13H Refutes CCHR: IOD (Chapter 11 (4)) Chemical Imbalances

[AkathisiA101]

Excellent PBS program that shows how todays kids are being turned into nothing but unnecessary customers for pharmaceutical and medical industry.

refute this 13h

" Frontline -The Medicated Child 1 of 6 "

seach on youtube and watch psychiatry drug and kill kids.

[13Heathens]

@AkathisiA101 Someone had flagged your comment as spam. I've removed the flag, and would request that it not be re-flagged.

Misdiagnosis, and what I call 'forced' diagnosis are both major problems within our society. Parents or teachers can't deal with their kids, and seek out a magic pill. It's a load of BS. It's a societal problem, not a conspiracy.

[Mrscientificmethod]

You say...Most of the currently listed disorders could be corrected by changing varied socioeconomic or environmental conditions which are causing the emotions in the first place. ' Which is what CCHR are saying. That there is no 'chemical imbalance'... that there is only behaviour outside which is considered 'normal' and therefore subject to society's controls. When Bruno expressed his non conformist ideas he was burned at the stake.....!!

[AppetiteForRoses]

You do realise that people with schizophrenia who show physical changes in their brains have a history of being on medication before the scans. Plus we don't know enough about the brain to be adding some of the most dangerous chemicals known to man as these chemicals disrupt and destroy the system elsewhere. The cause cell death for a start.

[tien714]

WTF? Chemical Imbalance is a big deal since drug companies are making a big fuss about it. There is proof of a chemical imbalance. Show me proof.

[13Heathens]

@tien714 .. I'm not so sure you actually heard what I said in the video .. If I simply reply to your response, there's a good chance that we'll end up in a needless argument. I would urge you to review the statements prevented within the audio segment, and reword your reply.

When a person is depressed (for example) the brain produces more of the chemicals which cause that emotion. This is symptomatic, but seldom causal. Did you miss that point entirely? (reply 1 of 2)

[13Heathens]

@tien714 (reply 2 of 2)

I am, in fact. highly critical of treating a symptom instead of seeking the cause of an issue - whether it is a medical or psychiatric issue. Treating an imbalance alone is analogous to a pain management doctor administering pain killers without proper attention being given to finding the underlying cause.

A chemical imbalance is as much a symptom as chronic headaches could be in the example above. Do you get where I'm coming from now?

[ColdVolcano22]

@13Heathens What is a 'normal' chemical balance though? How do we know when we have an imbalance if we don't know what the normal balance is? For example, what is the normal balance for serotonin, a monoamine of which deficiencies or excesses of are often cited as the cause of many disorders.

[13Heathens]

@ColdVolcano22 "what is a 'normal' chemical balance though?"

And thus is is, after all the people that have rushed in spouting BS.. someone finally listens and manages to see the issue as it is. There needs to be a base-line and a way to properly gauge the levels of these chemicals. They may know what chemicals within the brain affect, and we can give drugs to modify the release of said chemicals, but there is no effort given to measurement, and establishing what normal is.

[ColdVolcano22]

@13Heathens I don't have a Phd in Psychology or anything but I'd venture to guess that everyone has a different "normal". Or perhaps there is no "normal". I'm guessing that as we grow and change so too do the chemical balances and their ratios in relation to each other? if that's the case, wouldn't natural supplements known to increase monoamines and regular exercise suffice to "cure" or level-out most "disorders"?

As far as i know, there is no established average chemical balance baseline.

[13Heathens]

@ColdVolcano22 Nope, no base-line, nor is there any real effort being given within the field of psychiatry to find one. It would be like giving a diabetic insulin without knowing what their blood sugar is, or even knowing what it should be. This is one of my many criticisms of the field. Misdiagnosis is common, and dosages are often far higher than they need to be. But that's the tip of the proverbial iceberg .. however legitimate criticism tend to be lost in the sea of anti-psyche hysteria.

[ColdVolcano22]

@13Heathens Knowing this is quite disturbing. Not just because people are being misdiagnosed and being given potentially harmful medication, but also because it distorts and calls into question our understanding of justice and morality. How should we judge someone for committing murders if they blame it on bipolar disorder? How do we know they're not just using their disorder (or perhaps nonexistent disorder) as an excuse? How do we know they really couldn't control themselves?

[13Heathens]

@ColdVolcano22 "How do we know they really couldn't control themselves?"

We don't. So the lawyers from each side hire a lawyer to claim they were and weren't based upon which side hired them.. The system is broken, and has been for a long time.

[ColdVolcano22]

@13Heathens At what point does the transmission of a certain neurotransmitters become excessive? Is it different for each and every person, and if it is, how do we know when so much was transmitted they really couldn't control their behavior?

Without any type of baseline -either one for the average population or one relative to each person- we can't really know anyone has a disorder, not unless it's one that's effects are easily observable and obvious like Schizo

[13Heathens]

@ColdVolcano22 "..we can't really know anyone has a disorder.."

Correct. The majority of the science involved is based on things like case studies. However most of the currently listed 'disorders' are just billing codes for insurance purposes, which have more to do with poor life/coping skills than any sort of real brain chemistry issue. The problem is that culturally we'd rather take a magic pill than learn to deal with our problems.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens you say 'however legitimate criticism tend to be lost in the sea of anti-psyche hysteria.' Yet you are one of many that dismiss this criticism!! Ok.. well tell me what criticism you are familiar with and that respect... one example.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens You agree with the CCHR again.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens 'I am, in fact. highly critical of treating a symptom instead of seeking the cause of an issue' Then you agree with the CCHR? Why not?

[TMOvids]

Manic Depression - Monoamine shortage is only linked with depressive symptoms. On a genetic level, dopamine and serotonin could only account for a small part of the disorder (Serretti & Mandelli, 2008) This is why we do not treat it with anything resembling tricyclics, instead using Lithium, which isn't a mood stabiliser (Calil 1990, Barton Jr 1993) but a neurological impairment drug, hence having the same success rate as neuroleptics and anticonvulsants.

[TMOvids]

ADHD - The contents of the second link came as a surprise. I was expecting the universal claim that dopamine underactivity causes it. If brain structure causes it, why are we giving kids dopamine boosters to cure that? Anyway, the article didn't make much sense. One area affected understands time and space? That has sod all to do with ADHD. Ultimately I don't have a rebuttal to this because it's a minor claim and not much has been done on it.

[TMOvids]

@TMOvids it does make a fairly striking leap from noting the brain differences to declaring it genetic though. It's not behavioural because "If it was, one would expect that the child's brain would be functioning quite normally". I wouldn't. You can find brain differences in people that play the saxophone, but that isn't genetic. I'm guessing this leap has been done to prevent the inevitable accusation that the drugs cause the brain change, which they may well do.

[TMOvids]

Just as I began agreeing with everything...I am one of the people who says there is no biological problem causing mental illness.

Schizophrenia - Twin studies do not show genetic links to schizophrenia (search "joseph 2003 schizophrenia" for a summary of his book)

The dopamine level is normal in schizophrenia (Seeman 1995, Tuckwell & Koziol 1993)

MRI scans analyses for the time being are worthless as the drugs that treat schizophrenia cause the physical brain damage observed (Lieberman 2005)

[TMOvids]

@TMOvids

At the end, the conclusion is that everything stated above is evidence for a biological root of schizophrenia. You can't do that. You can't point to 5 or 6 totally unrelated biological possibilities and then note the large number to enhance how strong your position is. That's the stuff of conspiracy theory. Making hundreds of shakey claims and then saying "there's just so much to debate about the official story that it must be wrong"

[Diazt3r]

Thus, for the serotonin hypothesis to be correct as currently presented, serotonin regulation would need to be the cause (and remedy) of each of these disorders [24]. This is improbable, and no one has yet proposed a cogent theory explaining how a singular putative neurochemical abnormality could result in so many wildly differing behavioral manifestations.

[Diazt3r]

Although SSRIs are considered antidepressants, they are FDA-approved treatments for eight separate psychiatric diagnoses, ranging from social anxiety disorder to obsessive-compulsive disorder to premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Some consumer advertisements (such as the Zoloft and Paxil Web sites) promote the serotonin hypothesis, not just for depression, but also for some of these other diagnostic categories [22,23].

[Diazt3r]

Attempts were also made to induce depression by depleting serotonin levels, but these experiments reaped no consistent results [9]. Likewise, researchers found that huge increases in brain serotonin, arrived at by administering high-dose L-tryptophan, were ineffective at relieving depression

[Diazt3r]

this is such a poor video

about the same level as scientiology lol

first of all go read some scientific journals before you make such stupid videos

and another question to contemplate on

how can there be any chemical imbalance when no scientist have been able to quantify a normal level of say serotonin.

i love these erroneous videos on youtube.

(cont)

[13Heathens]

I presume you're just grandstanding, and you're not proposing such a study should be done. You do realize how immorally reprehensible such a study would be, and what would be required?

Thus they must rely on case studies. . you seem to be yet another person that doesn't understand what a Chemical Imbalance is.

[Kalenos]

Thank you heathens. You only serve to prove a point i have TRIED to establish for years now.

Many of the people who take medication are not in fact suffering from a chemical imbalance, but a temporary onset of a mood disorder due to stress of some kind.

Some are genuinely fucked, as I've seen in my mothers' case after her brain surgery.

Mmn.. any way. Brilliant piece as always. Thank you for being eloquent, patient, and intelligent enough to articulate your points.

[Kalenos]

@Kalenos I think the idea of a chemical imbalance is highly suspect, I'm not denying it but... it is hard for me to believe it without hard science.

Mmn.. rambling uselesly. Hard for me to stay on one thought.

I whole-heartedly believe most can be treated without medication if they're willing to do the leg work. I'll leave it at that.. communication is certainly not my forte.

[hate4uall]

5 stars

[AnonymousOctupussy]

In order for a person to feel happy they need certain chemicals in the brain to function right. Those chemicals are what help a person feel their emotions.

[13Heathens]

Correct, but in most cases there is still a causal effect leading to that emotional state.

[YouKidsNever]

Most people just don't want to do the hard work to find out what's causing it - a pill is so much more convenient (nevermind they don't work)

[AnonymousOctupussy]

The world according to 13heathens.

[hartman5555]

Dementia, schizophrenia, Alzheimers, bipolar. Scientology knows nothing about these diseases and thus no one would even consider listening to them regarding the subject.

[Enturbulant]

What really gets me is that the brain is such a complicted organ . With neurotransmitters and receptors , synapses firing , thousands upon thousands of operations taking place at every moment of every day . Why is it so hard to believe that at some point the balance can be disturbed ! Fuck my transmission just took a shit on me and that's waaayyyyy less complicated than the human brain .

[Enturbulant]

There is also the criticism that many physical diseases were identified and even treated with at least some success decades, centuries, or millennia before their etiology was accurately identified. Diabetes is one notable example. In the eyes of Szasz's critics, such historical facts tend to undermine his contention that mental illnesses must be "fake diseases" because their etiology in the brain is not well understood.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@Enturbulant You totally misunderstand what Szasz says. Why not read a book?

[mulukchuwen]

-- a conspiracy to study the effects that things like drugs, mass-advertising, and bio-electrical manipulation (via airwaves & shock treatment) can do a person. I have no evidence to support my theory, because I don't care what others choose to believe or argue. No mainstream article will admit to this. We're basically guinea pigs from the cradle to the grave. Psychiatry/psychology are interesting as excuses to see how they (the establishment) cover their ass. Call me a crank if you will.

[mulukchuwen]

I wanted to let you know that I found this under a keyword-search for "eugenics." Why? I don't know. I'm not anti-psychiatry, but I'm not pro-establishment either. I too agree w/ the statement: Simply trying to take a magic pill to make all your problems go away is not healthy. I couldn't quite grasp in detail what the main cause of this is, but it sounds like scientology, and I'm just indifferent to that quackery. My take on psychiatry is as a counter-conspiracy. (continued).

[Cambreath]

I agree with your thesis, and would point you at a therapy called neurofeedback that can, over time, change brain electrical activity, and increase the general activiy in some areas.

I agree that many psychiatric cases can be solved via therapy, but some can be traced to chemical/electrical causes in parts of the brain.

[soulinite]

I repsect your opion but I disagree. I spent 2 years trying to deal with my dysthimia through talk therapy, exercise and diet. None of which worked. Efexor fixed me in 2 weeks.

[monsoonostrich]

dysthimia is too general a condition to be cured by a magic pill. You obviously have some bad childhood memories and I am sorry you are or were unhappy. I was prescribed Paxil, and I took it for one week, a week of sitting around with no thoughts. Just being instead of doing. It was a terrible experience, and someone without,shall we say, a knowledge of various drugs might not be able to perceive the minute changes in their psyche, the things that make us who we are.Emotion blockers are evil

[soulinite]

We live in a time of amazing new technologiies. Why do so many people suddenly become amish when it comes to mental illness?

The brain is an organ like any other part of the body and as such sometimes gets sick and needs medicine.

[soulinite]

Free Xenu!

[aarlin81]

Where are the scientific test that prove any-fucking-thing in Dianetics the mondern bullshit?

The MEDLINE database records two independent scientific studies on Dianetics, both conducted in the 1950s under the auspices of New York University.

Dianetics FAILED.

[BlueAsbestosCosBlues]

You are a research wizard,i love the internet for that ability, so easy to find answers most of the time

[dutchfagadam]

Great like all videos of yours. .

I tried arguing this stuff (neuropathology etc) but they argued that the problems wern't necesarily in the brain . . scilons :P

The CCHR lady even had a double-cross on her necklace.

[tenshirei]

Great links! NPR aired a story some time in the past year on a study in which schizophrenics who heard voices were found to be subvocalizing and stopped hearing voices when forced to hold their mouths open. It's tremendous that science is actually starting to figure these things out. (Although I guess there could be BTs making people's jaws move...)

[laladiel]

another great vid.i liked the secret squirrel you sliped in there.rock on.

[blueghist]

OK, my doctor told me to stop eating so much sugar because it was high, I stopped and and I wasn't so mean and angry.

Could that be a chemical imbalance, I think so.