FAIR 2004 conference talk by Roger Keller, a former Presbyterian minister who converted to the LDS Church, speaks about authority and religion. He speaks about the greatness of the Bible, and the great things about other faiths.
The logic behind this argument he makes in this video makes no sense. 1 There is no evidence whatsoever Jesus went about establishing a religious organization...everything you are quoting is Post Jesus. The Foundation of Apostles and Prophets still exists because we have their teachings in the bible. Luke 16:16 and Heb 1:1-2 Make it very clear the OT structure of law and the prophets was until John, since then Jesus is preached.
The restoration could have never properly taken place. There is no mention of it until late 1834 in Times and Seasons. Joe Smith's own Mom mentions that the authority was "charismatic." No mention every appears in the early editions of the Book of Commandments. Plus the idea of God restoring an "Aaronic Priesthood," a preparatory priesthood that was only available to the sons of Levi and Aaron is even more ludicrous. If you study Hebrews 7, we find that Christ's authority is unshakable.
Is it true that at the Last Supper, Jesus disclosed the secret signs and handshakes needed to get past Heaven's bouncers? I curse those evil, Satan inspired priests who wrenched those sacred and pure doctrines from the Bible.
The spirit of apostasy and the increasing influence of Hellenization contributed to a spiritual and doctrinal decline in the second and third centuries. According to this thesis, the result was that early Christianity, rooted in apocalyptic Judaism, was transformed into a synthetic blend of "Christianity" and pagan Platonic philosophy.
and you should be thankful for that too cuz thanks to those pagan influences we got to believe in a ton of cool things like the virgin birth, divine sonship, a ministry full of miracles, and the resurrection. Neat. Too bad Jesus was just a regular guy--terrific religious reformer--but still just as mortal as you and I.
It looks like he is having fun with his baseless lies. Arrogant man, having put away the word of God for his own "feelings." This is the horrific Lie of our age, and many generations before.
Interesting, a universal talking about apostacy....all religious traditions are now valid ways of coming to the father...essentially by implication this what he is stating....
Interesting that he is more of universalist and has found LDS as a fertile grown for this kind of unersalist nonsense....Jesus said. He was the way the truth and the life, nobody comes to the father except though HIM. He denies this....
A man can grow nearer to God through other religions..that's what he's saying...but you and I know that no man can RETURN unto the father and live with him forever except through our Lord Jesus Christ.
this commentator is satan in sheep's clothing, he is antichrist. OBEY the WORD...Jesus is the way the truth and life, and NO ONE cometh to the Father except through HIM
1. None of the Biblical scriptures used about the GA ever state its completeness. Apostasy predicted - yes, total church apostasy no.
2. None of the Apostolic Fathers talk of the GA, but say the apostleship was temporary and so bishops were appointed (the AFs).
3. The notion that the apostles were killed so fast that none could be replaced is simply lame. Members didn't kill them, and 3 apostles supposedly never died..
Mormons claim that orthodox Christianity has gone into apostacy and therefore, J Smith was needed to restore the priesthood. This is absurd because the 3 nephites and the John have the priesthood and never died and have been roaming the earth for the last 2000 years. Based on this claim, J. Smith would not have had to restore any priesthood since it was never lost. Therefore, his fabricated stories alone expose his fraud and inconsistencies.
I think that is a rather silly argument to begin with, but even if it were a solid one, you would only have to go to Mormon 1:13 which says that the "Lord did take away his beloved disciples" because of the wickedness of the people was so great.
religious pluralism is a lie. a damnable lie. a true presbyterian minister is a true Christian and therefore cannot convert because he has come to know and believe the truth. this man was never a Christian.
wow, so the church that Jesus promised would always exist and that He said He would be with "until the end of the world" was destroyed by the will of evil men only a decade after the last of the 12 apostles died? Hmmm... well, if that is the case, we have nothing to worry about because Jesus would have proven to be a fraud... unless.. the church is not apostles and temples, but is all who trust in Jesus.. Hmmm... Jesus says He is the way, truth and life, so Buddhism and Hinduism are 100% false
The Great Apostacy written by James E. Talmage is the most damaging and best read in my opinion.
Get a copy of it for yourself, check one out, It explains much concerning the works within the old and new testament as well as the Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ.
Yes,I agree that apostasy hapend and started around 100 AD because apostole John was still living, he was on Patmos where he wrote Revelation book. In that time bishop Klement of Rome wrote a letter to people in Korinth...he was telling them ''Jesus give authority to apostols and they chose the successors'' and on this sentence was made in 2. century the doctrine of 12 apostoles and later this was caled didahe. Any way for me this is the point where apostasy started...
Interesting insights. He cites 2 thes 2:1-5 as complete apostasy and this happened around 100 AD... But this verse is talking about an apostasy during the time of the antichrist which hasn't even happened yet, not a 100 AD. It mentions a falling away, but it doesn't mention a complete apostasy of Christ's Church.
With the death of the 1st Christians, the apostles and anyone else that had recieved God's Authority were put to death.
Ephesians clearly states that foundation of the church Christ set up would consist of apostles and prophets. It was the gift of prophecy that constitutes the true church. With their deaths, the foundation was removed and the original church fell into apostacy.
This is why it states in the new testament that "wolves already enter the flock" with different agendas.
Why only MAJOR religions?
omiolo 7 months ago
FAIR 2004 conference talk by Roger Keller, a former Presbyterian minister who converted to the LDS Church, speaks about authority and religion. He speaks about the greatness of the Bible, and the great things about other faiths.
omiolo 7 months ago
The logic behind this argument he makes in this video makes no sense. 1 There is no evidence whatsoever Jesus went about establishing a religious organization...everything you are quoting is Post Jesus. The Foundation of Apostles and Prophets still exists because we have their teachings in the bible. Luke 16:16 and Heb 1:1-2 Make it very clear the OT structure of law and the prophets was until John, since then Jesus is preached.
graythman 9 months ago
@graythman "There is no evidence whatsoever Jesus went about establishing a religious organization"
What is a Church? Did Jesus ever talk about building His Church?
omiolo 7 months ago
The restoration could have never properly taken place. There is no mention of it until late 1834 in Times and Seasons. Joe Smith's own Mom mentions that the authority was "charismatic." No mention every appears in the early editions of the Book of Commandments. Plus the idea of God restoring an "Aaronic Priesthood," a preparatory priesthood that was only available to the sons of Levi and Aaron is even more ludicrous. If you study Hebrews 7, we find that Christ's authority is unshakable.
970elchupacabras 9 months ago
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@970elchupacabras "Christ's authority is unshakable"
LDS do NOT deny that. I think you are CONFUSING things.
omiolo 7 months ago
apostasy is turning away from believing that salvation is by GRACE trough faith - to believe that it is by your own works.
if you have never received salvation by GRACE - you have never been saved away.
you are living in darkness - no matter what church you attend .
vizulfun 1 year ago
Jesus Christ is Jah!
LDS4Life71 1 year ago
Is it true that at the Last Supper, Jesus disclosed the secret signs and handshakes needed to get past Heaven's bouncers? I curse those evil, Satan inspired priests who wrenched those sacred and pure doctrines from the Bible.
GohModley 2 years ago
The spirit of apostasy and the increasing influence of Hellenization contributed to a spiritual and doctrinal decline in the second and third centuries. According to this thesis, the result was that early Christianity, rooted in apocalyptic Judaism, was transformed into a synthetic blend of "Christianity" and pagan Platonic philosophy.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
and you should be thankful for that too cuz thanks to those pagan influences we got to believe in a ton of cool things like the virgin birth, divine sonship, a ministry full of miracles, and the resurrection. Neat. Too bad Jesus was just a regular guy--terrific religious reformer--but still just as mortal as you and I.
GohModley 2 years ago
The process of Hellenization was so severe that it literally killed the religion Christ founded and replaced it with something else.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Another man that bought j.smith' bill of goods. Which part of it do you think he wanted most, godhood or a celestial harem ?
Bidimus1 2 years ago
Great video!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
It looks like he is having fun with his baseless lies. Arrogant man, having put away the word of God for his own "feelings." This is the horrific Lie of our age, and many generations before.
GracetoThee 2 years ago
Interesting, a universal talking about apostacy....all religious traditions are now valid ways of coming to the father...essentially by implication this what he is stating....
scooner67 2 years ago
Interesting that he is more of universalist and has found LDS as a fertile grown for this kind of unersalist nonsense....Jesus said. He was the way the truth and the life, nobody comes to the father except though HIM. He denies this....
scooner67 2 years ago
A man can grow nearer to God through other religions..that's what he's saying...but you and I know that no man can RETURN unto the father and live with him forever except through our Lord Jesus Christ.
CadjinGisclair 2 years ago
this commentator is satan in sheep's clothing, he is antichrist. OBEY the WORD...Jesus is the way the truth and life, and NO ONE cometh to the Father except through HIM
angelpapi007 2 years ago
I have trouble with the LDS great apostasy:
1. None of the Biblical scriptures used about the GA ever state its completeness. Apostasy predicted - yes, total church apostasy no.
2. None of the Apostolic Fathers talk of the GA, but say the apostleship was temporary and so bishops were appointed (the AFs).
3. The notion that the apostles were killed so fast that none could be replaced is simply lame. Members didn't kill them, and 3 apostles supposedly never died..
paukschlag 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mormons claim that orthodox Christianity has gone into apostacy and therefore, J Smith was needed to restore the priesthood. This is absurd because the 3 nephites and the John have the priesthood and never died and have been roaming the earth for the last 2000 years. Based on this claim, J. Smith would not have had to restore any priesthood since it was never lost. Therefore, his fabricated stories alone expose his fraud and inconsistencies.
cindyisa10 3 years ago
I think that is a rather silly argument to begin with, but even if it were a solid one, you would only have to go to Mormon 1:13 which says that the "Lord did take away his beloved disciples" because of the wickedness of the people was so great.
fairldsorg 3 years ago
religious pluralism is a lie. a damnable lie. a true presbyterian minister is a true Christian and therefore cannot convert because he has come to know and believe the truth. this man was never a Christian.
parakeethands 3 years ago
Wow listen to you ramble. It's so obvious you did NOT even try to watch the video.
HE IS A TRUE CHRISTIAN!
TrueChurchLDS 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wow, so the church that Jesus promised would always exist and that He said He would be with "until the end of the world" was destroyed by the will of evil men only a decade after the last of the 12 apostles died? Hmmm... well, if that is the case, we have nothing to worry about because Jesus would have proven to be a fraud... unless.. the church is not apostles and temples, but is all who trust in Jesus.. Hmmm... Jesus says He is the way, truth and life, so Buddhism and Hinduism are 100% false
apologeticsman 3 years ago 2
Comment removed
apologeticsman 3 years ago
The Great Apostacy written by James E. Talmage is the most damaging and best read in my opinion.
Get a copy of it for yourself, check one out, It explains much concerning the works within the old and new testament as well as the Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ.
FAIR what do YOU think of James E. Talmage?
TrueChurchLDS 3 years ago
Yes,I agree that apostasy hapend and started around 100 AD because apostole John was still living, he was on Patmos where he wrote Revelation book. In that time bishop Klement of Rome wrote a letter to people in Korinth...he was telling them ''Jesus give authority to apostols and they chose the successors'' and on this sentence was made in 2. century the doctrine of 12 apostoles and later this was caled didahe. Any way for me this is the point where apostasy started...
N19en71ad 3 years ago 2
Interesting insights. He cites 2 thes 2:1-5 as complete apostasy and this happened around 100 AD... But this verse is talking about an apostasy during the time of the antichrist which hasn't even happened yet, not a 100 AD. It mentions a falling away, but it doesn't mention a complete apostasy of Christ's Church.
zmcleod 3 years ago
With the death of the 1st Christians, the apostles and anyone else that had recieved God's Authority were put to death.
Ephesians clearly states that foundation of the church Christ set up would consist of apostles and prophets. It was the gift of prophecy that constitutes the true church. With their deaths, the foundation was removed and the original church fell into apostacy.
This is why it states in the new testament that "wolves already enter the flock" with different agendas.
TrueChurchLDS 3 years ago 5
Ephesians 2:20
Amos 8:11
Isaiah 60:2
Acts 3:21
Revelations 14:6-7
Daniel 2:24
All give references as well as many more concerning the apostacy and restoration of the Church prior to the 2nd coming.
FAIRLDSdotORG
TrueChurchLDS 3 years ago 6
Comment removed
MarkNParker 2 years ago
Comment removed
MarkNParker 2 years ago
Insightful perspective on the Apostasy.
archaeologyprof 3 years ago
"nobody was there to change anybody else, I like those kinds of conferences"
wow, what an incredible religious conference.
omiolo 3 years ago