BBC Newsnight Discussion on London Riots 8/8/11

[glutinousmaximus]

Good Stuff!

[rothwellss]

3 different views

[dhingchak123]

Every democracy has been hijacked by cowards these days...

[cornwallgeezer]

Because of the cuts, no it's because Labour are the biggest scum to ever run the country. What the fuck did they do for 13 years.

Labour prey off the poor and the non educated.

Labour voters think a Manifesto is a fucking pizza topping!

Tories are lying scum as well!

[stealthyspider]

Ken and his labour party are apologists for criminals. These scrounging “I want it for nothing” scumbags are what happen when you have a Labour government in power for 13 years that breeds this sort of attitude.

[SiriusMined]

It happens in America??

When's the last time we had a riot? The only ones I can remember were the times people protested the G6/7/20/LMNOP^3

[bimblinghill]

2/2 Also the upper reaches of society have been setting a terrible example. Fiddled your expenses? OK, just don't get caught (MPs). Accept bribes? OK, don't get caught (MPs, police). Hack phones of murder victims? OK, don't get caught (journalists). Reward yourself millions whilst destroying the livelihoods of the rest of us? If you get caught you can threaten to destroy the economy & no-one will touch you (bankers).

Some of those condemning the rioters need to take a look at themselves.

[ShallowBeThyGames]

@bimblinghill Indeed. I often find in the most ignorant of conversations between Daily Mail readers in the pub are always happy to slaughter the hogs while the pigs get fat.

I'm sick of hearing the same tired rhetoric from boneheads, bemoaning single mothers and "doleys" taking money out of their pockets. While their silence gives consent to the Inland Revenue to "let off" Vodafone for "forgot" to pay 6-7 BILLION pounds in taxes.

[ShallowBeThyGames]

@bimblinghill (cont) For every penny a "scrounger" takes (and they only take pennies in comparison), there is billions being given away to already wealthy company owners in tax loopholes the government refuses to close.

Only when these fat bastards are FORCED to play by the same rules the rest of us have to follow, will I join anyone in their condemnation of a doley, sitting on his arse watching Jeremy Kyle, instead of finding a job.

[bimblinghill]

@ShallowBeThyGames Yep. The rules need to apply to everyone in society, top to bottom, or we are on the path to meltdown.

[bimblinghill]

1/2 I think several forces have come together to reach a tipping point e.g., recession leading to unemployment & a loss of opportunities. I've read that this recession has disproportionately affected the young & when people think they've little to lose some of them (a tiny minority) become antisocial. I'm not trying to condone them (I think the courts should throw the book at them) but I'm trying to understand why it should happen here & now. It would suck to be 16 right now.

[squirrelywrath2]

I do not know about the particulars of this social group, but I do know that one of the top predictors of criminal behaviors in youth has nothing to do with having a reason to do it, so much as having no reason not to do it.

The two guys on the right hand side seem to ring true given that fact. People do not riot en mass because suddenly nobody is being raised right. They do so because they see themselves as having nothing to lose. So they lash out at whatever is immediately available.

[optionsupdate]

BBC the establishment mouthpiece

[optionsupdate]

I wonder if the cop has ever hacked for money?

[unclexbob]

Hard to imagine, unemployment goes way up, safety nets get cut, and magically a bunch of young people have a higher tendency to riot....?

I just can't find any correlation.....

[ModerateMartian]

Cuts or knock-on effects of Labour's mismanagement... again? It can be seen either way. A lot of this is down to one thing, some think and have been brought up to think they are untouchable.

[IllegalMedia]

6:11 ah ah ah LOOOOL

[IllegalMedia]

All Hail Ken!!!!

[timetochilli]

he says family structure well the famiies come from a poverty structure mainly pushed by the conservative and the thatcher bitch ideology

[shangrigreige]

bunga bunga wot woz his name?

[ShallowBeThyGames]

I heard on the radio today "No death toll has been established after home, possibly occupied were set alight", that was when I stopped giving a fuck about any of their motives.

I don't care if their families are living in poverty, I don't care if they can't find a job or have anything to do. Fuck them all, I hope those rubber bullets hurt.

If they want anyone to give a shit about them, they should start giving a shit about each other and THEIR own.

[bimblinghill]

@ShallowBeThyGames I'm only going on anecdotal evidence so far (reports of people turning up in BMWs etc), but I suspect we will find when some of those arrested hit court, we will find that most of them weren't deprived anyway. I also suspect that there has been extensive planning by various gangs to make the most of the next inevitable spark. Some people are making big money out of this.

[ShallowBeThyGames]

@bimblinghill Yeah, I've heard a few reports that say it all kicked off because so many are unhappy with police "treating them like criminals". Well stop breaking the fucking law then!

[bimblinghill]

@ShallowBeThyGames Yeah.. in most cases. I think the people in the original protest about Mark Duggan had a point, and in the light of recent news it does seem that there is something amiss with the original police story, but they were soon overwhelmed by the opportunists. Most of this is about greed, whether by organised gangs or kids grabbing what they can when they think no-one can stop them, but there are other things going on too.. I've had another thought which I'll put in another comment.

[emikochan13]

@ShallowBeThyGames If only the police were allowed to use rubber bullets -_-

[TekedixXx]

There have been scientific tests done that show mammals acting more rash and violent when stresses are added. This can also be seen in history, such as they mentioned in the 1980s, but also WWII. The economies go down, people have stress, and they take it out... they are related, but not politically... not technically... at least thats how i see it.

[niriop]

Why the hell should I believe the social worker about it not being related to cuts? He's a former CONSERVATIVE candidate; of course he's going to defend the ruling government.

[xVancha]

There's really no point having politicians on these programs anymore. The well-being of the country takes a backseat to trying to score political points. It's pathetic.

As far as the riots...I'm really not surprised. It's been a long time coming and it might even be needed (not that it's a good thing). The fact that people can look at this and even begin to think it's purely "yobbery" (which isn't to say none of it is) shows just how far they've rammed their heads in the ground.

[gillri]

this black guy is talking real sense, Livingstone is a tit IMO

[urquiza78]

Cameron's a prick we didnt vote for him or his party and it's the people in power who are the criminal's. Get real, liars.

[gillri]

@urquiza78 oh yes, they feral!!! you get real dude, they are trying to sort out the situation!!!

[urquiza78]

@gillri

Up the apples an pears u prick, sock account faker, u havent got a clue what your talking about, the mafia? I'm not condoning whats happened in anyway shape or form but u can't suppress the youth, crime is a response check out Emile u baiter/faker.

[gillri]

@urquiza78 who supressing the youth? they are supressing themselves knobhead, then blame other people

[urquiza78]

@gillri

Thought as much

[spaceman300]

I wonder if I've got time to go to London and loot a couple pounds of broccoli florets.!!

[TheMercilessEye]

Austerity measures, massive debt, the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, education cost increases beyond all reason, downgrades in government social spending while military budgets remain untouched... how far does anyone think the common man can be pushed before he decides to push BACK?

[TheMercilessEye]

These are merely the early rumblings. You're witnessing a people disenfranchised - betrayed by their governments, robbed by the wealthy - taking action in the only way they feel empowered any longer. This is far from over.

[SkidRowRadio]

great fuckin upload. nice one paul.

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

We need more of that HERE!!!!!!! At least the brits have some balls. For all the talk you'll get from amerikans, they are a bunch of brain dead morons who don't have the balls.

[prodigyat9]

@bamboo4tameshigiri

So if I worked hard for years to build a business I deserve to have some thug burn it or loot it because they are disenfranchised? And if I don't burn and loot I have no balls? You are fucked up.

[TheMercilessEye]

@bamboo4tameshigiri You're confusing 'having balls' with 'being frustrated beyond their wits' end.' This isn't 'gumption,' bamboo...it's desperation and rage.

[Sasukelegend5]

@bamboo4tameshigiri I'd take action if I had some chance. But I'm small, crippled, and can't really fight back. I tell ya. I'm ashamed of these people.

[jakluk4]

THANK YOU! were experiencing an almost total news media blackout on whats happening over there.

[prodigyat9]

To be clear I am writing this early on in the video but I have to say I most agree with Bailey. These are a small number of criminals not every young person. I also am not too happy with the reverend; while he was not to blame he should have discouraged the family from protesting outside the police station so early after the shooting. No one could have had answers for them at that time and it just opens the door for the a-holes to use the event for their own gains.

[TheSolitudinarian]

I'm seeing racists using this as an excuse to say 'I told you so' in terms on multiculturalism. The people rioting in the later hours are using this riot as an excuse to do whatever they want. Once they burnt a few cars, they probably got confident.

I just don't understand, is that they don't see that this doesn't help a thing if it was based on economy. It also got nothing to do with justice.

[DiwataMan]

These children? What is with this effort to infantilize? Everywhere I go, Youths, youths, youths, kids, children.

[CobraJones]

@DiwataMan The age of most of the rioters is from 11 to 21. So physically, they're youths. They also have the mindset of a 5 year old, so yeah, I'd call them children as well.

[DiwataMan]

@CobraJones How do you know there ages? Of the hundreds of arrests how many were 11 years old?

[CobraJones]

@DiwataMan Because I read the news? A vast majority of the arrests have been between those ages.

[DiwataMan]

@CobraJones Yeah, I've been reading the news and watching videos as well. I haven't run across this Lord of the Flies crap that's being thrown around everywhere. Clearly they're not going to consist of retired people in wheelchairs but c'mon. All I could find was one 11 year old. The rest of the guardian report I looked at was like this; of 156 arrests. 63% 12-21, 31.4%, 22-31, 4% 32-41, 1.3% 42-51. And I'm willing to bet the majority of the 12-21 were between 17-21. Children my ass.

[CobraJones]

@DiwataMan Yes. Children. I've met many a 20 or 21 year old child before.

[DiwataMan]

@CobraJones Your intent with that use is different than the guy in this video.

[TheMercilessEye]

@DiwataMan The ones with the most at stake in their futures will typically be the ones in the frontmost ranks of the rebellion. Having the biggest stake in the future, they have the most hope, you see...

[DiwataMan]

@TheMercilessEye Rebellion? What? They're rebelling against Sony? What are you trying to explain to me here? The guy in the video calls the looters children and practically everywhere I go I hear a similar thing, that's what I'm talking about.

[TheMercilessEye]

@DiwataMan You think this is just random looting and rioting by thugs taking advantage of a momentary perceived instability in the system?

[DiwataMan]

@TheMercilessEye You want me to account for every one over there? I don't what it is, a mob I suppose, clearly there's random looting and violence, maybe there's a few folks in there that have a different intent but who can tell. Maybe we should take a poll of the people doing the looting and burning and they can tell us.

[TheMercilessEye]

@DiwataMan No, I'm not asking you to do anything like that...just to step back and look at the big picture. There is nothing new going on, here, to any student of history. This scenario has been replayed innumerable times in the past. You're just catching the first few acts of the play, that's all.

[DiwataMan]

@TheMercilessEye "This scenario has been replayed innumerable times in the past" It has? What, when and where? The closest thing I can think of were the Rodney King riots.

[TheMercilessEye]

@DiwataMan Just wait and see. Like I said, this is only the beginning. Things may even get quiet again, for a little while. But it'll start up again, before long, somewhere else in western culture - maybe in more than one place...and then again, and again, in more places. Perhaps then you'll begin to notice a resemblance, then, to...oh, say, France, circa 1793...

[DiwataMan]

@TheMercilessEye lol, right. Like I just said to leakspinner, who are these "youths" going to throw out Parliament?

watch?v=bgOx6SgfsK4

[TheMercilessEye]

@DiwataMan If leakspinner is blaming it all exclusively on the economic climate, then he is, of course, as wrong as anyone blaming it exclusively on thugs and criminal elements. It's a mix of both, but the repercussions of the government cuts will persist long after the criminal elements have been locked up. You don't have to take my word for it, of course.

[Squagnut]

@TheMercilessEye That's nonsense, especially to anyone who has studied the French Revolution, which was fuelled by middle-class anger at the aristocracy. Mondeo Man isn't about to start torching Ikea.

[TheMercilessEye]

@Squagnut Tell it to Robespierre, dudesicle... :P

[TheMercilessEye]

@Squagnut Hmmm....middle class anger....artistocracy....that'­d be, let's see...the bourgeoisie vs. the Ultra rich, right? Anybody else notice any similarities in this scenario...?

[Squagnut]

@TheMercilessEye Heheh, aspiring to own a plasma TV doesn't make you a middle-Englander.

[TheMercilessEye]

@DiwataMan Let's see with someone with more knowledge and experience than yourself has to say about it...

watch?v=biJgILxGK0o&feature=fe­edf

[TheMercilessEye]

Correction: see WHAT someone with more knowledge... my bad

[DiwataMan]

@TheMercilessEye Next up, Minister Louis Farrakhan...lol

[TheMercilessEye]

@DiwataMan LOL....well...hardly...but I can understand your disbelief.

[steelhamster]

London calling to the faraway towns

Now war is declared, and battle come down

London calling to the underworld

Come out of the cupboard, you boys and girls

London calling, now don't look to us

Phoney Beatlemania has bitten the dust

London calling, see we ain't got no swing

'Cept for the ring of that truncheon thing

Says it all really

[optionsupdate]

@steelhamster a call out to the homosexuals

[Elenkhos]

Thank you .. hope you have a personal vid about this coming.. :)