I bought a Bert album in 1988 and it changed my life. There was something about it that went straight to my soul as much or more than anything I'd heard.
Many Rock musicians like Page, Dylan, Paul Simon, to name a few w ere hanging around the early folk scene, listening to people like Jansch, Davy Graham, Martin Carthy; learning stuff. Page apparently in recent times has made certain admissions re Blackwaterside, turned into Blackmountainside. Jansch wrote the music to Blackwaterside, but the (Trad) words were given to him by Anne Briggs.
Thanks for reply. -- It's easy once one has heard a few of Bert's albums, then one keeps learning bits of history. Like most people who listen to him, one is frequently impressed.
True... I'm guilty of that. One day I'll stop whinging about it, think it's been fairly well argued already. His music stands on its own, that's for sure.
At one point, I was absolutely obsessed with Bert Jansch. When I first heard that LP [1965], I couldnt believe it. It was so far ahead of what everyone else was doing. No one in America could touch that
This i found on Bert's official website..it's not that Jimmy is not aware of it...i also remember an interview, in where Jimmy states that Bert is his biggest influence....
ya, but without giving Bert credit, it's called plagiarism (aka rip off): read on, and ask yourself that same question...
Bert Jansch is aware of the influence he exerted over Jimmy Page. In a 2007 interview in Classic Rock, Jansch observes, "the thing I've noticed about Jimmy [Page] whenever we meet is that he can't look me in the eye." When asked to explain, Jansch continues, "Well, he ripped me off , didn't he? Or let's just say he learned from me. I wouldn't want to sound impolite.
Wishing Well is up, sung by Anne Briggs unaccompanied. Another one he got from her but on his Birthday Blues album it is credited to Jansch/Briggs. So, looks like another where she wrote the lyrics & he did the guitar arrangement. Some of her work fitered through to Pentangle; eg; The Snows They Melt the Soonest for one.
Man I am sick of reading this same thing about Led Zeps version of Blackwaterside. Get over it already. And yes, before anyone trots it out he ripped "White Summer" off Davey Graham.
A lot of ideas of are based on something else.
Jansch tried to get his record company to pursue it in the 70's but they decided it wasn't worth it, and 30 years later everyone with a laptop seems to be plastering it all over t'internet. Arrghhh!
Interesting posts. Page's arrangement of Black Mountain Side was lifted from Jansch. Maybe a tenth of a royalty point of the first Zeppelin record would've set Bert up for life. On the other hand, I heard of Jansch from Page, and it changed my life.
about 5 years ago a good friend of mine brought an album over to my house, put it on the record player, and played the damn thing. What was played has inspired me ever since. Bert Jansch, Birthday Blues, has to be, to this day, one of the most influential albums of my entire life. Rosemary Lane, Jack Orion, all amazing records of true craftsmanship and beauty.
its nice to see Bert playing again here. This song is totally his style, the slides in particular, check the way he substitutes fingering , swapping the root note between two different fingers.If someone has a clip from this summers tour of Bert , please post Black Swan...I would love to see him do that.
Love Bert. An inspiration & a legend. Artists come & go. There are those who've as genuine souls spoken of the debt they owe. Perhaps some should have been more open about it. Bert ain't bothered. He's the best.
Blackwaterside is an old folk song. However, Berts arrangement is unique and original - Page 'stole' the arrangement, not the song (I'm sure he has regretted doing so for many years!). It's amazing how many songs and arrangements Zep 'covered' without giving any credit whatsoever to the original artist(s). Still love their music though :)
Yeah, there is a video on youtube about how LZ used a lot of old lesser known songs written by other musicians, and all they really did is spiced them up and made the songs more marketable.
Its common knowledge to anybody who has been heavily into LZ, even though I know about this facts, and know that what they did was wrong, out of 9 studio albums they released, there is only 13 songs (that i personally know of) that are basically covers of other peoples songs
No matter what they did, you have to admit that they did write and record a lot of great riffs, that are still amazing today, I still love them all the same even though I know what they did was wrong.
Page and Jones had been studio musicians for several years prior to LZ, so they knew the industry inside out, and you would have thought that they themselves would have given credit where credit was due, as all they were really doing was showing their respect to their influences...
It's an old Irish folk song - Annie Briggs taught Jimmy Page the (vocal) melody, Jimmy Page then used that as an excuse to steal from Jansch... there's no way he could've come up with his version from the original irish vocal melodies without a but of theft off Jansch
ahem! in art you always get ideas from other places, "A man is himself and his circumstance" an idea get`s you to the other always and the VERY FEW ideas that came from nowhere and did not took something else from something was the fire, o no wait the caveman copied it from lightening, AHem I mean the Wheel, On no wait he copied it from something round, but wait it was original because the caveman took the idea of round to transport heavier things NOW THAT ORIGINAL, THATS HOW CREATIVITY WORKS!!.
and plus, its not just getting the idea or how it was "copied", its the actual playing as well, and spin my nipples and send me to alaska if jimmy page didnt play it brilliantly
No, he took the instrumental directly from Jansch. That is not building on an "idea", that is just taking Jansch's version and stripping out the melody. And Ahem! You're a tosser.
While I agree that Page did steal it, it's not fair to say he directly lifted it. Jansch plays with a Drop-D tuning, capo'd at the fourth or fifth fret where Page had it arranged for DADGAD. The changes are a lot deeper than that though, the chords plucked are significantly different. It's really just the overall air and rhythm that's taken because even accounting for key you couldn't overaly or substitute these with each other.
As I have heard it, Jansch was given the lyrics by Anne Briggs when he lived with her. Jansch did the musical arrangement, then little Jimmy boy "lifted it". Jansch still seems full of praise for Anne.
Neil Young is on record as saying Bert Jansch was the Hendrix of the accoustic guitar.You can,t argue with that
julyarchives 4 months ago
To be honest, the singing isn't really good. Then again, neither was Hendrix.
RemllikGames 6 months ago
Jansch said that Page "ripped me off, didn't he? Or let's just say he learned from me"
zzy66613 6 months ago
@zzy66613 Jimmy Page did rip him off, he ripped him off blind.
Threepwoodist 4 months ago
Back in the 60:ies - I heard Bert Jansch in "Les Cousins" In SoHo many many times - he was good then , and still is the frkking best!!
AblunaLunara 1 year ago 2
@AblunaLunara You are one lucky person. :-)
ModGirl1967 4 months ago
inspiring
LateNotes 1 year ago
OMG what would my life have been like without Berts music in it....I owe this guy a massive debt of gratitude.
cjwaywell 2 years ago 3
I bought a Bert album in 1988 and it changed my life. There was something about it that went straight to my soul as much or more than anything I'd heard.
samswank 2 years ago
bert jansch is an OG
buewgewstmeiers 2 years ago
Many Rock musicians like Page, Dylan, Paul Simon, to name a few w ere hanging around the early folk scene, listening to people like Jansch, Davy Graham, Martin Carthy; learning stuff. Page apparently in recent times has made certain admissions re Blackwaterside, turned into Blackmountainside. Jansch wrote the music to Blackwaterside, but the (Trad) words were given to him by Anne Briggs.
viking1au 2 years ago 9
Hey you know ur music :). I admire that.
Niamhdm7871 2 years ago
Thanks for reply. -- It's easy once one has heard a few of Bert's albums, then one keeps learning bits of history. Like most people who listen to him, one is frequently impressed.
viking1au 2 years ago
All anyone talks about on Jansch's videos is Jimmy Page, it's kind of funny really.....
redrock505 2 years ago 2
True... I'm guilty of that. One day I'll stop whinging about it, think it's been fairly well argued already. His music stands on its own, that's for sure.
FolkieOne 2 years ago
Comment removed
adamkotta888 2 years ago
At one point, I was absolutely obsessed with Bert Jansch. When I first heard that LP [1965], I couldnt believe it. It was so far ahead of what everyone else was doing. No one in America could touch that
This i found on Bert's official website..it's not that Jimmy is not aware of it...i also remember an interview, in where Jimmy states that Bert is his biggest influence....
Mariekesone 3 years ago 3
God
cjwaywell 3 years ago
Has anyone ever stopped to think Page's version may be an HOMAGE and not a RIP OFF?
ttoale 3 years ago 3
ya, but without giving Bert credit, it's called plagiarism (aka rip off): read on, and ask yourself that same question...
Bert Jansch is aware of the influence he exerted over Jimmy Page. In a 2007 interview in Classic Rock, Jansch observes, "the thing I've noticed about Jimmy [Page] whenever we meet is that he can't look me in the eye." When asked to explain, Jansch continues, "Well, he ripped me off , didn't he? Or let's just say he learned from me. I wouldn't want to sound impolite.
barakshulman 3 years ago 4
Whatever the truth, I wouldn't have heard of Jansch if it wasn't for Page.
EvilEddtheRed 3 years ago 10
hhhmmmm, if page was so influenced by jansch then how do you know you would of heard page if not for jansch????
unmegaface 2 years ago
Comment removed
EvilEddtheRed 2 years ago
@EvilEddtheRed yeah me neither
majinbunda 1 year ago
ttoale, i was going to post that awhile back....totally agree...Jansch rules :), and Jimmy is right behind in the genius stakes
zeldiy 3 years ago
Thank you for putting this up. :) I hope I'll see "Wishing Well" up here someday....
honeyspur 3 years ago
Wishing Well is up, sung by Anne Briggs unaccompanied. Another one he got from her but on his Birthday Blues album it is credited to Jansch/Briggs. So, looks like another where she wrote the lyrics & he did the guitar arrangement. Some of her work fitered through to Pentangle; eg; The Snows They Melt the Soonest for one.
viking1au 2 years ago
a true and great artist...
garethhulin 3 years ago
It was a great plesure to see Bert with the Pentangle in Cardiff, playing so well, a few months back. A great guitarist, singer snd writer.
OnkelOtto7 3 years ago
great song..........should really read the beautiful stranger book, very informative
mcwarty 3 years ago
Bert Jansch is an incredibly underrated acoustic guitarist...he influenced everyone from his time from Neil Young to Jimmy Page...
smoke117 3 years ago
Went to see him last week in Edinburgh. It was great.
BuddinTheAmazing 3 years ago 3
This isn't even Blackwaterside, so why is that all anyone is talking about?
Anyway, it's always a pleasure to hear Jansch sing :)
KaiBailey 3 years ago 2
Man I am sick of reading this same thing about Led Zeps version of Blackwaterside. Get over it already. And yes, before anyone trots it out he ripped "White Summer" off Davey Graham.
A lot of ideas of are based on something else.
Jansch tried to get his record company to pursue it in the 70's but they decided it wasn't worth it, and 30 years later everyone with a laptop seems to be plastering it all over t'internet. Arrghhh!
99ZARDOZ 3 years ago
Interesting posts. Page's arrangement of Black Mountain Side was lifted from Jansch. Maybe a tenth of a royalty point of the first Zeppelin record would've set Bert up for life. On the other hand, I heard of Jansch from Page, and it changed my life.
samswank 3 years ago
about 5 years ago a good friend of mine brought an album over to my house, put it on the record player, and played the damn thing. What was played has inspired me ever since. Bert Jansch, Birthday Blues, has to be, to this day, one of the most influential albums of my entire life. Rosemary Lane, Jack Orion, all amazing records of true craftsmanship and beauty.
y2kbuyusay 3 years ago
Agree. Rosemary Lane is an all time classic album.
viking1au 2 years ago
Brilliant!
amozartii 3 years ago
a great artist
LateNotes 3 years ago
Thanks for posting this, it's always nice to see God at work.
cjwaywell 3 years ago
30 Years ago...very good... now...also.
sixtyp 4 years ago
Danke für den tollen Titel und für
das Video!!!
Aergerdichnicht 4 years ago
WOW.. what tuning is this in?
Osmun79 4 years ago
it's standard tuning
chupucabras 4 years ago
its nice to see Bert playing again here. This song is totally his style, the slides in particular, check the way he substitutes fingering , swapping the root note between two different fingers.If someone has a clip from this summers tour of Bert , please post Black Swan...I would love to see him do that.
booksteve 4 years ago
Love Bert. An inspiration & a legend. Artists come & go. There are those who've as genuine souls spoken of the debt they owe. Perhaps some should have been more open about it. Bert ain't bothered. He's the best.
azulluz 4 years ago
My god! Scotch treasure!!!
tomosoniq 4 years ago
JOHN RENBOURN (THE PENTANGLE)LIVE IN MANCHESTER
swings and roundabouts presents John Renbourn (The Pentangle) plus support Johnny Dickinson
FRIDAY 23rd NOVEMBER 2007
THE DANCEHOUSE THEATRE 10 Oxford Road MANCHESTER, M1 5QA
£10 adv
DOORS 7.30PM
TICKETS AVAILABLE SOON CHECK OUR MYSPACE PAGE OR RENBOURNS WEBPAGE FOR DETAILS
SWINGSANDROUNDABOUTS44 - MYSPACE PAGE
DarranCarter1966 4 years ago
cool
FunnyHaHaFunnyHaHa 4 years ago
jesus blackwaterside is an old english folk tune bert fucking jansch didnt write it and so jimmy didnt steal it
bevanmcg 4 years ago
that bert was one of jimmies biggest influence comes from jimmy himself. It has not to do with him playing blackwaterside
kanqin 4 years ago
Blackwaterside is an old folk song. However, Berts arrangement is unique and original - Page 'stole' the arrangement, not the song (I'm sure he has regretted doing so for many years!). It's amazing how many songs and arrangements Zep 'covered' without giving any credit whatsoever to the original artist(s). Still love their music though :)
oldmossystone 4 years ago
Yeah, there is a video on youtube about how LZ used a lot of old lesser known songs written by other musicians, and all they really did is spiced them up and made the songs more marketable.
Its common knowledge to anybody who has been heavily into LZ, even though I know about this facts, and know that what they did was wrong, out of 9 studio albums they released, there is only 13 songs (that i personally know of) that are basically covers of other peoples songs
lespaulzrule 4 years ago
No matter what they did, you have to admit that they did write and record a lot of great riffs, that are still amazing today, I still love them all the same even though I know what they did was wrong.
Page and Jones had been studio musicians for several years prior to LZ, so they knew the industry inside out, and you would have thought that they themselves would have given credit where credit was due, as all they were really doing was showing their respect to their influences...
lespaulzrule 4 years ago
That's why I think it might have had something to do with the Bands manager Peter Grant, and the Record Label, and not the band members themselves...
Anyway, sorry for the triple post, I just wanted to say what I thought about what you posted thats all.
BTW, if it wasn't for LZ I would have never known about Bert Jansch, you can totally hear that Page was heavily influenced by this guy!
Great stuff!
lespaulzrule 4 years ago
It's an old Irish folk song - Annie Briggs taught Jimmy Page the (vocal) melody, Jimmy Page then used that as an excuse to steal from Jansch... there's no way he could've come up with his version from the original irish vocal melodies without a but of theft off Jansch
FolkieOne 4 years ago
ahem! in art you always get ideas from other places, "A man is himself and his circumstance" an idea get`s you to the other always and the VERY FEW ideas that came from nowhere and did not took something else from something was the fire, o no wait the caveman copied it from lightening, AHem I mean the Wheel, On no wait he copied it from something round, but wait it was original because the caveman took the idea of round to transport heavier things NOW THAT ORIGINAL, THATS HOW CREATIVITY WORKS!!.
jfnd777 4 years ago
yarp i agree
and plus, its not just getting the idea or how it was "copied", its the actual playing as well, and spin my nipples and send me to alaska if jimmy page didnt play it brilliantly
steveisdrummy 4 years ago
Comment removed
FolkieOne 2 years ago
No, he took the instrumental directly from Jansch. That is not building on an "idea", that is just taking Jansch's version and stripping out the melody. And Ahem! You're a tosser.
FolkieOne 2 years ago 4
While I agree that Page did steal it, it's not fair to say he directly lifted it. Jansch plays with a Drop-D tuning, capo'd at the fourth or fifth fret where Page had it arranged for DADGAD. The changes are a lot deeper than that though, the chords plucked are significantly different. It's really just the overall air and rhythm that's taken because even accounting for key you couldn't overaly or substitute these with each other.
tomasoc 2 years ago
As I have heard it, Jansch was given the lyrics by Anne Briggs when he lived with her. Jansch did the musical arrangement, then little Jimmy boy "lifted it". Jansch still seems full of praise for Anne.
viking1au 2 years ago
good footage. by the way. the song is called "it don´t bother me" .
boundroundsound 4 years ago
thanks, boundroundsound! you're right -I just added the song title to video details.
great pentangle videos you got there, btw.
videoplenur 4 years ago
This is fantastic, Bert is at the top of his game as usual.
nh1x 4 years ago