lol at 01Proust. be more of a Judo homer. To be honest your statement is exactly opposite of the truth. While both Judo and BJJ are Martial Arts Judo is far and away more sport driven than BJJ. How do I know? I train and compete in both. Both are amazing arts, both are amazing martial arts, but to say that BJJ is pure sport and Judo is self defense is loltastic. I mean really dude, get in the dojo and learn something rather than spout off on an internet message board when you have no clue.
Judo is still a self-defense system. On the street one powerful throw of a Judoka ends the fight. The ippon of Judo reflects reality. BJJ is a pure sport. Nobody can risk rolling on the ground in a self-defense situation. Judoka have perfect balance, nobody can throw them. BJJ fighters on the other hand lack balance and devastating throws. Judo and Sambo are true martial arts. Even on the ground under BJJ rules no BJJ world champion would defeat a Judo world champion because BJJ lacks power.
I don't see why people keep arguing about BJJ and Judo, they use the same techniques, they just differ in tactics, in that BJJ evolved as more of a self defence form and didn't generally ban use of techniques, while Judo evolved as more of a sport
Wow! There a lot of big talking Judokas on here. It's a shame you guys are all blind. Go and check out the video of rigan machado embarrassing black belt Judokas in a Judo comp one after the other. BJJ blue belts routinely demolish Judo black belts in competition as well. Keep dreaming Judokas! Modern day BJJ practitioners have it all over you!
@gutts077 all that video shows is one of the best grapplers in the world (rigan) defeating a bunch of no-names in a local tournament. it doesnt prove that BJJ in general is better than judo, just that rigan was better than all the guys he faced in that tournament.
@gutts077 You do know the video you speak of is a local open judo tournament meaning low level Judoka he could of tried his hand at a E-level?and I am sure the results would be much different and the only place BBJ blue belts demolish judo is in BJJ tourneys you guys never get away with that in Judo tourneys so what does that prove?
@gutts077 Oh yeah a little history lesson you know the same thing happen to
Team Gracie Barra in Brazil" home of BJJ " the black belts there were all submitted by
a single Brazilian Judoka Named Ezequiel Paraguassu maybe you heard of the choke and the grip Ezekiel please note that this is not how he spelled his name.
@steeeeker Helio being severely undersized compared to Kimura is another Gracie lie. Kimura (85 Kg) only outweighed Helio (80Kg) by 5 Kg. Today, that would make Helio a welterweight a Kimura a middleweight. As for sport Judo not having a technical ground game, that's true. But traditional Judokas are more than a match for BJJ'ers. Look up Tsunetane Oda (Jigoro Kano's personal choice to develop judo newaza) and his Kosen judokas. Oda was absolute perfection on the ground.
@BloodofPatriots That is were alot Jit player get this Idea in their head that Judo has no ground game there is a difference between sport Judo which you see in these Judo vs BJJ vids and Traditional Judo which studies ground alot more because they have no goal to go to the olympics or compete for that matter
@glock70 Absolutely true. Master Tsunetane Oda's knowledge of newaza made the gracies look like mere children wrestling in the dirt. Oda didn't make the mistake of separating newaza from tachiwaza as BJJ'ers do today. Instead, his newaza flowed from tachiwaza. The man was absolute Judo perfection.
@steeeeker First, a brown belt after 9 years? Someone's lying. As for judo not being known for its ground game, you mistake sport judo for traditional judo. Trust this old traditional judoka, you tangle with me on the ground and you'll soon realize why Kimura snapped Helio's arm like a twig.
@steeeeker and all the hater who hate on the oriental martial arts seem to forgot that bjj is still consider oriental becz many technique are base off of jjj and judo which helios use to adapt into gjj..as well as most of the non-oriental martial arts and fighting stlye nowadays which is all base off of the oreintal and almos all of its move is still oreintal created moves that non asian use to put into another form with another name..but really they are alll oriental style
I don't think that a guy practicing BBJ only 6 months could defeat a Black Belt Judo who had to train at least 4 years. Besides a more effective and lethal martial art is Krav Maga, all the soldiers and mossad agents from israel are master. What would you do if I a guy punched your throat and broken your neck?
@xavros great comment! most bjj students (especially some 6 month white belt) know about is the wimpy tap stuff anyway...also because MMA has gotten the martial arts so away from the real world. plus there is also a diffeence in getting someone to tap and actually going through with the break in a real life situation
@Romaniandick1994 Israel army and Mossad agents uses Krav Maga that it was developed to fight several fighters, It's true you must be faster but WHY don't Israel Army and MOSSAD agents pratice BJJ? because it's too much better Krav Maga even Karate Do Shoto Kan with only one punch or kick can knock out anyone, if you are focus in only one fighter in several situations you will be hurt or dead, most of the times are more than one fighter. Besides BJJ is an sport not a Artial Mart
@Shaunton1 ur a fkn retard...bjj will ALWAYS get their ass kicked with judo rules, cuz there is no jump guard bullshit and bjj guys suck on standing and judo is the best standing martial art so get over it
@MrChickenFajita you are an idiot!.....Do you train?...I have blackbelt in Jujitsu and judo. They are both good arts...You need to hit the gym and stop be an internet tuff guy.
@Shaunton1 yes man i train, and im not an idiot, if u really have a blackbelt in both you would know that what i said is true. BJJ guys are awesome on the ground but ok standing. Judo guys are awesome on their feet and ok on the ground. this is FACTUAL its just how they train. a BJJ guy will ALWAYS lose to a judo guy with judo rules cuz they cant just jump guard and put on a submission, the judo guy will simply grab them and throw them like a rag doll. BJJ rules the bjj guy would probably win
Típico, el de Bjj quiere hacer un ko soto gari y se come un uchi mata. Soy naranja en judo, el otro día cuando un azul de Bjj me quiso hacer un ko soto gari lo lancé con un sumi gaeshi quedando después arriba suyo, en retención. Ah, haciendo newaza también mantuve una posición dominante e intenté ir al ude garami o el sode guruma shime, pero realmente, tenía recursos muy interesantes.
Judo has the same submission moves as Jiu Jitsu. What's different now:
BJJ has leg locks and spine submissions like neck cranks. Most Judo trainer won't teach you that. Jiu Jitsu also focuses more on escapes (when in the guard, for example)
Judo puts the focus on throwing and pinning your opponent on the ground. Again It has almost the same exact submission moves has BJJ, but focuses more on the control of the opponent.
I think Judo is better for real life situations, my opinion.
@Thewiseguitar well just like TKD and karate. judo was a lot more dangerous back then but now because of the olympics they had to change the aggressiveness of these MA
wow, im reallyy suprised about how many people fight over a video, and whats funny is their all probally fat lazy slops that can type about 10 wpm, lol just wow
what i've been trying to say is that bJJ Gracie Ju Jitsu isn't proper Ju Jitsu, it's a Judo based system that has concentrated on the takedown into submission techniques for UFC and MMA competition. It is a sport that doesnt prepare you as much for the various possibilities of attacks on a street. It has it's value and i always rooted for Royce Gracie in UFC, but i'm not into competition at all I test my skills in a different way. Sparring is not necessarily the route to success in martial arts
@mrdubcrazy your comments actually point out your lack of knowledge in BJJ. or judo for that matter. the fact that you believe all BJJ and Judo guys have the go to the ground mindset shows that. id much rather take the man down with a uchi mata takedown.stomp him and move on. as i mention. alot of classical Jiujutsu focus on fine motor movement. where asJudo sambo, and BJJ focus on gross motor movement. the difference is fine motor movement is VERY difficult to do against fully resistant people
@mrdubcrazy just because it isn't japanese doesnt mean its somehow improper. especially since Judo came from classical jiujitsu. what i find funny is that so many people who do traditional martial arts are quick to call MMA and its surrounding systems( boxing, thai, BJJ) sport fighting, and thus not street wise. yet if you ever see a street fight. those are the exact same attacks being done. all of them allow you to use all moves against an opponent as much as you can. no too dangerous BS.
@pedro90 I tell u the exact reason i'm criticizing BJJ & MMA is the ego and sheer over-self confidence alot of the practitioners have. Believe in what u do by all means but question it too as that's the way it develops. We have police and military clubs in my style too. It seems they are just people as well who have personal preferences. When i see BJJ doing knife & weapon defences as an integral part of the syllabus then i'll shut up.
@mrdubcrazy nice video. however very few differnet techniques then from BJJ. or even judo. only techniques not done are the wrist locks. which not even students were doing in the application. however sparring os still going to be the main tool to teach you the skill. seeing as its the closest to the real thing. just like you'd never claim to be an amazing swimmer without getting in a pool. you can't be good martial artist without sparring and lots of it.also watch?v=Aeg926nPCGQ
@pedro90 Stop putting words into my mouth....I used to train in Judo as a Kid. We also do Judo Randori and ne waza in Ju Jitsu as an integral aspect of training and we do the Kodokan version of the Nage No Kata.. in other words we value it for. However sparring isn't the only way of pressure testing techniques. As for the fine motor movement argument, we do both and use atemi strikes to distract or weaken opponent into being able to apply locks and as entry into other techniques.
@pedro90 Continued..try this...when ur struggling to get a JuJi Gatame on an opponent and he's not allowing u to get it on, give him a slap to the nuts or face, watch how u divert attention away from his arm for a second allowing u to get the armbar on. 1 of the purposes of striking in Ju Jitsu. I swear Ju Jitsu works cos i have defended myself with it on several occasions. Of course it's a progressive martial art and takes a long time to master the techniques.
@mrdubcrazy p.s. i have no problem with strikes in jiujitsu. my problem was you saying its not a viable art simply because alot of people do it for competition. so what, there are alot of Karate competitions. yet it is also for self defense. there are also many schools that don't teach weapons work. doesn't mean there not self defense either.
@mrdubcrazy if you don't believe that the gracies promote there system as self defense first, then go to there youtube channel. and if your still not convinced thats streetwise, then go tell that to your local Army recruiter. seeing as the MMA repituar is the exact same thing being taught to soldiers both US and growing in UK. with the inclusion of proper weapons work of course. the point is. it works. it is effective. as long as you know what moves to leave in the ring, and what to do on street
@mrdubcrazy there are many martial art systems that also highly promote competition. are you gonna now call olympic gold medalists in Karate sport fighters too? yes there is indeed sport BJJ with techniues only sutable for sport. just as in TKD and karate. at the same time many moves are not for sport and are for self defense. but you have to actually train in it to know,. not just look at vids online or what you see in UFC . bjj and judo are also the primary arts taught to police. they work.
Royce graci (judo black belt) Renzo gracie (judo black belt ) Saulo Ribero (judo black belt) Xande Ribero (Judo Black belt) Kron Graci(judo black belt) . The thing to rember is Judo and bjj are the oposite sides of the same coin .The rules of both games dictates the attributes of each art . Judo ,throws Bjj gound work. PLAY BOTH !!!!!
@razor84man not to mention both actually teach alot of the same moves, just one emphasizes different areas. Judo guys know groundfighting but sport makes them focus on the throws. bjj knows throws but sport makes them focus on submissions. both with serve well in a street fight.
@pedro90 not aginst a good puncher or against weapons or multiple attacjers....shall i go on. real Ju Jitsu is wot u need....not dissing Judo though it is a sport like BJJ but better.
@mrdubcrazy sure you can i have debated this topic before. a grappler with the intent to close the distance and clinch/takedown usually comes out on top. watch in gracie challenge video for that. the fact that you have to get into clinch range to punch to begin with all ready puts you at a disadvantage. weapons is a matter of simply disarming the opponent. and as for multiple attackers- get your ass out of there ASAP is the most logical solution. the fact that you are outnumbered is bad enough.
@pedro90 Mate ur missing the point....Gracie Ju Jitsu is a sport and they say so themselves. It is good if u train for self defense, in which case i would say avoid going to the ground as little as possible. In reality concrete is an unforgiving surface. The fact is that you can rarely do Ju Jitsu's full arsenal of techniques in a competition because it's all designed to seriously incapacitate someone hence the plethora of rules. i'll send u alink of similar to what i do so u can have a look.
@mrdubcrazy no they don't. the gracies have marketed BJJ as self defense since the day it bursted onto the scene. #2 your logic is highly flawed. less sparring doesnt make you better it will indeed make you worse. regardless of what your system may think. if your gonna be attacked, the only way to get used to how you will actually handle it is by being attacked by someone who is trying there best to thwart and hurt you. BJJ and Judo do just that. free sparring with as much force as youd like.
@mrdubcrazy and if by "real" jiujitsu you mean classical jiujutsu a fundamental problem with them is to many techniques are never sparred with or used against a live resistant opponent in sparring like matter. so your brain doesn't register them as instinct. judo and BJJ guys sparr full resistant all the time. also classical jiu jitsu focus alot on small joint manipulation and fine motor movement-very difficult to pull off. where as Judo and BJJ use gross motor movement- much safer and easier
@pedro90 Ju Jitsu is a progressive martial art, i e you have to learn the movements first and start applying them the higher up you get in a much more robust manner, moving from one to another. sure the Classical Ju Jitsu styes don't spar as such, but in my style we do judo Randori & groundwork and the higher you get the more they throw at you. The point is to deal with an attacker quickly and move to the next one using positioning, evasion and psychology. We use strikes as entry techniques.
@mrdubcrazy the whole mutliple opponent argument is frankly a straw man argument and there is no system that will give you techniques to deal with being jumped by 8 full grown men. some strategies may work like constant movement but again its not a solution. Evasion is the best choice. judo and BJJ are martial arts, not just a sport. if they were ,are millitary wouldn't train in it for hand to hand combat. shall i go on?
I do Judo. It's always seemed a bit dumb for BJJ to be all about the ground but useless at getting people there. Although I'd totally loose on the ground to one of you bjj guys...doubt most of you little dudes would have an easy time getting me on the ground though.
you cant bash either of these styles, all I know from experience is a trained extensively in both of them and it completed my total fight game. Since I am trained in both, I made a smooth transition into sambo which is a fun style to train in.
@SonicPAJ What do you mean weakness of BJJ? Meaning, is Judo the only art to stabilize BJJ? If that's what you mean than yes and no. Each art favors itself in its own competition and only a few good artists cross train and cross compete thus becoming the ultimate artists (Aoki, Fedor, Werdum, Mochado brothers). All of those that I listed train and compete in different arts and are champions as well... thus they are more deadly than others who don't cross-compete.
@SonicPAJ sambo is a russian style which was developed by a russian judoka. It involves alot of judo, wrestling, jujitsu and strikes. It is fun to train in.
judo and bjj are basically the same thing except in competitions, judo emphasis more on throwing and bjj emphasize on ground control and submission. But overall, technique wise, and work-out wise, judo and bjj share almost all of the throwing and submission techniques
why don't people understand that there are very few differences between judo and bjj? Judo is Jujutsu that Jigoro Kano modified for sport. Bjj is Judo that was modified for smaller people to utilize. i prefer judo but to each their own. Judo has plenty of ground grapplingmoves and Bjj has throws.
@stevensauri LOL! that's gotta be the stupidest statement I've heard in I don't know how long! Yeah, and Judo was invented by a Jujutsuka. Let's go 'round in circles about that one again, shall we? Most Judo and wrestling moves can be seen in paintings as early as ancient Egyptian tombs. Og the caveman probably had a couple throws in his bag of tricks ruling over the clan of the cave bear. The stuff is what it is. Keep it in context, cross-train where useful and work hard. STFU and train.
@stevensauri Could it be a statement of fact? LOL! I got an Idea, let's label everything so nobody can ever get credit for anything, sound good to you? So, who's this Judoka you're talking about who "invented" BJJ? Who knows, I might even agree with you. It's still a dumbshit thing to say because it's either the most obvious truth possible or it's complete bullshit. In any case it appears to be an attempt to denegrate BJJ. Judo was also invented by a Jujutsuka ... comment?
@MrMZaccone mitsuyo maede or conde koma "count of war" this name was given to him by brazilians he was sent to brazil to teach Judo and he was a Judoka from Kodokan ryu and one of Jigoro Kano prize students and yes Judo came from Jujitsu a mix of jujitsu styles tenjin shinyo ryu, sekiguchi ryu ,seigo ryu and just as the gracies did Kano sent out students all across the globe to pitch Judo against other arts and did very well but all in all the arts are one of the same .
@glock70 The arts have virtually the same catalog of techniques but are applied in entirely different ways. There are also methodologies, such as the "punch block" version of the guard (do-osae in Judo) that are not, as far as I have seen, present in traditional Judo at all.
@MrMZaccone have you ever heard of Kodokan Goshin Jutsu?
most people outside of judo have know idea what that is, it is the forms of self defense against unarmed and armed attacks which include strikes , punches , kicks all the atemi waza that people claim judo does not have ,much like the way the gracies teach GJJ just in judo you start at black belt or shodan status so judo is more rounded then most people think or give it credit for check you freestyle judo.com its up and coming
@glock70 I'm VERY familiar with the Goshin Jutsu kata and the other kata of kodokan Judo. They aren't at all what I'm talking about. If you are referring to something else You're going to have to document it because I've never seen it. I'm curious to know what you actually know about how the Gracie's teach, given that the point you're now making assumes that YOU are extremely familiar with it.
Are you? Why don't you be more specific and demonstrate that.
@MrMZaccone yes I happen to know several Gracies students from carlson gracies camp in chicago and I have seen them roll MANY TIMES and I have seen their self defense which looks alot like karate or hapkido so what is your point, you talk about traditional arts not working what do you think GJJ self defence is the base IS JJ its traditional!
@glock70 So your experience is limited to that is it? You haven't seen anything. To see some of what I'm talking about check out the Gracie Combatives program. GJJ is traditional? That's a joke. They adapt and change it whenever necessary to fit new information. That's the definition of NON-TRADITIONAL. What's my point? Simple, Judo and GJJ are two different things in concept and application REGARDLESS of the catalog of techniques.
@MrMZaccone I can make the same comment about combat Judo which has strike and kicks and is updated with todays fighting styles ground and stand up what is your point Judo can be what ever you want it to be Just like any martial art and if GJJ was so great the miltiary & police would all but get rid of every martial art out there and keep GJJ as their base don't you think ? there is no superior art sorry and yes I take BJJ unofficially meaning I am not after a belt ranking
@glock70 "Combat Judo" isn't traditional Judo. If these things can be what ever you want them to be then you can call them what ever you want to call them and there's no sense in us even discussing the fucking subject. If there's no superior art then there's no inferior art and that's demonstrable bullshit. When you decide to make sense drop me a post. Until then, have fun with your double talk and nonsense.
@glock70 The guys you saw roll ... Did they roll with punches included? If they didn't then you didn't see ANY of what I'm talking about. I'm guessing they didn't or we wouldn't be arguing. At the Gracie Academy (r) they learn to defend punches from day one and eventually at a power and speed that matches reality. Judo does none of this. If I'm wrong, document it. YOU just saying it isn't enough. I can document everything I'm saying.
@MrMZaccone and as far as rolling with punches you can find those drills at any hybird style sorry once again GJJ is traditional now days as Karate MMA is the the GJJ
@MrMZaccone Dude get a clue your right the GJJ made every marital art in history oh yeah even the jjers on sherdog punked out your GJJ calling it nothing more then a belt factory look it for yourself since you need to read the proof your own BJJers made these comments so now what!
@glock70 Fuck Sherdog. If you haven't seen it you don't know what it is and you haven't and they haven't. Go learn something ... how about, anything. In any case keep making semantic arguments, it's all you're good for.
@MrMZaccone look you want everyone here to prove that Judo works in the street here is a story for you and you can look it up a chief of police from a little town called sleepy hollow IL has a confrontation with a neighbors son that is high on drugs the chief is off duty at the time , the crime takes place at his home the perp out weighs by at least a 100 lbs and out sizes the chief 2 to 3 feet the chief of police did throw a punch and the perp was not given the opportuntiy to throw a punch
@glock70 OK, first ... If you're going to refer someone to a newspaper article, you need to give them a date. Newspapers come out daily, Dumb Ass. Secondly, I never said traditional martial arts were useless. Some are more useful than others depending on how closely their training mimics reality. No art that derives that training predominantly from sportive competition and ancient kata is remotely street ready without a lot of luck and I'd rather be good than lucky any day.
@MrMZaccone your comment was they are not street ready when there a hundreds of stories of men and women taking Karate , Tkd , kick boxing , boxing and still be able to defend themselves from an attack and I am sure if you about get attacked you will not fall into KATA and sport martial arts is still a martial art and it can still be applied when needed I am sure a karateka will kick and punch and a boxer will still box if they have too.
@MrMZaccone because the chief of police took him down and submitted him now the perp got out a couple of times but the chief kept bringing him to gound and changing submissions until the perp was submitted now you can find the wholestory in the daily herald IL suburban or the courier news IL and the reason for this story the chief of police is a 3rd degree sandan in Judo now if you cant find this story I will be more then happy 2 send it to you .
@MrMZaccone Oh yeah I would like to see some proof that your GJJ is street ready all I have heard you do is talk ,show something documenting facts and please don't send the intro to GJJ that the military or police have inducted GJJ into thier MA program because the military and police still uses all traditonal MA as well, so these arts obviously work so how about a news clipping or a story I can look up like I provided you?
@glock70 As for proof of the effectiveness of GJJ, first I'm going to have to clear up misconception you obviously have. The Modern Army Combatives Program is almost entirely based on GJJ. Your contention that it's based on anything else is ignorant. I can introduce you to the founder and director of this program, Matt Larsen, I know him personally and trained with him at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, California in the late nineties. For more on Matt and the M.A.C.P. just search it.
@MrMZaccone really my sensi has been in the army for 25 years and I never heard him say once that army combatives program is based solely on GJJ Will let him know and have contact you on you tube and you can compare notes .
@glock70 When it comes to your instructor, I'm sure he's more than competent and a fine human being but when it comes to the M.A.C.P., who are you going to listen to, him or the guy who founded and now directs it? Try this on for size ... watch?v=DRLrgNcDQCc This was back when Matt and I were studying at the Academy in Torrance. Listen to what he says about reality and who his instructors are. Watch actual training and tell me what is looks like. Are you really going to keep arguing this?
@MrMZaccone for one why would my instructor knock it , he has an open mind to all MA he teaches a mix of karate , judo ,bjj,mauy thai, Aikido , boxing& wrestling and a military style of self defense this sounds like something he may agree with you on and as far as the phases its basic and something we practice every week so yes I get it,now as far as finishing a fight , I agree most TMA don't teach a student how to end a fight and that does need to change .
@glock70 Look, I think you wold be amazed at how much you and I and your instructor and the Gracies would agree if we can just get past semantics. I just get sick of people trying to shove GJJ into the same pigeon hole as some other martial at (mostly Judo) in an effort to make it disappear.
@MrMZaccone problem 1.Judoka have the same problems with BJJers trying to make Judo seem that it is out dated and ineffective problem 2. the truth is our history is for ever crossed and that cant be changed , have our arts grown in different directions yes I think all MA are starting too grow ,take a look at Karate some dojo's are now offering ground clinics to round out the art &some are having throwing & take down defense clinics to round out, what arts are these BJJ & JUDO .
@glock70 I leave you with this. Why? Why is it that everyone now recognizes the effectiveness of grappling? Why is it that Judo is experiencing a revival of its practical side when competition judo was all that could be found when I began studying it in the 70's? Why is it that Catch Wrestling, which was all but dead and gone is now being practiced again? NONE OF THIS was true before about 1993, I know, I was teaching MA even then. Why? I'll give you 3 guesses and 6 letters ... GRACIE!
@glock70 Now, having said that, Judo is a wonderful martial art to study but ... it does need updating in some of it's methodology to be street effective just as BJJ MUST avoid the sport methodlogies that have crept into it to achieve the same. "Without Judo, there would be no Gracie Jiu-Jitsu." Does that satisfy you? because the quote is from none other than Rorion Gracie himself, the current head of the Gracie family and ANY Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner who denies it is it deluded.
@MrMZaccone I looked it up and its sounds like Krav Maga , the mix of arts is BJJ MUAY THAI and Kali at least that what the article said is that what makes up GJJ?
@glock70 "With actual combat experience as a guide, Larsen designed a system with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as the technical base that was oriented to the needs of the Rangers". Did you read that part or are you just trying to ignore it? As for what makes up GJJ, when I studied at the academy I was taught not just grappling but a certain amount of striking to facilitate that. We also practiced escapes from multiple attackers at an advanced level. Believe what you want, they teach whatever works.
@glock70 In fact when I was given instruction in how to teach the Academy's introductory class, I was instructed to indicate exactly that. quote - " The fighting philosophy here at the Gracie Academy is Don't fight, but if you must fight, DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN THE FIGHT!" - end quote. As for the M.A.C.P. and what it contains ... Note: I said "almost entirely", you said "solely". You need to quit presenting strawman arguments and actually fucking listen.
@glock70 "The basic fight strategy that we teach is: close the distance, gain a dominant position, and finish the fight" - M.A.C.P. "Phase one - close the distance, Phase two - execute the takedown, Phase 3 - achieve the dominant position, Phase 4 - finish the fight." - Gracie Combatives. Gracie Combatives is what is now required for promotion to blue belt at the Academy in Torrance. How different do those sound to you? Never mind, I'm sure you'll just manage to ignore the facts ... AGAIN!
@glock70 Let me clear up what might be bothering you here. I'm not picking on Judo, it's a fine martial art, especially if it's tempered with some modernized realistic training and if the focus is on defending at all cost and not "rules". NOBODY EVER WINS A STREET FIGHT! All I'm saying is that without that modernization which is embraced heavily by the best practitioners of GJJ, it falls short, just as sport BJJ and every other art does that fails to grasp reality as tightly as possible.
@glock70 I'm assuming that only documented news articles will satisfy you (actually I don't think anything will, I don't believe that you're interested in facts) So I'm taking a bit of time to separate out only the documented cases that I have. Shouldn't take more than a day or two.
Judo was one of my base martial arts. Recently, I've been doing BJJ. Though I love Judo more, I'm learning to appreciate BJJ as well. Judo has helped alot where BJJ hasn't and vice-versa. The two styles compliment each other, and I'm just so thankful to have learned both.
that's what i'm saying ALL martial arts teach SOMETHING useful, it's just each one teaches different things. any serious MMA fighter should know at least two techniques i think.
as useful as muay thai knee kicks are in a clinch for example, you'd think EVERYONE would add them to their training, but they don't. it's a very simple technique... pull your opponent into your knee.
if all you know is GJJ, you're gonna have to take some hits against kung lee IF you can even take him down for example
@frostymourne They are not different arts ... they have different rules in competition. In Combat Judo, you can do EVERYTHING BJJ offers (leg locks, spinal locks, neck cranks, even some punches/kicking from Karate [see Judo kata]). In real life situations, emphasis of Judo is more vital as a self-defense than so called BJJ. In BJJ competition you get minutes to submit someone ... in Judo you get seconds (just like in a real life situation).
@pcjudosambo The real difference between the two is in the teaching method. When it comes to competition, neither competitive rule set has much bearing on what happens in the "real world". The real secret to each art is in the non-competitive techniques, The ones that ONLY apply to the street. Even MMA has changed so much on it's face that it doesn't reflect a "real" fight ... if it ever did.
@MrMZaccone I see your point but also, remember that in a street fight, things happen within seconds, there is a reason why IJF adapted such rules to Judo competitions, because they have done decades of research to make sure the tounreys are street real. That's why Wrestling & Sambo is similar (both require speed on the top and ground eg pinning or getting out of pins, etc). I am not saying BJJ is worse as an art, I am saying the competition rules are not street ready.
@pcjudosambo The IJF has done no such research that I'm aware of nor have they expressed any interest in such data. That's just a silly statement with no foundation. If it is true, explain the recent banning of Morote Gari and Kata Guruma in competition. The truth is, NO competition rules are street ready. If you think IJF rules are ... you're delusional.
@MrMZaccone they banned it for "safety research", which expires in 2012. Their website explains all of the rules, etc and why they implemented them. Some rules cannot be implemented in a competition because of safety but that does not mean it's not practiced in dojos. Example: BJJ does not allow heal hooks, groin attacks or neck cranks for belts below brown I think, while in Sambo, that's allowed and encouraged. IJF is not perfect but it's much more street effective than BJJ's organization.
@pcjudosambo They banned it because they were getting their asses kicked by wrestlers in their own tounaments. As far as BJJ rules are concerned, your statement also applies to BJJ. Don't think that because it's not practiced in tournaments that it's not trained in the Dojo. On that note I've never been to a Judo dojo that trained against puches and kicks. Doesn't mean there isn't one, just means I've never seen one. It has been alot of years since I stepped into a dedicated Judo school.
@MrMZaccone they banned it for safety research, which will expire in 2012, goto IJF and read it up. They will reinstate it after 2012, so I am not worried about that. My nephew is a Judoka and a Sambist and he has visited dozens of BJJ schools and one thing we noticed is that in those schools, very few train stand up because with "pulling guard" takedowns are not required in BJJ comp. BUT in Judo it's required to know standup as much as ground ... you can lose by both up & down techniques.
@pcjudosambo I've read it up, I don't believe a word of it. The only way I've ever been thrown hard by a Judoka is by trying hard not to be thrown. If you just sit down and sag you can almost always go to the ground safely with someone who wants to throw you. The irony of the whole thing is that this is the essence of Judo and Jiu-Jitsu. Guy wants me on the ground? OK, lets go there the easy way, his newaza better be top notch. All BJJ does is cut out the middle man.
@MrMZaccone well, once again we go back to the competitions and the rules. You can't just sit down (pull guard) in Judo, that's a shido (warning penalty) if you try to do some sort of a throw and fail and end up on the ground, different story. In Judo you win standing and on the ground .. in BJJ only on the ground. Lately, many Judokas are entering BJJ competitions and doing good while not alot of BJJ going to Judo because of more chances of losing (up or down).
@pcjudosambo You make no sense. You talk about street fights and then you talk about tournament rules. What exactly are you talking about? You jump from subject to subject like you have some malignant form of ADD. Sit down, take a breath, pick a point and stick with it, will you?
@MrMZaccone I can name a couple in IL mine being one of them check out team atlas they have a hybird style of Judo and tohkon heavy on Newaza and atemi waza so dojo's are mixing it up so like you said you havent seen a dojo that teaches atemi waza or blocks but it does not mean they are not out there and as far as wrestlers beating Judoka at their tourneys look up freestyle judo judoka go at it with bjjers & wrestlers in GI and NO GI tourneys
@glock70 I'm not talking about hybrid styles that just happen to still use the name "Judo". Obviously those could easily be closer to BJJ than they are to traditional Judo. Call that whatever you want but a traditional Judo instructor won't agree with you. My entire contention here is that all this pigeon hole, category, this is this and that is that stuff is just bullshit anyway. "Traditional" martial arts all have the same problem and that is ... Tradition isn't function, end of story.
@MrMZaccone dude have you ever been thrown with KATA Guruma Ouch ! morate gari is thought of as a cheap take down not my words ! I happen to like morote Gari I am a short guy so in a street fight it is my best friend , but morote there is nothing to it ,no work needed just shoot in and take down , and yes no ART is street ready but thats why you train so you have a fighters chance .
@glock70 Yes, I've been thrown with nearly every Judo throw you can name inlcuding kata guruma. I learned to sit and sag and HEY! no more throws. Bottom line? Morote Gari works. Nothing to it? Try getting it on a decent college wrestler who's got a good sprawl. No fun, trust me, you'll be lucky not to eat sidewalk. Leg takedowns used against someone who knows how to counter them become almost an art in itself.
@MrMZaccone type in sleepy hollow chief survives bear like attack suffers bites
then when your done reading the story you can type dundee park dist and find judo program it will list the sensi's once so what where you saying about traditional Judo ?
@glock70 Interestingly enough, the article in the Herald says absolutely ZERO about Judo. It also states that the attack continued until local police arrived and arrested the culprit. Sounds to me like your Judoka needed rescued.
@MrMZaccone yeah if he didnt have control he would have been laid out by the time the police got there, he had control of the fight thats why a 31 year man could not beat a 70 yr old man into the floor , try again , no were in that article does it say the perp had control IT STATES WRESTLING HIM TO THE GROUND ONLY TO HAVE HIM BREAK FREE AND RESTART THE STRUGGLE at 70yrs old taking a 31 yr old to ground Please most cops need back to hold 1 perp to begain with begin with .
hey guys, can anyone tell me the name of that throw? it just looked a little different since he rolled when they fell, pretty cool. was that an uchi-mata or somethin else?
@hatemosher601 Same reason Judo guys used to roll to their stomach. When I started studying that was the approved way to avoid the choke, roll to your stomach pull your collar up and wait for the ref. to stop the match. Competition without context poisons applicability.
@MrMZaccone by the way, rolling on the stomach to avoid chokes is one method that modern Judokas learn and personally I think that it's a really stupid technique to apply to avoid chokes. This is one of the techniques that's discouraged in BJJ competitions (giving back to your opponent) and I agree with BJJ on this one. Good thing Sport Sambo does not have this since they do not allow chokes thus giving the back is not an issue in that sport but against a well trained Judoka/BJJ artist = trouble
@hatemosher601 In BJJ tournament rules throws count for very little, unlike Judo where a clean one ends the match. I'll sit down before I let someone throw me. On the ground is where I'm safest anyway.
@mateah - To see some good examples of Judo throws being performed without a gi, watch Karo Parisyan's MMA fights. The reason Judo competitions end when a clean throw is performed is due to the fact that the old masters knew that a fight can be ended with a single throw. Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu are one in the same. They both come from the same tree which was the tree of Jujutsu. One developed as a throwing sport while the other developed as a grappling sport and each compliments the other.
@BuJitsu4life I must say, I give you a Hand in Applause, and a Thumbs up as well, but if I remember correctly all of this will fall under the "Judo" Tree. By history, if I remember correctly a Kodakon Judo Martial artist brought his work to Brazil and continue his work there, and it was named BJJ. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I am sure that this all falls under the "Judo" branch ;').
parisyan (along with kung lee) is one of my favorite MMA fighters and has the sickest throws & counters as well as superior takedown defense, but doesn't have the strongest ground game.
once a game goes to the ground, jiu jitsu is the strongest art
last i heard of karo, he was dropping out because of back problems, but his fights were always favorites. he was doing to BJJ fighters what royce gracie was doing to EVERYONE when MMA 1st started. his reversals & throws were a thing of beauty to watch. BJJ is effective, but boring as watching moss grow as a viewer.
that's why kung lee is my other favorite fighter. he beats the whizz out of opponents & keeps the fight away from jiu jitsu. i've never seen him taken down yet & OHKOs are awesome
@mateah - Read the history on Judo; you will learn that Kano developed the art to be a safe cultural practice by eliminating or tweaking the dangerous/deadly throws from the various styles of Jujutsu he had studied. In short, Kano developed Judo as a way to preserve a way of life. It was Kano's successors that eventually turned Judo into a sport. I agree that there are no "fight ending throws" practiced in Judo but that is because it is a sport. You would eventually run out of training partners.
If you're gonna fight a judo guy on his terms you gotta keep your back straight and don't hunch over. Otherwise you get thrown easy. Only thing I know that works well ( or well enough) against a judoka is using wrestling head/arm controls. Most judoka I've met don't like doublelegs , single legs or having their head pulled down. They don't train it as much as throws I guess. Its good to know and train both in my opinion though.
They don't grab legs anymore because the new rules forbids it. The IJF felt that they needed to protect the sport, because many olympic wrestlers and traditional wrestler from central asia were going to Judo competitions and defeating judokas, even tho they did no Judo and weren't doing any throws.
I am an excellent judokan. And I know i can get my but handed to me by a few of my friends who stay with BJJ. Saying one thing is better than another takes away the credit that is due to the person who studies, trains and excels in his field. I find it dissapointing that any true judokan would say that BJJ is "stupid" especially since it is Newaza.
man judo and bjj are the same, this guy just trains from the knees too much, the one thing i hate about bjj is they barely train standup
jitsuin 6 days ago
judo ne waza = bjj
abdullahabdulaziz1 1 week ago
lol at 01Proust. be more of a Judo homer. To be honest your statement is exactly opposite of the truth. While both Judo and BJJ are Martial Arts Judo is far and away more sport driven than BJJ. How do I know? I train and compete in both. Both are amazing arts, both are amazing martial arts, but to say that BJJ is pure sport and Judo is self defense is loltastic. I mean really dude, get in the dojo and learn something rather than spout off on an internet message board when you have no clue.
FloppyMcNutZ 3 weeks ago
Judo is still a self-defense system. On the street one powerful throw of a Judoka ends the fight. The ippon of Judo reflects reality. BJJ is a pure sport. Nobody can risk rolling on the ground in a self-defense situation. Judoka have perfect balance, nobody can throw them. BJJ fighters on the other hand lack balance and devastating throws. Judo and Sambo are true martial arts. Even on the ground under BJJ rules no BJJ world champion would defeat a Judo world champion because BJJ lacks power.
01Proust 1 month ago
I don't see why people keep arguing about BJJ and Judo, they use the same techniques, they just differ in tactics, in that BJJ evolved as more of a self defence form and didn't generally ban use of techniques, while Judo evolved as more of a sport
cerelilqt 1 month ago
every bjj tecniiques are found in judo because thats where it comes from . both arts are beautiful
lets cooperate instaed of bulliing each other. I have seen fights wher judokas shocks bjj guys , and opposite as well , so lets help each other.
maitrekano 2 months ago
Wow! There a lot of big talking Judokas on here. It's a shame you guys are all blind. Go and check out the video of rigan machado embarrassing black belt Judokas in a Judo comp one after the other. BJJ blue belts routinely demolish Judo black belts in competition as well. Keep dreaming Judokas! Modern day BJJ practitioners have it all over you!
gutts077 2 months ago
@gutts077 all that video shows is one of the best grapplers in the world (rigan) defeating a bunch of no-names in a local tournament. it doesnt prove that BJJ in general is better than judo, just that rigan was better than all the guys he faced in that tournament.
eamonob84 2 months ago
@gutts077 You do know the video you speak of is a local open judo tournament meaning low level Judoka he could of tried his hand at a E-level?and I am sure the results would be much different and the only place BBJ blue belts demolish judo is in BJJ tourneys you guys never get away with that in Judo tourneys so what does that prove?
glock70 2 months ago
@gutts077 Oh yeah a little history lesson you know the same thing happen to
Team Gracie Barra in Brazil" home of BJJ " the black belts there were all submitted by
a single Brazilian Judoka Named Ezequiel Paraguassu maybe you heard of the choke and the grip Ezekiel please note that this is not how he spelled his name.
glock70 2 months ago
get yo limb huggin ass...SLAM!
187BlackWolf 4 months ago
@steeeeker Helio being severely undersized compared to Kimura is another Gracie lie. Kimura (85 Kg) only outweighed Helio (80Kg) by 5 Kg. Today, that would make Helio a welterweight a Kimura a middleweight. As for sport Judo not having a technical ground game, that's true. But traditional Judokas are more than a match for BJJ'ers. Look up Tsunetane Oda (Jigoro Kano's personal choice to develop judo newaza) and his Kosen judokas. Oda was absolute perfection on the ground.
BloodofPatriots 9 months ago 11
@BloodofPatriots That is were alot Jit player get this Idea in their head that Judo has no ground game there is a difference between sport Judo which you see in these Judo vs BJJ vids and Traditional Judo which studies ground alot more because they have no goal to go to the olympics or compete for that matter
glock70 7 months ago
@glock70 Absolutely true. Master Tsunetane Oda's knowledge of newaza made the gracies look like mere children wrestling in the dirt. Oda didn't make the mistake of separating newaza from tachiwaza as BJJ'ers do today. Instead, his newaza flowed from tachiwaza. The man was absolute Judo perfection.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@steeeeker First, a brown belt after 9 years? Someone's lying. As for judo not being known for its ground game, you mistake sport judo for traditional judo. Trust this old traditional judoka, you tangle with me on the ground and you'll soon realize why Kimura snapped Helio's arm like a twig.
BloodofPatriots 9 months ago 3
@steeeeker - and then you stand up with him, and it looks like the video above.
fourfif 9 months ago
It would have been more interesting if it was a kosen judo guy.
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9 then it would just be a regular BJJ match. kosen judo and bjj don't have that much differences, in fact they are almost exactly the same
RacoonBurglar 6 months ago
@Jason66601 lol i know right?
asian714cali 10 months ago
@steeeeker and all the hater who hate on the oriental martial arts seem to forgot that bjj is still consider oriental becz many technique are base off of jjj and judo which helios use to adapt into gjj..as well as most of the non-oriental martial arts and fighting stlye nowadays which is all base off of the oreintal and almos all of its move is still oreintal created moves that non asian use to put into another form with another name..but really they are alll oriental style
asian714cali 10 months ago
I don't think that a guy practicing BBJ only 6 months could defeat a Black Belt Judo who had to train at least 4 years. Besides a more effective and lethal martial art is Krav Maga, all the soldiers and mossad agents from israel are master. What would you do if I a guy punched your throat and broken your neck?
xavros 10 months ago
@xavros I would tap
ms1454 10 months ago
@xavros great comment! most bjj students (especially some 6 month white belt) know about is the wimpy tap stuff anyway...also because MMA has gotten the martial arts so away from the real world. plus there is also a diffeence in getting someone to tap and actually going through with the break in a real life situation
anphon77 9 months ago
@xavros well...don't let him punch your throat and broke your neck, you have to be fast, especially if you practice judo or bjj
Romaniandick1994 7 months ago
@Romaniandick1994 Israel army and Mossad agents uses Krav Maga that it was developed to fight several fighters, It's true you must be faster but WHY don't Israel Army and MOSSAD agents pratice BJJ? because it's too much better Krav Maga even Karate Do Shoto Kan with only one punch or kick can knock out anyone, if you are focus in only one fighter in several situations you will be hurt or dead, most of the times are more than one fighter. Besides BJJ is an sport not a Artial Mart
xavros 7 months ago
if you watn improve your newaza do BBJJ if you want to improve your thorwings do judo...
rafaelmiqui 10 months ago
A BJJ black belt would STILL get his ass kicked!
TimRombauts 11 months ago
Well you got to take into account that the BJJ guy is just a blue belt. I love to see to black belts go at it.........
Shaunton1 11 months ago
@Shaunton1 ur a fkn retard...bjj will ALWAYS get their ass kicked with judo rules, cuz there is no jump guard bullshit and bjj guys suck on standing and judo is the best standing martial art so get over it
MrChickenFajita 11 months ago
@MrChickenFajita you are an idiot!.....Do you train?...I have blackbelt in Jujitsu and judo. They are both good arts...You need to hit the gym and stop be an internet tuff guy.
Shaunton1 11 months ago 8
@Shaunton1 yes man i train, and im not an idiot, if u really have a blackbelt in both you would know that what i said is true. BJJ guys are awesome on the ground but ok standing. Judo guys are awesome on their feet and ok on the ground. this is FACTUAL its just how they train. a BJJ guy will ALWAYS lose to a judo guy with judo rules cuz they cant just jump guard and put on a submission, the judo guy will simply grab them and throw them like a rag doll. BJJ rules the bjj guy would probably win
MrChickenFajita 11 months ago
@MrChickenFajita Can we see some of your videos?
bakorexer 11 months ago
I love seeing the real Judo Fighters kick the BJJ guys ass.
romansoldierofhonor 11 months ago 3
Típico, el de Bjj quiere hacer un ko soto gari y se come un uchi mata. Soy naranja en judo, el otro día cuando un azul de Bjj me quiso hacer un ko soto gari lo lancé con un sumi gaeshi quedando después arriba suyo, en retención. Ah, haciendo newaza también mantuve una posición dominante e intenté ir al ude garami o el sode guruma shime, pero realmente, tenía recursos muy interesantes.
fedesax73 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Judo has the same submission moves as Jiu Jitsu. What's different now:
BJJ has leg locks and spine submissions like neck cranks. Most Judo trainer won't teach you that. Jiu Jitsu also focuses more on escapes (when in the guard, for example)
Judo puts the focus on throwing and pinning your opponent on the ground. Again It has almost the same exact submission moves has BJJ, but focuses more on the control of the opponent.
I think Judo is better for real life situations, my opinion.
Thewiseguitar 1 year ago 6
@Thewiseguitar well just like TKD and karate. judo was a lot more dangerous back then but now because of the olympics they had to change the aggressiveness of these MA
garra98 1 year ago
@Thewiseguitar why the fuck is this comment spam? its so true
MrChickenFajita 11 months ago
wow, im reallyy suprised about how many people fight over a video, and whats funny is their all probally fat lazy slops that can type about 10 wpm, lol just wow
- Judo Blackbelt, Zouhair.
WaTuPMeTuBe21 1 year ago
what i've been trying to say is that bJJ Gracie Ju Jitsu isn't proper Ju Jitsu, it's a Judo based system that has concentrated on the takedown into submission techniques for UFC and MMA competition. It is a sport that doesnt prepare you as much for the various possibilities of attacks on a street. It has it's value and i always rooted for Royce Gracie in UFC, but i'm not into competition at all I test my skills in a different way. Sparring is not necessarily the route to success in martial arts
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy your comments actually point out your lack of knowledge in BJJ. or judo for that matter. the fact that you believe all BJJ and Judo guys have the go to the ground mindset shows that. id much rather take the man down with a uchi mata takedown.stomp him and move on. as i mention. alot of classical Jiujutsu focus on fine motor movement. where asJudo sambo, and BJJ focus on gross motor movement. the difference is fine motor movement is VERY difficult to do against fully resistant people
pedro90 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy just because it isn't japanese doesnt mean its somehow improper. especially since Judo came from classical jiujitsu. what i find funny is that so many people who do traditional martial arts are quick to call MMA and its surrounding systems( boxing, thai, BJJ) sport fighting, and thus not street wise. yet if you ever see a street fight. those are the exact same attacks being done. all of them allow you to use all moves against an opponent as much as you can. no too dangerous BS.
pedro90 1 year ago
@pedro90 I tell u the exact reason i'm criticizing BJJ & MMA is the ego and sheer over-self confidence alot of the practitioners have. Believe in what u do by all means but question it too as that's the way it develops. We have police and military clubs in my style too. It seems they are just people as well who have personal preferences. When i see BJJ doing knife & weapon defences as an integral part of the syllabus then i'll shut up.
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy watch?v=qNEZS_wBFt8
now you can shutup :)
pedro90 1 year ago
@pedro90 Yeah, i've seen this before.....that's just a very small part of their current syllabus if at all.
Real Ju jitsu mate:
watch?v=-rQYB_EzWOg
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy nice video. however very few differnet techniques then from BJJ. or even judo. only techniques not done are the wrist locks. which not even students were doing in the application. however sparring os still going to be the main tool to teach you the skill. seeing as its the closest to the real thing. just like you'd never claim to be an amazing swimmer without getting in a pool. you can't be good martial artist without sparring and lots of it.also watch?v=Aeg926nPCGQ
thats my jiujutsu
pedro90 1 year ago
@pedro90 Stop putting words into my mouth....I used to train in Judo as a Kid. We also do Judo Randori and ne waza in Ju Jitsu as an integral aspect of training and we do the Kodokan version of the Nage No Kata.. in other words we value it for. However sparring isn't the only way of pressure testing techniques. As for the fine motor movement argument, we do both and use atemi strikes to distract or weaken opponent into being able to apply locks and as entry into other techniques.
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@pedro90 Continued..try this...when ur struggling to get a JuJi Gatame on an opponent and he's not allowing u to get it on, give him a slap to the nuts or face, watch how u divert attention away from his arm for a second allowing u to get the armbar on. 1 of the purposes of striking in Ju Jitsu. I swear Ju Jitsu works cos i have defended myself with it on several occasions. Of course it's a progressive martial art and takes a long time to master the techniques.
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy p.s. i have no problem with strikes in jiujitsu. my problem was you saying its not a viable art simply because alot of people do it for competition. so what, there are alot of Karate competitions. yet it is also for self defense. there are also many schools that don't teach weapons work. doesn't mean there not self defense either.
pedro90 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy if you don't believe that the gracies promote there system as self defense first, then go to there youtube channel. and if your still not convinced thats streetwise, then go tell that to your local Army recruiter. seeing as the MMA repituar is the exact same thing being taught to soldiers both US and growing in UK. with the inclusion of proper weapons work of course. the point is. it works. it is effective. as long as you know what moves to leave in the ring, and what to do on street
pedro90 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy there are many martial art systems that also highly promote competition. are you gonna now call olympic gold medalists in Karate sport fighters too? yes there is indeed sport BJJ with techniues only sutable for sport. just as in TKD and karate. at the same time many moves are not for sport and are for self defense. but you have to actually train in it to know,. not just look at vids online or what you see in UFC . bjj and judo are also the primary arts taught to police. they work.
pedro90 1 year ago
the bjj guy looks ridiculous
mustafaupk 1 year ago
Royce graci (judo black belt) Renzo gracie (judo black belt ) Saulo Ribero (judo black belt) Xande Ribero (Judo Black belt) Kron Graci(judo black belt) . The thing to rember is Judo and bjj are the oposite sides of the same coin .The rules of both games dictates the attributes of each art . Judo ,throws Bjj gound work. PLAY BOTH !!!!!
razor84man 1 year ago
@razor84man not to mention both actually teach alot of the same moves, just one emphasizes different areas. Judo guys know groundfighting but sport makes them focus on the throws. bjj knows throws but sport makes them focus on submissions. both with serve well in a street fight.
pedro90 1 year ago
@pedro90 not aginst a good puncher or against weapons or multiple attacjers....shall i go on. real Ju Jitsu is wot u need....not dissing Judo though it is a sport like BJJ but better.
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy sure you can i have debated this topic before. a grappler with the intent to close the distance and clinch/takedown usually comes out on top. watch in gracie challenge video for that. the fact that you have to get into clinch range to punch to begin with all ready puts you at a disadvantage. weapons is a matter of simply disarming the opponent. and as for multiple attackers- get your ass out of there ASAP is the most logical solution. the fact that you are outnumbered is bad enough.
pedro90 1 year ago
@pedro90 Mate ur missing the point....Gracie Ju Jitsu is a sport and they say so themselves. It is good if u train for self defense, in which case i would say avoid going to the ground as little as possible. In reality concrete is an unforgiving surface. The fact is that you can rarely do Ju Jitsu's full arsenal of techniques in a competition because it's all designed to seriously incapacitate someone hence the plethora of rules. i'll send u alink of similar to what i do so u can have a look.
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy no they don't. the gracies have marketed BJJ as self defense since the day it bursted onto the scene. #2 your logic is highly flawed. less sparring doesnt make you better it will indeed make you worse. regardless of what your system may think. if your gonna be attacked, the only way to get used to how you will actually handle it is by being attacked by someone who is trying there best to thwart and hurt you. BJJ and Judo do just that. free sparring with as much force as youd like.
pedro90 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy and if by "real" jiujitsu you mean classical jiujutsu a fundamental problem with them is to many techniques are never sparred with or used against a live resistant opponent in sparring like matter. so your brain doesn't register them as instinct. judo and BJJ guys sparr full resistant all the time. also classical jiu jitsu focus alot on small joint manipulation and fine motor movement-very difficult to pull off. where as Judo and BJJ use gross motor movement- much safer and easier
pedro90 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pedro90 Ju Jitsu is a progressive martial art, i e you have to learn the movements first and start applying them the higher up you get in a much more robust manner, moving from one to another. sure the Classical Ju Jitsu styes don't spar as such, but in my style we do judo Randori & groundwork and the higher you get the more they throw at you. The point is to deal with an attacker quickly and move to the next one using positioning, evasion and psychology. We use strikes as entry techniques.
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@mrdubcrazy the whole mutliple opponent argument is frankly a straw man argument and there is no system that will give you techniques to deal with being jumped by 8 full grown men. some strategies may work like constant movement but again its not a solution. Evasion is the best choice. judo and BJJ are martial arts, not just a sport. if they were ,are millitary wouldn't train in it for hand to hand combat. shall i go on?
pedro90 1 year ago
It's black vs blue. It's like math college student go against elementary student, doing math problem.
emanresu81 1 year ago
bjj and judo are good
The101Tricks 1 year ago
yay judo. i practice judo in okinawa.
elijahtakushi 1 year ago
I do Judo. It's always seemed a bit dumb for BJJ to be all about the ground but useless at getting people there. Although I'd totally loose on the ground to one of you bjj guys...doubt most of you little dudes would have an easy time getting me on the ground though.
RasAlGhul4000 1 year ago
@RasAlGhul4000 actually those of us who study bjj in a mma format can apply most if not all submissions from the stand up
2ndAshycole94 1 year ago
you cant bash either of these styles, all I know from experience is a trained extensively in both of them and it completed my total fight game. Since I am trained in both, I made a smooth transition into sambo which is a fun style to train in.
bubbaroy73 1 year ago
So is Judo the weakness of BJJ?
SonicPAJ 1 year ago
@SonicPAJ What do you mean weakness of BJJ? Meaning, is Judo the only art to stabilize BJJ? If that's what you mean than yes and no. Each art favors itself in its own competition and only a few good artists cross train and cross compete thus becoming the ultimate artists (Aoki, Fedor, Werdum, Mochado brothers). All of those that I listed train and compete in different arts and are champions as well... thus they are more deadly than others who don't cross-compete.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo I like the idea of mixing techniques. But I mostly train for self defense,not tournament fighting.
SonicPAJ 1 year ago
@SonicPAJ I agree with what you are saying, the sambo school I train in has a motto, "combat 1st, competetion 2nd"
bubbaroy73 1 year ago
@bubbaroy73 May I ask what is Sambo?
SonicPAJ 1 year ago
@SonicPAJ sambo is a russian style which was developed by a russian judoka. It involves alot of judo, wrestling, jujitsu and strikes. It is fun to train in.
bubbaroy73 1 year ago
@bubbaroy73 Do you know where I can find some basic training info on sambo?
SonicPAJ 1 year ago
@SonicPAJ you can look up sambo techniques on here, youtube has alot of sambo clips. great stuff.
bubbaroy73 1 year ago
@bubbaroy73 Alright Thanks.
SonicPAJ 1 year ago
Yeah, Judo guy wins under Judo rules ... that's really telling, huh?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
judo and bjj are basically the same thing except in competitions, judo emphasis more on throwing and bjj emphasize on ground control and submission. But overall, technique wise, and work-out wise, judo and bjj share almost all of the throwing and submission techniques
moonerjamerson 1 year ago
why don't people understand that there are very few differences between judo and bjj? Judo is Jujutsu that Jigoro Kano modified for sport. Bjj is Judo that was modified for smaller people to utilize. i prefer judo but to each their own. Judo has plenty of ground grapplingmoves and Bjj has throws.
VegaManX7 1 year ago
bjj was invented by a judoka.
stevensauri 1 year ago
@stevensauri LOL! that's gotta be the stupidest statement I've heard in I don't know how long! Yeah, and Judo was invented by a Jujutsuka. Let's go 'round in circles about that one again, shall we? Most Judo and wrestling moves can be seen in paintings as early as ancient Egyptian tombs. Og the caveman probably had a couple throws in his bag of tricks ruling over the clan of the cave bear. The stuff is what it is. Keep it in context, cross-train where useful and work hard. STFU and train.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone thats not a statement thats a fact idiot
stevensauri 1 year ago
@stevensauri Could it be a statement of fact? LOL! I got an Idea, let's label everything so nobody can ever get credit for anything, sound good to you? So, who's this Judoka you're talking about who "invented" BJJ? Who knows, I might even agree with you. It's still a dumbshit thing to say because it's either the most obvious truth possible or it's complete bullshit. In any case it appears to be an attempt to denegrate BJJ. Judo was also invented by a Jujutsuka ... comment?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone mitsuyo maede or conde koma "count of war" this name was given to him by brazilians he was sent to brazil to teach Judo and he was a Judoka from Kodokan ryu and one of Jigoro Kano prize students and yes Judo came from Jujitsu a mix of jujitsu styles tenjin shinyo ryu, sekiguchi ryu ,seigo ryu and just as the gracies did Kano sent out students all across the globe to pitch Judo against other arts and did very well but all in all the arts are one of the same .
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 The arts have virtually the same catalog of techniques but are applied in entirely different ways. There are also methodologies, such as the "punch block" version of the guard (do-osae in Judo) that are not, as far as I have seen, present in traditional Judo at all.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone have you ever heard of Kodokan Goshin Jutsu?
most people outside of judo have know idea what that is, it is the forms of self defense against unarmed and armed attacks which include strikes , punches , kicks all the atemi waza that people claim judo does not have ,much like the way the gracies teach GJJ just in judo you start at black belt or shodan status so judo is more rounded then most people think or give it credit for check you freestyle judo.com its up and coming
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 I'm VERY familiar with the Goshin Jutsu kata and the other kata of kodokan Judo. They aren't at all what I'm talking about. If you are referring to something else You're going to have to document it because I've never seen it. I'm curious to know what you actually know about how the Gracie's teach, given that the point you're now making assumes that YOU are extremely familiar with it.
Are you? Why don't you be more specific and demonstrate that.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone yes I happen to know several Gracies students from carlson gracies camp in chicago and I have seen them roll MANY TIMES and I have seen their self defense which looks alot like karate or hapkido so what is your point, you talk about traditional arts not working what do you think GJJ self defence is the base IS JJ its traditional!
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 So your experience is limited to that is it? You haven't seen anything. To see some of what I'm talking about check out the Gracie Combatives program. GJJ is traditional? That's a joke. They adapt and change it whenever necessary to fit new information. That's the definition of NON-TRADITIONAL. What's my point? Simple, Judo and GJJ are two different things in concept and application REGARDLESS of the catalog of techniques.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone I can make the same comment about combat Judo which has strike and kicks and is updated with todays fighting styles ground and stand up what is your point Judo can be what ever you want it to be Just like any martial art and if GJJ was so great the miltiary & police would all but get rid of every martial art out there and keep GJJ as their base don't you think ? there is no superior art sorry and yes I take BJJ unofficially meaning I am not after a belt ranking
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 "Combat Judo" isn't traditional Judo. If these things can be what ever you want them to be then you can call them what ever you want to call them and there's no sense in us even discussing the fucking subject. If there's no superior art then there's no inferior art and that's demonstrable bullshit. When you decide to make sense drop me a post. Until then, have fun with your double talk and nonsense.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@glock70 The guys you saw roll ... Did they roll with punches included? If they didn't then you didn't see ANY of what I'm talking about. I'm guessing they didn't or we wouldn't be arguing. At the Gracie Academy (r) they learn to defend punches from day one and eventually at a power and speed that matches reality. Judo does none of this. If I'm wrong, document it. YOU just saying it isn't enough. I can document everything I'm saying.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone and as far as rolling with punches you can find those drills at any hybird style sorry once again GJJ is traditional now days as Karate MMA is the the GJJ
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 And where do you think those drills came from?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone Dude get a clue your right the GJJ made every marital art in history oh yeah even the jjers on sherdog punked out your GJJ calling it nothing more then a belt factory look it for yourself since you need to read the proof your own BJJers made these comments so now what!
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 Fuck Sherdog. If you haven't seen it you don't know what it is and you haven't and they haven't. Go learn something ... how about, anything. In any case keep making semantic arguments, it's all you're good for.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone look you want everyone here to prove that Judo works in the street here is a story for you and you can look it up a chief of police from a little town called sleepy hollow IL has a confrontation with a neighbors son that is high on drugs the chief is off duty at the time , the crime takes place at his home the perp out weighs by at least a 100 lbs and out sizes the chief 2 to 3 feet the chief of police did throw a punch and the perp was not given the opportuntiy to throw a punch
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 OK, first ... If you're going to refer someone to a newspaper article, you need to give them a date. Newspapers come out daily, Dumb Ass. Secondly, I never said traditional martial arts were useless. Some are more useful than others depending on how closely their training mimics reality. No art that derives that training predominantly from sportive competition and ancient kata is remotely street ready without a lot of luck and I'd rather be good than lucky any day.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone your comment was they are not street ready when there a hundreds of stories of men and women taking Karate , Tkd , kick boxing , boxing and still be able to defend themselves from an attack and I am sure if you about get attacked you will not fall into KATA and sport martial arts is still a martial art and it can still be applied when needed I am sure a karateka will kick and punch and a boxer will still box if they have too.
glock70 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone because the chief of police took him down and submitted him now the perp got out a couple of times but the chief kept bringing him to gound and changing submissions until the perp was submitted now you can find the wholestory in the daily herald IL suburban or the courier news IL and the reason for this story the chief of police is a 3rd degree sandan in Judo now if you cant find this story I will be more then happy 2 send it to you .
glock70 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone Oh yeah I would like to see some proof that your GJJ is street ready all I have heard you do is talk ,show something documenting facts and please don't send the intro to GJJ that the military or police have inducted GJJ into thier MA program because the military and police still uses all traditonal MA as well, so these arts obviously work so how about a news clipping or a story I can look up like I provided you?
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 As for proof of the effectiveness of GJJ, first I'm going to have to clear up misconception you obviously have. The Modern Army Combatives Program is almost entirely based on GJJ. Your contention that it's based on anything else is ignorant. I can introduce you to the founder and director of this program, Matt Larsen, I know him personally and trained with him at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, California in the late nineties. For more on Matt and the M.A.C.P. just search it.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone really my sensi has been in the army for 25 years and I never heard him say once that army combatives program is based solely on GJJ Will let him know and have contact you on you tube and you can compare notes .
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 When it comes to your instructor, I'm sure he's more than competent and a fine human being but when it comes to the M.A.C.P., who are you going to listen to, him or the guy who founded and now directs it? Try this on for size ... watch?v=DRLrgNcDQCc This was back when Matt and I were studying at the Academy in Torrance. Listen to what he says about reality and who his instructors are. Watch actual training and tell me what is looks like. Are you really going to keep arguing this?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone for one why would my instructor knock it , he has an open mind to all MA he teaches a mix of karate , judo ,bjj,mauy thai, Aikido , boxing& wrestling and a military style of self defense this sounds like something he may agree with you on and as far as the phases its basic and something we practice every week so yes I get it,now as far as finishing a fight , I agree most TMA don't teach a student how to end a fight and that does need to change .
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 Look, I think you wold be amazed at how much you and I and your instructor and the Gracies would agree if we can just get past semantics. I just get sick of people trying to shove GJJ into the same pigeon hole as some other martial at (mostly Judo) in an effort to make it disappear.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone problem 1.Judoka have the same problems with BJJers trying to make Judo seem that it is out dated and ineffective problem 2. the truth is our history is for ever crossed and that cant be changed , have our arts grown in different directions yes I think all MA are starting too grow ,take a look at Karate some dojo's are now offering ground clinics to round out the art &some are having throwing & take down defense clinics to round out, what arts are these BJJ & JUDO .
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 I leave you with this. Why? Why is it that everyone now recognizes the effectiveness of grappling? Why is it that Judo is experiencing a revival of its practical side when competition judo was all that could be found when I began studying it in the 70's? Why is it that Catch Wrestling, which was all but dead and gone is now being practiced again? NONE OF THIS was true before about 1993, I know, I was teaching MA even then. Why? I'll give you 3 guesses and 6 letters ... GRACIE!
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@glock70 Now, having said that, Judo is a wonderful martial art to study but ... it does need updating in some of it's methodology to be street effective just as BJJ MUST avoid the sport methodlogies that have crept into it to achieve the same. "Without Judo, there would be no Gracie Jiu-Jitsu." Does that satisfy you? because the quote is from none other than Rorion Gracie himself, the current head of the Gracie family and ANY Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner who denies it is it deluded.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone I looked it up and its sounds like Krav Maga , the mix of arts is BJJ MUAY THAI and Kali at least that what the article said is that what makes up GJJ?
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 "With actual combat experience as a guide, Larsen designed a system with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as the technical base that was oriented to the needs of the Rangers". Did you read that part or are you just trying to ignore it? As for what makes up GJJ, when I studied at the academy I was taught not just grappling but a certain amount of striking to facilitate that. We also practiced escapes from multiple attackers at an advanced level. Believe what you want, they teach whatever works.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@glock70 In fact when I was given instruction in how to teach the Academy's introductory class, I was instructed to indicate exactly that. quote - " The fighting philosophy here at the Gracie Academy is Don't fight, but if you must fight, DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN THE FIGHT!" - end quote. As for the M.A.C.P. and what it contains ... Note: I said "almost entirely", you said "solely". You need to quit presenting strawman arguments and actually fucking listen.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@glock70 "The basic fight strategy that we teach is: close the distance, gain a dominant position, and finish the fight" - M.A.C.P. "Phase one - close the distance, Phase two - execute the takedown, Phase 3 - achieve the dominant position, Phase 4 - finish the fight." - Gracie Combatives. Gracie Combatives is what is now required for promotion to blue belt at the Academy in Torrance. How different do those sound to you? Never mind, I'm sure you'll just manage to ignore the facts ... AGAIN!
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@glock70 Let me clear up what might be bothering you here. I'm not picking on Judo, it's a fine martial art, especially if it's tempered with some modernized realistic training and if the focus is on defending at all cost and not "rules". NOBODY EVER WINS A STREET FIGHT! All I'm saying is that without that modernization which is embraced heavily by the best practitioners of GJJ, it falls short, just as sport BJJ and every other art does that fails to grasp reality as tightly as possible.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@glock70 I'm assuming that only documented news articles will satisfy you (actually I don't think anything will, I don't believe that you're interested in facts) So I'm taking a bit of time to separate out only the documented cases that I have. Shouldn't take more than a day or two.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
I train judo. I think that both sports are equally good and it all depends on human practices.
vrata78 1 year ago
i think bjj is better than judo.
bjj has a much bigger pensum.
BluePittbull666 1 year ago
Uchi Mata for the win!
co05 1 year ago
Judo was one of my base martial arts. Recently, I've been doing BJJ. Though I love Judo more, I'm learning to appreciate BJJ as well. Judo has helped alot where BJJ hasn't and vice-versa. The two styles compliment each other, and I'm just so thankful to have learned both.
AznInvazn69Theory 1 year ago
that's what i'm saying ALL martial arts teach SOMETHING useful, it's just each one teaches different things. any serious MMA fighter should know at least two techniques i think.
as useful as muay thai knee kicks are in a clinch for example, you'd think EVERYONE would add them to their training, but they don't. it's a very simple technique... pull your opponent into your knee.
if all you know is GJJ, you're gonna have to take some hits against kung lee IF you can even take him down for example
djgambitron 1 year ago
BJJ comes from kano Jujitsu which was Judo. Maeda from kodokan came to brazil and taught the Gracies Judo. Gracie's change the system and create BJJ.
Both martial arts are closely related, different in their own ways and effective. But dont get the history wrong thanks.
frostymourne 1 year ago
@frostymourne They are not different arts ... they have different rules in competition. In Combat Judo, you can do EVERYTHING BJJ offers (leg locks, spinal locks, neck cranks, even some punches/kicking from Karate [see Judo kata]). In real life situations, emphasis of Judo is more vital as a self-defense than so called BJJ. In BJJ competition you get minutes to submit someone ... in Judo you get seconds (just like in a real life situation).
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo The real difference between the two is in the teaching method. When it comes to competition, neither competitive rule set has much bearing on what happens in the "real world". The real secret to each art is in the non-competitive techniques, The ones that ONLY apply to the street. Even MMA has changed so much on it's face that it doesn't reflect a "real" fight ... if it ever did.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone I see your point but also, remember that in a street fight, things happen within seconds, there is a reason why IJF adapted such rules to Judo competitions, because they have done decades of research to make sure the tounreys are street real. That's why Wrestling & Sambo is similar (both require speed on the top and ground eg pinning or getting out of pins, etc). I am not saying BJJ is worse as an art, I am saying the competition rules are not street ready.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo The IJF has done no such research that I'm aware of nor have they expressed any interest in such data. That's just a silly statement with no foundation. If it is true, explain the recent banning of Morote Gari and Kata Guruma in competition. The truth is, NO competition rules are street ready. If you think IJF rules are ... you're delusional.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone they banned it for "safety research", which expires in 2012. Their website explains all of the rules, etc and why they implemented them. Some rules cannot be implemented in a competition because of safety but that does not mean it's not practiced in dojos. Example: BJJ does not allow heal hooks, groin attacks or neck cranks for belts below brown I think, while in Sambo, that's allowed and encouraged. IJF is not perfect but it's much more street effective than BJJ's organization.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo They banned it because they were getting their asses kicked by wrestlers in their own tounaments. As far as BJJ rules are concerned, your statement also applies to BJJ. Don't think that because it's not practiced in tournaments that it's not trained in the Dojo. On that note I've never been to a Judo dojo that trained against puches and kicks. Doesn't mean there isn't one, just means I've never seen one. It has been alot of years since I stepped into a dedicated Judo school.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone they banned it for safety research, which will expire in 2012, goto IJF and read it up. They will reinstate it after 2012, so I am not worried about that. My nephew is a Judoka and a Sambist and he has visited dozens of BJJ schools and one thing we noticed is that in those schools, very few train stand up because with "pulling guard" takedowns are not required in BJJ comp. BUT in Judo it's required to know standup as much as ground ... you can lose by both up & down techniques.
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo I've read it up, I don't believe a word of it. The only way I've ever been thrown hard by a Judoka is by trying hard not to be thrown. If you just sit down and sag you can almost always go to the ground safely with someone who wants to throw you. The irony of the whole thing is that this is the essence of Judo and Jiu-Jitsu. Guy wants me on the ground? OK, lets go there the easy way, his newaza better be top notch. All BJJ does is cut out the middle man.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone well, once again we go back to the competitions and the rules. You can't just sit down (pull guard) in Judo, that's a shido (warning penalty) if you try to do some sort of a throw and fail and end up on the ground, different story. In Judo you win standing and on the ground .. in BJJ only on the ground. Lately, many Judokas are entering BJJ competitions and doing good while not alot of BJJ going to Judo because of more chances of losing (up or down).
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo You make no sense. You talk about street fights and then you talk about tournament rules. What exactly are you talking about? You jump from subject to subject like you have some malignant form of ADD. Sit down, take a breath, pick a point and stick with it, will you?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone i was saying that Judo's competition is more street realistic than BJJ simply because of the nature of it
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo That's nonsense. Neither one is very realistic at all.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone I can name a couple in IL mine being one of them check out team atlas they have a hybird style of Judo and tohkon heavy on Newaza and atemi waza so dojo's are mixing it up so like you said you havent seen a dojo that teaches atemi waza or blocks but it does not mean they are not out there and as far as wrestlers beating Judoka at their tourneys look up freestyle judo judoka go at it with bjjers & wrestlers in GI and NO GI tourneys
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 I'm not talking about hybrid styles that just happen to still use the name "Judo". Obviously those could easily be closer to BJJ than they are to traditional Judo. Call that whatever you want but a traditional Judo instructor won't agree with you. My entire contention here is that all this pigeon hole, category, this is this and that is that stuff is just bullshit anyway. "Traditional" martial arts all have the same problem and that is ... Tradition isn't function, end of story.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone dude have you ever been thrown with KATA Guruma Ouch ! morate gari is thought of as a cheap take down not my words ! I happen to like morote Gari I am a short guy so in a street fight it is my best friend , but morote there is nothing to it ,no work needed just shoot in and take down , and yes no ART is street ready but thats why you train so you have a fighters chance .
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 Yes, I've been thrown with nearly every Judo throw you can name inlcuding kata guruma. I learned to sit and sag and HEY! no more throws. Bottom line? Morote Gari works. Nothing to it? Try getting it on a decent college wrestler who's got a good sprawl. No fun, trust me, you'll be lucky not to eat sidewalk. Leg takedowns used against someone who knows how to counter them become almost an art in itself.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone we do sprawl in judo and in fight you sag I knee strike and look for top position
glock70 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone type in sleepy hollow chief survives bear like attack suffers bites
then when your done reading the story you can type dundee park dist and find judo program it will list the sensi's once so what where you saying about traditional Judo ?
glock70 1 year ago
@glock70 Interestingly enough, the article in the Herald says absolutely ZERO about Judo. It also states that the attack continued until local police arrived and arrested the culprit. Sounds to me like your Judoka needed rescued.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone yeah if he didnt have control he would have been laid out by the time the police got there, he had control of the fight thats why a 31 year man could not beat a 70 yr old man into the floor , try again , no were in that article does it say the perp had control IT STATES WRESTLING HIM TO THE GROUND ONLY TO HAVE HIM BREAK FREE AND RESTART THE STRUGGLE at 70yrs old taking a 31 yr old to ground Please most cops need back to hold 1 perp to begain with begin with .
glock70 1 year ago
hey guys, can anyone tell me the name of that throw? it just looked a little different since he rolled when they fell, pretty cool. was that an uchi-mata or somethin else?
dormantninja 1 year ago
@dormantninja uchimata
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@dormantninja uchimata
elijahtakushi 1 year ago
Why do bjj guys always lean over. Your just asking to get thrown. Center your balance fool!
hatemosher601 1 year ago
@hatemosher601 Same reason Judo guys used to roll to their stomach. When I started studying that was the approved way to avoid the choke, roll to your stomach pull your collar up and wait for the ref. to stop the match. Competition without context poisons applicability.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone by the way, rolling on the stomach to avoid chokes is one method that modern Judokas learn and personally I think that it's a really stupid technique to apply to avoid chokes. This is one of the techniques that's discouraged in BJJ competitions (giving back to your opponent) and I agree with BJJ on this one. Good thing Sport Sambo does not have this since they do not allow chokes thus giving the back is not an issue in that sport but against a well trained Judoka/BJJ artist = trouble
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo I think you just made my point for me.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@hatemosher601 In BJJ tournament rules throws count for very little, unlike Judo where a clean one ends the match. I'll sit down before I let someone throw me. On the ground is where I'm safest anyway.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
im a purple belt bjj and im doing judo now the mis is just awesome my game is 10 times better...
obispo1 1 year ago
@mateah - To see some good examples of Judo throws being performed without a gi, watch Karo Parisyan's MMA fights. The reason Judo competitions end when a clean throw is performed is due to the fact that the old masters knew that a fight can be ended with a single throw. Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu are one in the same. They both come from the same tree which was the tree of Jujutsu. One developed as a throwing sport while the other developed as a grappling sport and each compliments the other.
BuJitsu4life 1 year ago 9
@BuJitsu4life I must say, I give you a Hand in Applause, and a Thumbs up as well, but if I remember correctly all of this will fall under the "Judo" Tree. By history, if I remember correctly a Kodakon Judo Martial artist brought his work to Brazil and continue his work there, and it was named BJJ. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I am sure that this all falls under the "Judo" branch ;').
ShinSephy 1 year ago
parisyan (along with kung lee) is one of my favorite MMA fighters and has the sickest throws & counters as well as superior takedown defense, but doesn't have the strongest ground game.
once a game goes to the ground, jiu jitsu is the strongest art
djgambitron 1 year ago
last i heard of karo, he was dropping out because of back problems, but his fights were always favorites. he was doing to BJJ fighters what royce gracie was doing to EVERYONE when MMA 1st started. his reversals & throws were a thing of beauty to watch. BJJ is effective, but boring as watching moss grow as a viewer.
that's why kung lee is my other favorite fighter. he beats the whizz out of opponents & keeps the fight away from jiu jitsu. i've never seen him taken down yet & OHKOs are awesome
djgambitron 1 year ago
@mateah - Read the history on Judo; you will learn that Kano developed the art to be a safe cultural practice by eliminating or tweaking the dangerous/deadly throws from the various styles of Jujutsu he had studied. In short, Kano developed Judo as a way to preserve a way of life. It was Kano's successors that eventually turned Judo into a sport. I agree that there are no "fight ending throws" practiced in Judo but that is because it is a sport. You would eventually run out of training partners.
BuJitsu4life 1 year ago
If you're gonna fight a judo guy on his terms you gotta keep your back straight and don't hunch over. Otherwise you get thrown easy. Only thing I know that works well ( or well enough) against a judoka is using wrestling head/arm controls. Most judoka I've met don't like doublelegs , single legs or having their head pulled down. They don't train it as much as throws I guess. Its good to know and train both in my opinion though.
nbglass 1 year ago
They don't grab legs anymore because the new rules forbids it. The IJF felt that they needed to protect the sport, because many olympic wrestlers and traditional wrestler from central asia were going to Judo competitions and defeating judokas, even tho they did no Judo and weren't doing any throws.
NoFrag0 1 year ago
@NoFrag0 Thanks for the info
nbglass 1 year ago
I am an excellent judokan. And I know i can get my but handed to me by a few of my friends who stay with BJJ. Saying one thing is better than another takes away the credit that is due to the person who studies, trains and excels in his field. I find it dissapointing that any true judokan would say that BJJ is "stupid" especially since it is Newaza.
lve4lvn2 1 year ago
@lve4lvn2 Did you mean "judoka"?
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
judo is da best!!!!
JJimenez1995 1 year ago
massive rank difference anyone?
bobbybushae339 1 year ago
because BJJ is a stupid way of fighting..
leopurpleman 2 years ago