Katana VS Kusari-gama & Kunai - Ninja Performance at Ninja Town

[wwwspider]

Ok my understanding is this ninja were artisans like the blacksmith who made the katanas for samurai they were not of the same social caste as samurai. They did the espionage that was beneath the samurai to do. They gathered info and on occasion assassination. They wore tattoos which samurai never wore. The samurai never cut down a tattooed man not due to respect for him but out of contempt or awe of perceived magic associated with the person.

[frianejade824]

that was so cool~!!! :DDD... i can't get enough watching how to use the kusari-gama :D.. so funny too XD.. it'd be so nice to learn how to use that :).. so dangerous too~

[madeofhatred]

also i think kyoketsu shoge outdates kusari gama

[outbreakbiohazard]

lol tenchu

[lucianwindgates]

dam his por nuts DX

[PeichenPhilip]

How interesting

[PureBreadFighter622]

where is the kunai

[gameboy281]

toward the end

[ihaterobbie123]

What they don't mention is that Musashi defeated the greatest kusarigama fighter of his time using Niten Ichi. While his wakazashi was ensnared he cut Shishido Baiken with his katana.

Against one sword itr may be usefull, but against two it has a massive disadvantage...unless your opponant is a ninja who makes an X-shaped lock 20ft out of range for no apparent reason.

[BlueSaryu]

@ihaterobbie123 it is possible to fight a person who used two swords with the kusarigama, you just have to make sure you block the second sword with the kama after you've ensnared the first, and then use leverage and body weight to twist the sword out of thier grip. It is definitely harder though.

[VictorMWolf]

@ihaterobbie123

In that situation, it would be logical to modify your strategy with the kusarigama. Musashi won because he understood how most fighters used the kusarigama and figured out the simplest way to counter it.

In almost any discussion of combat and weaponry, it is more often the person wielding than the weapon itself. Not 100% of the time, but very very often.

[ihaterobbie123]

@VictorMWolf Musashi simply employed Occam's razor as we all do every day.

It'd be very difficult for me to argue that it was down to the weapons used considering the victor was widely renown for his skill, but the kusarigama doesn't strike me as a versatile weapon. For instance, against a spear you'd be screwed.

[SpiderKnightmare]

ok some quick answers to straighten things up. only iga ryu ninjutsu uses katanas and wakizashis. fuma and koga ryu ninjuts use ninjatos. holywood had no part in this whatsoever. ninjatos started as makeshift swords when the samurai lost military role which led in the birthplace of ninjas in the first place. iga province obtained katanas through raiding and in rare events of aiding as spies in japanese war. most ninja weapons are makeshift or farming tools. like kama, kusarigama, nunchaku, etc.

[andaconda91]

it is so funny when they go "ooooooohhh"

[xCyberJackalx]

They say the Ninjato straight blade thing came about in Hollywood in the 80's but the Japanese Periodical Drama 'Shinobi No Mono' which was primarily choreographed by Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi, contained straight bladed swords and curved blades swords, all used by the Ninja in it, makes me wonder about the whole Hollywood invention thing.

[DevendraTheNinja]

"Ninja Swords" are just a Hollywood invention. No such thing ever existed in history.

[BakaYaru13]

So ninja used katanas?

[DevendraTheNinja]

Yep pretty much

[BakaYaru13]

Actually... They didn't. Have you read hatsuni's books on the subject? They just filed down like scrap metal. And used straight swords. A far cry from the finely crafted, curved katana.

[SnIkLeeT]

"Ninja Swords" as you put it are called Ninjato. Similar to the katana, but with a straight blade

[JdownStuff]

Some time's Ronin were Ninja's.. or shinobi's.... People who think ninja's using katana are dumb.. first of all the are assasin's who were spy first but then the become assasin's the katana has a curve and thats pretty unhandy for climbing on walls.. and its too big, and thats wy the shinobigatana is smaller and straighter.. and about the fact that shurikens were to kill people is wrong, the shuriken was for distrtact people like trowing into his eye or on his nose..

[brreed82]

Ninja did not use straight swords. You will not find any historical account of ninja using straight sword. Ninja did use katana. They were often modified to be shorter than the saya, to allow for a quicker draw. Or mounted in the saya with the blade in the handle. When an opponent goes to stop a draw with their hand. The saya is pulled from the back to expose the blade tip. Ninja would have never used anything that made then stick out as ninja. Keep watching anime and calling people dumb though.

[glennbuchanan1]

Are you meaning to say that ninja did not use the square tipped swords that are portrayed in not only "Hollywood"depictions but also Japanese Animated features and live action movies? i am sorry but you are coming across has somewhat conceited and maybe a little too brash. i can understant Hollywood messin facts up, but are not the japanese somwhat regarded in a simular light to Germans?(genraly speaking) In has such they both are famouse for their meticlous attention to detail?

[brreed82]

Im sorry if it came off as conceded to you, but yes, i do think anime is a bullshit source for historical accuracy. It doesn't have anything to do with attention to detail. The Japanese, like ALL nations embellish and exaggerate their cultural importance. And there is no historical account of anyninja ryu using straight swords.

[TheMHandDSfan]

@brreed82 i read somewhere that there aren't any actual historical accounts of ninja's, correct me if im wrong, also wasn't the kusarigama used in dueling? As I have read about musashi's dual with a kusarigama user.

[lileichmann]

@brreed82 Sorry to be a noob but could you elaborate about blade mount in the saya and pulling it from the back?

[brreed82]

@lileichmann no prob, may take 2 relies. It may have been quite rare...but, there are accounts of modified katana with "false" handles. In a fight, and opponent would be smart to try and stop his attacker from drawing his sword. When he saw his opponent go for his sword, he might try to grab the attackers hands and sword to keep the blade in place. Then use a smaller blade to try and kill the attacker.

The attacker would let this happen because he had modified his equipment for this scenario.

[brreed82]

@lileichmann 2) The blade is fixed into the saya upside down. So only 3 or 4 inches (of the sharp side) sticks out. The false handle simply slides over this part to cover the tip, and make it look like a normal katana/saya.

when the other person grabbed the handle to stop the draw, he would pull back on the saya, leaving the warrior with the false handle in his hands. The attacker is free now, and can quickly jab the modified blade into his opponent. Again probably very rare, but very nijaish:p

[banddude121]

They used a katana but it was shorter than the samurais katana, get your facts straight.

[M0n4rch]

lol they added sound effects

[imisspokemon]

Ninja were Japanese people who taught themselves self defense during an unknown (to me) time period. Samurais were simply warriors who followed a code and had loyalty to a Daimyo

[shaolinkungfu666]

that is mostly correct. the main differences between ninja and samurai was that the ninja were (apart from a select few, like some of the ninja of iga ryu) of a much lower social class. the social position of the ninja was somewhere just above the horse. also, ninja did not often use a "normal" katana. the term "ninjato" is incorrect. the proper name for a ninja's sword was a "shinobigatana".

[shaolinkungfu666]

(in continuation of my last comment)-

a shinobigatana was usually wakizashi (or other blade shorter than a katana) with the tsuka, fittings, and sheath (i forgot the japanese name for sheath) of a katana. this mislead an opponent in that it made them believe that an iaijutsu (or battoujutsu) drawing technique would come out slower than it actually did. the modern view of what most people would call a ninjato is often thought to have a straight blade.

[maikerugo]

Although it is often suggested that some were either samurai trained in espionage techniques and alternative tactics or possibly ronin.

[scottbaioisdead]

the kusarigama was a dueling weapon used by samurai theres no evidence at all its based on a farm tool, the construction of a kama used for farm work is completely different from the kama used in the kusarigama which is more similar to a jingama or tobiguchi. i own several real kusarigama and they definitely had nothing to do with cutting grass

[iamhere001]

wow. thanks for correcting me. i'll edit it right away. :D

[scottbaioisdead]

yea enter the ninja is a horrible site for information run by frauds who think koka ryu still exists. ninja were samurai by the way

[kreiger]

Ninja were not samurai. Ninja didn't/wouldn't follow the Bushido Code.

[scottbaioisdead]

bushido wasn't codified until 32 years after samurai stopped existed, the idea of bushido was created by inazo nitobe based on the stores of a samurai who was never trained in any nartial art but was an accountant who was samurai by birth. do some research

[kreiger]

Bushido was developed between the 12th and 16th centuries. And samurai were still in active duty up until the early 19th century.

[scottbaioisdead]

state a historical references of a codified form of bushido existing before nitobe please. oh also prove historically the ninja were not samurai, list names please as i can list hundreds who were, including all ninja of iga ryu whose names are recorded in various texts

[kreiger]

At this time, the conflicts between the clans of daimyo that controlled small regions of land had established guerrilla warfare and assassination as a valuable alternative to frontal assault. Since Bushidō, the samurai code, forbade such tactics as dishonorable, a daimyo could not expect his own troops to perform the tasks required; thus, he had to buy or broker the assistance of ninja to perform selective strikes, espionage, assassination, and infiltration of enemy strongholds.

[scottbaioisdead]

that looks like english to me, what japanese source is this from. please name the book

[scottbaioisdead]

ninja-gear (dot_ com isn't a legitimate source to me though

[Haku92292]

Loo, your saying Ninja weren't samurai, right? Some, maybe not, but some were. You've heard of attori Hanzo, right. He's very famous. Anyway, he was a samurai, and a ninja. Many Ninja were ronin, and many were active Samurai. Its a ninja's tactic to be decieving

[kreiger]

Maybe some, but not all.

[shademelonely]

@iamhere001 that was freakishly civil. i'm glad to see people like you especially on internet forums. *fist bump*

[hornetpalooza]

@iamhere001 Many ancient weapons were based on tools to obtain food or do proper (i.e non combat) work. Kukris, flails, axes, hammers, kamas and even swords. The construction technique were modified because the purpose of the tool changed.

[kreiger]

The kama is based off of the synth used for cuttinggrain/rice. A lot of weapons have been based off of farm tools, as that is what those people had to defend themselves with.

[scottbaioisdead]

sorry thats a complete myth, if you've ever actually seen both you'd know they're totally unrelated. a kusarigama is closer to a tobiguchi than the tool used to cut grain. please state you historical reference for this conclusion though. japanese sources please so i can look them up

[robertekew]

@scottbaioisdead the kusarigama was also developed by a samurai.

[scottbaioisdead]

@robertekew thats exactly what my post says.

[triviumfr3ak]

@scottbaioisdead bro, ninjas during the fuedal era made weapons out of farm tools and household stuff. kusarigama is indeed one of them, made of a sickle, chain, and weight. not much to it.

[Korisuya]

@triviumfr3ak want to post historical documentation on that? every ryu that uses kusarigama uses a jingama with weight and chain as opposed to a noborigama or standard kama for agricultural use. huge difference in construction and availability, especially when we have documentation that ninja were samurai.

[triviumfr3ak]

@scottbaioisdead modern day kusarigama have probably been modified, but believe me, back then they used whatever they could get their hands on without much cash

[Korisuya]

@triviumfr3ak once again please state historical documentation that states ninja were poor oppressed farmers with no money, all the documentation existing in history shows ninja having 2 names at least which is only allowed within the samurai class, with most ninja having three names meaning they were granted a higher status and pay. now please state the japanese sources you used, not steve hayes books.

[triviumfr3ak]

@Korisuya lol dude im not going to go out of my way to cite my sources, this is youtube, i know for a fact ive seen in other vids and ive read online and stuff that was exactly what ninjas did. they werent upper class people with a ton of cash, they were average artisans that were making ends meet by day. samurai =/= ninja. samurais were honored people that had a code to go by and stuff, and would never use their skills for the things ninjas did. ninjas were masterless samurai

[madeofhatred]

@triviumfr3ak you are so fucking retarded it hurts.

[triviumfr3ak]

@madeofhatred your name says it all.

[madeofhatred]

@triviumfr3ak my name is an allusion to a band, and in no way represents myself, as online i am an anonymous entity

[triviumfr3ak]

@madeofhatred it isnt relevant if your name is a reference to a band, just the fact that you've named your account that states a great deal about your personality friend.

[madeofhatred]

@triviumfr3ak not really, as i believe we are all one consiousness and should learn to love everyone as much as we love ourselves (as according to every religion ever.)

however i am also a really big fan of the band made of hate.

but made of hate was taken.

do not make assumptions about that which you do not know

[triviumfr3ak]

@Korisuya that were payed money for bounties. they were trained by someone that also knew the art, but in no way shape or form were they ever related to the higher ranked samurai

[scottbaioisdead]

@triviumfr3ak so you're saying all the documents in iga which list all ninja and their pay are fake right? ninja were bounty hunters now? can you post one example of bounty hunting actually existing in japan? "i saw vids on youtube" and "i read stuff online" aren't valid historical sources. please post something from the kosei iranki, ninpiden, shoninki, bansenshukai, etc that says ninja weren't samurai, since all those sources state they were.

[triviumfr3ak]

@Korisuya i promise you ninjas did things that were unthinkable for a samurai.

[scottbaioisdead]

@triviumfr3ak you do understand there was no "samurai code" until 30 years after samrai stopped existing. bushido was codified by a guy hearing stories from a bookkepper who had never seen battle nor trained in a martial art in his life, he was a samurai in title only.

[triviumfr3ak]

@scottbaioisdead not officially, but the masters taught the apprentices everything they knew, including moral values and the difference in right and wrong.

[scottbaioisdead]

@triviumfr3akcan you prove this with historical documentation? can you state how this "difference between right and wrong" samurai love as you put it can be shown in the cases of rape as the first act of courtship in japanese samurai caste life, since it's been included since the heike monogatari. also can you explain the kidnapping of women and children etc. how long have you lived in japan again?

[triviumfr3ak]

@Korisuya I know this is really late, but a reply led me back here. Modern day kamas are indeed not identical to a sickle found on a farm. However, back when ninjas were relevant the ninja would use whatever weapons they could get their hands on at the time, yet, would not make them stick out. They used kitchen knives, makeshift kusarikama (consisting of a simple scythe, chain, and weight), blacksmith tools, etc etc etc. Most martial arts weapons are very simple, and this is the reason why.

[D100J]

@scottbaioisdead i certainlly hardlly can belive that the kusarigama would be used with the chains. so if you can explain how can the edge blade not used for farming?

[scottbaioisdead]

@D100J want to rephrase that to make it intelligible

[D100J]

@scottbaioisdead lets say the chains were'nt with the kusarigama. would than be well enough to cut grass?