You all don't understand that most multi platform games suck graphically on the ps3 cause the developers do not have the patience to develop it specifically for the ps3's very very powerful processor. Instead they put the load mostly on the gpu, which can handle not much, by today's standards. Try putting separating and evening out the load and harnessing the full potential of both gpu and cpu's of the ps3, and you'll get uncharted 3 and Killzone 3. The developers havent even reached the full p
Battlefield 3 will show the max potential of the PS3 and Xbox 360, they're not trying to make it suck more than PC, it's just the fact they've reached the limit of the hardware that a console today can output. PS3 is the lead console for BF3, because of the cell processors ultimate power :)
@xboxlover749 lol no, alienware is expensive, yes but who buy alienware? o.O and i use the "expensive" PC for Chat, surfing, working, gaming and such too! ;-) so i buy !!!1!!! PC and i can do everything with this ONE console. so i dont buy 2 things... its simple :D
@xboxlover749 dude i have a pc from 2003 that can put out better graphics than a ps3. the ps3 cant even display at 1080p in 90% of its games and even uncharted2 is in 720p, the ps3 sucks. alienware is just a normal pc with no special parts but only has all its hardware overclocked (which voids the warranty and shortens the life of the parts), then they sell you their own warranty, alienware is very over rated and you can build a better pc with only a fraction of the money spent on a alienware.
@BarbCat08 Lol, no. The Wii is has 2X the power of the GameCube, and the GameCube was confirmed significantly more powerful than the PS2... So it's a lot more powerful :P It's a shame how ugly developers make Wii games look -.-
@maniax786 Wrong. Crytek had refused to create a Crysis title on the PlayStation platform, as their entire development team has an extensive knowledge of the PC (Computer). It will take them a very long time to figure out the new technology in the PlayStation 3. Many video gaming developers had refused to make a PlayStation 3 title as they are not smart enough to go on with it. One company is Valve. They hate the PlayStation 3 because they are not smart enough to learn how it works.
@PhoeniX999R it is the ps3's fault not the developers because it has an extremely powerful cpu(not very important in games) yet the gpu is actually weaker than the xbox360's. so what the ps3 does is it puts the gpu load on the cpu
@maniax786 Although the NVidia RSX (The PlayStation 3 GPU) with the help of the 8 processors, can and will be able to handle such a game, just like many other games, such as Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, and Metal Gear Solid 4. I agree with what you said, the GPU is weaker than the XBOX 360's, but the system can still create more graphical content using:
- 50 GB Blu-Ray Disks for a large amount of image space.
@PhoeniX999R eventhough the ps3 is better than the 360, ps3 has some impressive features like the ones uve mentioned, sony should have put their money on more powerful gpu istead of such a powerful cpu, and yeah that cpu is a monster i must say but unfortunatley it is not designed for processing complicated graphics, the gpu is what is designed for that. anyway who cares? ps3 is still better LOL
@PhoeniX999R I read your comment and just thought it was funny how 5 months later, and Crysis 2 is going to be on PS3 along with Portal 2 :) but you probably know that now don't you....
My custom PC totaled up to $600, with a $90 ATI graphics card, a $80 AMD Athlon X2, a good ASUS motherboard that was above $150, 4 gigs of RAM from G-Skill, an average DVD burner, a 250 GB hard drive from Seagate, and other things.
The PS3 back in it's days cost up to $600 for the higher-end model.
I said the PS3 is better than my PC, but Sony made the development tools hard to use. If GTA4 were better developed for the PS3's architecture, it would run at 60 FPS and without crashes.
@psphacker8 , jajaaj you don't know anything. A medium PC video card has 1TFlop of computing power while the cell can barely deliver 260GFLops. Not talking about the outdated RSX GPU which is only a reduced Geforce 7800GTX. So a Medium Graphics card has 4 times the computing power of the cell.
Your comment is no sense. You're talking about a CPU and then compare it to Graphic cards. That's enough for me to understand you know nothing about hardware. So please, next time learn something about what you're talking about and then speak.
@cpsuperbrain , ??? the cell can process 260Gflops, while a medion Graphics card cna process more than 1Tflop. An actual low end card actually has a lot more computing power than the cell.
Funny That, PC Looks identical to Xbox 360 Graphics, stop Bullshiting people with your Nerd Talk, No One Cares, PC is Shit For Gaming, Most People have Games Consoles!
It will be a while yet before programmers be able to program the cell to its full potential. The EE on the ps2 hasn't been programmed to its fullest yet and that came out in 1998.
can we stop arguing over which is better ps3 or 360 who cares if you think ps3 or 360 is better we will still be playing what we have anyway it doesn't matter which one is better, both are good and thats what matters
PS3 hardly has ANY bottlenecks, its X360 that has them.
Because MS decided to use shared RAM instead of Dedicated RAM they cut the bandwidth in half. Xenon has 2 HUGE flaws in it, having slow cache in each core and having shared cache between the 3 cores.Without the eDRAM pixel processor doing 4xMSAA, the fillrate of the GPU core itself is 4 billion texel/sec and almost equal to GeForce 7600 GT.
i had a 360 played it alot, but unless u own a ps3 and witnessed its power, u'll never know/understand how good ps3 is. Its a secret, sony knows it, they not worried bout microsoft, lol, ps3 as a whole entertainment package is a different realm, and frankly...when i try to play xbox, i can't, its utterly boring compared to what ps3's unparalled power and experienced...so please stop talking crap, PS3 is truely the best console....and thats the truth, so stop talking like u knw wut ur saying
I have a PlayStation 3 and there is no magic or "fanboyism" in the fact that Xbox Live is simply alot better service than PlayStation Network, Xbox 360 upscales to 1080p better overall, Virtually all multi-system games look- and performs better on Xbox 360. Try doing this sort of comparison yourself and you'll take back your ridicilous claim.
Sony is amazingly bad at software. But still delivers an overall multimedia-oritented machine with game-capabilities.
Xbox 360 is capable of delivering a native 1920*1080p image. But this generation of console hardware lacks the texture bandwith to properly do 1920*1080 in the first place as the higher resolution means trading in most of the important shader technologies, like self-shading and proper environmental shading techniques and trade in alot of performance.
If Multiplatforms would look and perform better on Xbox 360 for any reason it still gives Xbox 360 a significant upper hand.
Not many games on the PlayStation 3 is "true" 1080p either. Gran Turismo Prolougue for example is 1280*1080.
And virtually all games on the market is rendered in 720p. And it is documentet the scaler on the PlayStation 3 at times does a terrible job upscaling 720p to 1080p, look at Ratchet and Clank, it looks completely rubbish on a 1080p monitor.
Many games on the PS3, just as the X360, doesnt even run 720p. MGS4 runs at 1024x768, which isn't even widescreen but 4:3.
Wtf? You missed my whole point. My point was the 360 CANT run true 1080p AT ALL. Ps3 can. I never said ALL GAMES ON PS3 RUN 1080p!!! Are the devs doing all they can...no. As for 360 getting a significant upper due to dev laziness and/or incompetence. That only goes for games that are out right now. I never said or even implied 360 didnt have any advantages.
And it's VERY inaccurate to say "SONY is bad at software" they don't make games.
Sony makes the development kits, they maintain PSN services, they maintain the PlayStation 3 Operating System and its features. But yeah, that's not software, I guess it's magic.
Xbox 360 can do 1920*1080 resolution which history has proven and will become more utilized with ZuneHD. It's not too used in games as it's either running 720p with flawless technologies, or run twice as many pixels with completely castrated visuals, on PS3 or Xbox 360.
If only the devs developed every game (even muliplats) like they were exclusives for each system. I know its more work...But its obviously gonna be harder to "port" a game designed for 3 cpus to a 7 cpu system. It would make more sense to do the reverse (ala FF13). But yea...i guess the game industry doesnt work that way..they go where the money is and not the most capable (ala ps2). That being said the 360 has nearly capped its potential lol. We will see ALOT more great things on ps3.
According to who? The weakness with the PlayStation 3 is Sonys unfocused development tools and small(er) marketshare combined with a small gaming audience.
There's not alot more stuff to do on the PlayStation 3 that wouldn't be well possible on the Xbox 360. Both consoles are close enough to retirement and the PlayStation 3 hardware capabilities isn't about magic - it lacks the investors and lacks the GPU muscles to have an more futureproof future than the Xbox 360.
Just b/c ps3's gaming audience MAY be smaller than 360's...doesnt make it small. And show me a game that has topped Gears2 in graphics combined with high activity environments. Ps3 keeps topping itself. Uncharted 2 now has more environments and a smooth running multiplayer.
And KZ2 only uses 4.5 of the ps3's 7 cores. Not to mention the fact the Cell itself can produce graphics on top of the fact that the ps3 has a GPU...devs just need to tap into it.
It's smaller. Pushing less game sales, less online purchases, etc. Both in general and in ratio of sold systems.
There still is no magic. And how can a software use "four and a half" 'core'? And even if it did use 7 cores it wouldn't help too much as the GPU muscles are limited, and so is the RAM. You have to work around physical bottlenecks to gain the theoretical performance boosts.
And you dont literally use "half" of a core. If a core is 1.2 ghz and the sofware only needs 5600mhz. Then you're not using all of the cores power. And you don't necessarily need more "physical" hardware to improve performance lol. If that was the case then why does Uncharted 2 look better than the first. Gears 2 better than Gears 1. You just need to utilize the memory more efficiently. Not sayin its easy. But not impossible.
But these core are undependent of each other. Even if we talk 3 cores at 3ghz each, it's still three cores at 3ghz, not 9ghz.
You talk about physical hardware. Utilizing more physical cores on the Cell processor is just that. What we see with Uncharted 2 and Gears of War 2 is merely software-based and we're talking optimization, altering texture technologies, caching, stuff like that - not utilizing different parts of the hardware differently from the original game(s).
Yes..its 3 cores at 3 ghz..but dude if the game only demands the 1st core at 3ghz and doesnt use any other one. Then their is potentially more room to do more things.
And the second half of your comment is pretty much EXACTLY what i'm saying. Software = code. More optimized (better) code/software = less strain on cpu(s), more efficient use of RAM, cache etc...and this in turn allows EVEN MORE software to be run than before. Which potentially = BETTER GAMES (in a sense). It seems u knew tht tho.
You're not making any sense here. Even a poorly written code can use 100% of the hardware given. And if the application just needs one core, then it serves no purpose even utilizing the rest.
This development is natural and is happening all the time. But the way you formulated the impact simply looks wierd as it's not about making the hardware peak their limits, since even a poor code could do that, but simply making an application after the hardware given.
Yes..it serves no purpose in utilizing the rest..for THAT application. But say you make a sequel or even a whole new title using the same engine. You WILL know more about what you're doing and be able to spit more out faster. That COLD be said about the 360. But as you said before. 360 is familiar ground very similar to PC. Not too much to be learned here. They may be able to optimize a tad more yea. But they pretty much know what theyre doin already.
This to prove the simple point Xbox 360 can deliver a native 1080p image, and is doing so. BUT , as always, 720p is always prefered over 1080p as current generation of consoles is simply lacking the texture bandwith and overall muscles to produce a 1920x1080 image while maintaining any accepable visuals.
As for you software bit...you say they are bad at making software..i said they dont make GAMES. Cmon now..they don't. Then you go to list things that HAVE made..are any of those things..."bad"? You've already seen the work on their exclusives (dev kits).
And dude..don't you find it weird that the 360 cant display a TRUE 1080p IMAGE...but then you see these claims about "VT3 IS NATIVE 1080P!!!" NOT AN IMAGE BUT A VIDEO GAME!?!!?
Sure, developers can make things out of the Sony development kits. But looking at Killzone 2 it took them almost five years in development. During that time Epic had plenty time to release two installations in the Gears of War franschise, which all had more of an impact on the market and pushing this generation visuals than Killzone 2 did - it was simply too late.
3D Graphics rendered over an 1920*1080 is an 1080p image. Everything you see from your monitor is a series of images.
Yes KZ2 took "4+ years" to develop. It was actually supposed to be a launch game. So that means it was be made when the ps3 was still new. But wait...wasn't that when the devs new next to nothing about to ps3 architecture? Hm..no wonder it took so long. I doubt any typical game will ever take that long to develop on the ps3 anymore.
Guerilla developed their own engine. That alone takes alot of time. On top of that they did it exclusively for specific platform. And they had to deliver a game on top of that too. It takes time - time they have been giving and budgets Sony thought justified. But that doesn't mean any developer can magically utilize that knowledge.
And no 'typical' game has the budget to drag out development for so long. Guerilla had all their expenses covered and giving perhaps too much time to work with.
Yes..they made their own engine. Most of what you are saying here is what i was saying. But if theyre anything like Zipper (for the most part probably not)...Zipper is giving out their "secrets" for free to other developers. Not sure of how many will follow suit. But more knowledge definitely = less time. My whole point is development gets "easier" with time.
The whole "easier to develop with time" thing only spans actual Experience and improved development kits. Which is why the Xbox 360 development is so relatively fail-safe as any experienced PC developer (such as Epic) could get into it without having to re-learn for the sake of developing exclusively for a system using a random mix of hardware that will never be seen again on any other platform.
That is true. That's one of the advantages 360 has over ps3. But again its a double edged sword. While it is "fail-safe" your comment about needing new hardware for performance boost is true more so on the 360 than ps3. BECAUSE they are familiar with the 360 architecture it becomes easier to "max out" than the ps3. We've already seen things that cant be done on 360. And there's nowhere to go but up. It's all about what we see from the devs. If they wana do greater things or not.
You're looking at it in a little wierd way. It's first NOW the PlayStation 3 has proven itself, at all. And this whole thing with "maxing out" the hardware is simply not going to happen anytime soon as we saw a huge leap with Gears of War one over to Gears of War 2 - something few thought could be done properly, this while also Improving performance.
There's not going to happen any magic this many years into this generation. Current generation is soon enough hitting retirement either way.
From what you just said. You just said ps3 has a lot more room and can do more things software wise. No "maxing out" isnt the most important thing. Im sure later down the line Guerrilla will be able to pull off what KZ2 can do now (60%) and be able to do it using only 40 or 30%. That gives them MORE room to do MORE things after theyve had experience. The fact that 360 IS like PC architecture means MS WILL need new hardware alot sooner than ps3. Just like when you update your grfx card or w/e.
In 2005 at E3, GG showed a pre-rendered trailer of Killzone 2. They had NOT started devloping yet. Anyway, it took them 18 months to devlop. They said it themselves, just look it up.
The Cell + RSX makes PS3 like a GPGPU system, Mike Action from Insomniac said that. BTW, together, they outperform Xenos by at least 2x.
Just for thought..In Killzone 2 the RSX was maxed out, yet the SPUs helped RSX go BEYOND its max by 40-50%..That could be beyond Xenos max by 20-30%.
An 1080p jpeg image in an 720p dashboard environment. The Xbox 360 has proven itself capable of delivering a 1920*1080 image, a' la (certain) games, so why do you even bother? Reality has proven you wrong.
If you want to produce an native 1080p image in the Dashboards 720p environment you'll have to trigger the application to display an native 1080p image. Which is not done as there's no real demand on Microsoft to do that - maybe things will change with ZuneHD, talking jpeg-playback.
So you're saying microsoft allows 1080p games but not pictures being viewed through the dashboard. I well aware of what ppl "claim" about their games.
Alot of devs say "the ps3 is soooo hard to program for" as an excuse to justify their poor multiplats. But you see plenty multiplats that look just fine on both systems.
Microsoft doesn't need to deliver a multimedia platform at this time. Their targeted consumer is not an multimedia enthusiast. Keeping 720p dashboards makes sense. 1080p is rarely used in 3D environments due to hardware restraints in this generation of consoles.
Many Multiplays looks fine on both systems, but comparing them yourself you notice the Xbox 360 almost always runs better shaders and better texture filters. It's all about knowing what to look for.
Isn't it also funny Sony allow their users to play their own music in games - only restriction the game cannot have any musical parts at all on its own, or the user's music won't play?
No. It's alot easier than that. It's not about Microsoft giving developers a clear word saying; allow costum music. The development tools is done in a way that makes it that way - the music in a game is simply a layer of audio, an layer you can over-ride with your own music thereof muting the game's layer of music.
It's not harder than that. yet Sony seems incapable of doing this tiny thing so many fans has been asking for ever since release, which Sony has promised again and again.
To make a 360 game they are REQUIRED to allow custom sound tracks. Sony just doesnt require it. Not yet anyway. So most devs havent done it. Although some have.
PS3's scaler is a weird one, it only upscales horizontal lines. Probably 90% or so of console games are native 1280x720. You forgot about NBA 07 and NBA 08 which also native 1920x1080 on X360.
In the future, with advancements in procedural textures and procedural geometry, the PS3 could probably pull of FULL 1080p with the quality of Resistance 2...X360..Not so much.
@TheRareone777 See. the funny thing is? Xbox is the most popular console? With the most exclusives? With the highest rating? Yet the graphics are the exact same in all top released games for both consoles? Cause they are capped for consoles? They both run the same DX engine? And PC Runs DX11 ? With i7 Processors and unlimited graphics power and higher quality than 1080p? Yes, i think PC wins? Also Xbox wins after that? Cause PS3 hasnt shown this "POWER" Yet in any really amazing way tbh.
I'm not being a fan boy or anything I own a PS3 and Xbox 360 and I have a gaming rig. But for me PC gaming is only being kept alive by the sales of the PS3 and Xbox and there multiplatform titles that are on the PC. There's been no successful PC exclusive since the days of Deus EX, in terms of story, graphics, game play that is a AAA game and exclusive, it loses out to DLC a lot as well... I just hope theirs gonna be a killer app soon. =(
Why does people have to be "jealous" over the video? Most of the titles presented is in fact multi-system and one is complete crap (Haze). The only other games I noticed is Killzone 2 and Metal Gear Solid 4 as far as exclusives to. And I saw some other game looking like "The Club" too.
I got myself a PlayStation 3 Slim and Killzone 2 last week, and until they add trophies to Metal Gear Solid 4 I feel there's no other game on PlayStation 3 today I couldn't have on the Xbox 360.
EEEEEEPPPPPIIIIIIICCCCCCC
sexyvampire44 1 week ago
this video... has the best games ever and to below
just dislike it then, don't give ur opinion and its hard to aim on pc
cloneadventurer 2 weeks ago
pc is better _|_
creminal23 2 weeks ago
Power of the PS3 huh...well guess I'll go play Crysis on my PC then.
mrcow94 3 weeks ago 4
@mrcow94 im a neweb i thought the video needed to be o 720p as well.
i apologize for my ignorance
Shiningforceking 2 weeks ago
360P? cmon man where's HD?
Shiningforceking 1 month ago
@Shiningforceking ps3 doesnt has more than 720p :D
MrAndre1323 3 weeks ago
por que muestran video de metal gear solid 4 en blanco y negro????????
fEr1324EVER 1 month ago
which is the game shown at he end?
manugokufan 1 month ago
@manugokufan Haze i beleive
Shiningforceking 1 month ago
@Shiningforceking thanks!
manugokufan 1 month ago
Too bad, not every game developer puts time into their games. I know that the PS3 is extremely powerful, but all that power has to be used.
MindOfCreativity 2 months ago
*potential
CivilisedHumanity 2 months ago
You all don't understand that most multi platform games suck graphically on the ps3 cause the developers do not have the patience to develop it specifically for the ps3's very very powerful processor. Instead they put the load mostly on the gpu, which can handle not much, by today's standards. Try putting separating and evening out the load and harnessing the full potential of both gpu and cpu's of the ps3, and you'll get uncharted 3 and Killzone 3. The developers havent even reached the full p
CivilisedHumanity 2 months ago
Huh its lagging in gta iv
gh3860 2 months ago
2008 xDDDDDD
wer are in 2011 now , i would fuck myself for a ps3 in 2008, now
i want to fuck the ps3 itself
jojosharukhishier 4 months ago
Ps3 and Xbox Have the Best Performance BUT!!! They Havnt The Best Graphic!
PC Have The Best Graphic and sometimes the Best Performance!
xXl3lackyXx 5 months ago
what game was shown at :56, the shatter was amazing.
RiotFalls 5 months ago
at least it's not taht 009 system song
billdsafdsad 6 months ago
this song is epic
dislike?
bahh
TheFred128 6 months ago 2
Battlefield 3 will show the max potential of the PS3 and Xbox 360, they're not trying to make it suck more than PC, it's just the fact they've reached the limit of the hardware that a console today can output. PS3 is the lead console for BF3, because of the cell processors ultimate power :)
coolcar100 6 months ago
@coolcar100 reached the limit lol i guess you havent seen forza4 then.
andrewjones1977 6 months ago
i dont get it. why people just cant find new music but using music from requiem?
dammit.
bartekordek 6 months ago
Pre-rendered cut scenes.
In other terms....Movies...
Any console could play movies....PS2...Xbox...Gamecube...Any computer from 1997..
EliteMon1995 8 months ago
@EliteMon1995 Actually almost all of the footage was playing in real-time.
ldjx1000 8 months ago
a bunch of pre-rendered cs
m200mw 8 months ago
this song is kind of gay
freegamers69 9 months ago
Everyone uses this song because of the fact that it is epic.
GameReviews267 10 months ago
Comment removed
metabog 11 months ago
Comment removed
DjCorbProductions 1 year ago
@DjCorbProductions the clips were amazing you terd burgler
xboxlover749 11 months ago
what is the game at 3:03
alexguerreiro15 1 year ago
@alexguerreiro15 the game name is haze
wissimm 11 months ago
@alexguerreiro15 looks kinda like Haze
ahriik 11 months ago
funny thing is, ALL those games would or do look WAY better on PC.
gnuojoung 1 year ago
ps3? pc is better ;)
Wrutschgeluck 1 year ago
@Wrutschgeluck only if your a rich asshole, cuase buying a pc with better graphics than the ps3 is like alienware man, and this is EXPENSIVE.
xboxlover749 11 months ago
@xboxlover749 lol no, alienware is expensive, yes but who buy alienware? o.O and i use the "expensive" PC for Chat, surfing, working, gaming and such too! ;-) so i buy !!!1!!! PC and i can do everything with this ONE console. so i dont buy 2 things... its simple :D
Wrutschgeluck 11 months ago
@xboxlover749 dude i have a pc from 2003 that can put out better graphics than a ps3. the ps3 cant even display at 1080p in 90% of its games and even uncharted2 is in 720p, the ps3 sucks. alienware is just a normal pc with no special parts but only has all its hardware overclocked (which voids the warranty and shortens the life of the parts), then they sell you their own warranty, alienware is very over rated and you can build a better pc with only a fraction of the money spent on a alienware.
xCodeFishx 9 months ago
@mushoraus it's a good song,why not?
staticrubber 1 year ago
MGS4 is the best game ever!!
cenasux115 1 year ago
DO NOT USE THIS SONG
cassand14 1 year ago
This was pretty good. First vid I see in a long time to actually look good with this song.
danielodors 1 year ago
Very nice.
PepsiSpriteLight 1 year ago
reqiuem for dream-themesong.
citywill2 1 year ago
nitendo wii lost to ps2
BarbCat08 1 year ago 14
@BarbCat08 ps3 lost to wii how disappointing
MrSmokinhotdude 2 months ago
Comment removed
BarbCat08 2 months ago
@BarbCat08 Lol, no. The Wii is has 2X the power of the GameCube, and the GameCube was confirmed significantly more powerful than the PS2... So it's a lot more powerful :P It's a shame how ugly developers make Wii games look -.-
SSBMsounds 3 weeks ago
whats the song name?
rangepure06 1 year ago
umm song don't work with video but ike it...
geeo98666 1 year ago
i can't wait until gran turismo 5 releases... supposed to push the ps3 to its maximum limits!!!!
ismellbacon911 1 year ago
lol at the music. sounds epic but how epic is it really.
Gordingracht 1 year ago
Why does every nub use this song, its basically brands you as a tard.
Rjackman84 1 year ago 44
@Rjackman84 hahahahahah tard i don't know why that was funny but lmfao!!!
TheInfiniteNexus 1 year ago
@Rjackman84 whats wrong with this song because unless u look at noobie vids all day u dont hear it that much XD
DarkooVideosandmusic 1 year ago
@Rjackman84 your comment brands you as a guy who dosent have a taste for real music.
xboxlover749 11 months ago
s-ooock°°°!!!
DOYULIONEG 2 years ago
Great Job on the video man...
Doggyps3 2 years ago
plz can some one tell me the name of the music or the song plz plz plz
whitefaithmalik 2 years ago
the name of the song is ((requiem for a dream))
:)
defectev 2 years ago
fuck off by chiranchula
L2NProductions 2 years ago
Requiem for a Dream Soundtrack - Theme Song
nice movie as well :)
crzy402 2 years ago
w8 till crysis2 comes out on ps3 it will be awsome, but the pc version will still look better
maniax786 2 years ago
@maniax786 Wrong. Crytek had refused to create a Crysis title on the PlayStation platform, as their entire development team has an extensive knowledge of the PC (Computer). It will take them a very long time to figure out the new technology in the PlayStation 3. Many video gaming developers had refused to make a PlayStation 3 title as they are not smart enough to go on with it. One company is Valve. They hate the PlayStation 3 because they are not smart enough to learn how it works.
PhoeniX999R 2 years ago
@PhoeniX999R it is the ps3's fault not the developers because it has an extremely powerful cpu(not very important in games) yet the gpu is actually weaker than the xbox360's. so what the ps3 does is it puts the gpu load on the cpu
maniax786 2 years ago
@maniax786 Although the NVidia RSX (The PlayStation 3 GPU) with the help of the 8 processors, can and will be able to handle such a game, just like many other games, such as Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, and Metal Gear Solid 4. I agree with what you said, the GPU is weaker than the XBOX 360's, but the system can still create more graphical content using:
- 50 GB Blu-Ray Disks for a large amount of image space.
- 1080p HD
- NVidia RSX
- 8 Core
These all contribute towards the GFX....
PhoeniX999R 2 years ago 5
@PhoeniX999R eventhough the ps3 is better than the 360, ps3 has some impressive features like the ones uve mentioned, sony should have put their money on more powerful gpu istead of such a powerful cpu, and yeah that cpu is a monster i must say but unfortunatley it is not designed for processing complicated graphics, the gpu is what is designed for that. anyway who cares? ps3 is still better LOL
maniax786 2 years ago
@PhoeniX999R I read your comment and just thought it was funny how 5 months later, and Crysis 2 is going to be on PS3 along with Portal 2 :) but you probably know that now don't you....
000TQ000 1 year ago
Comment removed
mathhenr 1 year ago
PS3=Epic Win. Simply put :P.
NeroRadec707 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
My PC can run GTA4 better than a PS3.
My PC can run Assassin's Creed better than a PS3.
If Metal Gear Solid were ported to Windows, I could run it better with my PC.
PS3 can do better than my PC, it's just that Sony made the developer tools difficult to use on purpose.
My PC = SUPER 1337!
PS3 = Actually MORE 1337 than my PC
SONY = FAIL
psphacker8 2 years ago
dude maybe cause u spend so much money updating the shit with about 4 gig of ram and some stupid named graphic card please stop being an ass
alexambrose1 2 years ago
My custom PC totaled up to $600, with a $90 ATI graphics card, a $80 AMD Athlon X2, a good ASUS motherboard that was above $150, 4 gigs of RAM from G-Skill, an average DVD burner, a 250 GB hard drive from Seagate, and other things.
The PS3 back in it's days cost up to $600 for the higher-end model.
I said the PS3 is better than my PC, but Sony made the development tools hard to use. If GTA4 were better developed for the PS3's architecture, it would run at 60 FPS and without crashes.
psphacker8 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
dude your a douche bag
flimflabber 2 years ago
bet your pc cost more though and it will go out of date in a second
kly45 2 years ago
Yea, it does cost more than a PS3 today. About $600 for a working system minus the display.
The PS3 is way more powerful than my PC, actually. It has as much computing power as 5 duplicates of my PC, or even more.
The problem is that Sony made very bad developer tools. This is why GTA4 doesn't run at it's full potential on the PS3.
If Rockstar Games had better tools, then GTA4 would utilize the PS3's architecture better, and run perfectly without almost any bugs.
psphacker8 2 years ago 2
Well we will soon see its full power when crysis 2 comes out (and PC)
amartinez97 2 years ago
Same thing with assassin's creed 1.... but now they are working on future multiplatform games to run better.
Traditz 2 years ago
@psphacker8 , jajaaj you don't know anything. A medium PC video card has 1TFlop of computing power while the cell can barely deliver 260GFLops. Not talking about the outdated RSX GPU which is only a reduced Geforce 7800GTX. So a Medium Graphics card has 4 times the computing power of the cell.
cdbular 2 years ago
PC Sucks Take it, barely anyone play's it, PS3 has Cell Which is about the power of 2 of the top line PC Graphics cards
cpsuperbrain 2 years ago
Your comment is no sense. You're talking about a CPU and then compare it to Graphic cards. That's enough for me to understand you know nothing about hardware. So please, next time learn something about what you're talking about and then speak.
Novecento 2 years ago
@cpsuperbrain.
Ahahahah. Are you serious?
arzak1 2 years ago
True.
AbyssGamer 2 years ago
@cpsuperbrain , ??? the cell can process 260Gflops, while a medion Graphics card cna process more than 1Tflop. An actual low end card actually has a lot more computing power than the cell.
cdbular 2 years ago
Funny That, PC Looks identical to Xbox 360 Graphics, stop Bullshiting people with your Nerd Talk, No One Cares, PC is Shit For Gaming, Most People have Games Consoles!
cpsuperbrain 2 years ago
@cpsuperbrain , hyeah rigth... whatever
cdbular 2 years ago
But They Wouldn't So Ha!
cpsuperbrain 2 years ago
whats the song?
raiderszuck 2 years ago
requiem for a dream
roach442 2 years ago
thell me the song name
darkspl 2 years ago
Comment removed
iknowmyname7 2 years ago
razors edge
iknowmyname7 2 years ago
great video..
malinokarvel 2 years ago
PS3!!!!!!!!
adaredevil4eva 2 years ago
It will be a while yet before programmers be able to program the cell to its full potential. The EE on the ps2 hasn't been programmed to its fullest yet and that came out in 1998.
goredeathrot 2 years ago
lol. its a uber-known track.
Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell (Requiem for a Dream OST)
berker1711 2 years ago
playstation 3 is overall better than the xbox 360, in price, graphics, games, EVERYTHING! including hardware
crustydonkey123 2 years ago 3
h3ll yes =]
gimics 2 years ago
I agree. I'm glad that they're finually down to a reasonable price, $299. I'm hoping to get one soon.
Lionheart638 2 years ago
the reason it was $400 is because your getting a console that will not died
HKFLX4656 2 years ago
anyone know the song?
raiderszuck 2 years ago
Britney Spears - 3
Northweeeezie 2 years ago
can we stop arguing over which is better ps3 or 360 who cares if you think ps3 or 360 is better we will still be playing what we have anyway it doesn't matter which one is better, both are good and thats what matters
adwszx 2 years ago
BorkaBonum
PS3 hardly has ANY bottlenecks, its X360 that has them.
Because MS decided to use shared RAM instead of Dedicated RAM they cut the bandwidth in half. Xenon has 2 HUGE flaws in it, having slow cache in each core and having shared cache between the 3 cores.Without the eDRAM pixel processor doing 4xMSAA, the fillrate of the GPU core itself is 4 billion texel/sec and almost equal to GeForce 7600 GT.
snowman8510 2 years ago
whats the name of the song?
raiderszuck 2 years ago
Aint that the truth. PS3 4 LifE!!
V
V
V
V
freeinfotv 2 years ago
i had a 360 played it alot, but unless u own a ps3 and witnessed its power, u'll never know/understand how good ps3 is. Its a secret, sony knows it, they not worried bout microsoft, lol, ps3 as a whole entertainment package is a different realm, and frankly...when i try to play xbox, i can't, its utterly boring compared to what ps3's unparalled power and experienced...so please stop talking crap, PS3 is truely the best console....and thats the truth, so stop talking like u knw wut ur saying
TheRareone777 2 years ago 17
I have a PlayStation 3 and there is no magic or "fanboyism" in the fact that Xbox Live is simply alot better service than PlayStation Network, Xbox 360 upscales to 1080p better overall, Virtually all multi-system games look- and performs better on Xbox 360. Try doing this sort of comparison yourself and you'll take back your ridicilous claim.
Sony is amazingly bad at software. But still delivers an overall multimedia-oritented machine with game-capabilities.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
lmao 360 isnt even true 1080p
As for the multiplatforms do you have any idea why they look and/or perform "better"?
SamaT979 2 years ago
Xbox 360 is capable of delivering a native 1920*1080p image. But this generation of console hardware lacks the texture bandwith to properly do 1920*1080 in the first place as the higher resolution means trading in most of the important shader technologies, like self-shading and proper environmental shading techniques and trade in alot of performance.
If Multiplatforms would look and perform better on Xbox 360 for any reason it still gives Xbox 360 a significant upper hand.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Not many games on the PlayStation 3 is "true" 1080p either. Gran Turismo Prolougue for example is 1280*1080.
And virtually all games on the market is rendered in 720p. And it is documentet the scaler on the PlayStation 3 at times does a terrible job upscaling 720p to 1080p, look at Ratchet and Clank, it looks completely rubbish on a 1080p monitor.
Many games on the PS3, just as the X360, doesnt even run 720p. MGS4 runs at 1024x768, which isn't even widescreen but 4:3.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Wtf? You missed my whole point. My point was the 360 CANT run true 1080p AT ALL. Ps3 can. I never said ALL GAMES ON PS3 RUN 1080p!!! Are the devs doing all they can...no. As for 360 getting a significant upper due to dev laziness and/or incompetence. That only goes for games that are out right now. I never said or even implied 360 didnt have any advantages.
And it's VERY inaccurate to say "SONY is bad at software" they don't make games.
SamaT979 2 years ago
Sony makes the development kits, they maintain PSN services, they maintain the PlayStation 3 Operating System and its features. But yeah, that's not software, I guess it's magic.
Xbox 360 can do 1920*1080 resolution which history has proven and will become more utilized with ZuneHD. It's not too used in games as it's either running 720p with flawless technologies, or run twice as many pixels with completely castrated visuals, on PS3 or Xbox 360.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
360 CANT DO TRUE 1080p
/watch?v=MakQpMSKP7I
SamaT979 2 years ago
That's the DASHBOARD resolution.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
If only the devs developed every game (even muliplats) like they were exclusives for each system. I know its more work...But its obviously gonna be harder to "port" a game designed for 3 cpus to a 7 cpu system. It would make more sense to do the reverse (ala FF13). But yea...i guess the game industry doesnt work that way..they go where the money is and not the most capable (ala ps2). That being said the 360 has nearly capped its potential lol. We will see ALOT more great things on ps3.
SamaT979 2 years ago
According to who? The weakness with the PlayStation 3 is Sonys unfocused development tools and small(er) marketshare combined with a small gaming audience.
There's not alot more stuff to do on the PlayStation 3 that wouldn't be well possible on the Xbox 360. Both consoles are close enough to retirement and the PlayStation 3 hardware capabilities isn't about magic - it lacks the investors and lacks the GPU muscles to have an more futureproof future than the Xbox 360.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Just b/c ps3's gaming audience MAY be smaller than 360's...doesnt make it small. And show me a game that has topped Gears2 in graphics combined with high activity environments. Ps3 keeps topping itself. Uncharted 2 now has more environments and a smooth running multiplayer.
And KZ2 only uses 4.5 of the ps3's 7 cores. Not to mention the fact the Cell itself can produce graphics on top of the fact that the ps3 has a GPU...devs just need to tap into it.
SamaT979 2 years ago
It's smaller. Pushing less game sales, less online purchases, etc. Both in general and in ratio of sold systems.
There still is no magic. And how can a software use "four and a half" 'core'? And even if it did use 7 cores it wouldn't help too much as the GPU muscles are limited, and so is the RAM. You have to work around physical bottlenecks to gain the theoretical performance boosts.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Ok its smaller..
And you dont literally use "half" of a core. If a core is 1.2 ghz and the sofware only needs 5600mhz. Then you're not using all of the cores power. And you don't necessarily need more "physical" hardware to improve performance lol. If that was the case then why does Uncharted 2 look better than the first. Gears 2 better than Gears 1. You just need to utilize the memory more efficiently. Not sayin its easy. But not impossible.
SamaT979 2 years ago
But these core are undependent of each other. Even if we talk 3 cores at 3ghz each, it's still three cores at 3ghz, not 9ghz.
You talk about physical hardware. Utilizing more physical cores on the Cell processor is just that. What we see with Uncharted 2 and Gears of War 2 is merely software-based and we're talking optimization, altering texture technologies, caching, stuff like that - not utilizing different parts of the hardware differently from the original game(s).
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Yes..its 3 cores at 3 ghz..but dude if the game only demands the 1st core at 3ghz and doesnt use any other one. Then their is potentially more room to do more things.
And the second half of your comment is pretty much EXACTLY what i'm saying. Software = code. More optimized (better) code/software = less strain on cpu(s), more efficient use of RAM, cache etc...and this in turn allows EVEN MORE software to be run than before. Which potentially = BETTER GAMES (in a sense). It seems u knew tht tho.
SamaT979 2 years ago
You're not making any sense here. Even a poorly written code can use 100% of the hardware given. And if the application just needs one core, then it serves no purpose even utilizing the rest.
This development is natural and is happening all the time. But the way you formulated the impact simply looks wierd as it's not about making the hardware peak their limits, since even a poor code could do that, but simply making an application after the hardware given.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Yes..it serves no purpose in utilizing the rest..for THAT application. But say you make a sequel or even a whole new title using the same engine. You WILL know more about what you're doing and be able to spit more out faster. That COLD be said about the 360. But as you said before. 360 is familiar ground very similar to PC. Not too much to be learned here. They may be able to optimize a tad more yea. But they pretty much know what theyre doin already.
SamaT979 2 years ago
I found two titles on Xbox 360 running 1920x1080;
- NBA Street
- Virtua Tennis 3
This to prove the simple point Xbox 360 can deliver a native 1080p image, and is doing so. BUT , as always, 720p is always prefered over 1080p as current generation of consoles is simply lacking the texture bandwith and overall muscles to produce a 1920x1080 image while maintaining any accepable visuals.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
As for you software bit...you say they are bad at making software..i said they dont make GAMES. Cmon now..they don't. Then you go to list things that HAVE made..are any of those things..."bad"? You've already seen the work on their exclusives (dev kits).
And dude..don't you find it weird that the 360 cant display a TRUE 1080p IMAGE...but then you see these claims about "VT3 IS NATIVE 1080P!!!" NOT AN IMAGE BUT A VIDEO GAME!?!!?
SamaT979 2 years ago
Sure, developers can make things out of the Sony development kits. But looking at Killzone 2 it took them almost five years in development. During that time Epic had plenty time to release two installations in the Gears of War franschise, which all had more of an impact on the market and pushing this generation visuals than Killzone 2 did - it was simply too late.
3D Graphics rendered over an 1920*1080 is an 1080p image. Everything you see from your monitor is a series of images.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Yes KZ2 took "4+ years" to develop. It was actually supposed to be a launch game. So that means it was be made when the ps3 was still new. But wait...wasn't that when the devs new next to nothing about to ps3 architecture? Hm..no wonder it took so long. I doubt any typical game will ever take that long to develop on the ps3 anymore.
SamaT979 2 years ago
Guerilla developed their own engine. That alone takes alot of time. On top of that they did it exclusively for specific platform. And they had to deliver a game on top of that too. It takes time - time they have been giving and budgets Sony thought justified. But that doesn't mean any developer can magically utilize that knowledge.
And no 'typical' game has the budget to drag out development for so long. Guerilla had all their expenses covered and giving perhaps too much time to work with.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Yes..they made their own engine. Most of what you are saying here is what i was saying. But if theyre anything like Zipper (for the most part probably not)...Zipper is giving out their "secrets" for free to other developers. Not sure of how many will follow suit. But more knowledge definitely = less time. My whole point is development gets "easier" with time.
SamaT979 2 years ago
The whole "easier to develop with time" thing only spans actual Experience and improved development kits. Which is why the Xbox 360 development is so relatively fail-safe as any experienced PC developer (such as Epic) could get into it without having to re-learn for the sake of developing exclusively for a system using a random mix of hardware that will never be seen again on any other platform.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
That is true. That's one of the advantages 360 has over ps3. But again its a double edged sword. While it is "fail-safe" your comment about needing new hardware for performance boost is true more so on the 360 than ps3. BECAUSE they are familiar with the 360 architecture it becomes easier to "max out" than the ps3. We've already seen things that cant be done on 360. And there's nowhere to go but up. It's all about what we see from the devs. If they wana do greater things or not.
SamaT979 2 years ago
You're looking at it in a little wierd way. It's first NOW the PlayStation 3 has proven itself, at all. And this whole thing with "maxing out" the hardware is simply not going to happen anytime soon as we saw a huge leap with Gears of War one over to Gears of War 2 - something few thought could be done properly, this while also Improving performance.
There's not going to happen any magic this many years into this generation. Current generation is soon enough hitting retirement either way.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
From what you just said. You just said ps3 has a lot more room and can do more things software wise. No "maxing out" isnt the most important thing. Im sure later down the line Guerrilla will be able to pull off what KZ2 can do now (60%) and be able to do it using only 40 or 30%. That gives them MORE room to do MORE things after theyve had experience. The fact that 360 IS like PC architecture means MS WILL need new hardware alot sooner than ps3. Just like when you update your grfx card or w/e.
SamaT979 2 years ago
BorkaBonum
In 2005 at E3, GG showed a pre-rendered trailer of Killzone 2. They had NOT started devloping yet. Anyway, it took them 18 months to devlop. They said it themselves, just look it up.
The Cell + RSX makes PS3 like a GPGPU system, Mike Action from Insomniac said that. BTW, together, they outperform Xenos by at least 2x.
Just for thought..In Killzone 2 the RSX was maxed out, yet the SPUs helped RSX go BEYOND its max by 40-50%..That could be beyond Xenos max by 20-30%.
snowman8510 2 years ago
thats not truth get over it
sexpistolmaniaco 2 years ago
whats not truth?
the fact that it cant produce a 1080p jpeg IMAGE?
/watch?v=MakQpMSKP7I
SamaT979 2 years ago
An 1080p jpeg image in an 720p dashboard environment. The Xbox 360 has proven itself capable of delivering a 1920*1080 image, a' la (certain) games, so why do you even bother? Reality has proven you wrong.
If you want to produce an native 1080p image in the Dashboards 720p environment you'll have to trigger the application to display an native 1080p image. Which is not done as there's no real demand on Microsoft to do that - maybe things will change with ZuneHD, talking jpeg-playback.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
So you're saying microsoft allows 1080p games but not pictures being viewed through the dashboard. I well aware of what ppl "claim" about their games.
Alot of devs say "the ps3 is soooo hard to program for" as an excuse to justify their poor multiplats. But you see plenty multiplats that look just fine on both systems.
I wana see an actual test.
SamaT979 2 years ago
What?
Microsoft doesn't need to deliver a multimedia platform at this time. Their targeted consumer is not an multimedia enthusiast. Keeping 720p dashboards makes sense. 1080p is rarely used in 3D environments due to hardware restraints in this generation of consoles.
Many Multiplays looks fine on both systems, but comparing them yourself you notice the Xbox 360 almost always runs better shaders and better texture filters. It's all about knowing what to look for.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Yes..most multiplats look better on 360 and run smoother. I already know all about that lol.
And I never said they "needed" to deliver anything. Its still funny how you cant view a 1080p picture though. Cmon now..a single non animated image.
SamaT979 2 years ago
Isn't it also funny Sony allow their users to play their own music in games - only restriction the game cannot have any musical parts at all on its own, or the user's music won't play?
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Some ps3 games do have custom soundtracks. But MS makes it a requirement to put custom sounds in almost if not every 360 game. Sony doesn't...
SamaT979 2 years ago
No. It's alot easier than that. It's not about Microsoft giving developers a clear word saying; allow costum music. The development tools is done in a way that makes it that way - the music in a game is simply a layer of audio, an layer you can over-ride with your own music thereof muting the game's layer of music.
It's not harder than that. yet Sony seems incapable of doing this tiny thing so many fans has been asking for ever since release, which Sony has promised again and again.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
To make a 360 game they are REQUIRED to allow custom sound tracks. Sony just doesnt require it. Not yet anyway. So most devs havent done it. Although some have.
SamaT979 2 years ago
Actually MS has patent for this... :\
SamaT979 2 years ago
BorkaBonum
PS3's scaler is a weird one, it only upscales horizontal lines. Probably 90% or so of console games are native 1280x720. You forgot about NBA 07 and NBA 08 which also native 1920x1080 on X360.
In the future, with advancements in procedural textures and procedural geometry, the PS3 could probably pull of FULL 1080p with the quality of Resistance 2...X360..Not so much.
snowman8510 2 years ago
@TheRareone777 God bless u son
SReturns 1 year ago
@TheRareone777 See. the funny thing is? Xbox is the most popular console? With the most exclusives? With the highest rating? Yet the graphics are the exact same in all top released games for both consoles? Cause they are capped for consoles? They both run the same DX engine? And PC Runs DX11 ? With i7 Processors and unlimited graphics power and higher quality than 1080p? Yes, i think PC wins? Also Xbox wins after that? Cause PS3 hasnt shown this "POWER" Yet in any really amazing way tbh.
TubedProductions 1 year ago
@TubedProductions
I'm not being a fan boy or anything I own a PS3 and Xbox 360 and I have a gaming rig. But for me PC gaming is only being kept alive by the sales of the PS3 and Xbox and there multiplatform titles that are on the PC. There's been no successful PC exclusive since the days of Deus EX, in terms of story, graphics, game play that is a AAA game and exclusive, it loses out to DLC a lot as well... I just hope theirs gonna be a killer app soon. =(
BigBoiBoss1 1 year ago
Comment removed
mathhenr 1 year ago
@TubedProductions I agree...no developers have used this "power" yet...
primordial27 1 year ago 2
@primordial27 Are you serious? Uncharted already maxout it's CPU and stressed the GPU, what else do you want more? Maxed the Blu-ray Disc?
neogaiden 1 year ago
@neogaiden In a manner of speaking, YES!
joseph971 1 year ago
Ooops never mind
Gentile24 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
How did gears of war 2 get in there?
Gentile24 2 years ago
How did gears of war 2 get in there???
Gentile24 2 years ago
man i really wanna play some uncharted and MGS rit now
KillSwitch2170 2 years ago
nice
mavaro316 2 years ago
awsome
captianspatula 2 years ago
duddeeee that was sikk
steven10462 2 years ago
dont care what people say to ps3, kudos to MGO4!! cant w8 for the next one...even though its also on xbox.
mark9111111 2 years ago
lol learn to spell MGS next time + the next MSG, MGS:R won't be a true game in the MGS series
in other words its not going to be awesome :P
aznphil88 2 years ago
These are mostly cut scenes, which are rendered in 1080p HD on all consoles (which makes them the same quality on all consoles)
American2142 2 years ago
Yeah it looks like some noob just put a bunch of PS3 trailers together in WMM.
*sigh*
Some of them probably are in real-time, though. Some of them.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
Comment removed
American2142 2 years ago
¡fuck!, people, quit usign this fucking song, i hate to see videos with this song.
SkullFilms 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ps3 has no games
greyscale1234 2 years ago
We are in 2009 dipshit. Ps3 has now better games than 360
Kickass video btw (loads of jealous 360 fags here)
GeForce47 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ps3 has no games
greyscale1234 2 years ago
Are you gonna keep saying that like a crying kid?
GeForce47 2 years ago 5
>implying ps3 has games
greyscale1234 2 years ago
Are u blind or what?
nofreedomofspeech 2 years ago
Why does people have to be "jealous" over the video? Most of the titles presented is in fact multi-system and one is complete crap (Haze). The only other games I noticed is Killzone 2 and Metal Gear Solid 4 as far as exclusives to. And I saw some other game looking like "The Club" too.
I got myself a PlayStation 3 Slim and Killzone 2 last week, and until they add trophies to Metal Gear Solid 4 I feel there's no other game on PlayStation 3 today I couldn't have on the Xbox 360.
BorkaBonum 2 years ago
Haze is crap but there are much better games now, not only kilzone 2 or MGS4.
GeForce47 2 years ago
uncharted 2 ?
GT5 ?
God of war 3 ?
MAG ? (search this :)
Final fantasy 13 versus and FF14
Heavy Rain ?
:D
BigBoiBoss1 2 years ago
- Unreleased
- Unreleased
- Unreleased
- Unreleased
- Unreleased
- Unreleased
:(
BorkaBonum 2 years ago