
Kateabc1 1 year ago
no matter to who it was being "ridden to" like you say, it's irrellevant.
If it was a Gods word it would surley have been handed down in a clear manner NEVER to be confused or misunderstood. The fact that we have YOUR interpretation clashing with that of many others speaks volumes.
or, GOD (like you vaguely explain) just has piss poor communication skills and many do not understand him because he lacks foresight on how his word will be taken a few thousand years later.
osityan 1 year ago
@osityan Well the problem with the "clear manner" in which you describe is that what's clear to one person may not be clear to another.
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 Well this is your god we're talking about.
He'd be able to figure it out so it would work. He wouldn't leave it to simple people like you or me to explain. Sorry, these are old books written by crazy people with bigotted ideas.
osityan 1 year ago
@osityan I have a Bachelor's in Physics for me Physics is clear and understandable however, for others it is not. My response to StasieDark was to explain scriptures that she obviously lacked the background on. For her it wasn’t clear mostly because she just read a scripture and didn't take any consideration of the context in which it was written, who it was written to or any other supportive scriptures on that topic. If you do that it is easy to be confused.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 Bachelor's in Physics give you not better understanding on the scriptures than anyone else.
osityan 1 year ago
@osityan I don't believe I ever mentioned anything about my Physics degree giving me a better understanding on scripture. That appears to be a personal issue you've come up with on your own however, I am a licensed Minister and have a Ministry Diploma which would probably give me a little more insight that the average Christian.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@osityan The problem is not the Bible it's how people ignore the entirety of scripture taking one scripture and running with it. To say that God's word would have been handed down in a clear manner NEVER to be confused or misunderstood is to say that man is infallible which you and I both know isn't true.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008
Blame the creator. He's the one with the flawed creation. We should file a class action for setting up the rules knowing we would break them.
osityan 1 year ago
@osityan If you have children you know that you can tell them something clearly have them repeat it back to you and they still go and do the opposite of what you told them to do and then they say something like “ I thought you meant something else”.
Grownups are much the same they do what they want to do then blame God for not being clear. When in reality they haven’t even read the playbook they go on bits and pieces and what they’ve heard from others that are just as uninformed as they are.
dsteph2008 1 year ago
@dsteph2008 The book is full of bigotry and intolerance.
osityan 1 year ago