Legalism plain and simple. That is what this dude is preaching. Luke 21:36 ~ "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
you may know this already or it may have already been said, i haven't been able to read all comments yet but from what I remember the term rapture comes from the latin term rapturus(probs spelt it wrong) which means caught up hence why people use the term rapture today.
i like calling it the gathering just as the bible does.
The word rapture is not in the text. Also the term "pre, mid, and post" tribulation is not in the text either. It was set it up that way to cause division. In Revelation 22:18, it says, "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."
@MrChristlovesu2 While that is true, it is a word which represents a belief based on Biblical text. It does not add or take anything away from the text. It simply sums up an event found within a text like 1 Thes. 4:16-18. If I were to take the Catholic position of, "there is no rapture (1 Thes. 4:16-18)," then I would be taking away from the text. Or if I were to say there are two raptures (1 Thes. 4:16-18), then I would be adding to the text.
@TheNeedForRepentance I just call it as it says in the bible which is the word "resurrection." I no longer use the word rapture because I know that the word rapture is not in the text. We must fear God & humble ourselves on this issue. There is a lot of division going on when it comes to the word of God & most of them so called Christians who believe in these myths have different opinions when it comes to certain scriptures & verses.
Watch out for damnable heresy. It everywhere on Youtube.
@TheNeedForRepentance How can the pre-trib rapture be a dangerous doctrine? If you understand the doctrine of Christ and accept the Salvation that Jesus offers, you are a child of God no matter what happens. I personally think that it will not be crystal clear until either Christ comes in a rapture or we see the Anti-Christ performing the abomination of desolation. Either way I don't plan on taking any marks on my hand or forehead. The gospel is what's most important!
@clockguy2 You're right in that we can't know every little detail regarding the end-times, but I think we can get a well-rounded idea. You're also correct with the Gospel being most important. Personally, I find any false doctrine dangerous, including eternal security. I believe people can fall away from the faith, and when it comes to the end times, Jesus said quite plainly that "at that time, many will fall away (Mat. 24:9-11)." There's no test like being faced with death.
It's called resurrection of the dead, not rapture. In (1 Corinthians 15:50), it says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. You must suffer unto death in order for your spirit to be raised up.
It's not a LIE here's the scripture 1Thessalonians 4:16-18 speaks on the pre tribulation rapture the catch for being able to actually go with the lord jesus christ is you must be living a 'holy and acceptable life in the eyes of the lord' or then you'll have to be a martyr of the faith in order to get into heaven.This will take place BEFORE the first 3 1/2 year period of false peace once the second 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation period happens it will literally be HELL ON EARTH
@Intangiblemobfigaz Your text in 1 Thess. 4:16-18 only speaks of a rapture. There is nothing there indicating pre-trib. In fact, quite the opposite. It says the "dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive..." According to this, those who are alive will be taken up after those who are dead. The first resurrection does not take place until after the Great Tribulation. See Revelation 20:4-5.
I am not associated with Harold Camping sir. The fact that YOU CANNOT HEAR THE VOICE OF GOD should be alarming to all who have visited your web site. One would then have to question who's voice you are listening to. People are welcome to visit my channel if they want to know the truth about the rapture. Your interpretation sir is so off base, I'm sorry for all who will be left behind for believing your untruths. God bless you. This is finished.
@MamasitaDeVegas Ma'am I've had people tell me they hear Gods voice and He's told them they could kill someone. But Jesus says were to lay down our lives. I had another guy couple weeks ago tell me he hears Gods voice and he had a completely different rapture view than yourself. The issue I have with you is you say I should trust your authority? Do you think Paul was joking in his epistles writing you are not to have authority over a man? Should I take your words over a chosen apostle of Christ?
One more thing. You don't have any authority over me, and you don't get to tell me I am out of order. Jesus does. Do you hear the voice of God? I do. If I was out of order He would tell me so. I get my instruction from him, not wannabees like you. You have a deep seeded self righteous pharisee spirit and you sir are the one who should repent.
You are wrong! The saints are the church. The saints are no longer mentioned as I stated. There will be new converts during the tribulation. You got one thing right. Yes, we will see when we stand before God.
The book of Daniel very cleary says that the 70 weeks are for Israel. The church has not been a part of the 69 weeks that have already passed. Why do you think the church all of a sudden will be a part of the 70th week?
Not to sound too critical, but, do you think the music you play in the beginning of your video is pleasing to God? Sounds too much like demonic heavy metal to me. I pray that you see "the need for repentance" and lose the heavy music. Grace be with you.
"Here is wisdom: Let him with the understanding number the multitude of the beast, for it is the multitude of a man, and his multitude come to fight in the name of Allah." Revelation 13:18.
@ABAisSCIENCE I'd really like to know what translation you're reading from? I don't see that in any of my translations. Don't you think you're adding to the Word there a bit bud?
@ecclesiastes118, I'm understanding that to calculate is to number when speaking of people who make up a governing body which is what all beasts (lion, leopard, & bear - Babylon, Greece & Medo-Persia) are. I'm also understanding the number upon locating them & identifying them is a multitude. I am also understanding that the whole Bible is Greek letters which could be converted into numbers but then all of Revelation would be rendered an absurdity.
Not to argue but, there are 2 raptures. The gathering of the elect is the second rapture. There is no martydom of the saints. They have a choice to be or not be beheaded, they were left behind. Yes...from the first rapture.People will only be "murdered" if they refuse the mark of the beast. Many won't. Fall away. Many will be mad at God because they didn't make the first rapture. Doesn't matter to them if they did not kept themselves holy or keep his commandments, like he tells us to do.
@MamasitaDeVegas I like how you said, "not to argue but..." and then you made an argument. : )
I just have a few questions:
1. Two Raptures? I need a scriptural basis for that.
2. Elect are gathered in the 2nd rapture? Then who is gathered in the first?
3. No martyrdom of the saints? See Rev. 6:9-11, Rev. 20:4, etc. By the way, if they are beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus (Rev. 20:4), how is that not martyrdom of the saints? Any clarification would be appreciated.
@TheNeedForRepentance 1. View videos on 2d rapture w/scriptures. Martydom: they were not left behind because of their testimony. They were left behind because they were not ready to go up in the rapture. Yes there are 2. We cannot descend with Him unless we are already with Him. The angel instruments the gathering of the elect. Jesus does not descend with a shout as He did in the 1st rapture. The only resurrections are for the just. All others go to hell. Those hell bound no ressurection.
I would urge you to study Scripture more, your visions do not trump those of the apostles and their writings aligning. You also as a woman(if your channel is correct) have no place teaching other men you should watch what you're saying to others. I say this lovingly, it's not that you don't have the ability--it's about authority.
There is a resurrection of those hell bound--read Revelation 20:11-15, this is at the end of the 1000 years
@droptozro It is written: my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Jesus freed women from your type of thinking. Many great women in the bible. I have authority, God gave it to me. I hear His Voice. Not droptozro or needforrepentance. If you believe you guys are the answer people are in deep trouble. God showed me my vision for a reason. Just like He showed John. I believe Him-not you. I say this with love brother, I know what I am saying to be true.
@MamasitaDeVegas ...continued. Even Jesus and the others taught this, do you not read?
1 Cor 15:20-28 shows Jesus will reign on Earth, unbelievers will have to be put in check by Him. We will rise with Him at His return. Rev 20:4-6 shows the first resurrection(Christians) and the rest won't be resurrected til the end of the 1000 years just as the verse says. Hades is destroyed because all in it will be resurrected, it will no longer be needed-logical as the text claims.
@droptozro You keep reading; because you have no understanding. Pray for wisdom. Wisdom is a good thing. Do I read? Of course I do. I also "understand" what I read. How come you don't? It appears that way. The church is not mentioned after ch. 4. The Holy Spirit restrains the antichrist right now. He can't do anything until the Holy Spirit is gone. You are claiming the Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation. This is not possible. The bride will be gone.
Rev 12:13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
@MamasitaDeVegas ...17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
These are Christians, this is the church. That part in Revelation 1-4 is only for THOSE churches(and our edification/warning)--discern what John was commanded
Rev 1:19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.
Ma'am, you are deceived. "freed me from your type of thinking... I have authority"
No you do not, you're out of order and you will answer for it. It shows in your false teaching.
The bride will be on earth and in Hades(Paradise)... what you profess is spiritual fornication, claiming we will live with Christ before the wedding which does not occur until His return/descent on Mt. Olive(Rev 21)--the bride is New Jerusalem(and her people).
@droptozro You are wacked out! Hades is not paradise. I have authority God has given to me. You believe what you want. I am not out of order you are. You are full of pride and have a haughty spirit. You are not walking in the spirit one single bit. I will not argue with you. I surely don't know why you believe you will weather the storm of the tribulation sir. You are obviously not that strong spiritually. You are the one deceived. You won't make it to the Second Coming. I prophesy this.
Again contradicting the Scriptures, the upper portion is Paradise as we see from Abraham and the rich man in torment(it's not a parable, it's a story with a real name, real occurrence).
Read Luke 23:43... Jesus told the man he would be in paradise with Him.
Then read Acts 2:22-32... see the real prophet David foretell that Jesus would not be left in Hades, but raised up.
It's a good thing you're a false prophet so far that I can tell, otherwise I might actually be concerned with you... it doesn't surprise me with those such as Harold Camping and the like around... it's clear the unclean spirits are up to no good.
There's a lot of people claiming the voice of God, that's great---I support that, but not those that clearly contradict the Scriptures such as yourself. This was a minor issue and you made it a salvation one. I'm proud?..God bless
Christ gathers her to us, when He sends His angels out so we will descend with Him and be glorified with Him.(Mark 13:27, Col 3:4).
The real issue is, you don't know what we're inheriting, and you're negating the point of the resurrection.
Christians will reign on EARTH. (Matt 5:5, Rev 21).
You do not discern these things and I gather it's because you're out of order. You are not in submission to the proper order, thus your fruit is bad teaching.
I would urge you to study Galatians... you really don't understand "what" happens when Christ returns or "what" you will be inheriting. There's not two raptures, there's one--a gathering of the elect at His return on the Mount of Olives, we will descend with Him and reign ... on EARTH. A renewed earth. No one is flying up into the actual heaven where the Father dwells, He is coming to us. Study Revelation a bit more please. There are two resurrections, one of just/unjust
@droptozro 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Yes... ..and so? Does this prove your rapture you believe? Or do you just vacuum this out? See, you don't understand this text because you don't understand the prophets or Revelation and how they link. You are being gathered at Christ's descent to be glorified with Him at the return on Mount Olive. You will reign on EARTH. You will inherit the land, Galatians easily explains the Jewish misunderstanding of Abraham's promise--the land, the New Jerusalem. Rev 21. God bless
Perhaps Jesus doesn't come to earth when the dead and alive are called up. Perhaps we meet Him in the air and it isn't technically His second coming. idk.
@filoIII According to my vision, Jesus will be waiting for us outside the planet in the 2d realm. He doesn't come down to the earth. Being "caught up" means we go up to Him. He second coming later after the 2d rapture when the angels gather up the elect. Then the last 7 viles are released on mankind before the second coming.
the biggest eye opening chapter for me is John 6. We know the dead in Christ will rise FIRST before we are taken up. So when does Christ raise the dead? "That I shall not loose none of all that He has given me, but raise him up on THE LAST DAY. everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY. No one can come to me unless the Father draws him and will raise him up at the LAST DAY." He says it a 4th time as well in verse 54
@mvmof2 Good point! How many "last days" are there anyway? Of course, you'll probably get one of those day-age people who will say.. "well, one day is like a thousand years... so you know..." Some people will argue anything to hold on to their beliefs. That's okay because those with ears to hear know better. Thanks for your comment.
@TheNeedForRepentance hmm perhaps they would throw that up...BUT they seem to make the 7 YEARS of trib exactly 7 YEARS OUR TIME. So how can they get it both ways. A day is God's 1,000, but the 7 YEARS of trib would be in our time of 7 years. Can't have it both ways in my opinion.
@mvmof2 Well, I think "a day to the Lord is like a thousand years" simply implies that time is irrelevant to an infinite God. Keeping it within context, Peter is addressing the claims of some about the "slowness" of our Lord's return. I do not feel we should use this as a basis to interpret "days" in the Bible as "a thousand years." If we did, it would mean that Jesus is not scheduled to rise again for another thousand years, which subsequently, would present quite a few problems.
@mvmof2 Haha... I don't know why, but for some reason I completely misread your comment. I thought you were arguing a day-age position. My mistake. Your absolutely right. They can't have it both ways, yet unfortunately, that's never stopped people before. Thanks again.
"Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
We should Thank God Always that he is as the word says, hold them into darkness and unto the day of their judgement so his word to be fulfilled and those who wanted "Barabbas" are geting him now with this time, strange doctrines of men. Let God use that heresy philosophy to revelal the ones we need to be aware of. and let him show us them by open example. They have a death grip on a lie, so be it! God has his ways of Plainly separating the tares and the wheat before it is Eternal, doesn't he?
There are plenty of metaphor expressions of the time Yeshua appears. King Davis Ps 50:1-3 Ps 68:1-3 and Isaiah64:1-4 and others say at his appearence the planet will incinerate. Matthew 3 tells us the Angels are the one whom do any gathering yet are in his hand AKA with him. So obviously the end is then. Matt 13 says the only harvest is plainly the end of the world. 2 Thess 1:8-9 2:8-9 show it also. Sin will never enter heaven again, so God is allowing the PTR cult to show us who loves a Lie.
Heb:2:3: How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
If I Lord is coming with the saints Jude:1:14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Saints that the Lord is coming with had to have been with him already for them to come with him. Continued:
Lu:21:34: And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Lu:21:35: For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Lu:21:36: Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Bravo! Excellent introductory explanation. I am concerned that Christians who are expecting to go through life without any affliction will give up their faith when it all falls apart. I have heard these kind of Christians for years do nothing and care nothing about the evils and corruption being done around us even now. They usually just say "don't worry about it, God is in control" fully expecting a pre-trib rapture so they can care about NOTHING in the mean time.
This is right on... pretibulation rapture cannot be substantiated in scripture. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of a pretrib (hooray... no suffering). Unfortunately, no case can be made for a pretrib without twisting all sorts of scripture.
@TheKJVberean Thanks for patiently ministering to this brother. Bear with him if you can and help him see his need for repentance (pun intended but without sarcasm). He needs to see that repentance is like peeling off layers and our hearts need to respond to God Himself and that the Word should be life to us more than doctrine and certainly not a hammer with which to hit our brethren.
@TheNeedForRepentance Eminence has long been considered an orthodox Christian teaching. To preach a Rapture after Tribulation starts means Jesus lied when He said, "Watch!" If the Tribulation starts first, who needs to watch... and why? You're not meditating on God's Word enough, brother.
@BludBaut Let me get this right. Jesus says, "Watch!" And you come up with a pre-tribulation rapture? That's your support? You've got to be kidding.
You can tell me I'm not meditating on God's Word all you want. I could just as easily say the same to you. I would love to believe in a pre-trib, but I have no reason to. It's a little too tickling to the ears; a perfect fit for the most lukewarm, lifeless, powerless, compromised church that ever existed.
4. Many (rightly so, I believe) see God's calling John into heaven to be a picture of the Raptures just as Enoch is. The fact that the Church ceases to be discussed supports that position.
@BludBaut God called John into heaven simply to receive a vision. To call that a rapture is absurd. John lived almost 2000 years ago. If he was raptured, we missed it. The difference between John and Enoch, is that Enoch never came back down. John did, just as Paul did. That's a false analogy.
The church is mentioned, just not the word "church." God's people are referred to as the "saints," which is, holy ones. They ARE the church.
4. Rev. 4:1 is simply God calling John into heaven to receive a vision. That is not a rapture. Paul was also called up to Paradise and given a revelation in 2 Cor. 12:2-7. That obviously wasn't the rapture.
5. 1 Thes. 4:16-17 supports my position. It says, "the dead will rise first, THEN we who are alive..." The first resurrection does not occur until after the Great Tribulation (Rev. 20:4-5). If the rapture comes after the resurrection, then it also comes after the tribulation.
3. Your supporting scripture (Mat. 24:36-42) starts out, "But of that day and hour, no one knows..." What day? The word "that" is a pronoun, which means it's a substitution for something that was previously discussed. Could it be that day, "when the sun is darkened... and sign of the Son of Man... and the angels gather together the elect..." You know, the one that happens AFTER THE TRIBULATION, which Jesus just previously spoke of in Mat. 24:29-31? Keep it in context buddy.
1. I didn't address the parable of the ten virgins because it doesn't support any rapture time-line. There's no point of reference to where this event occurs along end-time events. It supports a rapture, yes. But not when.
2. Your reference to Luke 21:34-36 I did address. "Escaping these things" is escaping the wrath of God. But as I already said, God's wrath is not the Great Tribulation. Were all the martyrs of Christ victims of God's wrath? Come on man...
@TheNeedForRepentance Excuse me for interjecting here but you're not thinking very broadly. The fact that there are martyrs for Christ during the Great Tribulation (God's Wrath on the world for unbelief) simply testifies that evil men will murder Believers; it doesn't mean that God Wrath is what kills them. You need *consider* what you hear.
The parable of the ten virgins is relevant even though it doesn't address a timeline. Again, consider, i.e., meditate on God's Word.
@BludBaut So there are martyrs for Christ during the Great Tribulation? Isn't the church supposed to be raptured before then? By the way, God's wrath begins at the bowl judgments (Rev. 16:1). Which ironically enough, follows after the last trumpet, which is when we are raptured (1 Cor. 15:52).
I don't know why you brought up the ten virgins. I said it supports a rapture, not a timeline for the rapture, which is what you just said. Read a little more carefully.
"But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days... and the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky... and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect..."
@TheNeedForRepentance We know in part and we prophesy in part (those who prophesy -- evidently you don't). No one knows it all. We're all still learning. We know what the Lord shows us and we think we know what we think the Lord shows us. We think wrongly when we lean to our own understanding (which is what you're doing on this doctrine) and pretend "the Lord showed me in His Word." The Lord's voice is something you should know (Jn 10:27) and not be pretentious, presumptuous or arrogant.
@BludBaut Well, what you think the Lord is showing you is wrong. I'm not pretending anything. Jesus made it crystal clear in Matthew 24:29-31. Funny how He forgot to mention this pre-trib rapture. The adjectives you used to describe me are not accurate. It's frustration from dealing with heresies. Now if you're going to respond, try and support your position (with scripture). I won't have you flooding this page with theories you can't support.
I appreciate your concern for our persecuted brothers and sisters and for posting the video about them, but you're misled about the Rapture. I'm been a believer longer than you've been alive and there was a time before you were born when the Lord was teaching the Church about the Rapture and He taught me. Your grasp of history is incorrect also. Space does not permit teaching this here but if you know the voice of the Savior, then you should pray much and seek the Lord. This doctrine is not bad.
A. How long you've been a believer is irrelevant. Honestly, that sounds like something a Pharisee would say.
B. You telling me I'm misled is going to help me much. You need to show me.
C. I also don't care whose voice it is you're hearing. John Crowder also believes he's hearing from God. The voice of the Spirit is not going to contradict the written Word. That's why we have it.
If you're concerned about space, by all means, send me a personal message.
In Greek debate, all questions are answered negatively. "When Jesus returns will he find faith?" NO. Want the clearest description of rapture?
Rev 11:8-12 "dead bodies (2 witnesses - Jews & Christians) shall lie in (Jerusalem) peoples & kindreds & tongues & nations shall see dead bodies 3 1/2 days & not permit burial. Alive will rejoice over them, party, send gifts, because the 2 witnesses tormented them (by living 4 God). After 3 1/2 days spirit of life from God entered them. Come up here."
Anyways we have argued for long enough. Just a debate bro rapture or no rapture I would get my head blown off before I would accept the Mark of the Beast. I always use scripture to back up what I say...
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe I've had enough myself. Just keep in mind that we are promised persecution (2 Tim. 3:12). Christians all over the world are faced with that decision everyday. It just hasn't hit here yet. If you're that close with God to give your life for Him, then you got nothing to worry about either way. Take care man.
@TheNeedForRepentance Amen, the Bible says Christians are not of this world, if they were the world would love them, like your video says. When the Holy Spirit comes down it changes all graciously, the 6000 years are up and the Lord can come at any time... Technology for the second coming, internet preaching the word through the hole world. Greedy governments determined on this New World Order, and we know what it is, a war against Christians if anything. That's why they use this mark for it.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Ooh! You're familiar with the New World Order, and you hold to a young earth. I got to tell you, if it wasn't for your pre-trib position, we would share similar time lines. The Day of the Lord (Millennial Reign) would not only be the seventh day of rest, but also the Lord returning on the third day. Of course, we can't know for sure, but I think it's a worthy speculation. And you're absolutely right. It is no doubt a war against Christians (Rev. 13:7).
Matthew 24:42-44 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
You would expect him after all those wraths have come! It says he comes with his holy ones, so yes, there is a rapture!
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe What day or hour? Perhaps the one He just talked about 12 verse earlier. You know... that day AFTER THE TRIBULATION! For the last time, I believe in a rapture. It happens AFTER THE TRIBULATION!!!
@TheNeedForRepentance Oh YEAAAA, after the tribulation when everyone is dead, he will come like a thief in the night and one will be taken the other left... Yep mhhmm im sure.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Who said everyone will be dead? "If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes... (Rev. 13:10)." Friend, He's going to come like a thief in the night to the world. The brethren, however, will not be overtaken like a thief (1 Thes. 5:4). You can't refute the truth I'm telling you, so you're going to mock it huh? Have it your way. Let me know how that works out for you...
@TheNeedForRepentance I was showing you how ridiculous it is for Jesus to come like a thief in the night, one will be taken an the other left, after the Anti-Christ has killed every single Christian for not taking the mark. He will have NO one to come like a thief in the night for, and no one to take and no one to leave. He comes for his church and then he comes again at his second coming WITH HIS CHURCH. I gave you that scripture, and that is NOT when he comes like a thief in the night!
Thessalonians 1:10 "...and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead - Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
Revelation 3:10 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth"
The Bible DOES NOT LIE. Jesus does not lie when he says he will come like a thief in the night. He will be no thief if he comes at the last trumpet!
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe The Great Tribulation is not the wrath of God, as I said above. It is the reign of Anti-Christ. God wrath begins at the bowl judgments (Rev. 16:1), which ironically, follow right after the last trumpet.
By the way, the first three chapters of Revelation are letters written to the seven churches of Asia minor. They were suffering immense persecution under the Roman emperor Domitian. They are not a part of the end times prophecy. Rev. 4 starts out, "After these things..."
The 2nd coming is at that trumpet and again, it will be no surprise, he will come with thousands of his saints. Don't say it is false doctrine, it is CLEARLY written in the Bible.
At his 2nd* coming it clearly says he comes with the holy ones and i will always stand by that.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 "May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones."
Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."
The judgment is for those who have not accepted Christ, all the believers and those who died for Jesus will reign with him, they will not be asleep during that 1000 years. After the 1000 years Satan is cast into the bottomless pit, and then the dead are raised and judged. All of the saints and ALL of those who believed that Christ died on the cross and repented WILL REIGN WITH CHRIST FOR THAT 1000 years. The first resurrection is for those who didn't accept the mark of the beast during the trib!
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe EXACTLY! You just said it. The first resurrection is for those who didn't accept the mark of the beast during the trib. So, if the dead in Christ rise prior to those who are alive (1 Thes. 4:16-17), we can then conclude that the rapture cannot occur until at least after the first resurrection. Which we now see is after the trib (Rev. 20:4). Just as Mat. 24:29-31 clearly explains.
@TheNeedForRepentance How does that conclude there is not a rapture? The dead in Christ will rise and those who are still alive will be caught up in the clouds? The dead in Christ are those who lived throughout history and died believing Christ, those who are still alive are people left behind who did not accept the mark of the beast and they will reign with Christ for that 1000 years. You do not know when he returns! He clearly said that! That means he comes before the last trumpet!
Imagine all the Christians who flee into the wilderness and do not accept the mark if there is no rapture. They will be thinking, Didn't he say he will come like a thief in the night? When you do not expect him? One will be taken and the other left? Didn't he say that? Jesus does not lie about when he comes and how fast it will be at his coming. At his coming it clearly says he comes with the holy ones and i will always stand by that.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe I do imagine that. It will be all of these "Christians" holding to this false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture. The Bible also says many will fall away at that time. SpiderTraceur summed that up pretty nice. You can hold on to your religious doctrine all you want. That's your problem. You've been lied to friend. The easiest way to discern a false teacher is they'll tell you exactly what your flesh wants to hear. Watch my persecution video and go preach a pre-trib rapture to them.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe No, He said we do not know the day or hour. And I agree. I do not know the day or hour. I identify His return with the last trumpet. However, I do not know what day or hour the trumpet will blow. I have no problem with that scripture.
If the dead in Christ rise, that means a resurrection. If it's a resurrection, it cannot come before the first resurrection in Rev. 20:4. And if they rise ahead of those alive, the rapture cannot come before the first resurrection. Open your eyes man.
Buddy, if the dead in Christ rise PRIOR to those who are alive meeting the Lord in the clouds (1 Thes. 4: 16-17), then it's impossible for the rapture to occur PRIOR to the events of Rev. 20:4-5 because it specifically calls it, "the first resurrection." To say otherwise is a straight heresy.
This is his second coming, he does not come like a thief in the night at his second coming, it's gonna be glorious and in your face, not like a thief.
Wow,There have been many who made valid points.What would happen if evryone had to go thru hell on earth.I mean what would happen to their faith? All new versions say that the mark will be on their hand or on theirforehead.(Not IN)Grab a KJV and compare verses. this as an example of deception.Has anyone considered that the Two witnesses areThe old and new testaments?The souls under the altar are the breath of life returned to God.Their bodies are sleeping. I agree with youas far as no pretrib
@Noffy1111 That still doesn't explain the verses I mentioned, number one. Secondly, the wrath of God came upon the earth during the days of Noah. Did he rapture Noah? No, he simply provided a way for judgment to pass over them. The wrath of God came upon the Egyptians. Did he rapture the Hebrews? No. He provided a way for judgment to pass over them. The wrath of the Lamb in Rev. 6:16 doesn't say anything about a pre-trib rapture. Nothing you've quoted says anything about a pre-trib rapture.
@Noffy1111 Ugh.... You just won't give up will you? Of course Christ starts His millennial reign at the 1000 year reign.... that's what I said. It's Christ reigning, not God the Father. So when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, it's obviously after His millennial reign. That is the third point Paul referenced in 1 Cor. 15:24-25. How you can't see that is mind-boggling. The reign of Anti-Christ is not the wrath of God, rather making war with the saints and overcoming them (Rev. 13:7).
@Noffy1111 If the church is in heaven prior to Rev. 6:1, as you say, please explain to me Rev. 6:9-11, Rev. 12:17, and Rev. 13:7. As far as your last point of contention, regarding rewards and needing a body... how would you explain Moses' appearance in glory at the transfiguration (Luke 9:31)? He was never raptured...
@Noffy1111 1. Seriously man, how blind are you? Look at the very text you used to support your argument (1 Cor. 15:20-25). This is the crux of your argument; the 3 points of harvest:
1. Christ; the first fruits (verse 20)
2. Those who are Christs at His coming; rapture (verse23)
3. Then the end when He hands over the kingdom to the Father (verse 24)
He doesn't hand over the kingdom until AFTER the millennial reign. "For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet (verse 25)."
@Noffy1111 2.There's no second rapture mentioned there (1 Cor. 15:20-25). There's no second rapture mentioned in Matthew 24 or Mark 13. The only things even resembling a rapture and Christ's return in those chapters do not occur until after the tribulation. You have absolutely no basis for your argument. With the most godly men throughout history being persecuted, suffering, and martyred for Christ, why on earth do you think you ought to get a free ride?
1. 1 Cor. 15:20-23 - Christ (first fruits) has already been raised. After that, those who are Christ's at His coming... which we see is in Mat. 24:30 (after the trib).
2. 1 Thes. 4:13-18 - Simply explains the dead in Christ will rise ahead of those who are alive. This all happens at the rapture, or return of Christ (Mat. 24:30)
3. 1 Cor. 15:50-55 - Same thing. Dead in Christ rise prior to those still alive. All happens at the last trumpet. Went over that in the video.
@Noffy1111 I've learned all I need to. Jesus said He would come after the tribulation (Mat. 24:29-31), and you disagree (?). You can't seem to support anything you say with scripture huh? Keep your useless speculations to yourself, I'm not interested. If you're going to make a point, then make it, but you better use scripture. I won't have you flood this video with your wild imaginings.
As far as the harvest... you say Christ comes at the first part? That's funny because He returns in Mat. 24:30, which follows Mat. 24:29 which says "AFTER THE TRIBULATION." You can try and rationalize and speculate all you want, I'm going to listen to Jesus. Do me a favor and watch the persecution video on my channel, and then go preach a pre-trib rapture to them. Is the thought of suffering for Christ so terrible to you?
@Noffy1111 A clue? Come on buddy. You're speculating when Jesus said it plainly:
"But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds... and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect..." - Mat. 24:29-31
1. Concerning the "satanic music"... would you care to give me a Biblical basis for that statement?
2. Do you even have anything to say regarding the topic of this video? I see you're a pre-trib supporter; so why don't you try supporting it? Simply labeling me a false teacher doesn't do much to defend your position...
Jesus does NOT Set foot on Earth during the rapture.... The "saints" will be caught up into the air---he'll remain in the "heavens,".....The people will meet the Lord in the air----Jesus will NOT TOUCH foot on the Earth Until the final END...in Jerusalem.
As to not speculate...the bible is clear about only 2 comings of Jesus. In other words, the bible does not teach a 3rd coming nor a 1 1/2 coming nor phases of a "secret" coming. Just two comings of our Lord. In plain english, the bible says that He (Jesus) will be coming immediately AFTER the trib. It does not say immediately BEFORE. In Acts it says...this SAME JESUS will come in like manner. How did he go? Was it some secret leaving?
@arovir Part 1: Haha, I was waiting for someone to bring that up! I agree that neither I, nor anyone else, can say with any certainty what the mark will look like. It's merely speculation on my part (which is why I added the annotation). I will say this though; I do believe the anti-Christ will be Jewish. Now I'm not dogmatic about it, but to me it makes perfect sense. They're very familiar with Scripture, specifically, Old Testament Messianic prophesies.
Part 2: However, they rejected the true Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ. So what does that mean? They're still waiting for their messiah. And the interesting thing about the Star of David is that once you break it down and analyze it, you find that it both numerically and geometrically produces several 666 combinations. As I said earlier, none of this proves anything, it's just my opinion. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate your words. Take care brother and God bless.
Jesus said..pray that you would be accounted worthy to ESCAPE these things. In Revelation it says and I saw a multitude which not man could number from every tongue tribe and nation standing before the throne of God...The came OUT of the great tribulation. We have NOT been called unto wrath!!!! We are to COMFORT one another with these words. Its not dangerous its the truth!!!
@cshook123 In order to come out of the Great Tribulation, you would need to be in the Great Tribulation. Keep in mind, Rev. 7:14 does not say how they came out of the tribulation. In simply backtracking through Revelation though, we find that explanation clearly in Rev. 6: 9-11. The multitude was there because they maintained their testimony of Christ, and were killed for it. Verse 11 also makes it clear that number would still increase. I pray you can see this brother.
@TheNeedForRepentance You have to be the Church of Philadelphia.....Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Did God keep the 3 Hebrew children from the fiery furnace? The fire only burned off the bonds. Please consider the timing of the rapture with the scripture I will post next.
@cshook123 Have you ever heard of the Voice of the Martyrs? Please go the the middle of black Africa and tell the Christians whom are being slaughtered for their faith in our Lord by the muslims that "we are NOT called unto wrath. Tell the 6 million Jews who were brutally slaughtered, we are NOT called unto wrath. cshook123, you are jerking scripture out of context to support your own pre-trib opinion. If you read 1 Thess 5:9 in its entirety, you will see that Paul is clearly talking....
@cshook123 2/2 ....is clearly talking about eternal things not temporary things. The 7 yr trib is temporary. The word wrath is mentioned 47 times in the new testiment. In the Greek it means a reaching forth of violent anger, passion, indignation. This is God's fury kindled up in his face. Please don't subsitute the word wrath for the 7 yr tribulation. Again, the 7 yr trib is partly man's wrath, then religous/political system, then God's wrath at the end of the 7 yrs.
But what about Noah and his family escaping the flood, or the people who escaped the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra, or Enoch who was actually taken by God to heaven before the flood? Wouldn't you say those are examples of God taking out His people before he unleashes a major judgement? In my opinion 1 Thessalonians 5:9 kind of sums that up briefly. What do you think about those kinds of examples?
@Klaheto88 I absolutely agree with you. We are not destined for God's wrath. We are, on the other hand, promised persecution (2 Tim 3:2). The Great Tribulation is not the wrath of God, rather the reign of Anti-Christ. And during his reign, he will make war with the saints and overcome them (Rev. 13:7). God's wrath does not begin until the bowl judgments, which follow immediately after the last trumpet, which is when we are raptured (1 Cor. 15:52).
@TheNeedForRepentance I guess all i can do is respectfully disagree. I've never seen the seven year tribulation as being the wrath of the anti-christ and God. I've always seen the entire seven years as God's wrath and the anti-christ as just a part of His plans. Therefore it makes perfect sense to me that God would remove us before He unleashes His wrath on earth.
@Klaheto88 I'm not trying to mean or anything here, but how you picture the tribulation doesn't matter. What does scripture teach? Rev. 16:1 says specifically the bowls are the wrath of God. In Rev. 14:14-19, the harvest of the earth is reaped (Christians), and the clusters (non-Christians) are thrown into the wine press of the wrath of God. This is after the last trumpet (Rev. 11:15), and before the bowl judgments/wrath of God (Rev. 16:1). I pray you can see this.
@Klaheto88 How can the great tribulation be God's wrath? That is what so many pre trib's think now a days. It's called the great tribulation not the great wrath of God. Nowhere else in the bible does God use the devil to execute his wrath, He just does it Himself. The great tribulation is just that, tribulation, and the bible says that we as believers are appointed to trials and tribulation. Don't expect a free ride as a believer when so many others (Jesus included) have had to suffer.
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
@TheNeedForRepentance This is talking about when the dead are raised after the trumpets. This is not talking about the second coming of Jesus and the taken up of the church, they are already with Jesus.
Jude 14
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones Jude 14
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to
"To judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
@TheNeedForRepentance See he comes with thousands and thousands of his Holy ones! They are not going to suffer through the tribulation, remember Noah god always protects his own.
"May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones."
Again, another verse talking about those who are left behind during the tribulation, and he will come with all his holy ones.
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
He comes with his church at the end of the tribulation. It is not going to be a surprise when he comes with his church. During the tribulation people will see the Anti-Christ and angels in the air, and they will flee into the wilderness. They would expect the thief, and you do not know what time or hour nor trumpet nor wrath that he will come.
"First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth".
@TheNeedForRepentance So Jesus comes for his church but he does not touch Earth. The second coming is when he comes with all his holy ones, at the last trumpet and he touches down on Earth. The thousand years begin and Jesus Christ rules on Earth for 1000 years with his Holy People. Again, that lines up with scripture. After the 1000s years Satan is released from the bottomless pit and is devoured with fire and cast into the lake of fire. Then the dead are judged and the book of life is opened.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Once again the Holy people are the 12 tribes of Israel. The 2 Jewish tribes and the 10 lost tribes. The church is not Israel. The are not of the seed of Jacob. If you read Isaiah 14, it's about to be Jacob's turn to rule. Esau is ruling now and soon it will be JACOB'S turn. The 144,00 are not the church but the remnant of Jacob. The ywill rule with the LION OF JUDAH Christ Jesus the son of the MOST HIGH GOD.
Of course then he makes a new Heaven and New Earth. We will rule with him on this very Earth, not in heaven. He will make everything new, it says in revelation. Maybe he will make the same Earth he made at creation.
Anyone who wants further proof of the pre-trib rapture watch the videos on my channel. But stop preaching this false teaching, there is a rapture. If somehow some way Jesus doesn't come for his followers till after they have suffered through the tribulation and thrown into the great wine-press of gods wrath..... you better flee into the wilderness because you are in for a wild ride.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe You took a whole lot of time to make absolutely no point. Nothing you say here indicates when the rapture occurs. My position, on the other hand, does. "But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION..." (Mat. 24:29-31). Are there two raptures? Also, regarding these holy ones that come with the Lord; just because they're with the Lord, doesn't mean they were raptured. Perhaps they were already dead, killed, etc. I checked out your channel, but I didn't feel like listening to Pantera.
@TheNeedForRepentance Well thats to bad smartass, best band ever. He does come with his holy ones and it says in Thessalonians many times that Jesus will keep his believers from the coming wrath. He comes with his holy ones at the second coming. It makes no sense for him to come like a thief in the night at the last trumpet. There is a rapture but it is not called the rapture in the Bible. The dead are not raised to AFTER he comes at his second coming his his church for 1000 years.
The dead are not raised until AFTER he comes at his second coming with his church for 1000 years.*
It says many times in the Bible that he will come for his church like a thief in the night. Don't tell me it doesn't say that you are ignoring ALLOT of scripture. He comes at the rapture, and then at the second coming with his church, and reigns on Earth with them for 1000 years, I KNOW THE BIBLE, SIR.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe True. It does say that. But the Bible also says, "But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief (1 Thes. 5:4)." Now what do you do with it?
And no it says, "the REST OF THE DEAD did not come to life until the thousand years were completed (Rev. 20:5)." Actually, read Rev. 20:4 while you're at it. And lay off the cussing or you will be removed. You ought to be studying a little less rapture and a little more salvation.
@TheNeedForRepentance You're the one teaching that there is no rapture when there clearly is. I called you a smartass because you did not want to watch the video that proves the rapture, because there is a pantera song on my channel lol.
Revelation 20:4-6 are people who were left behind when Jesus "Came like a thief in the night" for his church. They did not receive the mark and will reign with Christ and the raptured believers for that 1000 years.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe You're wrong. I do teach a rapture. I simply disagree with you as to when it occurs. Now if Jesus came like a thief in the night, before this instance in Revelation 20:4, then the Bible contradicts itself in Rev. 20:5 because it calls it "the first resurrection." Even the famous rapture text of 1 Thes. 4:16-17 places the dead rising ahead of those alive. Lucky for everyone, you're wrong. The first resurrection is in Rev. 20:4 The Bible does not contradict itself.
@TheNeedForRepentance I know about the first resurrection. The Bible does not contradict itself at all, those who are raptured are ALREADY with Christ. I have given you scripture with proof that Jesus comes with his church at his second coming. Those who are in the first resurrection are those who are left behind at the rapture when Jesus comes "Like a thief in the night, and an hour YOU DO NOT EXPECT HIM." That means you don't know what time he comes at FIRST, but you do know about the trumpet.
@TheNeedForRepentance That means that the trumpet is the SECOND COMING, and when Jesus comes with his church. It will be no surprise and you will not know when he comes at first, that is the "Rapture", The first resurrection are those who died for Christ during the tribulation, they will reign with Christ and obviously his holy ones.
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones (saints KJV) to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."f.
Legalism plain and simple. That is what this dude is preaching. Luke 21:36 ~ "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
naiharncliff 4 days ago
@mrchristlovesu2
you may know this already or it may have already been said, i haven't been able to read all comments yet but from what I remember the term rapture comes from the latin term rapturus(probs spelt it wrong) which means caught up hence why people use the term rapture today.
i like calling it the gathering just as the bible does.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
The word rapture is not in the text. Also the term "pre, mid, and post" tribulation is not in the text either. It was set it up that way to cause division. In Revelation 22:18, it says, "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."
MrChristlovesu2 1 month ago
@MrChristlovesu2 While that is true, it is a word which represents a belief based on Biblical text. It does not add or take anything away from the text. It simply sums up an event found within a text like 1 Thes. 4:16-18. If I were to take the Catholic position of, "there is no rapture (1 Thes. 4:16-18)," then I would be taking away from the text. Or if I were to say there are two raptures (1 Thes. 4:16-18), then I would be adding to the text.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 month ago
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MrChristlovesu2 1 month ago
@TheNeedForRepentance I just call it as it says in the bible which is the word "resurrection." I no longer use the word rapture because I know that the word rapture is not in the text. We must fear God & humble ourselves on this issue. There is a lot of division going on when it comes to the word of God & most of them so called Christians who believe in these myths have different opinions when it comes to certain scriptures & verses.
Watch out for damnable heresy. It everywhere on Youtube.
MrChristlovesu2 1 month ago
@TheNeedForRepentance How can the pre-trib rapture be a dangerous doctrine? If you understand the doctrine of Christ and accept the Salvation that Jesus offers, you are a child of God no matter what happens. I personally think that it will not be crystal clear until either Christ comes in a rapture or we see the Anti-Christ performing the abomination of desolation. Either way I don't plan on taking any marks on my hand or forehead. The gospel is what's most important!
clockguy2 2 weeks ago
@clockguy2 You're right in that we can't know every little detail regarding the end-times, but I think we can get a well-rounded idea. You're also correct with the Gospel being most important. Personally, I find any false doctrine dangerous, including eternal security. I believe people can fall away from the faith, and when it comes to the end times, Jesus said quite plainly that "at that time, many will fall away (Mat. 24:9-11)." There's no test like being faced with death.
TheNeedForRepentance 6 days ago
It's called resurrection of the dead, not rapture. In (1 Corinthians 15:50), it says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. You must suffer unto death in order for your spirit to be raised up.
MrChristlovesu2 1 month ago
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MrChristlovesu2 1 month ago
It's not a LIE here's the scripture 1Thessalonians 4:16-18 speaks on the pre tribulation rapture the catch for being able to actually go with the lord jesus christ is you must be living a 'holy and acceptable life in the eyes of the lord' or then you'll have to be a martyr of the faith in order to get into heaven.This will take place BEFORE the first 3 1/2 year period of false peace once the second 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation period happens it will literally be HELL ON EARTH
Intangiblemobfigaz 1 month ago
@Intangiblemobfigaz Your text in 1 Thess. 4:16-18 only speaks of a rapture. There is nothing there indicating pre-trib. In fact, quite the opposite. It says the "dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive..." According to this, those who are alive will be taken up after those who are dead. The first resurrection does not take place until after the Great Tribulation. See Revelation 20:4-5.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 month ago
Amen brother. Great Video.
whollish 1 month ago
I am not associated with Harold Camping sir. The fact that YOU CANNOT HEAR THE VOICE OF GOD should be alarming to all who have visited your web site. One would then have to question who's voice you are listening to. People are welcome to visit my channel if they want to know the truth about the rapture. Your interpretation sir is so off base, I'm sorry for all who will be left behind for believing your untruths. God bless you. This is finished.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas Ma'am I've had people tell me they hear Gods voice and He's told them they could kill someone. But Jesus says were to lay down our lives. I had another guy couple weeks ago tell me he hears Gods voice and he had a completely different rapture view than yourself. The issue I have with you is you say I should trust your authority? Do you think Paul was joking in his epistles writing you are not to have authority over a man? Should I take your words over a chosen apostle of Christ?
droptozro 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
It sounds as though you believe in a pre-trib rapture? what verse would you say is your favorite that shows that teaching?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
One more thing. You don't have any authority over me, and you don't get to tell me I am out of order. Jesus does. Do you hear the voice of God? I do. If I was out of order He would tell me so. I get my instruction from him, not wannabees like you. You have a deep seeded self righteous pharisee spirit and you sir are the one who should repent.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
You are wrong! The saints are the church. The saints are no longer mentioned as I stated. There will be new converts during the tribulation. You got one thing right. Yes, we will see when we stand before God.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
The book of Daniel very cleary says that the 70 weeks are for Israel. The church has not been a part of the 69 weeks that have already passed. Why do you think the church all of a sudden will be a part of the 70th week?
monarkman1957 2 months ago
Not to sound too critical, but, do you think the music you play in the beginning of your video is pleasing to God? Sounds too much like demonic heavy metal to me. I pray that you see "the need for repentance" and lose the heavy music. Grace be with you.
monarkman1957 2 months ago
"Here is wisdom: Let him with the understanding number the multitude of the beast, for it is the multitude of a man, and his multitude come to fight in the name of Allah." Revelation 13:18.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 months ago
@ABAisSCIENCE I'd really like to know what translation you're reading from? I don't see that in any of my translations. Don't you think you're adding to the Word there a bit bud?
ecclesiastes118 2 months ago
@ecclesiastes118, I'm understanding that to calculate is to number when speaking of people who make up a governing body which is what all beasts (lion, leopard, & bear - Babylon, Greece & Medo-Persia) are. I'm also understanding the number upon locating them & identifying them is a multitude. I am also understanding that the whole Bible is Greek letters which could be converted into numbers but then all of Revelation would be rendered an absurdity.
Hence, I stare at Greek letters to read them.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 months ago
Not to argue but, there are 2 raptures. The gathering of the elect is the second rapture. There is no martydom of the saints. They have a choice to be or not be beheaded, they were left behind. Yes...from the first rapture.People will only be "murdered" if they refuse the mark of the beast. Many won't. Fall away. Many will be mad at God because they didn't make the first rapture. Doesn't matter to them if they did not kept themselves holy or keep his commandments, like he tells us to do.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas I like how you said, "not to argue but..." and then you made an argument. : )
I just have a few questions:
1. Two Raptures? I need a scriptural basis for that.
2. Elect are gathered in the 2nd rapture? Then who is gathered in the first?
3. No martyrdom of the saints? See Rev. 6:9-11, Rev. 20:4, etc. By the way, if they are beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus (Rev. 20:4), how is that not martyrdom of the saints? Any clarification would be appreciated.
TheNeedForRepentance 2 months ago
@TheNeedForRepentance 1. View videos on 2d rapture w/scriptures. Martydom: they were not left behind because of their testimony. They were left behind because they were not ready to go up in the rapture. Yes there are 2. We cannot descend with Him unless we are already with Him. The angel instruments the gathering of the elect. Jesus does not descend with a shout as He did in the 1st rapture. The only resurrections are for the just. All others go to hell. Those hell bound no ressurection.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
"Those hellbound no resurrection"
I would urge you to study Scripture more, your visions do not trump those of the apostles and their writings aligning. You also as a woman(if your channel is correct) have no place teaching other men you should watch what you're saying to others. I say this lovingly, it's not that you don't have the ability--it's about authority.
There is a resurrection of those hell bound--read Revelation 20:11-15, this is at the end of the 1000 years
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro It is written: my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Jesus freed women from your type of thinking. Many great women in the bible. I have authority, God gave it to me. I hear His Voice. Not droptozro or needforrepentance. If you believe you guys are the answer people are in deep trouble. God showed me my vision for a reason. Just like He showed John. I believe Him-not you. I say this with love brother, I know what I am saying to be true.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas ...continued. Even Jesus and the others taught this, do you not read?
1 Cor 15:20-28 shows Jesus will reign on Earth, unbelievers will have to be put in check by Him. We will rise with Him at His return. Rev 20:4-6 shows the first resurrection(Christians) and the rest won't be resurrected til the end of the 1000 years just as the verse says. Hades is destroyed because all in it will be resurrected, it will no longer be needed-logical as the text claims.
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro You keep reading; because you have no understanding. Pray for wisdom. Wisdom is a good thing. Do I read? Of course I do. I also "understand" what I read. How come you don't? It appears that way. The church is not mentioned after ch. 4. The Holy Spirit restrains the antichrist right now. He can't do anything until the Holy Spirit is gone. You are claiming the Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation. This is not possible. The bride will be gone.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
"The church is not mentioned after ch. 4"
Wrong.
Rev 12:13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
Continued in next comment, it will not fit.
droptozro 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas ...17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
These are Christians, this is the church. That part in Revelation 1-4 is only for THOSE churches(and our edification/warning)--discern what John was commanded
Rev 1:19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.
This is the order.
droptozro 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
Ma'am, you are deceived. "freed me from your type of thinking... I have authority"
No you do not, you're out of order and you will answer for it. It shows in your false teaching.
The bride will be on earth and in Hades(Paradise)... what you profess is spiritual fornication, claiming we will live with Christ before the wedding which does not occur until His return/descent on Mt. Olive(Rev 21)--the bride is New Jerusalem(and her people).
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro You are wacked out! Hades is not paradise. I have authority God has given to me. You believe what you want. I am not out of order you are. You are full of pride and have a haughty spirit. You are not walking in the spirit one single bit. I will not argue with you. I surely don't know why you believe you will weather the storm of the tribulation sir. You are obviously not that strong spiritually. You are the one deceived. You won't make it to the Second Coming. I prophesy this.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
"You are wacked out! Hades is not paradise"
Again contradicting the Scriptures, the upper portion is Paradise as we see from Abraham and the rich man in torment(it's not a parable, it's a story with a real name, real occurrence).
Read Luke 23:43... Jesus told the man he would be in paradise with Him.
Then read Acts 2:22-32... see the real prophet David foretell that Jesus would not be left in Hades, but raised up.
So do you claim Jesus lied? I do not dare.
droptozro 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
It's a good thing you're a false prophet so far that I can tell, otherwise I might actually be concerned with you... it doesn't surprise me with those such as Harold Camping and the like around... it's clear the unclean spirits are up to no good.
There's a lot of people claiming the voice of God, that's great---I support that, but not those that clearly contradict the Scriptures such as yourself. This was a minor issue and you made it a salvation one. I'm proud?..God bless
droptozro 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
Christ gathers her to us, when He sends His angels out so we will descend with Him and be glorified with Him.(Mark 13:27, Col 3:4).
The real issue is, you don't know what we're inheriting, and you're negating the point of the resurrection.
Christians will reign on EARTH. (Matt 5:5, Rev 21).
You do not discern these things and I gather it's because you're out of order. You are not in submission to the proper order, thus your fruit is bad teaching.
Repent I beg you.
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro You are a charlatain.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
Why would they not be ready to go up in the rapture? What are the requirements to be raptured?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@MamasitaDeVegas
I would urge you to study Galatians... you really don't understand "what" happens when Christ returns or "what" you will be inheriting. There's not two raptures, there's one--a gathering of the elect at His return on the Mount of Olives, we will descend with Him and reign ... on EARTH. A renewed earth. No one is flying up into the actual heaven where the Father dwells, He is coming to us. Study Revelation a bit more please. There are two resurrections, one of just/unjust
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro I understand just fine. 2 raptures.Yes we are flying up. See videos on 2d raptures and My vision of the rapture, when the Lord took me up.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
@droptozro 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
filoIII 2 months ago
@filoIII
Yes... ..and so? Does this prove your rapture you believe? Or do you just vacuum this out? See, you don't understand this text because you don't understand the prophets or Revelation and how they link. You are being gathered at Christ's descent to be glorified with Him at the return on Mount Olive. You will reign on EARTH. You will inherit the land, Galatians easily explains the Jewish misunderstanding of Abraham's promise--the land, the New Jerusalem. Rev 21. God bless
droptozro 2 months ago
Perhaps Jesus doesn't come to earth when the dead and alive are called up. Perhaps we meet Him in the air and it isn't technically His second coming. idk.
filoIII 3 months ago
@filoIII
try "answersinrevelation" on google... give it a listen, verse by verse, good teaching. God bless
droptozro 3 months ago
@filoIII According to my vision, Jesus will be waiting for us outside the planet in the 2d realm. He doesn't come down to the earth. Being "caught up" means we go up to Him. He second coming later after the 2d rapture when the angels gather up the elect. Then the last 7 viles are released on mankind before the second coming.
MamasitaDeVegas 2 months ago
the biggest eye opening chapter for me is John 6. We know the dead in Christ will rise FIRST before we are taken up. So when does Christ raise the dead? "That I shall not loose none of all that He has given me, but raise him up on THE LAST DAY. everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY. No one can come to me unless the Father draws him and will raise him up at the LAST DAY." He says it a 4th time as well in verse 54
mvmof2 3 months ago
@mvmof2 Good point! How many "last days" are there anyway? Of course, you'll probably get one of those day-age people who will say.. "well, one day is like a thousand years... so you know..." Some people will argue anything to hold on to their beliefs. That's okay because those with ears to hear know better. Thanks for your comment.
TheNeedForRepentance 3 months ago
@TheNeedForRepentance hmm perhaps they would throw that up...BUT they seem to make the 7 YEARS of trib exactly 7 YEARS OUR TIME. So how can they get it both ways. A day is God's 1,000, but the 7 YEARS of trib would be in our time of 7 years. Can't have it both ways in my opinion.
mvmof2 3 months ago
@mvmof2 Well, I think "a day to the Lord is like a thousand years" simply implies that time is irrelevant to an infinite God. Keeping it within context, Peter is addressing the claims of some about the "slowness" of our Lord's return. I do not feel we should use this as a basis to interpret "days" in the Bible as "a thousand years." If we did, it would mean that Jesus is not scheduled to rise again for another thousand years, which subsequently, would present quite a few problems.
TheNeedForRepentance 3 months ago
@mvmof2 Haha... I don't know why, but for some reason I completely misread your comment. I thought you were arguing a day-age position. My mistake. Your absolutely right. They can't have it both ways, yet unfortunately, that's never stopped people before. Thanks again.
TheNeedForRepentance 3 months ago
Thank you for this video...passing forward.
xXxExtremeDaysIVxXx 3 months ago
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Luke 21:36
"Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 6 months ago
We should Thank God Always that he is as the word says, hold them into darkness and unto the day of their judgement so his word to be fulfilled and those who wanted "Barabbas" are geting him now with this time, strange doctrines of men. Let God use that heresy philosophy to revelal the ones we need to be aware of. and let him show us them by open example. They have a death grip on a lie, so be it! God has his ways of Plainly separating the tares and the wheat before it is Eternal, doesn't he?
ashqelonsunset 7 months ago
There are plenty of metaphor expressions of the time Yeshua appears. King Davis Ps 50:1-3 Ps 68:1-3 and Isaiah64:1-4 and others say at his appearence the planet will incinerate. Matthew 3 tells us the Angels are the one whom do any gathering yet are in his hand AKA with him. So obviously the end is then. Matt 13 says the only harvest is plainly the end of the world. 2 Thess 1:8-9 2:8-9 show it also. Sin will never enter heaven again, so God is allowing the PTR cult to show us who loves a Lie.
ashqelonsunset 7 months ago
@TheKJVberean The church has not replaced the 12 tribes of Jacob sealed in Revelation 7. The remnant of Israel
jatamode 9 months ago
Re:19:13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Re:19:14: And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
who are these in fine line, white and clean upon white horses coming with the Lord? Are they not the saints mentioned in Jude 1:14
The rapture my friends is a means to escape what the Lord calls the wrath of God. I hope these scriptures have comforted you all. I Thess. 4:18
TheGrace4all 9 months ago
Heb:2:3: How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
If I Lord is coming with the saints Jude:1:14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Saints that the Lord is coming with had to have been with him already for them to come with him. Continued:
TheGrace4all 9 months ago
Lu:21:34: And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Lu:21:35: For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Lu:21:36: Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Continued:
TheGrace4all 9 months ago
@TheNeedForRepentance Search your inbox for the message in vain.
XforeverlongingX 10 months ago
Bravo! Excellent introductory explanation. I am concerned that Christians who are expecting to go through life without any affliction will give up their faith when it all falls apart. I have heard these kind of Christians for years do nothing and care nothing about the evils and corruption being done around us even now. They usually just say "don't worry about it, God is in control" fully expecting a pre-trib rapture so they can care about NOTHING in the mean time.
RobertMOdell 11 months ago
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This is right on... pretibulation rapture cannot be substantiated in scripture. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of a pretrib (hooray... no suffering). Unfortunately, no case can be made for a pretrib without twisting all sorts of scripture.
urbansamurai79 11 months ago
@TheKJVberean Thanks for patiently ministering to this brother. Bear with him if you can and help him see his need for repentance (pun intended but without sarcasm). He needs to see that repentance is like peeling off layers and our hearts need to respond to God Himself and that the Word should be life to us more than doctrine and certainly not a hammer with which to hit our brethren.
BludBaut 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance Eminence has long been considered an orthodox Christian teaching. To preach a Rapture after Tribulation starts means Jesus lied when He said, "Watch!" If the Tribulation starts first, who needs to watch... and why? You're not meditating on God's Word enough, brother.
BludBaut 1 year ago
@BludBaut Let me get this right. Jesus says, "Watch!" And you come up with a pre-tribulation rapture? That's your support? You've got to be kidding.
You can tell me I'm not meditating on God's Word all you want. I could just as easily say the same to you. I would love to believe in a pre-trib, but I have no reason to. It's a little too tickling to the ears; a perfect fit for the most lukewarm, lifeless, powerless, compromised church that ever existed.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
4. Many (rightly so, I believe) see God's calling John into heaven to be a picture of the Raptures just as Enoch is. The fact that the Church ceases to be discussed supports that position.
BludBaut 1 year ago
@BludBaut God called John into heaven simply to receive a vision. To call that a rapture is absurd. John lived almost 2000 years ago. If he was raptured, we missed it. The difference between John and Enoch, is that Enoch never came back down. John did, just as Paul did. That's a false analogy.
The church is mentioned, just not the word "church." God's people are referred to as the "saints," which is, holy ones. They ARE the church.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance I love watching christians and the religious fight based on their own claims to "evidence".
XforeverlongingX 10 months ago
@TheKJVberean
4. Rev. 4:1 is simply God calling John into heaven to receive a vision. That is not a rapture. Paul was also called up to Paradise and given a revelation in 2 Cor. 12:2-7. That obviously wasn't the rapture.
5. 1 Thes. 4:16-17 supports my position. It says, "the dead will rise first, THEN we who are alive..." The first resurrection does not occur until after the Great Tribulation (Rev. 20:4-5). If the rapture comes after the resurrection, then it also comes after the tribulation.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheKJVberean
3. Your supporting scripture (Mat. 24:36-42) starts out, "But of that day and hour, no one knows..." What day? The word "that" is a pronoun, which means it's a substitution for something that was previously discussed. Could it be that day, "when the sun is darkened... and sign of the Son of Man... and the angels gather together the elect..." You know, the one that happens AFTER THE TRIBULATION, which Jesus just previously spoke of in Mat. 24:29-31? Keep it in context buddy.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheKJVberean
1. I didn't address the parable of the ten virgins because it doesn't support any rapture time-line. There's no point of reference to where this event occurs along end-time events. It supports a rapture, yes. But not when.
2. Your reference to Luke 21:34-36 I did address. "Escaping these things" is escaping the wrath of God. But as I already said, God's wrath is not the Great Tribulation. Were all the martyrs of Christ victims of God's wrath? Come on man...
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance Excuse me for interjecting here but you're not thinking very broadly. The fact that there are martyrs for Christ during the Great Tribulation (God's Wrath on the world for unbelief) simply testifies that evil men will murder Believers; it doesn't mean that God Wrath is what kills them. You need *consider* what you hear.
The parable of the ten virgins is relevant even though it doesn't address a timeline. Again, consider, i.e., meditate on God's Word.
BludBaut 1 year ago
@BludBaut So there are martyrs for Christ during the Great Tribulation? Isn't the church supposed to be raptured before then? By the way, God's wrath begins at the bowl judgments (Rev. 16:1). Which ironically enough, follows after the last trumpet, which is when we are raptured (1 Cor. 15:52).
I don't know why you brought up the ten virgins. I said it supports a rapture, not a timeline for the rapture, which is what you just said. Read a little more carefully.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheKJVberean
"But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days... and the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky... and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect..."
- Matthew 24:29-31
Why didn't Jesus say "BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?"
As I said above, the tribulation is not the wrath of God.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance We know in part and we prophesy in part (those who prophesy -- evidently you don't). No one knows it all. We're all still learning. We know what the Lord shows us and we think we know what we think the Lord shows us. We think wrongly when we lean to our own understanding (which is what you're doing on this doctrine) and pretend "the Lord showed me in His Word." The Lord's voice is something you should know (Jn 10:27) and not be pretentious, presumptuous or arrogant.
BludBaut 1 year ago
@BludBaut Well, what you think the Lord is showing you is wrong. I'm not pretending anything. Jesus made it crystal clear in Matthew 24:29-31. Funny how He forgot to mention this pre-trib rapture. The adjectives you used to describe me are not accurate. It's frustration from dealing with heresies. Now if you're going to respond, try and support your position (with scripture). I won't have you flooding this page with theories you can't support.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
I appreciate your concern for our persecuted brothers and sisters and for posting the video about them, but you're misled about the Rapture. I'm been a believer longer than you've been alive and there was a time before you were born when the Lord was teaching the Church about the Rapture and He taught me. Your grasp of history is incorrect also. Space does not permit teaching this here but if you know the voice of the Savior, then you should pray much and seek the Lord. This doctrine is not bad.
BludBaut 1 year ago
@BludBaut A few things here buddy:
A. How long you've been a believer is irrelevant. Honestly, that sounds like something a Pharisee would say.
B. You telling me I'm misled is going to help me much. You need to show me.
C. I also don't care whose voice it is you're hearing. John Crowder also believes he's hearing from God. The voice of the Spirit is not going to contradict the written Word. That's why we have it.
If you're concerned about space, by all means, send me a personal message.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance
A. So you've haven't found that you learn more as you grow older, huh?
B. You're being shown and not listening or meditating on what you're being shown.
C. The Spirit doesn't contradict the written Word. You don't understand the written Word.
D. You're not listening to one who is telling you correctly. Why should I want to be ignored as you're ignoring the Word of God.
You've been taught wrongly and you think a PTR is "escapism." That's spiritual pride not faithfulness.
BludBaut 1 year ago
@BludBaut
A. No. I found that I learn more as God reveals it to me.
B. You haven't shown me anything, nor refuted any point I made.
C. More more personal attacks on me.
D. Ignoring the Word of God? Did you notice all those scriptures I posted? You cited one. And it's one that's not even related to the rapture topic.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
In Greek debate, all questions are answered negatively. "When Jesus returns will he find faith?" NO. Want the clearest description of rapture?
Rev 11:8-12 "dead bodies (2 witnesses - Jews & Christians) shall lie in (Jerusalem) peoples & kindreds & tongues & nations shall see dead bodies 3 1/2 days & not permit burial. Alive will rejoice over them, party, send gifts, because the 2 witnesses tormented them (by living 4 God). After 3 1/2 days spirit of life from God entered them. Come up here."
ABAisSCIENCE 1 year ago
Anyways we have argued for long enough. Just a debate bro rapture or no rapture I would get my head blown off before I would accept the Mark of the Beast. I always use scripture to back up what I say...
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe I've had enough myself. Just keep in mind that we are promised persecution (2 Tim. 3:12). Christians all over the world are faced with that decision everyday. It just hasn't hit here yet. If you're that close with God to give your life for Him, then you got nothing to worry about either way. Take care man.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance Amen, the Bible says Christians are not of this world, if they were the world would love them, like your video says. When the Holy Spirit comes down it changes all graciously, the 6000 years are up and the Lord can come at any time... Technology for the second coming, internet preaching the word through the hole world. Greedy governments determined on this New World Order, and we know what it is, a war against Christians if anything. That's why they use this mark for it.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Ooh! You're familiar with the New World Order, and you hold to a young earth. I got to tell you, if it wasn't for your pre-trib position, we would share similar time lines. The Day of the Lord (Millennial Reign) would not only be the seventh day of rest, but also the Lord returning on the third day. Of course, we can't know for sure, but I think it's a worthy speculation. And you're absolutely right. It is no doubt a war against Christians (Rev. 13:7).
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
Matthew 24:42-44 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
You would expect him after all those wraths have come! It says he comes with his holy ones, so yes, there is a rapture!
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe What day or hour? Perhaps the one He just talked about 12 verse earlier. You know... that day AFTER THE TRIBULATION! For the last time, I believe in a rapture. It happens AFTER THE TRIBULATION!!!
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance Oh YEAAAA, after the tribulation when everyone is dead, he will come like a thief in the night and one will be taken the other left... Yep mhhmm im sure.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Who said everyone will be dead? "If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes... (Rev. 13:10)." Friend, He's going to come like a thief in the night to the world. The brethren, however, will not be overtaken like a thief (1 Thes. 5:4). You can't refute the truth I'm telling you, so you're going to mock it huh? Have it your way. Let me know how that works out for you...
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance I was showing you how ridiculous it is for Jesus to come like a thief in the night, one will be taken an the other left, after the Anti-Christ has killed every single Christian for not taking the mark. He will have NO one to come like a thief in the night for, and no one to take and no one to leave. He comes for his church and then he comes again at his second coming WITH HIS CHURCH. I gave you that scripture, and that is NOT when he comes like a thief in the night!
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
Thessalonians 1:10 "...and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead - Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
Revelation 3:10 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth"
The Bible DOES NOT LIE. Jesus does not lie when he says he will come like a thief in the night. He will be no thief if he comes at the last trumpet!
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe The Great Tribulation is not the wrath of God, as I said above. It is the reign of Anti-Christ. God wrath begins at the bowl judgments (Rev. 16:1), which ironically, follow right after the last trumpet.
By the way, the first three chapters of Revelation are letters written to the seven churches of Asia minor. They were suffering immense persecution under the Roman emperor Domitian. They are not a part of the end times prophecy. Rev. 4 starts out, "After these things..."
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
The 2nd coming is at that trumpet and again, it will be no surprise, he will come with thousands of his saints. Don't say it is false doctrine, it is CLEARLY written in the Bible.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
At his 2nd* coming it clearly says he comes with the holy ones and i will always stand by that.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 "May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones."
Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
The judgment is for those who have not accepted Christ, all the believers and those who died for Jesus will reign with him, they will not be asleep during that 1000 years. After the 1000 years Satan is cast into the bottomless pit, and then the dead are raised and judged. All of the saints and ALL of those who believed that Christ died on the cross and repented WILL REIGN WITH CHRIST FOR THAT 1000 years. The first resurrection is for those who didn't accept the mark of the beast during the trib!
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe EXACTLY! You just said it. The first resurrection is for those who didn't accept the mark of the beast during the trib. So, if the dead in Christ rise prior to those who are alive (1 Thes. 4:16-17), we can then conclude that the rapture cannot occur until at least after the first resurrection. Which we now see is after the trib (Rev. 20:4). Just as Mat. 24:29-31 clearly explains.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance How does that conclude there is not a rapture? The dead in Christ will rise and those who are still alive will be caught up in the clouds? The dead in Christ are those who lived throughout history and died believing Christ, those who are still alive are people left behind who did not accept the mark of the beast and they will reign with Christ for that 1000 years. You do not know when he returns! He clearly said that! That means he comes before the last trumpet!
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
Imagine all the Christians who flee into the wilderness and do not accept the mark if there is no rapture. They will be thinking, Didn't he say he will come like a thief in the night? When you do not expect him? One will be taken and the other left? Didn't he say that? Jesus does not lie about when he comes and how fast it will be at his coming. At his coming it clearly says he comes with the holy ones and i will always stand by that.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe I do imagine that. It will be all of these "Christians" holding to this false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture. The Bible also says many will fall away at that time. SpiderTraceur summed that up pretty nice. You can hold on to your religious doctrine all you want. That's your problem. You've been lied to friend. The easiest way to discern a false teacher is they'll tell you exactly what your flesh wants to hear. Watch my persecution video and go preach a pre-trib rapture to them.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe No, He said we do not know the day or hour. And I agree. I do not know the day or hour. I identify His return with the last trumpet. However, I do not know what day or hour the trumpet will blow. I have no problem with that scripture.
If the dead in Christ rise, that means a resurrection. If it's a resurrection, it cannot come before the first resurrection in Rev. 20:4. And if they rise ahead of those alive, the rapture cannot come before the first resurrection. Open your eyes man.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
Buddy, if the dead in Christ rise PRIOR to those who are alive meeting the Lord in the clouds (1 Thes. 4: 16-17), then it's impossible for the rapture to occur PRIOR to the events of Rev. 20:4-5 because it specifically calls it, "the first resurrection." To say otherwise is a straight heresy.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
This is his second coming, he does not come like a thief in the night at his second coming, it's gonna be glorious and in your face, not like a thief.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
Wow,There have been many who made valid points.What would happen if evryone had to go thru hell on earth.I mean what would happen to their faith? All new versions say that the mark will be on their hand or on theirforehead.(Not IN)Grab a KJV and compare verses. this as an example of deception.Has anyone considered that the Two witnesses areThe old and new testaments?The souls under the altar are the breath of life returned to God.Their bodies are sleeping. I agree with youas far as no pretrib
dragonloses 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 That still doesn't explain the verses I mentioned, number one. Secondly, the wrath of God came upon the earth during the days of Noah. Did he rapture Noah? No, he simply provided a way for judgment to pass over them. The wrath of God came upon the Egyptians. Did he rapture the Hebrews? No. He provided a way for judgment to pass over them. The wrath of the Lamb in Rev. 6:16 doesn't say anything about a pre-trib rapture. Nothing you've quoted says anything about a pre-trib rapture.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 Ugh.... You just won't give up will you? Of course Christ starts His millennial reign at the 1000 year reign.... that's what I said. It's Christ reigning, not God the Father. So when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, it's obviously after His millennial reign. That is the third point Paul referenced in 1 Cor. 15:24-25. How you can't see that is mind-boggling. The reign of Anti-Christ is not the wrath of God, rather making war with the saints and overcoming them (Rev. 13:7).
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 If the church is in heaven prior to Rev. 6:1, as you say, please explain to me Rev. 6:9-11, Rev. 12:17, and Rev. 13:7. As far as your last point of contention, regarding rewards and needing a body... how would you explain Moses' appearance in glory at the transfiguration (Luke 9:31)? He was never raptured...
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 1. Seriously man, how blind are you? Look at the very text you used to support your argument (1 Cor. 15:20-25). This is the crux of your argument; the 3 points of harvest:
1. Christ; the first fruits (verse 20)
2. Those who are Christs at His coming; rapture (verse23)
3. Then the end when He hands over the kingdom to the Father (verse 24)
He doesn't hand over the kingdom until AFTER the millennial reign. "For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet (verse 25)."
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 2.There's no second rapture mentioned there (1 Cor. 15:20-25). There's no second rapture mentioned in Matthew 24 or Mark 13. The only things even resembling a rapture and Christ's return in those chapters do not occur until after the tribulation. You have absolutely no basis for your argument. With the most godly men throughout history being persecuted, suffering, and martyred for Christ, why on earth do you think you ought to get a free ride?
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 Three separate times you say? I agree. But where does the resurrection at the end of the millennial reign fall in from your position?
Read 1 Cor. 15:20-25 again from my perspective.
Here's my view, very clearly:
1. Christ (first fruits), has already been raised.
2. Rapture at the end of the tribulation (Mat. 24: 29-31)
3. Resurrection at the end of the thousand years (Rev. 20:5)
You're breaking your own rules (4 times) with a second rapture that's never mentioned.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111
1. 1 Cor. 15:20-23 - Christ (first fruits) has already been raised. After that, those who are Christ's at His coming... which we see is in Mat. 24:30 (after the trib).
2. 1 Thes. 4:13-18 - Simply explains the dead in Christ will rise ahead of those who are alive. This all happens at the rapture, or return of Christ (Mat. 24:30)
3. 1 Cor. 15:50-55 - Same thing. Dead in Christ rise prior to those still alive. All happens at the last trumpet. Went over that in the video.
Bedtime...
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 I've learned all I need to. Jesus said He would come after the tribulation (Mat. 24:29-31), and you disagree (?). You can't seem to support anything you say with scripture huh? Keep your useless speculations to yourself, I'm not interested. If you're going to make a point, then make it, but you better use scripture. I won't have you flood this video with your wild imaginings.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 Couldn't find that Biblical basis huh?
As far as the harvest... you say Christ comes at the first part? That's funny because He returns in Mat. 24:30, which follows Mat. 24:29 which says "AFTER THE TRIBULATION." You can try and rationalize and speculate all you want, I'm going to listen to Jesus. Do me a favor and watch the persecution video on my channel, and then go preach a pre-trib rapture to them. Is the thought of suffering for Christ so terrible to you?
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 A clue? Come on buddy. You're speculating when Jesus said it plainly:
"But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds... and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect..." - Mat. 24:29-31
and you said:
"The worlds music is mimicked"
What verse was that again?
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 A couple things here:
1. Concerning the "satanic music"... would you care to give me a Biblical basis for that statement?
2. Do you even have anything to say regarding the topic of this video? I see you're a pre-trib supporter; so why don't you try supporting it? Simply labeling me a false teacher doesn't do much to defend your position...
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
Jesus does NOT Set foot on Earth during the rapture.... The "saints" will be caught up into the air---he'll remain in the "heavens,".....The people will meet the Lord in the air----Jesus will NOT TOUCH foot on the Earth Until the final END...in Jerusalem.
Rainy64 1 year ago
As to not speculate...the bible is clear about only 2 comings of Jesus. In other words, the bible does not teach a 3rd coming nor a 1 1/2 coming nor phases of a "secret" coming. Just two comings of our Lord. In plain english, the bible says that He (Jesus) will be coming immediately AFTER the trib. It does not say immediately BEFORE. In Acts it says...this SAME JESUS will come in like manner. How did he go? Was it some secret leaving?
cwaddle100 1 year ago
@cwaddle100 Christians see Him and go up---he doesn't come here- yet! Like Enoch and Elijah...translated--we will go like they did.....
Rainy64 1 year ago
Great video with many relevant points. The only thing I seriously doubt is your suggestion as to what the mark will look like!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir Part 1: Haha, I was waiting for someone to bring that up! I agree that neither I, nor anyone else, can say with any certainty what the mark will look like. It's merely speculation on my part (which is why I added the annotation). I will say this though; I do believe the anti-Christ will be Jewish. Now I'm not dogmatic about it, but to me it makes perfect sense. They're very familiar with Scripture, specifically, Old Testament Messianic prophesies.
Continued...
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
Part 2: However, they rejected the true Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ. So what does that mean? They're still waiting for their messiah. And the interesting thing about the Star of David is that once you break it down and analyze it, you find that it both numerically and geometrically produces several 666 combinations. As I said earlier, none of this proves anything, it's just my opinion. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate your words. Take care brother and God bless.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
Great video. I used to be baptist and believe in the pre tribulation rapture
2010JESUSLovesYou 1 year ago
Jesus said..pray that you would be accounted worthy to ESCAPE these things. In Revelation it says and I saw a multitude which not man could number from every tongue tribe and nation standing before the throne of God...The came OUT of the great tribulation. We have NOT been called unto wrath!!!! We are to COMFORT one another with these words. Its not dangerous its the truth!!!
cshook123 1 year ago
@cshook123 In order to come out of the Great Tribulation, you would need to be in the Great Tribulation. Keep in mind, Rev. 7:14 does not say how they came out of the tribulation. In simply backtracking through Revelation though, we find that explanation clearly in Rev. 6: 9-11. The multitude was there because they maintained their testimony of Christ, and were killed for it. Verse 11 also makes it clear that number would still increase. I pray you can see this brother.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance You have to be the Church of Philadelphia.....Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
cshook123 1 year ago
@cshook123
Did God keep the 3 Hebrew children from the fiery furnace? The fire only burned off the bonds. Please consider the timing of the rapture with the scripture I will post next.
144mcb 1 year ago
@cshook123 Have you ever heard of the Voice of the Martyrs? Please go the the middle of black Africa and tell the Christians whom are being slaughtered for their faith in our Lord by the muslims that "we are NOT called unto wrath. Tell the 6 million Jews who were brutally slaughtered, we are NOT called unto wrath. cshook123, you are jerking scripture out of context to support your own pre-trib opinion. If you read 1 Thess 5:9 in its entirety, you will see that Paul is clearly talking....
cwaddle100 1 year ago
@cshook123 2/2 ....is clearly talking about eternal things not temporary things. The 7 yr trib is temporary. The word wrath is mentioned 47 times in the new testiment. In the Greek it means a reaching forth of violent anger, passion, indignation. This is God's fury kindled up in his face. Please don't subsitute the word wrath for the 7 yr tribulation. Again, the 7 yr trib is partly man's wrath, then religous/political system, then God's wrath at the end of the 7 yrs.
cwaddle100 1 year ago
Amen brother. I left the church,the brick and morter church,largely for this reason.
lifeseeker51 1 year ago
from what i can tell the bible teaches a pre trib rapture but if you dont beleave in it well than you wont go so that would make both sides right
Ltaxe1 1 year ago
But what about Noah and his family escaping the flood, or the people who escaped the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra, or Enoch who was actually taken by God to heaven before the flood? Wouldn't you say those are examples of God taking out His people before he unleashes a major judgement? In my opinion 1 Thessalonians 5:9 kind of sums that up briefly. What do you think about those kinds of examples?
Klaheto88 1 year ago
@Klaheto88 I absolutely agree with you. We are not destined for God's wrath. We are, on the other hand, promised persecution (2 Tim 3:2). The Great Tribulation is not the wrath of God, rather the reign of Anti-Christ. And during his reign, he will make war with the saints and overcome them (Rev. 13:7). God's wrath does not begin until the bowl judgments, which follow immediately after the last trumpet, which is when we are raptured (1 Cor. 15:52).
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago 9
@TheNeedForRepentance I guess all i can do is respectfully disagree. I've never seen the seven year tribulation as being the wrath of the anti-christ and God. I've always seen the entire seven years as God's wrath and the anti-christ as just a part of His plans. Therefore it makes perfect sense to me that God would remove us before He unleashes His wrath on earth.
Klaheto88 1 year ago
@Klaheto88 I'm not trying to mean or anything here, but how you picture the tribulation doesn't matter. What does scripture teach? Rev. 16:1 says specifically the bowls are the wrath of God. In Rev. 14:14-19, the harvest of the earth is reaped (Christians), and the clusters (non-Christians) are thrown into the wine press of the wrath of God. This is after the last trumpet (Rev. 11:15), and before the bowl judgments/wrath of God (Rev. 16:1). I pray you can see this.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@Klaheto88 How can the great tribulation be God's wrath? That is what so many pre trib's think now a days. It's called the great tribulation not the great wrath of God. Nowhere else in the bible does God use the devil to execute his wrath, He just does it Himself. The great tribulation is just that, tribulation, and the bible says that we as believers are appointed to trials and tribulation. Don't expect a free ride as a believer when so many others (Jesus included) have had to suffer.
uppercutter21 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance 1 Corinthians 15:51-53
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance This is talking about when the dead are raised after the trumpets. This is not talking about the second coming of Jesus and the taken up of the church, they are already with Jesus.
Jude 14
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones Jude 14
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance
"To judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance See he comes with thousands and thousands of his Holy ones! They are not going to suffer through the tribulation, remember Noah god always protects his own.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance
1 Thessalonians 3:13
"May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones."
Again, another verse talking about those who are left behind during the tribulation, and he will come with all his holy ones.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance
Matthew 24:42-44
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance
He comes with his church at the end of the tribulation. It is not going to be a surprise when he comes with his church. During the tribulation people will see the Anti-Christ and angels in the air, and they will flee into the wilderness. They would expect the thief, and you do not know what time or hour nor trumpet nor wrath that he will come.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
2 Peter 3:3-4
"First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
1Thessalonians 1:10
"...and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead - Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
Revelation 3:10
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth".
Now consider what I have told you.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance So Jesus comes for his church but he does not touch Earth. The second coming is when he comes with all his holy ones, at the last trumpet and he touches down on Earth. The thousand years begin and Jesus Christ rules on Earth for 1000 years with his Holy People. Again, that lines up with scripture. After the 1000s years Satan is released from the bottomless pit and is devoured with fire and cast into the lake of fire. Then the dead are judged and the book of life is opened.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Once again the Holy people are the 12 tribes of Israel. The 2 Jewish tribes and the 10 lost tribes. The church is not Israel. The are not of the seed of Jacob. If you read Isaiah 14, it's about to be Jacob's turn to rule. Esau is ruling now and soon it will be JACOB'S turn. The 144,00 are not the church but the remnant of Jacob. The ywill rule with the LION OF JUDAH Christ Jesus the son of the MOST HIGH GOD.
jatamode 9 months ago
Of course then he makes a new Heaven and New Earth. We will rule with him on this very Earth, not in heaven. He will make everything new, it says in revelation. Maybe he will make the same Earth he made at creation.
Then begins eternity............
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
Anyone who wants further proof of the pre-trib rapture watch the videos on my channel. But stop preaching this false teaching, there is a rapture. If somehow some way Jesus doesn't come for his followers till after they have suffered through the tribulation and thrown into the great wine-press of gods wrath..... you better flee into the wilderness because you are in for a wild ride.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe You took a whole lot of time to make absolutely no point. Nothing you say here indicates when the rapture occurs. My position, on the other hand, does. "But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION..." (Mat. 24:29-31). Are there two raptures? Also, regarding these holy ones that come with the Lord; just because they're with the Lord, doesn't mean they were raptured. Perhaps they were already dead, killed, etc. I checked out your channel, but I didn't feel like listening to Pantera.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance Well thats to bad smartass, best band ever. He does come with his holy ones and it says in Thessalonians many times that Jesus will keep his believers from the coming wrath. He comes with his holy ones at the second coming. It makes no sense for him to come like a thief in the night at the last trumpet. There is a rapture but it is not called the rapture in the Bible. The dead are not raised to AFTER he comes at his second coming his his church for 1000 years.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
The dead are not raised until AFTER he comes at his second coming with his church for 1000 years.*
It says many times in the Bible that he will come for his church like a thief in the night. Don't tell me it doesn't say that you are ignoring ALLOT of scripture. He comes at the rapture, and then at the second coming with his church, and reigns on Earth with them for 1000 years, I KNOW THE BIBLE, SIR.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe True. It does say that. But the Bible also says, "But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief (1 Thes. 5:4)." Now what do you do with it?
And no it says, "the REST OF THE DEAD did not come to life until the thousand years were completed (Rev. 20:5)." Actually, read Rev. 20:4 while you're at it. And lay off the cussing or you will be removed. You ought to be studying a little less rapture and a little more salvation.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance You're the one teaching that there is no rapture when there clearly is. I called you a smartass because you did not want to watch the video that proves the rapture, because there is a pantera song on my channel lol.
Revelation 20:4-6 are people who were left behind when Jesus "Came like a thief in the night" for his church. They did not receive the mark and will reign with Christ and the raptured believers for that 1000 years.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe You're wrong. I do teach a rapture. I simply disagree with you as to when it occurs. Now if Jesus came like a thief in the night, before this instance in Revelation 20:4, then the Bible contradicts itself in Rev. 20:5 because it calls it "the first resurrection." Even the famous rapture text of 1 Thes. 4:16-17 places the dead rising ahead of those alive. Lucky for everyone, you're wrong. The first resurrection is in Rev. 20:4 The Bible does not contradict itself.
TheNeedForRepentance 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance I know about the first resurrection. The Bible does not contradict itself at all, those who are raptured are ALREADY with Christ. I have given you scripture with proof that Jesus comes with his church at his second coming. Those who are in the first resurrection are those who are left behind at the rapture when Jesus comes "Like a thief in the night, and an hour YOU DO NOT EXPECT HIM." That means you don't know what time he comes at FIRST, but you do know about the trumpet.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance That means that the trumpet is the SECOND COMING, and when Jesus comes with his church. It will be no surprise and you will not know when he comes at first, that is the "Rapture", The first resurrection are those who died for Christ during the tribulation, they will reign with Christ and obviously his holy ones.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@TheNeedForRepentance
Jude 14
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones (saints KJV) to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."f.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago