Arkansas Coach gets pissed and ejected

[PriceRight89]

The pitch has to hit him and the batter has to make an effort to avoid being hit (or had no opportunity to avoid the pitch). Dave has a valid argument since he flinched a little late.

[littlemann211]

he did move, i saw he didnt have much time to react but he DID move, bad call umps like Van Horn said, your worthless

[hunt4isu]

Here is the ACTUAL rule. The batter must make an effort to avoid being struck by a pitch, no matter where he is located in the box. This is all based off the umpires judgement. If he fails to make an attempt, the ball is called dead, and a ball or strike is added to the count, depending on the location of the pitch. For those of you who are stating that standing in there and taking the hit is just part of the game, I have this to say to you; what happened to "real" baseball? The swing the bat m

[jthornton17]

If a player is in the box like he was in this case, why should he have to do a dance and get out of the way? He's where he should be. If he leaned out into the plate, he shouldn't go to first and it should be called a strike. It's that simple.

[jthornton17]

It's funny, half the Astros players in the 90's (Bagwell and Biggio) woud've never made it to first. lol. I remember they would always stick out their elbow with that huge pad to get hit by the pitch.

[KrappieKing13]

Van Horn FTW

[Clackergille]

i love dave van horn

[buddaman200522]

Must be a personal best for Dave.

[bi2708]

You are all Idiots, anyone that knows baseball knows that you are taught to take the hit.

[Supersonicsfan12]

@bi2708 i 100% agree with you. ive played baseball for 9 years and i know to take the hit in that situation. he just sat there and took it like he was suppose to do. its not like he moved into it intentionally or something. bad call by ump.

[Shawn3300]

The rule is if his arm is over the plate he wont get the base, you can be totaly in the box and not have to move to get the base if hit, but if you hang over the plate then this is what happends like in the video

[Supersonicsfan12]

@Shawn3300 dude it was clearly gonna be a ball. that was way too much inside to be a strike. look at it carefully.

[Supersonicsfan12]

and also, when you look from the side angle the ball hits his elbow which is way above his waist, probably right about at his chest. so it would've been way high too. the catcher just did a good job from pitcher's view to make it look like a strike. thats what there trained to do. definitely a bad call by the umpire.

[buddaman200522]

@Shawn3300 Finally, someone that knows the rules

[MrTapcam]

@Shawn3300 Um.. that's not right at all... the only rule is you got to make an attempt to get out of the way

[yeahmedude]

Van Horn was pretty upset about the ump enforcing the rule.

[quest8899]

The ump waited a while before ejecting him

[AmazingRaceMontreal]

Great call. Dumb coach making a show for nothing.

[oldaardvark]

What if the batter freezes and the ball hits him in the head? This is not rare. Do they revive him and prop him up in the batter's box?

[tridge5]

Gettin ejected in the bottom of the first!! I like it! Pig sooieeeee!... Or whatever they say!

[trmptplyr100]

That coach is a complete and total IDIOT! The player didn't even flinch for crying out loud!!!

[dkatzism]

Great example for our kids.  Big man.

[cdubmoney11]

Call could of gone either way. I say if it's a fastball let him take the base....off speed pitchkeep him in the box.

[oldaardvark]

@cdubmoney11 That sounds reasonable. I'd hate to be told I had not made a sufficient attempt to avoid a Strasburg fastball, for example. It's a call that should be very rare.

[buddaman200522]

Van Horn ejected? HAHA

[captmclain]

hahahaha. Couldn't have happened to a nice guy. Van Horn is a major league dick. Has been since he was head coach at Texarkana Junior College.

[JCSCougar]

The kid didn't move one inch. The umpire is right. Call it a "foul ball" and finish the AB

[MageMasher007]

@JCSCougar its not a foul ball you dumbass, it would be called a ball since it was out of the strike zone and the count goes to 3-2

[sonusman]

He moved towards the pitch. I would have kept him in the box too!

[bijoukaiba]

Dave Van Horn is like the Lou Piniella of college baseball. The Razorbacks were actually playing baseball here at UF yesterday, and we won the game because the Arkansas catcher tried to stand in the path of the runner to try to catch the ball BEFORE it was thrown to him. If I understand correctly, that counts as obstruction and the runner is therefore allowed to advance to the base he would've made it to, thus giving the Gators the winning run in the 9th. Van Horn certainly was not happy...

[oldaardvark]

The call is horseshit.

[richz4life]

I used to umpire. The batter maintained his original stance with his ELBOW in its original position when he was struck. if a pitcher, seeing a batter's stance in the batters box, CANNOT AVOID hitting him, then the batter is NOT intentionally trying to get hit. therefore base on balls would be correct call. wrong call here

[59bluehen]

According to official NCAA rule interpetation, the batter should not be awarded a abse because he did not attempt to avoid the pitch. This video was shown at the NCAA Umpire Clinic.

[bagpiper2005]

Dave Van Horn = crybaby.

He's the Bobby Knight of baseball. I'm glad he lost. Haha.

[gormar21487]

I think this is one of the rules that the NCAA will sit down and analyse... becuase it's such a hard call to make... because then the batter can argue the fact that the pitch was coming soo fast at him that he had no time to move out of the way... some of those breaking ball when jump at you and then break to the inside of the plate... so you hav't to lean into some pitches.... bad call by the umpire.

[oldaardvark]

I think that this call should never be made unless it's completely obvious that the batter is attempting to get hit, and it's a bad call here. Major league umpires call it right.

[vaibanez17]

Hey LSU we'll see you Monday Night, you better bring it because Arkansas has been murdering everybody including the top ranked team in the CWS, Cal State Fullerton!

[gormar21487]

yall better be able to beat Virginia and then come back and be able to beat LSU 2 times if you want to get to the championship game.

[garzac00l]

that was a good call

[wildjoker12000]

sportstyler, the ump left the batter at home not because he didn't see the hit batsman, but because in his judgment the batter didn't seek to avoid being hit - he just stood there and got plunked. The rulebook is clear on this, no attempt to avoid, no free base. Now what defines an attempt is the gray area. Van Horn got dumped for arguing a judgment call, and if he hadn't swore at the ump, probably woulda stayed in the game. He played himself that time.

[sportstyler50]

That umpire doesn't know what he saw.. That ball clearly hit the player. Its alright coach..GO HOGS!!!!

[ILOVEUMPS]

Sports - you clearly do not know the game that well. The umpire knew he got hit. He kept him at the plate because he did not make an attempt to avoid being hit. Van Horn was arguing that he did make an attempt and cursed at the plate umpire.

[gormar21487]

the argue wasnt that the ball hit the batter is was wheather or not the batter put any effort in trying to avoid getting hit... Geaux TIgers...

[SPORTSCARDKID]

lol funny coach

[critter2]

try harder please...

[critter2]

A mercy rule may be in use, which terminates play when one team is ahead by 10 or more runs after seven innings (6½ innings if the home team is winning). In games that are scheduled for seven innings the rule takes effect in the fifth. This rule is not used in NCAA tournament games. Several conferences institute this rule only on Sundays or the final day of a conference series, so that the visiting team can travel on time.

You still want to tell me the rules is diffrent in pro and mlb?

[critter2]

rules of college baseball are similar to the Official Baseball Rules. Exceptions include the following:

The bat may be made of wood or of aluminum or a metal or composite material that meets NCAA standards.

The designated hitter rule is used. In addition, a player may serve as both pitcher and DH at the same time and may remain in one position when removed in the other.

[critter2]

this is all levels this even includes litte leauge this is all levels. YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN APPMET TO MOVE. look it up.

[weathermanfsu]

that rule changed this season in the NCAA. They said if the pitch was out in the box, out of the zone, no attempt was needed.

[bagpiper2005]

That is easily the STUPIDEST rule change ever.

[DennieLemeux]

Why? Why should it be the batter's responsibility to "avoid" the pitch? If the pitcher is going to throw at the batter, the batter should have a right to stand his ground and take the HBP. As long as he doesn't lean into the pitch and get hit intentionally, the rule should allow the batter to stand still and take it.

[bagpiper2005]

Because it's unfairly giving the offensive team an advantage. By your logic, we should let an overthrow that goes into the first base dugout be a home run. Hey, it left the field, and they'd be chasing that ball until the cows come home had that dugout not been there, right? Same logic. You lose.

[DennieLemeux]

Get back to me if you want to use any logic in your ramblings.

The dougout is DBT.

The batter has established his position in the box. If the defense doesn't want to give him first base, don't throw at him. As long as he doesn't lean into the pitch, why should he have to move?

[bagpiper2005]

Well, so is anything past the outfield fence, yet it's a home run. Hmmm...double-standard much?

I also believe that in 99% of cases, batters get hit accidentally. Nobody intends to bean a batter (well, if they did and that was their clear intention, that's a different story, in which case the pitcher would be ejected).

But, until you put on that blue shirt you don't have any right to bitch. I've umpired for 7 years...and until you know what it's like, shut the fuck up.

[DennieLemeux]

I've umpired for 22 years. I just don't think the burden should be on the batter to attempt to avoid the pitch. If he doesn't move, he should get first.

This was a good call as the rule is written.

[fuchenstein]

@DennieLemeux Then you don't know the rule.

[gormar21487]

good point... I do kind of agree that the defensive side does have somewhat of an advantage like mondays call in the CWS... that play at first base was definatly a tie so tie goes to the runner.. and yes I am an LSU fan and i'll admit that was a bad call... Dave Van Horn had every reason to be upset.

[bagpiper2005]

Actually nowhere in the rules does it say tie goes to the runner. That appears nowhere in the rulebook.

[gormar21487]

oh really.. well I always heard that the tie goes to the runner, but I thought that was part of the rules...

[bagpiper2005]

That's an old misconception and a common one. Some umpires will call it one way, others will call it another. I just call the way I see it. As long as the umpire calls a tie consistently one way or the other on both sides, so be it.

[oldaardvark]

Does the rule say that for an out to be made the ball must be caught before the runner touches the base? (I really don't know) If it does, a tie goes to the runner.

[bagpiper2005]

The rule states that the runner is safe if he beats the throw.

So with that terminology, it's really hard to say what they mean.

[jthornton17]

it's one thing if you lean into it. I get sick of all these guys with body armor like their in the army, who hang into the plate to get hit. They should do that with them. BUt he's not over the plate and stands strait up and gets hit. I mean come on. Obviously the umpire has something against Arkansas or is just being a dick.

[critter2]

no its the right call

[juliet97]

it's not the right call. If he went into the picth like all these mlb guys do now, it would be. I wished they would call it in mlb when they do that. But in this case he did not.

[critter2]

yes excatly it is this is all level rules

the batter does not attempt to avoid the pitch, he is not awarded first base 6.08 the ball is dead no runners may advance runner gets a ball in else in strike zone its a stirke. "APPROVED RULING: When the batter is touched by a pitched ball which does not entitle him to first base, the ball is dead and no runner may advance."

[dave0mary]

You guys have a foolish, unwinnable argument going here because this was a JUDGEMENT call. There is no "good call" or "bad call" on a judgement play. There's just the call. Another ump might have given him the awarded first, maybe not. It would still be the right call. Fans need to get that drilled into their heads.

[critter2]

alot of umpires would of give him te base. cause they dont want to deal with coachs like this. most if not all umpires would award him for first base.

[DennieLemeux]

That was the right call.

The rule is different in the pros. In the pros, you don't have to attempt to get out of the way, you just can't intentionally get hit. The pro rule is better, but in this case, it was a good call.

[critter2]

the rules are diffrent in pro.. i got that from MLB RULE BOOK.

nice try.

[DennieLemeux]

Critter, the pro rule is different (or was, it may have changed since I went to school). It's a subtle difference, but in pro ball, you can stand your ground and take an HBP. Until last year, the same applied to H.S. (I'm not sure about college) In 2008, it was changed to require the runner to make an attempt to avoid the pitch. Before that, as long as the batter didn't lean into the pitch, he got first base.

I agree with you that this was a good call.

[critter2]

i showed you damn proof what else do you want? i am done :|

[DennieLemeux]

The MLB rule has changed. You're right. The "attempt to avoid" part is a newer rule change.

You know critter, there's no need for you to act like a fucking tool. I like to look at these videos because it's a chance to see some unusual plays and maybe discuss them with other umpires who actually know something about baseball. Maybe having a civil discussion with you is impossible.

[critter2]

i wasnt bein a tool and i know this rule been in place for mlb for awhile ill be back to answer your question for high school. (cooking something)

[DennieLemeux]

The most recent MLB rules I have are for 1995. It was a new rule in H.S. for 2008. They change the wording every now and then.

[critter2]

1995 is a new? thats along time ago to me.

its also been in the little leauge rule book and baberuth rule book.

[DennieLemeux]

I guess. Time kind of flies.

It was changed in 2008 for H.S.

[DennieLemeux]

Honest question:

You're the plate umpire at a H.S. game. The pitcher throws a fastball right at the batter (no intent). The batter doesn't move, but does tence up as the ball hits him in the arm. It's one of those pitches that would have hit him no matter what- there was little or no time to get out of the way.

Do you give him first?

[critter2]

of course you can its a judement by the umpire would i most likey.

[critter2]

it dosent make sense since most of the rules in the leauges i do are simliar to baseball. i dont see why high school would be the last one to change in 2008. espcailly when baberuth,litte leauge and calripken have that same excat rule in place.

in fact it was in that last year as well as the other years before that.

[calice1]

that was a terrible call

[critter2]

flase that was a great call you have to have effort to move it stated right in the rule book.

[higg51]

eh, he moved a little bit, but it wasn't enough to count as an attempt.

[amn22492]

i think it was enough. some people dont have fast reactions to things like that ;)

[critter2]

oh please he was trying to get hit "take one for the team"

[hbkdfw]

Slow reactions but he plays college baseball. Something about that doesnt add up.

[bondsmen25]

In college baseball you don't have to get out of the way as long as your in the batters box. That is why Van Horn was so pissed.

[coreylsu21]

AR-KANSAS SUCKS!!!!!

[bagpiper2005]

Not only that, but David Van Horn is such a crybaby.

They need to call the "waaaaaaambulace" on his ass.

[relientscrapper77]

hahahah 50-48 BITCH! and it aint AR-KANSAS its ARKANSAS BABY! i dont guess your players had the chance to read our football jerseys cuz they they were always lookin at the back!

[mebarb2]

HAHAHAHA. LOOOOZA.

[yellvilledude]

PIG SOOOOIIII GOTTA LOVE THEM HOGS

[Bigred4411]

go hogs go  wooooooo pig sssssssooooooooooooooooooooooo­ooiiiiiiiiiiiii

[Slippinginar]

Dave Van Horn is the man when it comes to Arkansas baseball. In case you didn't know that don't comment!

[bainsey89]

Either way, that call wasn't worth Van Horn getting that irate. Someone in his position should know better.

[DennieLemeux]

That wasn't a bad call at all. If he'd have gotten first, the umpire would have had to eject the other coach.

[Slippinginar]

Fuck your sister

[jtot95ya]

that call was HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

[critter2]

how is hat a horrible call? i wish more mlb would make this call more.

Slim- you are suppose to try to get out of the way of a ball coming to hit you. That said most of the time players get the bag.

[jthornton17]

I think that's the biggest b.s. thinking in america and sports. Unless you're hanging over the plate, and he was not, you can't hit a guy. It's absolute b.s. to say a player should have to make an extra effort to get out of the way of a ball heading for him. THat's an absolute b.s. idea. As for the guys who hang over the plate, I'm all for it. In this case, he was clearly not over the plate.

[critter2]

It states in the rule book you have to move out of the way. Or you dont get award firstbase.

you have to have effort its part of the rules. It has nothing to do with being over the plate

[executionsk8er45]

your supposed to turn back towards the catcher like he did it hit him as he was turning you cant just jump outta the way of that one you idiot maybe if you played baseball you'd know wtf your talking about

[critter2]

First of you got to get out of the way if he can. second he lean into pitch thrid i umpire and watch baseball for awhile.

I think i know the rules more than a a fan who knows nothing.

[executionsk8er45]

you are a fan who knows nothing faggot

[Boogyman1978]

Good calls by the umpire.

[Slippinginar]

Fuck your mother

[SlimHonke]

i don't get it, the pitcher nailed him and he didn't get a base. that must be what the coach is yelling about

[OlGuyWicker]

That's some crap, The pitch was high and inside, he didn't have much time to move when the damn thing is headed right at you.  He did flinch back.

[bagpiper2005]

Jesus...you CAN'T win with umpires...so why even bother?

I retired from umpiring last year...I got sick of it...I was also probably the quickest ejection in my division :P

[wnrii]

good riddance!

[bagpiper2005]

Hey...you better thank your lucky stars people are brave enough to put that blue shirt on!

If you didn't, you wouldn't have baseball!!! Of course, unless you put in robotic umpires...but that would take some of the fun out of the game...the strike zone would be the same every time...no adjustment to the strike zone of that day!

In my judgment, that was the correct call, by the way.

[junctionboys]

Amen brother. Probably the most thankless job in all of sports is an official, kind of like Jackie Robinson in that you've gotta take the heat but can't lash out.

[kansanchief]

Great calls by the Blue!

Although I dont mind the coach going nutz, for it was a interpertation of the call that he was biotchin about!

Id of biotced too, but, not to such an extreme, there are better times for that!

( a coach of coaches I be )

[Boogyman1978]

Good call by the umpire on both accounts. That is a rule that many umpires are afraid to enforce, but if they did more often, there wouldn't be so many reactions like this one in baseball.

[junctionboys]

He's a program builder (Nebraska), but my opinion of him went straight down the toilet.

[arkansasboi33]

well...he usually doesnt do that but shon jones should have got to go to first

[ghimraab]

Dude, it's the first inning. Why does he want to be so close to another man's face? Creepy and weird.

[pachardos]

1:50 to 1:53 "You piece of shit! you're worthless!" LOL...Classic...and bad call..Umps need to rid themselves from baseball before they get killed. Let's take advantage of technology...lol

[fiItxon]

Damn, you read him perfect!

[Hiei2k7]

It's a bad day if Van Horn DOESN'T get ejected.

[rcr6264]

what kinds of a rule is that? he didn't attempt to get out of the way? those balls travel 80 or 90 mph. this ain't neo in the fuckin matrix. how about some damn ball control.

[larsen550]

Haha a rule placed so guys cant lean out in front of a 60 mph knuckle and get hit.

[Robertg71]

That coach was classic....already ballistic with the 1st words came out of his mouth....

[christypie18]

Its not like he turned INTO it. That ball is coming so fast.. and it was at the elbow, so its not like he had much time to react and he DID shy away from it. That rule sucks.

[TrojanTechie]

Judgement call...

Easy as that.

Read Section 9 in the MLB Rule Book People.

Cheers!

[Bluesteve32]

They are playing NCAA rules, which are different. A few years ago, anytime a batter was hit he was given first, but too many "took one for the team" so they did put back the "make a reasonable attempt to avoid getting hit" verbiage back in about four ot five years ago.

[woopig001]

For those of you who don't know, the rule about having to attempt to get out of the way is gone in college baseball. Now the judgment is whether or not the player is out of the batter's box.

[Bradsoxxer]

I wonder what he was saying

[hogfan13]

I read it before he got tossed

"Oh bull crap man, your full of crap!"

[sadler57]

good call Blue. Coach made an ass of himself. I would have at least said something back if I were the man behind the plate

[Phillsfan101]

that was funny good call blue

[DNS67665]

Fuck that shitty umpire. He's been in the SEC forever and he's always been a piece of shit umpire.

[wrcook2]

The umpire had the right call. I don't know what Dave Van Horn was arguing about. It is obvious that the guy didn't make an attempt to get out of the way. GOOD CALL BLUE!!!!!!

[nmitch05]

ur dumb

[dhsforward1993]

what a little p*ssy b*tch