just cus u have not went threw what afro americans have and u dnt c because maybe u go to school and have a few white friends
And i c u like White music LOL on ur page (blink 182) that u think people like Tupac,Idi amin,Kume Nkruma are crazy but i say u should listen because thy are speaking frm expreience even tho u might not agree with everything but still listen(I dont) u might learn something. outside of the box that u r in Because thes people were not Great 4 Nothing
@eazydee415 What is your point exactly? Idi Amin was definitely insane but as much a western puppet who turned on the hand that fed him like so many other African and Middle Eastern dictators. I love Tupac. I don't think he's crazy. What box is it that I am in, exactly? The box that says Africa had a wonderful and complex history that needs to be equally valued and investigated? Seeing as you define music by skin colour, I'm not sure I'm the only one who needs to go outside the box.
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and his hairs were like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
What color is brass when it's burned in a furnace?
There are two variants of the black race: (a) straight-haired, represented in Asia by the Dravidians and in Africa by the Nubians and the Tubbou or Tedda, all three with jet-black skins; (b) the kinky-haired blacks of the Equatorial regions. Both types entered into the composition of the Egyptian population
@Sapphonouveau And why you're referring to a Hebraic version of a Sumerian myth for historical evidence for anything more material than contemporary impressions and opinions, I honestly have no idea. The myth implies that all peoples are descended from Noah which is clearly wrong going by the geological and genetic record. Like I said, try not to use the Bible like that.
all egyptians(kemetians) were black...GENESIS chapter 10-16(table of nations) "ans these are the sons of noah" NOAH begat HAM(ham being the progenitor of all black nations)HAM begat CAANAN,CUSH(ethiopia),PHUT(somolia),LIBIDIUM(libya),and MIZRAIM(egypt-kemet). this passage alone proves the origins and race of the egyptians...take a look at all their art work..read their books about where their from..up the nile..the nile flows from south to north.up river your going south
@eazydee415 Firstly, all that tells you is that the ancient Hebrews considered the Egyptians black, but as we've been saying, which you clearly haven't noticed, this doesn't mean anything. The Egyptians, whom the Hebrews and Greeks considered black, didn't consider themselves to be black, rather, they called the Nubians black (who again, would probably do the same to sub-saharan west africans, who again would do the same to central africans, ad infinitum). What makes this passage right anyway?
@Sapphonouveau Secondly, I just said that the origins of the kemetic people was from the south. Humans started migrating from the horn of africa, going north (a region that includes egypt, nubia and the north regions of the sahara which is south of egypt), south, west and further east. The last surge from the south (northern-central sahara) came around the time of the desertification of the Sahara.
There are two variants of the black race: (a) straight-haired, represented in Asia by the Dravidians and in Africa by the Nubians and the Tubbou or Tedda, all three with jet-black skins; (b) the kinky-haired blacks of the Equatorial regions. Both types entered into the composition of the Egyptian population
@eazydee415 So what? You've determined race by skin colour (which is fine), whereas others are determining it using definitions based on skull shape (which is also fine). You're all using different units of measurement, no wonder you keep arguing. It's like one person is using metric and the other imperial. Seriously, I am not interested and I find all this irrelevant. How hard is it for you to understand this?
@Sapphonouveau Man listen and stop talkn u want to argue im not a debater check out some of the stuff that i said to look at and figure out what u believe
But anyway it goes its more things pointing To what u call afrocentrist r saying to being right than wrong and Blacks in America have dealt with whites and kno that for the most part thy are against us So whn sum1 Like Dr Clarke or Farakhan Or Malcom X speaks its not paranoia its real
@eazydee415 So your point is white people can be racist. Thank you for telling me what my parents have told me from my birth.
So what has this to do with the shift in Yoruban art traditions from realistic to abstracted? What can this tell me about the rise of the Aro Confederacy and it's impact on neighbouring Igbo city-states? Can this tell me who the first ruler of Zimbabwe was and what led to the fall of the kingdom?
@eazydee415 So your point is white people can be racist. Thank you for telling me what my parents have told me from my birth and informing me of what I have experienced first hand.
So what has this to do with the shift in Yoruban art traditions from realistic to abstracted? What can this tell me about the rise of the Aro Confederacy and it's impact on neighbouring Igbo city-states? Can this tell me who the first ruler of Zimbabwe was and what led to the fall of the kingdom?
@eazydee415 So your point is white people can be racist. Thank you for telling me what my parents have told me from my birth and informing me of what I have experienced first hand.
So what has this to do with the shift in Yoruban art traditions from realistic to abstracted? What can this tell me about the rise of the Aro Confederacy and it's impact on neighbouring Igbo city-states? Can this tell me who the first ruler of Zimbabwe was and what led to the fall of the kingdom?
@eazydee415 And I have to say, what is with people like you and giving advice that you don't care to follow yourselves? I'm told not to label, whilst being called a white supremacist. I'm told not to make judgements based on knee jerk reactions, whilst being condemned because I said something in a way they didn't like. You tell me to stop talking and listen, when you haven't listened to a thing I've said. I have listened to you, I have read your spam. What do you want me to say?
@Sapphonouveau (4) As for southern influences, it depends what you mean. Ancient Egypt didn't have the same borders as modern Egypt and we know ancient Nubia was south of Kemet. That combined with archeological and architectural artefacts (+similarity in scripts etc) shows there were shared origins and thus probably some later influences, but how southern is southern?
@Sapphonouveau (5) I will also add that due to the insularity and conservativism of the ancient Kemetic people, it seems to me that any influence would probably have been resisted and if acquired, only by small degrees over a comparatively long period of time. It's interesting how non-Kemetic invaders/settlers/interlopers were often the ones to adopt Kemetic culture (briefly thinking about the Hyskos, Nubian and Ptolomeic occupations/eras) rather than the Kemetic people adopt theirs.
1This is the danger of knee jerk responses to so called "triggers" in lieu of sober and correct reasoning.
That quote from the Protocols of the Learned elders of Zion examples perfectly the conduct by those who have an aversion to the common long known fact of "Black Egypt". Many times thier objections are only valid bc they exist not bc they ex. any truth...more
@Sunstance6 2They serve to simply cast doubt. Goto whiteweasle420's page & observe his interests "Sabotage Expert, Subversion & demoralization. Then view his activities. Here is someone who knows the truth but objects to cast doubt. There are plenty of weasles on this tool. Most are less imprudent as to tell the truth of thier adgenda. I kno he's here so I'm curious to see how long it takes him to change that after this.lol
@Sunstance6 My issue wasn't about the quote. My issue was you implying a zionist conspiracy against African history or some such thing (and the fact you sourced a paper written by a historian who has been criticised by Nigerian academics didn't exactly warm me to you). As for knee jerk responses, we're all guilty of those. I hope you're as careful to take your own advice!
@Sapp 1U've shown u can go tit for tat. But so what? If truth is not the end then what is the use of intellectual back n forth. Arguing for the sake of argument does damage to the people who r not studious to follow up. Defense lawyers R great at spinning arguments against truth to spring guilty defendants (prosecuters too). Saying this cus the protocols are evidenced. Did u read the book? I use my own sight before anybody's critique of anything. I dont jump on bandwagons.
@Sunstance6 2N you speaking Afrocentricity as tho its a bad word like the racists do (zionists and more) set up an icy intro to me as well. Im an African living in ameriKKKa. If I'm not african centered, IDing with with my ancestors, uncovering my history n heritage (read-shit has been hidden) then I am brainwashed. Theres 2 much dignity in me to settle for brainwash. And the brainwashed R easily discernable by ALL others and are tolerated but not respected in the least.
@Sunstance6 I'm with you on the first point. Argument for arguments sake is just vanity fun though it may be.
It's good to know you're not one for bandwagons either but as ever. I'm not against afrocentrism per se - it's a narrative, a metaphysical entity no better or worse than Eurocentrism or Asiocentrism etc etc - but I am (for the however many-th time) sceptical of some of the claims made by Afrocentrists.
@Sapphonouveau yes i know race is more of a social term than genetic reality(tell rahotep and his friends that) but that social term has become real. yes Egyptians dont call themselves "black" , neither does Sudanese or people who are Swahili. both are darker than me or you. in fact many "west Africans" wont call themselves "black" either. its become sought of a boogie word. Eurocentrism has a lot to do with that also.
@kingzula remember you said you wanted real facts.like you said. you got to look at the real story. you got go with an open mind, if not all you do is validate the falsities on both sides of the issue
@kingzula I have to be honest, I'm getting a bit annoyed, so forgive me if I get too rude.
(1) I was not originally interested in debunking anyone. My idea was to investigate the history of Africa, people by people, taking it back as far as the records go. I started with the (Abagana) Igbo people as it would be easiest seeing as I'm Igbo and my clan are from Abagana, but then I'd do the same for the other Igbo groups then the rest of the Nigerian ethnicities and then Ghanaian, Cameroonian...
@Sapphonouveau (2)...and so on. I started my investigations with recording what my parents had been taught (and the next trip to Nigeria I'll be able to do a wider investigation with the help of family elders) and then looking online to see what other people might have found and what areas needed a closer look. What I found was a lot of conjecture that people kept passing as absolute fact that didn't have adequate evidence and if it did, hadn't been adequately analysed to back their claims...
@Sapphonouveau (3)...Being a pedant who likes history and studies a subject where what can be used as proof is carefully considered before you even begin looking for evidence, at first this was just weird but not atypical. But then the more I saw it and the more I realised it was often driven by an unquestioned ideology and the more I saw how little online academic work one could refer to, the more irritating it became until I exploded and posted a rant on the subject.
@Sapphonouveau (4) I am not against the idea that all africans were ancient Egyptians. I disagree with it, not because it's stupid but because there isn't enough evidence and it goes against what evidence we already have. I am not against the idea that all ancient egyptians were originally Igbo or caucasian or even martians from outer space. I disagree with it, not because it's stupid but because there isn't enough evidence and it goes against what evidence we already have. This is my mantra...
@Sapphonouveau (5)... and whilst I know I am not the best communicator in the world, I really don't get why this is so hard for people to understand (apart from by the only other two black sceptics on youtube!). I have been insulted, threatened, given patronising advice for something I haven't even said, care about or - as it happens - believe in. I don't see how much more of an open mind one can have unless you define that as having an infinite number of contradictory ideas...
@Sapphonouveau (6)...as demonstrated by the exchanges in the comments for this video. What exactly is this 'real' story I have to look at beyond that which I am currently investigating? This is probably just me projecting but at the moment all I'm getting is this weird concern that oh no this one actual African is trying her damndest to do objective research and her conclusions might not agree with what a bunch of outdated idealogues thought. It was patronising before but now it's infuriating.
@kingzula It's funny you mentioned how many west africans don't call themselves black as I was going to mention an anecdote from my parents when they first arrived in the UK but yes, it's a social term which is important just not for the reasons some Afrocentrists think. I focus on Afrocentrists because they are the ones I've happened to come across and they also seem to assume by dint of skin colour that our issues/perspectives are the same, not because I think they're the worst of all time.
i know your not interested in the "ancient Egyptian race controversy" so i dont plan to go on and on about it with you, but you know because of the subject you choose to discuss this subject will probably come up over and over again.
@kingzula also if you notice in my comments i actually try and avoid the word "black" when talking about Africa because it tends to isolate. thats why i hate the term sub-Saharan Africa to because its become a code word for "black" and it makes a false assumptions about the people who live their and live in north Africa. in other words according to these so called Afrocentric debunkers north africa is theirs and "sub Saharan Africa is ours. which is bull.
@kingzula you know i google "Igbo people" and a lot of interesting things come up that tell the history(what is known) of them. its not mostly from a Afrocentric point of view. i would say its more Eurocentric. that doesnt mean it wrong or right just saying what i'm seeing.
@kingzula Yes, I know and you might remember I said that the Afrocentric influence tended to creep in on sites about igbo history/culture/etc made by igbo bloggers (specifically those who are neo-traditional religionists). A lot of what is out there online is not, weirdly enough, up to date research which is why I ended the rant by saying I'll just stick to the University library.
@kingzula Well it depends on the debunker. The ones of Egyptian descent are probably tired of yet another group of people interpreting their history as though they don't exist (first the colonial Europeans, now the post-colonial Afrocentrists...) and there's also the issue of a slight mistranslation as to what 'black' means in various contexts. Those of European descent have no more right to call it theirs than any other non-Egyptian.
@kingzula Well yes, because it seems the Afrocentrists on youtube have terrible comprehension skills. It's weird how after I specifically state that I don't really care about Ancient Egypt as such (as any connections there are will come up regardless of how explicitly you look for them) most people have focused on informing me about stuff I either already know and may well agree with but don't consider to be particularly relevant to what I am interested in. Ah well - c'est l'Internet!
book review editor of the Negro History Bulletin (1948–52), associate editor of the magazine Freedomways, and a feature writer for the Pittsburgh Courier and the Ghana Evening News
Well if she want listen to Him who knos who she'll listen 2
Also she says its Paranoia And I say its Experience
@eazydee415 Ah, so you've been observing human history since the first hominid took it's faltering steps, have you? Who would have thought - eazydee415, the uber-antedeluvian!
upported scholars in areas of history, culture, literature and the arts. He was a founding member of other organizations to recognize and support work in black culture: the Black Academy of Arts and Letters and the African-American Scholars' Council His writing included six scholarly books and many scholarly articles. He edited anthologies of black writing, as well as his own short stories, and more general interest articles.[3] He was co-founder of the Harlem Quarterly 1949–51), book review
but it is a starting point. History is a clock that people use to tell their political and cultural time of day. It is a compass they use to find themselves on the map of human geography. It tells them where they are, but more importantly, what they must be."[5]
Besides teaching at Hunter College and Cornell University, Clarke was active in creating professional associations to support the study of black culture He was a founder and first president of the African Heritage StudiesAssociationWhich
@eazydee415 Stop copying and pasting. I've read all this on an Afrocentric board before.
Why do you all seem to think that just repeating stuff will somehow make anyone agree with you? "Oh gracious, eazydee415, on the basis of your exceptional ability to copy and paste, I have truly seen the error of my ways!"
@Sapphonouveau LOL whatever U say Well I guess u can Go ask Phony7 and the crew for advise about African history
Maybe thy will tell how non african people bought civilization into Africa and that Blacks never crossed the Sahara or east Africans Are white and my favorite the 1st people in Africa werent Black
Who exactly is this Phony7 you keep referring to because I've never been in contact with them, nor have they commented on this video. Whoever they are, they could keep on telling me that but as it isn't true, I'd probably tell them to get lost, quite frankly. Why the hell I'd ask someone on youtube for advice when I have a perfectly good (world class+25 Nobel laureates!) University library 10 minutes down the road is anyone's guess.
@eazydee415 Really? I think you might mean rahotep101. Either way, this is getting silly and you are being too ridiculous. Are you suggesting that because white people have been racist against black people in the past, every white person is genetically predispositioned to be secretly working for the extermination of black people? That would be like me saying all Hausa people are still secretly working to exterminate the Igbo people based on the Biafran war.
@Sapphonouveau I must say i'm a little confused.i did just read your comments on rahotep101. are you saying that if someone says the Egyptians are were black there only stating Afrocentric wishful thinking? if i say they were black does that mean i'm claiming to be Egyptian myself or i'm trying to steal someones else history? if there is an obsession with Egypt by some Afro centrist there is also an obsession by some to say they where not black and to remove them from Africa. rahotep being one
@kingzula In some cases, yes (so not for you personally)- and I say that as someone who doesn't think that the ancient Egyptians looked like northern europeans (lol). Claiming the history of a people solely on the basis of a similar skin colour (or range thereof) is misguided at best, given what we know about genetics and human migration.
And yes, I agree that it cuts both ways. Moderation in all things is always best.
@Sapphonouveau An example might clarify things. Consider the commenter Sunstance6. Now, unless they are Egyptian, or of Egyptian heritage, I find their claim to be fighting the displacement of their ancestors from history a bit strange. If they are Egyptian, it's still strange, because ancient Egyptian history is in no way displaced or ignored (if not for egyptology, the History channel would lose whatever loose claim it had to being about History!).
@Sapphonouveau If they are referring to the history of people from Africa, again they are still wrong - but not as wrong - considering that yes there is a lack of focus on African history but that's understandable because most European and African historical narratives run in parallel and don't seriously intersect until comparatively recently.
@Sapphonouveau If they mean that no one explicitly tells you what colour of skin the ancient Egyptians had then that's not the same as being displaced. It's obvious they didn't look like northern europeans and the only people to whom that wouldn't be obvious are people from the metaphorical Dark Ages and children who, without any other reference, naturally think everyone looks like the dominant 'ideal' in their society.
@Sapphonouveau But any child who grows to think about it, will quickly realise that of course the ancient Egyptians weren't 'white'. Any child who seriously thinks about it will realise they might have thought so due to their own cultural bias and not because of some vast conspiracy to pretend black people didn't exist until the slave trade.
@Sapphonouveau Furthermore, as I keep reiterating, judging from what we know about 'race' (superficial; arbitrary; little basis on genetics or culture; basis in outdated scientific definitions) the argument is bogus. As a mere observation, calling the ancient Egyptians 'black' is nothing, albeit perhaps a little weird to Egyptians (who don't consider themselves black but would nonetheless be considered black in another context eg by the one drop rule. But then, so were Italians).
@Sapphonouveau Furthermore, as I keep reiterating, judging from what we know about 'race' (superficial; arbitrary; little basis on genetics or culture; basis in outdated scientific definitions) the argument is bogus. As a mere observation, calling the ancient Egyptians 'black' is nothing, albeit perhaps a little weird to Egyptians (who don't consider themselves black but would nonetheless be considered black in another context eg by the one drop rule. But then, so were Italians).
@Sapphonouveau It's neither good nor bad - it all depends on how you define things. To make a point of them being dark skinned as though that necessarily means you are related or their history is 'yours' in any meaningful sense besides in the general spirit of humanism, is, in my opinion, wishful thinking.
@Sapphonouveau Might I also add that the lack of focus on African history only really applies for popular history. In academic History, it is as vibrant as any other historical department. I have noticed that many Afrocentrists seem to think academic History is where it was 300 years ago (even Victorian academic historians knew Africa had a great history, documented the evidence and were safely ignored by the general public due to popular prejudice and distorted social Darwinism).
@Sapphonouveau (con) from legitimate scholars or archaeologists that present there evidence. just the Afro-centrist that make unrealistic claims. this argument that there was some sort of barrier that prevented more southern Africans from migrating to Egypt is just as much a fantasy as extreme Afrocentrism. this is all about not giving Africans no influence because Egypt is connected to the overall development of the western civilization
@kingzula But is it really? I mean, we got taught about Ancient Egypt at school but they were actually never portrayed as particularly closely connected to western civilisation, even once they get absorbed into the Roman Empire. Rather they were portrayed as incredibly exotic and mysterious - the quintessential orientalist 'other' - but definitely not European.
@Sapphonouveau Even on popular history channels, that's how they're portrayed (and no wonder because we didn't even know how to read their script until quite recently so all we had to go on was Ancient greek and Roman accounts, the former who again portrayed them as this ancient exotic race of magicians and the latter who thought they were decadent barbarians with weird gods albeit barbarians who produced lots of food).
Again, this is all about impressions, not anything concrete.
@Sapphonouveau so your saying that there no genetic, archaeological, linguistic or historical accounts that suggest a more southern influence to the prehistory or the early formation of the Egyptian civilization? what does your information suggest? how does that mean that someone is stealing or claiming their history? i notice all rahotep and his gang do is say that Egyptians were Caucasian. were is his facts and sources for the claims he makes. i notice he never comments on the videos(con)
@kingzula The funny thing about caucasians is that there are 'black' caucasians too. I believe they occupy a little known area called the sub continent of India.
(1) Genetic/archeological studies suggest migration from the time homo sapiens evolved into Nubia+Egypt etc from East Africa that had a final surge due to the desertification of the Sahara desert. This phenomenon also pushed peoples from to West+Central Africa...
@Sapphonouveau (2)...(who would mingle with those settled there to become the nations we know today) who would eventually migrate further south to join with those humans who had settled there previously. Thus the newly expanded Sahara desert did effectively create a natural barrier to (please note) mass migration and thus cultural influences for which there is archeological evidence...
@Sapphonouveau ...(3) such as pottery artefacts dated to 4000 BC which show continuity with what is considered Igbo (in Nsukka) and Kemetic (in Egypt). My point is, by circa 4000 BC, most of the peoples we know today were identifiable, settled and established within their own communities - any shared origins go much farther back in time and if it occurred, any further migration from north africa to sub saharan africa (and vice versa) did not lead to massive shifts in genetic profiles/culture.
@Sapphonouveau And technically, East Africans are caucasians too. Although laypeople use the term to mean 'white', the original term refers to groupings based on skull shapes, not necessarily skin tone and is regardless of continent of origin.
So rahotep, yourself and others can argue what they like but these are such slippery terms, I personally think getting het up over them to be nothing but stupidity and irrelevance unless one is clear from the outset what one means by them.
helped shift the way African history was studied and taught. Clarke was "a scholar devoted to redressing what he saw as a systematic and racist suppression and distortion of African history by traditional scholars." When some of the scholarship he championed was dismissed by many historians, Clarke imparted to them the biases of Eurocentric views.
He was memorialized for devoting "himself to placing people of African ancestry 'on the map of human geography'Clarke said "History is not everything,
noted that Clarke's ascension to professor emeritus at Hunters College was "unusual...without benefit of a high school diploma." The Times also acknowledged that "nobody said Professor Clarke wasn't an academic original", but nonetheless referred to him using the honorific prefix "Mr." rather than "Dr.".[3] Prominent during the Black Power movement, Clarke advocated for studies on the African-American experience and the place of Africans in world history. He challenged academic historians and
@eazydee415 Oh cut the propaganda. I didn't say anything about his academic credentials - one can be perfectly well credited and still be at best wrong and at worst an absolute loony (two to a penny in academia - happens in Physics all the time). You don't merit someone's work by how much they suffered otherwise we'd all be saying planetary orbits are circular. I personally think Dr James may have started with good intentions but went AWOL. It happens.
at Cornell University’s Africana Studies and Research Center. In 1968 along with the Black Caucus of the African Studies Association, Clarke founded the African Heritage Studies Association.
An autodidact, Clarke documented the histories and contributions of African peoples in Africa and the diaspora using an Afrocentric perspective He studied history and world literature at New York University, at Columbia University and at the League for Professional Writers
John Henrik Clarke (January 1, 1915 — July 16, 1998), born John Henry Clark, was a Pan-Africanist American writer, historian, professor, and a pioneer in the creation of Africana studies and professional institutions in academia starting in the late 1960s.
He was Professor of African World History and in 1969 founding chairman of the Department of Black and Puerto Rican Studies at Hunter College of the City University of New York.He also was the Carter G. Woodson Distinguished Visiting Professor
@GodGrandmaster Here I have to point out that certain terms used have different implications. Eurocentrism is basically the historical narrative told via the European lens and is for obvious reasons the dominant narrative. That doesn't make it inherently bad, but it means there are unconscious biases that Afrocentrism seeks to address.
It's like how amongst social justice activists, racism=prejudice+power, not just bigotry against people of different races.
@Sapphonouveau In fact, it occurs to me that in many ways, Afrocentrism (and other post-colonial historical theories) has already had some success as can be seen by the fact that historically literate people of my generation would find it weird that anyone could claim Europeans are inherently (intellectually, morally etc) better than, say, native Americans or Aborigines yet this is what was taught in schools only a few decades ago (as my father has mentioned to me).
@GodGrandmaster No profanity please. No insults. It's taken too long for this silly discussion to cool off and for people to start trusting their fellow anonymous commenters. I really don't want this wound up again. It's a waste of time and ruins a great opportunity for people with different opinions to exchange ideas.
@GodGrandmaster well you said that i was claiming a white conspiracy?were did i imply that.?once again what are you assuming about me that implies that?
@GamesInfobot Thanks for commenting and pointing out what everyone else seems to be missing. This video was intended as a rant, a shout out to other black sceptics. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am grateful it's generated so much discussion though. Shame it's mostly people with previous beef/grudges insulting each other over stuff I don't even care about.
@GamesInfobot Although, to be fair, I did say I have an issue with the focus paid on ancient Kemet, the lack of adequate data and analysis. I thought that was pretty clear... :( Maybe not.
@Sapphonouveau i think you missed the meaning i was trying to make. the text books doesnt say it was good. what it says is that it brought progress. it brought Africa out of a primitive state.it brought civility to Africa. in other words the good outweighs the bad. this is the attitude that has been ingrained into the psychology and its assumed correct.
@Sapphonouveau Of course, I do realise I take for granted the fact that I was brought up in an African culture so I never had to get over that sense of inferiority.
On a strictly historical note, as for African contributions to European history, isn't it more complicated? For eastern/Mediterranean Europe, it would be more of a factor than for Western/Northern europe til the last 3-500 years. And similarly for African history. Europe only becomes any sort of factor in the last 500 years or so.
@Sapphonouveau i do understand your annoyance with SOME Afrocentrism. this notion of a brotherhood of Africans before the white man came never existed. if it did there never would have been a slave trade or colonialism. we do need to get real facts like you said. but it has to be real facts. debunking Afrocentrism cant be the goal because that doesnt necessarily give you the facts.
@kingzula Sure, but my 'goal', as I have to keep reiterating, was never to debunk Afrocentrism. Even in my rant I was careful to mention that I have no problem with the central tenet of Afrocentrism - in fact, I applaud and completely agree with it. I am, in that sense, also Afrocentric. To be honest, I had no goal other than to start a discussion with other sceptics. If anything, I am out to debunk ideas that are wrong but even then, I am more interested in sharing what I've learned.
I am not fully ready to receive you, friend. But I am very curious of your progress. How has your self-appointed assignment advanced? It was fun talking with you. Especially the light-hearted insults. HAHAHA.
I hope that you understand me better. Please be polite when discussing "Stolen Legacy." To hear from you will show how ready you are.
Though, I did catch up with your comments, and I am ashamed of what you concede.
@ABSiblings lol Very slowly. I was actually revising for exams at the time of our first conversation, and have currently started a new semester with a new research project. My reading is going very slowly but it means I take in more, I guess (I hope!).
@Sapphonouveau Well, I hope to hear from you. You should not have called Sunstance6 an anti-semite. He brought to your attention the Igbo pyramids. I am gathering more information for our mutual benefit. We can debate across the Atlantic. :-p
@ABSiblings Anyone who starts going on about zionism and quotes from protocols of the elders of Zion automatically gets the no-vote. The funny thing is, Afrocentrists like Sunstance6 - and yourself at times - assume that if you disagree with them on one thing, you disagree with them on everything. I've read about the pyramids too, and first heard of them several years ago whilst on holiday in Nigeria no less.
@Sapphonouveau Why does everyone assume that me disagreeing with the wilder claims made by Afrocentists means I know nothing about African history, or that I don't believe we had a history etc etc especially when I've made it clear that my issues with some afrocentric narratives stem from what knowledge I have garnered of African history. It's actually getting really irritating. You don't have to be eurocentric to disagree with something some afrocentrists happen to think.
@Sapphonouveau My comments stem from your comments against putting attention to Egypt. I pointed out the pyramids to re-emphasize the relevance of praising Kemet. If you knew abut them--why question the relevance? Clearly it's relevant.
Anti-Zionism isn't Anti-Semitism. Further, quoting the protocols isn't anti-semitic. For instance Mein Kamf has great advice on Propaganda techniques; citing such isn't racist.
@ABSiblings@ABSiblings Again, this is the problem with Afrocentrists like you. You seem to have no concept of critical evaluations. I question the importance placed on Kemet because I personally don't see it. I might be wrong, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about it which is what everyone seems to be thinking. I can disagree with a historical interpretation. It doesn't mean I am ignorant of or don't believe in the original data.
@Sapphonouveau Speaking of, we can disagree about what constitutes anti-semitism. Suffice to say, I've been in these discussions before and let's just say I'm wary of anyone going on about a zionist conspiracy in a discussion that has nothing to do with Israel-Palestine.
And yes, I did imply that you insulted me. But again, that's fine because this is the internet after all and people aren't always nice. C'est la vie. I just take note of it and remember not to expect any better.
@Sapphonouveau The importance is simple. All over Africa we migrated to the most fertile land, the Nile. After racial attacks, we fled for centuries. The Nilotic experience is instrumental to understanding the African experience. We migrated to then from there. That's why it's important. We brought civilization there and brought it out. That's all.
You mistakenly think that the Igbo are universally contemporary with Kemet. That's your confusion. Igbo is after. HTP
@ABSiblings Again, please stop making assumptions about what I think (*please* It's really irritating). I do appreciate that you've given me a nicely summed narrative for me to investigate more thoroughly but again, the issue is that it doesn't fit with what evidence I've come across in my studies so I disagree with it. That's all. Again, I could be wrong in which case, well, I'm wrong but that won't be due to you just repeating the same facts.
@Sapphonouveau Ok. Happy studies. Though another thing to consider is the Twa people. What racists call the "pygmies." They started Egyptian culture. The Pyramids of Egypt were grander pyramids, not the first. It's truly they who migrated to and from. But they are also who make up West Africans. That's our shared ancestry. The different 'tribes' reflect migrations from disaster. But the commonality is the Twa--that's central, IMO. But I still investigate that. :)
@Sapphonouveau "I can disagree with a historical interpretation. It doesn't mean I am ignorant of or don't believe in the original data."
Very well said. I bet if you asked ABS for proof of what he states....he would just spam what he's already said before, and resort to calling you an ass-kisser, like other people I've encountered here that are like him.
@Sapphonouveau LOL @ eazy mentioning that people are trying to make friends with you because you disagree with other blacks. While that may be so, it's not because it's a "black against other blacks" thing... it's an observant against Afrocentric mythology thing. Just as there are whites against Eurocentric history...and see through the veil. He's such an idiot.
@kingzula Sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about. What is this Eurocentric history that is taught? That everyone comes from Europe? That the first civilizations arose in Europe? What? If so, then either you've had poor homeschooling or you don't live here. I've learned of European history, it's interactions with and exploitation of other countries, and world history. So wtf is this widespread Eurocentric history being taught?
@kingzula And I can guarantee you that in a majority white society where racism is an unacceptable attitude with most, that Eurocentric history, if really taught by some institution in the manners that I've exampled in my question to you, would be called out by another white person who sees that it is erroneous. If you deny that then the burden of proof that there is some institutional conspiracy against black people is on you.
@GodGrandmaster well your another one who's jumping to conclusions.where did i imply there's a conspiracy against black people? are you suggesting there is? you seem to be assuming something about me? is that what you feel Eurocentrism is? you've just answered your own question
@kingzula If its not a conspircy its got to b something, Cus every where that blacks populate inthe world euros came and it bought problems for Blacks No matter if it was blacks in the Americas,Africa The Aborigines in Ausralia or Negritos in south east asia or the Blacks In India
They killed all black leaders in US. Brits almost Made the Aborigenes Extinct and took over thy land. took Black Indians As slaves to carribeans and south Africa,Made Apartied in africa,Made Crack n put it n black com
@eazydee415 Some of the more recent events have been due to the impact of ideas concerning eugenics which were borne of popular distortions of Darwin's theory of evolution. The interesting thing about the Spanish/Portuguese encroachments into the Americas is that they were often denounced by contemporary ethicists. All things considered, the explicit race angle seems to be a more recent 'innovation' (heck in the early days of the British Empire, intermarriage was encouraged).
Oh my Gawd. Africans can be so stupid man. Listen, you went way off with this video. There is no obsession over Ancient Egypt. I think you're getting the word argument confused with the word obsession. And then for some reason your going off at black people who are Afrocentrics blah blah blah but you don't go off white people or Caucasian people. What is the issue with black people like you? Is it embarrassment or are you afraid or something?
@silverstrider101 Thanks for commenting! As I keep on having to explain to people, this video was a rant (not reasoned argument) primarily me blowing off steam but you're right, I am getting a little obsessed with this topic which is a good sign if ever there was one for me to stop!
But don't worry, next time I'll have a go at eurocentrics to balance it out. Then I'll stop. And hey, African-Americans can be so stupid too, man. We all have our faults.
@Sapphonouveau You don't need to go off at Eurocentrics to prove anything to anyone. Just do you. Personally, i believe this back and forth argument over Khemet is silly. Although i do believe the Pharaohs and their ppl were a bunch of egomaniac voodoo practicing blk (African) men and blk (African) women. I think the whole issue behind the argument pertains to the racist idea of black Africans never creating a culture the Caucasian world regard as rich or prosperous in culture.
@Sapphonouveau Instead of hating on other blcks tht are at least trying find out thy history and spread the word U should try to figure out y other races try so hard to say that we have not created anything obviously we had to have been doing something great
Also yes u Do hav alot of people that say some off the wall things on here But its also others tht speak the truth. All it takes is a lil common sense to tell the BS Frm real then u can go look up things 4 ur self
@Sapphonouveau Instead of hating on other blcks tht are at least trying find out thy history and spread the word U should try to figure out y other races try so hard to say that we have not created anything obviously we had to have been doing something great
Also yes u Do hav alot of people that say some off the wall things on here But its also others tht speak the truth. All it takes is a lil common sense to tell the BS Frm real then u can go look up things 4 ur self
@eazydee415 Well firstly, they do say bad things about Ancient Rome (what with the whole political corruption, gladiatorial combats and exposure of infants thing). But that's a value judgement that has no place in historical analysis. Secondly, I am not hating on anyone - I am stating that I disagree with *certain* narratives and the reasons why. I am a sceptic and a (hopefully!) scientist. If I think someone is spreading misinformation with a lack of appropriate evidence, I get concerned.
@Sapphonouveau Thirdly I doubt other races say we haven't created anything. Racists do, but they're bigots and are hardly indicative of their respective races. Most of the African history I've learned has been thanks to white english people (historians and laypeople) who also hated how African history has been pretty much ignored.
@Sapphonouveau well i do disagree with you there. i do feel the Eurocentric education&media that we are taught(regardless of race) tells us that Africans didn't contribute much when it comes to civilizations. it also tell us that things like slavery and colonialism in the long run gave Africans progress.its more than African history being ignored. its Eurocentrism has skewed the facts. Afrocentrism(whether it factually right or wrong)is something you find in the internet or a book you buy(con)
@Sapphonouveau (con)or you watch on youtube. eurocentrism is basically in everything you see. whether its the evening news or the movie you pay to see, the text book you read as a kid, the documentary you watch(even if its about africa) ingrains in us all(regardless of race) that Africans or inferior. its something that has been taking for granted.if there is some wild claims Afrocentrists make(there are some) there are also wild claims by Eurocentrics that have been assumed to be true.
@Sapphonouveau Instead of hating on other blcks tht are at least trying find out thy history and spread the word U should try to figure out y other races try so hard to say that we have not created anything obviously we had to have been doing something great
Also yes u Do hav alot of people that say some off the wall things on here But its also others tht speak the truth. All it takes is a lil common sense to tell the BS Frm real then u can go look up things 4 ur self
@Sapphonouveau U should Listen to Dr John Henrik Clacke he's A great historian he's Been doing it forever I dnt kno if he has a degree in it but he speks the truth
But The African American(Vivien Thomas) that did the 1st open heart surgery And he Didnt have a Doctorate Degree So u Can Have sense without a degree
@eazydee415 That may be so but Dr Thomas had done years of research and worked as a surgeon before performing the first open heart surgery. It's not about degrees, no, but it is about research and adequate evidence to back up your claims.
And it's nice to see you've decided to drop the profanity and rather bizarre accusations. Perhaps I will read some of his papers after all and see whether what he says really does have any truth or not.
Nazi's tried to instill fake pride just to ramp up hatred and a one sided view to the world, anyone with extreme pride or patriotic views with out hard lined scientific fact are not only dumb but below that..
Ancient Egyptians have contributed a lot to society, anyone writing or claiming lies etc, are fabricating crap and has not done dna tests, no background in genetic engineering, nano technology, archaeological experience or skull analysis from their claims etc, people who make fabrication is also silly.
We all need to seek scientific fact, from a variety of sources, nothing about race or colors etc, just knowledge proven knowledge not over exaggeration or boasting to condescend others.
@neotokyomedia now i'm not sure were your heading. but there is enough genetic, archaeological, and skull analysis to suggest African input into the Egyptian civilization. as there is other contributions. i dont know anything i said that relates to Nazism. but you might have said a thing or two
@neotokyomedia no you are using the term Afrocentric to hide the facts. their is a lot of distortions coming from many people. once again the fact is there is both genetic and archaeological evidence that suggest African input from the very beginning of Egyptian civilization,as there was also contributions from others. that is the facts. its not Afrocentric wishful thinking. you say your not a eurocentric but you certainly sound like one
I am no eurocentric or afrocentric, I am saying to you and others Egyptians are their own native people, African Ethiopians and Sudanese. entered during Ramses II I said this already and it is proven by science. it is also on Hieroglyphics and Egyptians documents black people in Egypt. Stating that they are their own native nationality, is nothing against what you, myself or scientists are saying, blacks did come yes, no doubt about it. Go look at Ramses Statue even..
I am no eurocentric or afrocentric, I am saying to you and others Egyptians are their own native people, African Ethiopians and Sudanese. entered during Ramses II I said this already and it is proven by science. it is also on Hieroglyphics and Egyptians documents black people in Egypt. Stating that they are their own native nationality, is nothing against what you, myself or scientists are saying, blacks did come yes, no doubt about it.
@neotokyomedia there is no such thing as an Egyptian race. thats actually Nazism. the Nazis claim to be a different race and they were not. your refusal to acknowledged African input into Egyptian civilization just makes you like the radical "Afrocentric". your not stating facts you are also stating wishful thinking. Egypt has become a black-white tug of war and true facts have become a victim of this game. its funny this topic would have probably been a silly conversation to the egyptians
@kingzula Perhaps the problem is that we're using labels that just wouldn't make any sense to anyone then or now. For example, technically the Egyptians were African because Egypt is a country in the continent of Africa so of course there was African input - they were African! However, we have an idea of 'African' meaning very dark skinned with sub-saharan features, which is also silly because there is a huge amount of variation amongst sub-saharan Africans.
@Sapphonouveau Hell, I don't look like a certain idea of sub-sarahan african and I've even been mistaken for being mixed race by people who don't know that actually, not every sub-saharan african is very dark skinned (e.g. some Igbos are called 'red people' as they are very light skinned with auburn hair and the Fulani and Hausas are very dark skinned with straight noses whereas some Igbo-Yoruba people have green eyes).
@Sapphonouveau What's even more difficult is that the boundaries have changed. Ancient Kemet was at some stages in history much smaller than modern day Egypt and other times went deeper south so there again is another source of variation amongst the people - geographic boundaries have little impact on physiology. Egypt might have included bits of modern Sudan at some periods and bits of Jordan at others.
@Sapphonouveau It might be best if we avoid this type of discussion altogether because it's fairly meaningless yet arouses undue levels of animosity. Saying that the ancient Egyptians were either all or mostly light skinned/dark skinned is neither necessarily eurocentric nor afrocentric and even if it was, it doesn't mean anything. Their colour of skin doesn't tell me anything beyond... their colour of skin.
@Sapphonouveau Speaking of, I think that unless someone specifically calls themselves Afrocentric or Eurocentric first, we should avoid using it to insult someone who says something we disagree with. I was called a white supremacist because I happen to say things that some white racists have apparently(?) also said in spite of the fact that the comments are in themselves utterly neutral and the t
just cus u have not went threw what afro americans have and u dnt c because maybe u go to school and have a few white friends
And i c u like White music LOL on ur page (blink 182) that u think people like Tupac,Idi amin,Kume Nkruma are crazy but i say u should listen because thy are speaking frm expreience even tho u might not agree with everything but still listen(I dont) u might learn something. outside of the box that u r in Because thes people were not Great 4 Nothing
eazydee415 4 days ago
@eazydee415 What is your point exactly? Idi Amin was definitely insane but as much a western puppet who turned on the hand that fed him like so many other African and Middle Eastern dictators. I love Tupac. I don't think he's crazy. What box is it that I am in, exactly? The box that says Africa had a wonderful and complex history that needs to be equally valued and investigated? Seeing as you define music by skin colour, I'm not sure I'm the only one who needs to go outside the box.
Sapphonouveau 4 days ago
@Sapphonouveau CHECK THIS OUT 2 MORE SPAM 4 U FRM USA CALIFORNIA HA
Mystery of the Black Mummy - Ancient Civilizations
eazydee415 2 days ago
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Revelation 1:13-15
eazydee415 5 days ago
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And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and his hairs were like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
What color is brass when it's burned in a furnace?
eazydee415 5 days ago
There are two variants of the black race: (a) straight-haired, represented in Asia by the Dravidians and in Africa by the Nubians and the Tubbou or Tedda, all three with jet-black skins; (b) the kinky-haired blacks of the Equatorial regions. Both types entered into the composition of the Egyptian population
Research: Badarian and Naqada Cultures
eazydee415 5 days ago
@Sapphonouveau And why you're referring to a Hebraic version of a Sumerian myth for historical evidence for anything more material than contemporary impressions and opinions, I honestly have no idea. The myth implies that all peoples are descended from Noah which is clearly wrong going by the geological and genetic record. Like I said, try not to use the Bible like that.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
all egyptians(kemetians) were black...GENESIS chapter 10-16(table of nations) "ans these are the sons of noah" NOAH begat HAM(ham being the progenitor of all black nations)HAM begat CAANAN,CUSH(ethiopia),PHUT(somolia),LIBIDIUM(libya),and MIZRAIM(egypt-kemet). this passage alone proves the origins and race of the egyptians...take a look at all their art work..read their books about where their from..up the nile..the nile flows from south to north.up river your going south
eazydee415 6 days ago
@eazydee415 Firstly, all that tells you is that the ancient Hebrews considered the Egyptians black, but as we've been saying, which you clearly haven't noticed, this doesn't mean anything. The Egyptians, whom the Hebrews and Greeks considered black, didn't consider themselves to be black, rather, they called the Nubians black (who again, would probably do the same to sub-saharan west africans, who again would do the same to central africans, ad infinitum). What makes this passage right anyway?
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau Secondly, I just said that the origins of the kemetic people was from the south. Humans started migrating from the horn of africa, going north (a region that includes egypt, nubia and the north regions of the sahara which is south of egypt), south, west and further east. The last surge from the south (northern-central sahara) came around the time of the desertification of the Sahara.
Sapphonouveau 5 days ago
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@Sapphonouveau Thts ur opinion but any way it goes the bible is still describing the people that inhabited those lands as what thy were Black!
eazydee415 5 days ago
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@Sapphonouveau Also Check this out on youtube or whtevr Nabta Playa
And Check this guy out
Robert Bauval: Egypt, Napta Playa & Black Genesis Part 1/2
Also wht do u think about the Dogon?
eazydee415 5 days ago
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@Sapphonouveau What do u say abot theses scripts Frm west africa that are similar to the Egyptian 1s
Where did this come from
VAI SCRIPT=LIBERIA
N'SIBIDI SCRIPT=NIGERIA
TOMA SIGNS=LIBERIA
MENDE SIGNS=SIERRA LEONE
AND dOGON SCRIPT
ALL IN WEST aFRICA
eazydee415 5 days ago
There are two variants of the black race: (a) straight-haired, represented in Asia by the Dravidians and in Africa by the Nubians and the Tubbou or Tedda, all three with jet-black skins; (b) the kinky-haired blacks of the Equatorial regions. Both types entered into the composition of the Egyptian population
Research: Badarian and Naqada Cultures
eazydee415 6 days ago
@eazydee415 So what? You've determined race by skin colour (which is fine), whereas others are determining it using definitions based on skull shape (which is also fine). You're all using different units of measurement, no wonder you keep arguing. It's like one person is using metric and the other imperial. Seriously, I am not interested and I find all this irrelevant. How hard is it for you to understand this?
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
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@Sapphonouveau checkout Robert Bauval's work
eazydee415 5 days ago
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@Sapphonouveau Also u should Checkout This Channel Afrosynergy He has alot of good info on there jus listen
Also check this vid out
Strategy of Poisoning Young Black Minds, 1 of 2
eazydee415 5 days ago
@Sapphonouveau Man listen and stop talkn u want to argue im not a debater check out some of the stuff that i said to look at and figure out what u believe
But anyway it goes its more things pointing To what u call afrocentrist r saying to being right than wrong and Blacks in America have dealt with whites and kno that for the most part thy are against us So whn sum1 Like Dr Clarke or Farakhan Or Malcom X speaks its not paranoia its real
eazydee415 4 days ago
@eazydee415 So your point is white people can be racist. Thank you for telling me what my parents have told me from my birth.
So what has this to do with the shift in Yoruban art traditions from realistic to abstracted? What can this tell me about the rise of the Aro Confederacy and it's impact on neighbouring Igbo city-states? Can this tell me who the first ruler of Zimbabwe was and what led to the fall of the kingdom?
Sapphonouveau 4 days ago
@eazydee415 So your point is white people can be racist. Thank you for telling me what my parents have told me from my birth and informing me of what I have experienced first hand.
So what has this to do with the shift in Yoruban art traditions from realistic to abstracted? What can this tell me about the rise of the Aro Confederacy and it's impact on neighbouring Igbo city-states? Can this tell me who the first ruler of Zimbabwe was and what led to the fall of the kingdom?
Sapphonouveau 4 days ago
@eazydee415 So your point is white people can be racist. Thank you for telling me what my parents have told me from my birth and informing me of what I have experienced first hand.
So what has this to do with the shift in Yoruban art traditions from realistic to abstracted? What can this tell me about the rise of the Aro Confederacy and it's impact on neighbouring Igbo city-states? Can this tell me who the first ruler of Zimbabwe was and what led to the fall of the kingdom?
Sapphonouveau 4 days ago
@eazydee415 And I have to say, what is with people like you and giving advice that you don't care to follow yourselves? I'm told not to label, whilst being called a white supremacist. I'm told not to make judgements based on knee jerk reactions, whilst being condemned because I said something in a way they didn't like. You tell me to stop talking and listen, when you haven't listened to a thing I've said. I have listened to you, I have read your spam. What do you want me to say?
Sapphonouveau 4 days ago
@Sapphonouveau Hey checkout this vid
Phoenician7 TKO North Africans II
eazydee415 2 days ago
@Sapphonouveau More Spam lol
The Origin of AIDS,Polio Vaccine - The Smoking Gun pt 1
eazydee415 6 hours ago
@Sapphonouveau (4) As for southern influences, it depends what you mean. Ancient Egypt didn't have the same borders as modern Egypt and we know ancient Nubia was south of Kemet. That combined with archeological and architectural artefacts (+similarity in scripts etc) shows there were shared origins and thus probably some later influences, but how southern is southern?
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau (5) I will also add that due to the insularity and conservativism of the ancient Kemetic people, it seems to me that any influence would probably have been resisted and if acquired, only by small degrees over a comparatively long period of time. It's interesting how non-Kemetic invaders/settlers/interlopers were often the ones to adopt Kemetic culture (briefly thinking about the Hyskos, Nubian and Ptolomeic occupations/eras) rather than the Kemetic people adopt theirs.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
Do forget that the Afrocentric also claim to be the Celts, as an Irishman, you can just imagine how ridiculous I find this.
This is a good Honest, balanced, unbiased video, thanks for the upload.
Scythian222 1 week ago
@Scythian222 It's definitely not unbiased or balanced, (probably because it's a little too honest), but thanks for commenting!
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
1This is the danger of knee jerk responses to so called "triggers" in lieu of sober and correct reasoning.
That quote from the Protocols of the Learned elders of Zion examples perfectly the conduct by those who have an aversion to the common long known fact of "Black Egypt". Many times thier objections are only valid bc they exist not bc they ex. any truth...more
Sunstance6 1 week ago
@Sunstance6 2They serve to simply cast doubt. Goto whiteweasle420's page & observe his interests "Sabotage Expert, Subversion & demoralization. Then view his activities. Here is someone who knows the truth but objects to cast doubt. There are plenty of weasles on this tool. Most are less imprudent as to tell the truth of thier adgenda. I kno he's here so I'm curious to see how long it takes him to change that after this.lol
Sunstance6 1 week ago
@Sunstance6 My issue wasn't about the quote. My issue was you implying a zionist conspiracy against African history or some such thing (and the fact you sourced a paper written by a historian who has been criticised by Nigerian academics didn't exactly warm me to you). As for knee jerk responses, we're all guilty of those. I hope you're as careful to take your own advice!
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapp 1U've shown u can go tit for tat. But so what? If truth is not the end then what is the use of intellectual back n forth. Arguing for the sake of argument does damage to the people who r not studious to follow up. Defense lawyers R great at spinning arguments against truth to spring guilty defendants (prosecuters too). Saying this cus the protocols are evidenced. Did u read the book? I use my own sight before anybody's critique of anything. I dont jump on bandwagons.
Sunstance6 1 week ago
@Sunstance6 2N you speaking Afrocentricity as tho its a bad word like the racists do (zionists and more) set up an icy intro to me as well. Im an African living in ameriKKKa. If I'm not african centered, IDing with with my ancestors, uncovering my history n heritage (read-shit has been hidden) then I am brainwashed. Theres 2 much dignity in me to settle for brainwash. And the brainwashed R easily discernable by ALL others and are tolerated but not respected in the least.
Sunstance6 1 week ago
@Sunstance6 I'm with you on the first point. Argument for arguments sake is just vanity fun though it may be.
It's good to know you're not one for bandwagons either but as ever. I'm not against afrocentrism per se - it's a narrative, a metaphysical entity no better or worse than Eurocentrism or Asiocentrism etc etc - but I am (for the however many-th time) sceptical of some of the claims made by Afrocentrists.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau yes i know race is more of a social term than genetic reality(tell rahotep and his friends that) but that social term has become real. yes Egyptians dont call themselves "black" , neither does Sudanese or people who are Swahili. both are darker than me or you. in fact many "west Africans" wont call themselves "black" either. its become sought of a boogie word. Eurocentrism has a lot to do with that also.
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula remember you said you wanted real facts.like you said. you got to look at the real story. you got go with an open mind, if not all you do is validate the falsities on both sides of the issue
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula I have to be honest, I'm getting a bit annoyed, so forgive me if I get too rude.
(1) I was not originally interested in debunking anyone. My idea was to investigate the history of Africa, people by people, taking it back as far as the records go. I started with the (Abagana) Igbo people as it would be easiest seeing as I'm Igbo and my clan are from Abagana, but then I'd do the same for the other Igbo groups then the rest of the Nigerian ethnicities and then Ghanaian, Cameroonian...
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau (2)...and so on. I started my investigations with recording what my parents had been taught (and the next trip to Nigeria I'll be able to do a wider investigation with the help of family elders) and then looking online to see what other people might have found and what areas needed a closer look. What I found was a lot of conjecture that people kept passing as absolute fact that didn't have adequate evidence and if it did, hadn't been adequately analysed to back their claims...
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau (3)...Being a pedant who likes history and studies a subject where what can be used as proof is carefully considered before you even begin looking for evidence, at first this was just weird but not atypical. But then the more I saw it and the more I realised it was often driven by an unquestioned ideology and the more I saw how little online academic work one could refer to, the more irritating it became until I exploded and posted a rant on the subject.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau (4) I am not against the idea that all africans were ancient Egyptians. I disagree with it, not because it's stupid but because there isn't enough evidence and it goes against what evidence we already have. I am not against the idea that all ancient egyptians were originally Igbo or caucasian or even martians from outer space. I disagree with it, not because it's stupid but because there isn't enough evidence and it goes against what evidence we already have. This is my mantra...
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau (5)... and whilst I know I am not the best communicator in the world, I really don't get why this is so hard for people to understand (apart from by the only other two black sceptics on youtube!). I have been insulted, threatened, given patronising advice for something I haven't even said, care about or - as it happens - believe in. I don't see how much more of an open mind one can have unless you define that as having an infinite number of contradictory ideas...
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau (6)...as demonstrated by the exchanges in the comments for this video. What exactly is this 'real' story I have to look at beyond that which I am currently investigating? This is probably just me projecting but at the moment all I'm getting is this weird concern that oh no this one actual African is trying her damndest to do objective research and her conclusions might not agree with what a bunch of outdated idealogues thought. It was patronising before but now it's infuriating.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@kingzula It's funny you mentioned how many west africans don't call themselves black as I was going to mention an anecdote from my parents when they first arrived in the UK but yes, it's a social term which is important just not for the reasons some Afrocentrists think. I focus on Afrocentrists because they are the ones I've happened to come across and they also seem to assume by dint of skin colour that our issues/perspectives are the same, not because I think they're the worst of all time.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau
i know your not interested in the "ancient Egyptian race controversy" so i dont plan to go on and on about it with you, but you know because of the subject you choose to discuss this subject will probably come up over and over again.
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula also if you notice in my comments i actually try and avoid the word "black" when talking about Africa because it tends to isolate. thats why i hate the term sub-Saharan Africa to because its become a code word for "black" and it makes a false assumptions about the people who live their and live in north Africa. in other words according to these so called Afrocentric debunkers north africa is theirs and "sub Saharan Africa is ours. which is bull.
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula you know i google "Igbo people" and a lot of interesting things come up that tell the history(what is known) of them. its not mostly from a Afrocentric point of view. i would say its more Eurocentric. that doesnt mean it wrong or right just saying what i'm seeing.
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula Yes, I know and you might remember I said that the Afrocentric influence tended to creep in on sites about igbo history/culture/etc made by igbo bloggers (specifically those who are neo-traditional religionists). A lot of what is out there online is not, weirdly enough, up to date research which is why I ended the rant by saying I'll just stick to the University library.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@kingzula Well it depends on the debunker. The ones of Egyptian descent are probably tired of yet another group of people interpreting their history as though they don't exist (first the colonial Europeans, now the post-colonial Afrocentrists...) and there's also the issue of a slight mistranslation as to what 'black' means in various contexts. Those of European descent have no more right to call it theirs than any other non-Egyptian.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@kingzula Well yes, because it seems the Afrocentrists on youtube have terrible comprehension skills. It's weird how after I specifically state that I don't really care about Ancient Egypt as such (as any connections there are will come up regardless of how explicitly you look for them) most people have focused on informing me about stuff I either already know and may well agree with but don't consider to be particularly relevant to what I am interested in. Ah well - c'est l'Internet!
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
book review editor of the Negro History Bulletin (1948–52), associate editor of the magazine Freedomways, and a feature writer for the Pittsburgh Courier and the Ghana Evening News
Well if she want listen to Him who knos who she'll listen 2
Also she says its Paranoia And I say its Experience
eazydee415 1 week ago
@eazydee415 Ah, so you've been observing human history since the first hominid took it's faltering steps, have you? Who would have thought - eazydee415, the uber-antedeluvian!
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
Comment removed
eazydee415 1 week ago
Comment removed
eazydee415 1 week ago
upported scholars in areas of history, culture, literature and the arts. He was a founding member of other organizations to recognize and support work in black culture: the Black Academy of Arts and Letters and the African-American Scholars' Council His writing included six scholarly books and many scholarly articles. He edited anthologies of black writing, as well as his own short stories, and more general interest articles.[3] He was co-founder of the Harlem Quarterly 1949–51), book review
eazydee415 1 week ago
but it is a starting point. History is a clock that people use to tell their political and cultural time of day. It is a compass they use to find themselves on the map of human geography. It tells them where they are, but more importantly, what they must be."[5]
Besides teaching at Hunter College and Cornell University, Clarke was active in creating professional associations to support the study of black culture He was a founder and first president of the African Heritage StudiesAssociationWhich
eazydee415 1 week ago
@eazydee415 Stop copying and pasting. I've read all this on an Afrocentric board before.
Why do you all seem to think that just repeating stuff will somehow make anyone agree with you? "Oh gracious, eazydee415, on the basis of your exceptional ability to copy and paste, I have truly seen the error of my ways!"
What the hell.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau LOL whatever U say Well I guess u can Go ask Phony7 and the crew for advise about African history
Maybe thy will tell how non african people bought civilization into Africa and that Blacks never crossed the Sahara or east Africans Are white and my favorite the 1st people in Africa werent Black
eazydee415 1 week ago
@eazydee415 Yes, it's my special mutant power.
Who exactly is this Phony7 you keep referring to because I've never been in contact with them, nor have they commented on this video. Whoever they are, they could keep on telling me that but as it isn't true, I'd probably tell them to get lost, quite frankly. Why the hell I'd ask someone on youtube for advice when I have a perfectly good (world class+25 Nobel laureates!) University library 10 minutes down the road is anyone's guess.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau lol
eazydee415 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau I seen u on 1 phony7 Buddies page talkn about ur opinion on Afrocentrism thats y i mentioned her
but anyway check out tht whole documentary this is just 1 reson to watch ur white friends
watch?v=v6Eist3wn0s
eazydee415 1 week ago
@eazydee415 Really? I think you might mean rahotep101. Either way, this is getting silly and you are being too ridiculous. Are you suggesting that because white people have been racist against black people in the past, every white person is genetically predispositioned to be secretly working for the extermination of black people? That would be like me saying all Hausa people are still secretly working to exterminate the Igbo people based on the Biafran war.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau Actually, don't answer that. It was rhetorical and this is a silly conversation. My apologies for being foolish enough to maintain it.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau I must say i'm a little confused.i did just read your comments on rahotep101. are you saying that if someone says the Egyptians are were black there only stating Afrocentric wishful thinking? if i say they were black does that mean i'm claiming to be Egyptian myself or i'm trying to steal someones else history? if there is an obsession with Egypt by some Afro centrist there is also an obsession by some to say they where not black and to remove them from Africa. rahotep being one
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula In some cases, yes (so not for you personally)- and I say that as someone who doesn't think that the ancient Egyptians looked like northern europeans (lol). Claiming the history of a people solely on the basis of a similar skin colour (or range thereof) is misguided at best, given what we know about genetics and human migration.
And yes, I agree that it cuts both ways. Moderation in all things is always best.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau An example might clarify things. Consider the commenter Sunstance6. Now, unless they are Egyptian, or of Egyptian heritage, I find their claim to be fighting the displacement of their ancestors from history a bit strange. If they are Egyptian, it's still strange, because ancient Egyptian history is in no way displaced or ignored (if not for egyptology, the History channel would lose whatever loose claim it had to being about History!).
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau If they are referring to the history of people from Africa, again they are still wrong - but not as wrong - considering that yes there is a lack of focus on African history but that's understandable because most European and African historical narratives run in parallel and don't seriously intersect until comparatively recently.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau If they mean that no one explicitly tells you what colour of skin the ancient Egyptians had then that's not the same as being displaced. It's obvious they didn't look like northern europeans and the only people to whom that wouldn't be obvious are people from the metaphorical Dark Ages and children who, without any other reference, naturally think everyone looks like the dominant 'ideal' in their society.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau But any child who grows to think about it, will quickly realise that of course the ancient Egyptians weren't 'white'. Any child who seriously thinks about it will realise they might have thought so due to their own cultural bias and not because of some vast conspiracy to pretend black people didn't exist until the slave trade.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau Furthermore, as I keep reiterating, judging from what we know about 'race' (superficial; arbitrary; little basis on genetics or culture; basis in outdated scientific definitions) the argument is bogus. As a mere observation, calling the ancient Egyptians 'black' is nothing, albeit perhaps a little weird to Egyptians (who don't consider themselves black but would nonetheless be considered black in another context eg by the one drop rule. But then, so were Italians).
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau Furthermore, as I keep reiterating, judging from what we know about 'race' (superficial; arbitrary; little basis on genetics or culture; basis in outdated scientific definitions) the argument is bogus. As a mere observation, calling the ancient Egyptians 'black' is nothing, albeit perhaps a little weird to Egyptians (who don't consider themselves black but would nonetheless be considered black in another context eg by the one drop rule. But then, so were Italians).
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau It's neither good nor bad - it all depends on how you define things. To make a point of them being dark skinned as though that necessarily means you are related or their history is 'yours' in any meaningful sense besides in the general spirit of humanism, is, in my opinion, wishful thinking.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau Might I also add that the lack of focus on African history only really applies for popular history. In academic History, it is as vibrant as any other historical department. I have noticed that many Afrocentrists seem to think academic History is where it was 300 years ago (even Victorian academic historians knew Africa had a great history, documented the evidence and were safely ignored by the general public due to popular prejudice and distorted social Darwinism).
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau (con) from legitimate scholars or archaeologists that present there evidence. just the Afro-centrist that make unrealistic claims. this argument that there was some sort of barrier that prevented more southern Africans from migrating to Egypt is just as much a fantasy as extreme Afrocentrism. this is all about not giving Africans no influence because Egypt is connected to the overall development of the western civilization
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula But is it really? I mean, we got taught about Ancient Egypt at school but they were actually never portrayed as particularly closely connected to western civilisation, even once they get absorbed into the Roman Empire. Rather they were portrayed as incredibly exotic and mysterious - the quintessential orientalist 'other' - but definitely not European.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau Even on popular history channels, that's how they're portrayed (and no wonder because we didn't even know how to read their script until quite recently so all we had to go on was Ancient greek and Roman accounts, the former who again portrayed them as this ancient exotic race of magicians and the latter who thought they were decadent barbarians with weird gods albeit barbarians who produced lots of food).
Again, this is all about impressions, not anything concrete.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kingzula hey check this vid out
Phoenician7 TKO North Africans II
eazydee415 2 days ago
@Sapphonouveau so your saying that there no genetic, archaeological, linguistic or historical accounts that suggest a more southern influence to the prehistory or the early formation of the Egyptian civilization? what does your information suggest? how does that mean that someone is stealing or claiming their history? i notice all rahotep and his gang do is say that Egyptians were Caucasian. were is his facts and sources for the claims he makes. i notice he never comments on the videos(con)
kingzula 1 week ago
@kingzula The funny thing about caucasians is that there are 'black' caucasians too. I believe they occupy a little known area called the sub continent of India.
(1) Genetic/archeological studies suggest migration from the time homo sapiens evolved into Nubia+Egypt etc from East Africa that had a final surge due to the desertification of the Sahara desert. This phenomenon also pushed peoples from to West+Central Africa...
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau (2)...(who would mingle with those settled there to become the nations we know today) who would eventually migrate further south to join with those humans who had settled there previously. Thus the newly expanded Sahara desert did effectively create a natural barrier to (please note) mass migration and thus cultural influences for which there is archeological evidence...
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau ...(3) such as pottery artefacts dated to 4000 BC which show continuity with what is considered Igbo (in Nsukka) and Kemetic (in Egypt). My point is, by circa 4000 BC, most of the peoples we know today were identifiable, settled and established within their own communities - any shared origins go much farther back in time and if it occurred, any further migration from north africa to sub saharan africa (and vice versa) did not lead to massive shifts in genetic profiles/culture.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau And technically, East Africans are caucasians too. Although laypeople use the term to mean 'white', the original term refers to groupings based on skull shapes, not necessarily skin tone and is regardless of continent of origin.
So rahotep, yourself and others can argue what they like but these are such slippery terms, I personally think getting het up over them to be nothing but stupidity and irrelevance unless one is clear from the outset what one means by them.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau Did U checkout SOY Keita?
eazydee415 6 days ago
@eazydee415 Yes.
Sapphonouveau 6 days ago
@Sapphonouveau U say Paranoid Check this out
watch?v=v6Eist3wn0s
eazydee415 1 week ago
@eazydee415 So what exactly is your point?
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
@Sapphonouveau Checkout SOY Keita
eazydee415 1 week ago
helped shift the way African history was studied and taught. Clarke was "a scholar devoted to redressing what he saw as a systematic and racist suppression and distortion of African history by traditional scholars." When some of the scholarship he championed was dismissed by many historians, Clarke imparted to them the biases of Eurocentric views.
He was memorialized for devoting "himself to placing people of African ancestry 'on the map of human geography'Clarke said "History is not everything,
eazydee415 1 week ago
noted that Clarke's ascension to professor emeritus at Hunters College was "unusual...without benefit of a high school diploma." The Times also acknowledged that "nobody said Professor Clarke wasn't an academic original", but nonetheless referred to him using the honorific prefix "Mr." rather than "Dr.".[3] Prominent during the Black Power movement, Clarke advocated for studies on the African-American experience and the place of Africans in world history. He challenged academic historians and
eazydee415 1 week ago
@eazydee415 Oh cut the propaganda. I didn't say anything about his academic credentials - one can be perfectly well credited and still be at best wrong and at worst an absolute loony (two to a penny in academia - happens in Physics all the time). You don't merit someone's work by how much they suffered otherwise we'd all be saying planetary orbits are circular. I personally think Dr James may have started with good intentions but went AWOL. It happens.
Sapphonouveau 1 week ago
at Cornell University’s Africana Studies and Research Center. In 1968 along with the Black Caucus of the African Studies Association, Clarke founded the African Heritage Studies Association.
An autodidact, Clarke documented the histories and contributions of African peoples in Africa and the diaspora using an Afrocentric perspective He studied history and world literature at New York University, at Columbia University and at the League for Professional Writers
eazydee415 1 week ago
John Henrik Clarke (January 1, 1915 — July 16, 1998), born John Henry Clark, was a Pan-Africanist American writer, historian, professor, and a pioneer in the creation of Africana studies and professional institutions in academia starting in the late 1960s.
He was Professor of African World History and in 1969 founding chairman of the Department of Black and Puerto Rican Studies at Hunter College of the City University of New York.He also was the Carter G. Woodson Distinguished Visiting Professor
eazydee415 1 week ago
@GodGrandmaster Here I have to point out that certain terms used have different implications. Eurocentrism is basically the historical narrative told via the European lens and is for obvious reasons the dominant narrative. That doesn't make it inherently bad, but it means there are unconscious biases that Afrocentrism seeks to address.
It's like how amongst social justice activists, racism=prejudice+power, not just bigotry against people of different races.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau In fact, it occurs to me that in many ways, Afrocentrism (and other post-colonial historical theories) has already had some success as can be seen by the fact that historically literate people of my generation would find it weird that anyone could claim Europeans are inherently (intellectually, morally etc) better than, say, native Americans or Aborigines yet this is what was taught in schools only a few decades ago (as my father has mentioned to me).
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@GodGrandmaster No profanity please. No insults. It's taken too long for this silly discussion to cool off and for people to start trusting their fellow anonymous commenters. I really don't want this wound up again. It's a waste of time and ruins a great opportunity for people with different opinions to exchange ideas.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Actually, I hate misogyny as much as I hate anti-semitism so, adieu a toi aussi.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@GodGrandmaster well you said that i was claiming a white conspiracy?were did i imply that.?once again what are you assuming about me that implies that?
kingzula 2 weeks ago
This chick talks to hear the sound of he words...she never says anything.
GamesInfobot 2 weeks ago 2
@GamesInfobot Thanks for commenting and pointing out what everyone else seems to be missing. This video was intended as a rant, a shout out to other black sceptics. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am grateful it's generated so much discussion though. Shame it's mostly people with previous beef/grudges insulting each other over stuff I don't even care about.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@GamesInfobot Although, to be fair, I did say I have an issue with the focus paid on ancient Kemet, the lack of adequate data and analysis. I thought that was pretty clear... :( Maybe not.
Still, you live and learn!
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau i think you missed the meaning i was trying to make. the text books doesnt say it was good. what it says is that it brought progress. it brought Africa out of a primitive state.it brought civility to Africa. in other words the good outweighs the bad. this is the attitude that has been ingrained into the psychology and its assumed correct.
kingzula 2 weeks ago
@kingzula Yes, you're right - even people who would disagree with that still tend to carry that implicit bias.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Of course, I do realise I take for granted the fact that I was brought up in an African culture so I never had to get over that sense of inferiority.
On a strictly historical note, as for African contributions to European history, isn't it more complicated? For eastern/Mediterranean Europe, it would be more of a factor than for Western/Northern europe til the last 3-500 years. And similarly for African history. Europe only becomes any sort of factor in the last 500 years or so.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau i do understand your annoyance with SOME Afrocentrism. this notion of a brotherhood of Africans before the white man came never existed. if it did there never would have been a slave trade or colonialism. we do need to get real facts like you said. but it has to be real facts. debunking Afrocentrism cant be the goal because that doesnt necessarily give you the facts.
kingzula 2 weeks ago
@kingzula Sure, but my 'goal', as I have to keep reiterating, was never to debunk Afrocentrism. Even in my rant I was careful to mention that I have no problem with the central tenet of Afrocentrism - in fact, I applaud and completely agree with it. I am, in that sense, also Afrocentric. To be honest, I had no goal other than to start a discussion with other sceptics. If anything, I am out to debunk ideas that are wrong but even then, I am more interested in sharing what I've learned.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
I am not fully ready to receive you, friend. But I am very curious of your progress. How has your self-appointed assignment advanced? It was fun talking with you. Especially the light-hearted insults. HAHAHA.
I hope that you understand me better. Please be polite when discussing "Stolen Legacy." To hear from you will show how ready you are.
Though, I did catch up with your comments, and I am ashamed of what you concede.
Your friend,
Onitaset Kumat
ABSiblings 2 weeks ago
@ABSiblings lol Very slowly. I was actually revising for exams at the time of our first conversation, and have currently started a new semester with a new research project. My reading is going very slowly but it means I take in more, I guess (I hope!).
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Well, I hope to hear from you. You should not have called Sunstance6 an anti-semite. He brought to your attention the Igbo pyramids. I am gathering more information for our mutual benefit. We can debate across the Atlantic. :-p
Keep improving,
Your friend,
Onitaset Kumat
ABSiblings 2 weeks ago
@ABSiblings Anyone who starts going on about zionism and quotes from protocols of the elders of Zion automatically gets the no-vote. The funny thing is, Afrocentrists like Sunstance6 - and yourself at times - assume that if you disagree with them on one thing, you disagree with them on everything. I've read about the pyramids too, and first heard of them several years ago whilst on holiday in Nigeria no less.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Why does everyone assume that me disagreeing with the wilder claims made by Afrocentists means I know nothing about African history, or that I don't believe we had a history etc etc especially when I've made it clear that my issues with some afrocentric narratives stem from what knowledge I have garnered of African history. It's actually getting really irritating. You don't have to be eurocentric to disagree with something some afrocentrists happen to think.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau My comments stem from your comments against putting attention to Egypt. I pointed out the pyramids to re-emphasize the relevance of praising Kemet. If you knew abut them--why question the relevance? Clearly it's relevant.
Anti-Zionism isn't Anti-Semitism. Further, quoting the protocols isn't anti-semitic. For instance Mein Kamf has great advice on Propaganda techniques; citing such isn't racist.
Finally, did you imply that I insulted? :p
Quit labeling :) :p
ABSiblings 2 weeks ago
@ABSiblings @ABSiblings Again, this is the problem with Afrocentrists like you. You seem to have no concept of critical evaluations. I question the importance placed on Kemet because I personally don't see it. I might be wrong, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about it which is what everyone seems to be thinking. I can disagree with a historical interpretation. It doesn't mean I am ignorant of or don't believe in the original data.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Speaking of, we can disagree about what constitutes anti-semitism. Suffice to say, I've been in these discussions before and let's just say I'm wary of anyone going on about a zionist conspiracy in a discussion that has nothing to do with Israel-Palestine.
And yes, I did imply that you insulted me. But again, that's fine because this is the internet after all and people aren't always nice. C'est la vie. I just take note of it and remember not to expect any better.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau The importance is simple. All over Africa we migrated to the most fertile land, the Nile. After racial attacks, we fled for centuries. The Nilotic experience is instrumental to understanding the African experience. We migrated to then from there. That's why it's important. We brought civilization there and brought it out. That's all.
You mistakenly think that the Igbo are universally contemporary with Kemet. That's your confusion. Igbo is after. HTP
ABSiblings 2 weeks ago
@ABSiblings Again, please stop making assumptions about what I think (*please* It's really irritating). I do appreciate that you've given me a nicely summed narrative for me to investigate more thoroughly but again, the issue is that it doesn't fit with what evidence I've come across in my studies so I disagree with it. That's all. Again, I could be wrong in which case, well, I'm wrong but that won't be due to you just repeating the same facts.
As ever, thanks for commenting.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Ok. Happy studies. Though another thing to consider is the Twa people. What racists call the "pygmies." They started Egyptian culture. The Pyramids of Egypt were grander pyramids, not the first. It's truly they who migrated to and from. But they are also who make up West Africans. That's our shared ancestry. The different 'tribes' reflect migrations from disaster. But the commonality is the Twa--that's central, IMO. But I still investigate that. :)
ABSiblings 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Come time we talk, tell me what you know of the Twa. I'd be happy to hear. :)
Looking forward to your dialogue,
Onitaset Kumat
ABSiblings 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau O and Check out Dr John Henrik Clarke And Do some research off His lectures
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau "I can disagree with a historical interpretation. It doesn't mean I am ignorant of or don't believe in the original data."
Very well said. I bet if you asked ABS for proof of what he states....he would just spam what he's already said before, and resort to calling you an ass-kisser, like other people I've encountered here that are like him.
GodGrandmaster 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau LOL @ eazy mentioning that people are trying to make friends with you because you disagree with other blacks. While that may be so, it's not because it's a "black against other blacks" thing... it's an observant against Afrocentric mythology thing. Just as there are whites against Eurocentric history...and see through the veil. He's such an idiot.
GodGrandmaster 2 weeks ago
@GodGrandmaster Eurocentric history is the history that is taught in the west.
kingzula 2 weeks ago
@kingzula Sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about. What is this Eurocentric history that is taught? That everyone comes from Europe? That the first civilizations arose in Europe? What? If so, then either you've had poor homeschooling or you don't live here. I've learned of European history, it's interactions with and exploitation of other countries, and world history. So wtf is this widespread Eurocentric history being taught?
GodGrandmaster 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GodGrandmaster hey check this out
watch?v=4Zu8C315iJk
eazydee415 1 week ago
@kingzula And I can guarantee you that in a majority white society where racism is an unacceptable attitude with most, that Eurocentric history, if really taught by some institution in the manners that I've exampled in my question to you, would be called out by another white person who sees that it is erroneous. If you deny that then the burden of proof that there is some institutional conspiracy against black people is on you.
GodGrandmaster 2 weeks ago
@GodGrandmaster well your another one who's jumping to conclusions.where did i imply there's a conspiracy against black people? are you suggesting there is? you seem to be assuming something about me? is that what you feel Eurocentrism is? you've just answered your own question
kingzula 2 weeks ago
@kingzula
kingzula 2 weeks ago
@kingzula If its not a conspircy its got to b something, Cus every where that blacks populate inthe world euros came and it bought problems for Blacks No matter if it was blacks in the Americas,Africa The Aborigines in Ausralia or Negritos in south east asia or the Blacks In India
They killed all black leaders in US. Brits almost Made the Aborigenes Extinct and took over thy land. took Black Indians As slaves to carribeans and south Africa,Made Apartied in africa,Made Crack n put it n black com
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
@eazydee415 Some of the more recent events have been due to the impact of ideas concerning eugenics which were borne of popular distortions of Darwin's theory of evolution. The interesting thing about the Spanish/Portuguese encroachments into the Americas is that they were often denounced by contemporary ethicists. All things considered, the explicit race angle seems to be a more recent 'innovation' (heck in the early days of the British Empire, intermarriage was encouraged).
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@eazydee415 the problem is Eurocentrism
kingzula 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kingzula hey check this out
watch?v=4Zu8C315iJk
eazydee415 1 week ago
@kingzula And much more u can go on and on
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
@GodGrandmaster Gtf outta here u the same person running around talking about blacks all over the internet
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
Oh my Gawd. Africans can be so stupid man. Listen, you went way off with this video. There is no obsession over Ancient Egypt. I think you're getting the word argument confused with the word obsession. And then for some reason your going off at black people who are Afrocentrics blah blah blah but you don't go off white people or Caucasian people. What is the issue with black people like you? Is it embarrassment or are you afraid or something?
silverstrider101 2 weeks ago
@silverstrider101 Thanks for commenting! As I keep on having to explain to people, this video was a rant (not reasoned argument) primarily me blowing off steam but you're right, I am getting a little obsessed with this topic which is a good sign if ever there was one for me to stop!
But don't worry, next time I'll have a go at eurocentrics to balance it out. Then I'll stop. And hey, African-Americans can be so stupid too, man. We all have our faults.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau You don't need to go off at Eurocentrics to prove anything to anyone. Just do you. Personally, i believe this back and forth argument over Khemet is silly. Although i do believe the Pharaohs and their ppl were a bunch of egomaniac voodoo practicing blk (African) men and blk (African) women. I think the whole issue behind the argument pertains to the racist idea of black Africans never creating a culture the Caucasian world regard as rich or prosperous in culture.
silverstrider101 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Sapphonouveau Instead of hating on other blcks tht are at least trying find out thy history and spread the word U should try to figure out y other races try so hard to say that we have not created anything obviously we had to have been doing something great
Also yes u Do hav alot of people that say some off the wall things on here But its also others tht speak the truth. All it takes is a lil common sense to tell the BS Frm real then u can go look up things 4 ur self
thy dnt say bad about Rome
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Instead of hating on other blcks tht are at least trying find out thy history and spread the word U should try to figure out y other races try so hard to say that we have not created anything obviously we had to have been doing something great
Also yes u Do hav alot of people that say some off the wall things on here But its also others tht speak the truth. All it takes is a lil common sense to tell the BS Frm real then u can go look up things 4 ur self
thy dnt say bad about Rome
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
@eazydee415 Well firstly, they do say bad things about Ancient Rome (what with the whole political corruption, gladiatorial combats and exposure of infants thing). But that's a value judgement that has no place in historical analysis. Secondly, I am not hating on anyone - I am stating that I disagree with *certain* narratives and the reasons why. I am a sceptic and a (hopefully!) scientist. If I think someone is spreading misinformation with a lack of appropriate evidence, I get concerned.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Thirdly I doubt other races say we haven't created anything. Racists do, but they're bigots and are hardly indicative of their respective races. Most of the African history I've learned has been thanks to white english people (historians and laypeople) who also hated how African history has been pretty much ignored.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau well i do disagree with you there. i do feel the Eurocentric education&media that we are taught(regardless of race) tells us that Africans didn't contribute much when it comes to civilizations. it also tell us that things like slavery and colonialism in the long run gave Africans progress.its more than African history being ignored. its Eurocentrism has skewed the facts. Afrocentrism(whether it factually right or wrong)is something you find in the internet or a book you buy(con)
kingzula 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau (con)or you watch on youtube. eurocentrism is basically in everything you see. whether its the evening news or the movie you pay to see, the text book you read as a kid, the documentary you watch(even if its about africa) ingrains in us all(regardless of race) that Africans or inferior. its something that has been taking for granted.if there is some wild claims Afrocentrists make(there are some) there are also wild claims by Eurocentrics that have been assumed to be true.
kingzula 2 weeks ago
@kingzula Sorry - I deleted the previous comment because it sounds like I disagree with you more than I actually do.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
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@Sapphonouveau Instead of hating on other blcks tht are at least trying find out thy history and spread the word U should try to figure out y other races try so hard to say that we have not created anything obviously we had to have been doing something great
Also yes u Do hav alot of people that say some off the wall things on here But its also others tht speak the truth. All it takes is a lil common sense to tell the BS Frm real then u can go look up things 4 ur self
thy dnt say bad about Rome
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau U should Listen to Dr John Henrik Clacke he's A great historian he's Been doing it forever I dnt kno if he has a degree in it but he speks the truth
But The African American(Vivien Thomas) that did the 1st open heart surgery And he Didnt have a Doctorate Degree So u Can Have sense without a degree
eazydee415 2 weeks ago
@eazydee415 That may be so but Dr Thomas had done years of research and worked as a surgeon before performing the first open heart surgery. It's not about degrees, no, but it is about research and adequate evidence to back up your claims.
And it's nice to see you've decided to drop the profanity and rather bizarre accusations. Perhaps I will read some of his papers after all and see whether what he says really does have any truth or not.
Sapphonouveau 2 weeks ago
Nazi's tried to instill fake pride just to ramp up hatred and a one sided view to the world, anyone with extreme pride or patriotic views with out hard lined scientific fact are not only dumb but below that..
neotokyomedia 3 weeks ago
Ancient Egyptians have contributed a lot to society, anyone writing or claiming lies etc, are fabricating crap and has not done dna tests, no background in genetic engineering, nano technology, archaeological experience or skull analysis from their claims etc, people who make fabrication is also silly.
We all need to seek scientific fact, from a variety of sources, nothing about race or colors etc, just knowledge proven knowledge not over exaggeration or boasting to condescend others.
neotokyomedia 3 weeks ago
@neotokyomedia now i'm not sure were your heading. but there is enough genetic, archaeological, and skull analysis to suggest African input into the Egyptian civilization. as there is other contributions. i dont know anything i said that relates to Nazism. but you might have said a thing or two
kingzula 3 weeks ago
@kingzula
There is a lot of distorted things coming from afrocentrics.. not based on scientific fact, which is similar to nazi's instill bias also..
I am stating from scientific knowledge not exaggeration.
I have also stated Africans have contributed a lot, also the nubian Ethiopian and Sudanese who identify as Egyptians since Ramses II past and present.
(do not worry I am not euroecentric or other crap out there) I am stating proven evidence.
neotokyomedia 3 weeks ago
@neotokyomedia no you are using the term Afrocentric to hide the facts. their is a lot of distortions coming from many people. once again the fact is there is both genetic and archaeological evidence that suggest African input from the very beginning of Egyptian civilization,as there was also contributions from others. that is the facts. its not Afrocentric wishful thinking. you say your not a eurocentric but you certainly sound like one
kingzula 3 weeks ago
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@kingzula
I am no eurocentric or afrocentric, I am saying to you and others Egyptians are their own native people, African Ethiopians and Sudanese. entered during Ramses II I said this already and it is proven by science. it is also on Hieroglyphics and Egyptians documents black people in Egypt. Stating that they are their own native nationality, is nothing against what you, myself or scientists are saying, blacks did come yes, no doubt about it. Go look at Ramses Statue even..
neotokyomedia 3 weeks ago
@kingzula
I am no eurocentric or afrocentric, I am saying to you and others Egyptians are their own native people, African Ethiopians and Sudanese. entered during Ramses II I said this already and it is proven by science. it is also on Hieroglyphics and Egyptians documents black people in Egypt. Stating that they are their own native nationality, is nothing against what you, myself or scientists are saying, blacks did come yes, no doubt about it.
neotokyomedia 3 weeks ago
@kingzula
The term afrocentric is being based on some statements from some people stating that Egyptians are not their own native race.. which is utter crap.
neotokyomedia 3 weeks ago
@neotokyomedia there is no such thing as an Egyptian race. thats actually Nazism. the Nazis claim to be a different race and they were not. your refusal to acknowledged African input into Egyptian civilization just makes you like the radical "Afrocentric". your not stating facts you are also stating wishful thinking. Egypt has become a black-white tug of war and true facts have become a victim of this game. its funny this topic would have probably been a silly conversation to the egyptians
kingzula 3 weeks ago
@kingzula Perhaps the problem is that we're using labels that just wouldn't make any sense to anyone then or now. For example, technically the Egyptians were African because Egypt is a country in the continent of Africa so of course there was African input - they were African! However, we have an idea of 'African' meaning very dark skinned with sub-saharan features, which is also silly because there is a huge amount of variation amongst sub-saharan Africans.
Sapphonouveau 3 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Hell, I don't look like a certain idea of sub-sarahan african and I've even been mistaken for being mixed race by people who don't know that actually, not every sub-saharan african is very dark skinned (e.g. some Igbos are called 'red people' as they are very light skinned with auburn hair and the Fulani and Hausas are very dark skinned with straight noses whereas some Igbo-Yoruba people have green eyes).
Sapphonouveau 3 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau What's even more difficult is that the boundaries have changed. Ancient Kemet was at some stages in history much smaller than modern day Egypt and other times went deeper south so there again is another source of variation amongst the people - geographic boundaries have little impact on physiology. Egypt might have included bits of modern Sudan at some periods and bits of Jordan at others.
Sapphonouveau 3 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau It might be best if we avoid this type of discussion altogether because it's fairly meaningless yet arouses undue levels of animosity. Saying that the ancient Egyptians were either all or mostly light skinned/dark skinned is neither necessarily eurocentric nor afrocentric and even if it was, it doesn't mean anything. Their colour of skin doesn't tell me anything beyond... their colour of skin.
Sapphonouveau 3 weeks ago
@Sapphonouveau Speaking of, I think that unless someone specifically calls themselves Afrocentric or Eurocentric first, we should avoid using it to insult someone who says something we disagree with. I was called a white supremacist because I happen to say things that some white racists have apparently(?) also said in spite of the fact that the comments are in themselves utterly neutral and the t