Making double layer PCBs at home

[insonicbloom]

well the safety issues aside here, how much has all this cost you to do, we've got the various chemicals and hardware going on, then the most drawn out procedure I have ever seen to make a PCB. it would be cheaper to just have someone like iTeadstudios do professional PCBs at $30 shipped for 10 (10x10cm) boards. anyway spend a little more time researching safety methods than figuring out how to put daft pictures on your boards

[seakinggr]

One qustion, is necessary from the mercury vapor lamp to broke the outer bulb??

[cyberelectronics]

@seakinggr You can give it a try with the outer bulb (this filters out the UV), I never tried. Some newer mercury vapor lamps have a protection and will not work when the outer bulb is broken.

[cyberelectronics]

@seakinggr You can give it a try with the outer bulb (this filters out the UV), I never tried. Some newer mercury vapor lamps have a protection and will not work when the outer bulb is broken.

Be very carefull with the mercury vapor lamp and all the UV staff, it is very dangerous for your eyes and skin!!!

[boraboy4ever]

Double sided not doubled layer. :) i loved the rapid video. not sitting watching you do everymethod. good job.

[radumotisan]

very good tutorial, great video, thanks for sharing!

[EyMoe1]

Thank you very much :-) great video ;)

[martyfriedman666]

Cool vid! i'v etched PCBs before but never two sided boards. I thought DIY was only suitable for single sided! I used the iron on method before tho so would probably have to switch to UV to use this method. would it be worth it do you think? UV vs Toner? i liked the iron on toner method cos it has less chemicals involved. (no photoresist etc)

[UnderseaCaveman]

great video and ideas

[rainbowsalads]

hello : )

i wonder, how do you connect one side of the board to the other ? do you use a metal pin or special through hole component to join them together when you solder? Or does the software choose a leg of a resistor or other component during the board layout render? thanks + great video : )

[cyberelectronics]

@rainbowsalads Thanks.

I soldered the vias, using thin copper wire and desoldering braid (to remove excess solder).

[rainbowsalads]

@cyberelectronics thanks : ) with home made Boards like this i presume we really have to route the pcb manually on the computer, as i find that Eagles autorouter will select the pins of an iC and route lines along the top of the pcb, which is impossible to solder at the top when the IC is in the way : / the only way around this I (a novice) have found is to manually route those pins along the bottom, or maybe create near via's to help the auto router get up to the top of the board? : )

[robtubedude1]

Very good video, thanks.

[krishbala000]

good pcb design

[foxxtrotalpha]

How did you get the Alien head in the ground plane like that?

[cyberelectronics]

@foxxtrotalpha Draw the object lines in Keepout Layer, then place a Polygone plane over this. Copy the resulted object inside the keepout lines to a library file.

[electron2222]

nice =9

[TuesdayJack]

Love the music!! Thanks for the link to Dance-industries.

Great tutorial too. I'm a microsystems engineer, so doing this kinda things in the lab at a much smaller scale, and always loads of problems!!

[Mountain117]

I always get some little dots on my pcb when I spray it, is my room too dusty or what?

[cyberelectronics]

@Mountain117 Probably, or your PCB not clean enough.

[XboxHowTo1234]

and where do you get yours and what brand is it?



[cyberelectronics]

@XboxHowTo1234 Where: tme . eu - chemical materials for pcb

[XboxHowTo1234]

So what is posutive 20 spray?

[weavtech78]

what was the bulbs that you used in the scaner chassis, there have been many types used and I have tried many with little success using a scrap piece of reisist board and a piece of heavy paper and sliding the paper out every 30 seconds and getting varring results that are not reproduceable. I already have 8 2 bulb ballasts for 24 inch T8 bulbs Thanks weavtech78

[cyberelectronics]

I'm using the Philips TL8W/05 tubes.

[samanthms123]

do we have to 'mirror' only the top layer and not the bottom layer ?

[cyberelectronics]

Yes.

[midgethoen]

Great video for getting started with PCB making. Thnx!

[fireraisr]

cool vid, I wasn't aware of the photoresist sprays out there, very informative. i like the thought of being able to make a board without destroying my printout circuit like with the iron on method, makes it convenient to make copies.

[rcj1207]

how much would you charge me to make one for me if I can get you layout and so forth? Awesome video, great work this video is extremely well put together.

[allvetarnfow]

Hi, at school I tried to make duoble layer card but I somehow failed. I still have some material left for few tries and after watching this I might now what went wrong;)

[GmodSkylines]

What did you design this with? I try PCB123 but it dosnt print out right.. the wiring prints but not the batttery shape and crap... or led shape please help!

[cyberelectronics]

It doesn't matter what PCB software you use.

If a component can't be found in libraries or you don't like the existing one, simply draw the component manually. For good results we always need to work more.

[GmodSkylines]

@cyberelectronics Thanks you dude.. helped me alot :)

[dartplayer170]

At the begining you specify using inkjet paper setup rather than transparency even though you are using a transparency. Why?

[cyberelectronics]

I use transparent foil for inkjet printers.

For better contrast, use Plain/Inkjet settings (transparency mode, produce poor contrast, in my case).

[fronkenpoop]

Excellent.

I understand that photo-resist spray can be quite difficult to use because of dust and other contaminates in the air. You seem to do a great job with your board.

Would be nice to hear if you have any strategies for coping with through holes / vias other than manually soldering each side. I've not had much success with two sided boards.

[cyberelectronics]

Thanks.

For vias, I use the same method (manually soldering) + under SMD components I use desoldering braid.

[Rhagedx86]

Wow Really liked this, Great job

[shorterboyabcdef]

My contrast always sucked, nice trick

[Daniel94so]

what can be used instead of ferric chloride???thank you.

[cyberelectronics]

Developing solution: Sodium Metasilicate (Product code ex: Seno 4007)

Etching solution: Sodium persulfate - Na2S2O8 (Product code ex: B327)

[dartplayer170]

I used to use ammonium perchlorate but cannot find it around here anymore. It has the advantage of being clear.

[condemn3Di]

amazing video. thank you.

[YoLninYo]

for being someone that a lot of newcomers look up to, you show a reckless disregard for safety procedures. if you don't care about poisoning yourself, that is fine, but at least encourage young people who might be watching these videos to wear gloves and other safety equipment.

[RetroRepair]

He does at least state at the end of the video that these chemicals are dangerous, though yes, I do agree with you. I also think though that his videos are very helpful and his results are ace.

[cordlessmart]

instead of a air brush .. can i put the photoresist on with a q-tip then blow air with a can of air to get the same thin film effect ??

[cyberelectronics]

No.

[vlahos78]

hi ..how can i make a simple PCB design on an transparency and not on an actual board like you just did in this video?( like all the copper or solder lines of the design on a thin plastic foil??) Thanks!!!

[cyberelectronics]

I think you want FPC ( flexible printed circuit).

You must find copper coated film (where?).

This can be etched like a normal PCB.

"How to" on Instructables (search for): DIY Flexible Printed Circuits

[afxgrin]

I've found that enough laser printers don't deposit enough toner on the transparency, and over exposing can be a problem. Just responding to part of your video that says over exposing is better than under exposing. I don't know if you've experienced this problem.

[cyberelectronics]

Yes I've found the same problem with laser printers. Then I tryed the inkjet printer and this works much better (must use good quality transparencies). Over expose is better becuase in this case only the copper tracks can be affected by the etching solution. In case of under expose the whole board can be unusable (unetched copper islands).

[ventureelect]

There is a far better way of doing this, contact me if interested. He does have a great video though.

[afxgrin]

Yeah, the thin plastic foil is either copper clad mylar or copper clad kapton - sometimes called polyimide film. You want to purchase it with the photoresist already on or use the spray on resist like in the video, because using a peel and stick photoresist is a serious pain to deal with. copper clad plastics will form weird ripples and you'll get all sorts of air bubbles.

[daxweb]

what s the distance between ther 4 uv neon and the glass?

and the dist. betweem neons?

i can t make alike results , i think my problem is in the exposure phase.

[cyberelectronics]

1. 2-3 cm

2. 4-5 cm

Probably.

Use a test PCB to find the correct exposure time and try using thin, uniform photoresist layer.

The developing process also is very important.

You need some experience only (2-3 PCBs).

Don't give up!

[daxweb]

the best video for double layer pcb making

[vince086]

Really good video!!! I can only dream of making my own PCBs but still.

[First2ner]

good vid, but use it no more, laser printer FTW

[ivanhooi88]

good video

[Knucklez2bsure]

thank you for sharing

[Mountain117]

What program did you use for designing that pcb?

[cyberelectronics]

Any PCB design software can be used (Altium, OrCAD, Eagle, Sprint Layout, etc...).

[Mountain117]

How do you get both layers in the same pdf file?

[cyberelectronics]

Only 1 layer (duplicated) / pdf file

[donnyab]

very good, some good tips that will save money, thanks

[heroineworshipper]

Good idea with the dual layer transparency sandwich. We use a white $1 fluorescent light bulb for 20 minutes. Unfortunately rent is way to high to keep a drill press around.

[bocatablanco]

you could print it as transprency, and not need to put two

[cyberelectronics]

I had bad results with transparency mode.

[DontTurnAround0]

is there any way to make it green?

and also is there any way to have two layers?

[cyberelectronics]

The green solder mask is only necessary if you use immersion or wave soldering, used only for mass PCB production. I found this on the web: TESTOR 1256 Transparent Green enamel, I think from the Pulsarprofx.

In this video you can see a two layer PCB.

[coolboarder44]

Cool, a few things I didn't know you could use there! I question: That final spray at the very end that you put on (protective solder flux)....will that prevent the copper from oxidizing over time? And you can still solder connections through it? Thanks for great info!

[cyberelectronics]

Yes, the spray prevent the copper from oxidation and helps the soldering process.

[hypercube12323]

well what i mean is how did you get that circuit board design.

[Sniperson2002]

It looks as though he designed his own board.

[cyberelectronics]

Yes, the board was designed by me.

This is a AVR programmer with USB connection.

[hypercube12323]

please answer

[hypercube12323]

what website did you use? please answer

[ajhnubia]

I Have HP Inkjet printer using the correct clear film and setting the printer to max dots per inch and darkest setting produces good negatives without the need to double up the negatives as I used to before I used HP clear film.

[swede4fh]

What is the photoresist you used, and where did you purchase it?

[cyberelectronics]

Hi

The photoresist spray is: Positiv 20

I bought from: tme . eu

[auburntaco]

that's really impressive...good job

[zolax]

Nice. How did you solder this device in tqfp package if you made vias under it?

[cyberelectronics]

Thanks.

I soldered the vias, using thin copper wire and desoldering braid.

[awsutherland]

How did you expose both sides of the board without flipping it?

[cyberelectronics]

I did not record it, but I mentioned in the film "Expose each layer"

[ultimatedevr]

What's the music in this video?

[cyberelectronics]

Music by: GruwQruw - "Ibiza Nights" and "Until I stop"

[lepermunna]

great vid, thanks!

[greatestunknown]

Very good tutorial on double layer board making. GREAT !

[daxweb]

It's a great video!!!

i have learn the trick for the master double layer...

great great great

[elmeister4evayoknow]

again... another masterpiece made by cyber, good job fella, keep it up

10000000000 stars, cyber FTW!!!

[Fureszk]

Tetszik a videó, favoritokhoz adtam és 5 csillag! 1-2 ötletet sikerült ellesni. (:

[cyberelectronics]

Kösz szépen!

Örülök neki :)