Re: Sam Brownback and the Role of Science in Policy Making

[aodvg]

take an accupuncture session and you will see if it works or not.

[ORWWmedia]

Hilarious!!! I laughed until I cried! Wasn't she on Seinfeld during a couple of episodes during the ninth season?

[c2com]

Jamie in the Bible in the Book of Daniel it explains in depth back in biblical times how science was intergrated in cultural society. Thru Numerology and soundwave time theoroem will best explain and solve your questioning.

[Razela]

Right because numerology is sooo scientific.

[jdbauer36]

Hahah...it's the "onomy" that gets em. If it ends in an "onomy" or an "ology" they automatically see long, white jackets. I wonder if I can make more money if I call myself an "artonomist" or an "artologist" instead of an artist. I bet it's in the bible somewhere.

[davebeac]

cant believe she said accupuncture doesnt work lol

[Razela]

It doesn't.

[davcar23]

What are you going to say next that prayer doesn't work either? well let Madeline Kara Neumann teach you it does... Madeline?... Madeline?... Madeline?...

[DClaudeKatz]

I don't think NCCAM is unscientific. It's true that research on many CAM techniques has failed to find evidence of effectiveness. It's also true that supposed evidence of effectiveness for some conventional techniques can be misleading (as when pharmaceutical companies suppress unfavorable results). Unlike most conventional medicine, there generally isn't anyone who stands to make a huge amount of money on CAM techniques, so without gov't support, they're likely to be under-studied.

[Razela]

The problem is that they support things like homeopathy which has been proved time and again to be worthless. The way it supposedly works breaks the laws of physics. There's no reason to continue to spend tax payer dollars on cure that works by "magic."

[DClaudeKatz]

I think it's a mistake to see homeopathy as a single approach that could only work if it worked the way practitioners say it works. There is practical knowledge that builds up in any field & some of it may turn out to be useful. IIRC e.g. the use of zinc for treating the common cold was originally a homeopathic technique but recently has been successful in clinical trials.

[Razela]

Are you mixing up natural remedies with homeopathic remedies? Zinc homeopathic remedies contain 0 zinc. It doesn't matter whether zinc is effective or not. In a homeopathic concoction, zinc is diluted until none of it remains, therefore it wouldn't do anything.

[2Left2Write]

You can't prove or disprove Homeopathy using the same tests or studying it in the same way that you do for allopathic medicines. It is a compleletly different approach. Allopathic says you have problem A then take pill B. Homeopathy says you have problem A well depending on the reasons you might have to take remedy D,E or F. What worked for someone else won't necessarily work for you.

[Razela]

They've done studies where they had a jar of water and a jar of homeopathic remedy and the homeopaths were unable to even tell which was which. Plus, homeopathy is based on laws that defy all known laws of physics. Is it more likely that homeopathy is wrong, or everything we know about physics?

[2Left2Write]

I'm sure there are doctors who wouldn't be able to tell what a med was even if they took it themselves. But the key statement in your response is "KNOWN laws of physics". At one point in time science believed that there was nothing smaller than an atom. Homeopathy is something that our scientists and government should be looking into because if it is legit (and I think it might be based on personal experience)the benefits to our country in terms of health and economics would be huge.

[Razela]

But homeopathy turns over so much of what we know about physics. Sure, we don't know everything and we could be wrong, but you'd need some pretty strong evidence first, and homeopathy has none.

[2Left2Write]

I don't think Homeopathy turns over everything we know about physics. The line is that a remedy is a substance that has been diluted down till only the essence is left. I think more likely it has been diluted down to the point that our current tech can't detect, even though our bodies can. And all the studies that have been done on homeopathy are flawed. It's like trying to test a blind person's reaction time using visual stimuli it won't work.

[Razela]

Physics says that the more diluted something is, the less there is. There is no "essence." As Rebecca Watson of the Skepchick blog once alluded to: Would you rather swim in an ocean you knew someone had peed in or a bath. Homeopathy says the bath, but I think i'd be choosing the ocean.

[2Left2Write]

Yeah??? You lost me on that one. Homeopathy would be the ocean not the bath. And the question (which we all know and agree on) is does that actually do anything? Your stand seems to be...no it's a complete waste of time. Mine is...I'm not sure but there is enough anecdotal evidence that we should be seriously looking into it

[Razela]

According to Homeopathy the more diluted a substance is, the strong it is. In other words, the pee has most of its essence in the ocean than the bath, but I digress. As to anecdotal evidence, it's completely worthless, except to think that there might be something to study. Homeopathy has been looked into and studied in detail, yet has always failed to show any kind of affect.

[2Left2Write]

My point on the anecdotal was not that it proved anything but that there was enough to warrant further research. As to homeopathy failing to show any affect in studies, well that depends on the studies. Naysayers always point out the "NO" studies (which are flawed to begin with(see my blind person example above)). The "YES" crowd spout off the ones that show positve results(these studies do exist and while not as flawed have issues). More studying needs to be done. We can't close the door yet

[Razela]

And I'm saying that it has been studied. There have been a multitude of studies on homeopathy. They are all negative. I have seen no studies that even show an effect, let alone a positive one. Even studies that have homeopaths tell the difference between a water concoction and a homeopathic one are unable to even tell a difference between the two.

[2Left2Write]

That's where you're wrong. Yes there have been a multitude of studies and despite what you keep saying all are not negative. This is something that is practiced worldwide. Some countries you go to the hospital and the medicine you receive could either be homeopathic or allopathic. This is something used by millions of people. Used by people who experience relief and instead of trying to get to the bottom of this, people say it's nothing and they base that on studies that are faulty to begin with

[4ourthofjuly]

Just wiki homeopathy, it looks like a slice of pizza is as effective.

[iva777fuckernman]

I want you!!!

you are cool girl.

жалко нет звука,и я ничего не полял что ты говорила:(

[Razela]

exit polls? doesn't there need to be an election to do exit polls?

[falsificationism]

1. As of late there has been an increasing number of MDs and researchers taking Eastern medicine and alternative therapies seriously. Hint (they have been shown to be effective...the jury is still out on some of the more recent efficaciousness studies).

So as far as not taking Eastern/alternative healing approaches seriously, leave that to the researchers and MDs.

[falsificationism]

2. I do agree with your point that things like stem cell research and even teaching something as fundamental as evolutionary theory have been dismissed largely due to religious qualms that politicians have about them...usually based on no evidence or sound reasoning whatsoever.

I find it shameful that we elect individuals to make decisions on our behalf who are often even more clueless than we are with respect to science and technology.

[Eisenmond]

I don't know that they "don't work"... there are natural cures for ailments... For instance, Massage therapy is considered alternative medicine, and is highly effective...

Now boiling a chicken's foot and running around the room 14 times mumbling something in Farsi may not cure the Pox... but stranger things have happened... and as a scientist I am willing to explore ALL avenues in search of cures...

[Eisenmond]

Remember, penicillin... A mistake cure found in mold... 100 years ago looking in mold for a cure to ANYTHING would be thought crazy...

Good Science = Open Mind!

[balbu01]

There is a difference between having an open mind and lying though. Homeopathy doesn't equal science.

[Razela]

Yah. Science created penicillin from a mold. Point?

[Eisenmond]

My point is that in a search for cures, it would be foolish to limit ourselves to one area, ignoring the other because it does not make sense. If you fail 999 times, but on that 1000th try you succeed in finding a cure for an ailment, then it was a success.

I think that "Eastern Medicine" does have some very interesting potential, and we could learn something from the "Clean Body, Clean Mind" approach to medicine.

[Razela]

I never said eastern medicine didn't have potential. I said that homeopathy is worthless. It's completely different.

[victropolis]

Ummm....I know for a fact that boiron arnica does work. We use it all the time on our kids, when the receive some kind of blow. Bruises simply do not appear and bumps are smaller than they would have been without the arnica. It's quite amazing.

[HuckabeeForPresident]

Guess what? Most scientists don't know much at all about evolutionism, because it is not their field! So stats showing how many scientists believe in it are irrelevant, since they don't even study it! Those who do, are dedicating their life studying and believing it. Their careers are at stake. Evolutionism is a false interpretation of the history of life's development. It is a mythology.

[balbu01]

Thats probably the closest thing to insanity I have ever heard.

[cincimedes]

not in the real world it isn't :)

[alkirob]

I don't have a lot of personal attachment to homeopathy, but I'm curious on how broadly you define the term. Do you and the studies you cite mean to say that any remedy other than pharmaceuticals or surgircal intervention is complete hogwash?

[Razela]

Great question. Homeopathy is not "any remedy other than pharmaceuticals..." It is the idea that you can take a tiny bit of a substance that is thought to cure a symptom. Then that substance is diluted in water until there is virtually none of it left. In other words, homeopathy is merely water. There are many cases of people taking entire bottles of homeopathic sleeping pills and such without any ill effects. And for good reason. Because it doesn't do anything.

[alkirob]

Every time I heard homeopathy before today I thought it referred to non-Western remedies in a generic sense. So, now I'm slightly less ignorant. From the wikipedia article "Many homeopathic remedies are so highly diluted that no molecules of the original substance are likely to remain. Homeopathy asserts that the remedy will retain a memory of the diluted substance..." Yeah, kinda sounds like crap.

[Razela]

Yah, what you're thinking of is naturalistic medicine, which has it's own list of problems. For example, real medicine is created by taking, for example, a plant that is known to have some sort of health effect. They separate all the chemicals in the substance and test them to find the best possible combination. Then, they study and test them extensively to learn the safest and most effective dosage.

[Razela]

Naturalistic medicine is just literally grounding up the plant into pill form. It's not that it won't work, per se, it's that it's not tested and you have no idea what you're getting or what dosage.  In fact, different pills in the same bottle are likely to have very different dosages. They aren't regulated by the FDA and just plain unsafe. In most cases, you are just better off with real medicine.

[hotbytes2000]

diamond in the rough...diamond = nice face,nice body rough= bad hair, please straighten your hair...color it brown..blonde would be even HOTTER, loose the glasses, trim down the eyebrows, you would be SOO HOT !don't let these political VLOG of yours caused you to grow AFRO...just kid..

[Jenn93]

Can you site sources for why you believe homeopathic remedies don't work? Because I know a lot of people who use it, and I use some of of those remedies, and they work fine for us.

[balbu01]

Homeopathic 'medicine' works great for symptoms of life.

From the BBC

"A leading medical journal has made a damning attack on homoeopathy, saying it is no better than dummy drugs.

The Lancet says the time for more studies is over and doctors should be bold and honest with patients about homoeopathy's "lack of benefit".

A Swiss-UK review of 110 trials found no convincing evidence the treatment worked any better than a placebo."

[Razela]

Just try finding one peer reviewed study that proves homeopathy. There just aren't any.  If homeopathic remedies worked they would be more than simple to prove in a double blind study, but they aren't because they can't be.

[Lunch4lyfe]

The answer is, none! You don't need science when you got Jesus.

[RogCBrand]

Jamie, didn't you see the sign at the zoo-

DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS

: )

Oh, by the way, good question!

[Razela]

Heh, he's a friend of mine and is just joking. Besides, there's only like 1/2 cm of cleavage in this one. He already asked me to delete it, but I'd rather keep it there to teach him a lesson.

[RogCBrand]

LOL!!! I still think you need to post a video wearing a burqa!

: )

[alkirob]

Razela, if you don't do a burqa video response to one of these pols, then I might have to do it. I don't want to steal your thunder though, so I'll give you a chance to do it first.

[shighsmi]

Oh, Jamie, you're going to need more than 1/2cm of cleavage to get Brownback's attention. Have you seen some of the unmoderated videos that have wound up on his page in response to his video?! It's a hoot. Normally you're our main eye candy at CommunityCounts, but now we have all the bootyshaking vids to distract. Oh the scandal! ;-)

[balbu01]

booooooobs...sorry i had too