i love this grappling technique. very good. i do goju but do you think the grappling and striking techniques from the traditional goju system are as effective for self defense as a modern martial art like american kenpo, jeet kune do,krav maga,that were designed especially for modern defense situations?
@gojukarate100 I also love this technique and have done it for many years in all its variations. Goju has not been messed about with too much as have modern styles. The old warriors were doing it for real - life and death not a contest and the old Bunkai reflected this, with contest or modern style no one gets really hurt or killed. I often have to tone down the old Bunkai and use good control to avoid serious injury to my students. Old Goju Bunkai was serious - life and death. Regards Tom
I love Saifa, but for the life me I can't picture where o-goshi would be in the kata. It's definitely in some kata though (pinan sandan) so I think I could recognize it...can you tell me which sequence it's in?
@elenchus Hi, This move is one of the Bunkai from the first three moves of the Kata. There are many possibilities from each Kata move but this Chancery and throw are fairly direct translations from the first move of the Kata where you step forward 45 degrees (grabbing opponents head) - fist in hand and as you turn into the stand up, this would be the throw. There are many wrestling (Togumi) and Ju jitsu moves in the Goju Kata. Regards tom
@TOMHILLSVISION thanks for the reply! Yes, now that you mention it, I can see the ogoshi in there. A master like yourself will of course know this, but I believe the original bunkai was probably tai sabaki evasion and counter strike, or even more specifically a wrist escape and counter strike. There is a nearly exact correlation in traditional jujutsu that in my style (yoseikan budo) is called tai sabaki nagashi (but it is in all styles of aiki-jujutsu under various names).
@elenchus I very much agree about the opening of saifa as being a moveing lesson in Tai Subaki (ultimate body evasion) and you are correct about the other Bunkai. We do at least 6 Bunkai from every move in the Kata (a big big job) this video was about just one move, but as I grew up wrestling as a kid, this particular move in saifa was obvious to me straight away long before I knew any other bunkai. A chancery was always my self defence winner when I got into foolish combat as a kid. regards tom
@TOMHILLSVISION also interesting is that in aikido we have another tai sabaki called "hiraki" which, in the uchi flavor, is almost identical in practice as the crane stance in saifa. I'm from shito-ryu so we have all the kata from both goju-ryu and the various shuri-te styles, but even with all of those kata, I think saifa remains my favorite.
@elenchus Hi I have a couple of students who have practiced Shitoryu and later Shukukai, they tend to love the Goju version even though similar in most respects. I particularly like to watch our female students perform Saifa as they generally move much better in this Kata than male Karateka. Couple of other Saifa videos on this channel. Perhaps you could recommend some aikido bunkai vids that use Saifa type movements? Regards Tom
@TOMHILLSVISION I can't seem to find many on youtube. This is mainly because our terminology is the aiki-jujutsu terminology, before Ueshiba (or his successors, I'm not sure which) changed it post-WW2. But I do have a website that shows the tai sabaki footwork, if not the basic atemi. Opening three techniques in Saifa use what we call (soto) nagashi, and the crane stance is what we call (uchi) hiraki. I'll send the link to your inbox.
@TOMHILLSVISION what's very interesting to me is that not only is the footwork borderline identical, even the atemi are nearly identical. Instead of an uraken (in our Saifa, at least) we have a more traditional backfist as our atemi in nagashi, and in hiraki/crane stance, to the inside, we parry with one arm, chop/guard to the collarbone with the outside arm and use mei geri to the groin.
@elenchus Much of Goju has 'white crane' influence so perhaps that is where there is much common ground. 'Go ken ki' hard fist saint (roughly translated) was present in Okinawa at the time of Miyagi and the founding of the system and he was a white crane stylist. regards tom
@TOMHILLSVISION In aiki-jujutsu, we have no solo kata, so technically speaking, it's all bunkai. Thus, I've had to isolate all the movements from both judo and aikido (traditional jujutsu generally) and practice them solo systematically to try and make connections with the kata I've learned over the last couple of years. There are only so many ways to deal with an attack, but the similarity between the bunkai in saifa and the basic tai sabaki in yoseikan is absolutely striking.
@TOMHILLSVISION I wonder if it's unique to the Yoseikan system. Our founder, Minoru Mochizuki, mastered virtually every non-Chinese (Chinese stuff was pretty taboo in Japan at the time) martial art in the world, although officially he learned Shotokan from Funakoshi. Perhaps Funakoshi knew those kata, or perhaps he learned naha-te somewhere on the way. His son was much more interested in karate, so perhaps these tai sabaki come from his son.
@TOMHILLSVISION This last part seems a bit unlikely as we Americans and Japanese have our roots in the father, Minoru, and the Europeans have their roots in his son, so their style is much more karate-esque than our own. If, however, these movements are in many styles of traditional mainland JMA, then the more striking conclusion would be that naha-te itself, and perhaps the Chinese since apparently Saifa is very old, got the techniques from mainland Japan. That would be a fascinating finding.
@TOMHILLSVISION I think saifa raises some interesting questions as to the relationship of naha-te to Japanese jujutsu, as naha-te is generally believed to be the most Chinese (and least Japanese) of the te-variants, and yet, some sets in saifa in particular, but other naha-te kata as well, seem to have a 97% resemblance to many aikido techniques (were they to be practiced solo), some of which are fairly complex and would tend to not be replicated by accident. Anyway, great videos, thanks again
@elenchus Hi Thanks for all your comments very interesting. Keep up your inquirey into the roots of the Kata. From our understanding Saifa is a vey old Chinese Kata and it certainly feels that way - it has a distinctive 'flavour'. At the end of the day all Martial Arts have common ground and its good that we can come together in our common practise. Kind regards tom.
i love this grappling technique. very good. i do goju but do you think the grappling and striking techniques from the traditional goju system are as effective for self defense as a modern martial art like american kenpo, jeet kune do,krav maga,that were designed especially for modern defense situations?
gojukarate100 7 months ago
@gojukarate100 I also love this technique and have done it for many years in all its variations. Goju has not been messed about with too much as have modern styles. The old warriors were doing it for real - life and death not a contest and the old Bunkai reflected this, with contest or modern style no one gets really hurt or killed. I often have to tone down the old Bunkai and use good control to avoid serious injury to my students. Old Goju Bunkai was serious - life and death. Regards Tom
TOMHILLSVISION 7 months ago
I love Saifa, but for the life me I can't picture where o-goshi would be in the kata. It's definitely in some kata though (pinan sandan) so I think I could recognize it...can you tell me which sequence it's in?
elenchus 7 months ago
@elenchus Hi, This move is one of the Bunkai from the first three moves of the Kata. There are many possibilities from each Kata move but this Chancery and throw are fairly direct translations from the first move of the Kata where you step forward 45 degrees (grabbing opponents head) - fist in hand and as you turn into the stand up, this would be the throw. There are many wrestling (Togumi) and Ju jitsu moves in the Goju Kata. Regards tom
TOMHILLSVISION 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION thanks for the reply! Yes, now that you mention it, I can see the ogoshi in there. A master like yourself will of course know this, but I believe the original bunkai was probably tai sabaki evasion and counter strike, or even more specifically a wrist escape and counter strike. There is a nearly exact correlation in traditional jujutsu that in my style (yoseikan budo) is called tai sabaki nagashi (but it is in all styles of aiki-jujutsu under various names).
elenchus 7 months ago
@elenchus I very much agree about the opening of saifa as being a moveing lesson in Tai Subaki (ultimate body evasion) and you are correct about the other Bunkai. We do at least 6 Bunkai from every move in the Kata (a big big job) this video was about just one move, but as I grew up wrestling as a kid, this particular move in saifa was obvious to me straight away long before I knew any other bunkai. A chancery was always my self defence winner when I got into foolish combat as a kid. regards tom
TOMHILLSVISION 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION also interesting is that in aikido we have another tai sabaki called "hiraki" which, in the uchi flavor, is almost identical in practice as the crane stance in saifa. I'm from shito-ryu so we have all the kata from both goju-ryu and the various shuri-te styles, but even with all of those kata, I think saifa remains my favorite.
elenchus 7 months ago
@elenchus Hi I have a couple of students who have practiced Shitoryu and later Shukukai, they tend to love the Goju version even though similar in most respects. I particularly like to watch our female students perform Saifa as they generally move much better in this Kata than male Karateka. Couple of other Saifa videos on this channel. Perhaps you could recommend some aikido bunkai vids that use Saifa type movements? Regards Tom
TOMHILLSVISION 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION I can't seem to find many on youtube. This is mainly because our terminology is the aiki-jujutsu terminology, before Ueshiba (or his successors, I'm not sure which) changed it post-WW2. But I do have a website that shows the tai sabaki footwork, if not the basic atemi. Opening three techniques in Saifa use what we call (soto) nagashi, and the crane stance is what we call (uchi) hiraki. I'll send the link to your inbox.
elenchus 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION what's very interesting to me is that not only is the footwork borderline identical, even the atemi are nearly identical. Instead of an uraken (in our Saifa, at least) we have a more traditional backfist as our atemi in nagashi, and in hiraki/crane stance, to the inside, we parry with one arm, chop/guard to the collarbone with the outside arm and use mei geri to the groin.
elenchus 7 months ago
@elenchus Much of Goju has 'white crane' influence so perhaps that is where there is much common ground. 'Go ken ki' hard fist saint (roughly translated) was present in Okinawa at the time of Miyagi and the founding of the system and he was a white crane stylist. regards tom
TOMHILLSVISION 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION In aiki-jujutsu, we have no solo kata, so technically speaking, it's all bunkai. Thus, I've had to isolate all the movements from both judo and aikido (traditional jujutsu generally) and practice them solo systematically to try and make connections with the kata I've learned over the last couple of years. There are only so many ways to deal with an attack, but the similarity between the bunkai in saifa and the basic tai sabaki in yoseikan is absolutely striking.
elenchus 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION I wonder if it's unique to the Yoseikan system. Our founder, Minoru Mochizuki, mastered virtually every non-Chinese (Chinese stuff was pretty taboo in Japan at the time) martial art in the world, although officially he learned Shotokan from Funakoshi. Perhaps Funakoshi knew those kata, or perhaps he learned naha-te somewhere on the way. His son was much more interested in karate, so perhaps these tai sabaki come from his son.
elenchus 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION This last part seems a bit unlikely as we Americans and Japanese have our roots in the father, Minoru, and the Europeans have their roots in his son, so their style is much more karate-esque than our own. If, however, these movements are in many styles of traditional mainland JMA, then the more striking conclusion would be that naha-te itself, and perhaps the Chinese since apparently Saifa is very old, got the techniques from mainland Japan. That would be a fascinating finding.
elenchus 7 months ago
@TOMHILLSVISION I think saifa raises some interesting questions as to the relationship of naha-te to Japanese jujutsu, as naha-te is generally believed to be the most Chinese (and least Japanese) of the te-variants, and yet, some sets in saifa in particular, but other naha-te kata as well, seem to have a 97% resemblance to many aikido techniques (were they to be practiced solo), some of which are fairly complex and would tend to not be replicated by accident. Anyway, great videos, thanks again
elenchus 7 months ago
@elenchus Hi Thanks for all your comments very interesting. Keep up your inquirey into the roots of the Kata. From our understanding Saifa is a vey old Chinese Kata and it certainly feels that way - it has a distinctive 'flavour'. At the end of the day all Martial Arts have common ground and its good that we can come together in our common practise. Kind regards tom.
TOMHILLSVISION 7 months ago