Maybe Lendl had no great talent for volley (but in 1990 he was way better than most of today guys on the net). BUt he had enormous talent for ground stokes.
...evolve your game, he might not have been the most stylish player out there, but he had enough talent for being the best of his era, sure, might have been the least talented of whichever group you pick if you define a talent as a particular set of skills, then again, pick another set of skills necesarry for being a number one and he might be on the very top
You are funny, Lendl was 19x in grand slam finals and you speak about lack of talent?!:-)... Anyway, what do you mean by talent? Talent for tennis strokes? But tennis is also about psychic, mental power, motion on a court, hard work and many many more things for which you need kind of talent as well, don´t you?
Leconte was a small, pudgy, anti-atheletic guy who, by the power of his mental talent managed to fuk the minds of the top players. He looks like nothing on the court. But the man had tennis smarts like you can't imagine.
pretty much everything you've said is wrong. he was 6'1", lacked mental discipline as a player, but was utterly entertaining on court because of his great physical gifts and his decision to chose panache over discretion in his shotmaking.
i've highschool players with more tennis smarts than leconte.
Did not know he was so tall. Saw him play in the flesh and man he looked like a small guy with a belly! I agree that today the kids are great. But I think you put the finger on it when you spoke of Leconte's panache. The man did not give a shit. He played points for their own sake, and not for the winning. Which makes him in my view an awesome frikken player.
that's it in the proverbial nutshell: leconte did not give a shit. that's why he has zero grand slams, when a man of his god given ability should have at least 3 or 4.
Yikes. I just replied to Fanfardon above who thought Lendl was the only player who qualified as a "magician". I should have read this first, he doesn't know anything about tennis! lol. Leconte's mental ability was universally considered his weakness. Physically hew as untouchable as people like Mcenroe and Tiriac(among others, have acknowledged). But looking at Fanfardon's profile, I think he's just trying to be funny! A parody. I doubt he really believes this!
Lendle should have mixed it up better at Wimbledon. He didn't need to serv n volley every point. Agassi,Federer and Nadal had pretty damn good success and they certainly didn't serve and volley and Lendle's groundstrokes and moevemet are as good or better than all of theirs.
It is a stunning contrast between the two. Lendl, the least talented multiple grand slam champion ever to play and the most mechanical/stiffest. Leconte, one of the most talented, flashiest players ever(quite possibly THE most), but not a single slam for him.
Least Talented? Are you kidding me? He's one of the greatest Tennis players. He went up against alot of Talent, from Bjorn Borg to Pete Sampras, and won against alot.
OK, then we disagree. 8 Grand Slams, and an almost Superior Won and Lost Record against almost anyone. But if you don't agree, then that's your view. I think he's one of the greatest of all time. But to each his or her own.
You didn't answer the question. Which greats do you think he was more talented than? Everyone agrees Lendl was a "great" as measured by grand slams. That is a straw man argument. You disagreed with my statement that Lendl was the "least talented multiple grand slam champion", but you still haven't told us who you think was less talented.
I don't necessarily think anyone is less talented than anyone else. But To disrespect Ivan Lendl and saying he is not talented is ridiculous. Calling a player who wins 8 Grand Slams is a very good player. He was a incredibly talented player which is what is importnat.
"Least Talented? Are you kidding me?" as your response to me.
YOU ALSO SHOULDN'T ACCUSE ME OF SAYING:
"But To disrespect Ivan Lendl and saying he is not talented is ridiculous."
WHICH I NEVER SAID. You either need to WORK ON YOUR READING COMPREHENSION or stop making straw man arguments and lying about what others say. You're a very dishonest person.
Well, the only person I have ever seen whom I would qualify as a magician is Lendl. I saw him live at the Canadian open in the semis against Mac. His ball control was mesmerizing, and he moved faster than a sprinter. Todaze lads have lotsa firepower but they don't have the sort of magic Lendl had (to be fair Mac was pretty awesome, though I was not impressed with Conners when I saw him play nor not so much with Borgie ayzer.
WOW. Well your opinion is certainly not one shared by too many experts. Lendl had great ball control but few have described him as a "magician", which usually is reserved for players with great touch, something Lendl was definitely not known for.
It's eve more interesting that you'd be so impressed with his movement. While Lendl was rangy and quite fast in one direction, quickness and agility are what's really important in tennis and that was considered a huge Lendl weakness. He was heavy footed, and in retirement he, himself, has now admitted that it was a problem. He worked extra hard to compensate but of course, quickness of feet, is largely a genetic trait and one can only maximize one's potential.
you simply have no idea what u are saying whatsoever. NONE of ur comments make any logical sense. he WON many, many championships. in order to do that, one has to be good, as a matter of fact he has to be quicker, stronger and faster than others. he has been #1 for many many weeks and years, although maybe not in a row. what the fuck are u even talking about you moron?? he has achievements few dare to rival in the entire tennis world.
All you can offer are opinions. I saw him in the flesh, moving as fast as a cat. Mac pulled him so far out of the court I thought Lendl would end up in the stands, but he would rocket the ball back. You have to see this sort of thing to believe it and especially to UNDERSTAND it. Sure Mac has touch, but Lendl had amazing "ball sense" which is why I call him a magician. You can rant all you want, but I was holding my mud long before you were born and I was there.
you butted in on a conversation and spoke out of turn about something which wasnt even discussed. no one was comparing Lendl to other Grand SLam winners. some fuck, like u, said that Lendl was poor talent in general. that is what i attacked bcs its untrue.
Correct. I can offer opinions, as can the many experts out there. That is all you can offer as well. Again, your opinion actually differs with LENDL'S opinion of himself, but you are entitled to it. Perhaps Lendl and the rest of us were wrong! I agree, Lendl had great ball control in his powerful groundstrokes. As for needing to "see" these type of things to believe them, I've hit with several world class players including Jim Courier, so you might want to rethink your boasts.
You datacipher, if you had hit with Jim, then you would know that what I am saying is spot on. Just ask him. As for opinions, well, they are like assholes. Everybody has one.
If I see him again, I will, but again, opinions on Lendl are well known. He's certainly not interested in what a person on youtube, who once saw Lendl play, claims. Interestingly, Courier was similar in strengths and weaknesses and he himself also admitted that he was one of the least talented slam champions though he counted his mental toughness as talent...and in this he is right.
Anyways, I hit with Courier for 3 days, I don't have an ongoing relationship with him. Great guy though.
Well u r lucky. The only tour pro I ever hit with was an old Auzzie dog called Nichols from the 60's circuit. Mind you, he flayed me at his age 60 to my 30, and I played briefly on the Challenger circuit, though with no great success.
That doesn't surprise me. Pros retain their ability to hit the ball, pretty well, only their movement suffers a lot. When did you play the challengers and where? I might know some people you knew.
Ivan was the first champion to take advantage of scientific advances in training routines. He lifted weights, did aerobics and cross- training. At his prime, no other tennis player was in better shape.
He may not have been the fastest, but his off court work and his anticipation, made it seem like there was no ball he could not reach.
At 6'2" 175lbs, he was the prototype of the modern tennis player, he was not going to pushed around.
Ivan was the first champion to use and master the inside out forehand from the ad-side of the court, crushing weak replies for winners.
His forehand game was setup by his serve, during his domination, no one had a bigger, more consistent and accurate serve than Ivan Lendl. He used his powerful serve to dictate right from the beginning, and his forehand to close the point out.
rockrose, I think alot of what you say about Ivan is correct, especially on the forehand issue, which I have not seen anyone able to replicate. But I differ on the serve. Man, Ivan had a terrible toss. So high, and you could read where he was going to send it. That is how Becker destroyed him at the Wimbledon finals.
true, maybe that point was overstated by me. he did have a rather high toss which messed him up a good deal of time. when it was in - it was in and it was real good. but when it was off - it was really off :)
Next time you see players changing racquets during ball changes, next time you see racquets being delivered in plastic bags, next time you hear of players having their own personal stringers, next time you hear how precise each racquet is customized, think of Ivan Lendl, he started the whole thing, which at the time fed the fuel of him being called a machine, but instead he was well on his way to being the first true professional tennis player the world had ever seen.
Sorry rockrose27 but Lendl was not the first to be finnicky about his racquets. Conners was obsessive about leadtaping his racquets, which Ilie showed him how to do. And Borg had his coach string the racquets at 80lbs. and even restringing them during matches.
I played at the Binghamton Challenger in '94 and was wiped out. After that I tucked tail and just stayed playing club matches. I was 36 at the time and was just proud I could make it. Since you seem to know something, tell me if you know anyone who uses the continental grip on their forehand. I have always used it, hitting very flat, but could never get any consistency on my approach shots, which always lacked top. Is anyone using this forehand now or has it passed into history?
Oh, 94! More recent than I thought, but if you only played one, then a couple acquaintances from that era probably don't know you. Hit with Robbie Weiss once, he was probably on the circuit around that time. As for the continental....hm....boy, have to give that a bit of thought. Edberg, Mcenroe, Curren.....those are the last TOP guys that spring to mind with continental forehands. Bollettierri once said that Flipper had a continental grip when he coached him, from what I've seen it wasn't a...
OK datacipher, well thanx. Don't know those names. But I was in a tournament in the early 80's before it was called Challenger, and played against a minor TV idol called Van Patten. Don't know if it was Vince or what. Beat me of course. He had a huge frikken Prince graphite and a whole bag of them. I was hitting with that tiny Borg racquet and I didn't even have real gut.
Interesting. If it was Vince, he was actually a very good player, I remember he was "rookie of the year" or something like that at some point. Was thought to have a better future on the tour than it turned out to be, but in any case, he could play.
ps. Flipper = philippoussis....I can't help feeling I am forgetting somebody, another recent player who might have been continental, but I can't remember right now. One thing that shocks people is that Agassi used a continental grip with his left
datacipher, pls go away. seems like you are speaking to yourself mostly here. your posts seem to answer to no one. who are you talking to? pls go away. u pollute.
data: those continental players you cite were all pretty classy. I always wished I could lose my continental grip but I could never make the Western or even the Eastern work for me. On the backhand it is very cool and that is my best shot, but my forehand always sucked.
Yes, they were. Except perhaps Flipper, who was a brute, but hit the ball harder(in his youth) than any player in history in my opinion. Made Fernando Gonzalez look conservative! lol.
The continental is certainly out of style, but even today, at almost 50, Mac has competed well against younger players, including some current tour players.
I don't think it's ideal, by any means, for a forehand. But it's viable! I miss the variation in technique of the past. The style today is homogenized.
If you want to talk about varied styles then I would point you to the '92 Davis Cup match in Vancouver between Daniel Nestor and Stefan Edberg. Nestor beat him in what I think was one of the most stylish matches ever.
Funny, you would mention that match. I was there! I have also hit with Nestor (both occasions it was actually mainly a junior I coached hitting with him. Daniel was actually immensely talented. Unfortunately, that match was one of the rare times he showed it in singles. Immense serve, one of the best second serves, great touch, great volleys. His biggest problem was nerves(in singles) and when the nerves hit, his footwork and grounstrokes disappeared. That was an exciting match though. Electric.
Yeah, Nestor never could get consistent in singles. Great doubles carreer tho. So you were at the Vancouver Country Club? I was living close by then. I heard at the time that membership cost $40,000. In any case u r lucky to have hit with these guys. Personally, I think Nestor could have wiped most of the competition off the map. Too bad he needed the comfort of doubles to show his stuff.
I didn't live there, only came for the matches but it wasn't at a country club...or at least I didn't thnk it was part of a club, it was a makeshift court in a little arena. My memory is a bit fuzzy though, I don't know Vancouver that well. In any case, when I got to be on court with Nestor it was the mid 90's and it was surprising. Everyone looks good in practice, but he could look so talented and unbeatable it was astonishing. I'm not an expert on him, but I think he often....
just got a bit tight in singles. Which of course is all it takes. He would try to chip and slice shots off his FOREHAND when he lost confidence! Probably didn't help that as his career developed as a doubles specialist, when you do play singles, the guys are extra determined not to lose to you, they get the edge in confidence. Then, you realize you'll make as much or more as a top doubles guys than you ever would as a shakey singles player..but on the right day, he could give ANYBODY a match.
true continental but it was at times, quite far around, probably a bit farther than an Eastern. Of course, Edberg and Mac didn't use "pure" continental either, but somewhere between eastern and continental for their forehands.
With tennis very homogenized now, and a particular model of play being universally taught (I think incorrectly), much more unlikely you'll see a continental player come up but I don't think it's impossible at all. You can play world class tennis with a continental.
No, he was not the most talented, but through hard work, he achieved a thousand times more than other gifted mortals. His tennis achievements when put together in a package has not been equaled by any other tennis player.
He was not appreciated, he did not get his full merit, he did not get the love and respect that he deserved.
He could not play on grass they said, but he managed to win 89 matches on that surface, including 3 grand slam finals and two championships in consecutive years (89,90) at the Queen's Club event before Wimbledon. In 1990 en route to his victory there he beat John McEnroe and Boris Becker in the semis and finals respectively.
but players who never won a single grand slam tournament, of the remaining 5, three of them were against Andre Agassi. How many slams would Ivan have won if he had faced players of that caliber? Of the 19 Grand Slam finals, Ivan faced, players who were multiple slam winners and former number ones, 15 times.
Ivan reached 19 grand slam signals finals, more than any other male player in the open era, he won 8 of them, but a closer look will reveal the fact that he lost 10 of those finals to 5 of the greatest champions in the open era, Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Willander and Becker. Pete Sampras, the greatest tennis player the game has seen so far, has a total of 12 grand slams, 7 of them were against players who not only were never number one,
Now here rockrose, you are totally spot on. Lendl did not get the attention he deserved even though he was probably the most dominant athlete of his era. More so than Gretzky or Jordan. He was a stoney faced foreigner that Americans had trouble warming up to. So effing what right? The man was outfrikenstanding to watch. And his dissection of Mac in the '84 French was the best match ever. I saw Mac at CDG airport the next day and he looked like he had been hit by a truck.
Yeah, he was in a special line, VIP I suppose and his brother Patrick was there with him. Mac was giving somebody shit, at usual (though it is now 25 years ago and I don't remember the details). He had a HUGE entourage.
Just a little correction, Sampras won 14 slams. And yeah, against middling talents. The 90's were a gawdawful time for tennis.
The eventual score does not resemble someone who ran out of gas, it is more like a player who's tactics and nerve caught up with him and tried as hard as he could to weather the storm, but could not fight the fury. Score 3-6,2-6,6-4,7-5,7-5 Lendl
I totally agree, bcs here's another example of the establishment, history and his opponent not giving Lendl any respect, if you look at any tennis encyclopedia or listen to any McEnroe broadcast, you will hear how "he got tired in 1984 and lost the French", but in reality, Lendl won that match on pure guts, determination, skill and power.
If you read Mac autobiography (which is an amazing display of unchained ego) he writes that the French loss was his most crushing defeat and that to this day he has not been able to get over it. Of course he will twadle on about getting tired, but watching that match from the Orly Hilton in June of '84 I knew this was something remarkable I would never see again. Lendl sucked it up, and deballed Mac in front of the world.
ROckrose, I also remember that after Lendl won I called up a friend in Paris and we went to the Parc des Princes and picked up two hookers. Man, that was a great time. They paraded topless in the Parc in front of the CRS.
that resembles my last trip to Moscow Fanfardon, hahahahaha. very much so. (except the paradiing part probably) been to paris recently, but no hookers, just work and boring french ppl.
Well rickrose, in Moscow if you have money you can fuk the Tzar. Mind you, don't marry some Russian chik. I did. And man, the poontang ain't worth the expense. They come with their mothers attached. By the way, I worked some in France in the 90's and never managed to bag a French chick. It was always an American chick or a Spanish chick visiting France. Could never figure out how to saddle a frog.
Hahahahaha. you make me laugh man. funny stuff. I am actually from Russia originally, well Ukraine, but all the same shit. at least up to 89' it was anyway!
what you say about russian and $ and women is true my friend. seems you have been to moscow, yes?
Never been to Moscow. Mine is an ethnic Russian from Almaty. Charoshaya devochka with balshi groodyi. I went to work in Almaty and also Bishkek and partied around lake Issykul. I dorked some very nice yellow tail and a spectacular Uighur. But I found the society there very superficial. Everyone dressed to the nines and worried only about high end consumer goods. Well, I ended up with a very high end consumer good and have been paying ever since. I guess you don't need my warnings.
Kazakhstan? holy shit wow! how in the world did u get up there, ahahaha. i just got back from visiting a client in Kyrgyzstan, Bishkek. God i hate traveling to those shit holes. food is a killer and women are sub par. the whores i am talking about. Groodi eto xorosho. ya tozhe lyblyu bol'shie grydi!! lol
Fanfardon, what did u do in Bishkek. when was this? just curious. i am Ukranian but lived in US since 89'. i work in finance, so i travel a lot. but some of my friends in business, as well as a good paying client is in Bishkek. I visited lake Issyk Kyl in 2007 for the huge corporate party that was thrown there. drove thru the fucking mountains from bishkek for hours to get to the gorgeous place.
Well Rockrose, I was relaxing in Prague for a few months where I have a small property and a Kazakh who owned a bar I frequented invited me to go to Bishkek and Issikyl in search of poontang. And back then, in 2000, the Russian chix were smokin' and knee deep. Today they are all gone. I don't work in finance but I took a class from Fama, and hit the ball with him too at the U of C back in the 80's. Also studied with some derivatives jocks and Andrei Schleiffer, who was a gent.
i c. interesting indeed. so back in 2000 then. nvrmnd i guess. i was going 2 ask if u have heard of this prominent bank there now, AUB, (asia universal bank). its part russian, part american private creation & i'm close 2 the ppl that started it. in fact work there with them still. they're in bed w/entire presidents cabinet there so its a well connected, fun party. known in Bishkek and IsssyKyl. I'm actually a pro musician. finished Berklee in 2000. taking a long pause from music currently.
Good for you old boy! Eugene Fama is a big proponent of the CAPM and the top dog in the Finance dept. at University of Chicago. Personally I never thought much of him. Was way more blown away by Fischer Black. I will keep my eye out for this bank coz I will have to sell an apartment on Chuy Prospekt soon. The only bank I know there is the Kurulush Bank, which went down in around 2000 stealing most of my wife's money. Man, u must have steel balz to be working with those hoodlumz there.
oh yes. rings a bell now. didnt catch it right away. sure.
well i am not working with the kyrgz really. ppl behind the bank are russians and some americans(like myself, if i can be so bold to call myself that. well its been 20 years since i moved here , so fuck it:). its basically a convenient pocket bank which is run by smart ppl there now. bought out all other banks in the area and became o powerhouse. government is paid to look the other way - works beautifully for them
Yeah, I guess they have it all figured out. But where do people save their money? Does Deutsche Bank have something down there? My problem is how to sell a property and make sure I don't get robbed during the transaction, and then to get the money the hell out of there.
At least eight foreign banks operate in the Kyrgyz Republic: Demir Bank (Turkey), Bank of Asia (South Korea), National Bank of Pakistan, ATF Bank Kyrgyzstan (91.8% controlled by the Bank of Austria Creditanstalt BA-CA), Kazcommerce Bank (Kazakhstan), Halyk Bank (Kazakhstan), the Kyrgyz Investment and Credit Bank (owned mostly by international public and private development institutions) and FinanceCreditBank (Kazakhstan).
Thanx for the info rockrose. From what I hear Bakiyev is sitting on a timebomb. Soviet era infrastructure is crumbling (they turn off all hot water for a month in the summer and have frequent power outages in the winter), and the clans from Osh are vying to cut up whatever small part of national wealth remains. Their only embassy in the Western hemisphere is in New York I think, and is barely functioning. Soon they will revert to the pastoral society they were 100 years ago. R u Russian or Ukran
Ukranian, Odessa. but i moved to US in 89, so back then it was still just plain old Russia or USSR though not for long. (although Ukraine was always trying to set itself apart even in those days). but i spend much time in Moscow - work. i keep a small apartment there in the center. convenient. but expensive. god damn it
Is it one of those apartments like in Ironia Sudby? One of my favorite films by the way. My wife's grandfather came from Odessa. A very interesting town apparently. 2000 years old or so right? I would sooner go there than to Moscow.
i havent seen that film in years, lol. no, its pretty modern, across from old arbat street, center. odessa is gorgeous. women are off the fucking hook. i swear. hard to get but pretty to marvel at. city by the sea, pretty. history, food, architecture, all there
Man, if you are across from Arbat you are in the frikken centre of town and not doing too bad! You have a view there straight to the Kreml! Maladec ti kakoi! Russia has such an amazing genetic mix. I bet those babes down in Odessa are dark and steaming. But in the end as you might have noticed, the easiest chix to bang in the world are Americans. They will blow you like they are shaking hands.
Kygyz Rep is so corrupt it turnz my head. I started getting bribe requests at the airport! It blew me away to see all that Soviet infrastructure basically rotting away. And people boiling tea from makeshift fires they set in gutters, right in front of the White House. Their last prez was intellectually brilliant (Akaev) but so beholden to his clan that he was paralyzed. Wrote a very good book on the need for free markets and transparency. What a larf.
yea, well thats the old soviet block for u. still there, still the same. most of those CIS republics are still backwards as fuck. sad. moscow is glowing, but corrupt as shit. it cannot get more corrupt than moscow. i say moscow bcs that's russia primarily, the rest of the country doesn't matter 1 bit. what do u think of Bakiyev now?
GEEZ, FINALLY, 35 neurotic posts later, you finally acknowledge that I was correct. Again, you haven't mentioned ONE multiple slam champion you think was less talented. Unbelievable. Reading comprehension people...reading...comprehension...
Safin: first, he has TWO slams, not multiple, if you know him, you should know this. Second, FEW people would consider Safin less talented than Lendl, in fact, most would consider that a ridiculous assertion
Kafelnikov: Again, he didn't have "multiple" slams, only TWO. Second, "pissing away" your career to booze is not a lack of talent. Third, he didn't do that. He was one of the hardest workers on the tour,you're thinking of Safin (you know him right?) lol.
Roddick: has ONE slam. ONE. Not "multiple". Reading comprehension.
Wilander: Wilander was considerably quicker than Lendl and had better balance, he was much smoother. On the other hand, he had less power, though he was much more strategically versatile which allowed him to unseat Lendl from #1. Closer call. I'd call it even but I'm willing TO GIVE You Wilander!
Bruguera: again, he has TWO slams. Reading comprehension. "clumsy" is a ridiculous way to describe a back to back FO player.
i strongly disagree with u that there is just ONE that is less talented out there than Lendl. but even though, this is ALL you have asked me to do. u said to name 1. i DID!!! so u admitted it, means u lost and means i was right. can u pleaseeeeee shut the fuck up now and take defeat like a real man. or are u a chicken shit canadian boy?
Yikes...kids today. Oh...sorry...i mean 32 yr olds today. lol.
Again, I said "he was among the least talented". Naming one player who is arguably less talented does not invalidate my statement. It verifies it.
Furthermore, I did not ask you to name "one", I asked you to name the "playerS" who you thought were less talented. Which is what you tried to do. I only pointed out that until that point, you hadn't even named "one". Again, reading comprehension, kiddo..
go look up data on Bruguera. they all claim he had an ugly, lucky game. no one knows why he got those 2, but he did. one of those freakish accidents i guess. he was ugly to watch
god u are a retard. where in teh world did u come from or what rock have crawled out of. yes i know both of them. indirectly. iam russian and have spoken to them off court and drank with them in russia in russian. i know mych about them. pls shut the fuck up. pls, for the live of god. go die somewhere quietly.
Kafelnikov did work hard and then he DID drink and piss his career away. he never took himself seriously and never fully developed what little talent he had. that was a failure
Safin is an injured retard that had some form of talent, but his anger management problems and other psychological battles off court seem to take the best of him. when he is on - boy he is really on. but the rest of the time he looks like a loosing, crying child. so pls again, shut the hell up. u know very little. btw Kafelnikov has 4 more doubles grand slam titles. i counted those. surely they stand for something. good job on wikipedia lookups
then came Ivan, he brought massive power from the baseline to the game. No longer where baseliners defensive players, he attacked & took control of the outcome of the point, instead of waiting for an error.
Ivan is considered a father of modern tennis. why? --- Prior 2 the rise & domination of Lendl, pro tennis was ruled by 2 styles, players could either be classified as Borgians (High loopy, heavy topspin, from the baseline, very defensive, waiting for the opponent to make a mistake) McEnroeseque (serve and volleyers with weak ground strokes, who rushed the net at every opportunity),
Ivan was the first champion to take advantage of scientific advances in training routines. He lifted weights, did aerobics and cross- training. At his prime, no other tennis player was in better shape.
He may not have been the fastest, but his off court work and his anticipation, made it seem like there was no ball he could not reach.
At 6'2" 175lbs, he was the prototype of the modern tennis player, he was not going to pushed around.
thank you Sir, whoever you are. iam 32 and i was not there unfortunately. i wish i was bcs 80's was the best era in tennis, period. no one can argue. today's girly tennis (with exception of roger mostly)is crappy and boring. will never be like b4. and few can play and represent tennis lie Lendl did back in teh day. i watched his every move as a kid, and although never seen him live as you have - i have admired this man greatly and still do!
The 3rd email Rockrose has sent me in the past 10 min. He's actually 15, and clearly very troubled.
"fucking canadian fag. come here to NY so i can make u eat ur fucking shoes fucking canadian fag. come here to NY so i can make u eat ur fucking shoes
u r such a fool. posted what i wrote to u so u can get some help and praise from others on how smart u are in front of some 15 year old kid? seeking compassion bcs u probably have little friends or ppl that care about u. lonely fool"
my god. u wont stop. u were never loved as a kid, were u? writing bullshit on here so ppl get behind u and believe u? u are just seeking attention, bcs u seem to be an attention whore. u are a fool and feel compelled to justify urself here as if someone actually cares. goes to say something abiut u probably, doesnt it. insecure, stupid, probably depressed, friendless and lonely
Well rockrose, I agree with you. I stopped going to tournaments in the late 80's. The personalities disappeared and all you had were manufactured robots grinding away. Sorry to Sampras fans, but he was the most boring exemplar of this breed. Rog is of course brilliant though these days I can't afford the $100 plus pricetags to go see him. That Spaniard he plays is a robotic grinder. Tell you what, Jose Higueras was also a joy to watch with his bizarre barogue forehand.
On the contrary, many experts DO share that he was an incredible player.he made it into International Hall of Fame!! have all players done that? Was ranked No. 1 in the world for 270 weeks, including 157 straight from Sept.85' thru Sept.88'. Captured 8 career singles titles in Grand Slam events and reached an astounding 19 Slam singles finals.During the 1980's, was one of the game's most dominant players. In 82, he won 15 of 23 singles tournaments entered,a record of 107-9.
1985 through 1987, Lendl's match winning percentage was greater than 90%. This record was equaled by Roger Federer in 2006. Ivan, however, remains the only male with at least 90% match wins in four different years. Lendl Won 222 Grand Slam singles matches (third after Connors and Agassi).Shares with Sampras the record for most Masters singles titles (5).
Dishonest? I try not to be, I'm not perfect. but if you doubt how Great Ivan Lendl was, just go to Wikipedia. See all his records and statistics. Such incredible statistics are not considered "least talented". He's near the top of all time and doesn't need to be called "the least talented" of grand slam champions. His record speaks for itself. Peace. I respect your views, but I don't necessarily agree with what you say.
Ah, well I don't need to look up his records on Wiki. LOL. I know them all from memory. You are not dishonest if you think his statistics/accomplishments prove him to not be among the "least talented multiple grandslam champions". Obviously there is some kind of disconnect going on in your mind. THE WHOLE point of the OP was the contrast between a far less talented player WHO ACCOMPLISHED far more and a player of extreme talent who accomplished nothing in terms of a legacy of greatness.
Again, if you think he is not among the "least talented multiple grand slam champions", you have yet to name the champions you think are less talented.
Datacipher, I think you should reread the statistics on Wikipedia. He's one of the greatest of all time. And no, no disconnect. I think you have some disconnect from the facts. He is one of the greatest of all time and not one of the least talented of Multiple Grand Slam Winners. But if you don't think so, oK, I disagree with you, and you of my views.
to say that the father of modern tennis and a multiple grandslam winner, a fucking IDOL - is a least talent player is just a reflection on what type of ignorant, dumb fuck you probably are. go back to softball or something, we dont need ur ass in tennis
What we don't need is childish insults and juevenile rhetoric. If you disagree, simply state your premise. Tell us which multiple grand champions you think are less talented than Lendl. Unless you do that, your post cannot be taken seriously and is simply: embarassing.
datacipher - do u wanna go fuk urself? r u a cop here making sure things are up and up? who died and made u the judge here. no one wants to here your self righteous crap, shut the fuk up!
Ah, so you don't actually know of any players and are just trolling for attention? Right. Silly, silly boy. lol. I shouldn't laugh, it's sad that there are so many kids out there who act out like this!
yes i do. i am sorry i am not a loser like u and have other shit to do than sit here and type away all day long. get a life. i will post facts here soon. u didnt even give me a chance u dumb fuck. who are u calling a kid idiot?? i am 32 years old. fucking jerk
If you're really 32, then I am sorry. That's really sad. You must have a lot of problems, either developmental or ps0chological. Good luck to you. But please don't send private emails like:
"dick
u dumb dick. i should have figured. u are canadian. that explains it all"
I understand you are angry and wish to lash out, but it doesn't hurt me, it is just sad.
even though he quit over a decade ago - he is a 6th All-time leader in earnings!! it takes sheer talent to get to that level. something you - DATACIPHER - obviously know very little about.Tennis magazine named him as one of the ten greatest tennis players since 66', calling him "game's greatest overachiever" & emphasizing his importance in the game's history. Reached at least 1 Grand Slam final for 11 consecutive years, an all-time record since tied by Pete Sampras.
This is sad. You've now cut and paste various facts you've googled. But none contradict my premise (one that most experts would agree with) that he was "one of the least talented multiple slam champions". THAT was the statement you disagreed with. Please name the champions you think are less talented.
You don't seem to understand that nobody said he was no "good" or that he had no "accomplishments". Your intellectual capacity seems quite questionable.
yes i pasted facts, bcs an ignorant fool like u should probably go to wikipedia once more to get familiar with facts b4 u open that foolish mouth. my mental capacity is at question? first u are a self proclaimed "expert", now u are a shrink? what da fuck is wrong with you. who do u think u are, u little terd?
henri really should've won this tournament at least once. his game is so complete (for grass) and nobody posessed a better backhand volley. what a joy to watch.
Maybe Lendl had no great talent for volley (but in 1990 he was way better than most of today guys on the net). BUt he had enormous talent for ground stokes.
Pitonto 2 years ago 2
...evolve your game, he might not have been the most stylish player out there, but he had enough talent for being the best of his era, sure, might have been the least talented of whichever group you pick if you define a talent as a particular set of skills, then again, pick another set of skills necesarry for being a number one and he might be on the very top
ufon68 2 years ago
You are funny, Lendl was 19x in grand slam finals and you speak about lack of talent?!:-)... Anyway, what do you mean by talent? Talent for tennis strokes? But tennis is also about psychic, mental power, motion on a court, hard work and many many more things for which you need kind of talent as well, don´t you?
myhistoryofmusic 2 years ago 2
Leconte was a small, pudgy, anti-atheletic guy who, by the power of his mental talent managed to fuk the minds of the top players. He looks like nothing on the court. But the man had tennis smarts like you can't imagine.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
pretty much everything you've said is wrong. he was 6'1", lacked mental discipline as a player, but was utterly entertaining on court because of his great physical gifts and his decision to chose panache over discretion in his shotmaking.
i've highschool players with more tennis smarts than leconte.
teflonmagnet 3 years ago
leconte had the most incredibly strong wrists in tennis. he merely needed flick his racket and he could hit a winner from anywhere on court.
teflonmagnet 3 years ago
Did not know he was so tall. Saw him play in the flesh and man he looked like a small guy with a belly! I agree that today the kids are great. But I think you put the finger on it when you spoke of Leconte's panache. The man did not give a shit. He played points for their own sake, and not for the winning. Which makes him in my view an awesome frikken player.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
that's it in the proverbial nutshell: leconte did not give a shit. that's why he has zero grand slams, when a man of his god given ability should have at least 3 or 4.
teflonmagnet 3 years ago
Yikes. I just replied to Fanfardon above who thought Lendl was the only player who qualified as a "magician". I should have read this first, he doesn't know anything about tennis! lol. Leconte's mental ability was universally considered his weakness. Physically hew as untouchable as people like Mcenroe and Tiriac(among others, have acknowledged). But looking at Fanfardon's profile, I think he's just trying to be funny! A parody. I doubt he really believes this!
datacipher 3 years ago
Lendle should have mixed it up better at Wimbledon. He didn't need to serv n volley every point. Agassi,Federer and Nadal had pretty damn good success and they certainly didn't serve and volley and Lendle's groundstrokes and moevemet are as good or better than all of theirs.
tommie66tx 3 years ago
different rackets, different grass
bobomber 3 years ago
It is a stunning contrast between the two. Lendl, the least talented multiple grand slam champion ever to play and the most mechanical/stiffest. Leconte, one of the most talented, flashiest players ever(quite possibly THE most), but not a single slam for him.
datacipher 3 years ago
Least Talented? Are you kidding me? He's one of the greatest Tennis players. He went up against alot of Talent, from Bjorn Borg to Pete Sampras, and won against alot.
jkygogo 3 years ago
No. I am not kidding. Do you feel he was more talented than Borg or Sampras? Who do you think he was more talented than?
datacipher 3 years ago
OK, then we disagree. 8 Grand Slams, and an almost Superior Won and Lost Record against almost anyone. But if you don't agree, then that's your view. I think he's one of the greatest of all time. But to each his or her own.
jkygogo 3 years ago
You didn't answer the question. Which greats do you think he was more talented than? Everyone agrees Lendl was a "great" as measured by grand slams. That is a straw man argument. You disagreed with my statement that Lendl was the "least talented multiple grand slam champion", but you still haven't told us who you think was less talented.
datacipher 3 years ago
I don't necessarily think anyone is less talented than anyone else. But To disrespect Ivan Lendl and saying he is not talented is ridiculous. Calling a player who wins 8 Grand Slams is a very good player. He was a incredibly talented player which is what is importnat.
jkygogo 3 years ago
THEN YOU SHOULDN'T WRITE:
"Least Talented? Are you kidding me?" as your response to me.
YOU ALSO SHOULDN'T ACCUSE ME OF SAYING:
"But To disrespect Ivan Lendl and saying he is not talented is ridiculous."
WHICH I NEVER SAID. You either need to WORK ON YOUR READING COMPREHENSION or stop making straw man arguments and lying about what others say. You're a very dishonest person.
datacipher 3 years ago
Well, the only person I have ever seen whom I would qualify as a magician is Lendl. I saw him live at the Canadian open in the semis against Mac. His ball control was mesmerizing, and he moved faster than a sprinter. Todaze lads have lotsa firepower but they don't have the sort of magic Lendl had (to be fair Mac was pretty awesome, though I was not impressed with Conners when I saw him play nor not so much with Borgie ayzer.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
WOW. Well your opinion is certainly not one shared by too many experts. Lendl had great ball control but few have described him as a "magician", which usually is reserved for players with great touch, something Lendl was definitely not known for.
datacipher 3 years ago
It's eve more interesting that you'd be so impressed with his movement. While Lendl was rangy and quite fast in one direction, quickness and agility are what's really important in tennis and that was considered a huge Lendl weakness. He was heavy footed, and in retirement he, himself, has now admitted that it was a problem. He worked extra hard to compensate but of course, quickness of feet, is largely a genetic trait and one can only maximize one's potential.
datacipher 3 years ago
you simply have no idea what u are saying whatsoever. NONE of ur comments make any logical sense. he WON many, many championships. in order to do that, one has to be good, as a matter of fact he has to be quicker, stronger and faster than others. he has been #1 for many many weeks and years, although maybe not in a row. what the fuck are u even talking about you moron?? he has achievements few dare to rival in the entire tennis world.
rockrose27 3 years ago
All you can offer are opinions. I saw him in the flesh, moving as fast as a cat. Mac pulled him so far out of the court I thought Lendl would end up in the stands, but he would rocket the ball back. You have to see this sort of thing to believe it and especially to UNDERSTAND it. Sure Mac has touch, but Lendl had amazing "ball sense" which is why I call him a magician. You can rant all you want, but I was holding my mud long before you were born and I was there.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
you butted in on a conversation and spoke out of turn about something which wasnt even discussed. no one was comparing Lendl to other Grand SLam winners. some fuck, like u, said that Lendl was poor talent in general. that is what i attacked bcs its untrue.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Correct. I can offer opinions, as can the many experts out there. That is all you can offer as well. Again, your opinion actually differs with LENDL'S opinion of himself, but you are entitled to it. Perhaps Lendl and the rest of us were wrong! I agree, Lendl had great ball control in his powerful groundstrokes. As for needing to "see" these type of things to believe them, I've hit with several world class players including Jim Courier, so you might want to rethink your boasts.
datacipher 3 years ago
You datacipher, if you had hit with Jim, then you would know that what I am saying is spot on. Just ask him. As for opinions, well, they are like assholes. Everybody has one.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
If I see him again, I will, but again, opinions on Lendl are well known. He's certainly not interested in what a person on youtube, who once saw Lendl play, claims. Interestingly, Courier was similar in strengths and weaknesses and he himself also admitted that he was one of the least talented slam champions though he counted his mental toughness as talent...and in this he is right.
Anyways, I hit with Courier for 3 days, I don't have an ongoing relationship with him. Great guy though.
datacipher 3 years ago
Well u r lucky. The only tour pro I ever hit with was an old Auzzie dog called Nichols from the 60's circuit. Mind you, he flayed me at his age 60 to my 30, and I played briefly on the Challenger circuit, though with no great success.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
That doesn't surprise me. Pros retain their ability to hit the ball, pretty well, only their movement suffers a lot. When did you play the challengers and where? I might know some people you knew.
datacipher 3 years ago
Ivan was the first champion to take advantage of scientific advances in training routines. He lifted weights, did aerobics and cross- training. At his prime, no other tennis player was in better shape.
He may not have been the fastest, but his off court work and his anticipation, made it seem like there was no ball he could not reach.
At 6'2" 175lbs, he was the prototype of the modern tennis player, he was not going to pushed around.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Ivan was the first champion to use and master the inside out forehand from the ad-side of the court, crushing weak replies for winners.
His forehand game was setup by his serve, during his domination, no one had a bigger, more consistent and accurate serve than Ivan Lendl. He used his powerful serve to dictate right from the beginning, and his forehand to close the point out.
rockrose27 3 years ago
rockrose, I think alot of what you say about Ivan is correct, especially on the forehand issue, which I have not seen anyone able to replicate. But I differ on the serve. Man, Ivan had a terrible toss. So high, and you could read where he was going to send it. That is how Becker destroyed him at the Wimbledon finals.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
true, maybe that point was overstated by me. he did have a rather high toss which messed him up a good deal of time. when it was in - it was in and it was real good. but when it was off - it was really off :)
rockrose27 3 years ago
Next time you see players changing racquets during ball changes, next time you see racquets being delivered in plastic bags, next time you hear of players having their own personal stringers, next time you hear how precise each racquet is customized, think of Ivan Lendl, he started the whole thing, which at the time fed the fuel of him being called a machine, but instead he was well on his way to being the first true professional tennis player the world had ever seen.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Sorry rockrose27 but Lendl was not the first to be finnicky about his racquets. Conners was obsessive about leadtaping his racquets, which Ilie showed him how to do. And Borg had his coach string the racquets at 80lbs. and even restringing them during matches.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
I played at the Binghamton Challenger in '94 and was wiped out. After that I tucked tail and just stayed playing club matches. I was 36 at the time and was just proud I could make it. Since you seem to know something, tell me if you know anyone who uses the continental grip on their forehand. I have always used it, hitting very flat, but could never get any consistency on my approach shots, which always lacked top. Is anyone using this forehand now or has it passed into history?
Fanfardon 3 years ago
Oh, 94! More recent than I thought, but if you only played one, then a couple acquaintances from that era probably don't know you. Hit with Robbie Weiss once, he was probably on the circuit around that time. As for the continental....hm....boy, have to give that a bit of thought. Edberg, Mcenroe, Curren.....those are the last TOP guys that spring to mind with continental forehands. Bollettierri once said that Flipper had a continental grip when he coached him, from what I've seen it wasn't a...
datacipher 3 years ago
OK datacipher, well thanx. Don't know those names. But I was in a tournament in the early 80's before it was called Challenger, and played against a minor TV idol called Van Patten. Don't know if it was Vince or what. Beat me of course. He had a huge frikken Prince graphite and a whole bag of them. I was hitting with that tiny Borg racquet and I didn't even have real gut.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
Interesting. If it was Vince, he was actually a very good player, I remember he was "rookie of the year" or something like that at some point. Was thought to have a better future on the tour than it turned out to be, but in any case, he could play.
ps. Flipper = philippoussis....I can't help feeling I am forgetting somebody, another recent player who might have been continental, but I can't remember right now. One thing that shocks people is that Agassi used a continental grip with his left
datacipher 3 years ago
datacipher, pls go away. seems like you are speaking to yourself mostly here. your posts seem to answer to no one. who are you talking to? pls go away. u pollute.
rockrose27 3 years ago
hand on the 2 handed backhand.
datacipher 3 years ago
data: those continental players you cite were all pretty classy. I always wished I could lose my continental grip but I could never make the Western or even the Eastern work for me. On the backhand it is very cool and that is my best shot, but my forehand always sucked.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
Yes, they were. Except perhaps Flipper, who was a brute, but hit the ball harder(in his youth) than any player in history in my opinion. Made Fernando Gonzalez look conservative! lol.
The continental is certainly out of style, but even today, at almost 50, Mac has competed well against younger players, including some current tour players.
I don't think it's ideal, by any means, for a forehand. But it's viable! I miss the variation in technique of the past. The style today is homogenized.
datacipher 3 years ago
If you want to talk about varied styles then I would point you to the '92 Davis Cup match in Vancouver between Daniel Nestor and Stefan Edberg. Nestor beat him in what I think was one of the most stylish matches ever.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
Funny, you would mention that match. I was there! I have also hit with Nestor (both occasions it was actually mainly a junior I coached hitting with him. Daniel was actually immensely talented. Unfortunately, that match was one of the rare times he showed it in singles. Immense serve, one of the best second serves, great touch, great volleys. His biggest problem was nerves(in singles) and when the nerves hit, his footwork and grounstrokes disappeared. That was an exciting match though. Electric.
datacipher 3 years ago
Yeah, Nestor never could get consistent in singles. Great doubles carreer tho. So you were at the Vancouver Country Club? I was living close by then. I heard at the time that membership cost $40,000. In any case u r lucky to have hit with these guys. Personally, I think Nestor could have wiped most of the competition off the map. Too bad he needed the comfort of doubles to show his stuff.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
I didn't live there, only came for the matches but it wasn't at a country club...or at least I didn't thnk it was part of a club, it was a makeshift court in a little arena. My memory is a bit fuzzy though, I don't know Vancouver that well. In any case, when I got to be on court with Nestor it was the mid 90's and it was surprising. Everyone looks good in practice, but he could look so talented and unbeatable it was astonishing. I'm not an expert on him, but I think he often....
datacipher 3 years ago
just got a bit tight in singles. Which of course is all it takes. He would try to chip and slice shots off his FOREHAND when he lost confidence! Probably didn't help that as his career developed as a doubles specialist, when you do play singles, the guys are extra determined not to lose to you, they get the edge in confidence. Then, you realize you'll make as much or more as a top doubles guys than you ever would as a shakey singles player..but on the right day, he could give ANYBODY a match.
datacipher 3 years ago
true continental but it was at times, quite far around, probably a bit farther than an Eastern. Of course, Edberg and Mac didn't use "pure" continental either, but somewhere between eastern and continental for their forehands.
With tennis very homogenized now, and a particular model of play being universally taught (I think incorrectly), much more unlikely you'll see a continental player come up but I don't think it's impossible at all. You can play world class tennis with a continental.
datacipher 3 years ago
No, he was not the most talented, but through hard work, he achieved a thousand times more than other gifted mortals. His tennis achievements when put together in a package has not been equaled by any other tennis player.
He was not appreciated, he did not get his full merit, he did not get the love and respect that he deserved.
rockrose27 3 years ago
He could not play on grass they said, but he managed to win 89 matches on that surface, including 3 grand slam finals and two championships in consecutive years (89,90) at the Queen's Club event before Wimbledon. In 1990 en route to his victory there he beat John McEnroe and Boris Becker in the semis and finals respectively.
rockrose27 3 years ago
but players who never won a single grand slam tournament, of the remaining 5, three of them were against Andre Agassi. How many slams would Ivan have won if he had faced players of that caliber? Of the 19 Grand Slam finals, Ivan faced, players who were multiple slam winners and former number ones, 15 times.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Ivan reached 19 grand slam signals finals, more than any other male player in the open era, he won 8 of them, but a closer look will reveal the fact that he lost 10 of those finals to 5 of the greatest champions in the open era, Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Willander and Becker. Pete Sampras, the greatest tennis player the game has seen so far, has a total of 12 grand slams, 7 of them were against players who not only were never number one,
rockrose27 3 years ago
Now here rockrose, you are totally spot on. Lendl did not get the attention he deserved even though he was probably the most dominant athlete of his era. More so than Gretzky or Jordan. He was a stoney faced foreigner that Americans had trouble warming up to. So effing what right? The man was outfrikenstanding to watch. And his dissection of Mac in the '84 French was the best match ever. I saw Mac at CDG airport the next day and he looked like he had been hit by a truck.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
hahahaha. i bet he was. Poor Mac. gota love him
rockrose27 3 years ago
Yeah, he was in a special line, VIP I suppose and his brother Patrick was there with him. Mac was giving somebody shit, at usual (though it is now 25 years ago and I don't remember the details). He had a HUGE entourage.
Just a little correction, Sampras won 14 slams. And yeah, against middling talents. The 90's were a gawdawful time for tennis.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
The eventual score does not resemble someone who ran out of gas, it is more like a player who's tactics and nerve caught up with him and tried as hard as he could to weather the storm, but could not fight the fury. Score 3-6,2-6,6-4,7-5,7-5 Lendl
rockrose27 3 years ago
I totally agree, bcs here's another example of the establishment, history and his opponent not giving Lendl any respect, if you look at any tennis encyclopedia or listen to any McEnroe broadcast, you will hear how "he got tired in 1984 and lost the French", but in reality, Lendl won that match on pure guts, determination, skill and power.
rockrose27 3 years ago
If you read Mac autobiography (which is an amazing display of unchained ego) he writes that the French loss was his most crushing defeat and that to this day he has not been able to get over it. Of course he will twadle on about getting tired, but watching that match from the Orly Hilton in June of '84 I knew this was something remarkable I would never see again. Lendl sucked it up, and deballed Mac in front of the world.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
ROckrose, I also remember that after Lendl won I called up a friend in Paris and we went to the Parc des Princes and picked up two hookers. Man, that was a great time. They paraded topless in the Parc in front of the CRS.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
that resembles my last trip to Moscow Fanfardon, hahahahaha. very much so. (except the paradiing part probably) been to paris recently, but no hookers, just work and boring french ppl.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Well rickrose, in Moscow if you have money you can fuk the Tzar. Mind you, don't marry some Russian chik. I did. And man, the poontang ain't worth the expense. They come with their mothers attached. By the way, I worked some in France in the 90's and never managed to bag a French chick. It was always an American chick or a Spanish chick visiting France. Could never figure out how to saddle a frog.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
Hahahahaha. you make me laugh man. funny stuff. I am actually from Russia originally, well Ukraine, but all the same shit. at least up to 89' it was anyway!
what you say about russian and $ and women is true my friend. seems you have been to moscow, yes?
rockrose27 3 years ago
Never been to Moscow. Mine is an ethnic Russian from Almaty. Charoshaya devochka with balshi groodyi. I went to work in Almaty and also Bishkek and partied around lake Issykul. I dorked some very nice yellow tail and a spectacular Uighur. But I found the society there very superficial. Everyone dressed to the nines and worried only about high end consumer goods. Well, I ended up with a very high end consumer good and have been paying ever since. I guess you don't need my warnings.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
Kazakhstan? holy shit wow! how in the world did u get up there, ahahaha. i just got back from visiting a client in Kyrgyzstan, Bishkek. God i hate traveling to those shit holes. food is a killer and women are sub par. the whores i am talking about. Groodi eto xorosho. ya tozhe lyblyu bol'shie grydi!! lol
rockrose27 3 years ago
Fanfardon, what did u do in Bishkek. when was this? just curious. i am Ukranian but lived in US since 89'. i work in finance, so i travel a lot. but some of my friends in business, as well as a good paying client is in Bishkek. I visited lake Issyk Kyl in 2007 for the huge corporate party that was thrown there. drove thru the fucking mountains from bishkek for hours to get to the gorgeous place.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Well Rockrose, I was relaxing in Prague for a few months where I have a small property and a Kazakh who owned a bar I frequented invited me to go to Bishkek and Issikyl in search of poontang. And back then, in 2000, the Russian chix were smokin' and knee deep. Today they are all gone. I don't work in finance but I took a class from Fama, and hit the ball with him too at the U of C back in the 80's. Also studied with some derivatives jocks and Andrei Schleiffer, who was a gent.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
i c. interesting indeed. so back in 2000 then. nvrmnd i guess. i was going 2 ask if u have heard of this prominent bank there now, AUB, (asia universal bank). its part russian, part american private creation & i'm close 2 the ppl that started it. in fact work there with them still. they're in bed w/entire presidents cabinet there so its a well connected, fun party. known in Bishkek and IsssyKyl. I'm actually a pro musician. finished Berklee in 2000. taking a long pause from music currently.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Good for you old boy! Eugene Fama is a big proponent of the CAPM and the top dog in the Finance dept. at University of Chicago. Personally I never thought much of him. Was way more blown away by Fischer Black. I will keep my eye out for this bank coz I will have to sell an apartment on Chuy Prospekt soon. The only bank I know there is the Kurulush Bank, which went down in around 2000 stealing most of my wife's money. Man, u must have steel balz to be working with those hoodlumz there.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
oh yes. rings a bell now. didnt catch it right away. sure.
well i am not working with the kyrgz really. ppl behind the bank are russians and some americans(like myself, if i can be so bold to call myself that. well its been 20 years since i moved here , so fuck it:). its basically a convenient pocket bank which is run by smart ppl there now. bought out all other banks in the area and became o powerhouse. government is paid to look the other way - works beautifully for them
rockrose27 3 years ago
Yeah, I guess they have it all figured out. But where do people save their money? Does Deutsche Bank have something down there? My problem is how to sell a property and make sure I don't get robbed during the transaction, and then to get the money the hell out of there.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
At least eight foreign banks operate in the Kyrgyz Republic: Demir Bank (Turkey), Bank of Asia (South Korea), National Bank of Pakistan, ATF Bank Kyrgyzstan (91.8% controlled by the Bank of Austria Creditanstalt BA-CA), Kazcommerce Bank (Kazakhstan), Halyk Bank (Kazakhstan), the Kyrgyz Investment and Credit Bank (owned mostly by international public and private development institutions) and FinanceCreditBank (Kazakhstan).
rockrose27 3 years ago
Thanx for the info rockrose. From what I hear Bakiyev is sitting on a timebomb. Soviet era infrastructure is crumbling (they turn off all hot water for a month in the summer and have frequent power outages in the winter), and the clans from Osh are vying to cut up whatever small part of national wealth remains. Their only embassy in the Western hemisphere is in New York I think, and is barely functioning. Soon they will revert to the pastoral society they were 100 years ago. R u Russian or Ukran
Fanfardon 3 years ago
Ukranian, Odessa. but i moved to US in 89, so back then it was still just plain old Russia or USSR though not for long. (although Ukraine was always trying to set itself apart even in those days). but i spend much time in Moscow - work. i keep a small apartment there in the center. convenient. but expensive. god damn it
rockrose27 3 years ago
Is it one of those apartments like in Ironia Sudby? One of my favorite films by the way. My wife's grandfather came from Odessa. A very interesting town apparently. 2000 years old or so right? I would sooner go there than to Moscow.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
i havent seen that film in years, lol. no, its pretty modern, across from old arbat street, center. odessa is gorgeous. women are off the fucking hook. i swear. hard to get but pretty to marvel at. city by the sea, pretty. history, food, architecture, all there
rockrose27 3 years ago
Man, if you are across from Arbat you are in the frikken centre of town and not doing too bad! You have a view there straight to the Kreml! Maladec ti kakoi! Russia has such an amazing genetic mix. I bet those babes down in Odessa are dark and steaming. But in the end as you might have noticed, the easiest chix to bang in the world are Americans. They will blow you like they are shaking hands.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
who's Fama btw?
rockrose27 3 years ago
Kygyz Rep is so corrupt it turnz my head. I started getting bribe requests at the airport! It blew me away to see all that Soviet infrastructure basically rotting away. And people boiling tea from makeshift fires they set in gutters, right in front of the White House. Their last prez was intellectually brilliant (Akaev) but so beholden to his clan that he was paralyzed. Wrote a very good book on the need for free markets and transparency. What a larf.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
yea, well thats the old soviet block for u. still there, still the same. most of those CIS republics are still backwards as fuck. sad. moscow is glowing, but corrupt as shit. it cannot get more corrupt than moscow. i say moscow bcs that's russia primarily, the rest of the country doesn't matter 1 bit. what do u think of Bakiyev now?
rockrose27 3 years ago
Wilander. Man, I have no idea how that guy got anywhere. Must have caught the others on a bad day.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
"not the most talented"
GEEZ, FINALLY, 35 neurotic posts later, you finally acknowledge that I was correct. Again, you haven't mentioned ONE multiple slam champion you think was less talented. Unbelievable. Reading comprehension people...reading...comprehension...
datacipher 3 years ago
not the most talented, Datacipher, does not make him the LEAST talented, which is what u said and what i have a great deal of problem with.
rockrose27 3 years ago
YAY, FINALLY MAKING PROGRESS.
Though I said "among" the least talented not "the" least talented.
NOW, for the FIFTH TIME: if you disagree, name the players you think were less talented.
THIS IS SIMPLE.
datacipher 3 years ago
grand slammers less talented u ask?
ok:
Safin( i know the guy and he is lost cause)
Kafelnikov - pissed away his career to booze and bitches.
Roddick is far less talented than Lendl. although he is not a true grand slammer. just runner up at best, most of the time
Wilander is less talented than Lendl.
Bruguera - is way less talented. clumsy overrated player.
There, u happy now. Now go back and read up on all these and try to come back with a fight, as u would probably
rockrose27 3 years ago
GOOD! Now:
Safin: first, he has TWO slams, not multiple, if you know him, you should know this. Second, FEW people would consider Safin less talented than Lendl, in fact, most would consider that a ridiculous assertion
Kafelnikov: Again, he didn't have "multiple" slams, only TWO. Second, "pissing away" your career to booze is not a lack of talent. Third, he didn't do that. He was one of the hardest workers on the tour,you're thinking of Safin (you know him right?) lol.
datacipher 3 years ago
Roddick: has ONE slam. ONE. Not "multiple". Reading comprehension.
Wilander: Wilander was considerably quicker than Lendl and had better balance, he was much smoother. On the other hand, he had less power, though he was much more strategically versatile which allowed him to unseat Lendl from #1. Closer call. I'd call it even but I'm willing TO GIVE You Wilander!
Bruguera: again, he has TWO slams. Reading comprehension. "clumsy" is a ridiculous way to describe a back to back FO player.
datacipher 3 years ago
So, again, you have listed ONE player, who is arguably less talented than Lendl: Wilander.
This hardly contradicts my assertion that Lendl was "among the least talented multiple grand slam champions".
In fact, your arugment, or rather lack thereof, validate it. Thanks.
datacipher 3 years ago
i strongly disagree with u that there is just ONE that is less talented out there than Lendl. but even though, this is ALL you have asked me to do. u said to name 1. i DID!!! so u admitted it, means u lost and means i was right. can u pleaseeeeee shut the fuck up now and take defeat like a real man. or are u a chicken shit canadian boy?
rockrose27 3 years ago
Yikes...kids today. Oh...sorry...i mean 32 yr olds today. lol.
Again, I said "he was among the least talented". Naming one player who is arguably less talented does not invalidate my statement. It verifies it.
Furthermore, I did not ask you to name "one", I asked you to name the "playerS" who you thought were less talented. Which is what you tried to do. I only pointed out that until that point, you hadn't even named "one". Again, reading comprehension, kiddo..
datacipher 3 years ago
go look up data on Bruguera. they all claim he had an ugly, lucky game. no one knows why he got those 2, but he did. one of those freakish accidents i guess. he was ugly to watch
rockrose27 3 years ago
god u are a retard. where in teh world did u come from or what rock have crawled out of. yes i know both of them. indirectly. iam russian and have spoken to them off court and drank with them in russia in russian. i know mych about them. pls shut the fuck up. pls, for the live of god. go die somewhere quietly.
Kafelnikov did work hard and then he DID drink and piss his career away. he never took himself seriously and never fully developed what little talent he had. that was a failure
rockrose27 3 years ago
Safin is an injured retard that had some form of talent, but his anger management problems and other psychological battles off court seem to take the best of him. when he is on - boy he is really on. but the rest of the time he looks like a loosing, crying child. so pls again, shut the hell up. u know very little. btw Kafelnikov has 4 more doubles grand slam titles. i counted those. surely they stand for something. good job on wikipedia lookups
rockrose27 3 years ago
LOL! OH, you're counting doubles titles eh? Of course that doesn't explain the inclusion of Roddick, Safin, Bruguera etc.
Gee, now we can throw in Mirnyi and the Woodies and Haarhuis, Flach, Seguso, Knowles, Flemming, etc.....LOL!
datacipher 3 years ago
then came Ivan, he brought massive power from the baseline to the game. No longer where baseliners defensive players, he attacked & took control of the outcome of the point, instead of waiting for an error.
rockrose27 3 years ago
Ivan is considered a father of modern tennis. why? --- Prior 2 the rise & domination of Lendl, pro tennis was ruled by 2 styles, players could either be classified as Borgians (High loopy, heavy topspin, from the baseline, very defensive, waiting for the opponent to make a mistake) McEnroeseque (serve and volleyers with weak ground strokes, who rushed the net at every opportunity),
rockrose27 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ivan was the first champion to take advantage of scientific advances in training routines. He lifted weights, did aerobics and cross- training. At his prime, no other tennis player was in better shape.
He may not have been the fastest, but his off court work and his anticipation, made it seem like there was no ball he could not reach.
At 6'2" 175lbs, he was the prototype of the modern tennis player, he was not going to pushed around.
rockrose27 3 years ago
thank you Sir, whoever you are. iam 32 and i was not there unfortunately. i wish i was bcs 80's was the best era in tennis, period. no one can argue. today's girly tennis (with exception of roger mostly)is crappy and boring. will never be like b4. and few can play and represent tennis lie Lendl did back in teh day. i watched his every move as a kid, and although never seen him live as you have - i have admired this man greatly and still do!
rockrose27 3 years ago
The 3rd email Rockrose has sent me in the past 10 min. He's actually 15, and clearly very troubled.
"fucking canadian fag. come here to NY so i can make u eat ur fucking shoes fucking canadian fag. come here to NY so i can make u eat ur fucking shoes
u r such a fool. posted what i wrote to u so u can get some help and praise from others on how smart u are in front of some 15 year old kid? seeking compassion bcs u probably have little friends or ppl that care about u. lonely fool"
datacipher 3 years ago
my god. u wont stop. u were never loved as a kid, were u? writing bullshit on here so ppl get behind u and believe u? u are just seeking attention, bcs u seem to be an attention whore. u are a fool and feel compelled to justify urself here as if someone actually cares. goes to say something abiut u probably, doesnt it. insecure, stupid, probably depressed, friendless and lonely
rockrose27 3 years ago
Well rockrose, I agree with you. I stopped going to tournaments in the late 80's. The personalities disappeared and all you had were manufactured robots grinding away. Sorry to Sampras fans, but he was the most boring exemplar of this breed. Rog is of course brilliant though these days I can't afford the $100 plus pricetags to go see him. That Spaniard he plays is a robotic grinder. Tell you what, Jose Higueras was also a joy to watch with his bizarre barogue forehand.
Fanfardon 3 years ago
On the contrary, many experts DO share that he was an incredible player.he made it into International Hall of Fame!! have all players done that? Was ranked No. 1 in the world for 270 weeks, including 157 straight from Sept.85' thru Sept.88'. Captured 8 career singles titles in Grand Slam events and reached an astounding 19 Slam singles finals.During the 1980's, was one of the game's most dominant players. In 82, he won 15 of 23 singles tournaments entered,a record of 107-9.
rockrose27 3 years ago
1985 through 1987, Lendl's match winning percentage was greater than 90%. This record was equaled by Roger Federer in 2006. Ivan, however, remains the only male with at least 90% match wins in four different years. Lendl Won 222 Grand Slam singles matches (third after Connors and Agassi).Shares with Sampras the record for most Masters singles titles (5).
rockrose27 3 years ago
Dishonest? I try not to be, I'm not perfect. but if you doubt how Great Ivan Lendl was, just go to Wikipedia. See all his records and statistics. Such incredible statistics are not considered "least talented". He's near the top of all time and doesn't need to be called "the least talented" of grand slam champions. His record speaks for itself. Peace. I respect your views, but I don't necessarily agree with what you say.
Peace
jkygogo 3 years ago
Ah, well I don't need to look up his records on Wiki. LOL. I know them all from memory. You are not dishonest if you think his statistics/accomplishments prove him to not be among the "least talented multiple grandslam champions". Obviously there is some kind of disconnect going on in your mind. THE WHOLE point of the OP was the contrast between a far less talented player WHO ACCOMPLISHED far more and a player of extreme talent who accomplished nothing in terms of a legacy of greatness.
datacipher 3 years ago
Again, if you think he is not among the "least talented multiple grand slam champions", you have yet to name the champions you think are less talented.
datacipher 3 years ago
oh holly jesus. u are still here doing this shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! only with someone else now, ahahahahahaha. fucking retard, i swear.
to whoever datacipher is talking to:
just say Wilander and this fool will give up and walk away. hahahahaha save ur time
rockrose27 3 years ago
here it is again. players less talented than Lendl. and u said multiple, and 2 or more means multiple:
1.Safin
2. Wilander
3.Hewitt - good fella but no character to his game. what did he contribute, like Lendl did?
4.Kuerten - ok, but no where near thye level of consistency as Lendl. just plain old Ok.
5.Rafter - another faded star. ok, but no match.
does this satisfy u now. will u pls shut up now old fool?
rockrose27 3 years ago
Datacipher, I think you should reread the statistics on Wikipedia. He's one of the greatest of all time. And no, no disconnect. I think you have some disconnect from the facts. He is one of the greatest of all time and not one of the least talented of Multiple Grand Slam Winners. But if you don't think so, oK, I disagree with you, and you of my views.
Peace my friend.
jkygogo 3 years ago
to say that the father of modern tennis and a multiple grandslam winner, a fucking IDOL - is a least talent player is just a reflection on what type of ignorant, dumb fuck you probably are. go back to softball or something, we dont need ur ass in tennis
rockrose27 3 years ago
What we don't need is childish insults and juevenile rhetoric. If you disagree, simply state your premise. Tell us which multiple grand champions you think are less talented than Lendl. Unless you do that, your post cannot be taken seriously and is simply: embarassing.
datacipher 3 years ago
datacipher - do u wanna go fuk urself? r u a cop here making sure things are up and up? who died and made u the judge here. no one wants to here your self righteous crap, shut the fuk up!
rockrose27 3 years ago
Ah, so you don't actually know of any players and are just trolling for attention? Right. Silly, silly boy. lol. I shouldn't laugh, it's sad that there are so many kids out there who act out like this!
datacipher 3 years ago
yes i do. i am sorry i am not a loser like u and have other shit to do than sit here and type away all day long. get a life. i will post facts here soon. u didnt even give me a chance u dumb fuck. who are u calling a kid idiot?? i am 32 years old. fucking jerk
rockrose27 3 years ago
If you're really 32, then I am sorry. That's really sad. You must have a lot of problems, either developmental or ps0chological. Good luck to you. But please don't send private emails like:
"dick
u dumb dick. i should have figured. u are canadian. that explains it all"
I understand you are angry and wish to lash out, but it doesn't hurt me, it is just sad.
datacipher 3 years ago
even though he quit over a decade ago - he is a 6th All-time leader in earnings!! it takes sheer talent to get to that level. something you - DATACIPHER - obviously know very little about.Tennis magazine named him as one of the ten greatest tennis players since 66', calling him "game's greatest overachiever" & emphasizing his importance in the game's history. Reached at least 1 Grand Slam final for 11 consecutive years, an all-time record since tied by Pete Sampras.
rockrose27 3 years ago
This is sad. You've now cut and paste various facts you've googled. But none contradict my premise (one that most experts would agree with) that he was "one of the least talented multiple slam champions". THAT was the statement you disagreed with. Please name the champions you think are less talented.
You don't seem to understand that nobody said he was no "good" or that he had no "accomplishments". Your intellectual capacity seems quite questionable.
datacipher 3 years ago
yes i pasted facts, bcs an ignorant fool like u should probably go to wikipedia once more to get familiar with facts b4 u open that foolish mouth. my mental capacity is at question? first u are a self proclaimed "expert", now u are a shrink? what da fuck is wrong with you. who do u think u are, u little terd?
rockrose27 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Nice Video lolz, my names Ava, im feelin n0rty and h0rn3y if any guyz wana chat im usually on
___ FriendlyFlirts..dot..COM ___ my username there is Ava-essstmgbyqf chat soon ;)
Almaharel 3 years ago
henri really should've won this tournament at least once. his game is so complete (for grass) and nobody posessed a better backhand volley. what a joy to watch.
teflonmagnet 4 years ago 2