@sounddoctorin I agree with you completly but I have atheists tell me they had the "experiance" yet now deny Him and the only reason I've been given for that denial was " i got smart" or " I woke up". Silly, I know but how does one say " you really didn't ...." without sounding like a holier than thou??
@tnmusicman1 The one who is 'holier than' is the person who claims to be so ALL KNOWING that they know the experience someone else had to such an extent that they can say "I had the same one and it was fake". LOL! I mean talk about making one's self out to be GOD LIKE! Good grief! haha. That's the ultimate position of prideful foolishness. So I guess you just point out that logic and if they listen they do. If they want to hate you for speaking truth well..what's the point?
I was a christian in the sense that I was indoctrinated at an early age and taught not to question my beliefs. I was sincere and had a genuine desire to be a good person and live a life in christ. The problems began when I started to seriously look at the ethics of christianity, the logic behind some of its teachings, and the history of the bible's creation and the politics behind it. I didn't rebel against god, I just had to be honest about what I believed. it would have been easier to lie.
@deejayalemus Indoctrinated and sincere are contradictory. You're one or the other.
A sincere person REALIZES when they are being indoctrinated and they QUESTION that. The are HONEST about their foundations and admit it to others. YOU WERE TAUGHT not to QUESTION? Ok that's as far as I read. Next.
@sounddoctorin people are usually indoctrinated at an early age, before they develop critical thinking skills. many, as a result of their indoctrination never learn these skills. you can be sincere about the things you were taught to be believe, especially if you had no reason to question them. is that really contradictory to you? your curt dismissal of my experience tells me you really don't care for an opposing viewpoint. next.
@deejayalemus I'm just using logic. INDEED most are indoctrinated etc. SOME never learn those skills and just stay in their dumb religion. I meanwhile wound up trying to REASON using those skills and got rejected by the people in the environment I grew up in for the most part.
So this is all moot to me. There is NOTHING SINCERE I'm saying about eating the crap sandwich. Don't ya see? When someone tells you to believe the NATURAL answer is "WHY"? Each is responsible to evaluate.
@sounddoctorin thank you for being patient and explaining your point of view to me. at some point everyone asks the big questions, and the answers are definitely out there for the seeker to find.
@deejayalemus Seek the truth and you WILL find it. That's what this whole video is about really. it's to call people to recognize that they've been distracted from God's still-small voice and have listened to the clutter people have put in front of them. When people say "I used to be a CHristian", they always mean "I used to kiss up to some system of man". It never means they experienced a real relationship with God and God said "I really don't exist.." POOF! LOL.
@sounddoctorin As you made your video to preach to the converted or to reign in the lost sheep, I understand that I am not your target audience. My comments were made out of passing interest, and your point of view is one I'm familiar with. We can agree to disagree, and I'm cool with that.
@deejayalemus ? No I didn't. I made it to challenge people who are atheists claiming that they used to be Christians. I'm telling them that when they ADMIT not believing that there is anything spiritual, that this gives them exactly ZERO data by which to judge whether someone else might/might not know that there IS something spiritual going on and so on. ANd then I challenge people of course to look at the credibility of the bible and seek God and he will lead them to the truth.
@sounddoctorin So, you want me to admit that I don't know anything about spirituality? As an abstract concept I have some idea of what it means to theists, but I don't buy it any more than the concept of a soul. You can claim to know more than me on the subject, doesn't mean that your supposed authority on the subject is true. Learning about the Council of Nicaea taught me a lot about the creation of the Bible, and solidified my belief that it was man made from the get go.
@deejayalemus This whole conversation is just baseless. You start it out making hand waving claims about some 'logic' you performed. Listen. The reason I basically kick arse and you eat grass in the field of logical debate, is that I come forth with actual reasoning. I say WHAT I find to be illogical. I post the logical processes! IN ENTIRETY! I don't leave people guessing. THE *knowledge* I'm talking about only comes from having an actual relationship. All else is meaningless guessing
@sounddoctorin you are right about this conversation being baseless... I admit that I did not organize my thoughts very well or articulate my thought processes behind my conclusions, mainly because I`d be typing hefty paragraphs and wasting time with dealing with the theistic POV (tedious in its own right). what the ***k are 'hand waving claims' and how does one `'perform logic`' exactly... thanks for letting me know we were having a logical debate, because I had no illusion that we were.
@deejayalemus I don't argue opinions. It's a waste of time. Jesus defined what a Christian is. LOGICALLY this state of being either DOES, or DOES NOT exist in truth. (From the perspective of one who hasn't potentially had some absolute validation given to them). According to Jesus' definition you aren't a Christian and never were because John 10 says "HEARING" his voice is one of the qualifiers. If you heard it you wouldn't be denying it now right? So it's pointless.
Many atheists are hypocrites on this issue because while they accept Christians may become atheists, they do not accept that atheists can become Christians. This hypocrisy infects even popular atheists like PZ Myers, Atheist Experience, etc. Perhaps they are worried that upon objectively examining the evidence, atheism becomes the delusional position.
if someone were to hand you a book saying "here are your set morals. here is your reward for following them and here is your punishment for not following them" i can see no situation where the person follows those rules with no thought of the reward or punishment. that is not being moral. that is following rules dictated to you. now if you believe in no punishment or reward and are still kind and decent to your fellow man then you are being moral. doing so to avoid hell or get to heaven is not.
@itsuyo211 I don't see how any of this relates to Christianity. The bible isn't a set of morals. It's historical records largely. Those events were recorded...nobody handed the people who recorded them a book of morals. NOR would any logical person believe such a thing just because someone DID hand them one and say that. John 7:17 records Yeshua saying something very relevant. Why not read that some time and try again? God created us for relationship. If we want to do his will..then ...
@sounddoctorin ..then we see whether his words are true. And obviously his spirit bears witness of other things that are true that are for our edification also. This is I believe how the books of the bible were distinguished from those that are not so edifying. Many books through history have been created to help further someone's personal agenda etc. But God wants us to know the truth that will set us free spiritually. I challenge you to seek him and open your heart to that truth.
@itsuyo211work of jesus isnt for everyone. work is only for those that know the price for following jesus, the poor in spirit will go to heaven. the work is for the one that accepts the consequences and even knowing that, i would still tell people not to follow me. a real christian does great things in this world on payment of his own life. didnt every historical people that died do this? i accept jesus as a brother before and after i read because i feel exactly like those who died as he did.
In the description for your video, you said "I think we all would agree that a Christian is indeed a person who truly follows the teaching of Yeshua." I did very sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. Then, bit by bit, I came to the realization that it was flawed *as a religion*. (And yes Christianity IS a religion.) I still follow the core teaching of "Love thy neighbor as thy self",. Can someone who follows the teachings of Jesus be a non Christian? It doesn't appear so.
@wireddavinci I'm not in a religion that men conceived. I'm in a relationship with God through his spirit that was in Yeshua. *Many* religions have sprung up that claim to follow Jesus. They always teach something contrary to the context of scripture though...strangely it seems. Once a man becomes the focus it's all downhill from there :-). ANYWAY if you follow it on your *own* then you haven't truly followed the teachings of Yeshua. Read it again. Pray this time for the spirit to lead
@wireddavinci actually if you practice the morales of Christianity you're not a christian having a sincere belief and a strong love and trusting God with everything you say and do is true christianity
@helmwang Each person from birth only knows his own pain/pleasure until some EXTERNAL change happens. Internally that's all he knows. People get socialized by being threatened with alienation, punishment etc. Is that any credit to THEM? No. And in fact it's dependent on the society. Some parents don't discipline their kids and they turn out to be demoniacs. AND of course atheists in power positions vs. deists is the differences between millions dead and 10's of millions dead. hehe.
@sounddoctorin Theists in power vs deists in power? Seriously? Some of mankinds greatest atrocities have come from religion. The crusades, the 30 years war, European colonization of the Americas. Even the troubles in N.Ireland (Protestant and Catholics). There is no scarier sense of self-entitlement and self-righteousness than when, throughout history, someone has decided that something written in a book gives them the right to wipe out an entire people. I've not seen anyone pick up.. (cont. ^)
@helmwang continuing, so what *is* your 'source' of morality? Self-righteousness? (you won't answer...of course. Because you know that has horrible connotations). WHERE did you get it when people like Stalin and Mao and pot didn't? DID YOU KNOW that in a non-spiritual universe there isn't even a source of choice? That all you do is a result of the laws of physics applied tot he prior state of matter plus some laws we don't know? :-) But in any case you aren't responsible for any of that?
@sounddoctorin Where did Christians get their morals during the 9 Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Ordeals, their treatment of Atheist aka heretics, I could go on forever. You'll probably make up some excuse for Christianity, go on.
@colorblindvids Perhaps you missed the information in this and other vids. NOT ALL who call themselves a CHristian are. I ASKED "If people start a group called weigellians (after my name) and they torture puppy dogs as their main activity, would YOU continue calling them that if you knew me and knew that I had nothing to do with that?"
See...that's what YOU are guilty of right here. I'm not making up anything jackass. YOU are. Claiming people are xtians when they do the OPPOSITE of Jesus.
well we (Christians) donot fallow the bible because we are "scared to burn for eternity we fallow the bible because we love Christ and we love Christ because he first loved us by giving up his life for you and me. and it is good that you do good to your fellow man but "it is hard even for a righteous man to be saved" but it is not by what we as christians do that saves us its our relationship with Jesus Christ and if you want to know what true morals are then read exodus 20
@Tab54o Christians should tell the truth. If a person is stupid then a Christian should properly identify them as such. Seriously...dude you missed the joke. "Stupid animal tricks" was a show or something. Atheists think humans are animals. GET IT?? It's a joke son..a joke.... regardless nobody can tell you this in private since you have non-friends blocked so.. I'll block you since I can't tell you not to post irrelevant things in private. bye.
@sounddoctorin Humans are animals. We are mammals. Just because we are slightly more complex than a chimp (and I emphasise slightly), to say we are somehow above animals because we can read/build aeroplanes is silly. On a genetic level we ARE animals. We evolved from them. Although I guess this wasn't a solid theory in biblical times so we mustn't advance from that huh?
@StarringEverett Yeah the whole concept of allegedly going and seeing what every other person has seen when they were supposedly Christians...but YOU recognized it was fake. That is so all fired arrogant and presumptuous. I can't think of anything more arrogant than to think your experiences are identical to everyone else's. That nobody else has possibly seen something deeper. That's just amazing. I FULLY believe that there are TONS of people who have submitted to God and seen more than me.
atheists are the anti-christ they are satans helpers they will be the ones who will be left on earth as the rest of us are taken by god to live and walk with jesus
@94civiclxgrey If we didn't find your set of primitive, perverse, and frankly unbelievable fairytales convincing enough to discard reason and disregard everything we know about anything at all, then you were going to punish us forever, without mercy, for eternity on the crime of not being stupid enough to believe impossible nonsense for no good reason.
I know this is what you think God thinks we deserve, but you think it is what we deserve as well, isn't it?
@steveb0503 Steve i don't care if you are atheist.. you have your non beliefs and just like you I WILL LIVE IN MY FAIRY TALE IF I WANT TO BELIEVE IN GOD THEN I WILL, YOU AND YOUR "FRIENDS" WILL HAVE FUN HERE. GOD HAS HELPED ME I KNOW YOU THINK I AM CRAZY OH HOW CAN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE BE THERE AND DO ALL THESE GREAT THINGS FOR YOU WELL I HONESTLY DONT KNOW BUT I DO KNOW THAT I WAS HEALED WITH OUT MEDICAL ATTENTION.. again im sorry you've strayed hes only a prayer away Amazing things await..
@94civiclxgrey Listen, I was just giving you crap because you act like WE'RE the ones who believe in something ridiculous, and that makes us bad, evil, or whatever. We think you're the ones with the delusion, but the difference is, we don't accuse you of being evil (or "in league with Satan"), we just think you're wrong. But the problem is, our beliefs inform our actions, and we simply feel you "beleivers" should show better reasons for your beliefs other than simply preference.
@94civiclxgrey yes and unfortunately they think things just happen to them that are bad when the rest of us can go around and have a decent life with some struggles eveyone has those but thats jesus keeping us on our toes we have to make the right choices he can only give us the option to do right whether we stay in the light or stray in the dark is up to us and my god have mercy on your souls when he returns i hope you find faith
We'all should keep our religious views to ourselves. No one cares what you or I believe. It should remain personal. Don't preach. There would be very few wars if we all just shut up about religion.
"I used to be a liar, trust everything I tell you!" lol, that is a good point. Its kinda like that old " I am a liar. The last statement I made is true?"
Or the old Star Trek "Everything Harry says is a lie"..and then the computer driven guy hears from Harry Mudd "I'm lying".... as smoke starts to come out of his ears...
Hehe..thanks for recognizing that. :-) It's so common to past the NTS onto all kinds of things that *potentially merit* a valid definition that has *exclusive parameters*. Whereas there is no character definition for instance of what a Scotsman is, there most certainly *are* definitions of the development of a Christian. Once Matthew 18:15 is executed in an accurate way on a person they are to be treated as a heathen according to Jesus. Regardless of what they call themselves.
Your comment has nothing to do with anything that was said. Who was stealing? Huh? LISTEN! UNLESS someone has a CHANGE IN CHARACTER to where they are 'hidden in Christ' so that they are CHANGED and all that is left is the developed character that is set apart for HIM when it's their time to depart from this flesh, then they will NOT BE IN HEAVEN but will got o a place "out of his sight". That's the summary from the bible. Do you need me to walk you through those scriptures?
I hate the threads. I try to remove a post and click and nothing happens. I click again and remove someone's comment who loves the video. Lol! Well..whoever you were say it again I guess. What a dumb interface.
Actually he commanded ONE GUY who was hung on his wealth to give away all HE had. So you are incorrect. Check out the song 'feeding frenzy' on the sounddoctorin website (the com site on the sdstudio link. and song samples).
Look..If you want *respect* here..first acknowledge the point that was previously made. Proudfootz was a totally representing the verse out of context. NOW ALONG COMES...you. And you do the *same thing*. You take a verse that talks about *hating the source of leading* in context.... and try to turn it into actually planning evil things you can do to people etc. 2nd Jesus posted logic. *IF* it were your hand that was keeping you from heaven then BETTER to cut it off! ie. do what it takes.
okay right fair enough if your doing a christian series its not so bad because it shows kind of 2 points to an argument. But atheism doesnt fit a selfish agenda, im not selfish and im not an atheist just to fit my own agenda. Neither am i following the beliefs of others or following 'the crowd' i came to the decission by myself :). Anyway yer sound haha
Actually a *true* follower of the Jesus historically recorded in 4 completely cohesive accounts..well one with multiple second hand accounts which makes it even less likely that any are fabrications at all... doesn't use 'stupid tricks'. They are 100% honest. I can't lie or I have to go tell people I lied so what's the point? I fully believe I'd go to hell if I just lied as many do. But *many claiming* to be Christians do use deceit to compel people to give to religious businesses etc.
Multiple WHATEVER accounts of this complexity make the odds of something proving that someone is lying IF they are extraordinarily high. I mean do the mechanics. Liars have an agenda. To twist things a particular way. The ...motivational analysis strikes out. Jesus telling people to not worry about tomorrow etc.?? Huh? Manipulators WANT people to store up for tomorrow so they can ransack them! etc. But anyway all the testimonies are non-copy yet completely cohesive. highly unlikely..
i'd like to know what problem you have with atheists? I respect your views/opinions/beliefs, i may not think they're right but i do respect them. Why put up a video insulting mine and others beliefs?
To me *respect* means something. It means that I can see the credible pathway by which someone comes to a position. I don't *respect* people who 1) Adopt the beliefs of others willy nilly . That's stupid. 2) Believe something because it fits a selfish agenda. etc. etc. In posting reasonings people find it insulting. Ironically I'm about to do a followup to this series called "Stupid Chrisitan tricks" fyi though :-). I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
I wanted to start of by saying that i was raised in a shielded environment in a catholic school. I was fed the bible, i went to church every week and prayed and put all my heart into it and believed it all. I knew no differnet and as i was so young i couldnt really sample the outside world in its rawest and most free form so it cant be argued that the opportunity was there for me to disagree with what i was being spoon fed because i had no counter arguments
Roman Catholicism is full of contradictions. Your point? I'm erasing the rest of your stuff because it's already been dealt with in the video or rest of the thread. Please keep comments relevant and original. Thanks. -Bob
As i became older and sampled everything the world had to offer in regards to religious stand points etc. i started to change my mind and through a long road of self discovery i came to the conclusion that i didnt believe in anything that i had done in the past and didnt believe there was a god (not to be confused with something higher than us out there). Can it be said that i wasnt a true Christian before i became an atheist?
Correct. According to Jesus' definition, you weren't following him before you became an atheist. You were allowing a warped group to lay a bunch of unfounded stuff on you. That's not what Jesus said a Christian is. Furthermore his Revelation words via John tell us that he hates the teaching of the nicolaitans. Any group that installs a clergy/leity separation is nicolaitan. It means to subdue the common people. Jesus died to open the holy of holies FOR YOU!
Hehe. Well these videos were kind of a 'probe' in a way. I titled it something that atheists could resist responding to and giving low 'star' ratings of course. Because it's the only way they know how to 'get back' at something they can't contest the reasoning contained therein. But it appeared from the initial burst of activity that there are about 700 really hyper-active atheists on youtube as of last year or so. Then after a day or so the view rate plummeted.
I really was a "christian", I mean a "real christian" as you say, I was even a "paster" of a church, but I had questions, questions that could not answered, I have read the bible, I did "know" god, but the questions were never answered. I am sorry but, "The Age of Reason" has started and I can only hope you will accept the truth, not lies or false storys.
Before I block this clown, I want to point out that MANY Satanists POSE as Christians just to try to discredit the church, obviously. NOTE how this moron can't even spell PASTOR..hehe...yet claims to have been one :-). MOST *real* pastors though don't remotely follow what Jesus said, so I can't call *them* Christians either. They are religious shop-owners. If you had any questions you wanted to ask you'd have asked them instead of lying about being a "paster". hehe. Loser.
I would like to chat or visit with you online somehow if i could or if you wouldnt mind. I too have a ton of questions and do not feel satisfied with just believing in something based on surface value. I dont know what to do..
2) You are asking something that's already been covered but since it's SUCH a popular question..once again on top it goes. READ. It's irrelevant because it's unprovable 1 way or the other. The word is *reserved* for those who follow this character whether or not you consider him to be hypothetical in your own evaluation. Millions of people say he's real so it *merits* a term reserved to describe the 'phenomena' even from a skeptic's perspective. Follow?
So, how do you know YOU'RE a Christian? What evidence can you present?
My favorite test that should definitively detect a "follower" is in Mark 16:18. "...if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them". Try that.
Of course, if you think that possibly this verse is FALSE, or if you think maybe you AREN'T a follower, then of course you shouldn't drink, because it would totally kill you.
Each person knows if they have a spiritual relationship. It is commanded that I not 'put the Lord your God to the test'. It never said TO drink the poison moron. It said IF one drinks it like..accidentally or like Paul getting bitten by the poisonous snake... that we will be delivered from the results of it by the power of his spirit. Now since you are giving deadly /stupid advice, I'm kicking you out. Bye.
no a true believer wouldnt drink it because it is said in the bible and quoted by Jesus himself DONT TEMPT THE LORD UR GOD it means dont do stupid things because u expect god to bail u out and when he said drink the poison god was really saying that even though the enemy tries to hurt u in ways u dont even know or see he protects u u see the person that drank the poison didnt know he was drinking it. he was BEING poisoned
well that vers you are talking about isnt a test of salvation or chrisianity. as christians we are protected from these things when in Gods will. but if you knew the bible like you say you do you should also know that the bible says not to tempt the lord your God and if someone was to drink a "deadly thing" to prove God then he would be a fool. and to know how we as Christians know there is a God look around you at His creation and in His word seek Him and you will find Him
@RichardKrehbiel dude,, your not supposed to drink anything of the sort if i did then you would return to the dust. what good would it do if you were silenced would the dust speak??? oviously not. the passage is a strength thing. i guaranty you wouldnt last a day in my shoes dealing with the poison i drink. real christians are atacked both by athiest and churches. who the heck are you??? you wouldn crush a soul with your mouth. everyone you fight here are lost sheep and you are a black sheep.
Exactly..and according to Jesus the only way to be like him is to spiritually follow him. He said 'my words are spirit'. So BASICALLY to the believer... they see it that way. To the UNBELIEVER... they need to reserve IN their dictionary a *position of hypothetical viability* for a word that describes such a state of being *if* indeed it is a possible state. They have no hypothetical way to know. And since millions claim to be IN this place..hey... let's set apart the logical word for it.
Jesus said the way is narrow. Look at the bible. There is always a *tiny* remnant who don't become arrogant and prideful and puffed up to the point where they can't hear the truth. Convinced their they *are* their own God..in essence. Probably not.. 10... hehe. But in Revelation God is going to have 144000 set apart that he is going to preserve and put his mark on to protect them from the curses therein. This is *spiritual Israel* as defined in Leviticus.
what if a person was raised as a christian and truly believed at one point, but later realized that they were simply being subjected to their family's belief system and changed their mind about what they, personally, believed later on. then i believe that the statement "i used to be a christian" is absolutely legitimate. i only watched half of your video bc your keyboards get on my nerves lol basically who are you to determine what someone believed in the past lol
The CHRIST of Christianity defined what it is to follow him. It denotes that a person has an actual spiritual relationship which they CAN NOT DENY!
Now if no such person EXISTS...then we *might* clearly see that..or we might not. Regardless the word has a RIGHT to maintain a place *in the language* that is PROPERLY DEFINED so long as *any* doubt remains. And one who admits they had no such relationship reveals they definitely do not fit IN the definition the Christ of Christianity laid out.
I hope you at least realize that this just is a tautology.
Your definition only holds if the bible should happen to be correct on these issues. Since the burden of proof is on your side, I and everyone else who honestly thinks about the topic defines "christian" in a more useful way, like "someone who believes this and that" and following this definition there are ex-christians.
I have actual spiritual experience. It can't be potentially shared. So nobody cares about you whining and claiming that Jesus had no right to define what it is to follow him and there is NO POTENTIAL to share *proof*. EG> a person witnesses a murder. IS THE BURDEN OF PROOF on him? No. He simply testifies of what he saw. Dimmy. Why is this so hard for you people to get? WAKE UP! Look at all the thumbs ups on non-sensical statement below and the 1 stars. You people have '0' credibility.
PS if this person doesn't stop posting dumb arguments I'm going to delete them. I just erased one where he's babbling about questions as to whether Jesus existed. Again that doesn't MATTER. I discuss the credibility of the bible in these videos. But let's say this *was* a 'pink unicorn' crackpot thing. And one guy claims to know the pink unicorn. And we define a word 'punicorn' to describe those following it. Those STILL following have a RIGHT to the name. Someone who said they ....
continuing... said they FOLLOWED but found out it wasn't real... hey. This means nothing. They should simply say "I was a liar. I claimed to follow something that I never actually SAW!!!!" Does that prove that the other person didn't see one that asked him to follow? NO! Leave the poor man/woman to their delusion if that's what it is. So long as they don't say the p.u. asked them to kill all the infidels or something. Then declare war against them. Done deal. No unicorn, no fear, right?
So you are saying god created people to be athiests?
I used to believe in god (religous indoctrination) until I questioned my faith and the morals and motives of god. There is a lot of evidence contradicting his existance.
I thought I replied to this... This makes no sense. Where did I say that God created peple to be atheists? Some people are just too off the wall to figure out. -Bob
So I guess by your logic it would be inpossible to take a Mouge(spelling?) synthesizer(spelling?) and then replace it with other parts? Because if it were, you'd say it used to be a Mouge, but no longer is.
hehe..it's moog but to help people pronounce it they came out with a "Rogue" synthesizer in the mid/late 70's sometime. Anyway first I want to thank you for posting something that isn't the typical response! I actually have to think because I haven't heard this 50,000x! :-) But quickly no analogy is perfect. And to talk about what you are talking about really doesn't fit because when a person enters into a spiritual relationship with Jesus they know him! So they can't honestly unknow him...
and continuing... the usual reply to this will be an argument from ignorance that no such state of being exists. But that is..an a from i. ...so let's not go there. There is even from an atheist position an hypothetical possibility that some people do have such a relaitonship. And if you look at the words of Jesus which defines what Christianity is, that's the only state of being that is indeed meaningful. So the only one he would call after *his* name.
When I was a kid I became a born again Christian. I really believe I felt the Holy Spirit upon me when I converted. Today I believe the experience, that was basically just a feeling of sleepy calm, wasn't supernatural, but it took many years to get to the point I am today. There was no "unknowing". If such a relationship does exist, it's more of a neglecting of it, not a one moment. Do you believe that once someone has "found Jesus" they don't have to try anymore to remain with the spirt?
Being born again isn't a feeling. It's a spiritual transformation in which God's spirit begins a relationship with ours. And *if* that is real then yes people will persist to draw into that relationship. You didn't. So yours might have been a socio-religiously induced feeling. Whatever. Like I said it's an a from i to claim that this applies to anyone's but your own.
Actually an argument from ignorance is when you say something is true because it cannot be proven false. I.E.- you cannot prove God doesn't exist, therefore he must, that would be an a from i. I did in fact persist in it for many years, and eventually began to fall away. I also do not claim to know what the experience of others are, only my own. Were they Christians? I think the only one that can answer that is themselves, and that it is POSSIBLE to know God and later think it was an illusion.
If you admit you didn't have a spiritual experience, I'm just saying that you have no basis by which to judge that others didn't. You would be admitting ignorance and claiming it as 'information'. A classic 'a from i'. in the technical meaning of the words :-). What kind of fallacy would you call that then? I see many pages that don't even list argument from ignorance. Just use language intelligently and people should be able to figure out what you're saying..I say...
I don't believe I did, though I could be mistaken. I believe that if I didn't, then it could be that others were also fooled.
Ever been drunk before? What if you had a few glasses of champaign and had that experience of being drunk. Later you think back and remember you actions not being what other people described as drunk so maybe you just THOUGHT you were drunk. So you stop believing you were ever drunk. Doesn't mean you actually were not drunk that one time.
Jesus said 'if anyone wants to do God's will,then they will see whether my words are my own, or whether they come from the father'. So in order to find out, why don't you just spend some time praying and if there's no God then..what have you lost? :-) Ask him to show you your heart's motives and if your heart has ever been set apart for him. No I've never been drunk..never tried liquor. CERTAINLY others have fooled themselves. But it doesn't discount the possibility or real experiences.
It's a common argument that I have seen Christians use as well. They are just trying to make the point that their current opinion is somehow more developed than their previous.
I have also seen it used in unrelated subjects. An example from the video gaming scene, "I used to be a console gamer" (which implies gaming on a PC is superior) comes to mind.
So although you have brought up something very valid in this video, please don't pretend this is something only atheists do.
Nobody is 'pretending' anything. But the other common 'trick' is to try to equate things that have common aspects but aren't equal. In this case, the atheist has no way to know if there ISN'T such a thing as a real Christian who has a spiritual relationship. (Because IF you once had a REAL spiritual relationship, then you can't honestly say you are an atheist! :) ). But you CERTAINLY can KNOW that you once didn't believe *then* had a spiritual experience that confirmed to you God's existence
All day in your videos, you say, "How can atheists know there is not a god", and I will project the opposite argument, "How can you know there is a god".
I think we've covered this but...by having a spiritual experience. An argument from ignorance can't determine whether or not *some* people MIGHT have spiritual senses that are just as reliable as touch, smell, hearing, sight etc. Picture a planet of blind people. And one guy is born with sight. THey'll all say he's crazy right? Well you have a planet with millions who claim to have spiritual sight! Be a good investigator like I and many others did. Would you follow God if he existed?
This video seems to have some long term punch. It's drawing a lot of trolls :-). I'm having to remove several posts of 'I used to be a Christian but realized there is no God' garbage daily. hehe Let's see how long it takes to run out of atheists with time to create new profiles.
Thanks..I tried to say to check out my sounddoctorin site but it filters links I forgot. The sdstudio page has 'sound samples' with some of my songs. Enjoyed seeing some of your work! Keep it up bro!
man this video is annoying simply Because I was a christian by your definition. I...... believed that Jesus was the Christ put my faith in him for salvation by faith alone in Christ alone (not by works), had fruit in my life served on mission trips everything an evangelical Christian is and guess what? found problems in the bible that I could not reconcile and lost the faith. In this video you basically call me a liar. unless you can read minds YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT I WASN'T A CHRISTIAN.
uhh.wrong. MY definition is a person with a SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP. No just a person who believes. DEMONS BELIEVE. Wicked people GO ON MISSION TRIPS to lend credibility to themselves. With all the times personal motives that will surface in time.
By my definition you weren't a Christian because you didn't have a relationship with the spirit of God that was real. If you had you would have known it. Like Hebrews (which you supposedly believed) says. "Substance of what is hoped for."
(1) uhhh no you are wrong. If I would have said that I currently believe and didn't lose faith then then you would be saying that I was a Christian. it's only because some Christians believe that if you leave the faith you were never of the faith (like it says in first John 2:19) that you make this all knowing claim that I wasn't a Christian. well I here to tell u that I believed and lived the faith, and I used to say the same crap that you do to other people who claimed to not believe anymore
Wrong. I wouldn't KNOW if you are a Christian. I'm called to believe the BEST until PROVEN otherwise. But like John said "they went out from us BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER PART OF US".
You aren't saved as I said by 'believing'. Demons do that. Anyway I can see you have an agenda to just disregard THAT FACT and try to push your non-point so I'll probably just remove you if you keep it up. I'm not going to let you spread propaganda here.
by the way the definition of a Christian is A follower of Christ. lots of people in other religions have spiritual relationships, so how you got your definition I have no clue.
Definitions depend a lot on who's talking on such things. The word came from compound meaning 'little Christ' apparently a derogatory term initially that caught on because of the true aspects in it. Anyway a FOLLOWER of Christ is a DISCIPLE. WHY? Because that's what the original disciples did..followed him. One was not truly a 'little Christ'..though..he was a 'little devil'. :-) So again. You are in error. You can boast I have no clue..and I'll rub your nose in it. You like? :-)
This guy said "Censorship". The minute dopes say 'censorship' I don't even read any further because what THESE people want is just any arbitrary thing spewed at any juveniles whim. That isn't what's happening here. I review things FOR CONSTRUCTIVE CONTENT. You REPEAT an argument that's already been made/address..I remove it. So that the thread is USEFUL instead of just another SPEW that nobody is going to ever read. There you learned something for the next Christian thread you interact on.
I disagree with the point of this video because I don't find your definition of a Christian to be particularly useful.
Most people who claim to be Christian either don't subscribe to that definition or simply don't read their bible enough to know it. So, when I say I used to be a Christian, I well and truly mean it.
If you want to use a different definition that automatically excludes me, then of course I was never a Christian. My statement still holds with most people though.
All Christians used to not follow God. Many of them rationalized that there might not be a God or 'probably isn't' though there's no logical pathway to substantiate such a non-sense claim (classic argument from ignorance). So what's your point? You have to submit your life to Christ to follow him according to the only testimonies that aren't single witness about his words. So it's not even a valid type comparison. I don't see a point to it.
Just because the majority are deluded doesn't make a definition 'not particularly useful'. Basically you are saying that IF the majority decide to hijack a word in order to corrupt language then the others should just cow to their manipulation! No there is a historical Jesus and he's well documented in the four totally correlating gospels. I nor any other REAL Christian find it relevant that ice cold Christian fakes claimed to be Christian once. Touche'
Alright, but generally when people say they used to be a Christian they mean that they used to believe in and do Christian things.
It doesn't matter what your definition is; according to the definition I use, I used to be a Christian. You'd be wrong in calling me a liar. That was my only point.
If you want to continue arguing with a godless blaspheming heathen, you can PM me. I don't really want to hijack your video comments.
If you have a definition that isn't useful then I wouldn't call you a liar..just not well versed in how to make useful definitions :-). Read the post below where I talk about disciple vs. Christian. Disciples follow Jesus to try to learn more about him. Christian comes from 'little christ' and the only way to truly be that is to be IN HIM. (collosians 3 as in). Meaningless to do "Chrsitian things" then walk away according to the bible. Since bible=only cohesive testimony< I get def. there.
I'm saying my definition IS useful, since it's the one most people use.
I'm not even sure where you get this idea of a 'true definition'. Jesus may have defined the concept that you use the word Christian to describe, but he didn't define the word; words are defined by their utility in conversation.
You can use your definition in your videos, but expect people to get confused. It's obvious from reading the comments that they are.
Like I say it's just a more logical usage. We already HAVE the word 'disciple'. This is *clearly* defined as one who follows Jesus around learning about him, so to speak. RECALL that ALL the disciples DID NOT HAVE A FLYING CLUE what salvation was about! They saw their salvation and ...shrugged their shoulders and went back to fishing. Ok?
So why have the word 'Christian' mean the same thing? When to be a 'little christ' one MUST according to scripture be in RELATIONSHIP 'hidden in him'?
Well...no it's a unique title. So it's not like any other :-). It's normally used as I said to associate people to being followers of the teachings of Yeshua. And his teachings included things like being 'in him' and so on; a spiritual relationship. If people want to make up ANOTHER Jesus then they should make that clear when they wield their 'title'.
It still forms you of what people expect from you , and forms you in what you must believe in, rather than simply being yourself. In order to call yourself one, you must "reform".
Having no title but "fonna", is unique enough for me. I don't think you can get any more unique than that.
However, there will be label makers around who like to categorize people in groups, and of course different people will see me in their own personal way, depending on what title they are themselves.
Labels and what people expect of people isn't really something I care about. I try to get to know people for who they are, not for some label because often people misuse labels or even try to deceive people with them. So they're really pretty meaningless if you are trying to make an integrable evaluation of someone. I have no idea what a fonna is. :-)
uhh..sorry if I do a search for 'fonna definition' it gives me gonna on google :-). I've never heard the word so... why didn't you just say 'fonna is my name'..a name that doesn't mean anything in particular unless someone knows you and associates things about you to the name it would seem :-) At least it's an original name..great. But 'fonna is who I am...the person...'... is English your native language because..some things like that are unorthodox to me to read. Anyway no matter.
I don't see how it would hurt or help my position. My position isn't really subject to other people's experiences. :-) I mean if I woke up tomorrow and everyone in the world say "Duhhh..we..believe there is probably no God sooo...duhhhh..you should too"...I mean that would have exactly zero effect on me save I'd have nobody to fellowship with but him. Many experience some things and then face a 'desert' time though where God challenges them to stand in faith and grow. Be encouraged.
Hey, Bob, I went through a period of time where I said: "I used to be a Christian, and now I'm an atheist". I've come back to the Lord, though, and I'm with you brother. Was a child genius, and before I became an atheist I was an on-fire Christian who had the Bible nearly memorized and knew my facts back to front. Anyway, though, I walked away for a time, just due to doubts and drugs and sin- sexual sin especially. God has been merciful and all along he had me, and I've come back.
Thanks for writing. So you would say that in order to truly become an *atheist*, that you had to recognize that you'd never had a spiritual relationship that you could discern was something absolutely valid? And thus while you were doing 'Christian things' it was motivated by something societal or internal with you and not God's spirit? This is what I've been trying to help people see here. Someone realizing that doesn't nullify the possibility that *others* have real relationships of course
I think maybe I should revise that I would really have considered myself "agnostic". Atheism has too many obvious (to me) flaws. I don't know if my testimony helps or hurts your position, but when I was a Christian before, I was actually pretty on fire for the lord. I'll admit much of it then was the excitement of an imaginary game in my head that I knew I was good at, but some of it was genuine. DOn't know where I fit in, but I became EXTREMELY skeptical and cynical for a while.
Using the logic of Bob Weigel, no one can say they are a Christian. Instead, one must say, "I think I am a Christian." So the next time you use this argument, Bob, make sure you say that you think you are a Christian instead of claiming to be one.
It's hypothetically possible that God CAN reveal to someone that they are the HEB 10:14 example (Set apart and hence seen as 'forever perfect' by God himself). If you had a case we could entertain the thought that my claim is fallacious. Anyway you've made a classic logical bungle in your analysis. I tell people "don't claim you're saved unless you know God has shown you you are the Heb 10:14 person". So I fail to see any point here.
Your title is inflammatory, your analogy fails (ever heard of sampling? A sampler can sound exactly like a MOOG because it's an exact copy - w/o the electronics of a MOOG), your point is that there is no such thing as an ex-Christian but you never define what a TRUE Christian is.
Can we say "burned-out ex-hippie?" DOH! Wait, there is no such thing as an ex-hippie!
The title is in no way inflammatory, if you do not infer that it is in an offensive context. Actually, that's a good point, something that isn't a Christian can "sound" like one, but that doesn't make it one. I believe the Bible defines a true Christian so long as you can understand it's spiritual messages. Your witty remark doesn't count as a valid argument, but it's good to know you have a sense of humor. Peace.
Thanks for the encouraging words. And yes the title was meant to be related as a joke to the 'stupid animal tricks' thing. Atheists believe we are animals in general. So it's using that humorous association to transition to the topics of various common fallacies that atheists employ in their arguments. Not all atheists do it necessarily. And others BESIDES atheists definitely use similar fallacies. ie. people shouldn't read too much into it. :-)
It's still inflammatory because it implies that atheists are stupid. Why didn't you name it "confused atheist tricks" since you claim that ALL atheists who claim to be ex-Christians are NOT ex-Christians but merely CONFUSED about it? Wouldn't that have endeared more unbelievers to listen to your vid?
Because 'confused' wouldn't have had an association with the 'stupid animal tricks' joke. I already explained that. HOWEVER it IS often 'stupid' and if the shoe fits..wear it.
Stupid to me would include INTENTIONALLY employing fallacious arguments for the sake of deceiving people. I've met MANY like this. You confront them with the fallacy and the weasel around to using ANOTHER lame out...instead of dealing with their prior error. That proves that they are stupid, not confused to me.
PS noting that it's flat out stupid to see reality and turn the other way. Living for the moment and sacrificing eternity. That's...stupid. You can call it inflammatory if you wish. If I post the truth and it inflames people SO BE IT. Now take it out of my thread. Thanks.
Man, that describes 99% of all Christians I know. Weird how you say that and yet I feel you will not be "pinned down" in any argument because you will do precisely that. Even refusing to tell me what a "TRUE CHRISTIAN" (tm) is in THIS vid and THIS reply. can't be that complicated to explain in a few sentences, can it?
..not...sure. I was never a hippie. Not 'burned out'. Can you say 'presumptuous fool'? Listen mr. 'truthsurge'. 1) A sampler can NOT 'sound exactly like a moog' because 90% of what DISTINGUISHES a complex beast like a moog is the WAY it responds to REAL TIME CONTROL... mr. novice :-).
In other vids I do define what a true Christian is. Historical Jesus defines a follower of him. Watch the others and learn a bit more about synths before you try to act like you know something in that realm.
A sampler can generate a note (set of frequencies) that can sound 100% like a MOOG. A sampler can also employ the normal real-time effects as well. I suppose you're stuck in the 70s. Samplers can use filters just like the MOOG and yes, y0u can control them in real time albeit w/o knobs.
Back to religion instead of 70s synths...
Your main pt HINGES on what a true Christian is. Yet, you don't define it in the vid OR in your reply to me. Interesting.
I'm not here to speak for sounds, but since this is an open forum of discussion I'll see if I can't elaborate on the main point.
What a true Christian is someone who is a new creation by faith in God. They act on the faith and divine understanding through seeking spiritual guidance directly from God. They love knowing that when they feel convicted, it means they have the opportunity to grow closer to their creator, savior, provider, protector--God. As I said more about this is in the Bible!
Hebrews 10:14 says that God sees forever as perfect those who are set apart. IF one is TRULY set apart then there is logically no *seed* for them to become 'unset apart'. :-) TO THE UNBELIEVER, this is a hypothetically plausible state of being. You don't *have* to believe that a true Christian exists however there is no base to argue that it does not so...end of discussion mr. 'truthsurge'. I removed your insulting post suggesting that I'm 'afraid' to define 'real christian'. Stop it.
...yeahhhhh. But you are ignorant. Because like I say 90% of what makes these instruments great is NOT just a static tone that they can produce. It's the REAL TIME MANIPULATIONS of the facilities. It's a horrendous job to precisely lay out every aspect of that so that it simulates every aspect. A "sampler" can't do that. Duh. A virtual synth s/w piece possibly can. THIS makes my point all the more powerfully though. God is STILL going to look at the heart, not just what it DOES.
People have VARIOUS motives. Humanity has a HORRIBLE track record...warring, raping, stealing.... sorry buddy. Yeah our EVIL HEARTS are not good enough for Jesus. GOT IT? :-) You can't see the heart. God can. WHY ARE PEOPLE CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT A CHRISTIAN IS? Well..duh. They have evil motives that CAUSE them to want to twist the meaning of OBVIOUS things etc. I've dealt with so many people claiming to be Christian who DETEST the words Jesus said.
Hate to dissapoint you, but I've never raped or stolen. I also don't twist the meaning of anything OBVIOUS. I gotta go now. Your arguments have so many straw men, I'm afraid my computer will catch on fire.
Why would that 'disappoint' me? If you're straight up FOR REAL then HEY..you'll come to the truth. But right now from reading what you said above YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF A SPOKESPERSON FOR A HUMANITY THAT HAS A BAD TRACK RECORD. Did I say YOU have one? Dude..don't be a retard. I don't even know you. I said H-U-M-A-N-I-T-Y. !! Yea you gotta go after a lame non-constructive claim that I post straw men. Enjoy.
I think that most christians are confused then. By the standard definition i used to be a christian. Your thinking helps break up your religion into smaller and smaller denominations. keep up the good work.
There are a few options each person has...either lock arms with everyone (at which point even NAMBLA will apply to become a CHURCH I'm sure...) which is totally stupid, OR make up some arbitrary rules which winds up offending people who fit 'in between the cracks' in your rule system so to speak...OR discern as Jesus commanded. My Lord not only commands but offers a way to have clear vision as to who the real church is. There is NO division among us as 1 Co 1:10 states as I recall.
Would it be more accurate to say "I used to define myself as a Christian?" Because I think when people say that "they used to be a Christian" that is essentially what they are saying. The way a "real" christian is is up for debate. And you kind of sound like the dude from the big lebowski on a side note. I kept waiting for you to say "i'm the dude, man"
hehe..don't know what the big lebowski is. But YOU ARE CORRECT. That would be a more intelligent/accurate thing to say. The "used to be a Christian" is an obvious presumption that the person knew what it is to be a Christian though from even a casual reading of the bible it's obvious that being one involves a growing revelation filled journey. MANY of them just don't realize this and they presume. OTHERS obviously do it deliberately to attack Christians pretending that they 'saw'>bailed.
Science does not try to prove god doesn't exist. Science makes no such claim. Science only proves things of the natural world. Atheists don't try to insult people. People insult people. Atheism is only a definition of one not believing in god. Your argument is with the individual. I don't blame Jesus for Waco, TX, anymore than I blame icebergs for sinking ships. When I claim I used to be a Christian, it's not a lie, it's an interpretation. No different than saying "I thought I was a Christian".
Atheists are no more hateful than any other organization on Earth, and far less than most. Atheist never had a crusade, Atheists never persecuted anyone for their race. Atheism is just a word. People do the horrible things. I don't blame religion for killing tens of thousands of free-thinkers during the inquisitions, I blame people for that. Remember that definitions are not meant to insult, they are meant to educate. Please remember that, so we can all get along.
In this vid I'm addressing a specific variety of deceiver. These people ATTEMPT to establish by their own credibility that they were a REAL CHristian..but found out it was FAKE. :-). Of course this is a non-sense argument since all they are really saying is 'there is no such thing as a real Christian' but that has to be an argument from Ignorance. Nobody can prove that just because ONE person was deceived that means that all who claim to be Christians are deceived. It's moot.
i hate to correct you about what atheism is but the definition you gave includes agnostics and skeptics...they also dont believe in God. Sorry dont mean to embarras you ...but then again you should be used to it since you are an atheist
I was going to just remove this because it doesn't address who it's talking to etc. I'm quite confused by it as I look a second time at it. Which atheist are you addressing?
Don't try and tell me what I did or did not believe. I believed in God, Jesus, and believed I had a relationship with him. If you think you can prove that I did not, show me how, so that I can apply the process to everyone I meet.
@itsuyo211 Yes you are right about that. Are you inferring Christians do good things to "get into heaven"??
tnmusicman1 2 weeks ago
@sounddoctorin I agree with you completly but I have atheists tell me they had the "experiance" yet now deny Him and the only reason I've been given for that denial was " i got smart" or " I woke up". Silly, I know but how does one say " you really didn't ...." without sounding like a holier than thou??
tnmusicman1 2 weeks ago
@tnmusicman1 The one who is 'holier than' is the person who claims to be so ALL KNOWING that they know the experience someone else had to such an extent that they can say "I had the same one and it was fake". LOL! I mean talk about making one's self out to be GOD LIKE! Good grief! haha. That's the ultimate position of prideful foolishness. So I guess you just point out that logic and if they listen they do. If they want to hate you for speaking truth well..what's the point?
sounddoctorin 2 weeks ago
I was a christian in the sense that I was indoctrinated at an early age and taught not to question my beliefs. I was sincere and had a genuine desire to be a good person and live a life in christ. The problems began when I started to seriously look at the ethics of christianity, the logic behind some of its teachings, and the history of the bible's creation and the politics behind it. I didn't rebel against god, I just had to be honest about what I believed. it would have been easier to lie.
deejayalemus 2 months ago
@deejayalemus Indoctrinated and sincere are contradictory. You're one or the other.
A sincere person REALIZES when they are being indoctrinated and they QUESTION that. The are HONEST about their foundations and admit it to others. YOU WERE TAUGHT not to QUESTION? Ok that's as far as I read. Next.
sounddoctorin 2 months ago
@sounddoctorin people are usually indoctrinated at an early age, before they develop critical thinking skills. many, as a result of their indoctrination never learn these skills. you can be sincere about the things you were taught to be believe, especially if you had no reason to question them. is that really contradictory to you? your curt dismissal of my experience tells me you really don't care for an opposing viewpoint. next.
deejayalemus 2 months ago
@deejayalemus I'm just using logic. INDEED most are indoctrinated etc. SOME never learn those skills and just stay in their dumb religion. I meanwhile wound up trying to REASON using those skills and got rejected by the people in the environment I grew up in for the most part.
So this is all moot to me. There is NOTHING SINCERE I'm saying about eating the crap sandwich. Don't ya see? When someone tells you to believe the NATURAL answer is "WHY"? Each is responsible to evaluate.
sounddoctorin 2 months ago
@sounddoctorin thank you for being patient and explaining your point of view to me. at some point everyone asks the big questions, and the answers are definitely out there for the seeker to find.
deejayalemus 2 months ago
@deejayalemus Seek the truth and you WILL find it. That's what this whole video is about really. it's to call people to recognize that they've been distracted from God's still-small voice and have listened to the clutter people have put in front of them. When people say "I used to be a CHristian", they always mean "I used to kiss up to some system of man". It never means they experienced a real relationship with God and God said "I really don't exist.." POOF! LOL.
sounddoctorin 2 months ago
@sounddoctorin As you made your video to preach to the converted or to reign in the lost sheep, I understand that I am not your target audience. My comments were made out of passing interest, and your point of view is one I'm familiar with. We can agree to disagree, and I'm cool with that.
deejayalemus 2 months ago
@deejayalemus ? No I didn't. I made it to challenge people who are atheists claiming that they used to be Christians. I'm telling them that when they ADMIT not believing that there is anything spiritual, that this gives them exactly ZERO data by which to judge whether someone else might/might not know that there IS something spiritual going on and so on. ANd then I challenge people of course to look at the credibility of the bible and seek God and he will lead them to the truth.
sounddoctorin 2 months ago
@sounddoctorin So, you want me to admit that I don't know anything about spirituality? As an abstract concept I have some idea of what it means to theists, but I don't buy it any more than the concept of a soul. You can claim to know more than me on the subject, doesn't mean that your supposed authority on the subject is true. Learning about the Council of Nicaea taught me a lot about the creation of the Bible, and solidified my belief that it was man made from the get go.
deejayalemus 2 months ago
@deejayalemus This whole conversation is just baseless. You start it out making hand waving claims about some 'logic' you performed. Listen. The reason I basically kick arse and you eat grass in the field of logical debate, is that I come forth with actual reasoning. I say WHAT I find to be illogical. I post the logical processes! IN ENTIRETY! I don't leave people guessing. THE *knowledge* I'm talking about only comes from having an actual relationship. All else is meaningless guessing
sounddoctorin 2 months ago
@sounddoctorin you are right about this conversation being baseless... I admit that I did not organize my thoughts very well or articulate my thought processes behind my conclusions, mainly because I`d be typing hefty paragraphs and wasting time with dealing with the theistic POV (tedious in its own right). what the ***k are 'hand waving claims' and how does one `'perform logic`' exactly... thanks for letting me know we were having a logical debate, because I had no illusion that we were.
deejayalemus 2 months ago
@deejayalemus I don't argue opinions. It's a waste of time. Jesus defined what a Christian is. LOGICALLY this state of being either DOES, or DOES NOT exist in truth. (From the perspective of one who hasn't potentially had some absolute validation given to them). According to Jesus' definition you aren't a Christian and never were because John 10 says "HEARING" his voice is one of the qualifiers. If you heard it you wouldn't be denying it now right? So it's pointless.
sounddoctorin 2 months ago
Many atheists are hypocrites on this issue because while they accept Christians may become atheists, they do not accept that atheists can become Christians. This hypocrisy infects even popular atheists like PZ Myers, Atheist Experience, etc. Perhaps they are worried that upon objectively examining the evidence, atheism becomes the delusional position.
ChristianMission 6 months ago
if someone were to hand you a book saying "here are your set morals. here is your reward for following them and here is your punishment for not following them" i can see no situation where the person follows those rules with no thought of the reward or punishment. that is not being moral. that is following rules dictated to you. now if you believe in no punishment or reward and are still kind and decent to your fellow man then you are being moral. doing so to avoid hell or get to heaven is not.
itsuyo211 8 months ago 2
@itsuyo211 I don't see how any of this relates to Christianity. The bible isn't a set of morals. It's historical records largely. Those events were recorded...nobody handed the people who recorded them a book of morals. NOR would any logical person believe such a thing just because someone DID hand them one and say that. John 7:17 records Yeshua saying something very relevant. Why not read that some time and try again? God created us for relationship. If we want to do his will..then ...
sounddoctorin 8 months ago
@sounddoctorin ..then we see whether his words are true. And obviously his spirit bears witness of other things that are true that are for our edification also. This is I believe how the books of the bible were distinguished from those that are not so edifying. Many books through history have been created to help further someone's personal agenda etc. But God wants us to know the truth that will set us free spiritually. I challenge you to seek him and open your heart to that truth.
sounddoctorin 8 months ago
@itsuyo211work of jesus isnt for everyone. work is only for those that know the price for following jesus, the poor in spirit will go to heaven. the work is for the one that accepts the consequences and even knowing that, i would still tell people not to follow me. a real christian does great things in this world on payment of his own life. didnt every historical people that died do this? i accept jesus as a brother before and after i read because i feel exactly like those who died as he did.
SuperVice123 7 months ago
lol
hooplaster 11 months ago
In the description for your video, you said "I think we all would agree that a Christian is indeed a person who truly follows the teaching of Yeshua." I did very sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. Then, bit by bit, I came to the realization that it was flawed *as a religion*. (And yes Christianity IS a religion.) I still follow the core teaching of "Love thy neighbor as thy self",. Can someone who follows the teachings of Jesus be a non Christian? It doesn't appear so.
wireddavinci 1 year ago
@wireddavinci I'm not in a religion that men conceived. I'm in a relationship with God through his spirit that was in Yeshua. *Many* religions have sprung up that claim to follow Jesus. They always teach something contrary to the context of scripture though...strangely it seems. Once a man becomes the focus it's all downhill from there :-). ANYWAY if you follow it on your *own* then you haven't truly followed the teachings of Yeshua. Read it again. Pray this time for the spirit to lead
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
@wireddavinci actually if you practice the morales of Christianity you're not a christian having a sincere belief and a strong love and trusting God with everything you say and do is true christianity
sgtmjames 9 months ago
So you're against people not believing in something?
Atheists don't follow a moral code in a book, they don't pretend to be 'good' because they are scared to burn for eternity in hell.
An atheist will be good to his fellow man because he has humanity.
Isnt that a truer sense of morality?
helmwang 1 year ago
@helmwang Each person from birth only knows his own pain/pleasure until some EXTERNAL change happens. Internally that's all he knows. People get socialized by being threatened with alienation, punishment etc. Is that any credit to THEM? No. And in fact it's dependent on the society. Some parents don't discipline their kids and they turn out to be demoniacs. AND of course atheists in power positions vs. deists is the differences between millions dead and 10's of millions dead. hehe.
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
@sounddoctorin Theists in power vs deists in power? Seriously? Some of mankinds greatest atrocities have come from religion. The crusades, the 30 years war, European colonization of the Americas. Even the troubles in N.Ireland (Protestant and Catholics). There is no scarier sense of self-entitlement and self-righteousness than when, throughout history, someone has decided that something written in a book gives them the right to wipe out an entire people. I've not seen anyone pick up.. (cont. ^)
helmwang 1 year ago
@helmwang continuing, so what *is* your 'source' of morality? Self-righteousness? (you won't answer...of course. Because you know that has horrible connotations). WHERE did you get it when people like Stalin and Mao and pot didn't? DID YOU KNOW that in a non-spiritual universe there isn't even a source of choice? That all you do is a result of the laws of physics applied tot he prior state of matter plus some laws we don't know? :-) But in any case you aren't responsible for any of that?
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
@sounddoctorin Where did Christians get their morals during the 9 Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Ordeals, their treatment of Atheist aka heretics, I could go on forever. You'll probably make up some excuse for Christianity, go on.
colorblindvids 1 year ago
@colorblindvids Perhaps you missed the information in this and other vids. NOT ALL who call themselves a CHristian are. I ASKED "If people start a group called weigellians (after my name) and they torture puppy dogs as their main activity, would YOU continue calling them that if you knew me and knew that I had nothing to do with that?"
See...that's what YOU are guilty of right here. I'm not making up anything jackass. YOU are. Claiming people are xtians when they do the OPPOSITE of Jesus.
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
@helmwang
well we (Christians) donot fallow the bible because we are "scared to burn for eternity we fallow the bible because we love Christ and we love Christ because he first loved us by giving up his life for you and me. and it is good that you do good to your fellow man but "it is hard even for a righteous man to be saved" but it is not by what we as christians do that saves us its our relationship with Jesus Christ and if you want to know what true morals are then read exodus 20
guitarjudah 1 year ago
Christians really shouldn't be calling anyone else stupid.
Tab54o 1 year ago 11
@Tab54o Christians should tell the truth. If a person is stupid then a Christian should properly identify them as such. Seriously...dude you missed the joke. "Stupid animal tricks" was a show or something. Atheists think humans are animals. GET IT?? It's a joke son..a joke.... regardless nobody can tell you this in private since you have non-friends blocked so.. I'll block you since I can't tell you not to post irrelevant things in private. bye.
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
@sounddoctorin Humans are animals. We are mammals. Just because we are slightly more complex than a chimp (and I emphasise slightly), to say we are somehow above animals because we can read/build aeroplanes is silly. On a genetic level we ARE animals. We evolved from them. Although I guess this wasn't a solid theory in biblical times so we mustn't advance from that huh?
helmwang 1 year ago
@Tab54o Your right, sometimes we can't hel stating the oveus
Domodeath 1 year ago
Good point. To redefine God to something you can argue against is to not argue against God at all.
StarringEverett 1 year ago
@StarringEverett Yeah the whole concept of allegedly going and seeing what every other person has seen when they were supposedly Christians...but YOU recognized it was fake. That is so all fired arrogant and presumptuous. I can't think of anything more arrogant than to think your experiences are identical to everyone else's. That nobody else has possibly seen something deeper. That's just amazing. I FULLY believe that there are TONS of people who have submitted to God and seen more than me.
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
@sounddoctorin PS not your experiences obviously. hehe. Just speaking of a hypothetical 'your' there :-)
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
very good points made here!
1216saab 1 year ago
atheists are the anti-christ they are satans helpers they will be the ones who will be left on earth as the rest of us are taken by god to live and walk with jesus
94civiclxgrey 1 year ago
@94civiclxgrey If we didn't find your set of primitive, perverse, and frankly unbelievable fairytales convincing enough to discard reason and disregard everything we know about anything at all, then you were going to punish us forever, without mercy, for eternity on the crime of not being stupid enough to believe impossible nonsense for no good reason.
I know this is what you think God thinks we deserve, but you think it is what we deserve as well, isn't it?
Sounds fair to me.
steveb0503 1 year ago
@steveb0503 Steve i don't care if you are atheist.. you have your non beliefs and just like you I WILL LIVE IN MY FAIRY TALE IF I WANT TO BELIEVE IN GOD THEN I WILL, YOU AND YOUR "FRIENDS" WILL HAVE FUN HERE. GOD HAS HELPED ME I KNOW YOU THINK I AM CRAZY OH HOW CAN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE BE THERE AND DO ALL THESE GREAT THINGS FOR YOU WELL I HONESTLY DONT KNOW BUT I DO KNOW THAT I WAS HEALED WITH OUT MEDICAL ATTENTION.. again im sorry you've strayed hes only a prayer away Amazing things await..
94civiclxgrey 1 year ago
@94civiclxgrey Listen, I was just giving you crap because you act like WE'RE the ones who believe in something ridiculous, and that makes us bad, evil, or whatever. We think you're the ones with the delusion, but the difference is, we don't accuse you of being evil (or "in league with Satan"), we just think you're wrong. But the problem is, our beliefs inform our actions, and we simply feel you "beleivers" should show better reasons for your beliefs other than simply preference.
steveb0503 1 year ago
@94civiclxgrey yes and unfortunately they think things just happen to them that are bad when the rest of us can go around and have a decent life with some struggles eveyone has those but thats jesus keeping us on our toes we have to make the right choices he can only give us the option to do right whether we stay in the light or stray in the dark is up to us and my god have mercy on your souls when he returns i hope you find faith
94civiclxgrey 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
We'all should keep our religious views to ourselves. No one cares what you or I believe. It should remain personal. Don't preach. There would be very few wars if we all just shut up about religion.
alphabeets 1 year ago
"I used to be a liar, trust everything I tell you!" lol, that is a good point. Its kinda like that old " I am a liar. The last statement I made is true?"
SavortheSavior 1 year ago
Or the old Star Trek "Everything Harry says is a lie"..and then the computer driven guy hears from Harry Mudd "I'm lying".... as smoke starts to come out of his ears...
sounddoctorin 1 year ago
Comment removed
adam3251 2 years ago
Maybe I should haved watched the next video before I posted this.
adam3251 2 years ago
Hehe..thanks for recognizing that. :-) It's so common to past the NTS onto all kinds of things that *potentially merit* a valid definition that has *exclusive parameters*. Whereas there is no character definition for instance of what a Scotsman is, there most certainly *are* definitions of the development of a Christian. Once Matthew 18:15 is executed in an accurate way on a person they are to be treated as a heathen according to Jesus. Regardless of what they call themselves.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I don't get the reasoning or sense of this video.
A person stealing from others gets prosecuted and as he says bless you gets a ring-side seat in heaven. Good for him.
StopSpamming1 2 years ago
Your comment has nothing to do with anything that was said. Who was stealing? Huh? LISTEN! UNLESS someone has a CHANGE IN CHARACTER to where they are 'hidden in Christ' so that they are CHANGED and all that is left is the developed character that is set apart for HIM when it's their time to depart from this flesh, then they will NOT BE IN HEAVEN but will got o a place "out of his sight". That's the summary from the bible. Do you need me to walk you through those scriptures?
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
After a month..I think we can safely say someone doesn't want to be walked through the scriptures on that one. lol.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I hate the threads. I try to remove a post and click and nothing happens. I click again and remove someone's comment who loves the video. Lol! Well..whoever you were say it again I guess. What a dumb interface.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
jesus commanded his followers to give away all their earthly possessions.
That's why you rarely see any christians...
proudfootz 2 years ago
Actually he commanded ONE GUY who was hung on his wealth to give away all HE had. So you are incorrect. Check out the song 'feeding frenzy' on the sounddoctorin website (the com site on the sdstudio link. and song samples).
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
he also said we should hate our mothers and fathers, and do cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes if they cause us to sin
johnnythesailorman 2 years ago
Look..If you want *respect* here..first acknowledge the point that was previously made. Proudfootz was a totally representing the verse out of context. NOW ALONG COMES...you. And you do the *same thing*. You take a verse that talks about *hating the source of leading* in context.... and try to turn it into actually planning evil things you can do to people etc. 2nd Jesus posted logic. *IF* it were your hand that was keeping you from heaven then BETTER to cut it off! ie. do what it takes.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
Clever screen name. Love it!
ScrapGoldBass 2 years ago
okay right fair enough if your doing a christian series its not so bad because it shows kind of 2 points to an argument. But atheism doesnt fit a selfish agenda, im not selfish and im not an atheist just to fit my own agenda. Neither am i following the beliefs of others or following 'the crowd' i came to the decission by myself :). Anyway yer sound haha
Scouser6000 2 years ago
Actually a *true* follower of the Jesus historically recorded in 4 completely cohesive accounts..well one with multiple second hand accounts which makes it even less likely that any are fabrications at all... doesn't use 'stupid tricks'. They are 100% honest. I can't lie or I have to go tell people I lied so what's the point? I fully believe I'd go to hell if I just lied as many do. But *many claiming* to be Christians do use deceit to compel people to give to religious businesses etc.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
Actually "multiple second hand accounts" make it more likely to be either erroneous or fabricated not less.
myrmecia1977 2 years ago
Multiple WHATEVER accounts of this complexity make the odds of something proving that someone is lying IF they are extraordinarily high. I mean do the mechanics. Liars have an agenda. To twist things a particular way. The ...motivational analysis strikes out. Jesus telling people to not worry about tomorrow etc.?? Huh? Manipulators WANT people to store up for tomorrow so they can ransack them! etc. But anyway all the testimonies are non-copy yet completely cohesive. highly unlikely..
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
i'd like to know what problem you have with atheists? I respect your views/opinions/beliefs, i may not think they're right but i do respect them. Why put up a video insulting mine and others beliefs?
Scouser6000 2 years ago
To me *respect* means something. It means that I can see the credible pathway by which someone comes to a position. I don't *respect* people who 1) Adopt the beliefs of others willy nilly . That's stupid. 2) Believe something because it fits a selfish agenda. etc. etc. In posting reasonings people find it insulting. Ironically I'm about to do a followup to this series called "Stupid Chrisitan tricks" fyi though :-). I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I wanted to start of by saying that i was raised in a shielded environment in a catholic school. I was fed the bible, i went to church every week and prayed and put all my heart into it and believed it all. I knew no differnet and as i was so young i couldnt really sample the outside world in its rawest and most free form so it cant be argued that the opportunity was there for me to disagree with what i was being spoon fed because i had no counter arguments
Scouser6000 2 years ago
Roman Catholicism is full of contradictions. Your point? I'm erasing the rest of your stuff because it's already been dealt with in the video or rest of the thread. Please keep comments relevant and original. Thanks. -Bob
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
Its rare to find people who are proud that they censor their video comments.
myrmecia1977 2 years ago
As i became older and sampled everything the world had to offer in regards to religious stand points etc. i started to change my mind and through a long road of self discovery i came to the conclusion that i didnt believe in anything that i had done in the past and didnt believe there was a god (not to be confused with something higher than us out there). Can it be said that i wasnt a true Christian before i became an atheist?
Scouser5000 2 years ago
Correct. According to Jesus' definition, you weren't following him before you became an atheist. You were allowing a warped group to lay a bunch of unfounded stuff on you. That's not what Jesus said a Christian is. Furthermore his Revelation words via John tell us that he hates the teaching of the nicolaitans. Any group that installs a clergy/leity separation is nicolaitan. It means to subdue the common people. Jesus died to open the holy of holies FOR YOU!
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I take it a lot of Athiests go on YouTube.
TheNinetyFour 2 years ago
Hehe. Well these videos were kind of a 'probe' in a way. I titled it something that atheists could resist responding to and giving low 'star' ratings of course. Because it's the only way they know how to 'get back' at something they can't contest the reasoning contained therein. But it appeared from the initial burst of activity that there are about 700 really hyper-active atheists on youtube as of last year or so. Then after a day or so the view rate plummeted.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I really was a "christian", I mean a "real christian" as you say, I was even a "paster" of a church, but I had questions, questions that could not answered, I have read the bible, I did "know" god, but the questions were never answered. I am sorry but, "The Age of Reason" has started and I can only hope you will accept the truth, not lies or false storys.
LuciferTheEvilOne 2 years ago
Before I block this clown, I want to point out that MANY Satanists POSE as Christians just to try to discredit the church, obviously. NOTE how this moron can't even spell PASTOR..hehe...yet claims to have been one :-). MOST *real* pastors though don't remotely follow what Jesus said, so I can't call *them* Christians either. They are religious shop-owners. If you had any questions you wanted to ask you'd have asked them instead of lying about being a "paster". hehe. Loser.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I would like to chat or visit with you online somehow if i could or if you wouldnt mind. I too have a ton of questions and do not feel satisfied with just believing in something based on surface value. I dont know what to do..
dietbaby 2 years ago
well bill, if jesus was not the son of god, then is anyone considered to be a christian?
icedog141 2 years ago
1) Who is Bill?
2) You are asking something that's already been covered but since it's SUCH a popular question..once again on top it goes. READ. It's irrelevant because it's unprovable 1 way or the other. The word is *reserved* for those who follow this character whether or not you consider him to be hypothetical in your own evaluation. Millions of people say he's real so it *merits* a term reserved to describe the 'phenomena' even from a skeptic's perspective. Follow?
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
So, how do you know YOU'RE a Christian? What evidence can you present?
My favorite test that should definitively detect a "follower" is in Mark 16:18. "...if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them". Try that.
Of course, if you think that possibly this verse is FALSE, or if you think maybe you AREN'T a follower, then of course you shouldn't drink, because it would totally kill you.
RichardKrehbiel 2 years ago 15
Each person knows if they have a spiritual relationship. It is commanded that I not 'put the Lord your God to the test'. It never said TO drink the poison moron. It said IF one drinks it like..accidentally or like Paul getting bitten by the poisonous snake... that we will be delivered from the results of it by the power of his spirit. Now since you are giving deadly /stupid advice, I'm kicking you out. Bye.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
no a true believer wouldnt drink it because it is said in the bible and quoted by Jesus himself DONT TEMPT THE LORD UR GOD it means dont do stupid things because u expect god to bail u out and when he said drink the poison god was really saying that even though the enemy tries to hurt u in ways u dont even know or see he protects u u see the person that drank the poison didnt know he was drinking it. he was BEING poisoned
sprinic 2 years ago
@RichardKrehbiel
well that vers you are talking about isnt a test of salvation or chrisianity. as christians we are protected from these things when in Gods will. but if you knew the bible like you say you do you should also know that the bible says not to tempt the lord your God and if someone was to drink a "deadly thing" to prove God then he would be a fool. and to know how we as Christians know there is a God look around you at His creation and in His word seek Him and you will find Him
guitarjudah 1 year ago
@RichardKrehbiel dude,, your not supposed to drink anything of the sort if i did then you would return to the dust. what good would it do if you were silenced would the dust speak??? oviously not. the passage is a strength thing. i guaranty you wouldnt last a day in my shoes dealing with the poison i drink. real christians are atacked both by athiest and churches. who the heck are you??? you wouldn crush a soul with your mouth. everyone you fight here are lost sheep and you are a black sheep.
SuperVice123 7 months ago
Exactly..and according to Jesus the only way to be like him is to spiritually follow him. He said 'my words are spirit'. So BASICALLY to the believer... they see it that way. To the UNBELIEVER... they need to reserve IN their dictionary a *position of hypothetical viability* for a word that describes such a state of being *if* indeed it is a possible state. They have no hypothetical way to know. And since millions claim to be IN this place..hey... let's set apart the logical word for it.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
then there are like 10 christians in the world.
kavudiego 2 years ago
Jesus said the way is narrow. Look at the bible. There is always a *tiny* remnant who don't become arrogant and prideful and puffed up to the point where they can't hear the truth. Convinced their they *are* their own God..in essence. Probably not.. 10... hehe. But in Revelation God is going to have 144000 set apart that he is going to preserve and put his mark on to protect them from the curses therein. This is *spiritual Israel* as defined in Leviticus.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
what if a person was raised as a christian and truly believed at one point, but later realized that they were simply being subjected to their family's belief system and changed their mind about what they, personally, believed later on. then i believe that the statement "i used to be a christian" is absolutely legitimate. i only watched half of your video bc your keyboards get on my nerves lol basically who are you to determine what someone believed in the past lol
mysterynmayhem 2 years ago
The CHRIST of Christianity defined what it is to follow him. It denotes that a person has an actual spiritual relationship which they CAN NOT DENY!
Now if no such person EXISTS...then we *might* clearly see that..or we might not. Regardless the word has a RIGHT to maintain a place *in the language* that is PROPERLY DEFINED so long as *any* doubt remains. And one who admits they had no such relationship reveals they definitely do not fit IN the definition the Christ of Christianity laid out.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I hope you at least realize that this just is a tautology.
Your definition only holds if the bible should happen to be correct on these issues. Since the burden of proof is on your side, I and everyone else who honestly thinks about the topic defines "christian" in a more useful way, like "someone who believes this and that" and following this definition there are ex-christians.
GoosebusterT5 2 years ago
I have actual spiritual experience. It can't be potentially shared. So nobody cares about you whining and claiming that Jesus had no right to define what it is to follow him and there is NO POTENTIAL to share *proof*. EG> a person witnesses a murder. IS THE BURDEN OF PROOF on him? No. He simply testifies of what he saw. Dimmy. Why is this so hard for you people to get? WAKE UP! Look at all the thumbs ups on non-sensical statement below and the 1 stars. You people have '0' credibility.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
PS if this person doesn't stop posting dumb arguments I'm going to delete them. I just erased one where he's babbling about questions as to whether Jesus existed. Again that doesn't MATTER. I discuss the credibility of the bible in these videos. But let's say this *was* a 'pink unicorn' crackpot thing. And one guy claims to know the pink unicorn. And we define a word 'punicorn' to describe those following it. Those STILL following have a RIGHT to the name. Someone who said they ....
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
continuing... said they FOLLOWED but found out it wasn't real... hey. This means nothing. They should simply say "I was a liar. I claimed to follow something that I never actually SAW!!!!" Does that prove that the other person didn't see one that asked him to follow? NO! Leave the poor man/woman to their delusion if that's what it is. So long as they don't say the p.u. asked them to kill all the infidels or something. Then declare war against them. Done deal. No unicorn, no fear, right?
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
So you are saying god created people to be athiests?
I used to believe in god (religous indoctrination) until I questioned my faith and the morals and motives of god. There is a lot of evidence contradicting his existance.
Sumkrazyguy55 2 years ago 2
I thought I replied to this... This makes no sense. Where did I say that God created peple to be atheists? Some people are just too off the wall to figure out. -Bob
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
So I guess by your logic it would be inpossible to take a Mouge(spelling?) synthesizer(spelling?) and then replace it with other parts? Because if it were, you'd say it used to be a Mouge, but no longer is.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
hehe..it's moog but to help people pronounce it they came out with a "Rogue" synthesizer in the mid/late 70's sometime. Anyway first I want to thank you for posting something that isn't the typical response! I actually have to think because I haven't heard this 50,000x! :-) But quickly no analogy is perfect. And to talk about what you are talking about really doesn't fit because when a person enters into a spiritual relationship with Jesus they know him! So they can't honestly unknow him...
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
and continuing... the usual reply to this will be an argument from ignorance that no such state of being exists. But that is..an a from i. ...so let's not go there. There is even from an atheist position an hypothetical possibility that some people do have such a relaitonship. And if you look at the words of Jesus which defines what Christianity is, that's the only state of being that is indeed meaningful. So the only one he would call after *his* name.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
When I was a kid I became a born again Christian. I really believe I felt the Holy Spirit upon me when I converted. Today I believe the experience, that was basically just a feeling of sleepy calm, wasn't supernatural, but it took many years to get to the point I am today. There was no "unknowing". If such a relationship does exist, it's more of a neglecting of it, not a one moment. Do you believe that once someone has "found Jesus" they don't have to try anymore to remain with the spirt?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Being born again isn't a feeling. It's a spiritual transformation in which God's spirit begins a relationship with ours. And *if* that is real then yes people will persist to draw into that relationship. You didn't. So yours might have been a socio-religiously induced feeling. Whatever. Like I said it's an a from i to claim that this applies to anyone's but your own.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
Actually an argument from ignorance is when you say something is true because it cannot be proven false. I.E.- you cannot prove God doesn't exist, therefore he must, that would be an a from i. I did in fact persist in it for many years, and eventually began to fall away. I also do not claim to know what the experience of others are, only my own. Were they Christians? I think the only one that can answer that is themselves, and that it is POSSIBLE to know God and later think it was an illusion.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
If you admit you didn't have a spiritual experience, I'm just saying that you have no basis by which to judge that others didn't. You would be admitting ignorance and claiming it as 'information'. A classic 'a from i'. in the technical meaning of the words :-). What kind of fallacy would you call that then? I see many pages that don't even list argument from ignorance. Just use language intelligently and people should be able to figure out what you're saying..I say...
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
I don't believe I did, though I could be mistaken. I believe that if I didn't, then it could be that others were also fooled.
Ever been drunk before? What if you had a few glasses of champaign and had that experience of being drunk. Later you think back and remember you actions not being what other people described as drunk so maybe you just THOUGHT you were drunk. So you stop believing you were ever drunk. Doesn't mean you actually were not drunk that one time.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Jesus said 'if anyone wants to do God's will,then they will see whether my words are my own, or whether they come from the father'. So in order to find out, why don't you just spend some time praying and if there's no God then..what have you lost? :-) Ask him to show you your heart's motives and if your heart has ever been set apart for him. No I've never been drunk..never tried liquor. CERTAINLY others have fooled themselves. But it doesn't discount the possibility or real experiences.
sounddoctorin 2 years ago
It's a common argument that I have seen Christians use as well. They are just trying to make the point that their current opinion is somehow more developed than their previous.
I have also seen it used in unrelated subjects. An example from the video gaming scene, "I used to be a console gamer" (which implies gaming on a PC is superior) comes to mind.
So although you have brought up something very valid in this video, please don't pretend this is something only atheists do.
ufee 3 years ago 2
Nobody is 'pretending' anything. But the other common 'trick' is to try to equate things that have common aspects but aren't equal. In this case, the atheist has no way to know if there ISN'T such a thing as a real Christian who has a spiritual relationship. (Because IF you once had a REAL spiritual relationship, then you can't honestly say you are an atheist! :) ). But you CERTAINLY can KNOW that you once didn't believe *then* had a spiritual experience that confirmed to you God's existence
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Bob I'm going to buy a ketboard from you very soon.
footballceez 3 years ago
Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess...
PerianArdocyl 3 years ago
All day in your videos, you say, "How can atheists know there is not a god", and I will project the opposite argument, "How can you know there is a god".
Shortybus2 3 years ago 16
I think we've covered this but...by having a spiritual experience. An argument from ignorance can't determine whether or not *some* people MIGHT have spiritual senses that are just as reliable as touch, smell, hearing, sight etc. Picture a planet of blind people. And one guy is born with sight. THey'll all say he's crazy right? Well you have a planet with millions who claim to have spiritual sight! Be a good investigator like I and many others did. Would you follow God if he existed?
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
We HAVE FAITH...You have none.
footballceez 3 years ago
This video seems to have some long term punch. It's drawing a lot of trolls :-). I'm having to remove several posts of 'I used to be a Christian but realized there is no God' garbage daily. hehe Let's see how long it takes to run out of atheists with time to create new profiles.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Good Stuff! I'm a Christian Musician Myself!
digitaljosh 3 years ago
Thanks..I tried to say to check out my sounddoctorin site but it filters links I forgot. The sdstudio page has 'sound samples' with some of my songs. Enjoyed seeing some of your work! Keep it up bro!
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
man this video is annoying simply Because I was a christian by your definition. I...... believed that Jesus was the Christ put my faith in him for salvation by faith alone in Christ alone (not by works), had fruit in my life served on mission trips everything an evangelical Christian is and guess what? found problems in the bible that I could not reconcile and lost the faith. In this video you basically call me a liar. unless you can read minds YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT I WASN'T A CHRISTIAN.
gokuhawks14 3 years ago
uhh.wrong. MY definition is a person with a SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP. No just a person who believes. DEMONS BELIEVE. Wicked people GO ON MISSION TRIPS to lend credibility to themselves. With all the times personal motives that will surface in time.
By my definition you weren't a Christian because you didn't have a relationship with the spirit of God that was real. If you had you would have known it. Like Hebrews (which you supposedly believed) says. "Substance of what is hoped for."
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
(1) uhhh no you are wrong. If I would have said that I currently believe and didn't lose faith then then you would be saying that I was a Christian. it's only because some Christians believe that if you leave the faith you were never of the faith (like it says in first John 2:19) that you make this all knowing claim that I wasn't a Christian. well I here to tell u that I believed and lived the faith, and I used to say the same crap that you do to other people who claimed to not believe anymore
gokuhawks14 3 years ago
Wrong. I wouldn't KNOW if you are a Christian. I'm called to believe the BEST until PROVEN otherwise. But like John said "they went out from us BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER PART OF US".
You aren't saved as I said by 'believing'. Demons do that. Anyway I can see you have an agenda to just disregard THAT FACT and try to push your non-point so I'll probably just remove you if you keep it up. I'm not going to let you spread propaganda here.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
by the way the definition of a Christian is A follower of Christ. lots of people in other religions have spiritual relationships, so how you got your definition I have no clue.
gokuhawks14 3 years ago
Definitions depend a lot on who's talking on such things. The word came from compound meaning 'little Christ' apparently a derogatory term initially that caught on because of the true aspects in it. Anyway a FOLLOWER of Christ is a DISCIPLE. WHY? Because that's what the original disciples did..followed him. One was not truly a 'little Christ'..though..he was a 'little devil'. :-) So again. You are in error. You can boast I have no clue..and I'll rub your nose in it. You like? :-)
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
This guy said "Censorship". The minute dopes say 'censorship' I don't even read any further because what THESE people want is just any arbitrary thing spewed at any juveniles whim. That isn't what's happening here. I review things FOR CONSTRUCTIVE CONTENT. You REPEAT an argument that's already been made/address..I remove it. So that the thread is USEFUL instead of just another SPEW that nobody is going to ever read. There you learned something for the next Christian thread you interact on.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
I disagree with the point of this video because I don't find your definition of a Christian to be particularly useful.
Most people who claim to be Christian either don't subscribe to that definition or simply don't read their bible enough to know it. So, when I say I used to be a Christian, I well and truly mean it.
If you want to use a different definition that automatically excludes me, then of course I was never a Christian. My statement still holds with most people though.
criggster 3 years ago
I think I should clarify that I never use this as a point of argumentation because it doesn't really say anything about the truth of Christianity.
I would agree that the only thing it achieves is to make me sound condescending.
criggster 3 years ago
Oh, and one more thing, what do you think about Christians who pull the "I used to be an atheist" line?
Sorry about all of these long comments.
criggster 3 years ago
All Christians used to not follow God. Many of them rationalized that there might not be a God or 'probably isn't' though there's no logical pathway to substantiate such a non-sense claim (classic argument from ignorance). So what's your point? You have to submit your life to Christ to follow him according to the only testimonies that aren't single witness about his words. So it's not even a valid type comparison. I don't see a point to it.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Just because the majority are deluded doesn't make a definition 'not particularly useful'. Basically you are saying that IF the majority decide to hijack a word in order to corrupt language then the others should just cow to their manipulation! No there is a historical Jesus and he's well documented in the four totally correlating gospels. I nor any other REAL Christian find it relevant that ice cold Christian fakes claimed to be Christian once. Touche'
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Alright, but generally when people say they used to be a Christian they mean that they used to believe in and do Christian things.
It doesn't matter what your definition is; according to the definition I use, I used to be a Christian. You'd be wrong in calling me a liar. That was my only point.
If you want to continue arguing with a godless blaspheming heathen, you can PM me. I don't really want to hijack your video comments.
criggster 3 years ago
If you have a definition that isn't useful then I wouldn't call you a liar..just not well versed in how to make useful definitions :-). Read the post below where I talk about disciple vs. Christian. Disciples follow Jesus to try to learn more about him. Christian comes from 'little christ' and the only way to truly be that is to be IN HIM. (collosians 3 as in). Meaningless to do "Chrsitian things" then walk away according to the bible. Since bible=only cohesive testimony< I get def. there.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
I'm saying my definition IS useful, since it's the one most people use.
I'm not even sure where you get this idea of a 'true definition'. Jesus may have defined the concept that you use the word Christian to describe, but he didn't define the word; words are defined by their utility in conversation.
You can use your definition in your videos, but expect people to get confused. It's obvious from reading the comments that they are.
criggster 3 years ago
Like I say it's just a more logical usage. We already HAVE the word 'disciple'. This is *clearly* defined as one who follows Jesus around learning about him, so to speak. RECALL that ALL the disciples DID NOT HAVE A FLYING CLUE what salvation was about! They saw their salvation and ...shrugged their shoulders and went back to fishing. Ok?
So why have the word 'Christian' mean the same thing? When to be a 'little christ' one MUST according to scripture be in RELATIONSHIP 'hidden in him'?
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
"Christian" is a title like any other. I now have no title, and the person is still there.
fonna 3 years ago
Well...no it's a unique title. So it's not like any other :-). It's normally used as I said to associate people to being followers of the teachings of Yeshua. And his teachings included things like being 'in him' and so on; a spiritual relationship. If people want to make up ANOTHER Jesus then they should make that clear when they wield their 'title'.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
It still forms you of what people expect from you , and forms you in what you must believe in, rather than simply being yourself. In order to call yourself one, you must "reform".
Having no title but "fonna", is unique enough for me. I don't think you can get any more unique than that.
However, there will be label makers around who like to categorize people in groups, and of course different people will see me in their own personal way, depending on what title they are themselves.
fonna 3 years ago
Labels and what people expect of people isn't really something I care about. I try to get to know people for who they are, not for some label because often people misuse labels or even try to deceive people with them. So they're really pretty meaningless if you are trying to make an integrable evaluation of someone. I have no idea what a fonna is. :-)
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
"fonna" is who I am...the person.
I didn't think I had to clarify that for you.
Everything you said is pretty much the way I feel about things.
Titles are meaningless. The person isn't.
fonna 3 years ago
uhh..sorry if I do a search for 'fonna definition' it gives me gonna on google :-). I've never heard the word so... why didn't you just say 'fonna is my name'..a name that doesn't mean anything in particular unless someone knows you and associates things about you to the name it would seem :-) At least it's an original name..great. But 'fonna is who I am...the person...'... is English your native language because..some things like that are unorthodox to me to read. Anyway no matter.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
I don't see how it would hurt or help my position. My position isn't really subject to other people's experiences. :-) I mean if I woke up tomorrow and everyone in the world say "Duhhh..we..believe there is probably no God sooo...duhhhh..you should too"...I mean that would have exactly zero effect on me save I'd have nobody to fellowship with but him. Many experience some things and then face a 'desert' time though where God challenges them to stand in faith and grow. Be encouraged.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Hey, Bob, I went through a period of time where I said: "I used to be a Christian, and now I'm an atheist". I've come back to the Lord, though, and I'm with you brother. Was a child genius, and before I became an atheist I was an on-fire Christian who had the Bible nearly memorized and knew my facts back to front. Anyway, though, I walked away for a time, just due to doubts and drugs and sin- sexual sin especially. God has been merciful and all along he had me, and I've come back.
wanderingjew2008 3 years ago
Thanks for writing. So you would say that in order to truly become an *atheist*, that you had to recognize that you'd never had a spiritual relationship that you could discern was something absolutely valid? And thus while you were doing 'Christian things' it was motivated by something societal or internal with you and not God's spirit? This is what I've been trying to help people see here. Someone realizing that doesn't nullify the possibility that *others* have real relationships of course
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
I think maybe I should revise that I would really have considered myself "agnostic". Atheism has too many obvious (to me) flaws. I don't know if my testimony helps or hurts your position, but when I was a Christian before, I was actually pretty on fire for the lord. I'll admit much of it then was the excitement of an imaginary game in my head that I knew I was good at, but some of it was genuine. DOn't know where I fit in, but I became EXTREMELY skeptical and cynical for a while.
wanderingjew2008 3 years ago
Using the logic of Bob Weigel, no one can say they are a Christian. Instead, one must say, "I think I am a Christian." So the next time you use this argument, Bob, make sure you say that you think you are a Christian instead of claiming to be one.
lemur58 3 years ago
It's hypothetically possible that God CAN reveal to someone that they are the HEB 10:14 example (Set apart and hence seen as 'forever perfect' by God himself). If you had a case we could entertain the thought that my claim is fallacious. Anyway you've made a classic logical bungle in your analysis. I tell people "don't claim you're saved unless you know God has shown you you are the Heb 10:14 person". So I fail to see any point here.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Your title is inflammatory, your analogy fails (ever heard of sampling? A sampler can sound exactly like a MOOG because it's an exact copy - w/o the electronics of a MOOG), your point is that there is no such thing as an ex-Christian but you never define what a TRUE Christian is.
Can we say "burned-out ex-hippie?" DOH! Wait, there is no such thing as an ex-hippie!
TruthSurge 3 years ago
The title is in no way inflammatory, if you do not infer that it is in an offensive context. Actually, that's a good point, something that isn't a Christian can "sound" like one, but that doesn't make it one. I believe the Bible defines a true Christian so long as you can understand it's spiritual messages. Your witty remark doesn't count as a valid argument, but it's good to know you have a sense of humor. Peace.
airkami 3 years ago
Thanks for the encouraging words. And yes the title was meant to be related as a joke to the 'stupid animal tricks' thing. Atheists believe we are animals in general. So it's using that humorous association to transition to the topics of various common fallacies that atheists employ in their arguments. Not all atheists do it necessarily. And others BESIDES atheists definitely use similar fallacies. ie. people shouldn't read too much into it. :-)
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
It's still inflammatory because it implies that atheists are stupid. Why didn't you name it "confused atheist tricks" since you claim that ALL atheists who claim to be ex-Christians are NOT ex-Christians but merely CONFUSED about it? Wouldn't that have endeared more unbelievers to listen to your vid?
TruthSurge 3 years ago
Because 'confused' wouldn't have had an association with the 'stupid animal tricks' joke. I already explained that. HOWEVER it IS often 'stupid' and if the shoe fits..wear it.
Stupid to me would include INTENTIONALLY employing fallacious arguments for the sake of deceiving people. I've met MANY like this. You confront them with the fallacy and the weasel around to using ANOTHER lame out...instead of dealing with their prior error. That proves that they are stupid, not confused to me.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
PS noting that it's flat out stupid to see reality and turn the other way. Living for the moment and sacrificing eternity. That's...stupid. You can call it inflammatory if you wish. If I post the truth and it inflames people SO BE IT. Now take it out of my thread. Thanks.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Man, that describes 99% of all Christians I know. Weird how you say that and yet I feel you will not be "pinned down" in any argument because you will do precisely that. Even refusing to tell me what a "TRUE CHRISTIAN" (tm) is in THIS vid and THIS reply. can't be that complicated to explain in a few sentences, can it?
TruthSurge 3 years ago 2
..not...sure. I was never a hippie. Not 'burned out'. Can you say 'presumptuous fool'? Listen mr. 'truthsurge'. 1) A sampler can NOT 'sound exactly like a moog' because 90% of what DISTINGUISHES a complex beast like a moog is the WAY it responds to REAL TIME CONTROL... mr. novice :-).
In other vids I do define what a true Christian is. Historical Jesus defines a follower of him. Watch the others and learn a bit more about synths before you try to act like you know something in that realm.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
A sampler can generate a note (set of frequencies) that can sound 100% like a MOOG. A sampler can also employ the normal real-time effects as well. I suppose you're stuck in the 70s. Samplers can use filters just like the MOOG and yes, y0u can control them in real time albeit w/o knobs.
Back to religion instead of 70s synths...
Your main pt HINGES on what a true Christian is. Yet, you don't define it in the vid OR in your reply to me. Interesting.
TruthSurge 3 years ago
I'm not here to speak for sounds, but since this is an open forum of discussion I'll see if I can't elaborate on the main point.
What a true Christian is someone who is a new creation by faith in God. They act on the faith and divine understanding through seeking spiritual guidance directly from God. They love knowing that when they feel convicted, it means they have the opportunity to grow closer to their creator, savior, provider, protector--God. As I said more about this is in the Bible!
airkami 3 years ago
Hebrews 10:14 says that God sees forever as perfect those who are set apart. IF one is TRULY set apart then there is logically no *seed* for them to become 'unset apart'. :-) TO THE UNBELIEVER, this is a hypothetically plausible state of being. You don't *have* to believe that a true Christian exists however there is no base to argue that it does not so...end of discussion mr. 'truthsurge'. I removed your insulting post suggesting that I'm 'afraid' to define 'real christian'. Stop it.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
...yeahhhhh. But you are ignorant. Because like I say 90% of what makes these instruments great is NOT just a static tone that they can produce. It's the REAL TIME MANIPULATIONS of the facilities. It's a horrendous job to precisely lay out every aspect of that so that it simulates every aspect. A "sampler" can't do that. Duh. A virtual synth s/w piece possibly can. THIS makes my point all the more powerfully though. God is STILL going to look at the heart, not just what it DOES.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
"They thought they were christian but they weren't" so in other words, our own best effort, with mistakes, isn't good enough for Jesus. I got it.
dave4248 3 years ago
People have VARIOUS motives. Humanity has a HORRIBLE track record...warring, raping, stealing.... sorry buddy. Yeah our EVIL HEARTS are not good enough for Jesus. GOT IT? :-) You can't see the heart. God can. WHY ARE PEOPLE CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT A CHRISTIAN IS? Well..duh. They have evil motives that CAUSE them to want to twist the meaning of OBVIOUS things etc. I've dealt with so many people claiming to be Christian who DETEST the words Jesus said.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Hate to dissapoint you, but I've never raped or stolen. I also don't twist the meaning of anything OBVIOUS. I gotta go now. Your arguments have so many straw men, I'm afraid my computer will catch on fire.
dave4248 3 years ago
Why would that 'disappoint' me? If you're straight up FOR REAL then HEY..you'll come to the truth. But right now from reading what you said above YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF A SPOKESPERSON FOR A HUMANITY THAT HAS A BAD TRACK RECORD. Did I say YOU have one? Dude..don't be a retard. I don't even know you. I said H-U-M-A-N-I-T-Y. !! Yea you gotta go after a lame non-constructive claim that I post straw men. Enjoy.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
I think that most christians are confused then. By the standard definition i used to be a christian. Your thinking helps break up your religion into smaller and smaller denominations. keep up the good work.
Igotnogod 3 years ago
There are a few options each person has...either lock arms with everyone (at which point even NAMBLA will apply to become a CHURCH I'm sure...) which is totally stupid, OR make up some arbitrary rules which winds up offending people who fit 'in between the cracks' in your rule system so to speak...OR discern as Jesus commanded. My Lord not only commands but offers a way to have clear vision as to who the real church is. There is NO division among us as 1 Co 1:10 states as I recall.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Would it be more accurate to say "I used to define myself as a Christian?" Because I think when people say that "they used to be a Christian" that is essentially what they are saying. The way a "real" christian is is up for debate. And you kind of sound like the dude from the big lebowski on a side note. I kept waiting for you to say "i'm the dude, man"
ASHIUSX 3 years ago
hehe..don't know what the big lebowski is. But YOU ARE CORRECT. That would be a more intelligent/accurate thing to say. The "used to be a Christian" is an obvious presumption that the person knew what it is to be a Christian though from even a casual reading of the bible it's obvious that being one involves a growing revelation filled journey. MANY of them just don't realize this and they presume. OTHERS obviously do it deliberately to attack Christians pretending that they 'saw'>bailed.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Science does not try to prove god doesn't exist. Science makes no such claim. Science only proves things of the natural world. Atheists don't try to insult people. People insult people. Atheism is only a definition of one not believing in god. Your argument is with the individual. I don't blame Jesus for Waco, TX, anymore than I blame icebergs for sinking ships. When I claim I used to be a Christian, it's not a lie, it's an interpretation. No different than saying "I thought I was a Christian".
SmokeDawg420 3 years ago 2
Atheists are no more hateful than any other organization on Earth, and far less than most. Atheist never had a crusade, Atheists never persecuted anyone for their race. Atheism is just a word. People do the horrible things. I don't blame religion for killing tens of thousands of free-thinkers during the inquisitions, I blame people for that. Remember that definitions are not meant to insult, they are meant to educate. Please remember that, so we can all get along.
SmokeDawg420 3 years ago 3
In this vid I'm addressing a specific variety of deceiver. These people ATTEMPT to establish by their own credibility that they were a REAL CHristian..but found out it was FAKE. :-). Of course this is a non-sense argument since all they are really saying is 'there is no such thing as a real Christian' but that has to be an argument from Ignorance. Nobody can prove that just because ONE person was deceived that means that all who claim to be Christians are deceived. It's moot.
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
i hate to correct you about what atheism is but the definition you gave includes agnostics and skeptics...they also dont believe in God. Sorry dont mean to embarras you ...but then again you should be used to it since you are an atheist
mrluke13 3 years ago
I was going to just remove this because it doesn't address who it's talking to etc. I'm quite confused by it as I look a second time at it. Which atheist are you addressing?
sounddoctorin 3 years ago
Don't try and tell me what I did or did not believe. I believed in God, Jesus, and believed I had a relationship with him. If you think you can prove that I did not, show me how, so that I can apply the process to everyone I meet.
cappastrano 3 years ago