White Firefighters Prevail in Supreme Court Case

[MrAppleseed88]

Fuck yes. We have to fight in the courts to protect our people. Every chance you get. This fucking government is at war with our people.

[victorpriest1291]

What a white man files a case suing the N.B.A. for not hiring enough white people to people to play? You and I both know that would be completely bogus. Affirmative action does discriminate and this is a perfect example. I am not a raciest because I think this. I am actually African Latino and live in the United States, even though affirmative action helps benefit me I still do not think it is fair.

[caryn4freedom]

...?



[caryn4freedom]

...?

[hellspawnds]

WHAT made the test so unfair? Weren't blacks allowed pencils? Seriously what bogus excuse is it this time?

[wijse]

Americans wake up! A new party has arrived! The American Third Position Party! american3p . org The only party that will talk about race and end affirmative action!

Look them up at american3p . org and also take a look at some of their videos here on youtube.

The American Third Position Party!

[mikefnm]

thank people like jesse jackson , al sharpton ,the aclu ,and liberal pussies who like to sue companies if blacks are not being hired even if their not qualified

[mikefnm]

what ever happen to best man for job the gets the job

we can't lower the standards cause blacks can't hack it.

[StoogeWatcher]

I bet the Democrats' heads exploded when those firefighters finally got promoted.

[strawberEfieldz4ever]

WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT COLOR YOU ARE!

all i want is the right firefighter for the job because if my house is on fire and u have someone in charge that has no goddamn idea what to do and they have to save me and my family. i mean it makes no sense if a white guy gets a 96 and a black guy gets an 83 u pick the white guy not cause ur an racist asshole but because he got a better grade...and that mayor should resign "we hold these truths to be self evedent that ALL men are created EQUAL"

[RoyalDemonforChrist]

fucjin racist white asshole i hate u white fucks

[StoogeWatcher]

Blacks are the biggest racists. They don't want to work hard and they want special privileges for everything.

[XxXxINSIGHTxXxX]

Affirmative action did not teach minorties at that time to coem to the level to pass the bar. It lowered the bar so they could come in. That hurt the country as a whole. More teaching would have been a better way to go. I personally want the person most qualified for the job. Their race comes second to that. These Firefighters were the top of their class and they studied to get themselves there. They Are Better! plain and simple...

[Xproletariatx]

In an op-ed article for Forbes, law professor Bruce Carolan laid out the background to this disparity: "For generations, big city fire departments have been the preserve of whites...And how were these jobs filled? Fathers told sons and uncles told nephews when entry exams for the fire department were coming up. Examinations that were not widely advertised in minority communities, if at all. "

[CoachFogg]

Discrimination is perfectly ok, as long as your discriminating again white males. How the hell did this even get to the Supreme court? Glad I don't like in Conn!

[panamanubian]

When we are going to talk about the fact that white people in percentage score better points than black people, we should ask our self why, and make a comparison of the schools they attended, and from which neighborhoods they come from, including the overall wellbeing of their household from which they come from, then we should talk about if we need affirmative action or not. Sorry guys english is not my first language. I hope you get the point.

[violin245]

but is the best way of getting them to do better by giving them promotions and job they didn't earn and taking the promotions and jobs away from those who did earn it? these firefighters are adults now how long do we blame their circumstances? are they not smart enough to figure out that if they didn't do well enough on a test are they should probably study more instead of trying to make the law pick up tere slack?

[panamanubian]

I would not call, the disanvantages that I mentioned earlier slack, I would rather look at them as circunstances that affect a persons life, in all the areas of their performance and spycological state, do you know that the amount of black students who live in the suburbs score the same aoumt of points in their S.A.T, compare to the rest of the white students. do you now that the amount of black students who live in the suburbs and go to college is alomst the same in numbers compare to whites.

[violin245]

At what age will society say to minorites "what you sow is what you reap." These firefighters should be at least smart enough and self aware enough to know that if they did poorly on a test the best and right thing to do is study more.

[panamanubian]

O.k. let me put it this way, not because you have had a hard life you deserve the job, but rather because black people as a whole, has been FORCE TO HAVE A HARDER LIFE, so if we are going to compare those who had a better life, to those who had not, I think we deserve the laws that we have, let me say this why is it, that white people, without been racist, forced the engineering faculty at the university of San Francisco

[violin245]

but when does it stop. i can understand afirmative action for college and maybe maybe certain jobs but a promotion?? these adults ADULTS are smart enough to figure this out by now and stop blaming the environment. Blaming other factors takes the responsibility away and taking responsibility is the key to acheiving. We the black community have been blaming people for way to long it's really time for us to take responsibility for our actions yes our streets are dangerous

[violin245]

And the environment is not the best but are we doing something about it or just waiting for the government? Affirmative action has done some good but me need to make a distinction between where helping underprivileged people and when it is just lowering the standard.

[panamanubian]

For some reason black people that likes to hang out with white people are more likely to speak against affirmative actions than others.

[violin245]

I only speak out against it becuase it's hurting black people.

[panamanubian]

Dont allow that republican mentality to exercise on you, Affirmative action have help us a whole lot, it has helped, to open the doors, and to integrate the power in society as well that at the working place. There is no way that affirmative action is hurting us, not because there are white people who are against it, or mad because it exists, we have to give up on it.

[panamanubian]

We fought for the right to be treated fairly, and to have the same position in society as every one else, do not give up on your self esteem, nor on your history neither on your pride, be proud of being who you are and stand for your people at all time. Bye.

[violin245]

well i guess we'll disagree though i think on this one though i'm definitely a democratic and think some of affirmative action is good. but it was good talking to you and nice work with the English you've given me new inspiration to learn Korean better

[Xproletariatx]

How the hell is Affirmative Action hurting black people??? More blacks have advanced into higher education through AA than previously in the era of Jim Crow segregation and disfranchisement. Even with these policies, whites still make up a majority of students in universities, firefighters and policemen, etc. Blacks make up much less of the US population yet they're 50% of the prison population. Clearly there's some racism going on here, and its definitely not towards white people.a

[Snake180666]

@Xproletariatx You can't give people jobs who aren't qualified. All you do is lower quality.

[Snake180666]

@panamanubian Can you learn to write proper English? It's ignorant idiots like you who are looking for jobs you aren't qualified for while putting people at risk.

[panamanubian]

if Im not rung, to limit the amount of Asian student admitted at the faculty, for the fact that the white students were not able to get the higher scores In the test compare to their Asians counterparts to be able to get into the school. If affirmative action dint exist then we would be living in a world were those who are privilege would always have all the jobs, an America landscape would not be diversified,

[panamanubian]

not between black and white but rather between the privilege and the rest privilege. Im sure that there are enough Asian guys that could replace white people in computer engineering jobs, as well than in others related fields.

[Snake180666]

@violin245 All affirmative action does is teach Blacks that they deserve things without hard work. Blacks feel entitled to things. What happened in the past is in the past. The Whites who suffer from affirmative action are usually poor and just barely making the grade themselves and not the affluent Whites who have been more likely to benefit from slavery or Jim Crow.

[panamanubian]

lets take the facts that I´m going to mention into consideration, a lot of black people, are born into poor neighborhoods, many of them from single parents homes, and attending public schools, that never encourage learning nor academical achievement, meanwhile a lot of white children are born in a middle class environment, they grow up in a house where both parents are present, and go to schools that encourage learning and academical achievement, in order for them to go to a good college.

[violin245]

wow even thoughenglish being your second langauge you are awesome!! I am definitely not that skilled with Korean yet. Yes i understand and agree with what you're saying and I think we need affirmative action in college but by the time someone has a real job they should be able to understand that if they work harder or study more they will be better at these jobs. Should we say to a 30-40 year old with a job "you don't deserve this promotion but you should get it becuase your had a hard life

[violin245]

seriously?

[shygal10]

They are firefighters taking a test for a job they are already doing. the test is has questions about firefighting in it.  If you can't pass it you shouldn't be in the job in the first place let alone get promoted. How did you pass the initial test for the job or was it when they did the hiring they had to fill a quota of so many of each race? Proof again that you should be hired by knowledge not race.

[DAT573]

It is a pencil and paper test.

What is so hard about this?

[shygal10]

Wow did my fingers go haywire spelling department in the previous post. Should I yelL BIAS?????  LOL

[shygal10]

firefighters tests ARE geared to firefighting. Both my kids are firefighters and I've seen all the tests they've taken. and it's really sad if you're already a firefighter and can't pass a test for your job. you shouldn't even be in a dpertement.

[cg66079]

How many times do I have to say it, qualification tests don't work that way (I am assuming they use that method). They could have gotten 90% of the questions right and still failed if they they were under the the designated percentile score. It means nothing about how many questions they got right or wrong, just their ranking respective to the other test takers.

[caverty]

And whats wrong with that? If theres only a certain ammount of positions and all the people passed you could only appoint the highest scores. Blacks could of all been promoted and the shoe on the other foot if they would of studied.

[caverty]

You can call me a biggot but that term is useless. When "excuse makers" like yourself dont have a valid argument you always call us a biggot. Remember though your the one saying that if a white man and black man take the same test the black is inheritenly at a disadvantage.

[cg66079]

I was talking about demographic bias. That means bias that unfairly effects a certain demographic (whites vs blacks, rich vs poor, men vs women, north vs south, etc.). It just so happens that the majority of the biases found when tests are analyzed involve race and socioeconomic status. If the shoe was on the other foot it still would be bias.

[cg66079]

Do I think that blacks should get bonus points for being black? NO, but I do believe that when tests do show demographic bias there should be an item analysis and they should throw out the questions that are causing it and redo the test.

[caverty]

Demographic? Lets see:

1) Same job

2)same station and city

3)same salary

4)same opportunity

5)same resources

Wheres the bias in firefighting? you either know your shit or you dont!!!! Its a job!!!

[shygal10]

Then again the fact still remains they needed to study more to get the higher percentile than the white firefighters who scored higher. Of course they're going to go with who got the highest score and work downward. And since not 1 black male was able to do that then they lose. and since when did it become just a white thing. A hispanic man also passed the test so explain how that happened. Guess he took the time to study too.

[sdrob40]

DAT573, you're right.....how could a whole group of people score lower than others? I mean....NO black firefighters score high but whites do?

[cg66079]

"how could a whole group of people score lower than others?"

Exactly, hence the test is bias in practice if not in construction. Of course given that it is a pass fail test like I said before, the more selective the test is the weaker the evidence of bias becomes. Explaining bias and reliability statistics would take longer than I am willing to take, so I will leave it at that.

[TaipanofShangMagan]

I don't see how the test could be biased in favor of whites. Not for a running a station. I would like to see the test. Now if the test is about language skills and thought process on how to handle certain situations and it simply was not comprehended well by the minorities then perhaps the training is flawed and needs to be redone. Personally, I would want the best person promoted to that position, not a minority who got a free pass because he couldn't understand how to manage a major situation

[DAT573]

How hard can it be to study and pass

a test?

Even if the test was not relevant to

the job, how can an entire group

of people score so low?

What happened to their education?

[cg66079]

They probably do a pass fail grade and only a certain number are allowed to pass. In that case you don't get a percentage right or wrong. They give the test and only a top predetermined percentage of of them get a passing grade. For example, say you have 100 people taking the test, but you only have 5 positions for advancement, you give the test and the top 5 scores are graded passing and the rest fail. It doesn't matter how well the others did they aren't in the top 5% so they fail.

[cg66079]

continued...

This model is common when tests are given for promotions, because if say 10 of the 100 pass and you only have 5 positions to fill, then you open up the selecting manager to allegations of favoritism or discrimination. Unfortunately, this also means that there is no solid criteria of success and makes the test more easily reproached.

[snowtrot]

they are idiots and lazy.

[cg66079]

And conservatives are worried about liberals legislating from the bench. This is a text book case of it.

The issue is not the administrators bias, but bias of the test itself. The test is statistically bias against a certain group and should be thrown out as defective. The only reason such a test could be considered legit despite this outcome is if it is a performance based exam that is directly related to performance in the field and has been shown to be predictive of future performance.

[cammbs123]

Dont blame black americans for the way they feel. They have been told for years by the white racist liberals that they are entitled to everything, that the government is here for them and dont have to earn anything. This is liberalism at its finest. The whole northeast will come tumbling down sooner than later.

[cg66079]

I'm not blaming anyone, other than the conservative judges having no understanding of the concept of construct bias in testing. The test is bias. I can't tell you why, but the results speak for themselves. There is something in the way that the test is made or the procedures of administration that unequally effects minorities. It approaches statistical impossibility for these outcomes to exist unless there is bias. For that reason a scientist would throw it out they should also.

[caverty]

Maybe blacks dont study?

[cg66079]

Maybe you are a bigot.

[aimforcentermass]

I have skimmed through the comments on this page and, so far, I have noticed many assertions left unsupported. Since you are declaring a bias in these tests, you carry the burden of proof for illustrating such prejudice. At best, you have mentioned statistics, but have failed to demonstrate how they pertain to your argument.

Understand, my objection is with your argument and not you. Unlike some of the responses directed towards you, this is not personal in any way.

[cg66079]

Test analysis statistics is not something I can explain to people that don't have a background in psychometrics. It is an advance subject even for people in the field of psychology. People can get basic statistics like mean, range, and median pretty well, but when you throw even comparatively simple things at them like standard deviation and variance most people wig, much less the concept of construct validity and Pearson correlation coefficients. Its something I can't explain in this venue.

[aimforcentermass]

I respect your understanding of examinations like these, but citing correlative data does not prove bias -- it simply illustrates statistical differences among performers.

[cg66079]

If a consistent difference exists among the test takers that split along demographic lines, whatever they are, that is evidence of demographic bias. Of course another concept you have to accept in statistics is that there is never certainty, that is why you have things like confidence intervals, but when there is evidence of demographic bias in either items or a test you generally err on the side of throwing it out or revising it and that is all they did.

[aimforcentermass]

"If a consistent difference exists among the test takers that split along demographic lines, whatever they are, that is evidence of demographic bias."

A difference in scores is confirmation only of a difference in scores. To infer anything else from this, without sufficient evidence, is illogical. Could a contrast in scores also indicate a difference in aptitude, ability, or work ethic? Seemingly, people are creating a false dichotomy in which possibilities are excluded from consideration.

[cg66079]

The assumption is that there may be differences between demographics like the whole thing about females being worse at math. On average women are slightly worse at math, but the differences between groups insignificant compared to the difference within a group. Therefore, if a significant difference is expressed between groups it is abnormal and can be evidence of bias.

[cg66079]

Other factors do have to be taken into account like the selectivity of the test (selectivity up = evidence of bias down) and the representation of the different demographic in the sample (if representation is loop sided it weakens the case for bias).

[cg66079]

"Could a contrast in scores also indicate a difference in aptitude, ability, or work ethic?"

You are saying maybe the blacks are lazy or just aren't as good as the whites? You do realize the prejudice inherent in those claims don't you? I know you don't mean it maliciously, but it is the same argument that kept the schools segregated as long as they were.

[aimforcentermass]

I'm not stating anything; contrarily, I was asking if others factors existed -- factors that others might be unwilling to consider.

The 2008 United States Olympic Basketball Team was hardly diverse. Would you suggest that the criteria used to select these fine athletes is prejudiced, given your explanation:

"if a significant difference is expressed between groups it is abnormal and can be evidence of bias".

The difference exists, therefore bias exists.

[cg66079]

The Olympic Basketball Team is the most selective qualification in the world of basketball. As I said, as selectivity goes up the evidence of bias goes down. Plus, there is a bit of socialization bias here. Many black boys are encouraged to go into basketball because it is seen as something they can excel in where whites get less of that encouragement.

[cg66079]

Just an interesting side note, some evolutionary scientists have tried to explain the fact that so many sports are dominated by blacks by showing a difference in the muscle fibers of black vs. white athletes, but it was a load of malarkey

[aimforcentermass]

So, would the supposed lack of biological differences imply bias?

[cg66079]

Well yes actually. Like I said. There is a socialization bias in sports like basketball where blacks are encouraged more than whites to think of sports as a potential profession. This leads to the skewed representation that I alluded to before. In this case the bias is not a selection bias in that there isn't a test that is bias against whites in basketball, but there is socialization issues and cultural norms that interfere.

[cg66079]

Oh and a slight difference in muscle fiber composition did exist, but the effects of those differences are insignificant.

[aimforcentermass]

"You are saying maybe the blacks are lazy or just aren't as good as the whites?"

I am not stating anything like that. Please do not misrepresent my position.

[bbpro]

How is the test biased?

Specifically tell us what about the test is biased and what type of test would not be biased.

[cg66079]

The test is statistically bias. It doesn't matter how or why. I don't believe that the test was intentionally biased, but it is. As I said before, it approaches the bounds of statistical impossibility that it isn't bias towards simply based on the outcome of the test.

[cg66079]

I am talking on the level of statistical analysis and testing theory that is probably way above your head and i can't give a Tests and Measures lecture in 500 characters or less. Just suffice to say that this is what I went to school for and I know what I am talking about. Again, not knowing the selectivity of the test (in this case, as selectivity goes up the evidence for bias goes down) and other statical properties of the test itself, the results bias speaks for itself.

[caverty]

It was biased, if you were a slacker and didnt study you wouldnt pass! Unless you want to say that blacks are dumber than whites.

[cg66079]

As I figured, either you didn't read my explanation about the pass fail testing procedures that they usually use in these situations or it is just a concept that is over you head.

[caverty]

No you think it was biased. The question is how was it biased. I didnt say you felt it was racially biased, I said it was biased between people who studied and people who didnt. They all have access to the same books and materials so they all had an equal opportunity.

[occles]

I think most of the people who are criticizing this recent decision are anti-white bigots AND militant racists. Instead of having to take the normal route to success like many whites have had to do, some blacks and latinos feel like they have to advance their own causes by unjust and unfair means. What racists! If you want to do better on the tests, STUDY HARDER! That's how incompetence is weeded out. Sadly, the anti-white bigots and racists don't seem to understand that though.

[arequipa1]

let's face it coolbiggov, you don't read much of anything. your "education" (cough cough) comes from youtube. that's weak.

[shygal10]

Ok try this out. Everyone who took the test is a firefighter. The test was on firefighting skils. Some didn't pass it. HELLOOOOOO!!!!! You didn't pass a test related to a job you've already been hired for and want promoted in? So where's the bias. You're doing a job you apparently know nothing about.

[Curious2Dream]

What percentage of each ethnic group finish high school or college? Did those who failed their test come from poor areas with crappy schools early on? Its not race, but poverty and crappy schools at the start. I doubt there is a particular question that somehow magically gives bonus points to white folks. If you got a better score on a test, you had a better education, or just studied more.

[xpandergt]

exactly curious, however some people have to create a scapegoat in order to blame others when things don't work out their way.

[imstillworkin]

I grew up in poverty and went to crappy schools. Poverty didn't affect my ability to pass a test, it gave me an incentive to work harder.

[xpandergt]

I'm black and I these firefighters deserve their promotions. They played by the rules by studying hard. Those that believe that a test should be dumbed down so more blacks can pass really don't have black's best interest at heart. To say that a test is flawed is a joke. That is basically saying that blacks are in capable of comprehending the same thing as whites. It is merely a cop out excuse.

[Mprator]

I didn't pass a math test once, IT WAS CLEARLY FLAWED!!!!!

[Seer1126]

get a education dumb shit.

here is a clue

what do you get when you mix Spain, French, and some Indians

[GeneralMonkMonk]

Why do they not mention the hispanic male who also received one of the top scores? F'n liberal media*tongue planted firmly in cheek*

[abarzilai664]

An appropiate ruling, the SCOTUS did the right thing. In the future people will tire of Affrimative Action and it will eventualy die out.

[truepaths]

First of all you, filthy racist douchebags always cheer whenever whitey gets his way no matter what. Bottom line is none of you have seen these tests first hand, and a lot of times they're VERY biased towards your cracker-ass cracker culture, asking questions only another whitey would know the answers to, because he grew up in a white-bred system. These tests are not solely based on neutral questions to measure intelligence or know-how, like you're trying to make believe here

[arequipa1]

lol... sure whatever. cracker-ass culture? racist.

[Seer1126]

Look you Porto Rican pos you want a fight you racist POS

[arequipa1]

what the fuck? lol

[truepaths]

scumbags like you not long ago stopped people of other races from even going to school, even from drinking from the same water fountains, then people with morals put you in your place, AND AGAIN the same douchebags like you came up with tests that were biased towards your kind, now after hundreds of years your people thrived and got rich, now its suddenly bad to do that right? now nothing should be done to fix all the filthy, dirty things your people did to get ahead right? hypocrite!!

[arequipa1]

LOL........ you make me laugh. study harder and then next time you can pass the test you fuckup. stop making excuses.

[truepaths]

You don't like being reminded how your sniveling, dirty, cheating kind has gotten ahead. The state was afraid of being sued at first because they knew the tests were biased and need revision. BTW moron, I'm a technician, not a firefighter. What do you do? still live with mom and dad and just cheer whenever you hear how whitey got his way, hoping one day it will be your turn to get your free pass already incorporated into another similar biased system?

[arequipa1]

wow, you're a racist piece of shit!

"technician"...like a sanitary technician? aka a bathroom cleaner? get real you racist fuck. i'm going to call you out every time i see you because you've got nothing to say and you're just mad because the blacks didn't get yet ANOTHER concession. HERE'S A TIP DUMBFUCKS... STUDY HARDER!!!!

[leemil4]

Well, your douche-baggery aside, you're saying that in order to make up for past racial crimes and prejudices, we have to commit new ones as a society? Are you fucking retarded?

And how in the hell do you make a firefighting test biased towards whites, you dolt? Are you saying that whites and non-whites fight fires differently?

Do us all a favor a take a long walk off a short pier, along with every other anti-white bigot.

[truepaths]

Your ignorance is obvious: You think a firefighter's test does not include logistics, and it's simple questions about pissing on a fire to put it out. Before cheering for whitey like always, do some research and you'll find out people who are more educated than you agree many tests out there ARE culturally, ethnically, and demographically biased, including basic ones like the SAT, and it's an on-going hot debate. You're the usual ethnocentric, pro-white, nazi-wannabe filth

[cg66079]

BINGO, someone who knows what they are talking about, Thank you. I bet you understand my explanation about the pass fail format. I don't know if the others did. It is an ongoing struggle for those in psychometrics that understand the complexity of test validity, reliability, and bias to make sure that the tests that they create are not bias and are reasonably predictive of future performance, particularly if those tests are qualification or admissions tests. It is not a cut and dry thing.

[cg66079]

I would back of the name calling though. It is counter productive and just riles up ignorant uneducated people.

[truepaths]

cg66079, I'm just calling them out for what they are. They think they're so smart and nobody has caught up to all the dirty tricks they pull to keep the system forever imbalanced. Dirty, and cheating individuals get very angry when someone else starts pointing out things "you're supposed to keep quiet about"

[bbpro]

Then please feel free to OBJECTIVELY DEMONSTRATE where this alleged bias exists in the firefighter's exam that thousands of dollars were spent on to assure it was NOT biased.

[truepaths]

bbpro, where the hell is your proof that "thousands of dollars" were spent to make sure firefighter tests are not biased? and to be sincere, "thousands" on this day and age sounds like peanuts, so you may want to review your obviously fictitious numbers before you pull them out your ass. On the other hand, I can just point at our black president and make it obvious there's SOMETHING WRONG with those firefighter tests if only white people passed them

[aimforcentermass]

"where the hell is your proof that "thousands of dollars" were spent to make sure firefighter tests are not biased?"

According to the majority opinion of the United States Supreme Court:

"After reviewing bids from various consultants, the City hired Industrial/Organizational Solutions, Inc. (IOS) to develop and administer the examinations, at a cost to the City of $100,000."

Bbpro was correct; IOS was specifically and deliberately hired to design a race-neutral examination.

[truepaths]

aimforcentermass, WRONG: "Defenders of the City of New Havens decision to discard the test claim that the test developed by Industrial/Organizational Solutions, Inc. was poorly constructed. Terminology of the test questions and answers was not specific to the language or terminology that is used locally in New Haven. For example, the use of the words uptown or downtown are not used in New Haven, but they were used in the test". -and heres some more

[aimforcentermass]

"NOW, shoot me another one, PLEASE."

I sufficiently answered your original inquiry, which is not a matter for debate. Your response is completely irrelevant, although I congratulate you on successfully refuting a straw man of your own creation.

Will you concede your fallacious response?

[truepaths]

oh yes, lets call all those facts "completely irrelevant" as long as you can sleep better at night, right? you disgust me, you convenient scumbag, you're no better than another cowardly cracker cheering at a lone minority being linched in Alabama or Mississippi, then claiming your conscience is clear because you didn't tug at the noose directly. Go crawl back under the rock you came out of, you filthy piece of shit

[aimforcentermass]

"oh yes, lets call all those facts "completely irrelevant" as long as you can sleep better at night, right?"

First of all, whether or not your assertions are factual is a matter for debate. Understand, simply declaring your opinion as fact does not warrant such stature on the merits of self-proclamation.

Secondly, your response *was* irrelevant because it addressed something which was of no previous contention between you and me.

[truepaths]

I know that's how your kind works, you only focus on whatever you claim to be the argument at the moment of convenience, while ignoring the whole issue at hand. You think you're so goddamn smart and people will just let you get away with your shit forever but more of us are taking note of your dirty tactics, and you only come through as full of dirty tricks to get your way, and only seem unfairly filthy. like your dad before you and his dad before him

[aimforcentermass]

"I know that's how your kind works, you only focus on whatever you claim to be the argument at the moment of convenience, while ignoring the whole issue at hand."

I objected to you creating an false argument on my behalf, which is hardly ignoring anything. If you really want to debate me on a particular topic, I'll easily poke holes in your position. You're severely outclassed, intellectually.

[truepaths]

aimforcentermass, then why the hell did you join this argument if it's not about about the issue? to prove how "high class and intellectual" you THINK you are? Not only you haven't proven shit, but you ignore facts at your convenience, and that makes you even lower than the nazi-wannabe scum who are trying to mask their true agenda. Go back under the rock you crawled out of, you insecure p.o.s. Nobody here cares about debating with you for the sake of just giving you a boner, asswipe

[aimforcentermass]

You know absolutely nothing of my premise or what I think, regarding the Supreme Court decision, so quit misrepresenting my platform because it suits your prejudiced mode of irrational thinking.

I have responded to a few comments in the hopes of exchanging ideas, or challenging preconceived thoughts, so that everyone bearing witness to the discussion may learn.

Why are you here?

[truepaths]

keep contradicting everything you type, keep thinking you're so smart nobody can see through your bullshit. Maybe I'm the only one you're noticing now, but more of us are taking note of all the filthy mind games scumbags like you try to play to derail everyone from the true issues...

[aimforcentermass]

"keep contradicting everything you type"

Please copy/paste my alleged 'contradictions' in your response.

[truepaths]

Other details of the test involved suggestions that the test should have used a weighted score similar to other communities that have had less problems with racial disparity issues. Other issues arose regarding content validity and the failure of the test designers to subject and present their methods to objective, outside fire department experts and a scientifically valid cutoff score — as specified in the Industrial/Organizational Solutions, Inc. contract with the City of New Haven.

[truepaths]

AND FURTHER MORE aimforcentermass, on admission of test writers, the test involved contradictory information, increasing the chance that items selected would potentially have correct answers or incorrect answers that were open to interpretation and dispute. NOW, shoot me another one, PLEASE.

[leemil4]

Nazi-wannabe, huh? Haven't heard that one before. How original.

I know the test bias theory, and of course a firefighting test constitutes more than putting water on flames. The test bias theory is scientifically shoddy and is a wild attempt at explaining racial differences in performance. Either way you spin it, the white firefighters were denied promotions because the black firefighters didn't pass, and that is blatant discrimination that CAN be proven, unlike the "test bias" theory.

[truepaths]

leemil4 just because I was the one to call it out doesn't make it any less of a fact. The supreme court agrees they should get credit because they passed the test, doesn't mean they agreed the tests are not biased. It's two different problems you're trying to mix up to justify your whitey friends will get a free pass like you hope your other white-robed brothers will murk things up in your favor when it's your turn

[leemil4]

Hahaha! Keep on bringing up the Nazi/KKK/fascist imagery. It always works better than common sense and logical thought, and most certainly makes you seem intellectually superior.

[leemil4]

Whenever non-white people fail to perform, people like you crawl out of the woodwork and blame every possible thing except the people involved: you blame the tests, the "system" (whatever the hell that is), white people, inherent "biases" in everything on the damn planet...everything is blamed except the people involved. It must be nice to live in a world without personal responsibility and accountability. It's an old, tired argument.

[MrAppleseed88]

@leemil4 that is because blacks live in a lie that they think they are our equals.

[bbpro]

I gave your comment a thumbs down.

[occles]

YES! Victory and True Justice! DOWN WITH LIBERAL RACISM!!!!

[GeneralMonkMonk]

Ah... know your history. Nixon was responsible for setting up quotas for minority hiring practices. For the record, the minority group that gained the most from these practices were/are WHITE women.

[sharinganclan213]

lol. this made me laugh because its partly true for a lot of minorities.

[sharinganclan213]

i mean test

[sharinganclan213]

so the state refused to poromote whites just because balcks were not able to pass the state?

[munseym]

Sotomayor blames her own low SAT scores on racial bias, but she still got into Yale on affirmative action. Just the kind of race-baiter we need in the Supreme Court.

[jdlaporte001]

Its absolutely absurd to think the test is bias toward any race. Either you study and know the material or you don't Did the books somehow refuse to give the information to the blacks that tried to read from them?

If the answer to a question is true and you put false then you got it wrong. Don't be mad at a test just because you are an idiot.

I have a series called Standing Firm where I discuss topics like this. If you would like to see more, click jdlaporte001 above and subscribe.

[arequipa1]

if the black firefighters wanted to get promoted, perhaps they should have just STUDIED HARDER and done better on the test LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES.

oh and "it's going to go further"... LMAO! the US supreme court already ruled, the shit stops here! ain't nowhere left for you to go!!!

[arequipa1]

it's a sad state of affairs for blacks if they can't pass the test AND potentially could resort to litigation claiming the test is "racist."

if blacks want to advance in society, they need to cut the bullshit and start advancing.

[GeneralMonkMonk]

This is the kind of misinformation that wackos on the right love to run with. It wasnt a pass/fail test. The highest scores would earn promotions.

As for your last comment. You're absolutely right. Black people need to get their heads out of that foolish fairy tale called the bible,and, pick up a history book so they know what and who they are really dealing with.

[arequipa1]

so what that it wasn't pass/fail? you study hard, you score higher. that simple. there doesn't need to be a double standard for blacks.

and what do you mean "who they are really dealing with"?

[Seer1126]

I have a 357 that is ready for your racist family grey mater]

I forgot only white people can be racist

[GiovannaNYC]

Affirmative action is a crutch for blacks and a bonus paycheck for the ACLU. It's an excuse for alleged minorities to take jobs they are not qualified for. Sotomoyer is a racist bitch and does NOT deserve to sit on the bench of the highest court of the land and decide who will get affirmative action justice! Its too bad that so much effort has to be put into stating the obvious. someday common sense will prevail. Congratulations guys!

[kantwinnada]

We had a similar problem here with the police department. Not enough minorities were passing the test to become a cop. So they changed the test! 

WTG! Firefighters!!!!!

[MishuTaste]

Sometimes you have to choose between political correctness and justice.

[Beadbud5000]

Some of these comments need not to turn this into something it is not.

[FarFromEquilibrium]

Advice to the black guy who said 'there is still work to be done'

yes.. STUDY HARDER next time, buddy!

[EuthanizeReligion]

"Reverse discrimination"?

America loves being redundant.

[FarFromEquilibrium]

HELL FUCKING YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Squirelbutt]

About time....