Bob Katz - music mastering and loudness Part 1

[Zeemanuk]

Nuff Love 2 Bob

[TRIAM1D]

Would the signal-to-noise ratio of the difference between the source and the .mp3 be altered if there was more headroom to begin with? I'm just trying to figure out if there exists a middle ground for producers who make electronic music, hip-hop etc. with today's mastering techniques so that there's enough headroom to eliminate noise on a conversion to another format but still that "perceived loudness" of modern hip-hop/electronic music records.

[TheDesertRoseRanch]

Artists need to demand quality over quantity.

[cursedlemon]

@YungStatik I couldn't say, I'm no math whiz. ;x

[1991707312]

Nice clear explanation. IMHO The basic change in technology is that the low end noise floor is the enemy in analogue audio, so you try to keep levels high to keep the signal to noise ratio accetpable. Analogue overloads can be pleasurable. In digital the high end (full scale) limit is the enemy and the noise floor is around 20dB lower. Overloading sounds unpleasant. So it makes perfect sense to mix at -20dB FS to preserve your top end headroom, whilst keeping the S/N ration approx the same.

[junglist32]

Did he just phase invert the Wav file and add/mix it with the Mp3 in order to hear the difference? I've been researching this method if so and there seems to be mixed opinions on whether or not it is relevant to hear what the perceptual encoding has added or subtracted from the music because of the way it subtracts masked frequencies we can't hear anyway. I am very interested in finding out what sort of mastering techniques might be applicable to a mixing for MP3

[cursedlemon]

@junglist32 Trying a null test with an MP3 vs. a wave file is ridiculous anyhow, because MP3s drift off-tempo ever so slightly.

[UrbanMuzikVEVO]

Real bad reality of our recent technology! too many mastering tools ! ahahaha

[oatstao]

I read all the papers TC had up on the site a few years back. I learned so much from them, that made intuitive sense. This is a companion talk to those papers. For those that want ultra detail about a whole host of digital mastering problems/solutions, go to the tc electronic website. Lots of PDF's to read. (at least last time I was there) TC used to make SPARK which I still use today.

[sorstudios]

20db over 20 years Hummmmmm......ever consider that old analog VU meters did peak at +6,10,and even 20db? Just an observation.

[cursedlemon]

@sorstudios You realize the difference between 0 dB analog level, and 0 dB full-scale, right? Or exactly WHY levels had to be kept low in the vinyl years?

[sorstudios]

@cursedlemon Mr. Katz stated (20db over 20 years) Comparing analog to digital. We don't mix analog anymore, Or do we? We only take in analog and then converted to digital....... So take DAC

[cursedlemon]

@AgentHomer Ummm...0 dBu is .775 volts.

[AgentHomer]

@cursedlemon Of course, you're right. I made a mistake. I should have said "no extra voltage than unity/operating level". then again, operating level in some cases is 1.24v, instead of 0.775v.

[Vinsanity12207]

What are some dvds that shows us how to master music ?

[amadeus23]

estuuupidoooo!!!

ilogicooo!!!!!

Bob's face!!

very funny :)

[jsquie]

WOW this guy is amazing. Really knows his shit.

[Raydensheraj]

I learned a lot from Mr.Katz but what is he thinking? When Audio Interfaces changed to 24Bit/96khz ( and more ) the dynamic range-game changed. The Digital World took over - were not in an Analog only World anymore. Some Music calls for Loudness ( Drum & Bass,Techno,Hip Hop/Rap etc ) - I think its more important to produce better Music then to waste time like this here.

[kboy3141]

@Raydensheraj dnb, tehcno, dubstep, hip-hop would sound so much better with dynamic range, ESPECIALLY in the bass region

[cursedlemon]

@Raydensheraj Erm, sample rate and bit depth have absolutely nothing to do with the loudness wars...

[bjokkor]

dude knows his stuff.

[benthemiester]

Good mastering is truly an art form. Lets stop the loudness wars and get back to quality rather than SPL's. The whole problem is that producers & radio stations managers know that the general public will automatically tune to the radio station with the loudest signal, but Its really silly to take advantage of this if the music suffers. If the consumer really wants to hear it louder, then just turn the mother fucker up! Its that simple. I think Mp3's and quantity vs quality also played a row.

[MsBusse]

bob is the best

mastering enngineer

[ovohm]

is there anyone in that class? Im proud to have private tutoring,

[Tablo0213]

No wonder things sound so clipped on radio, not only because of MP3 compression.

[Tablo0213]

Apple earbuds killed music.

[joseggf1]

why he compares salsa with ballad????????????

[Bioibis]

@joseggf1 beacuse it has nothing to do with musical gender, it has to do with Loudness... you can pick any early Beatles song and compare it with any recent Paul Mcartney's material and it still explains the point. ;)

[lucianodato]

me encanta cuando los estadounidenses hablan en español, supongo que ellos se reiran de nosotros cuando hablamos ingles

[ricemilk]

i have recently brought a new mobile phone and have loaded new electronic music on it +some old Joni Mitchell stuff & i know for a fact the Joni stuff is quieter but more pleasing and calming to my ears yes people who live in the headphone world the loudness is damaging out ears TURN IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!

[whiteaxxxe]

this loudness-bullshit is disgusting!! it destroys the music! well said, Mr. Katz!!!

[BuddhaMaster84]

I don't hear a single latin drum in the red version....

[semiLivedj]

Its true,I can only handle so much of the loudness,but when its mixed lower,I can listen to it all day.

[sdeanmusic]

SALSA!

[LiarsNightmare]

bob, it's two different styles and you're obviously not playing fair. i read your book cover to cover 4 times. this is horrific. not to mention the silly vaccine-loving song i just heard which you mastered. sounds like a propaganda commercial for CDC (Center for Disease CREATION!)

[misteradilost]

This guy is a genius when it comes to Mastering Audio. I wish i had all of his knowledge! Bobby Katz Rules! :)

[mbanda07]

he is really good

[MyPassionsss]

What can be next regarding the loudness war if we now hit (or even overload) the top of the scale? A new scale?:) I hope that current audio engineers realize, that we must go back to the times when everything was just right! Or maybe they know it already but they can't do anything because of the final customer who just love the loudest possible and distorted s...it coming out of his crappy speakers. It's sad!

[foxfoobar]

@MyPassionsss

mobile phones killed the dynamic star...

[m63shredder]

Think about the 60 cycle hum... The reason why loudness has taken over is because most people could care less about more than 320kpbs...

[BizzyMo]

hahaha stupido :D bob is cool!

[overdriveukuk]

anyone else think its ironic how bad the audio on this is ?

[BdogMusic]

Yes Sir, that is what is going on. Dynamics should be a way of musical life. Thank you for sharing this with us.

[bunnywolfinc]

Legend.