I don't like Pelé personally due to his arrogance, yet this doesn't fuel my following statement: look at the defences in Pelé's time and think very carefully if you still would call him the best ever...
And as I said, I don't like Pelé at all but I'm still being objective. It was no hard task to excel at the time of Pelé.
Pele is the greatest for two reasons: He basically solidified the empire of Brazil in World soccer, and he did all of this before "advanced training" and incredible advantage that these whiny wussy "privileged" players have today growing up. He had natural skills, not "skills" based on thousands of hours of private lessons, private camps etc
@vaibanez17 Another clueless fanboy. Pelé was part of a brilliant football generation in Brazil. Several of his teammates were even better than him, and in Brazil they are largely regarded as such
Are you saying that Messi wasn't "naturally skilled" and that he learned to play football because of "private lessons"?
@a11375 That's fine, you're allowed to have your opinion. Pele made Americans care about soccer in the 1970s, that has to be noted. That's not an easy task today, much less in the 1970's when soccer wasn't even on the radar of 99% of the people here. Also, if there were better players, then show me. I am not saying you are wrong. I would like to learn more about the history of soccer. Nothing here has to be condescending, I am willing to give it a listen. Who are these players?
@vaibanez17 Actually and according to FIFA's international poll it's not just my opinion, but the world's
Look for Brazil's Golden Era players: Carlos Torres, Nilton Santos, Garrincha, Gerson, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Didi, Tostao, all superb players, some of the best the world has ever seen. Garrincha is largely regarded as even better than Pelé, certainly he had better skill. Some of them played in tactical and defensive positions, so comparison here is not as easy as counting goals
@a11375 Pele was better than all of those players combined; just look at the facts: International Federation of Football History and Statistics named him the best player in the 20th century, all of the players that you mentioned only gathered a fraction of the votes that Pele had.
It's universal: Pele is regarded as the best player to step on the pitch by the vast majority of football community.
@Alibaba178 That's a VERY WEAK fact... I already showed you it's not about statistics. How do you measure ball control mastery, quality, elegance, game beauty, in-pitch smartness, bravery, leadership? By counting goals? By counting successful passes? By cups won? Of course not
The world has spoken. Several times. Pelé was one of the best, but hardly THE best
@a11375 what world has spoken? check "rsssf best of the best". everybody says ele is the best. the 30 ballon d or winners voted in 1999 and chose Pele, 17-3.
ball control mastery, quality, elegance, game beauty, in-pitch smartness are subjective to a degree, but Pele is more complete.fact.
in specific skills there are players who are better than pele and maradona, free kicks zico, passing platini or xavi maybe, garrincha dribbling, cristiano in speed etc.
@sptwood05 What world? THE WHOLE WORLD voted it, organized by FIFA and with Pelé actively involved in it. The greatest football poll ever conceived. It was not a lobby-driven poll and there were NO politics involved (unlike ballon-d'or)
And Pelé is indeed more complete, but he is by far less TALENTED overall than several other players, and TALENT is what we are talking about
@a11375 talent is not what we judge. then ronaldinho could easily be top 5 or something.
Internet polls are worth shit. RECENT players always win. if one was made now, Messi, Cr7 and Xavi would be top 10 EVER:
recent polls are not fair to players who played years ago. the only ones who can knowq is those who have seen both Pele and Maradona live. not from videos.
30 ballon d or winners voted. Pele-Maradona 17-3. sure it hurts maradona fans that footballers chose Pele by far!!!
@sptwood05 They had to cut his shoe for his swollen ankle TO FIT IN!!!! Google for images, you NOOB...
He could barely run and kick the ball. Only his EPIC will and commitment to his team and country made him play
WTF? 1990s Argentina was a MEDIOCRE TEAM, highly criticized in its home country. Besides, by the second game most of above average players were injured...
But a team always depends a lot on its BEST PLAYER.
so Messi and Xavi dont get any credit for the great success of Barcelona then.
so waht if they played in teams. You maradona fans ACT like Maradona played ALONE!!!
thats my point, Maradona played in a team too, both napoli who had several good players and argentina, who was reigning champion in 1982 and still failed to do anything!
Like we ve said a million times it is very hard to compare with highlights and videos when only 15-20% of Peles goals are available and in black and white.
All great players are followed by great titles. Not all have won the WC but all great players have something to show.
Pele had flawless skills, nobody has ever denied that. Many players have great technique and individual skills. The ultimate test is TITLES. thats why teams buy players. and No1 is the World Cup.
@a11375 as for 1986, dont forget River Plate was World Champion and Copa libertadores champion with plyaers like Pumpido, Ruggeri etc. so where is the mediocre level of argentine football?
argentina is not belgium or bolivia or japan as some people try to convince us. it never was.
sure brazil had great players in peles era but so did the BRAZ LEAGUE. Pele OVERCAME all his competitors of that era in and out of Brazil.
Everybody knows that in World Cups in Latin America Europeans dont do that well. Argentina had an advantage in 1986 over euro teams. Plus they were aclimatized played for many games before the final in the altitute of Mexico City.
Germany was playing in lower altitute cities and only in the final went to Mexico City. Argentina was there since day 1. big difference
Look at Messi now!!! his stats are pretty amazing!!! stats are one way to show greatness.
when a player has an average of one goal per game and one assist per 2 games at the highest level, becomes top scorer in UCL every year and many more it sure means something.
cups won? thats what matters!! are you stupid? THAT is why TEAMS buy players, to get them trophys!!! not to show off joggler skills!
@sptwood05 In a TEAM game stats are of mild importance, because they are the result of the whole TEAM production!! For example, if Pelé didn't receive the ball both precisely and often, he would be a far less impressive scorer. This is pretty obvious stuff...
And no, cups won is NOT a key to compare players, you NOOB. Otherwise awful Camoranessi (1 WC) would be a better player than Cruyff (0 WC)
@a11375 Pele scored goals in every way and gave many goals too. in 1970 he gave 6 assists in 6 games for example.
Peles teams disappeared after he retired. fact. hahaa was Camoranesi ever even the MVP of his own team? Pele was the MVP of Brazil and best player in the world for years and years. please LEARN how to COMPARE!!!
@sptwood05 Dude why dont you READ what I write? I NEVER compared Pelé to Camoranesi (ROLFMAO) I just said that you can't compare players by cups won, otherwise Camoranesi (won 1 WC) would have to be better than Cruyff (won no WC), which would be 100% nonsense
@a11375 nobody compares ONLY by titles won. But titles show something.
Is it a coincidence then that OF ALL players in history ONLY one, Pele has 3 world cups and 32 official titles in total(record) and at the same time 1280 goals and at the same time won at 17 years old, and at the same time considered athlete of the century 3 times???
@sptwood05 No, not a coincidence: as I have said MANY TIMES ALREADY, Pelé was part of a GOLDEN GENERATION. Not such a thing has EVER happened around the globe
With Pelé in the pitch and Garrincha in decline, Brazil SUFFERED ITS WORST PERFORMANCE EVER in 66. So OBVIOUSLY he was not the "one man band" that fanboys claim him to be
@a11375 pele on the pitch in 1966? just count the minutes he was without injury. only a few minutes in the first and last game. in the second he did not play.
@sptwood05 He WAS in the pitch and did poorly. Benching out due to a mild injury in such highly CRUCIAL times is just weak. Some people say that he was trying to protect his own myth. That he saw how things were going downhill and chose to go the easy way: "Not my fault, I only played a few minutes, it's my teammates who are nothing without me"...
Maradona played the ENTIRE 90 WC in one leg. He never quitted. This is what it takes to separate a great player from a true legend
@sptwood05 LEARN YOUR STUFF, it was a minor injury: the coach was preserving him for later, and all Pelé was caring for was his own status and being selfish as he always was
It was nothing as Maradona's injury, which became WORSE with each WC game. Yet he played anyway, even risking his career
@a11375 you are so stupid you dont get it. Brazil was disorganized in that world cup and did not plan well. they thought they would beat Hungary, they had Garrincha in anyway.
minor injury? who the fuck are you to say if Pele should have played? Coaches always want a player to be fit in such games. the game vs Portugal was a much tougher one so obviously they wanted Pele as fit as possible for it.
Same happened with Zico in 1986, he was indeed injured. but he could play not like Pele
@a11375 you are so stupid you dont get it. Brazil was disorganized in that world cup and did not plan well. they thought they would beat Hungary, they had Garrincha in anyway.
minor injury? who the fuck are you to say if Pele should have played? Coaches always want a player to be fit in such games. the game vs Portugal was a much tougher one so obviously they wanted Pele as fit as possible for it.
Same happened with Zico in 1986, he was indeed injured. but he could play not like Pele
@a11375 you are so stupid you dont get it. Brazil was disorganized in that world cup and did not plan well. they thought they would beat Hungary, they had Garrincha in anyway.
minor injury? who the fuck are you to say if Pele should have played? Coaches always want a player to be fit in such games. the game vs Portugal was a much tougher one so obviously they wanted Pele as fit as possible for it.
Same happened with Zico in 1986, he was indeed injured. but he could play not like Pele
@a11375 and not only germany but also england in 1986 WC was not aclimatized to Mexico City.
England had only played in Mexico City 4 days before the argentina game.
Argentina had already played its first game there 20 days before. England was playing in Monterrey, only 500 meters altitute. so as you see things were pretty convenient for Argentina.
@sptwood05 And you just showed that you are just FULLY ignorant in sports: cocaine RUINS your skills, it does not IMPROVE them
You are the biased fanboy who (unlike the WHOLE WORLD) is not willing to accept Maradona's status as a legend. In the end, having exhausted all your false arguments, you resort to childish insults about the tragedy of drug addiction. Shame on you
@a11375 sure whatever you say. maradona wasnt that much of a leader before his cocaine years. a total flop in 1982 world cup. and won just one argentinian league from 1976 to 1982.
failed in 3 out of 3 copa americas.
nobdy said maradona was a bad player. read my comments you moron! Simply Maradona was never in the level of Pele. Ask anyne who has seen them both live? the answers are 95 to 5.
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
@a11375 typical maradona fan. you know its 25 years since maradonas heyday, and many things have changed. more years separate Maradona and messi than maradona and pele.
i said before: if Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro and other players of small physique dominate, so would Pele who could run 100m in 11 seconds with ball and could jump like an NBA athlete.
@sptwood05 That's EXACTLY what I have been saying all along, can't you fucking read? 1950s and 1980s football are way easier to compare than 1980s and 2010s'
And I AM a Maradona fan and also a Pelé's fan, just not a fanboy of either one, I like to put things into perspective and study FACTS
@a11375 if defenders were better in the 80s then they would be a lot better today and Messi would be a lot better than any other player. but thats not how it goes.
quality can be found in any era.
like i said internet polls mean shit.
Even Menotti says Pele is better than Maradona. he knows better.
@sptwood05 Another of your claims without any knowledge of the underlying FACTS. Menotti has a PERSONAL FEUD against Maradona since many years!!
Anything he says must be disregarded as it comes from personal hate...
And defenders could be slightly more skilled today than in 80s. But defense as a whole was more effective back then, because violent stoppers were barely punished at all
Rule enforcement by referees has improved a lot ever since
@a11375 haha we see how much violent stoppers are punished today. Pepe should have gotten like 3 red cards in the 2-2 classico. ujfalusi, van bommel and others still go unpunished today.
@sptwood05 Sheesh... In the 80s people made a CAREER out of fouling and ruining other players' legs and careers. Gentile NEVER saw a red card for kicking like a mad donkey... they only sent him off ONCE for grabbing the ball....
In the 80s Messi would have got his legs injured and even broken in a short time
Football violence IS punished MUCH HARDER today than in 80s... there will be always a few that get away with it
@a11375 You can't deny the fact that players now days have access to state-of-the-art training programs and facilities that no doubt help them improve tremendously, not to mention, the astronomical advancements in sport-science and human biology thanks to the advent of computers.
Computers didn't even exist 50 years ago; just imagine the world back then. It was primitive.
@Alibaba178 It's ALWAYS about 100% natural skill. You have no idea how player recruitment works. They don't waste time in improving unskilled ones, they only chose the naturally talented. Pelé, Maradona and Messi were incredibly naturally skilled when they were kids
Hi tech training and nutrition can improve speed by a tiny bit, and increase stamina, strength, etc. It will NOT improve ball control, game overview, smartness, leadership, etc. Those are inborn
@a11375 by the things you say about nutrition and hi tech training, you prove that Pele would be even better in todays game.
skill is what matters. look at players like Xavi or Guardiola in his days, not the greatest physical presense, nothing like Pele, but they still excelled at top level football.
people dont look for excuses. Pele would always be top level. a player with such athletisism and without flaws will always be great.
@sptwood05 No discussion here. But you are missing something else: those slow, shy and clumsy defenders would ALSO be much better nowadays. In fact most of them would not even be playing today: football recruiting is MUCH more demanding now
A slighly faster and stronger Pelé would be facing MUCH MORE skilled, trained and professional defenses than he did back then, so overall balance would be AGAINST HIM
As many have said, an improved version of Pelé would not look so good today...
@a11375 hahaha defenders. you talk like if defenders are super skilled players. maybe full backs have better control: zanetti, maicon, roberto carlos etc, but in Peles time there was nilton santos(botafogo), Suurbier, Breinter, Facchetti and of course CB like Bobby moore, burgnich and so many more.
haha so PIQUE; or Ramos or Dani Alves or Ferdinand are not clumsy??? bullshit!! even Alex Ferguson said recently that Pele would be amazing even in our times. only maradona fans support what you say
@sptwood05 The real football defense techniques as we know today started in the mid 80s. Before that, defense was simply left for the less skilled of the team
The changes in defense training and strategies steeply decreased the average goals per game. So yes, today's defenders are VERY skilled and highly effective in their own stuff
And Pelé would be good today, but he would be far less amazing than he was in his time
@a11375 ha, ha, ha. Against the geniuses there are no efficient defenses. At any time. Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Messi, each in their own time, are out to prove. By this they are geniuses. You know what was playing in South America at the time that skin played? Extremely violent. The judges allowed it. Pelé is the best and complete: dribbled well, kicked well, head well, passed the ball well, and caught up in goal (he was the keeper of the line. took 03 penalties in career)
@AntonioCDSPorto That's misleading. 50s-70s defenses didn't stop Pelé. TODAYS defenses most likely would
But defense was a lot more effective in 80s than it is today: it had become a fully developed position already, and they were BRUTAL, something today's players are not allowed to be
so no doubt that today's Maradona would be even more amazing than in 80s
And again, this is not about completeness, but about TALENT
@a11375 talent by itself doesnt mean anything. Many playesr can claim they are the most talented!!!
The big test is to stand the difficulties of a professional career and achieve things in time.
talent is just excuse for underachievers.
How would they? Pele had every possible skill, even Messi does not. can Messi head, score as many free kicks as Pele? Bicycle kicks? both feet? still Messi scores a lot. No defender can match a FLAWLESS player like Pele
@a11375 you are stupid. haah LUCK??? that great GENERATION you mention played football before Pele(Nilton Santos, Didi, Gilmar) and after Pele( Jairzinho, Rivelino) but achieved nothing!
All these legends played in the brazilian league and Pele BEAT them. All these legends never won Cop Lib, Int Cup and were never National Treasure, or considered the best player in the world. only Pele and Garrincha for a while where.
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of course I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranoia he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
@sptwood05 You didn't HAVE A CLUE about Menotti's bias and yet you took his word for granted. Do you know anything about these guys hidden motivations? Of course NOT...
It's always easier to pick someone who played before your own era than someone who came afterwards because it is much harder to admit being shadowed by someone younger... it makes all your efforts look futile
@a11375 "And again, this is not about completeness, but about TALENT"
See the video: Short disconcerting dribbles, no different than Messi or Maradona does or did, well-aimed shots from anywhere, all the way and in any event. Goals, many goals. THIS is TALENT
@AntonioCDSPorto plus Pele was skilled with both feet. you couldnt tell if he was left or right. he was a perfect header, scored 2 in world cup finals and so much more.
Pele could score in every way. he scored 1100 goals for Santos. in the same time the second scorer Pepe had only 400 goals. and Pepe was a good player himself.
the achievments of Pele noone has even come close.
If it were that easy many players would have Peles achievements.
No, I am just adding some perspective: 50s' and 60s' geniuses would have been much less amazing in 80s, and 80s geniuses would be even more amazing now
@a11375 bullshit. defensive system was introduced in 60s: CATENACCIO by Inter of Herrera.
football systems and trends make cycles. 10, 15 years ago football was again defensive, now it is offensive, we see many high scores, 8-2, 7-0,1-6 in premier league, 10-0 in dutch league, 8-0, 2-6 in la liga, 4-0 in CWC Final and so on.
hahaha VERY SKILLED?? give us a break! skilled players always made fools of defenders.
footballers learn their skills in childhood until late teens
@sptwood05 Catenaccio is just ONE tactic of many. It was "invented" in the late 40s, by the late 70s it was obsolete. Herrera's catenaccio in 60s (what you are referring to) was just a short-lived variety
Mixed and sweeping zone tactics were raised to their prime in the 80s and with some changes, they are still in use today. Defenders had to have specialized stopping skills, speed and toughtness
This, plus full use of violent fouling, made 80s defenses MUCH more effective than 50s
@a11375 violent fouling exists always. even know with all the yellow cards and post match punishments. like I said look at Pepe, in front of the whole world watching, and he does those violent fouls, and is unpunished!
In peles times there were very violent teams, especially in Uruguay and Argentina. Estudiantes in late 60s was one of them, players even getting arrested during games.
@sptwood05 Your claims ALSO have a underlying hypothesis: when you COMPARE players from different eras there are respective CONTEXTS (team lineups, defense strategies, motivations, coaching, etc.) that must be carefully weighted up
Your IMPLIED hypothesis is that you can safely disregard such contexts and make a conclusion out of thin stats. This hypothesis is just DELUSIONAL and makes you look like a complete CLUELESS noob
@a11375 anyway you cant really cmpare SYSTEMS with so many rule changes. Backpass rule, offside rule only if you are part of the play now, yellow cards, accumulation of yellow cards, direct red card for foul from behind etc etc.
fact is that MOST of the ALL time legendary teams and players are from Peles era. fact. dont make me name them.
star players in our times are protected much more by referees. fact. in 1966 Pele received no protection at all. fact.
@sptwood05 That's why I am NOT comparing SYSTEMS, but PLAYERS. I am just NOT discarding away the CIRCUMSTANCES of each era's game, as most fanboys are eager to do just to see his hero reign unchallenged at all costs...
@a11375 in addition to the best players, from defenders(Moore, Beckenbauer), goalkeepers(Yashin, Banks), and many more, and teams, also the best world cup was in 1970.
the WORST world cup, of low level is 1990. shit performances.
each league has its characteristics. Italians are more defensive, and spanish and english and brazilian more offensive. but if you see history MORE OFFENSIVE teams become champions: Real Madrid, Liverpool, Ajax, Barcelona, Brazil, Germany.
@sptwood05 Those are not facts. For worst WC ever, I've also heard 94 or 06. For best one, 70, 82, 86 (Maradona, Sánchez, Francescoli, Platini, Matthaus, Butragueño, etc.)
I am yet undecided, as it's just not a matter of counting goals or big names
@a11375 LOL, Messi? You didn't know that Messi would've have been the way he is today without the technology and medical advancements that have helped him?
Do some research on his hormone growth augmentation; without technology, he would have 6" inches shorter, and most definitely a total different player.
@Alibaba178 Look at the videos of Messi as a kid: he was already faster, smarter and much more skilled than the other taller, heavier and even older kids, which themselves were well above average players. His supposed hormone treatment made him more suitable for admission into professional football but did nothing to improve his skills, which were inborn
@vaibanez17 Agree. Brazil had never won a World Cup before Pele, even when they hosted it on their own turf in 1950, and lost to Uruguay in front of 200,000 people at the Maracana.
There is no doubt that Brazil's golden age was during Pele's time (1958-1970), after Pele had retired, Brazil didn't win a world cup convincingly (penalties in 94, and underdogs as 02).
@Alibaba178 Not true. Pelé did not even reach the second stage of the 66 WC, in Brazil's WORST performance in ANY WC. Fanboys put the blame on Portugal's and Bulgary's fouling, but Maradona was MUCH MORE BRUTALLY beaten in the 90 WC, and Argentina nevertheless reached the FINAL game. Truth is, Garrincha was badly injured, Gerson played terribly and Jairzinho played in the wrong place. Pelé was NOTHING without them. But with Gerson and Jairzinho in good shape Brazil won the 70 WC
@a11375 maradona did not face that great teams in the early face of 1990 wc. in the knockout Goyco saved Argentina, not maradona. Brazil faced the best portugal of all time in 1966, and pele was injured in that game plus the first one. in the game vs hungary he didnt play at all and BRAZIL LOST. if they had won that game or drew they would have gone through, so what you are saying is inaccurate.
@sptwood05 You are the one changing FACTS to suit your needs: Brazil lost to Portugal with Pelé on the pitch!!
Argentina faced Brazil, Yugoslavia, Italy and Germany. Except for the finals, Maradona was brutally kicked in ALL games
His ankle was so swollen they had to cut his shoe. Any other player (Pelé among them) would have begged to be sent to the bench, but Diego demanded to play and he was key in every game, specially in Argentina's win over Brazil
@a11375 not changing anything. of course pele played vs portugal, but injured!
he asked to plya although not fit from th bulgaria game(thats why he was out with hungary)
adding to that he got hit by the portuguese persistently. he continued the game walking on one foot, brazil was playing practically with 10, no subs allowed!
@a11375 hahaha jairzinho played in 1974 WC and did nothing. Jairzinho won shit at club level. same with tostao, gerson, rivelino.
look at their brazil stats and their career titles at club level. nothing compared to Peles. Pele was the leader of Brazil, you cant convince anyone about otherwise. get over it dude!
@Moncho1234 but it was a hardly impressive brazil. the only spectacular brazil was when Pele played. in the games Pele missed in 58, in 1962 and 66 Brazil was harldy impressive.
nobody recalls the 1962 brazil champion team as spectacular.
@sptwood05 You have a good point, which I don´t share. He was too young in ´58, that was Didi´s team. He was out in ´62 and Garrincha shone. In ´66, besides Pele´s injuries many new great teams emerged (Ussr, Portugal, Germany, and, why not, England). His real and personal time as a superhero had to be waited until 1970. Beware, someone is marking your comments as spam.
@sptwood05 Jairzinho was one of the best players of all time. A top scorer and record man. It is just your noobish fetishism with "statistics" what does not let you appreciate that FACT.
You like the so called "football experts" lists? He is ahead of ZIDANE in World Soccer Magazine's one...
You just PROVED what I said: stats without context blur facts and lead to incorrect conclusions. Please stop looking into the stats sheet.. you are making yourself look like an American
@sptwood05 Did nothing? Rio de Janeiro-Sao Paulo Tournament 62, 64, 66, Rio de Janeiro Tournament 61, 62, 67, 68, Guanabara Cup 67, 68, Taca 68
This is DESPITE Jairzinho playing in the wrong field position for 11 years, Garrincha going down due to alcoholism, etc...
And Pelé's teammates in Santos were also some of the world's best: Pepe, Zito, Lima, Coutinho, Gylmar (best Brazillian goalkeeper of the century), Mengalvio. All of them are legends
haha Mengalvio legend with just 13 caps for Brazil??? LOL
hahahahahaha Lima had 6 CAPS for Brazil. SIX. and only was in 1966 squad! legend yes suuuuuure!
even Pepe had only 41 caps for brazil.
even Coutinho and Pepe were mostly in the bench of Brazil. Didi, Vava, Garrincha and after Jairzinho Rivelino , Tostao, Gerson were the regulars. none of those played in Santos.
@sptwood05 Have you ever heard of Maradona? He was EXCLUDED from Argentina's National Team for the 78 WC
Messi? He was benched several times for no reason, even for a half of the 06 WC
Palermo? One of the 5 top scorers in Argentine football history. He played only a few times in the National Team...
Cut the crap now: knowing things is not just a matter of having access to information, it requires intelligence and wisdom, and it's obvious by now that you don't have much of either...
Maradone mejor que pele? jajajaj pele tiene mas de 1200 goles y 3 mundiales....
es gracioso que digan que maradona es mejor xD fue un exelente jugador eso todos lo saben pero no me vengan con pavadas de decir que es mejor que pele
@benurio Tu forma de evaluar no elige al mejor, sino que marca un perfil de jugador que de hecho solamente pueden llenar delanteros (por la cantidad de goles) brasileños (por las copas ganadas en que tuvo la fortuna de figurar). El mundo del fútbol es, afortunadamente, mucho más amplio y rico que eso.
@Moncho1234 tambien lo digo por la calidad de jugador,regates,inteligencia,trabajo en equipo y todo eso
En chile.Elias Figueroa gano 3 veces el premio al mejor jugador del mundo y era defensa.. asi que solo por hacer goles tengo claro que no podria haber ganado los premios
pero aun asi pele era un jugador completo por donde se le mire por eso es y sera siempre el mejor jugador del mundo aunque a los argentinos con su orgullo que no deja ver mas aya de sus ojos no les guste aceptar
@benurio ¿Sólo los argentinos? La encuesta online de la FIFA para el Jugador del Siglo lo dio vencedor a Maradona por 53%. Pelé sacó el 18%. Votó todo el mundo. Pelé perdió hasta en Brasil...
Lo que no les deja aceptar la realidad a los chilenos es su eterno complejo de inferioridad
Y Figueroa sólo ganó UNA vez el premio al mejor jugador del mundo. El resto fueron premios locales o regionales
@benurio Figueroa era un fuera de serie, pero no tuvo la suerte de acompañar un momento fulgurante de la selección de su país, como le aconteció a Pelé. Calificar a un jugador por los equipos en los que alternó, o por la cantidad de goles convertidos es injusto con respecto a otros que juegan en distintas posiciones, o en clubes o seleccionados menos afortunados.
@Moncho1234 IN my opinion Ronaldo (Brazilian) and Romario were both better than Maradona.
MAradona even says that Romario is the best attacking player ever.
I dont know about Pele. - Seeing this vid thought it looks like he had everythign Romario and Ronaldo had combined. (Ronaldo's dribbling skills and Romario's total composurer for fnishing and improvisation) And he totally dominated football. 1000 career goals does say a lot. I don't care what league you are in.
@Patinho In my opinion Di Stefano (argentinian) and Puskas (magyar) were both better than Pele. They played in competitive leagues where goals could not be counted by the thousand. But they were not lucky enough as to win world cups, in fact Di Stefano never played one, and Puskas. as the forefront of the best team of all times -the Mighty Magyars- was badly injured by the germans and could barely play for the rest of the Cup.
@Xpl0dable Both are irrelevant criteria, noob boy. Since football is a TEAM game, the keys to compare INDIVIDUAL players shall not depend on the quality of the TEAMS they played for. These comparison parameters are ball control, technical skill, in-game intelligence, etc. This is what we are talking about. It's not tennis after all...
@Alibaba178 You seem to have a confusion between man and team. He played for the Santos, an excellent team for brasilian standards, but often bested by stronger south american teams.
Pele, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho: Beware the skills Messi: beware of the ultimate ball control with speed, C ronaldo: beware of the crying and the rolling, also beware of his 10000 step overs that dont take him anywhere.
Peles shit sayin the truth cuz he used to play for the best team in flemengo, Ok i accept barcelona are the best ins spain and other clubs exept real madrid and valancia are crap but other teams are sik. Its like barcelona in a league and in that league there were maccefield town, crawley town etc. Thats how the brazilain team used to be and pele zico and other llegends were in his team so peles shittttttt.He shows of he said " I scored alot of goals , i scored better goals than messi i scored
@yashrai94 Why are you comparing Messi and Pele? Football has developed like crazy, it was so much easier when pele played. Messi isn't yet the best ever, but he will be, just wait..
Pele will always be the best footballer of all times .... Messi never gained an World Cup ( Pele was three times World Champions with Brazil ). There´s a lot of envy by the argerntinians !
The defense was so bad back at these days.. Pelé could just run through them and the defense stand still.. No offside.. every match ended 5-0, 6-0 or 10-0.. He might be a legend, but Messi is gonna be a bigger legend.
@thenumberonehorrorfa a bad defense in the 60`s?? when te south american football was in his best moment???when the defense played like men??Messi never gonna be like Pele Maradona Cruyff Platini Zidane Ronaldo "Fenomeno", when he play out of barca without Xavi and Iniesta we talk
Hay si, ahora me voy a vendar los ojos por lo que has dicho !
El día que Pele haya tenido el carisma, fortaleza, gambeta, energía y de trascender el fúbol como lo hizo Maradona hablamos. Hasta ahora no. No existe una Iglesia de Pele, de Maradona si. Recuerdalo y añoralo. Porque jamás será igual un terrestre ( Pele ) a un D10S. Suerte y besitos !
@sopradarnota Dios es Dios. No necesita de Trofeos Terrenales. Me parece que no entiendiendes... te lo escribo en chino, japonés ? o te compramos unos ojos nuevos. Pele JAMAS será como Maradona y el mundo lo sabe por eso te queres matar.
@andresmosi4 Yo no sabia que los dioses eran drogadictos de mierda.. pero bien, si los argentinos son tal idiotas para tratar de un drogado que pasa el dia entero comiendo cocaina como dios, el problema es tuyo.
Avisame quando tu dios salir de las drogas, avisame quando tu dios pague toda la plata que deve para el govierno de italia.
ahhh y una cosa mas, hable comigo el dia que tu seleccion argentina gane algo inportante otra vez, que llevas 26 anos sin ganar mierda.
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For the assholes here who make their minds from what other people say instead of judging by themselves:
Sports Illustrated Magazine has just put Maradona as second best player ever... and Pelé as fourth
Fourth...
FOURTH...
F O U R T H ...
a11375 10 hours ago
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a11375 10 hours ago
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a11375 11 hours ago
Channa
megasecret5 14 hours ago
HE IS THE KING OF FOOTBALL
megasecret5 15 hours ago
The person who created the 009 sound system must die.
dazzaburger 19 hours ago
1283 goals. 03 world cups. 03 WC: played against England, Germany, etc, best players. Is so hard to understand? 03 WC
AntonioCDSPorto 1 day ago
Pele is better than Maradona Period
NikeBallaSoccer 1 day ago
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a11375 1 day ago
Pele was fourth in a raking madeby an American son of a bitch to fuck behind messiiiiiiiiiiii angry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
wesl2100 1 day ago
I don't like Pelé personally due to his arrogance, yet this doesn't fuel my following statement: look at the defences in Pelé's time and think very carefully if you still would call him the best ever...
And as I said, I don't like Pelé at all but I'm still being objective. It was no hard task to excel at the time of Pelé.
Daski69 2 days ago
Football was certainly different... Now everything's faster.
Maxesar 2 days ago
Pele is the greatest for two reasons: He basically solidified the empire of Brazil in World soccer, and he did all of this before "advanced training" and incredible advantage that these whiny wussy "privileged" players have today growing up. He had natural skills, not "skills" based on thousands of hours of private lessons, private camps etc
vaibanez17 2 days ago
@vaibanez17 Another clueless fanboy. Pelé was part of a brilliant football generation in Brazil. Several of his teammates were even better than him, and in Brazil they are largely regarded as such
Are you saying that Messi wasn't "naturally skilled" and that he learned to play football because of "private lessons"?
a11375 2 days ago
@a11375 That's fine, you're allowed to have your opinion. Pele made Americans care about soccer in the 1970s, that has to be noted. That's not an easy task today, much less in the 1970's when soccer wasn't even on the radar of 99% of the people here. Also, if there were better players, then show me. I am not saying you are wrong. I would like to learn more about the history of soccer. Nothing here has to be condescending, I am willing to give it a listen. Who are these players?
vaibanez17 2 days ago
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a11375 2 days ago
@vaibanez17 Actually and according to FIFA's international poll it's not just my opinion, but the world's
Look for Brazil's Golden Era players: Carlos Torres, Nilton Santos, Garrincha, Gerson, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Didi, Tostao, all superb players, some of the best the world has ever seen. Garrincha is largely regarded as even better than Pelé, certainly he had better skill. Some of them played in tactical and defensive positions, so comparison here is not as easy as counting goals
a11375 2 days ago
@a11375 Pele was better than all of those players combined; just look at the facts: International Federation of Football History and Statistics named him the best player in the 20th century, all of the players that you mentioned only gathered a fraction of the votes that Pele had.
It's universal: Pele is regarded as the best player to step on the pitch by the vast majority of football community.
Alibaba178 2 days ago
@Alibaba178 That's a VERY WEAK fact... I already showed you it's not about statistics. How do you measure ball control mastery, quality, elegance, game beauty, in-pitch smartness, bravery, leadership? By counting goals? By counting successful passes? By cups won? Of course not
The world has spoken. Several times. Pelé was one of the best, but hardly THE best
a11375 2 days ago
@a11375 what world has spoken? check "rsssf best of the best". everybody says ele is the best. the 30 ballon d or winners voted in 1999 and chose Pele, 17-3.
ball control mastery, quality, elegance, game beauty, in-pitch smartness are subjective to a degree, but Pele is more complete.fact.
in specific skills there are players who are better than pele and maradona, free kicks zico, passing platini or xavi maybe, garrincha dribbling, cristiano in speed etc.
overall Pele is the most complete.
sptwood05 2 days ago
@sptwood05 What world? THE WHOLE WORLD voted it, organized by FIFA and with Pelé actively involved in it. The greatest football poll ever conceived. It was not a lobby-driven poll and there were NO politics involved (unlike ballon-d'or)
And Pelé is indeed more complete, but he is by far less TALENTED overall than several other players, and TALENT is what we are talking about
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 talent is not what we judge. then ronaldinho could easily be top 5 or something.
Internet polls are worth shit. RECENT players always win. if one was made now, Messi, Cr7 and Xavi would be top 10 EVER:
recent polls are not fair to players who played years ago. the only ones who can knowq is those who have seen both Pele and Maradona live. not from videos.
30 ballon d or winners voted. Pele-Maradona 17-3. sure it hurts maradona fans that footballers chose Pele by far!!!
sptwood05 1 day ago
@sptwood05 Nonsense. Everyone knows Pelé and his myth. Everyone knows the "1283 goals", the 3 WC. Everyone has watched his videos over and over again
Yet when comparing his TALENT to Diego's it becomes obvious who is the best: 53% chose Maradona, 18% Pelé
Do you really think that BRAZILLIAN young people don't know who Pelé is? That Maradona is more famous there than Pelé himself?
Yet Diego beat him EVEN IN BRAZIL...
And Ronaldinho IS one of the top, what the fuck are you watching?
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 Seiously injured??? hahahaha a players who can run and shoot is not seriously injured. Seriously injured means you can barely walk!
inferior team??? LOL everyone knows argentina is the best in SA after Brazil and one of the best football nations in the world.
sptwood05 18 hours ago
@sptwood05 They had to cut his shoe for his swollen ankle TO FIT IN!!!! Google for images, you NOOB...
He could barely run and kick the ball. Only his EPIC will and commitment to his team and country made him play
WTF? 1990s Argentina was a MEDIOCRE TEAM, highly criticized in its home country. Besides, by the second game most of above average players were injured...
See? Things are not as easy as reading stats...
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 maradona failed in many more tournaments. 3 copa americas and 1982 world cup.
yes but the other teams werent too great either
sptwood05 14 hours ago
@sptwood05 Are you fucking retarded???? How many times do i have to say it?
Pelé and Maradona played in TEAMS!
Football is a TEAM game you fucking idiot! So it's the TEAM the one who fails or succeeds!
If you want individualism, then go watch tennis you moron
14 years old kiddies with DYSLEXIA should be banned from commenting on youtube...
a11375 10 hours ago
@a11375 of course they are played in teams.
But a team always depends a lot on its BEST PLAYER.
so Messi and Xavi dont get any credit for the great success of Barcelona then.
so waht if they played in teams. You maradona fans ACT like Maradona played ALONE!!!
thats my point, Maradona played in a team too, both napoli who had several good players and argentina, who was reigning champion in 1982 and still failed to do anything!
sptwood05 2 hours ago
@a11375
Like we ve said a million times it is very hard to compare with highlights and videos when only 15-20% of Peles goals are available and in black and white.
All great players are followed by great titles. Not all have won the WC but all great players have something to show.
Pele had flawless skills, nobody has ever denied that. Many players have great technique and individual skills. The ultimate test is TITLES. thats why teams buy players. and No1 is the World Cup.
sptwood05 2 hours ago
@a11375 as for 1986, dont forget River Plate was World Champion and Copa libertadores champion with plyaers like Pumpido, Ruggeri etc. so where is the mediocre level of argentine football?
argentina is not belgium or bolivia or japan as some people try to convince us. it never was.
sure brazil had great players in peles era but so did the BRAZ LEAGUE. Pele OVERCAME all his competitors of that era in and out of Brazil.
sptwood05 14 hours ago
@sptwood05 86? I said 90! Of course it was not nearly bad as Bolivia (ROLFMAO), but vastly inferior to its RIVALS Italy, Brazil and Germany,
so READ WHAT I WRITE
a11375 11 hours ago
@a11375 haha vastly inferior to its rivals??
Everybody knows that in World Cups in Latin America Europeans dont do that well. Argentina had an advantage in 1986 over euro teams. Plus they were aclimatized played for many games before the final in the altitute of Mexico City.
Germany was playing in lower altitute cities and only in the final went to Mexico City. Argentina was there since day 1. big difference
sptwood05 1 hour ago
@a11375 stats always reveal important things.
Look at Messi now!!! his stats are pretty amazing!!! stats are one way to show greatness.
when a player has an average of one goal per game and one assist per 2 games at the highest level, becomes top scorer in UCL every year and many more it sure means something.
cups won? thats what matters!! are you stupid? THAT is why TEAMS buy players, to get them trophys!!! not to show off joggler skills!
sptwood05 2 days ago
@sptwood05 In a TEAM game stats are of mild importance, because they are the result of the whole TEAM production!! For example, if Pelé didn't receive the ball both precisely and often, he would be a far less impressive scorer. This is pretty obvious stuff...
And no, cups won is NOT a key to compare players, you NOOB. Otherwise awful Camoranessi (1 WC) would be a better player than Cruyff (0 WC)
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 Pele scored goals in every way and gave many goals too. in 1970 he gave 6 assists in 6 games for example.
Peles teams disappeared after he retired. fact. hahaa was Camoranesi ever even the MVP of his own team? Pele was the MVP of Brazil and best player in the world for years and years. please LEARN how to COMPARE!!!
sptwood05 1 day ago
@sptwood05 Dude why dont you READ what I write? I NEVER compared Pelé to Camoranesi (ROLFMAO) I just said that you can't compare players by cups won, otherwise Camoranesi (won 1 WC) would have to be better than Cruyff (won no WC), which would be 100% nonsense
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 nobody compares ONLY by titles won. But titles show something.
Is it a coincidence then that OF ALL players in history ONLY one, Pele has 3 world cups and 32 official titles in total(record) and at the same time 1280 goals and at the same time won at 17 years old, and at the same time considered athlete of the century 3 times???
sptwood05 18 hours ago
@sptwood05 No, not a coincidence: as I have said MANY TIMES ALREADY, Pelé was part of a GOLDEN GENERATION. Not such a thing has EVER happened around the globe
With Pelé in the pitch and Garrincha in decline, Brazil SUFFERED ITS WORST PERFORMANCE EVER in 66. So OBVIOUSLY he was not the "one man band" that fanboys claim him to be
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 pele on the pitch in 1966? just count the minutes he was without injury. only a few minutes in the first and last game. in the second he did not play.
dont mislead!
sptwood05 14 hours ago
@sptwood05 He WAS in the pitch and did poorly. Benching out due to a mild injury in such highly CRUCIAL times is just weak. Some people say that he was trying to protect his own myth. That he saw how things were going downhill and chose to go the easy way: "Not my fault, I only played a few minutes, it's my teammates who are nothing without me"...
Maradona played the ENTIRE 90 WC in one leg. He never quitted. This is what it takes to separate a great player from a true legend
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 bullshit!
the coach made a mistake. they thought they would beat hungary but they didnt.
who are you to know if the injury was mild??
Pele chose to play in the third game. Even Eusebio said that Pele was injured already and that the portuguese didnt do all the dirty job.
different times then anyway, recovering from injury was not as fast as now.
you are so biased. maradona is a drug legend. made cocaine and ephedrine famous haha.
without drugs he would be a shy little guy.
sptwood05 13 hours ago
@sptwood05 besides Pele is the only player with Uwe Seeler that has scored in 4 world cups.
sptwood05 13 hours ago
@sptwood05 I told you already that stats without context mean NOTHING. They have already misled you to wrong conclusions...
a11375 11 hours ago
@sptwood05 LEARN YOUR STUFF, it was a minor injury: the coach was preserving him for later, and all Pelé was caring for was his own status and being selfish as he always was
It was nothing as Maradona's injury, which became WORSE with each WC game. Yet he played anyway, even risking his career
a11375 11 hours ago
@a11375 you are so stupid you dont get it. Brazil was disorganized in that world cup and did not plan well. they thought they would beat Hungary, they had Garrincha in anyway.
minor injury? who the fuck are you to say if Pele should have played? Coaches always want a player to be fit in such games. the game vs Portugal was a much tougher one so obviously they wanted Pele as fit as possible for it.
Same happened with Zico in 1986, he was indeed injured. but he could play not like Pele
sptwood05 2 hours ago
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@a11375 you are so stupid you dont get it. Brazil was disorganized in that world cup and did not plan well. they thought they would beat Hungary, they had Garrincha in anyway.
minor injury? who the fuck are you to say if Pele should have played? Coaches always want a player to be fit in such games. the game vs Portugal was a much tougher one so obviously they wanted Pele as fit as possible for it.
Same happened with Zico in 1986, he was indeed injured. but he could play not like Pele
sptwood05 2 hours ago
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@a11375 you are so stupid you dont get it. Brazil was disorganized in that world cup and did not plan well. they thought they would beat Hungary, they had Garrincha in anyway.
minor injury? who the fuck are you to say if Pele should have played? Coaches always want a player to be fit in such games. the game vs Portugal was a much tougher one so obviously they wanted Pele as fit as possible for it.
Same happened with Zico in 1986, he was indeed injured. but he could play not like Pele
sptwood05 1 hour ago
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sptwood05 1 hour ago
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@a11375 and not only germany but also england in 1986 WC was not aclimatized to Mexico City.
England had only played in Mexico City 4 days before the argentina game.
Argentina had already played its first game there 20 days before. England was playing in Monterrey, only 500 meters altitute. so as you see things were pretty convenient for Argentina.
sptwood05 1 hour ago
@sptwood05 And you just showed that you are just FULLY ignorant in sports: cocaine RUINS your skills, it does not IMPROVE them
You are the biased fanboy who (unlike the WHOLE WORLD) is not willing to accept Maradona's status as a legend. In the end, having exhausted all your false arguments, you resort to childish insults about the tragedy of drug addiction. Shame on you
a11375 11 hours ago
@a11375 sure whatever you say. maradona wasnt that much of a leader before his cocaine years. a total flop in 1982 world cup. and won just one argentinian league from 1976 to 1982.
failed in 3 out of 3 copa americas.
nobdy said maradona was a bad player. read my comments you moron! Simply Maradona was never in the level of Pele. Ask anyne who has seen them both live? the answers are 95 to 5.
sptwood05 1 hour ago
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
sptwood05 1 hour ago
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@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
sptwood05 1 hour ago
@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
sptwood05 1 hour ago
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@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
sptwood05 1 hour ago
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@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of curse I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranois he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
sptwood05 1 hour ago
@a11375 typical maradona fan. you know its 25 years since maradonas heyday, and many things have changed. more years separate Maradona and messi than maradona and pele.
i said before: if Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro and other players of small physique dominate, so would Pele who could run 100m in 11 seconds with ball and could jump like an NBA athlete.
sptwood05 1 day ago
@sptwood05 That's EXACTLY what I have been saying all along, can't you fucking read? 1950s and 1980s football are way easier to compare than 1980s and 2010s'
And I AM a Maradona fan and also a Pelé's fan, just not a fanboy of either one, I like to put things into perspective and study FACTS
a11375 1 day ago
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sptwood05 18 hours ago
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@a11375 if defenders were better in the 80s then they would be a lot better today and Messi would be a lot better than any other player. but thats not how it goes.
quality can be found in any era.
like i said internet polls mean shit.
Even Menotti says Pele is better than Maradona. he knows better.
watch?v=o3eRj7ZBGYw
truth hurts!!!
sptwood05 18 hours ago
@sptwood05 Another of your claims without any knowledge of the underlying FACTS. Menotti has a PERSONAL FEUD against Maradona since many years!!
Anything he says must be disregarded as it comes from personal hate...
And defenders could be slightly more skilled today than in 80s. But defense as a whole was more effective back then, because violent stoppers were barely punished at all
Rule enforcement by referees has improved a lot ever since
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 haha we see how much violent stoppers are punished today. Pepe should have gotten like 3 red cards in the 2-2 classico. ujfalusi, van bommel and others still go unpunished today.
sptwood05 14 hours ago
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a11375 11 hours ago
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a11375 9 hours ago
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@sptwood05 Sheesh... In the 80s people made a CAREER out of fouling and ruining other players' legs and careers. Gentile NEVER saw a red card for kicking like a mad donkey... they only sent him off ONCE for grabbing the ball....
In the 80s Messi would have got his legs injured and even broken in a short time
Football violence IS punished MUCH HARDER today than in 80s... there will be always a few that get away with it
a11375 8 hours ago
@a11375 You can't deny the fact that players now days have access to state-of-the-art training programs and facilities that no doubt help them improve tremendously, not to mention, the astronomical advancements in sport-science and human biology thanks to the advent of computers.
Computers didn't even exist 50 years ago; just imagine the world back then. It was primitive.
Pele is 100% pure natural skill.
Alibaba178 2 days ago
@Alibaba178 It's ALWAYS about 100% natural skill. You have no idea how player recruitment works. They don't waste time in improving unskilled ones, they only chose the naturally talented. Pelé, Maradona and Messi were incredibly naturally skilled when they were kids
Hi tech training and nutrition can improve speed by a tiny bit, and increase stamina, strength, etc. It will NOT improve ball control, game overview, smartness, leadership, etc. Those are inborn
a11375 2 days ago
@a11375 by the things you say about nutrition and hi tech training, you prove that Pele would be even better in todays game.
skill is what matters. look at players like Xavi or Guardiola in his days, not the greatest physical presense, nothing like Pele, but they still excelled at top level football.
people dont look for excuses. Pele would always be top level. a player with such athletisism and without flaws will always be great.
sptwood05 2 days ago
@sptwood05 No discussion here. But you are missing something else: those slow, shy and clumsy defenders would ALSO be much better nowadays. In fact most of them would not even be playing today: football recruiting is MUCH more demanding now
A slighly faster and stronger Pelé would be facing MUCH MORE skilled, trained and professional defenses than he did back then, so overall balance would be AGAINST HIM
As many have said, an improved version of Pelé would not look so good today...
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 hahaha defenders. you talk like if defenders are super skilled players. maybe full backs have better control: zanetti, maicon, roberto carlos etc, but in Peles time there was nilton santos(botafogo), Suurbier, Breinter, Facchetti and of course CB like Bobby moore, burgnich and so many more.
haha so PIQUE; or Ramos or Dani Alves or Ferdinand are not clumsy??? bullshit!! even Alex Ferguson said recently that Pele would be amazing even in our times. only maradona fans support what you say
sptwood05 1 day ago
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a11375 1 day ago
@sptwood05 The real football defense techniques as we know today started in the mid 80s. Before that, defense was simply left for the less skilled of the team
The changes in defense training and strategies steeply decreased the average goals per game. So yes, today's defenders are VERY skilled and highly effective in their own stuff
And Pelé would be good today, but he would be far less amazing than he was in his time
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 ha, ha, ha. Against the geniuses there are no efficient defenses. At any time. Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Messi, each in their own time, are out to prove. By this they are geniuses. You know what was playing in South America at the time that skin played? Extremely violent. The judges allowed it. Pelé is the best and complete: dribbled well, kicked well, head well, passed the ball well, and caught up in goal (he was the keeper of the line. took 03 penalties in career)
AntonioCDSPorto 1 day ago
@AntonioCDSPorto That's misleading. 50s-70s defenses didn't stop Pelé. TODAYS defenses most likely would
But defense was a lot more effective in 80s than it is today: it had become a fully developed position already, and they were BRUTAL, something today's players are not allowed to be
so no doubt that today's Maradona would be even more amazing than in 80s
And again, this is not about completeness, but about TALENT
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 talent by itself doesnt mean anything. Many playesr can claim they are the most talented!!!
The big test is to stand the difficulties of a professional career and achieve things in time.
talent is just excuse for underachievers.
How would they? Pele had every possible skill, even Messi does not. can Messi head, score as many free kicks as Pele? Bicycle kicks? both feet? still Messi scores a lot. No defender can match a FLAWLESS player like Pele
sptwood05 14 hours ago
@sptwood05 What the fuck does talent have to do with underachievement?
Only people with a naive, misguided and individualistic view of things could take the number of achievements as a measure of a player's talent
These kind of ignorants would never doubt to judge writers by number of book sales, etc.
Pelé was a talented guy who had the luck of being part of a great generation of local players (although he was not even the best of them)
No one EVER had such luck
a11375 10 hours ago
@a11375 you are stupid. haah LUCK??? that great GENERATION you mention played football before Pele(Nilton Santos, Didi, Gilmar) and after Pele( Jairzinho, Rivelino) but achieved nothing!
All these legends played in the brazilian league and Pele BEAT them. All these legends never won Cop Lib, Int Cup and were never National Treasure, or considered the best player in the world. only Pele and Garrincha for a while where.
sptwood05 2 hours ago
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@a11375 maradona didnt only take cociane but also enhancement drugs.
He could practically take anything he wanted with the cover up he had in Napoli. a true cheat.
of course I know and everybody knows the effects of cocaine. My point is that all his "leadership" bullshit was not him, but the cocaines work. the super sized ego, the paranoia he still has , the "me against the world". cocaines stuff.
haha go watch the commercial against drugs of maradona in early 80s. how ironic!
sptwood05 1 hour ago
@a11375 dont use excuses.
It is not only Menotti, it is Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Puskas, and so many others.
In the end every player, and person has their personal preferences, enemies, friends etc.
who is objective then? people who grew up in the 80s?
sptwood05 14 hours ago
@sptwood05 You didn't HAVE A CLUE about Menotti's bias and yet you took his word for granted. Do you know anything about these guys hidden motivations? Of course NOT...
It's always easier to pick someone who played before your own era than someone who came afterwards because it is much harder to admit being shadowed by someone younger... it makes all your efforts look futile
a11375 11 hours ago
@a11375 "And again, this is not about completeness, but about TALENT"
See the video: Short disconcerting dribbles, no different than Messi or Maradona does or did, well-aimed shots from anywhere, all the way and in any event. Goals, many goals. THIS is TALENT
AntonioCDSPorto 13 hours ago
@AntonioCDSPorto And who is denying it? Pelé is a great player, but there are several other ones better than him
a11375 11 hours ago
@AntonioCDSPorto plus Pele was skilled with both feet. you couldnt tell if he was left or right. he was a perfect header, scored 2 in world cup finals and so much more.
Pele could score in every way. he scored 1100 goals for Santos. in the same time the second scorer Pepe had only 400 goals. and Pepe was a good player himself.
the achievments of Pele noone has even come close.
If it were that easy many players would have Peles achievements.
sptwood05 57 minutes ago
@AntonioCDSPorto Pele had more talent than any player.
He was a complete player. Possesed all the skills. was even a great goalkeeper.
And of course a much better ATHLETE than Maradona.
sptwood05 52 minutes ago
@a11375 Do we watched the same video?
BTW. You mean before the 80s there wasn't any geniuses.
I think you just should see how he handle the ball.
MrGebasz 23 hours ago
@MrGebasz Yep, same video
No, I am just adding some perspective: 50s' and 60s' geniuses would have been much less amazing in 80s, and 80s geniuses would be even more amazing now
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 bullshit. defensive system was introduced in 60s: CATENACCIO by Inter of Herrera.
football systems and trends make cycles. 10, 15 years ago football was again defensive, now it is offensive, we see many high scores, 8-2, 7-0,1-6 in premier league, 10-0 in dutch league, 8-0, 2-6 in la liga, 4-0 in CWC Final and so on.
hahaha VERY SKILLED?? give us a break! skilled players always made fools of defenders.
footballers learn their skills in childhood until late teens
sptwood05 21 hours ago
@sptwood05 Catenaccio is just ONE tactic of many. It was "invented" in the late 40s, by the late 70s it was obsolete. Herrera's catenaccio in 60s (what you are referring to) was just a short-lived variety
Mixed and sweeping zone tactics were raised to their prime in the 80s and with some changes, they are still in use today. Defenders had to have specialized stopping skills, speed and toughtness
This, plus full use of violent fouling, made 80s defenses MUCH more effective than 50s
a11375 11 hours ago
@a11375 violent fouling exists always. even know with all the yellow cards and post match punishments. like I said look at Pepe, in front of the whole world watching, and he does those violent fouls, and is unpunished!
In peles times there were very violent teams, especially in Uruguay and Argentina. Estudiantes in late 60s was one of them, players even getting arrested during games.
sptwood05 1 hour ago
@a11375
IF Pele played today. If if if if if if. Nobody cares about if and nobody can talk hypothetically.
You can talk with facts. Pele faced the players he faces, and beat the shit out of them . fact.
In any era, in any SPORT; IN ANY PROFESSION, it is always very hard to be very much above your competitors.
You are not fooling anyone.
sptwood05 21 hours ago
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a11375 14 hours ago
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@sptwood05 Your claims ALSO have a underlying hypothesis: when you COMPARE players from different eras there are respective CONTEXTS (team lineups, defense strategies, motivations, coaching, etc.) that must be carefully weighted up
Your IMPLIED hypothesis is that you can safely disregard such contexts and make a conclusion out of thin stats. This hypothesis is just DELUSIONAL and makes you look like a complete CLUELESS noob
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 anyway you cant really cmpare SYSTEMS with so many rule changes. Backpass rule, offside rule only if you are part of the play now, yellow cards, accumulation of yellow cards, direct red card for foul from behind etc etc.
fact is that MOST of the ALL time legendary teams and players are from Peles era. fact. dont make me name them.
star players in our times are protected much more by referees. fact. in 1966 Pele received no protection at all. fact.
sptwood05 21 hours ago
@sptwood05 That's why I am NOT comparing SYSTEMS, but PLAYERS. I am just NOT discarding away the CIRCUMSTANCES of each era's game, as most fanboys are eager to do just to see his hero reign unchallenged at all costs...
a11375 14 hours ago
@sptwood05 Maradona received NO protection either. That's how things were back then. This has changed A LOT
a11375 11 hours ago
@a11375 in addition to the best players, from defenders(Moore, Beckenbauer), goalkeepers(Yashin, Banks), and many more, and teams, also the best world cup was in 1970.
the WORST world cup, of low level is 1990. shit performances.
each league has its characteristics. Italians are more defensive, and spanish and english and brazilian more offensive. but if you see history MORE OFFENSIVE teams become champions: Real Madrid, Liverpool, Ajax, Barcelona, Brazil, Germany.
sptwood05 21 hours ago
@sptwood05 Those are not facts. For worst WC ever, I've also heard 94 or 06. For best one, 70, 82, 86 (Maradona, Sánchez, Francescoli, Platini, Matthaus, Butragueño, etc.)
I am yet undecided, as it's just not a matter of counting goals or big names
a11375 14 hours ago
@a11375 82 was a good world cup too. 06 and 2010 were bad.
sptwood05 14 hours ago
@a11375 LOL, Messi? You didn't know that Messi would've have been the way he is today without the technology and medical advancements that have helped him?
Do some research on his hormone growth augmentation; without technology, he would have 6" inches shorter, and most definitely a total different player.
Alibaba178 2 days ago
@Alibaba178 Look at the videos of Messi as a kid: he was already faster, smarter and much more skilled than the other taller, heavier and even older kids, which themselves were well above average players. His supposed hormone treatment made him more suitable for admission into professional football but did nothing to improve his skills, which were inborn
a11375 2 days ago
@vaibanez17 Agree. Brazil had never won a World Cup before Pele, even when they hosted it on their own turf in 1950, and lost to Uruguay in front of 200,000 people at the Maracana.
There is no doubt that Brazil's golden age was during Pele's time (1958-1970), after Pele had retired, Brazil didn't win a world cup convincingly (penalties in 94, and underdogs as 02).
Alibaba178 2 days ago
@Alibaba178 Not true. Pelé did not even reach the second stage of the 66 WC, in Brazil's WORST performance in ANY WC. Fanboys put the blame on Portugal's and Bulgary's fouling, but Maradona was MUCH MORE BRUTALLY beaten in the 90 WC, and Argentina nevertheless reached the FINAL game. Truth is, Garrincha was badly injured, Gerson played terribly and Jairzinho played in the wrong place. Pelé was NOTHING without them. But with Gerson and Jairzinho in good shape Brazil won the 70 WC
a11375 2 days ago
@a11375 maradona did not face that great teams in the early face of 1990 wc. in the knockout Goyco saved Argentina, not maradona. Brazil faced the best portugal of all time in 1966, and pele was injured in that game plus the first one. in the game vs hungary he didnt play at all and BRAZIL LOST. if they had won that game or drew they would have gone through, so what you are saying is inaccurate.
sptwood05 2 days ago
@sptwood05 You are the one changing FACTS to suit your needs: Brazil lost to Portugal with Pelé on the pitch!!
Argentina faced Brazil, Yugoslavia, Italy and Germany. Except for the finals, Maradona was brutally kicked in ALL games
His ankle was so swollen they had to cut his shoe. Any other player (Pelé among them) would have begged to be sent to the bench, but Diego demanded to play and he was key in every game, specially in Argentina's win over Brazil
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 not changing anything. of course pele played vs portugal, but injured!
he asked to plya although not fit from th bulgaria game(thats why he was out with hungary)
adding to that he got hit by the portuguese persistently. he continued the game walking on one foot, brazil was playing practically with 10, no subs allowed!
sptwood05 1 day ago
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a11375 1 day ago
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@sptwood05 That's a lame excuse. By his own DEMAND, Maradona played every game in 1990 world cup SERIOUSLY INJURED.
And he led his way inferior team to the finals, which they lost by a penalty that never happened...
Alone, this EPIC commitment to his team and country, self-sacrifice and prime leadership raises Maradona well above Pelé
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 hahaha jairzinho played in 1974 WC and did nothing. Jairzinho won shit at club level. same with tostao, gerson, rivelino.
look at their brazil stats and their career titles at club level. nothing compared to Peles. Pele was the leader of Brazil, you cant convince anyone about otherwise. get over it dude!
sptwood05 2 days ago
@sptwood05 They won nothing in ´74 because they were bested by Cruyff & co.
Moncho1234 2 days ago
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sptwood05 2 days ago
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@Moncho1234 but it was a hardly impressive brazil. the only spectacular brazil was when Pele played. in the games Pele missed in 58, in 1962 and 66 Brazil was harldy impressive.
nobody recalls the 1962 brazil champion team as spectacular.
the 58 and 70 only. why? because pele played.
sptwood05 2 days ago
@sptwood05 You have a good point, which I don´t share. He was too young in ´58, that was Didi´s team. He was out in ´62 and Garrincha shone. In ´66, besides Pele´s injuries many new great teams emerged (Ussr, Portugal, Germany, and, why not, England). His real and personal time as a superhero had to be waited until 1970. Beware, someone is marking your comments as spam.
Moncho1234 1 day ago
@sptwood05 Jairzinho was one of the best players of all time. A top scorer and record man. It is just your noobish fetishism with "statistics" what does not let you appreciate that FACT.
You like the so called "football experts" lists? He is ahead of ZIDANE in World Soccer Magazine's one...
You just PROVED what I said: stats without context blur facts and lead to incorrect conclusions. Please stop looking into the stats sheet.. you are making yourself look like an American
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375 jairzinho played in botafogo with nilton santos, garrincha, didi, amarildo and still didnt win much, like Pele and Santos did.
sptwood05 2 days ago
@sptwood05 Did nothing? Rio de Janeiro-Sao Paulo Tournament 62, 64, 66, Rio de Janeiro Tournament 61, 62, 67, 68, Guanabara Cup 67, 68, Taca 68
This is DESPITE Jairzinho playing in the wrong field position for 11 years, Garrincha going down due to alcoholism, etc...
And Pelé's teammates in Santos were also some of the world's best: Pepe, Zito, Lima, Coutinho, Gylmar (best Brazillian goalkeeper of the century), Mengalvio. All of them are legends
a11375 1 day ago
@a11375
haha Mengalvio legend with just 13 caps for Brazil??? LOL
hahahahahaha Lima had 6 CAPS for Brazil. SIX. and only was in 1966 squad! legend yes suuuuuure!
even Pepe had only 41 caps for brazil.
even Coutinho and Pepe were mostly in the bench of Brazil. Didi, Vava, Garrincha and after Jairzinho Rivelino , Tostao, Gerson were the regulars. none of those played in Santos.
dont embarass yourself. you dont know enough.
sptwood05 1 day ago
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@sptwood05 Have you ever heard of Maradona? He was EXCLUDED from Argentina's National Team for the 78 WC
Messi? He was benched several times for no reason, even for a half of the 06 WC
Palermo? One of the 5 top scorers in Argentine football history. He played only a few times in the National Team...
Cut the crap now: knowing things is not just a matter of having access to information, it requires intelligence and wisdom, and it's obvious by now that you don't have much of either...
a11375 1 day ago
@charnj1 clearly you are a maradona fan yet you are hier watching pele
funufana 2 days ago
@LeoMrMessi u like messi too much to see The facts as they are Hey we get it
funufana 2 days ago
A lot of school kids on this video have no IDEA what Pele had to go through:
watch?v=yIWjPGG8fDY
Anyone else would've ended up with 10 broken bones.
Alibaba178 2 days ago
The worst of Mradona,Messi,Ronaldo da lima and Zidane is better than the best of Pele :)
TheLibyanaify 2 days ago
song please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1991timati 3 days ago
Still no Diego Maradona!!!!!
charnj1 3 days ago
207 goals of Pele in 22 minutes video:
watch?v=88BQYlJ5dUQ
sptwood05 3 days ago
Maradone mejor que pele? jajajaj pele tiene mas de 1200 goles y 3 mundiales....
es gracioso que digan que maradona es mejor xD fue un exelente jugador eso todos lo saben pero no me vengan con pavadas de decir que es mejor que pele
benurio 4 days ago
@benurio Tu forma de evaluar no elige al mejor, sino que marca un perfil de jugador que de hecho solamente pueden llenar delanteros (por la cantidad de goles) brasileños (por las copas ganadas en que tuvo la fortuna de figurar). El mundo del fútbol es, afortunadamente, mucho más amplio y rico que eso.
Moncho1234 3 days ago
@Moncho1234 tambien lo digo por la calidad de jugador,regates,inteligencia,trabajo en equipo y todo eso
En chile.Elias Figueroa gano 3 veces el premio al mejor jugador del mundo y era defensa.. asi que solo por hacer goles tengo claro que no podria haber ganado los premios
pero aun asi pele era un jugador completo por donde se le mire por eso es y sera siempre el mejor jugador del mundo aunque a los argentinos con su orgullo que no deja ver mas aya de sus ojos no les guste aceptar
benurio 3 days ago
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a11375 3 days ago
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@benurio ¿Sólo los argentinos? La encuesta online de la FIFA para el Jugador del Siglo lo dio vencedor a Maradona por 53%. Pelé sacó el 18%. Votó todo el mundo. Pelé perdió hasta en Brasil...
Lo que no les deja aceptar la realidad a los chilenos es su eterno complejo de inferioridad
Y Figueroa sólo ganó UNA vez el premio al mejor jugador del mundo. El resto fueron premios locales o regionales
a11375 3 days ago
@benurio Figueroa era un fuera de serie, pero no tuvo la suerte de acompañar un momento fulgurante de la selección de su país, como le aconteció a Pelé. Calificar a un jugador por los equipos en los que alternó, o por la cantidad de goles convertidos es injusto con respecto a otros que juegan en distintas posiciones, o en clubes o seleccionados menos afortunados.
Moncho1234 1 day ago
Best player ever.
mbrushoff 4 days ago
Menotti talking about Pele and Maradona:
watch?v=1mc4bqry2ts
sptwood05 4 days ago
Paused the video and decided to watch somewhere else. Just cause of the fucking music ._.
CrookandTheftsTv 4 days ago
Pele was iconic, but maradona was better.
Moncho1234 4 days ago
@Moncho1234 no pele is rated the best player ever
TheGORDON14 4 days ago
@TheGORDON14 Those who rate it that way are wrong. Others rate maradona as the best and I think they are right.
Moncho1234 3 days ago
@Moncho1234 IN my opinion Ronaldo (Brazilian) and Romario were both better than Maradona.
MAradona even says that Romario is the best attacking player ever.
I dont know about Pele. - Seeing this vid thought it looks like he had everythign Romario and Ronaldo had combined. (Ronaldo's dribbling skills and Romario's total composurer for fnishing and improvisation) And he totally dominated football. 1000 career goals does say a lot. I don't care what league you are in.
Patinho 3 days ago
@Patinho In my opinion Di Stefano (argentinian) and Puskas (magyar) were both better than Pele. They played in competitive leagues where goals could not be counted by the thousand. But they were not lucky enough as to win world cups, in fact Di Stefano never played one, and Puskas. as the forefront of the best team of all times -the Mighty Magyars- was badly injured by the germans and could barely play for the rest of the Cup.
Moncho1234 2 days ago
@Moncho1234 both never won a wc
never scored in important matches
both that u said dont have more goals than Pele and played in the same era
so STFU
hater retarded!
Xpl0dable 2 days ago
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a11375 2 days ago
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a11375 2 days ago
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@Xpl0dable Both are irrelevant criteria, noob boy. Since football is a TEAM game, the keys to compare INDIVIDUAL players shall not depend on the quality of the TEAMS they played for. These comparison parameters are ball control, technical skill, in-game intelligence, etc. This is what we are talking about. It's not tennis after all...
a11375 2 days ago
@Xpl0dable Teams win cups, not players. Nevertheless I recognize merits of your man as a top scorer. At least performing in his league. Farewell.
Moncho1234 2 days ago
@Moncho1234 And trashing the European Cup winners on multiple occasions. He made the best European clubs look like a joke.
Alibaba178 2 days ago
@Alibaba178 You seem to have a confusion between man and team. He played for the Santos, an excellent team for brasilian standards, but often bested by stronger south american teams.
Moncho1234 2 days ago
@Moncho1234 Neither of whom scored more goals than Pele, won more medals, trophies, or had skills that are even close to Pele.
Alibaba178 2 days ago
@Alibaba178 Medal contest.
Moncho1234 2 days ago
1st is maradona
2nd is pele
bnjrmdsr 4 days ago
@bnjrmdsr thats y pele is ranked the best player ever
TheGORDON14 4 days ago
best od pele only 3:29 ???
fgdfgh5 4 days ago
Just how can someone dislike this?
Jaaz7 5 days ago
Need any more proof, didn't think so. That's why he's the greatest ever.
joueurharo 5 days ago
Pele, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho: Beware the skills Messi: beware of the ultimate ball control with speed, C ronaldo: beware of the crying and the rolling, also beware of his 10000 step overs that dont take him anywhere.
darthvaderroxs 5 days ago
He rocks the world with his skills
TheMissileMouse 5 days ago
Pele ese muy perfecto
TheMissileMouse 5 days ago
better headed goals and i say even my perants say there is no one better than me. Hes such a show off.
muhammad40000 5 days ago
Peles shit sayin the truth cuz he used to play for the best team in flemengo, Ok i accept barcelona are the best ins spain and other clubs exept real madrid and valancia are crap but other teams are sik. Its like barcelona in a league and in that league there were maccefield town, crawley town etc. Thats how the brazilain team used to be and pele zico and other llegends were in his team so peles shittttttt.He shows of he said " I scored alot of goals , i scored better goals than messi i scored
muhammad40000 5 days ago
Better than messi...
yashrai94 5 days ago
@yashrai94 Why are you comparing Messi and Pele? Football has developed like crazy, it was so much easier when pele played. Messi isn't yet the best ever, but he will be, just wait..
Tuplabotti 5 days ago
Pele will always be the best footballer of all times .... Messi never gained an World Cup ( Pele was three times World Champions with Brazil ). There´s a lot of envy by the argerntinians !
MrNomindjoy 5 days ago
pele is a stone age footballer who disqualify to play modern day football....let alone compare with messi n maradona...
angello6130 5 days ago
The defense was so bad back at these days.. Pelé could just run through them and the defense stand still.. No offside.. every match ended 5-0, 6-0 or 10-0.. He might be a legend, but Messi is gonna be a bigger legend.
thenumberonehorrorfa 5 days ago
@thenumberonehorrorfa a bad defense in the 60`s?? when te south american football was in his best moment???when the defense played like men??Messi never gonna be like Pele Maradona Cruyff Platini Zidane Ronaldo "Fenomeno", when he play out of barca without Xavi and Iniesta we talk
willaswene 5 days ago
@thenumberonehorrorfa Offside was invented in 1925 !
andreyus08 5 days ago
Pele es como el fernet.... Negro y amargo
nicoriver10 6 days ago
Legend
MrNohomo17 6 days ago
Hay si, ahora me voy a vendar los ojos por lo que has dicho !
El día que Pele haya tenido el carisma, fortaleza, gambeta, energía y de trascender el fúbol como lo hizo Maradona hablamos. Hasta ahora no. No existe una Iglesia de Pele, de Maradona si. Recuerdalo y añoralo. Porque jamás será igual un terrestre ( Pele ) a un D10S. Suerte y besitos !
andresmosi4 6 days ago
@andresmosi4 avisame quando tu dios tenga 3 copas del mundo.
sopradarnota 6 days ago
@sopradarnota Dios es Dios. No necesita de Trofeos Terrenales. Me parece que no entiendiendes... te lo escribo en chino, japonés ? o te compramos unos ojos nuevos. Pele JAMAS será como Maradona y el mundo lo sabe por eso te queres matar.
andresmosi4 6 days ago
@andresmosi4 Yo no sabia que los dioses eran drogadictos de mierda.. pero bien, si los argentinos son tal idiotas para tratar de un drogado que pasa el dia entero comiendo cocaina como dios, el problema es tuyo.
Avisame quando tu dios salir de las drogas, avisame quando tu dios pague toda la plata que deve para el govierno de italia.
ahhh y una cosa mas, hable comigo el dia que tu seleccion argentina gane algo inportante otra vez, que llevas 26 anos sin ganar mierda.
sopradarnota