Oh and rather have Poland own East Prussia than Russia. Makes no sense for Russia to have it does not even connect to the rest of the country. Also, gives Russia little foot hold near Poland that itself is scary. Would like East Prussia to return to Germany but if not then Poland be my second option. Russia should not own this land anymore and after the fall of the soviet union should of been returned to either the Germans or Poles.
This is my ancestors land of East Prussia. Home of philosophers and top military officers. Would like to see handed back to Germans so they can clean it up and try to recover the magic. This city was once beautiful and now its dark/cold in the Soviet style of buildings. Looks really horrible and needs to be brighten up and into major tourist location. I know I would want to go visit if that happened. Another plus is could boosts Polish tourism as well and better diplomacy.
My mother was just 8 as well that June. An older brother, and sister. After the Russian troops came in, well most of you know the rest of the story. Meanwhile her father was in Bobruisk fighting of Operation Bagration, which hit Bobruisk 3 days after my Mutti turned 8. Never seen again. My mother, her siblings were interned at a Russian concentration camp. Only my mother and her siblings survived until 1948, then were forced to the west by the Russians.
I am Polish, and I would perfer 1000 times to have a democratic Germany in the north of our border, then the Russian enclave, with the high concentration of hostile army, corruption, and total shit. Koenigsberg should be German, and I hope one day will be.
@Lucasi333 You are crazy my friend. The Germans would not take just the city. They would want the entire East Prussian territory. Germany should not even exist. They showed themselves as a civilized nation, but in reality they were barbaric like any other savage nations.
@Avalon400 Why wouldn't it happen? Everyone knows that Russia don't have any right for East-Prussia. Germany is a big country which have much to put on the table. I am more than sure that Germany would get this areas back if they really would want to. I am also hoping that when Germany wakes up, Finland can be with Germany and get lost Finnish areas back. Russia shouldn't have something which don't belong to them.
@1111hola Yes because that Russians had to take it back and they lost MILLIONS of lives in in the process. If I'm not mistaken the area was conquered by the Germans hundreds of years ago and Germanized.
>Yes because that Russians had to take it back and they lost MILLIONS of lives in in the process<
yeah? I think more Germans died than Russians during the genocide of east Prussia If I'm not mistaken the area was conquered by the Germans hundreds of years ago and Germanized.
and so? if a land belongs to Germany and all it's native population is German then I would consider it as theirs.
@1111hola How could they keep anything. They lost the war. As a matter of fact they lost two major wars. They unconditionally capitulated and had nothing to say. Germans should be happy they have any land and that they were allowed to speak thier own language. They could have been placed in zoo for display of future generations.
But Germany still exists thanks to the WW2 sponsorship by such companies from Germany and the USA as: IBM, Kodak, Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, Bayer, Siemens, Coca-Cola, Fanta, Standard Oil, Chase Bank, Random House Publishing!!!
@fanaber70 the poles had 10 times more men. But, as you have seen in history, the poles were crushed, and then they decided to blame the germans for the start of the war, being the bad losers they are. How come that since the polish-lithuanian commonwealth the only thing you did was to lose and get invaded? Then you play helpless; if you cant admit you lose, at least stop blaming others.
You should admit Germans and Russians were indefatigable and relentless in invading Poland all the time.It must have been worthwhile for them. Often was it the Russian-German collusion against Poland! Both Russsians and Germans erased Poland from the map of Europe for 123 years and when Poland re-emerged in 1918, she was really fast-growing country and even had the most modern Gdynia seaport in Europe. Then after WW2 ther was unsolicited communism imposed on Poland among others!!!
@fanaber70 The author's thoughts were so recognizable that I realized, after reading a few lines, it is an outstanding work. S@motnosc w sieci / Janusz L. Wisniewski
@fanaber70 every pomeranian city was or germanic origin, exept settin, which was origined by ancient slavs. Germans were colonizing poland since the beggining of the middle ages, and all of the polish coastal cities were germanic until ww2.
@fanaber70 look for the origins of the cities... all of the exept settin were either of german origin or germanized early on. And the fact that these cities are important is due to the germans, the cities in the polish period were never important before they were germanized.
@1111hola what period of time are you referring to? what cities did't reach 1000 poputation? BTW, Gdansk under Polish rule, as soon as in 16c reached 50,000-inhabitants and became one of largest cities on european continent. Its St.Mary church built in 15 century is designed for 25,000-worshipers and still is the largest church in the world.
@wladys678 under pole rule. the inhabitants were german as always before the russian destruction of east prussia. It doesnt matter if they were ruled by poles, the elites and the most powerfull inhabitants were always german, from poland to estonia. If the germans are as evil and opressors as you say, then whyt is germany the #1 in europe, when the tolerant and hardworking poles are not? because they were invaded 200 years ago? remember germany fought 2 world wars, much more destructive recently
@wladys678 under pole rule. the inhabitants were german as always before the russian destruction of east prussia. It doesnt matter if they were ruled by poles, the elites and the most powerfull inhabitants were always german, from poland to estonia. If the germans are as evil and opressors as you say, then whyt is germany the #1 in europe, when the tolerant and hardworking poles are not? because they were invaded 200 years ago? remember germany fought 2 world wars, much more destructive recently
@1111hola You must be more specific, inhabitants of what?. Your statetemts are vague, with no reference to time and place. Perhaps you are too ignorant to do that. "elites were german"-this is nonsense, it may only apply to specific enclaves,certainly not Poland whole. Germany is a top or close to top measured by per capita income, why? you should answer it first. don't ask me before you express your view. In these two wars Poland was destructed a lot more than Germany, also plundered by it.
@wladys678 oh yeah. Poland was destroyed by russia and germany. Germany was destroyed by britain, france, russia, america and at the end of the war by the whole world. Germany wasnt even allowed to govern itself until 20 or 30 years ago. France and nearly all of the usefull russia suffered the same as poland, and nonetheless they are very important today, not as poland. Im talking about the following cities: Tallin, Riga, Memel, which later became part of germany, settin, danzig and posen-
@wladys678 and the germans were the elites of these cities, until hitler decided to evacuate them during the war, perhaps you heard about that. Also there were settlements in romania, hungary bulgaria, russia, and later kazakhstan. There were no german cities that were polinized or however you say that. ANd you can stop talking shit about the germans in particular, they are the most polite creatures youll ever meet, my pride comes from my mixed latin blood, so if youre gonna insult someone, -
@wladys678 you'd rather insult me, just because you hate germans it doesnt mean they are monsters. I am not german, I havent even been there, I only have german and latin blood. so dont generalize germans the way I am.
And I have discussed with enough poles to say, that most of them are like you, who believe the germans are monsters and that they're perfect, and always victimize themselves. The poles are more facists than the germans and if you kept your pride apart you'd notice that.
@1111hola Do I hate Germans, or think they are monsters? No. But they are being highly manipulated by evil forces for decades or centuries, bringing ruin to European order and harmony. The short YT space forces me to simplify my thoughts, so I must reject such allegations. I have 1/4 German roots after my paternal grandmother, whose brother having married lutheran pastor's daughter ended up signing volksliste, a disgrace in Poland, they both moved to BRD later.
@wladys678 Poles were manipulated too. Their leaders wanted to fight germany before ww2 started, they thought germany was weak. I have polish ascendance from gdansk, and half fled when poland was invaded to Misiones, Argentina, where a polish comunity lies, and the rest (the males) joined the polish rebels to fight the russians off in the east of poland. And I must say I should have used a more formal (and without spelling errots) language, but im tired, so I couldnt. sorry.
@1111hola Yes, Poles were manipulated then, but not to a degree to bring disaester and mass murder to surrounding countries /as always in the name of a "noble"cause/, I don't think such manipulation would work in case of a war. By the way, Poland's government which was imposed in foreign sponsored bloody coup 1926-1939 was German-friendly and Pilsudski, who died in 35, was a lifelong Austrian and German agent.
@wladys678 they didnt even allow the germans to build a highway to connect germany and east prussia over danzig, and tried all they could to force a war with germany, remember the scream to "Berlin!"
For one of your firts comments, im not an argentinian expert on germans. Im not and expert, im 15 and I like history, and noone ever taught me anithing about germany and poland, so I dont see how I have been "manipulated" to believe wrong things. What I learnt, I learnt it by myself.
@1111hola It is not my intention to insult anybody, but to convey the truth in short, simply words, that must be shocking. Truth hardly known in the world and unknown by Germans themselves. How can you compare Poland's losses from Germans to other way around? and this is what most Germans are made to think. Poland had 36 million in 39 and 23 million in 1945, when war ended and only 1 million victims or less can be atributed to USSR.
@wladys678 perhaps it was due to the fact that poles lost a whole lot of their eastern territories. Germany lost 10 million people or so, and their losses in freedom and economic were way higher than the polish's, unless you blame the germans for the Soviet union taking over poland, if so, then you're right, poland did suffer more. But comparing the germans cassualties to the rest of the western countries, they pale in comparisson.
@1111hola As I pointed out above Poland lost 13 million, which is 1/3 population. and not average people, Germany deliberately tried to behead Poland by murdering first the educated and patriotic elite eg.professors of Krakow and Lwow university,"intelligenzaktion", disregarding their views and activity. such ways of running war was unknown since prechristian savages. How about1500 prisoners set ablaze alive in a locked prison, Lodz-Radogoszcz,Jan 17,1945-do Germans know these bestialities?
@1111hola As I pointed out above Poland lost 13 million, which is 1/3 population. and not average people, Germany deliberately tried to behead Poland by murdering first the educated and patriotic elite eg.professors of Krakow and Lwow university,"intelligenzaktion", disregarding their views and activity. such ways of running war was unknown since prechristian savages. How about1500 prisoners set ablaze alive in a locked prison, Lodz-Radogoszcz,Jan 17,1945-do Germans know these bestialities?
Generally in previous centuries there were much less people than nowadays. Overpopulation of Europe and generally the Planet Earth occurred only in the 20th century.
It's good that Gauleiter Erich Koch was humiliated by Poles. He collected his wealth (like plenty of other Nazis) by robbing others' properties - Polish, Jewish, Russian. He owned several tenement houses, two newspapers, great properties near Królewiec and Ciechanów. He had shares in the biggest Białystok's textile companies. During his proccess he admitted having two millions marks in gold (as said Janusz Tycnar in his book "Long life of a sick executioner").
@fanaber70 look for the origins of the cities... all of the exept settin were either of german origin or germanized early on. And the fact that these cities are important is due to the germans, the cities in the polish period were never important before they were germanized.
@1111hola fanaber70.Hey Argentinian "expert" of "germanic" roots. All your talk is nonsense. You don't even know what the term "germanic" means.You've been fooled along with most inhabitants of Germany of FALSE "germanic" mythology designed to serve militaristic expansion of antichristian Prussia, that CANCER of Europe. Thanks God that bandit state is deep in grave. If that hydra is ever to grow a new head, we are going to cut it OFF right at its neck promptly.
@wladys678 Prussia the "cancer"? oh I'm sorry you dont like protestantism, but normally, people are allowed to chose their religions freely, or at least in the western world, im not so sure in your usually-dominated slavic countries who normally dont even make their own laws.
@1111hola Unlike absolutist despotia called Prussia and Germany, which abided to "cuius regio, eius religio law", Poland adhered to full tolerance and freedom of religion. So what kind of NONSENSE are you talking about? What was later called E.Prussia had a large region called Warmia, where Polish Catholic population lived, mit was a direct part of Polish Kingdom. Protestants were numerous and fully accepted within Poland.
@1111hola Hey, who told you that bullshit, Kossina, that deplorable Mazur ? Look at names of these cities, large and small they are ALL Polish. If there are rare German names, like Torun, it means they were erected by Teutonic Knights after they treacherously launched their expansion by means of deceit. By the way, myriade of large and small cities within Germany have Slavic names including Berlin, Hannover,Hamburg,Lubeck,Schleswig,Leipzig,Drezden,Chemnitz,Passau-all kept secret in Germany.
@wladys678 you kidding me? even krakow, warsaw and posen were germanized. That they held a minority of poles doesnt change anything. all german cities do. and that they were of slavic origin a thousand years ago, when they didnt even reach 500 ihabitants, doesnt change it either. Its different if the cities had more than 100.000 inhabitants and it happened only 60 years ago.
@1111hola You are not using capital letters, what's wrong with you? You"ve been missinformed by some false German propaganda. Neither of these 3 cities ever had German majority. But it is true, that Krakow, depopulated following 3 Tatar invasions had significant German speaking population, which became totally polonized by end of 16th century. It dosn't mean all of them were Germans though, because many of them immigrated from areas of Lusatia where where remnants of Slavic language still exist
@wladys678 In 13 and 14 centuries when "german" immigration to Poland took place, lands to Laba/Elbe/ river and far beyond to the west were populated by volks using Slavic tongues, very close to Polish, as it is still the case in some enclaves, south of Berlin. So it is no surprise, that many of them were attracted by moving into Polish cities, where they could run their life free of German oppression, and you call them "Germans" BTW, they they did not call themselves that way, it is a new term
@1111hola GDANSK thrived under Polish rule 1466-1793 and became the bussiest seaport in the world exporting Polish products and importing into Poland. In January 1794 Polish military crew aided by Gdansk residents for a full month resisted a siege by Prussian army an only a treason of Russia, which joined Prussian secret conspiracy, ended its resistance.
@fanaber70 Leaving the cathedral, I went to the Moscow railway station and to pass the time I went to the bookstore. I examined the long shelves of books, when suddenly my attention was drawn to a misplaced volume in department of the Russian classics. My hands reached for the book against my will. It was a translation from Polish of "Loneliness in the net" by Janusz Wisniewski. I began reading and could not resist the desire to buy the book.
@benz500r France? who declared war first? was it germany or france?
germany just fought with poland because they wanted to be able to contact east prussia, but the poles not only did not give them a tiny parcel of land to comunicate with thir eastern territories, they also didnt allow them to build a highway on the polish land. You see, poland wanted to start a war with germany because they believed germany was weak after the treaty of versailles, as their army could only be 100,000 men and -
Germany was very weak after WW1 and had to pay reparations to their victims making their economy deplorable! Only stealthy and subversive sponsorship by America made Germany rise again!
@fanaber70 Hello, Fanaber, I've visited a library conference in St. Petersburg. The city has changed over the past two years. At night, all bathed in light, a huge number of cafes, restaurants and chic boutiques. While waiting for the train to Moscow, I visired a Catholic church of St. Catherine in the main street of the city Nevsky Prospekt. To my surprise, before leaving the church, I read a plaque on the wall: "Here was buried the last king of Poland Stanisław August Poniatowski".
@MzBUZZKILINGTON You love to see Russia as a hero which isn't true. Soviet Russia did excatly same than nazi Germany did. USSR attacked against neighbour countries with arms and demands. List of these countries are: Estonia, Finland, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania. Only difference is that Germany don't have these conquered land anymore but Russia still have. Of course people dare to ask areas back. Why wouldn't they?
@tupakki You are right. USSR attacked those countries. They even got their butt kicked in Finland for a while. The difference between Germany and USSR was that Germany lost the war. Soviets came on top and they could dictate certain conditions.
Russian should destroy your all cities and country for what you did for the world! You cry for what they did for Kalingrad? What you have done for Warsaw? Amsterdam and many more cities in all Europe!
@1000razyja Konigsberg, danzig, settin, torun, posen, etc... all the cities in east prussia. Remember the russians destroyed poland alongside with germany.
@1111hola It is true, Red Army senslessly destroyded these cities, except Torun. When in summer 2010 ago I visited Gubin, I saw a large gothic cathedral, one of largest in Europe, still without a roof, with bare walls, I asked myself why? But nothing can be compared to German deliberate ruining of every house and church in Warsaw, burning libraries with old manuscripts, arifacts, monuments.
@wladys678 perhaps, you can compare it with mass rapings, tortures and killings that occured when russia attacked east prussia. obiously, you're going to reply that the germans killed 6 million poles in concentration camps. You know how many people the russians killed in concentration camps in siberia?
@1111hola Poznan /Posen/ was not E.Prussia, it was called by prussians a Duchy of Poznan after it was stolen by Prussia twice in 1795 and 1815, properly called Wielkopolska, a craddle of Polish statehood. Here is a living proof "Prussia" has grown like a cancer.
@wladys678 Posen was taken by prussia and germanized, the province, in the west, and the city as a whole, by otto von bismark. Prussia grew as well as britain, france, spain, portugal, the netherlands and russia. Poles did not. And cancer is a bad thing, but prussia was not. why are you making such comparisson?
@1111hola Throughout most of 15 century, after Republic Novgorod joined Poland it was the largest country in the world with its eastern frontier on Ural, northern on White Sea. What is now Belarus,Ukraine,Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia,former Prussia - all joined Poland voluntarily,readily and promptly. All unlike 18&19 century Prussia that grew by force against will of people, but by will of financiers -it grew like a CANCER, like cancer it was burned to the root in 1945.
@1111hola France has grown very similar way and in the same period of Middle Ages as Poland, the Kapetinge dynasty resemble Piasts of PL. Britain somewhat different by reason of conquest. But Prussia COMPLETELY different from there three, despite all delusionary talks. It was an artificial ,illegal "kingdom" created by the bankers and conspirators on blood and tears of millions of people. Only Poland of these 4 has grown fully organically on the stock who lived together for over 4 millenia.
@1111hola To my best knowledge, Duchy of Prussia /without Gdansk,Royal Prussia and Warmia which remained in Poland proper/ emancipated from Poland in 1657, joined Brandenburg and declared kingdom in 1701.This makes at 750, or more years late than the 3 other countries.You can not make such comparison, it was a different epoch. Secon, F.GB,PL all were recognised by the pope, highest moral authority, who granted them crown. Prussia was created in defiance to pope, violating moral order, EU unity
@wladys678 at that time the pope was politizized and took bribes, the pope was the most inmoral thing and the lutherans tried to act morally and defied him. the poles just accepted corruption.
@1111hola What do you mean Poles being conquered gradually? 1st attempt do divide PL made by british and Istambul bankers by fomenting to organise Kozak insurgency 1648, it failed in 1651 when Polish army, though outnumbered, achieved victory in 3day battle of Beresteczko in which 70,000-Turks and Kozaks were killed vs only 750 Poles.
@1111hola What do you mean Poles being conquered gradually? 1st attempt do divide PL made by british and Istambul bankers by fomenting to organise Kozak insurgency 1648, it failed in 1651 when Polish army, though outnumbered, achieved victory in 3day battle of Beresteczko in which 70,000-Turks and Kozaks were killed vs only 750 Poles.
@1111hola Check all records abt battle of Beresteczko, if you come out with different figures, bring here. It is in all encyclopedias. Other similar 17c Polish victories are: 1607 Kircholm vs Swedes, 1611 Klushyno vs Russia&Swedes, 1683 ,Vienna vs Turks/together w.Austrians but under Sobieski command etc, in all Poles were outnumbered.
@1111hola Boleslaw Chrobry, Duke of Poland 992-1025 crowned king in the last year. 1002 refuses to pay tribute to the Emperor, invades emperors lands,orders to fix Poland's frontier posts in Saale river, captures Prague refuses to pay tribute. In return kaiser personally leads invasion of Poland but sieges of Glogow /Glogau/ and Niemcza fail. Result: Treaty of Bautzen1018 in which Poland retains Bautzen and Lusatia.Kaiser organises Kiev help but PL wins wins war on 2 fronts.
@1111hola 1109 German king Heinrich 5th /from 1111 emperor/ pearsonally leading a invasion of Poland with Bohemian aid. 3-week siege in which Germans fix hostage children of burghers to siege machines, fail. Futher advance ends in a decisive victory of Duke of Poland Boleslaw 3rd Wrymouth on Psie Pole /Hund Field/ near Wroclaw. Heinrich returns emptyhanded with loads of dead corpses. Boleslaw refuses to pay tribute to emperor exc.for western Pomerania and island Rugia retained by Poland.
@1111hola Gdansk was usually loyal to Poland, nevertheless there was a rebellion in 1577 ended with a battle of Lubieszow 1577 PL forces 2,500- vs Gdansk 12,000-mostly German mercenaries. Result: Polish losses 88 killed vs 4,200- Germans and Danzigers killed.
@1111hola Listen Hola, Polish military was superior in the whole 16 and centuries, period. Aove ALL european armies. I can provide numerous examples. It doesn't mean everything was perfect. These were German mercenaries from Germany under German command -check all records, Gdansk was the richest city of Europe only challenged by Spanish treasures of America.
@1111hola Year 1030 Poland's king Mieszko 2nd in a repressionary raid captures city-fortress of Hamburg, orders to burn it to the ground, returns to Poland unscathed, leads 2nd invasion.
@1111hola Second attempt, in 1656 also failed when joint Swedish and Northern German army, greattly financed by Britain, entered Poland to join internal conspiracy based on protestans, to crown Carl Gustav of Sweden, king of Poland. It took over 90% of country to make Poles realise they are being robbed and ruined , home laws disrespected, popular uprising drove them away in a chase across Baltic. Prince of Prussia commited treason by aiding invaders.
@1111hola "Poland wanted to invade Germany after ww1".Pls bring details. All I know, there was in 1939 or later a propagnadised rumor of alleged Pilsudski's plan for a preventative war during his lifetime. Total lie, ridiculous. Pils.was a client and agent of Germany and as such disarmed Polish army to faciliate German assault. Reason for this rumor was to coverup his treason.
@wladys678 I cant remember where the fuck I got that from, I had been furiously triying to recall from what history book that comes from, but I cant remember the name. The poles didnt allow germany to build a highway to communicate with east prussia to tense relationships and force the germans to declare war, as they believed that, because their army was more numerous and germany was weak, that they could easily defeat them and take more land from the germans, what proved otherwise.
@1111hola As I said, until 1926 PL army was decent, but in 1939 following 13 years of traitor Pilsudski regime it was disarmed and led by unskilled usurpers. England persuaded PL not to declare mobilisation, so only part of forces were assembled facing Sept1 German,Austrian&Slovak invasion and Sept17 Soviet invasion. Highway case was directly prior WW2. PL was allied w Germ,only Jan26,1939 declared alliance w UK.
@1111hola You are making a common mistake, most Germans do, some intentionally. You "forget" during WW1 Polish army and state did not exist for 123 years at 1918 - "thanks" to Prussian mole work at end of 18c. The "Kingdom of Poland" around Warsaw was not Poland it had no Polish army since 1830 and covered only 1/5 of Polish territory, it strictly depended of Russia that run antipolish policy, in part secrettly instigated by Prussia.
@1111hola According to Hitler's opinion expressed in 1939, shortly after September invasion, Polish soldier fought very well but the leadership and command failed. He was exactly right. As I said above, following 1926 coup lead by Pils.,with a record being Aus.& German mole, he deliberately disarmed & subverted Polish military & economy. You also forget Sept.17 invasion of USSR on Polandthat resolved that war.
@1111Hola, can you tell me why Germans and especially Prussians hate Poland so much? During German occupation of Poland WW2, we had numerous examples of it and every Pole was mortally threatened, there unaccountable actions aimed to biologically terminate existence of Polish nation.
@wladys678 we dont hate poles. You are the ones who hate us and end up getting on our nerves with all your insults. Moreover, if we hated you, it would be because the poles always play the victim, remember the commonwealth was the most powerfull in europe and won all its wars as you say and somehow ended up being crushed. Youre extremely proud and arrogant and history has proved that that is unfounded. and in the case of ww2 hitler wanted to make poland a german land, thats why he tried to -
@1111hola It is good you deny the hate, so I deny it too on our side. The only difference is Germans did kill Poles /not the other way around/ vs very hypothetical opposite situation that never took place. It is like a thief saying I steel, because...No, Poles would never commit such atrocities, because to do that one needs to abolish restrains of a certain moral system, which happened in communism and nazism.
@wladys678 you keep saying that poles never did do anything bad or never tried to do so and you keep insulting me. see how arrogant you are and how you try to victimize the poles?
no country is as good as you say, and if there was, it would certainly not be poland or any slavic country.
@1111hola What is arrogant in recalling the true events? You have asked me for it and I provided what I found in english wikipedia, which is allways less favorable to PL, than Polish version. You are free to display a different version if there is one. The idea of superiority-inferiority in case of D-PL, where there are no racial differences, in my perception is just a mental disease, I am afraid you may not be free of that. Poles never planned to kill any nation, neither to deport anybody.
@wladys678 terminate the existance of poles, he saw the germans as better than the rest of the persons and thats why he tried to expand germany, and as he saw the poles as inferior, he tried to take them out and put the "superior" germans on their place.
If you think about it, that would be exactly what you arrogant slavs would have done if you could take over germany... but you cant.
@wladys678 Virtually all the Polish officers who were captured by the Germans in 1939 survived the war. Virtually none of the Polish officers who were captured by the Soviets in 1939 did.
@brodl1 I agree with your statement, this regards to German aggression against Poland in Sept.1939. It is also true, at the same time Luftwaffe followed orders to attack unarmed civilians on roads, did level from air border city of Wielun with no military installation, executed dozens of Polish workers who defended central post office Gdansk, killed 200 thousand of mostly civilian non-combatants in Warsaw 1944, incl.throwing 3 year old children from multi story bldgs ,gang-raping women+killing.
@wladys678 I refuse to believe the lies that are constantly being churned out about supposed German attrocities during the war. The people who win the wars write the history, and never has this been more true than about the period between 1933-1945. Poland was used as a puppet by the Soviets, British and Americans to get the war going. When it was over both Poland and Germany were destroyed and the jews ruled the world. Rape by German soldiers was virtually unknown during the war.Communist lies.
@brodl1 I expected someone is going to protest, perhaps in good will, yet it is true. It is not communist or any other propaganda. Actually media totaly silece all Polish-Christian victims. Stanislaw Kicman, still living eyewitness, in 8/1944 7-10 y.o.child w mother, reports in 2009 YT hour-long interview. He was a resident of Warsaw-Wola, when Aug.2-5 Germans butchered 50,000 inhabitants from infants to elderly. All following Hitler-Himmler order to kill all Warsawians- historically documented
@wladys678 As I stated, I refuse to believe the lies any more. I used to believe all the lies we have been told all of our lives about the war, Hitler, the holocaust and so on. Then I took the trouble to investigate it and discovered that it was all lies. Now, when I hear the nonsense that you claim I know that it is a lie. The holocaust is a disgusting lie. It never happened. Yet, there are thousands of jew 'survivors' who claim to have seen gas chambers and German atrocities but who are lying.
@brodl1 H-H order to kill everyone was changed after a week, at request of Von dem Bach, to limit butcher to men and boys 14 & older. People were odered out of residential bldgs, he saw a German throwing 3 yo boy from window o 4th floor, while father was shot dead. Residents were amassed at St.Wojciech church a few days, Germans were desecrating church by sitting on altar, drinking holy wine, eating, few times they ordered girls out the church, gang-raped at gun point and shot dead.
@wladys678 No evidence for such an order exists. Just as no evidence whatsoever exists, or has ever existed, for gas chambers to kill people. It's all lies and I am tired of it. You Poles played a shameful part in this genocidal war. Because of your stubborn pride and unwillingness to deal with the Germans in a reasonable way you ensured the destruction of our continent and its control by the Soviet Communist jews and the American Capitalist jews.Your treatment of German civilians was a disgrace
@brodl1 I am sorry for you in America, as your minds are so roasted by liberal media that you turn your hopes into nazism unaware these are feces, other side of same forged and false coin.
Wola massacre has nothing to do with holocaust and knowledge of it is being suppressed by liberal media.
Wola was a working class borough inhabited by christians, these atrocities perpetrated by German 3rd Reich have nothing to do with liquidation of Ghetto which took place 16 months prior.
@wladys678 Just to clear up a point. I am not an American and would not even visit that jewish gangster state. It's really pointless you and I arguing about this any further. As far as I am concerned, we live under a mountain of lies regarding what Germany did during the war. Germany is a still a militarily occupied country 66 years after its defeat. It is illegal for a German to question any aspect of the war no matter how wild and exagerated the accusation. Anyone can spit on Germany.
@brodl1 Ist".Polish" government got to power in 1926 i a bloody coup sponsored jointly by UK and Germany, it was never elected since until WW2. This is why I don't consider it Polish. In Jan,1939 it switched close allegiance from Germany to UK. I am not supporting either side, I think it should have allied with CS, France, Yougoslavia instead. But this is a different theme and it was not easy either.
This is not good, when people are restrained as in Germany but nazi was not alternative.
@brodl1 You taking nonsense sir. But you are cut off of any reliable information so it is impossible to find understanding.
What I said, are documented facts.
"Poles played shameful part in genocidal war" by not letting being murdered competely...
Should I remind you, my mother's family was deported from central Poland along with 1.5 million Poles, Germans stealing all their property, my grandfather, a pharmacist, arrested on execution list.
@brodl1 Wola massacre was perpetrated by 36th SS Sonderbatallion led by dr Oskar Dirlewanger. It caused death of 65 thousand civilians withinone month but 50 within the first week of August44.
Dirlewanger himself was senteced by German court for aggravated rape of a 13 y.o. in 30's for "long" jail term of 2 years, but his sentence commuted. His battalion consisted of German criminals.
Stanislaw Kicman, born 1937, a quiet, balanced family man, Warsawian, find him by Google, YT.
@brodl1 Kicman's testimony, placed on YT Apr9,2010 in numerous film clips is backed by several other eyewitness, some testifying in 2009, 2010 and some filmed in prior decades. You are not going to be able to find them in american media.
St.Wojciech, a large red brick church luckily survived German destruction and is still standing in Wola, you can see it on YT, as well as other churches where residents were placed and locked.
Kicman was sent to Bergen Belsen concentration camp, but survived.
@brodl1 It seems like, you are trying to make me believe Hitler was planning to liberate Russia from communism and wanted Poland cooperation.
No sir, if he did there was nothing easier do do so, since Russians by millions surrendered, refusing to fight for hated regime. Hitler wanted Russia as lebensraum and Russians as white slaves, Poles as cannon meat.
This is why he lost.
I do not support pre war Poland's policy, but this is a separate theme.
@wladys678 I am not trying to make you believe anything. No one can make a person believe something. A person can only convince himself. Believe what you wish. All I know is that since the 'great victory' of 1945, of which Poland was supposedly a part, our civilisation has gone straight to hell and our race is dying. Thanks to Polish help to the Allies our continent is flooded with Muslims and niggers and wogs and ruled by jews. Well done! I hope you enjoy your victory.
@1111hola 973 battle of Cedynia bank of Odra river, invading forces of Murgrave Hodo and count Siegfried of Walbeck /father of chronicler Thietmar/ vs Polish Duke Mieszko of Poznan&Gniezno. Decisive Polish victory, almost all invading forces killed or sank in the marches. Abt 4000 troops on each side.
@1111hola Growth of Britain does resemble somewhat the German conquest of Prussia, also such Slavic lands as Polabia,Milsko/now Saxony?,Pomerania in 17thc, Silesia 1743, gradual paralising Poland from within by usurped Saxon dynasty 1698-1764 and the enactment of antipolish conspiracy in 3 stages 1772-95. But in 18c Polish nation was already formed for centuries, that's the difference. Now, in briish case this is why that country is also being called the United Kingdom of Enslaved Nations.
@wladys678 if the germans were growing like cancer and the way you say they would have been destroyed alredy. its the primitive logic of attacking all the one who grows too much. remember napoleon, rome, and all great empires.
@1111hola What you are trying to say is conquest is the only way to build nations. This is not true. In British case it resulted in denying Irish and all other Celtic majority their languages, atrocities of 17c, killing of 1/2 of Irish and impoverish of the rest, mass murder of Irish by way of famine in 19c, delayead by a thousand ys independence of Ireland. To this day many inhabtants of UK consider themselves part of different nations, although deprived their native languages.
@wladys678 Poland did not grow,are you joking?The LARGEST, most populous country in Europe for over 4 centuries 1387-1795. This was Poland which grew from 2 small provinces around Poznan and Krakow. Over a million Sq.km. Most importantly it grew by the will of people.
@wladys678 ok. the holy roman empire was mainly german. during the middle ages everything could grow too big provided the kings are good. look at normandy, burgundy, and whatsoever. And it didnt grow by the will mof people. It grew through marriages and whatever. rember it was the middle ages, nothing grew by peoples will.
And you destroy all those cities...WE, Poles, Poles, rebuild it. Anyway. Gdańsk was always Polish... you heard about "Spichlerz Europy" ? God...you germans always steal our lands... LOL
@1000razyja no its not. berlin is not made of wood and grass. just because a city had a remote polish origin it doesnt mean that it is polish. berlin was began as a tiny pole settlement, but what it is now, is not thanks to poles, just and danzig, settin, konigsberg and memel. The only thing you did was to have them under your command, as the growing machine had alredy been started by germany.
@gehtnichtgehtnicht. Stay in touch, mine OstPreussen Freund. I know that you mean well. That's why I am talking with you. I was attacked by lesser folks who don't understand that I mean well. I am just conversing about tough problems that we as Europeans have the job to fix. Your grandpa was a decent man...a farmer who cared for land without predijuce. More power to him. We are one in the eyes of God no matter how much some people want to make us different. Tschuess!!!
@gehtnichtgehtnicht. Erica Steinbach needs better PR. German nation deserves the memorial. However, you can't go about it by white washing history and assaulting other nationalities. Jews also withdrew from this project because she only shows German halocaust. OK, but it should be shown but in a bigger context of the entire halocaust in Europe. Steinback wants to make Germany as the biggest victim of this war. That's a borderline insanity. I enjoy talking to you!!!
@rechelieu nobody (may be some idiots) want something wash white .But the things which happened before the shit began should also not be forgotten. Ask a Pole for Bereza Kartuska,Jedwabne,Kielce or Brest orTost ...nobody want to know about ...also the 3 tries to make a pact with France to attack Germany in 1933 on 2 fronts,or the "visits" from German farmers by Polish miliz on German terretory day and night. Do you think USA did nothing when f.ex. Mexicanians tortured and killed Ame. farmers ?
@gehtnichtgehtnicht yes, you are right. However, nobody wants to hear about it because no matter how much Germany suffered (horrendous losses I admit), the rest of Europe suffered more. This exact scenario happens in U.S - it is called drug cartel, killing American citizens. Yet, U.S. uses diplomacy with Mexico to solve this bloodshed. Mexico hastes gringos and yet American soldiers did not enter Mexico as far I can tell...:-) German response to these intrusions was over the top, do you agree?
@gehnichtgehnicht. By the way, don't think I am anti German. I have German roots. My grandpa was from Rhineland, Bochum. But I also have Polish roots so my loyalties in this matter are really divided. On one hand, I admire Germany's success, on the other hand, it upsets me that people like Erica Steinback want to white wash the history and state that the Germans are the only and ultimate victims of this whole fiasco called WW2. Gruesse aus America, Freund!!!
@rechelieu Ah Steinbach...I understand... do you think 1The descendants from 5-17 millions people have right to build a memorial (which was already planed in the 70 th (I think) years by social democtatic politicans ? I think they have. Many hundred thousand civilians were killed when they had to fleet and millions lost their homes. That should be also not forgotten.Every nation think or claims this right for itsself. Poland mean Germany has no right ! This is not correct ...or ?
Auszug aus der VGG-Verfassungsbeschwerde vom 10.12.1992...Kriegsschuldfrage , int.League of nations and Germanys never worked on complaints (nearly 15000 !)...etc...etc.... I don`t know what is censured in the Staates.History is not so easy...as it looks...Gute Nacht ...nice evening...Glück auf !
@gehtnichtgehtnicht Gute Nacht!!! Maybe it is good we talk about stuff like this. Misunderstandings bring wars. Now we open our vaults of pain. You are right, history is not easy. I hope that this WW2 topic will eventually be just a topic for historians, not entire nations still angry about wrongs done to them one way or another. Talking is good, talking is progress so maybe after 1000 years Poland and Germany can finally look at each other as partners not eternal enemies.
@rechelieu I have no problems with Poles only with people which denies anything.I know they had it not easy in their history ( 3 partitions...etc.). In Ostpreussen my grandpa worked together with Poles,Russians,Lithuanians (granny was Lit) ,Belarussian s and so on.... it never interested a farmer from which country another people came ...the work must be done...
@gehtnichtgehtnicht I will try to find this. Thanks for the tip. I know that Pitsudski was a dictator the same Hitler was. That's why we should love living in democracies. I love it!!!
@gehnichtgehnicht. OK, sorry my friend. I really did not know that Russia offered OstPreussen twice to Germany. Than, I don't understand what people like Erica Steinbach want then. Can you explain to me? I understand the sadness of losing your homeland. That's heart breaking. I had to leave Poland due to communists. I still miss it. I am sure my old German neighbor misses it. It is only human. I am for United Europe, yet people like Steinbach open old wounds!!! Warum? Ich verstehe gar nichts.
@gehnichtgehnicht...I live in the States. I have a old neighbor who is German, specifically Ost Preussen German. He is 93 so he remembers that land of milk and honey. He and his wife left Deutschland in 1955 because they were tired of the same old stuff. When I asked him about Ost Preussen, he said it is history not worth discussing a
how unfortunate to loose one of the greatest places there ever was...
Annabethcatchb 1 week ago
The Germans better take a good look at what they lost....and thank Hitler for this.
jusitke07 1 month ago
Gruss aus Lwów und Wilno. Leider lieber Deutsche fur was ist passiert, ist nur ein Wort- Selberschuld.
lilkat1983 3 months ago
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Berlin was built by Poles, szwaben fags
ALL HAIL POLAND!!!
The Most Serene Commonwealth of Both Nations!
Serenissima Res Publica Utriusque Nationis!
Najjaśniejsza Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów!
Si Deus Nobiscum quis contra nos !
Pro Fide, Lege et Rege!
Gloria Polonia!
1000razyja 3 months ago
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Berlin was built by Poles, szwaben fags
ALL HAIL POLAND!!!
The Most Serene Commonwealth of Both Nations!
Serenissima Res Publica Utriusque Nationis!
Najjaśniejsza Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów!
Si Deus Nobiscum quis contra nos !
Pro Fide, Lege et Rege!
Gloria Polonia!
1000razyja 3 months ago
ok, I have to gonow, and I must say that my conclusion of these 3 hour debates were:
1-poles are way more polite than portugese
2-poles are way more educated than portugese
3-Poles are obiously smarter than the portugese
1111hola 3 months ago
I got tired of discussing with you poles and portugese. Im gonna take a break.
1111hola 3 months ago
yeah WE MISSING THIS CITY
alhilalclub1001 3 months ago
Blablabla, lost is lost, get over it! :-D
BigAndTall666 4 months ago 2
British aircraft destroyed Kaliningrad, a Russian town got completely broken
1975USSR 4 months ago
The Allied forces destroyed this beautiful city!
fanaber70 4 months ago
Königsberg=GERMANY,DEUTSCHLAND !!!
watson3340 4 months ago
Bring back the German Königsberg!
clydedsouza46 4 months ago
KÖNIGSBERG = RUSSIA
Karaganda1213 4 months ago
@Karaganda1213
KÖNIGSBERG is either Polish Krolewiec or German KÖNIGSBERG, but never Russian Kaliningrad. Russia has no real border with Poland!!!
fanaber70 4 months ago
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clydedsouza46 4 months ago
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clydedsouza46 4 months ago
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clydedsouza46 4 months ago
germans will get east prussia back...
kekedog 5 months ago
IF YOU WANT TO COME with a mood such as to leave a comment then I'll tell you - HERE WILL NOT BE HAPPY
MrSLAVA39 5 months ago
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Oh and rather have Poland own East Prussia than Russia. Makes no sense for Russia to have it does not even connect to the rest of the country. Also, gives Russia little foot hold near Poland that itself is scary. Would like East Prussia to return to Germany but if not then Poland be my second option. Russia should not own this land anymore and after the fall of the soviet union should of been returned to either the Germans or Poles.
123GlobalFailures 6 months ago
This is my ancestors land of East Prussia. Home of philosophers and top military officers. Would like to see handed back to Germans so they can clean it up and try to recover the magic. This city was once beautiful and now its dark/cold in the Soviet style of buildings. Looks really horrible and needs to be brighten up and into major tourist location. I know I would want to go visit if that happened. Another plus is could boosts Polish tourism as well and better diplomacy.
123GlobalFailures 6 months ago 2
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@imabadguykillmepleas
My mother was just 8 as well that June. An older brother, and sister. After the Russian troops came in, well most of you know the rest of the story. Meanwhile her father was in Bobruisk fighting of Operation Bagration, which hit Bobruisk 3 days after my Mutti turned 8. Never seen again. My mother, her siblings were interned at a Russian concentration camp. Only my mother and her siblings survived until 1948, then were forced to the west by the Russians.
7HochMeister7 7 months ago
I am Polish, and I would perfer 1000 times to have a democratic Germany in the north of our border, then the Russian enclave, with the high concentration of hostile army, corruption, and total shit. Koenigsberg should be German, and I hope one day will be.
Lucasi333 7 months ago 2
@Lucasi333 I am pole is well and confirm and support what is written here german buy back konigsberg please
tommi59tk 5 months ago
@Lucasi333 You are crazy my friend. The Germans would not take just the city. They would want the entire East Prussian territory. Germany should not even exist. They showed themselves as a civilized nation, but in reality they were barbaric like any other savage nations.
benz500r 4 months ago
@benz500r
Germans with their grasping expansionist desires will always remain barbaric lol!
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 I agree. No argument there.
benz500r 4 months ago
@benz500r go back to the kibbutz liar
brodl1 2 months ago
@Lucasi333 PolishFag
SkylineTL 4 months ago
If Germany were to ever get the city back, they would restore it to perfection, but ofcourse this will never happen.
Avalon400 7 months ago
@Avalon400 Why wouldn't it happen? Everyone knows that Russia don't have any right for East-Prussia. Germany is a big country which have much to put on the table. I am more than sure that Germany would get this areas back if they really would want to. I am also hoping that when Germany wakes up, Finland can be with Germany and get lost Finnish areas back. Russia shouldn't have something which don't belong to them.
tupakki 7 months ago
This we owe to the "Führer"!
truecologne 7 months ago
Das haben wir unserem "Führer" zu verdanken!
truecologne 7 months ago
Maybe Germany shouldn't have invaded Russia in the first place and tried to exterminate the population. Now you dare ask for it back?
MzBUZZKILINGTON 8 months ago
@MzBUZZKILINGTON at least the Germans didnt keep the Russian land.
1111hola 7 months ago
@1111hola Yes because that Russians had to take it back and they lost MILLIONS of lives in in the process. If I'm not mistaken the area was conquered by the Germans hundreds of years ago and Germanized.
MzBUZZKILINGTON 7 months ago
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@MzBUZZKILINGTON
>Yes because that Russians had to take it back and they lost MILLIONS of lives in in the process<
yeah? I think more Germans died than Russians during the genocide of east Prussia If I'm not mistaken the area was conquered by the Germans hundreds of years ago and Germanized.
and so? if a land belongs to Germany and all it's native population is German then I would consider it as theirs.
1111hola 7 months ago
@1111hola How could they keep anything. They lost the war. As a matter of fact they lost two major wars. They unconditionally capitulated and had nothing to say. Germans should be happy they have any land and that they were allowed to speak thier own language. They could have been placed in zoo for display of future generations.
benz500r 4 months ago
@benz500r
But Germany still exists thanks to the WW2 sponsorship by such companies from Germany and the USA as: IBM, Kodak, Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, Bayer, Siemens, Coca-Cola, Fanta, Standard Oil, Chase Bank, Random House Publishing!!!
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 the poles had 10 times more men. But, as you have seen in history, the poles were crushed, and then they decided to blame the germans for the start of the war, being the bad losers they are. How come that since the polish-lithuanian commonwealth the only thing you did was to lose and get invaded? Then you play helpless; if you cant admit you lose, at least stop blaming others.
1111hola 4 months ago
@1111hola
You should admit Germans and Russians were indefatigable and relentless in invading Poland all the time.It must have been worthwhile for them. Often was it the Russian-German collusion against Poland! Both Russsians and Germans erased Poland from the map of Europe for 123 years and when Poland re-emerged in 1918, she was really fast-growing country and even had the most modern Gdynia seaport in Europe. Then after WW2 ther was unsolicited communism imposed on Poland among others!!!
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 The author's thoughts were so recognizable that I realized, after reading a few lines, it is an outstanding work. S@motnosc w sieci / Janusz L. Wisniewski
Aleph500adam 4 months ago
@fanaber70 danzig was taken from the germans after ww1, so it was the germans who actually made gdansk modern, not the poles.
1111hola 4 months ago
@1111hola
All Poles took from Germans after WW2 was just regaining what was Polish from time immemorial!
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 every pomeranian city was or germanic origin, exept settin, which was origined by ancient slavs. Germans were colonizing poland since the beggining of the middle ages, and all of the polish coastal cities were germanic until ww2.
1111hola 4 months ago
@1111hola
Don't ever confuse Germanic with Germanized! Polish Slavic cities were Germanized! Then they were re-Polonized as they had always been.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 look for the origins of the cities... all of the exept settin were either of german origin or germanized early on. And the fact that these cities are important is due to the germans, the cities in the polish period were never important before they were germanized.
1111hola 4 months ago
@1111hola
It's only German illusion, megalomania and propaganda that spreads the infamous falsehood that those cities were unimportant under the Polish rule!
fanaber70 3 months ago
@fanaber70 during polish rule, those cities didnt even reach a thousand inhabitants!
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola what period of time are you referring to? what cities did't reach 1000 poputation? BTW, Gdansk under Polish rule, as soon as in 16c reached 50,000-inhabitants and became one of largest cities on european continent. Its St.Mary church built in 15 century is designed for 25,000-worshipers and still is the largest church in the world.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 under pole rule. the inhabitants were german as always before the russian destruction of east prussia. It doesnt matter if they were ruled by poles, the elites and the most powerfull inhabitants were always german, from poland to estonia. If the germans are as evil and opressors as you say, then whyt is germany the #1 in europe, when the tolerant and hardworking poles are not? because they were invaded 200 years ago? remember germany fought 2 world wars, much more destructive recently
1111hola 3 months ago
@wladys678 under pole rule. the inhabitants were german as always before the russian destruction of east prussia. It doesnt matter if they were ruled by poles, the elites and the most powerfull inhabitants were always german, from poland to estonia. If the germans are as evil and opressors as you say, then whyt is germany the #1 in europe, when the tolerant and hardworking poles are not? because they were invaded 200 years ago? remember germany fought 2 world wars, much more destructive recently
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola You must be more specific, inhabitants of what?. Your statetemts are vague, with no reference to time and place. Perhaps you are too ignorant to do that. "elites were german"-this is nonsense, it may only apply to specific enclaves,certainly not Poland whole. Germany is a top or close to top measured by per capita income, why? you should answer it first. don't ask me before you express your view. In these two wars Poland was destructed a lot more than Germany, also plundered by it.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 oh yeah. Poland was destroyed by russia and germany. Germany was destroyed by britain, france, russia, america and at the end of the war by the whole world. Germany wasnt even allowed to govern itself until 20 or 30 years ago. France and nearly all of the usefull russia suffered the same as poland, and nonetheless they are very important today, not as poland. Im talking about the following cities: Tallin, Riga, Memel, which later became part of germany, settin, danzig and posen-
1111hola 3 months ago
@wladys678 and the germans were the elites of these cities, until hitler decided to evacuate them during the war, perhaps you heard about that. Also there were settlements in romania, hungary bulgaria, russia, and later kazakhstan. There were no german cities that were polinized or however you say that. ANd you can stop talking shit about the germans in particular, they are the most polite creatures youll ever meet, my pride comes from my mixed latin blood, so if youre gonna insult someone, -
1111hola 3 months ago
@wladys678 you'd rather insult me, just because you hate germans it doesnt mean they are monsters. I am not german, I havent even been there, I only have german and latin blood. so dont generalize germans the way I am.
And I have discussed with enough poles to say, that most of them are like you, who believe the germans are monsters and that they're perfect, and always victimize themselves. The poles are more facists than the germans and if you kept your pride apart you'd notice that.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Do I hate Germans, or think they are monsters? No. But they are being highly manipulated by evil forces for decades or centuries, bringing ruin to European order and harmony. The short YT space forces me to simplify my thoughts, so I must reject such allegations. I have 1/4 German roots after my paternal grandmother, whose brother having married lutheran pastor's daughter ended up signing volksliste, a disgrace in Poland, they both moved to BRD later.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 Poles were manipulated too. Their leaders wanted to fight germany before ww2 started, they thought germany was weak. I have polish ascendance from gdansk, and half fled when poland was invaded to Misiones, Argentina, where a polish comunity lies, and the rest (the males) joined the polish rebels to fight the russians off in the east of poland. And I must say I should have used a more formal (and without spelling errots) language, but im tired, so I couldnt. sorry.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Yes, Poles were manipulated then, but not to a degree to bring disaester and mass murder to surrounding countries /as always in the name of a "noble"cause/, I don't think such manipulation would work in case of a war. By the way, Poland's government which was imposed in foreign sponsored bloody coup 1926-1939 was German-friendly and Pilsudski, who died in 35, was a lifelong Austrian and German agent.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 they didnt even allow the germans to build a highway to connect germany and east prussia over danzig, and tried all they could to force a war with germany, remember the scream to "Berlin!"
For one of your firts comments, im not an argentinian expert on germans. Im not and expert, im 15 and I like history, and noone ever taught me anithing about germany and poland, so I dont see how I have been "manipulated" to believe wrong things. What I learnt, I learnt it by myself.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola It is not my intention to insult anybody, but to convey the truth in short, simply words, that must be shocking. Truth hardly known in the world and unknown by Germans themselves. How can you compare Poland's losses from Germans to other way around? and this is what most Germans are made to think. Poland had 36 million in 39 and 23 million in 1945, when war ended and only 1 million victims or less can be atributed to USSR.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 perhaps it was due to the fact that poles lost a whole lot of their eastern territories. Germany lost 10 million people or so, and their losses in freedom and economic were way higher than the polish's, unless you blame the germans for the Soviet union taking over poland, if so, then you're right, poland did suffer more. But comparing the germans cassualties to the rest of the western countries, they pale in comparisson.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola As I pointed out above Poland lost 13 million, which is 1/3 population. and not average people, Germany deliberately tried to behead Poland by murdering first the educated and patriotic elite eg.professors of Krakow and Lwow university,"intelligenzaktion", disregarding their views and activity. such ways of running war was unknown since prechristian savages. How about1500 prisoners set ablaze alive in a locked prison, Lodz-Radogoszcz,Jan 17,1945-do Germans know these bestialities?
wladys678 3 months ago
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@1111hola As I pointed out above Poland lost 13 million, which is 1/3 population. and not average people, Germany deliberately tried to behead Poland by murdering first the educated and patriotic elite eg.professors of Krakow and Lwow university,"intelligenzaktion", disregarding their views and activity. such ways of running war was unknown since prechristian savages. How about1500 prisoners set ablaze alive in a locked prison, Lodz-Radogoszcz,Jan 17,1945-do Germans know these bestialities?
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola
Generally in previous centuries there were much less people than nowadays. Overpopulation of Europe and generally the Planet Earth occurred only in the 20th century.
fanaber70 3 months ago
@1111hola
It's good that Gauleiter Erich Koch was humiliated by Poles. He collected his wealth (like plenty of other Nazis) by robbing others' properties - Polish, Jewish, Russian. He owned several tenement houses, two newspapers, great properties near Królewiec and Ciechanów. He had shares in the biggest Białystok's textile companies. During his proccess he admitted having two millions marks in gold (as said Janusz Tycnar in his book "Long life of a sick executioner").
fanaber70 3 months ago
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@fanaber70 look for the origins of the cities... all of the exept settin were either of german origin or germanized early on. And the fact that these cities are important is due to the germans, the cities in the polish period were never important before they were germanized.
1111hola 4 months ago
@1111hola fanaber70.Hey Argentinian "expert" of "germanic" roots. All your talk is nonsense. You don't even know what the term "germanic" means.You've been fooled along with most inhabitants of Germany of FALSE "germanic" mythology designed to serve militaristic expansion of antichristian Prussia, that CANCER of Europe. Thanks God that bandit state is deep in grave. If that hydra is ever to grow a new head, we are going to cut it OFF right at its neck promptly.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 Prussia the "cancer"? oh I'm sorry you dont like protestantism, but normally, people are allowed to chose their religions freely, or at least in the western world, im not so sure in your usually-dominated slavic countries who normally dont even make their own laws.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Unlike absolutist despotia called Prussia and Germany, which abided to "cuius regio, eius religio law", Poland adhered to full tolerance and freedom of religion. So what kind of NONSENSE are you talking about? What was later called E.Prussia had a large region called Warmia, where Polish Catholic population lived, mit was a direct part of Polish Kingdom. Protestants were numerous and fully accepted within Poland.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola Hey, who told you that bullshit, Kossina, that deplorable Mazur ? Look at names of these cities, large and small they are ALL Polish. If there are rare German names, like Torun, it means they were erected by Teutonic Knights after they treacherously launched their expansion by means of deceit. By the way, myriade of large and small cities within Germany have Slavic names including Berlin, Hannover,Hamburg,Lubeck,Schleswig,Leipzig,Drezden,Chemnitz,Passau-all kept secret in Germany.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 you kidding me? even krakow, warsaw and posen were germanized. That they held a minority of poles doesnt change anything. all german cities do. and that they were of slavic origin a thousand years ago, when they didnt even reach 500 ihabitants, doesnt change it either. Its different if the cities had more than 100.000 inhabitants and it happened only 60 years ago.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola You are not using capital letters, what's wrong with you? You"ve been missinformed by some false German propaganda. Neither of these 3 cities ever had German majority. But it is true, that Krakow, depopulated following 3 Tatar invasions had significant German speaking population, which became totally polonized by end of 16th century. It dosn't mean all of them were Germans though, because many of them immigrated from areas of Lusatia where where remnants of Slavic language still exist
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 In 13 and 14 centuries when "german" immigration to Poland took place, lands to Laba/Elbe/ river and far beyond to the west were populated by volks using Slavic tongues, very close to Polish, as it is still the case in some enclaves, south of Berlin. So it is no surprise, that many of them were attracted by moving into Polish cities, where they could run their life free of German oppression, and you call them "Germans" BTW, they they did not call themselves that way, it is a new term
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola GDANSK thrived under Polish rule 1466-1793 and became the bussiest seaport in the world exporting Polish products and importing into Poland. In January 1794 Polish military crew aided by Gdansk residents for a full month resisted a siege by Prussian army an only a treason of Russia, which joined Prussian secret conspiracy, ended its resistance.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola
Anyway Poland is in EU and NATO these days which means it's in top-rank European countries!
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 Leaving the cathedral, I went to the Moscow railway station and to pass the time I went to the bookstore. I examined the long shelves of books, when suddenly my attention was drawn to a misplaced volume in department of the Russian classics. My hands reached for the book against my will. It was a translation from Polish of "Loneliness in the net" by Janusz Wisniewski. I began reading and could not resist the desire to buy the book.
Aleph500adam 4 months ago
@fanaber70 Germany is too! And + germany is the top 1 country in europe
1111hola 4 months ago
@benz500r you could say the same for poland or russia or france or the german colonies.
1111hola 4 months ago
@1111hola Absolutely not. Countries that you have mentioned did not start any global conflicts.
benz500r 4 months ago
@benz500r France? who declared war first? was it germany or france?
germany just fought with poland because they wanted to be able to contact east prussia, but the poles not only did not give them a tiny parcel of land to comunicate with thir eastern territories, they also didnt allow them to build a highway on the polish land. You see, poland wanted to start a war with germany because they believed germany was weak after the treaty of versailles, as their army could only be 100,000 men and -
1111hola 4 months ago
@1111hola
Germany was very weak after WW1 and had to pay reparations to their victims making their economy deplorable! Only stealthy and subversive sponsorship by America made Germany rise again!
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 Hello, Fanaber, I've visited a library conference in St. Petersburg. The city has changed over the past two years. At night, all bathed in light, a huge number of cafes, restaurants and chic boutiques. While waiting for the train to Moscow, I visired a Catholic church of St. Catherine in the main street of the city Nevsky Prospekt. To my surprise, before leaving the church, I read a plaque on the wall: "Here was buried the last king of Poland Stanisław August Poniatowski".
Aleph500adam 4 months ago
@MzBUZZKILINGTON You love to see Russia as a hero which isn't true. Soviet Russia did excatly same than nazi Germany did. USSR attacked against neighbour countries with arms and demands. List of these countries are: Estonia, Finland, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania. Only difference is that Germany don't have these conquered land anymore but Russia still have. Of course people dare to ask areas back. Why wouldn't they?
tupakki 7 months ago
@tupakki You are right. USSR attacked those countries. They even got their butt kicked in Finland for a while. The difference between Germany and USSR was that Germany lost the war. Soviets came on top and they could dictate certain conditions.
benz500r 4 months ago
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NikolaiOrlov21 8 months ago
ктото думает что калинонградь не наша земля либо деду моему досталась за фука крепись шпана уроки приподим
serdg34 8 months ago
Russian should destroy your all cities and country for what you did for the world! You cry for what they did for Kalingrad? What you have done for Warsaw? Amsterdam and many more cities in all Europe!
1000razyja 8 months ago 11
@1000razyja
What did the USSR to Finland, to the Baltic states? What about Katyn, what about Siberian gulags, äh??
antiochostheos 7 months ago
@1000razyja Konigsberg, danzig, settin, torun, posen, etc... all the cities in east prussia. Remember the russians destroyed poland alongside with germany.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola It is true, Red Army senslessly destroyded these cities, except Torun. When in summer 2010 ago I visited Gubin, I saw a large gothic cathedral, one of largest in Europe, still without a roof, with bare walls, I asked myself why? But nothing can be compared to German deliberate ruining of every house and church in Warsaw, burning libraries with old manuscripts, arifacts, monuments.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 perhaps, you can compare it with mass rapings, tortures and killings that occured when russia attacked east prussia. obiously, you're going to reply that the germans killed 6 million poles in concentration camps. You know how many people the russians killed in concentration camps in siberia?
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Poznan /Posen/ was not E.Prussia, it was called by prussians a Duchy of Poznan after it was stolen by Prussia twice in 1795 and 1815, properly called Wielkopolska, a craddle of Polish statehood. Here is a living proof "Prussia" has grown like a cancer.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 Posen was taken by prussia and germanized, the province, in the west, and the city as a whole, by otto von bismark. Prussia grew as well as britain, france, spain, portugal, the netherlands and russia. Poles did not. And cancer is a bad thing, but prussia was not. why are you making such comparisson?
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Throughout most of 15 century, after Republic Novgorod joined Poland it was the largest country in the world with its eastern frontier on Ural, northern on White Sea. What is now Belarus,Ukraine,Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia,former Prussia - all joined Poland voluntarily,readily and promptly. All unlike 18&19 century Prussia that grew by force against will of people, but by will of financiers -it grew like a CANCER, like cancer it was burned to the root in 1945.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 just like the poles, who were gradually conquered. did the french or brittish grow any different from prussia?
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola France has grown very similar way and in the same period of Middle Ages as Poland, the Kapetinge dynasty resemble Piasts of PL. Britain somewhat different by reason of conquest. But Prussia COMPLETELY different from there three, despite all delusionary talks. It was an artificial ,illegal "kingdom" created by the bankers and conspirators on blood and tears of millions of people. Only Poland of these 4 has grown fully organically on the stock who lived together for over 4 millenia.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 ok.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola To my best knowledge, Duchy of Prussia /without Gdansk,Royal Prussia and Warmia which remained in Poland proper/ emancipated from Poland in 1657, joined Brandenburg and declared kingdom in 1701.This makes at 750, or more years late than the 3 other countries.You can not make such comparison, it was a different epoch. Secon, F.GB,PL all were recognised by the pope, highest moral authority, who granted them crown. Prussia was created in defiance to pope, violating moral order, EU unity
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 at that time the pope was politizized and took bribes, the pope was the most inmoral thing and the lutherans tried to act morally and defied him. the poles just accepted corruption.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola What do you mean Poles being conquered gradually? 1st attempt do divide PL made by british and Istambul bankers by fomenting to organise Kozak insurgency 1648, it failed in 1651 when Polish army, though outnumbered, achieved victory in 3day battle of Beresteczko in which 70,000-Turks and Kozaks were killed vs only 750 Poles.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola What do you mean Poles being conquered gradually? 1st attempt do divide PL made by british and Istambul bankers by fomenting to organise Kozak insurgency 1648, it failed in 1651 when Polish army, though outnumbered, achieved victory in 3day battle of Beresteczko in which 70,000-Turks and Kozaks were killed vs only 750 Poles.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 hahahaha... and the spartans beat 1 million with 300
just look at the map and see if it was gradually conquered or not
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Check all records abt battle of Beresteczko, if you come out with different figures, bring here. It is in all encyclopedias. Other similar 17c Polish victories are: 1607 Kircholm vs Swedes, 1611 Klushyno vs Russia&Swedes, 1683 ,Vienna vs Turks/together w.Austrians but under Sobieski command etc, in all Poles were outnumbered.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola 1621 battle of Chocim/khotym/ PL 50,000 vs 150,000-Turks,Tatars,Moldovans,Valachians PL losses 14.500 vs 42,000- 52 years later: 1673 same Chocim PL losses "insignificant" vs 30,000-Turks killed.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 compare those battles with the ones poland fough against germany during history. see how they are inversely proportional?
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Boleslaw Chrobry, Duke of Poland 992-1025 crowned king in the last year. 1002 refuses to pay tribute to the Emperor, invades emperors lands,orders to fix Poland's frontier posts in Saale river, captures Prague refuses to pay tribute. In return kaiser personally leads invasion of Poland but sieges of Glogow /Glogau/ and Niemcza fail. Result: Treaty of Bautzen1018 in which Poland retains Bautzen and Lusatia.Kaiser organises Kiev help but PL wins wins war on 2 fronts.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola 1109 German king Heinrich 5th /from 1111 emperor/ pearsonally leading a invasion of Poland with Bohemian aid. 3-week siege in which Germans fix hostage children of burghers to siege machines, fail. Futher advance ends in a decisive victory of Duke of Poland Boleslaw 3rd Wrymouth on Psie Pole /Hund Field/ near Wroclaw. Heinrich returns emptyhanded with loads of dead corpses. Boleslaw refuses to pay tribute to emperor exc.for western Pomerania and island Rugia retained by Poland.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola Gdansk was usually loyal to Poland, nevertheless there was a rebellion in 1577 ended with a battle of Lubieszow 1577 PL forces 2,500- vs Gdansk 12,000-mostly German mercenaries. Result: Polish losses 88 killed vs 4,200- Germans and Danzigers killed.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 german's pole mercenaries and rebel poles were repelled by poles. what other result would you expect from a civillian rebellion.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola Listen Hola, Polish military was superior in the whole 16 and centuries, period. Aove ALL european armies. I can provide numerous examples. It doesn't mean everything was perfect. These were German mercenaries from Germany under German command -check all records, Gdansk was the richest city of Europe only challenged by Spanish treasures of America.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola Year 1030 Poland's king Mieszko 2nd in a repressionary raid captures city-fortress of Hamburg, orders to burn it to the ground, returns to Poland unscathed, leads 2nd invasion.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola Second attempt, in 1656 also failed when joint Swedish and Northern German army, greattly financed by Britain, entered Poland to join internal conspiracy based on protestans, to crown Carl Gustav of Sweden, king of Poland. It took over 90% of country to make Poles realise they are being robbed and ruined , home laws disrespected, popular uprising drove them away in a chase across Baltic. Prince of Prussia commited treason by aiding invaders.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 poland wanted to invade germany after ww1... its the same history. dont play innocent.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola "Poland wanted to invade Germany after ww1".Pls bring details. All I know, there was in 1939 or later a propagnadised rumor of alleged Pilsudski's plan for a preventative war during his lifetime. Total lie, ridiculous. Pils.was a client and agent of Germany and as such disarmed Polish army to faciliate German assault. Reason for this rumor was to coverup his treason.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 I cant remember where the fuck I got that from, I had been furiously triying to recall from what history book that comes from, but I cant remember the name. The poles didnt allow germany to build a highway to communicate with east prussia to tense relationships and force the germans to declare war, as they believed that, because their army was more numerous and germany was weak, that they could easily defeat them and take more land from the germans, what proved otherwise.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola As I said, until 1926 PL army was decent, but in 1939 following 13 years of traitor Pilsudski regime it was disarmed and led by unskilled usurpers. England persuaded PL not to declare mobilisation, so only part of forces were assembled facing Sept1 German,Austrian&Slovak invasion and Sept17 Soviet invasion. Highway case was directly prior WW2. PL was allied w Germ,only Jan26,1939 declared alliance w UK.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 I can do exactly the inverse thing by speaking of ww1 and 2. what was it we were discussing?
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola You are making a common mistake, most Germans do, some intentionally. You "forget" during WW1 Polish army and state did not exist for 123 years at 1918 - "thanks" to Prussian mole work at end of 18c. The "Kingdom of Poland" around Warsaw was not Poland it had no Polish army since 1830 and covered only 1/5 of Polish territory, it strictly depended of Russia that run antipolish policy, in part secrettly instigated by Prussia.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola According to Hitler's opinion expressed in 1939, shortly after September invasion, Polish soldier fought very well but the leadership and command failed. He was exactly right. As I said above, following 1926 coup lead by Pils.,with a record being Aus.& German mole, he deliberately disarmed & subverted Polish military & economy. You also forget Sept.17 invasion of USSR on Polandthat resolved that war.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 but what is it were discussing!
it doesnt matter if the poles were independent or not, their homeland was double conquered and that seriously sucks.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111Hola, can you tell me why Germans and especially Prussians hate Poland so much? During German occupation of Poland WW2, we had numerous examples of it and every Pole was mortally threatened, there unaccountable actions aimed to biologically terminate existence of Polish nation.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 we dont hate poles. You are the ones who hate us and end up getting on our nerves with all your insults. Moreover, if we hated you, it would be because the poles always play the victim, remember the commonwealth was the most powerfull in europe and won all its wars as you say and somehow ended up being crushed. Youre extremely proud and arrogant and history has proved that that is unfounded. and in the case of ww2 hitler wanted to make poland a german land, thats why he tried to -
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola It is good you deny the hate, so I deny it too on our side. The only difference is Germans did kill Poles /not the other way around/ vs very hypothetical opposite situation that never took place. It is like a thief saying I steel, because...No, Poles would never commit such atrocities, because to do that one needs to abolish restrains of a certain moral system, which happened in communism and nazism.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 you keep saying that poles never did do anything bad or never tried to do so and you keep insulting me. see how arrogant you are and how you try to victimize the poles?
no country is as good as you say, and if there was, it would certainly not be poland or any slavic country.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola What is arrogant in recalling the true events? You have asked me for it and I provided what I found in english wikipedia, which is allways less favorable to PL, than Polish version. You are free to display a different version if there is one. The idea of superiority-inferiority in case of D-PL, where there are no racial differences, in my perception is just a mental disease, I am afraid you may not be free of that. Poles never planned to kill any nation, neither to deport anybody.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 terminate the existance of poles, he saw the germans as better than the rest of the persons and thats why he tried to expand germany, and as he saw the poles as inferior, he tried to take them out and put the "superior" germans on their place.
If you think about it, that would be exactly what you arrogant slavs would have done if you could take over germany... but you cant.
1111hola 3 months ago
@wladys678 Virtually all the Polish officers who were captured by the Germans in 1939 survived the war. Virtually none of the Polish officers who were captured by the Soviets in 1939 did.
brodl1 2 months ago
@brodl1 I agree with your statement, this regards to German aggression against Poland in Sept.1939. It is also true, at the same time Luftwaffe followed orders to attack unarmed civilians on roads, did level from air border city of Wielun with no military installation, executed dozens of Polish workers who defended central post office Gdansk, killed 200 thousand of mostly civilian non-combatants in Warsaw 1944, incl.throwing 3 year old children from multi story bldgs ,gang-raping women+killing.
wladys678 2 months ago
@wladys678 I refuse to believe the lies that are constantly being churned out about supposed German attrocities during the war. The people who win the wars write the history, and never has this been more true than about the period between 1933-1945. Poland was used as a puppet by the Soviets, British and Americans to get the war going. When it was over both Poland and Germany were destroyed and the jews ruled the world. Rape by German soldiers was virtually unknown during the war.Communist lies.
brodl1 2 months ago
@brodl1 I expected someone is going to protest, perhaps in good will, yet it is true. It is not communist or any other propaganda. Actually media totaly silece all Polish-Christian victims. Stanislaw Kicman, still living eyewitness, in 8/1944 7-10 y.o.child w mother, reports in 2009 YT hour-long interview. He was a resident of Warsaw-Wola, when Aug.2-5 Germans butchered 50,000 inhabitants from infants to elderly. All following Hitler-Himmler order to kill all Warsawians- historically documented
wladys678 2 months ago
@wladys678 As I stated, I refuse to believe the lies any more. I used to believe all the lies we have been told all of our lives about the war, Hitler, the holocaust and so on. Then I took the trouble to investigate it and discovered that it was all lies. Now, when I hear the nonsense that you claim I know that it is a lie. The holocaust is a disgusting lie. It never happened. Yet, there are thousands of jew 'survivors' who claim to have seen gas chambers and German atrocities but who are lying.
brodl1 2 months ago
@brodl1 H-H order to kill everyone was changed after a week, at request of Von dem Bach, to limit butcher to men and boys 14 & older. People were odered out of residential bldgs, he saw a German throwing 3 yo boy from window o 4th floor, while father was shot dead. Residents were amassed at St.Wojciech church a few days, Germans were desecrating church by sitting on altar, drinking holy wine, eating, few times they ordered girls out the church, gang-raped at gun point and shot dead.
wladys678 2 months ago
@wladys678 No evidence for such an order exists. Just as no evidence whatsoever exists, or has ever existed, for gas chambers to kill people. It's all lies and I am tired of it. You Poles played a shameful part in this genocidal war. Because of your stubborn pride and unwillingness to deal with the Germans in a reasonable way you ensured the destruction of our continent and its control by the Soviet Communist jews and the American Capitalist jews.Your treatment of German civilians was a disgrace
brodl1 2 months ago
@brodl1 I am sorry for you in America, as your minds are so roasted by liberal media that you turn your hopes into nazism unaware these are feces, other side of same forged and false coin.
Wola massacre has nothing to do with holocaust and knowledge of it is being suppressed by liberal media.
Wola was a working class borough inhabited by christians, these atrocities perpetrated by German 3rd Reich have nothing to do with liquidation of Ghetto which took place 16 months prior.
wladys678 2 months ago
@wladys678 Just to clear up a point. I am not an American and would not even visit that jewish gangster state. It's really pointless you and I arguing about this any further. As far as I am concerned, we live under a mountain of lies regarding what Germany did during the war. Germany is a still a militarily occupied country 66 years after its defeat. It is illegal for a German to question any aspect of the war no matter how wild and exagerated the accusation. Anyone can spit on Germany.
brodl1 2 months ago
@brodl1 Ist".Polish" government got to power in 1926 i a bloody coup sponsored jointly by UK and Germany, it was never elected since until WW2. This is why I don't consider it Polish. In Jan,1939 it switched close allegiance from Germany to UK. I am not supporting either side, I think it should have allied with CS, France, Yougoslavia instead. But this is a different theme and it was not easy either.
This is not good, when people are restrained as in Germany but nazi was not alternative.
wladys678 2 months ago
@brodl1 You taking nonsense sir. But you are cut off of any reliable information so it is impossible to find understanding.
What I said, are documented facts.
"Poles played shameful part in genocidal war" by not letting being murdered competely...
Should I remind you, my mother's family was deported from central Poland along with 1.5 million Poles, Germans stealing all their property, my grandfather, a pharmacist, arrested on execution list.
Don't try to balance it with baloney...
wladys678 2 months ago
@brodl1 Wola massacre was perpetrated by 36th SS Sonderbatallion led by dr Oskar Dirlewanger. It caused death of 65 thousand civilians withinone month but 50 within the first week of August44.
Dirlewanger himself was senteced by German court for aggravated rape of a 13 y.o. in 30's for "long" jail term of 2 years, but his sentence commuted. His battalion consisted of German criminals.
Stanislaw Kicman, born 1937, a quiet, balanced family man, Warsawian, find him by Google, YT.
wladys678 2 months ago
@brodl1 Kicman's testimony, placed on YT Apr9,2010 in numerous film clips is backed by several other eyewitness, some testifying in 2009, 2010 and some filmed in prior decades. You are not going to be able to find them in american media.
St.Wojciech, a large red brick church luckily survived German destruction and is still standing in Wola, you can see it on YT, as well as other churches where residents were placed and locked.
Kicman was sent to Bergen Belsen concentration camp, but survived.
wladys678 2 months ago
@brodl1 It seems like, you are trying to make me believe Hitler was planning to liberate Russia from communism and wanted Poland cooperation.
No sir, if he did there was nothing easier do do so, since Russians by millions surrendered, refusing to fight for hated regime. Hitler wanted Russia as lebensraum and Russians as white slaves, Poles as cannon meat.
This is why he lost.
I do not support pre war Poland's policy, but this is a separate theme.
wladys678 2 months ago
@wladys678 I am not trying to make you believe anything. No one can make a person believe something. A person can only convince himself. Believe what you wish. All I know is that since the 'great victory' of 1945, of which Poland was supposedly a part, our civilisation has gone straight to hell and our race is dying. Thanks to Polish help to the Allies our continent is flooded with Muslims and niggers and wogs and ruled by jews. Well done! I hope you enjoy your victory.
brodl1 2 months ago
@1111hola 973 battle of Cedynia bank of Odra river, invading forces of Murgrave Hodo and count Siegfried of Walbeck /father of chronicler Thietmar/ vs Polish Duke Mieszko of Poznan&Gniezno. Decisive Polish victory, almost all invading forces killed or sank in the marches. Abt 4000 troops on each side.
wladys678 3 months ago
@1111hola Growth of Britain does resemble somewhat the German conquest of Prussia, also such Slavic lands as Polabia,Milsko/now Saxony?,Pomerania in 17thc, Silesia 1743, gradual paralising Poland from within by usurped Saxon dynasty 1698-1764 and the enactment of antipolish conspiracy in 3 stages 1772-95. But in 18c Polish nation was already formed for centuries, that's the difference. Now, in briish case this is why that country is also being called the United Kingdom of Enslaved Nations.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 if the germans were growing like cancer and the way you say they would have been destroyed alredy. its the primitive logic of attacking all the one who grows too much. remember napoleon, rome, and all great empires.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola What you are trying to say is conquest is the only way to build nations. This is not true. In British case it resulted in denying Irish and all other Celtic majority their languages, atrocities of 17c, killing of 1/2 of Irish and impoverish of the rest, mass murder of Irish by way of famine in 19c, delayead by a thousand ys independence of Ireland. To this day many inhabtants of UK consider themselves part of different nations, although deprived their native languages.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 Poland did not grow,are you joking?The LARGEST, most populous country in Europe for over 4 centuries 1387-1795. This was Poland which grew from 2 small provinces around Poznan and Krakow. Over a million Sq.km. Most importantly it grew by the will of people.
wladys678 3 months ago
@wladys678 ok. the holy roman empire was mainly german. during the middle ages everything could grow too big provided the kings are good. look at normandy, burgundy, and whatsoever. And it didnt grow by the will mof people. It grew through marriages and whatever. rember it was the middle ages, nothing grew by peoples will.
1111hola 3 months ago
@1111hola
And you destroy all those cities...WE, Poles, Poles, rebuild it. Anyway. Gdańsk was always Polish... you heard about "Spichlerz Europy" ? God...you germans always steal our lands... LOL
Berlin is built by Poles
1000razyja 3 months ago
@1000razyja no its not. berlin is not made of wood and grass. just because a city had a remote polish origin it doesnt mean that it is polish. berlin was began as a tiny pole settlement, but what it is now, is not thanks to poles, just and danzig, settin, konigsberg and memel. The only thing you did was to have them under your command, as the growing machine had alredy been started by germany.
1111hola 3 months ago
ITS KONIGSBERG AND NOT KALININGRAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(and im not even german and i still know that)
EpicRandomDude 9 months ago
Red artillery works just perfectly!
ShitFromTransASS 9 months ago
Some politicians have to be treated like raw eggs. And how to treat raw eggs? It just blows into the pan. -Didi Hallervorden-
gehtnichtgehtnicht 9 months ago
@gehtnichtgehtnicht. Stay in touch, mine OstPreussen Freund. I know that you mean well. That's why I am talking with you. I was attacked by lesser folks who don't understand that I mean well. I am just conversing about tough problems that we as Europeans have the job to fix. Your grandpa was a decent man...a farmer who cared for land without predijuce. More power to him. We are one in the eyes of God no matter how much some people want to make us different. Tschuess!!!
rechelieu 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gehtnichtgehtnicht. Erica Steinbach needs better PR. German nation deserves the memorial. However, you can't go about it by white washing history and assaulting other nationalities. Jews also withdrew from this project because she only shows German halocaust. OK, but it should be shown but in a bigger context of the entire halocaust in Europe. Steinback wants to make Germany as the biggest victim of this war. That's a borderline insanity. I enjoy talking to you!!!
rechelieu 9 months ago
Comment removed
rechelieu 9 months ago
@rechelieu nobody (may be some idiots) want something wash white .But the things which happened before the shit began should also not be forgotten. Ask a Pole for Bereza Kartuska,Jedwabne,Kielce or Brest orTost ...nobody want to know about ...also the 3 tries to make a pact with France to attack Germany in 1933 on 2 fronts,or the "visits" from German farmers by Polish miliz on German terretory day and night. Do you think USA did nothing when f.ex. Mexicanians tortured and killed Ame. farmers ?
gehtnichtgehtnicht 9 months ago
@gehtnichtgehtnicht yes, you are right. However, nobody wants to hear about it because no matter how much Germany suffered (horrendous losses I admit), the rest of Europe suffered more. This exact scenario happens in U.S - it is called drug cartel, killing American citizens. Yet, U.S. uses diplomacy with Mexico to solve this bloodshed. Mexico hastes gringos and yet American soldiers did not enter Mexico as far I can tell...:-) German response to these intrusions was over the top, do you agree?
rechelieu 9 months ago
@gehnichtgehnicht. By the way, don't think I am anti German. I have German roots. My grandpa was from Rhineland, Bochum. But I also have Polish roots so my loyalties in this matter are really divided. On one hand, I admire Germany's success, on the other hand, it upsets me that people like Erica Steinback want to white wash the history and state that the Germans are the only and ultimate victims of this whole fiasco called WW2. Gruesse aus America, Freund!!!
rechelieu 9 months ago
@rechelieu Ah Steinbach...I understand... do you think 1The descendants from 5-17 millions people have right to build a memorial (which was already planed in the 70 th (I think) years by social democtatic politicans ? I think they have. Many hundred thousand civilians were killed when they had to fleet and millions lost their homes. That should be also not forgotten.Every nation think or claims this right for itsself. Poland mean Germany has no right ! This is not correct ...or ?
gehtnichtgehtnicht 9 months ago
@rechelieu google Polish immperalism, Pilsudski ,Miedzymorze ,Polish Westmarkenverein,-Fakten, Zitate, Dokumente -
Auszug aus der VGG-Verfassungsbeschwerde vom 10.12.1992...Kriegsschuldfrage , int.League of nations and Germanys never worked on complaints (nearly 15000 !)...etc...etc.... I don`t know what is censured in the Staates.History is not so easy...as it looks...Gute Nacht ...nice evening...Glück auf !
gehtnichtgehtnicht 9 months ago
@gehtnichtgehtnicht Gute Nacht!!! Maybe it is good we talk about stuff like this. Misunderstandings bring wars. Now we open our vaults of pain. You are right, history is not easy. I hope that this WW2 topic will eventually be just a topic for historians, not entire nations still angry about wrongs done to them one way or another. Talking is good, talking is progress so maybe after 1000 years Poland and Germany can finally look at each other as partners not eternal enemies.
rechelieu 9 months ago
@rechelieu I have no problems with Poles only with people which denies anything.I know they had it not easy in their history ( 3 partitions...etc.). In Ostpreussen my grandpa worked together with Poles,Russians,Lithuanians (granny was Lit) ,Belarussian s and so on.... it never interested a farmer from which country another people came ...the work must be done...
gehtnichtgehtnicht 9 months ago
@rechelieu LG and have a good night.
gehtnichtgehtnicht 9 months ago
@gehtnichtgehtnicht I will try to find this. Thanks for the tip. I know that Pitsudski was a dictator the same Hitler was. That's why we should love living in democracies. I love it!!!
rechelieu 9 months ago
@gehnichtgehnicht. OK, sorry my friend. I really did not know that Russia offered OstPreussen twice to Germany. Than, I don't understand what people like Erica Steinbach want then. Can you explain to me? I understand the sadness of losing your homeland. That's heart breaking. I had to leave Poland due to communists. I still miss it. I am sure my old German neighbor misses it. It is only human. I am for United Europe, yet people like Steinbach open old wounds!!! Warum? Ich verstehe gar nichts.
rechelieu 9 months ago
@gehnichtgehnicht...I live in the States. I have a old neighbor who is German, specifically Ost Preussen German. He is 93 so he remembers that land of milk and honey. He and his wife left Deutschland in 1955 because they were tired of the same old stuff. When I asked him about Ost Preussen, he said it is history not worth discussing a