I respect all other relgious beliefs as long as they do no harm to others and do not enforce their religiou moral convictions on others (like the Christians).
The Human Rights Award given to the Dalai Lama should be revoked. Tibets lived under his rule suffer abject poverty and cruelty. When he was the leader of Tibet, what had he done to help the serfs and slaves?
The Dalai Lama never asked you to stop worshipping this shugden deity. He advised us the tibetans not to worship this diety giving reasons. So you westerners are free to worship this diety if you guys think he is the buddha
all the Dorje Shugden practitioners that I know of, myself included, are compassionate people who just want to help release others from suffering.
We are not against the Dalai Lama; we merely request that we are allowed to practise the teachings of our gurus, and that includes the practice of Dorje Shugden, as he is an aspect of the wisdom Buddha Manjushri.
Shugden is no longers a part of the Gelug tradition, that´s the big change. THE GELUG LAMAS, THE MONASTIC COMMUNITIES AND THE MAJORITY OF THE TIBETAN PEOPLE AGREE ON THIS.
Shugden monks are free to practice in their own monasteries, there is no religious persecution.
You´re right, there are refugees among older practitioners, but the young Shugden monks are sent to India. They are loyal to the CCP and they have Chinese passports, they are not refugees .
The Delhi High Court dismissed Dorje Shugden Devotees charges in april 2010!
Amnesty International came to the same conclusion 1998. (AI, Document - China: AI´s position on alleged abuses against worshippers of Tibetan deity Dorje Shugden.)
I call on everyone to please email the Dalai Lama to ask him to immediately stop this harmful ban. It's all on video to see, you've heard about the open public discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners... The Dalai Lama only needs to say the word and this could all stop tomorrow.
Amazing he doesn't do this. This winner of the Nobel Peace Prize does not seemed concerned at all about the intense suffering and persecution going on right under his nose.
What suffering? Shugden monks are free to practice. They have their own monasteries. Most of them are NOT refugees. They come from eastern Tibet. They have Chinese passports. They are loyal to the CCP.
Tibetan monks in China, on the other hand, are suffering in Chinese prisons.
According to the Chinese rulers, it´s Shugden or the Dalai Lama. Those who do not practice Shugden are seen as members of "the unpatriotic Dalai clique".
@Varavaken I wish what you said was true. I really do wish shugden monks were free to practice. They had to build their own monasteries after this ban because of the separation and severing of connections required by the oath taken by those who oppose the shugden practice. And yes, the monks are actually refugees, and suffer greatly in India, where tibetan communities are so close knit. The ironic thing is, the ones i know who have taken the oath against shugden practice have chinese passport
Yes you are rite, the monasteries support him coz there's no any other options and they all are very afraid of his cruel dictatorship, they know how much problems the Shugden Practitioners monasteries have faced which intentionally conspired by Tibetan Exile Gov...No one dare be a victim of DL and his Gov...thats why they all support him unwillingly....but we cant bear such torture...we will raise our voice like never before until he lift his and accept he was wrong
The monasteries support the Dalai Lama because they agree with his views. They are non-sectarians. The Shugdens purpose is clear and well known in both Gelug and non Gelug schools..
The Shugden group (the Gelug sectarians) is a small minority, they want Gelug supremecy. They grew strong after the death of the 13th Dalai Lama. The conflict in Gelug school (over Shugden) started in lhe late 70s resulted in the "split" 1996. DS groups around the worlds are now allies with China.
"Free Tibet" is a just one of the games that usa is currently engaging china in
there are also "Battle for Darfur's oil" named "Save Darfur" and "Falungong" with human rig hts activists straightly recruited out of CIA is not deceptively planned enough much to USA's shadow government's dismay.
these videos about protests are starting to all kinda look the same now.
I would recommend curious spiritual seekers to read up on the subject of Dorje Shugden instead of relying solely on videos like this. Check out the numerous resources online, websites, forums. dorjeshugden (dot ) com has a great deal of information and has a great forum which supports good debate, questions and learning
Except for the ban on Dorje Shugden, not a single Tibetan god or demon has been discriminated against or abolished, and no other practitioner of any other Tibetan god or demon has been persecuted. Dalai Lama doesn't even speak out against any other religion, cult, occult. Why Dorje Shugden?!
The UK had declared that Tibet is a part of China and its amongst the very first sign of all that the Dalai Lama had work for in his lifetime to bring independence to Tibet is not bearing fruit and will be forgotten in time. Hence, like that the ban of Dorje Shugden will be forgotten and he will rise and bring about tremendous growth for Buddhadharma.
That doesn't matter. It's about religious freedom. The Lama himself proclaimed over and over again that it doesn't matter which religion you choose. He also advised the Westerners to stick with their own traditional religion instead of choosing a replacement, e.g. buddhism. As far as I can see, the Lama is nothing else than a clever PR agent, who is in favor or against anything all at the same time. Just as he once endorsed India's nuclear weapon programme & later denied what he said.
all this time, i've not heard a shugden practitioner who i know praise China. Have you? don't get me wrong - i have nothing against China. i don't know the country well enough to comment basically. But from all the discussions on Shugden, it has been about the love of Dorje Shugden and the benefits of his practice. It has been about Guru Devotion to the masters who give us the practice. It has been about the sufferings of those who wish to continue the practice but suffer being ostracised.
Hhdl does give religious freedom if you think about it. If you practice like your supposed to then you will gain religious freedom. Regardless of what happens around you, you won't be swayed
@wangchub that's a good point which I hadn't thought of. Thank you for bringing that up. Actually, if we just do our practices well and follow the dharma, we will definitely get results and attainments.
@wangchub I guess we only have to look at all those beautiful DS lamas and practitioners around the world now. E.g. geshe kelsang gyatso, gangchen Rinpoche, gongsar rinpoche etc - their students and centres have tremendous freedom of practice and are gaining great results by their practice :) See all the incredible stories over at the dorjeshugden (dot ) come website
I came across this article of how HH Penor Rinpoche was unbiased and sympathetic towards Dorje Shugden monks due to the ban and he opened up Namdroling for these monks to get supplies.
It really is_ inspiring and uplifting to read this article... bit [.] ly [/] cbARTJ
I recommend checking out the many resources online about what's going on with regards to the DS issue. It's important to see the different sides of the story, find out what is happening and come to your own informed decisions.
Check out websites like dorjeshugden-dot-com and participate in the forum there, which is very helpful and where you can ask all your own questions also
"You have been making a villain out of DS practitioners and you claim that China is in conspiracy with DS practitioners to destabilise Tibetan Government in exile.."
YES, closerelative, THAT IS WHAT I´M SAYING. A minority, the Shugden group (Gelug sectarians) are now collaborating with China. And who´s behind it? Nga Lama ("Kundeling") and his Indian based Shugden Society.
@Varavaken Praise China? Nobody is praising China. Everybody has been talking about Dorje Shugden all this while. You on the other hand, have been making a villain out of Dorje Shugden practitioners and you claim that China is in conspiracy with Dorje Shugden practitioners to destabilise Tibetan government in exile which I basically think is rather far-fetched.
Well, much happened since DL puts the ban on DS practices. It's very inspiring that despite the difficulties, hurts and great challenges, practitioners didn't give up. Like what Varavaken mentioned, Shugden practitioners now have their own monasteries and I'm sure there will be more in the near future.
@TheDharmaKnight I have had the fortune to meet many incredible monks - some who were in exile, some who were even in political prisons. Their faith and practice of Dharma remains unwavering. They never give up their practices and never stop having compassion for all beings and the world.
These are the kind of practitioners and inspiring lamas who start new monasteries and centres thruout the world, and cause Dharma to grow even further, in the space of all adversity.
Dalai lama wants a democratic system for Tibetans.
Yet what democratic leader would say that a certain group may not join his public talks due to their religious orientation?
Imagine if Obama said all jews cannot attend his public talks because they don't accept Christ? That could never happen.
So If Dalai lama wishes to emulate G-7 democratic leadership, he has to stop ostracizing anyone even if they practice Dorje Shugden. Ghost or not..simple.
Democracy for all. Yes, I agree. So how come Shugden people are praising China? Is there religious freedom in China? Why are so many good religious teachers in jail? What about the Falun Gong ban?
As long as D.S. practice enjoys the full support of the Chinese authorities, you don´t care.
Although China is promoting Shugden practice (for political reasons) , it is widely rejected by Tibetans. It doesn´t spread among Tibetans in Tibet, from what I´ve heard.
We do not have basis to criticize other forms of buddhism. It's best to focus on our own lineage and refrain from commenting negatively to not fall into the trap of being schismatic.
you know what... there were dorje shugden practitioners waaaaay before the whole china/tibet conflict. What about all the Lamas and people who practised DS BEFORE China took over Tibet? What about Dalai Lama himself who practised DS through many lifetimes? Were they all being corrupted and bribed by Chinese also?! So illogical.
I'm a Dorje Shugden practitioner - i don't think i'm dangerous or fundamentalist at all, though I am prepared to do anything for my Guru and my Protector, within Buddhist principles. And it's not just Gaden Tri - there are so many great Masters who practice Dorje Shugden, whether publicly or secretly. See dorjeshugden (dot) com under 'Great masters'. I wouldn't imagine any of them to be 'very dangerous and fundamentalist either' and they are not western but Tibetan.
the highest Lama of the Gelugpa system, the great representative of Je Tsongkhapa on earth, the 101st Gaden Tri Jetsun loungri Namgyel Rinpoche is a practitioner of Dorje Shugden.
Tells us alot about HIGH LAMAS not just mere Tibetans
101st Gaden Tripa has just retired. HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche (title given after retirement)and his ladrang has left Gaden Shartse Monastery and JOINED SHAR GADEN.
You stupid fool. You´re not defending religious freedom. You´re defending religious fundamentalists. You´re just a parrot, repeating pro-chinese slogans. You don´t seem to know anyting about this issue.
You don´t have to be pro-China just because you practice Shugden. But most Shugden activists are, I´ve read your comments. You praise China. You´re using Chinese slogans, you´re spreading pro-Chinese propaganda. Here´s one example:
"Tibetan culture and religion is alive and flourishing in Tibet, more than in India under Dalai Lama rule."
The Dalai Lama has given himself a bad name, by lying about this issue, then outright banning of the practise, refusing to discuss or debate it, and betraying his own spiritual guides.
Dorje Shugden is a manifestation of Manjushri, he is no demon. The Dalai Lama got that wrong information from an oracle.
"Please, international community, judge whether there is a problem or not. Go there and investigate," he told members of the Dutch parliament on the final day of a three-day visit.
In the case the majority of people genuinely are happy, then our information is wrong ... and we will have to apologise to the Chinese government. Dalai Lama, June 06, 2009
he throws in a charming laugh and smile to disguise his hypocricy. He travels the world condemning china for their religious policies and created his own controversy by persecuting his own tibetan followers. See him for what he is, a fanatic, fundamentalist, and a cia fraud. He doesn't fool me!
New New World Order 国際連盟ＳＡＧＥテーマソング「ピース・オブ・ザ・ワールド」♪ KAZUKI&SIZUKU ♪ United Nations SAGE Theme Song「Peace of the World」・(KAZUKI)2009年 国連ユネスコ世界遺産音楽祭エグゼグティブプロデューサー
'Loud is the noise that ordinary men make. Nobody thinks himself a fool, when divisions arise in the Sangha, nor do they ever value another person higher than themselves.' - The Buddha, Mahavagga
These people are not even Buddhist monks and nuns but members of a cult in UK.
Why does HH the Dalai Lama need to repeat his 'warnings' re Dorje Shugden so many times. If Dorje Shugden truly was a demon and harmful, then HH and other high lamas should just subdue him through ritual. After all Nechung is an evil spirit, subdued by Guru Rinpoche and bound to help. After being subdued, you dont hear Guru Rinpoche warning us re him anymore. So if Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by HH or high lamas, then he must be more powerful than the Dalai Lama??Or he is enlightened.Think.
These people call themselves buddhist.. Please call yourself demon worshiper. You are disgrace to the buddhist society.
Stop Lying Shugden worshiper.
western dorjee shugden is financed by chinese government to bring harm to dalai lamas name. But whole world know the truth. stop your propaganda in the name of religion.
typical liar...evidence????But I have evidences that Dalai Lama was paid by some governments and some group....If you intrested,please search Dalai Lama and CIA
And whatever your culture is, you should not ban Dorje Shugden,,,,because you want religions freedom from CCP, meanwhile, you don't give religion freedomfor the Dorje Shugden...so that means your culture is "selfish"?
I think most Zang ethnic minorities (Tibetans) activists, living outside of their motherland, China and a small number inside China, including a small minority of Western sympathisers have realized that they have lost a lot of respect in the International Communities today. The disruptions of the Olympic Torch, The Beijing Games, The riots in Lhasa, Xizang (Tibet) province of China in March 2008, and many other disruptive demonstrations had been condemn by people worldwide. Peace to the world.
as a matter of fact, DLLM proposed the concept of great tibet in 1980, when he mentioned the total popuation in 3 non-tibet chinese provinces are 6 million, so totally more than 7 million.
His guys stole his concept, and used it to create the story of genocide in 1959.
there was an exhibition in Chicago showing the history of old tibet, with many pictures, that exhibition was held by anti-china activist.
even they said, the most of the monasteries were demolished by the tibetans themselves, why? because they regard ccp as a stronger god which defeated the old god dllm.
many monasteries were in far place, without the help of tibetans how can those few ccp soldiers destroy them?
"Both the Dalai Lama and his advisor and youngest brother, Tendzin Choegyal, claimed that more than 1.2 million Tibetans are dead as a result of the Chinese occupation.36 The official 1953 census--six years before the Chinese crackdown--recorded the entire population residing in Tibet at 1,274,000.37"
ho u know the chinese government can say this or that it doesnt means its true do u have solid evidence about the number of tibetans living today and also in 1949 ?
China destroyed more than 3000 monastery and buddhist temple during the invasion of Tibet, China killed more than 1 million tibetans since 1959 (on a population of 6 millions), its facts.
Everybody reading ur messages see that in china u have been braindirtied, but u should do ur best to try to think by yourself.
1. i surfed the taiwanese website, the ROC statistic bureau recorded the population of tibet in 1949 as 1 million.
2. the concept of 6-7 million tibetans were proposed by dllm himself on 1980's, when he said there are 7 million tibetans living in "great tibet" where includes 3 chinese provinces.
how could ccp kill 1 million tibetans where there were only 1 million tibetans?
hahaha u compare urself with muslims well, haha u got the point u look bit retard, i dont care about what and who is shugden but i know that Buddha told to be urself a good example and i can see that pple who follow ur shugden r the only people who pretend to be buddhist and who make problems to others and by the way the tantric practice pple do must remain secret so in both if u say what u practice in daylight u r in the wrong path.
i never pretended that anyone was "persecuted, twisted nor destroyed" by shugden, i said that shugden's practionner dont show any good example of what should be a buddhist coz they like to make trouble in the street and also that they should keep their tantric practice secret coz its the base of tantra, stop saying others what u practice !!!
First point: looking at all the shugden's pretending follower the shouting that they do in the street, its not a good example of what should be PEACEFULL.
Second point: people who say (in the street) that they practice shugden's sadhanas cannot be taken seriously from a buddhist point of view, simply coz whatever u practice in tantra must remain SECRET, so its also affecting the first point wich is to ask any type of recognition from others who dont agree, coz real practioner wont say a thing.
Hahaha, even from a philosophical point of view u r wrong i simply didnt know that anyone could have a so small understanding i guess its from a lack of "brain using" coz of ur school = u cannot explain that u do "this or that" because ur "opposant" do it except if u want to say that ur opponant is equal to u !
In that case u pretending that "dllm branch" do this or that and u excuse shugden acting of this or that, both side should just try to remember what is buddha's teachings.
1，you didn't and couldn't give any solid evidence that shugdens have persecuted or been harmful for others.
2, you didn't and couldn't give any example that shugdens are bad.
3, mentioning yellow branch helps you to think, what is harmful, and what is not.
shugdens disagreed with the persecution, they protested without using any voilence. DLLM branch disagreed with shugdens, but trying to extinguish shugden by violence.
1-yeah i dont have to give any type of evidence about persecution of any of the side coz its not my point , my point is just to say that pple who practice tantra shouldnt say that they practice this or that coz its simply the sign of a misunderstood of the meaning of "what is a deity", from my point of view both side r wrong: shugden musn't have to say what they practice and other dont have to say them what to practice, dllm have right to choose pple he want to teach to.
only the yellow practice this shugden others school just dont care about this deity.
About dllm yeah i think he just have right to say to his students to dont practice this or that but he cannot say to harm other who practice this or that.
Shugdens should stop making noise and continue their practice, whatever from my point of view pple seem to misunderstand what is buddhism, buddhism is to practice on your own mind u just dont have to take care of what other thing about u, just practice.
Yes, Buddha didnt kill anyone and is good people so thats why its not good to bring any kind of disgrace to this tradition.
By the way its look strange that lots of supporters of shugdens r also working with the chinese government, and as i saw about urself on ur own pc u seem to have lots of relations with "china government" right ?
it's not strange, because they can practise it in China. they are not only working with chinese, they are working with UN, Amnesty, swissland etc. countries which would accept them.
and it is not fault to have relationship with china, there is no country in the world which doesn't have relationship with china.
unlike USA, china didn't give shugdens 30 million $ to maintain their operation.
I meant some leaders of shugdens r possibly involved in china politics, i sure that if china make their own dalai lama they will make him practice shugden, hehehe everybody see what china govt play with.
U right about relation with china, myself i love china, its history, pple, language, traditions, philosophy, architecture, music etc.... i dont criticize china nor chinese pple but just wish that tibetans will have right to practice buddhism as they done since centuries.
where is your evidences that the shugden leaders are involved in politics?
if they want other people to respect their right to practise buddism, they should respect the shugdens too, as shugden branch were never enemies of yellow branch, they were brothers, families, colleagues, friends. How can they kill own brothers?
the tibetans in Dhalamshala are not real buddists, they have violated all basic buddism principles.
well u can educate urself and search on the web news about the murders done by shugden members, the indian police arrested six persons belonging to shugden for crimes, shugdens went to the home of old monk and killed him with 2 other monks the police chief said after the enquiry, the shugdens r in jail not dalai side ! this is one solid evidence.
There is also evidence that shugdens leader working with china politics for trying to discredite dllm nd buddhism, in that case china is 100% wrong.
i surfed on the internet, even the indian police can not find any evidences that shugdens killed anybody. The shugdens claimed that yellow branch killed own people to black painting shugdens.
it's very funny that if you have already choose your side, how can you say you are honest and justice?
you hear only things you want to hear, do you call this justice?
The evidence: chief of indian police said that they arrested and put in indian jail 6 shugdens pple for the triple murder done recently in kangra district recently: 1 old buddhist monk and 2 younger buddhist monks (while shugdens enter in their house to kill them), its seem that u dont accept the facts, i think u choose to ignore the fact but as i said u r working for china propaganda (evidence is: google ur name)
gangchen lama and china orchestrate this protest. china provided money and gangchen provided protseters.
gangchen goes to tibet and present himself as Chenrezig(DALAI LAMA) for innocent tibetan people, that is why, with gangchen's idea china is banning H.H.DALAI LAMA'S picture in TIBET, but tibetans are NOT stupid,they know everything,except they have no power or freedom .
gangchen only see the chinese money,he can not see how much harm he is doing towards humanity by supporting china(ccp)
Shugden was a monk who died hundreds of years ago in Tibet. I can't believe this people still worship a dead man. Did't buddha say not to worship a dead man?
Originally, for about 25 years this 14th Dalai Lama perceived Dorje Shugden as enlightened and there were no problems between Buddhist practitioners about this deity. Now, because he changed his view for political reasons to that of ordinary people we have these problems, a worldwide schism never before experienced in Buddhism.
I practised Dorge Shugden for years mainly to help protect the dharma in my mind (love & compassion & my understanding of emptiness etc)& never asked him for money or to hurt anyone or anything like that. Superstition is endemic in Tibetan society & in the past some Lamas have attributed some bad things to Dorge Shugden because it suited their purpose as it now suits the Dalai Lamas. They use invisible entities, spirits or Buddhas, as scapegoats & also to further their own agendas.
its all about the moneeyy-damdam da da tam. why dont you spend the money, energy and time to do something that has actually something to do with dharma?????? once you dedicate your life to dharma in the same scope as HIS HOLINESS THE DALAI LAMA does-you might be worthy to be listen too- otherwise you are just a bunch of people who dont want to deal with their own dirt but want to clean all the neigbors doors.
it's funny how Chinese nationalist crow on about how terrible America is and how democracy & human rights are just inventions by the CIA to bring down China yet they use the American concept that all those that fight for their freedom are terrorists. It illuminates how myopic their view on the world is. they see it through the prism that the CCP provides them.
the dalai lama is not the holy man most people think. thats what you get when you start worshiping ordinary man as God and "holy". theres no such thing as a perfect unholy human.
you are right he is not a holy man he himself use to tell he is one ordinary monk.So ????? WHERE IS THE QUESTION ?? I think he is holy man this is what I BELIEVE so I am not allow to BELIEVE OR NOT???
You're talking about the murders of Geshe Lobsang and his assistants. It is well-known that many people had good reason to commit this crime, especially as there was a huge amount of money involved recently collected in Taiwan. Police cleared Shugden people of any involvement. Get the facts.
But what about the report of the Dalai Lama's govt. assassinating Gongtang Tsultrim, leader of the 13 settlements, in 1975?
And there are many such reports of the dark side of the dalai lama...
Known Shugden cult members, Lobsang Chodak & Tenzil Choezim are listed on the C.B.I (Indian equivalent of the F.B.I) WANTED LIST: (see CBI Website Wanted List),
in connection to the triple murder of Geshe Lobsang and two students. The CBI state that the two have sought refuge with the Chinese Government in Tibet.
21persual and all,I know its silly to give you more explanations and evidences. there is a saying: Dharma teachings to the ears of a wolf, doesn't make any sense.
anyway go and see some tragedies done by shugdhan people. go to youtube at (newkadampa) the spirit and the controversy. you will be happy to know what kind of a gangsters you belong to.
Amnesty International (AI) has received and studied a large amount of material alleging human rights abuses against worshippers of the Tibetan Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden. These alleged abuses are reported to have happened largely in Tibetan settlements in India. None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses. AI campaigns on the grave violations of human rights in Tibet.
who is this bitch kelsang pema..first of all stick wit ur english name nd religion..im sick of seein ur face everywher fukin slut...u dont kno shytt abt dorjee shugden nd its history wit tibetans, it goes way back nd deep..
Thank you - it is Dorje Shugden who is protecting the Kadam Dharma from degeneration.
By telling the Dalai Lama to stop lying we are helping him to improve himself. His behaviour is not at all kind or compassionate - he does not care what happens to Shugden people...so he needs help to stop him creating such bad karma for himself. Therefore we protestors are trying to help him.
You clearly do not understand about Dharma Protector's function. To protect Dharma in the minds of practitioners. Since the Dalai Lama abandoned this protector he has little Dharma left in his mind...certainly no compassion.
Fundamentalism starts with a claim of purity. The Nazis had their "pure German blood", and some Shugden purists have their "pure Gelug lineage" - although Shugden was never taught by the Buddha, Atisha or Tsonghapa, which "pure tradition" they claim to hold. What a confusion. Defending purity has nothing to do with compassion but firm religious beliefs. Strong religious beliefs may lead to fundamentalism. To label fundamentalism and its outcome (these protests) as acts of compassion is confusion
The protests are using democratic freedom of speech to protect a religious lineage from destruction. They are not negative. We are trying to stop the Dalai Lama spreading lies - as he never replies to us personally but only through his "teachings" we have no choice but to bring this issue to the world's attention in this way.
Please stop comparing Shugden people to Nazis - Dorje Shugden was a disciple of Buddha Shakyamuni appearing as Manjushri. This is a positive attitude and harms nobody.
Freedom of speech, no problem. What lies is HHDL telling?
I didn't compare Shugden people with the Nazis, I said fundamentalists, like the Nazis, love the idea of "pure German blood" and feared to mix it. Likewise some fanatical Shugdenpas like the idea of "pure lineage" fearing to "mix" it with other Buddhist teachings. There is a similarity in structure behind the beliefs. Please give a quote from the Kangyur/Tangyur which proofs your claim "Dorje Shugden was a disciple of Buddha Shakyamuni"
There is no fear to mix. We are very content with our lineage thank you. We do not wish to be forced to do other practices - as the DL is now forcing all Tibetans to mix all 5 traditions together. Why? There is no Dharma reason as each is OK as it is. It is just a political ploy. When will you wake up I wonder?
Geshe Kelsang Gyatso - defender of Shugden in the West: "it is mixing different religious traditions that causes sectarianism...studying non-religious subjects is less of an obstacle to our spiritual progress than studying religions of different traditions...the practices taught by one teacher will differ from those taught by another, and if we try to combine them we will become confused, develop doubts, and lose direction."
Why Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is engaging in politics breaking his promises? "everyone knows the NKT and myself completely stopped being involved in this Shugden issue at all levels. I guarantee you that the NKT and myself have never performed inappropriate actions and will never do so in the future, this is our determination. We simply concentrate on the flourishing of holy Buddhadharma throughout the world - we have no other aim. I hope people gradually understand our true nature and function."
Amnesty International (AI) has received and studied a large amount of material alleging human rights abuses against worshippers of the Tibetan Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden. These alleged abuses are reported to have happened largely in Tibetan settlements in India. None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses...AI campaigns on the grave violations of human rights in Tibet.
AI is mandated for torture, murder and imprisonment. The abuses against Shugden people are nowadays worse that these. They have double refugee status. First by the Chinese and now by their own leader who has betrayed them after they worked so hard to help him. How ungrateful and cruel he is.
Although we wish for happiness our ignorance leads us to engage in nonvirtuous action, like accusing the Dalai Lama of being a Liar and Hypocrite, denouncing him at all costs. Such Wrong Speech and actions are the main cause of all our suffering. Also, if we do not cultivate and maintain a good heart our selfish motivation destroys harmony and good relationships with others. We have no inner peace. As you can see at our protests. This is a true Kadampa Truth.
Dear Students of Pimp Kalsang Gyasto, Little knowledge is dangerous as you would know. He is missing your precious life for his personal gain because Tibetans don't recognise him as Lama or Rinpoche. Pls. research well.
Many qualified Geshes, such as Geshe Chekhawa, Geshe Langri Tangpa were qualified before the Dalai Lamas were even dreamed of. They were real, pure Geshes - just like Geshe Kelsang and many other disciples of Trijang Dorejechang and Je Phabonhgkhapa. Whether Tibetans recognise these things or not doesn't matter - what matters is the truth. The Dalai Lama has lied publicly for years humiliating and insulting his teachers - such a bad and shameful state of affairs.
Good to see people finally waking up to the religious persecution being carried out by the Dalai Lama. He claims to be for religious tolerance... but he won't even let people practice Dorje Shugden, a practice which he did himself for decades!!! Another interesting fact... he composed a praise to Dorje Shugden called "Melody of the unceasing vajra". Now, why the big change of heart? His reasons are purely political in nature. He has no valid reasons for his forced ban on Dorje Shugden.
These disgraceful people disturbing peace and spirit of Bodhisattvas. they wearing Buddha's robs but acting like crazy dogs. that is called ( pretending gods,acting devils)
Copyright violation? BBC video stolen? No wonder from people who don't follow Buddhism but claim to be more holy than the rest of the world. New Kadampa Tradition shame on you!
A Tibetan cult, Shugden, is suspected of spearheading what could become a violent movement against the Dalai Lama. The posters may well be the handiwork of this sect. The writings on the walls of Dharamshala say the Dalai Lama and his followers will be assassinated if they do not leave India
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who is this mother fucker Kalsang pema. I just want fuck this lady. she knows nothing about buddhism. She is only mercenary taliban buddhist
tashitselhu 2 weeks ago
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taliban buddhist.
tashitselhu 2 weeks ago
I respect all other relgious beliefs as long as they do no harm to others and do not enforce their religiou moral convictions on others (like the Christians).
The Human Rights Award given to the Dalai Lama should be revoked. Tibets lived under his rule suffer abject poverty and cruelty. When he was the leader of Tibet, what had he done to help the serfs and slaves?
TheSpeaknoevil 3 months ago
@TheSpeaknoevil
When he became the leader (1950) Tibet was already invaded.
He was 16 years old.
Varavaken 1 month ago
Devil lama on the earth : Dalai lama (CIA puppet)
XpresloX 7 months ago
The Dalai Lama never asked you to stop worshipping this shugden deity. He advised us the tibetans not to worship this diety giving reasons. So you westerners are free to worship this diety if you guys think he is the buddha
pemaji1 11 months ago
all the Dorje Shugden practitioners that I know of, myself included, are compassionate people who just want to help release others from suffering.
We are not against the Dalai Lama; we merely request that we are allowed to practise the teachings of our gurus, and that includes the practice of Dorje Shugden, as he is an aspect of the wisdom Buddha Manjushri.
Sammicsno 1 year ago
all the shugden practitioners are bitches..................
derge1722 1 year ago
I replied myself by mistake. Never mind.
Varavaken 1 year ago
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For the first time ever, H.H. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's autobiography THE ILLUSORY PLAY is now fully available in English.
Download this beautifully translated account of Trijang Rinpoche's life at dorjeshugden(dot)com.
A MUST READ!
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
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TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
lamstillsingle1
Shugden is no longers a part of the Gelug tradition, that´s the big change. THE GELUG LAMAS, THE MONASTIC COMMUNITIES AND THE MAJORITY OF THE TIBETAN PEOPLE AGREE ON THIS.
Shugden monks are free to practice in their own monasteries, there is no religious persecution.
You´re right, there are refugees among older practitioners, but the young Shugden monks are sent to India. They are loyal to the CCP and they have Chinese passports, they are not refugees .
Varavaken 1 year ago
Is Dorje Shugden was really an evil demon, then the unmistaken incarnation of TULKU DRAKPA GYELTSEN would not be back in the world...
BUT HE IS!
Dorjeshugden (do t) com
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
The Delhi High Court dismissed Dorje Shugden Devotees charges in april 2010!
Amnesty International came to the same conclusion 1998. (AI, Document - China: AI´s position on alleged abuses against worshippers of Tibetan deity Dorje Shugden.)
Varavaken 1 year ago
I call on everyone to please email the Dalai Lama to ask him to immediately stop this harmful ban. It's all on video to see, you've heard about the open public discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners... The Dalai Lama only needs to say the word and this could all stop tomorrow.
Amazing he doesn't do this. This winner of the Nobel Peace Prize does not seemed concerned at all about the intense suffering and persecution going on right under his nose.
Please let him know what you think.
floatinghippos 1 year ago
@floatinghippos
What suffering? Shugden monks are free to practice. They have their own monasteries. Most of them are NOT refugees. They come from eastern Tibet. They have Chinese passports. They are loyal to the CCP.
Tibetan monks in China, on the other hand, are suffering in Chinese prisons.
According to the Chinese rulers, it´s Shugden or the Dalai Lama. Those who do not practice Shugden are seen as members of "the unpatriotic Dalai clique".
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken I wish what you said was true. I really do wish shugden monks were free to practice. They had to build their own monasteries after this ban because of the separation and severing of connections required by the oath taken by those who oppose the shugden practice. And yes, the monks are actually refugees, and suffer greatly in India, where tibetan communities are so close knit. The ironic thing is, the ones i know who have taken the oath against shugden practice have chinese passport
Iamstillsingle1 1 year ago
@Varavaken
stupid...brainless...visit south india...monasteries in mundgod and mysore..
then you realise what he has blessed...be reality..i have seen these messes and inconveniences with my own eyes...
beatchelsea 1 year ago
@beatchelsea
The Dalai Lama is fully supported in his view by the monastic communities.
You know that. He did not decide this alone.
Shugden followers are a minority.
I´m tired of your lies, Western Shugden Society. This discussion has been going on for a long time.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
Yes you are rite, the monasteries support him coz there's no any other options and they all are very afraid of his cruel dictatorship, they know how much problems the Shugden Practitioners monasteries have faced which intentionally conspired by Tibetan Exile Gov...No one dare be a victim of DL and his Gov...thats why they all support him unwillingly....but we cant bear such torture...we will raise our voice like never before until he lift his and accept he was wrong
beatchelsea 1 year ago
@beatchelsea
The monasteries support the Dalai Lama because they agree with his views. They are non-sectarians. The Shugdens purpose is clear and well known in both Gelug and non Gelug schools..
The Shugden group (the Gelug sectarians) is a small minority, they want Gelug supremecy. They grew strong after the death of the 13th Dalai Lama. The conflict in Gelug school (over Shugden) started in lhe late 70s resulted in the "split" 1996. DS groups around the worlds are now allies with China.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
Shugden activists got away with the triple murder 1997 in Dharamsala. The murderers fled to China/Tibet and now have Chinese protection.
They planned to assasinate the Dalai Lama 2006, (a seven member team from China), but failed.
Shugden leaders have managed to indoctrinate ignorant people in the West, there are NKT centers all over the world.
For heaven´s sake - wake up!
Varavaken 1 year ago
dalai lama rules , that monkey bitch doesnt
anatoriac 1 year ago
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"Free Tibet" is a just one of the games that usa is currently engaging china in
there are also "Battle for Darfur's oil" named "Save Darfur" and "Falungong" with human rig hts activists straightly recruited out of CIA is not deceptively planned enough much to USA's shadow government's dismay.
Mystery0Warrior 1 year ago
Delhi High Court dismisses Dorje Shugden Devotees´charges.
(April 5, 2010)
Varavaken 1 year ago
these videos about protests are starting to all kinda look the same now.
I would recommend curious spiritual seekers to read up on the subject of Dorje Shugden instead of relying solely on videos like this. Check out the numerous resources online, websites, forums. dorjeshugden (dot ) com has a great deal of information and has a great forum which supports good debate, questions and learning
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
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Except for the ban on Dorje Shugden, not a single Tibetan god or demon has been discriminated against or abolished, and no other practitioner of any other Tibetan god or demon has been persecuted. Dalai Lama doesn't even speak out against any other religion, cult, occult. Why Dorje Shugden?!
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
The UK had declared that Tibet is a part of China and its amongst the very first sign of all that the Dalai Lama had work for in his lifetime to bring independence to Tibet is not bearing fruit and will be forgotten in time. Hence, like that the ban of Dorje Shugden will be forgotten and he will rise and bring about tremendous growth for Buddhadharma.
closerelative 1 year ago
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Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
That doesn't matter. It's about religious freedom. The Lama himself proclaimed over and over again that it doesn't matter which religion you choose. He also advised the Westerners to stick with their own traditional religion instead of choosing a replacement, e.g. buddhism. As far as I can see, the Lama is nothing else than a clever PR agent, who is in favor or against anything all at the same time. Just as he once endorsed India's nuclear weapon programme & later denied what he said.
Dorfkanal 1 year ago
@Dorfkanal
Don´t start all over again. This case is closed. There is no religious persecution.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@closerelative
China´s aim is to replace Tibetan Buddhism with Chinese party controlled Buddhism. Panchen is their puppet.
Varavaken 1 year ago
all this time, i've not heard a shugden practitioner who i know praise China. Have you? don't get me wrong - i have nothing against China. i don't know the country well enough to comment basically. But from all the discussions on Shugden, it has been about the love of Dorje Shugden and the benefits of his practice. It has been about Guru Devotion to the masters who give us the practice. It has been about the sufferings of those who wish to continue the practice but suffer being ostracised.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
Hhdl does give religious freedom if you think about it. If you practice like your supposed to then you will gain religious freedom. Regardless of what happens around you, you won't be swayed
wangchub 1 year ago
@wangchub that's a good point which I hadn't thought of. Thank you for bringing that up. Actually, if we just do our practices well and follow the dharma, we will definitely get results and attainments.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
@wangchub I guess we only have to look at all those beautiful DS lamas and practitioners around the world now. E.g. geshe kelsang gyatso, gangchen Rinpoche, gongsar rinpoche etc - their students and centres have tremendous freedom of practice and are gaining great results by their practice :) See all the incredible stories over at the dorjeshugden (dot ) come website
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
I came across this article of how HH Penor Rinpoche was unbiased and sympathetic towards Dorje Shugden monks due to the ban and he opened up Namdroling for these monks to get supplies.
It really is_ inspiring and uplifting to read this article... bit [.] ly [/] cbARTJ
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
so WHY are they protesting?
I recommend checking out the many resources online about what's going on with regards to the DS issue. It's important to see the different sides of the story, find out what is happening and come to your own informed decisions.
Check out websites like dorjeshugden-dot-com and participate in the forum there, which is very helpful and where you can ask all your own questions also
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
closerelative
You said:
"You have been making a villain out of DS practitioners and you claim that China is in conspiracy with DS practitioners to destabilise Tibetan Government in exile.."
YES, closerelative, THAT IS WHAT I´M SAYING. A minority, the Shugden group (Gelug sectarians) are now collaborating with China. And who´s behind it? Nga Lama ("Kundeling") and his Indian based Shugden Society.
Varavaken 1 year ago
TheDharmaKnight
I´m also glad they have their own monasteries.
But if you begin to praise China I will tell you about all the Buddhist monks in Chinese prisons...
Varavaken 2 years ago
@Varavaken Praise China? Nobody is praising China. Everybody has been talking about Dorje Shugden all this while. You on the other hand, have been making a villain out of Dorje Shugden practitioners and you claim that China is in conspiracy with Dorje Shugden practitioners to destabilise Tibetan government in exile which I basically think is rather far-fetched.
closerelative 1 year ago
Well, much happened since DL puts the ban on DS practices. It's very inspiring that despite the difficulties, hurts and great challenges, practitioners didn't give up. Like what Varavaken mentioned, Shugden practitioners now have their own monasteries and I'm sure there will be more in the near future.
TheDharmaKnight 2 years ago
@TheDharmaKnight I have had the fortune to meet many incredible monks - some who were in exile, some who were even in political prisons. Their faith and practice of Dharma remains unwavering. They never give up their practices and never stop having compassion for all beings and the world.
These are the kind of practitioners and inspiring lamas who start new monasteries and centres thruout the world, and cause Dharma to grow even further, in the space of all adversity.
TheRedNiece 2 years ago
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Varavaken 2 years ago
imnotafraid23
No, you don´t have to be afraid, do you?
The Shugden ban in the monasteries was not a general ban. China´s ban of Falun Gong was a REAL ban.
Shugden monks have their own
monasteries now. The practice is not forbidden. People can still practice D.S. privately.
Anyone can listen to the Dalai Lama´s public talks.
But he can not give Tantric initiation to those who practice D.S. That´s all.
Don´t spread lies.
Varavaken 2 years ago
Dalai lama wants a democratic system for Tibetans.
Yet what democratic leader would say that a certain group may not join his public talks due to their religious orientation?
Imagine if Obama said all jews cannot attend his public talks because they don't accept Christ? That could never happen.
So If Dalai lama wishes to emulate G-7 democratic leadership, he has to stop ostracizing anyone even if they practice Dorje Shugden. Ghost or not..simple.
Democracy for all!
imnotafraid23 2 years ago
imnotafraid23
Democracy for all. Yes, I agree. So how come Shugden people are praising China? Is there religious freedom in China? Why are so many good religious teachers in jail? What about the Falun Gong ban?
As long as D.S. practice enjoys the full support of the Chinese authorities, you don´t care.
Although China is promoting Shugden practice (for political reasons) , it is widely rejected by Tibetans. It doesn´t spread among Tibetans in Tibet, from what I´ve heard.
Varavaken 2 years ago
Dorge shugden cult is intolerant to other forms of buddhism. Its main reason why dalai lama prohibited this practise.
Asianajana 2 years ago
We do not have basis to criticize other forms of buddhism. It's best to focus on our own lineage and refrain from commenting negatively to not fall into the trap of being schismatic.
TheDharmaKnight 2 years ago
TheReadNiece
Shugden ACTIVISTS today have links with China. That is wat we are talking about.
D.S. in the past had nothing to do with China.
No Shugden practitioner wants to admit this link. They seem to think it´s irrelevant, but it´s not.
Stop spreading your stupid propaganda, and I´ll be silent.
Varavaken 2 years ago
you know what... there were dorje shugden practitioners waaaaay before the whole china/tibet conflict. What about all the Lamas and people who practised DS BEFORE China took over Tibet? What about Dalai Lama himself who practised DS through many lifetimes? Were they all being corrupted and bribed by Chinese also?! So illogical.
TheRedNiece 2 years ago
I'm a Dorje Shugden practitioner - i don't think i'm dangerous or fundamentalist at all, though I am prepared to do anything for my Guru and my Protector, within Buddhist principles. And it's not just Gaden Tri - there are so many great Masters who practice Dorje Shugden, whether publicly or secretly. See dorjeshugden (dot) com under 'Great masters'. I wouldn't imagine any of them to be 'very dangerous and fundamentalist either' and they are not western but Tibetan.
wisdombeing 2 years ago
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wisdombeing 2 years ago
the highest Lama of the Gelugpa system, the great representative of Je Tsongkhapa on earth, the 101st Gaden Tri Jetsun loungri Namgyel Rinpoche is a practitioner of Dorje Shugden.
Tells us alot about HIGH LAMAS not just mere Tibetans
harrynephew 2 years ago
Dorgee Schugden group are very dangerous and fundamentalist people. They are prepared to do everything ...
We Tibetans do not need it .. they are most westen people.
oldmapstibet 2 years ago
101st Gaden Tripa has just retired. HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche (title given after retirement)and his ladrang has left Gaden Shartse Monastery and JOINED SHAR GADEN.
Read it in the forum at dorjeshugden(dot)com
TheDharmaKnight 2 years ago
Dorje shugden kiss my dog ass....suck my dick.....
sakadhawa 2 years ago
jewishwarrior666
You stupid fool. You´re not defending religious freedom. You´re defending religious fundamentalists. You´re just a parrot, repeating pro-chinese slogans. You don´t seem to know anyting about this issue.
Varavaken 2 years ago
anti-dalai lama is equivalent to pro-chinese??? where do you learn your logical and critical thinking. find yourself a grammar school!!!
msalvysinger 2 years ago
msalvysinger
You don´t have to be pro-China just because you practice Shugden. But most Shugden activists are, I´ve read your comments. You praise China. You´re using Chinese slogans, you´re spreading pro-Chinese propaganda. Here´s one example:
"Tibetan culture and religion is alive and flourishing in Tibet, more than in India under Dalai Lama rule."
Your group has no credibility whatsoever.
Varavaken 2 years ago
Political and financial support from China.
Terrorist methods.
Religious freedom?
What a great deception.
Varavaken 2 years ago
Varavaken
The dalai lama brought this on himself by suppression religion. Hypocrite!
jewishwarrior666 2 years ago
Most of us know by now that this is not about an innocent prayer.
Their intent is to undermine the Dalai Lama.
We also know about the triple murder.
Varavaken 2 years ago
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Dalai lama tried destroy his rival (Dorje shughen) ! He dont have any COMPASSION to human being !
clavie05 2 years ago
Simply Fuckkk Shukden. Rot in he'll. God Willing
sunam11 2 years ago
Yes you free tibet fanatics are such benevolent souls!
jewishwarrior666 2 years ago
The Dalai Lama has given himself a bad name, by lying about this issue, then outright banning of the practise, refusing to discuss or debate it, and betraying his own spiritual guides.
Dorje Shugden is a manifestation of Manjushri, he is no demon. The Dalai Lama got that wrong information from an oracle.
Sammicsno 2 years ago
"Please, international community, judge whether there is a problem or not. Go there and investigate," he told members of the Dutch parliament on the final day of a three-day visit.
In the case the majority of people genuinely are happy, then our information is wrong ... and we will have to apologise to the Chinese government. Dalai Lama, June 06, 2009
dorje168 2 years ago
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Dalai Lama respect human right now !!!!
Dalai Lama stop pesercution tibetan minks now !!!!
Dalai Lama stop your hate now !!!!!
clavie05 2 years ago
he throws in a charming laugh and smile to disguise his hypocricy. He travels the world condemning china for their religious policies and created his own controversy by persecuting his own tibetan followers. See him for what he is, a fanatic, fundamentalist, and a cia fraud. He doesn't fool me!
888reventon 2 years ago
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New New World Order 国際連盟ＳＡＧＥテーマソング「ピース・オブ・ザ・ワールド」♪ KAZUKI&SIZUKU ♪ United Nations SAGE Theme Song「Peace of the World」・(KAZUKI)2009年 国連ユネスコ世界遺産音楽祭エグゼグティブプロデューサー
ASIA政治経済協力機構 代表中井天山
sageunr 2 years ago
Obama carries the MARKS OF THE BEAST.
This video will change your life and also the world soon.
See it at my page's video.
EndOfTimesApocalypse 2 years ago
'Loud is the noise that ordinary men make. Nobody thinks himself a fool, when divisions arise in the Sangha, nor do they ever value another person higher than themselves.' - The Buddha, Mahavagga
These people are not even Buddhist monks and nuns but members of a cult in UK.
ABCDIR 2 years ago
Why does HH the Dalai Lama need to repeat his 'warnings' re Dorje Shugden so many times. If Dorje Shugden truly was a demon and harmful, then HH and other high lamas should just subdue him through ritual. After all Nechung is an evil spirit, subdued by Guru Rinpoche and bound to help. After being subdued, you dont hear Guru Rinpoche warning us re him anymore. So if Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by HH or high lamas, then he must be more powerful than the Dalai Lama??Or he is enlightened.Think.
iwannaberich2007 2 years ago
These people call themselves buddhist.. Please call yourself demon worshiper. You are disgrace to the buddhist society.
Stop Lying Shugden worshiper.
western dorjee shugden is financed by chinese government to bring harm to dalai lamas name. But whole world know the truth. stop your propaganda in the name of religion.
dokpabhu 2 years ago
shut the fuk up ypu stupid fake nun. you don know shit bitch. fuk u u herad.
davtash612 3 years ago
chemtrails over their heads, foolish humans condemmed to reincarnation.
sheraton114 3 years ago
Communist paid propaganda,
people in the west are fools,
who know nothing of tibetan culture.
sheraton114 3 years ago
typical liar...evidence????But I have evidences that Dalai Lama was paid by some governments and some group....If you intrested,please search Dalai Lama and CIA
shaya001 3 years ago
And whatever your culture is, you should not ban Dorje Shugden,,,,because you want religions freedom from CCP, meanwhile, you don't give religion freedomfor the Dorje Shugden...so that means your culture is "selfish"?
shaya001 3 years ago
Free Dorje Shugde!
mizutofu 2 years ago
bullshit!
popinjay3000 3 years ago
DLLM what a cute puppet `:D
manofadventure 3 years ago
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I think most Zang ethnic minorities (Tibetans) activists, living outside of their motherland, China and a small number inside China, including a small minority of Western sympathisers have realized that they have lost a lot of respect in the International Communities today. The disruptions of the Olympic Torch, The Beijing Games, The riots in Lhasa, Xizang (Tibet) province of China in March 2008, and many other disruptive demonstrations had been condemn by people worldwide. Peace to the world.
Globalvisual 3 years ago
as a matter of fact, DLLM proposed the concept of great tibet in 1980, when he mentioned the total popuation in 3 non-tibet chinese provinces are 6 million, so totally more than 7 million.
His guys stole his concept, and used it to create the story of genocide in 1959.
magnietuit 3 years ago
also, about monastries:
there was an exhibition in Chicago showing the history of old tibet, with many pictures, that exhibition was held by anti-china activist.
even they said, the most of the monasteries were demolished by the tibetans themselves, why? because they regard ccp as a stronger god which defeated the old god dllm.
many monasteries were in far place, without the help of tibetans how can those few ccp soldiers destroy them?
magnietuit 3 years ago
hahaha chinese propaganda do u have this funny link ?
sixtango 3 years ago
wang li xiong is prohibit in china, because he is anti-ccp.
magnietuit 3 years ago
i can't paste link because of the limitation of youtube, but i can give you the name of his blog: 乌有之乡。
note this: wang li xiong is anti-ccp.
magnietuit 3 years ago
source: # Tendzin Choegyal, "The Truth about Tibet," Imprimis (publication of Hillsdale College, Michigan), April 1999.
# Karan, The Changing Face of Tibet, 52-53.
magnietuit 3 years ago
do u have solid evidence that tendzin choegyal is not working with china government ?
sixtango 3 years ago
yes, it is very easy:
1. tendzin choegyal was persecuted during the culture revolution, he is not pro-ccp.
2. wang li xiong was political victim since 6.4, 1989, he is not pro-ccp, he is pro-tibet.
3. google ROC statistic bureau, you will find the record of 1949 in tibet.
4. read the book of Dr. M. Goldstein: the modernization of tibet, he provided population as well.
instead, none of DH's guy can provide such evidences.
magnietuit 3 years ago
easy, as there is no evidences.
magnietuit 3 years ago
read this:
"Both the Dalai Lama and his advisor and youngest brother, Tendzin Choegyal, claimed that more than 1.2 million Tibetans are dead as a result of the Chinese occupation.36 The official 1953 census--six years before the Chinese crackdown--recorded the entire population residing in Tibet at 1,274,000.37"
magnietuit 3 years ago
ho u know the chinese government can say this or that it doesnt means its true do u have solid evidence about the number of tibetans living today and also in 1949 ?
sixtango 3 years ago
wang li xiong is not ccp.
he is anti-ccp.
magnietuit 3 years ago
when did Shugdens discredit buddism?
DLLM and his people persecuting shugdens, is this called justice of buddism?
China is not against buddism, china has the most buddism tempels in the world, do you call this discredit?
you are just brainwashed.
magnietuit 3 years ago
China destroyed more than 3000 monastery and buddhist temple during the invasion of Tibet, China killed more than 1 million tibetans since 1959 (on a population of 6 millions), its facts.
Everybody reading ur messages see that in china u have been braindirtied, but u should do ur best to try to think by yourself.
sixtango 3 years ago
1. i surfed the taiwanese website, the ROC statistic bureau recorded the population of tibet in 1949 as 1 million.
2. the concept of 6-7 million tibetans were proposed by dllm himself on 1980's, when he said there are 7 million tibetans living in "great tibet" where includes 3 chinese provinces.
how could ccp kill 1 million tibetans where there were only 1 million tibetans?
magnietuit 3 years ago
well we can see that dorje shugden practice didnt bring any peace to people who practice that, now its became a fact.
sixtango 3 years ago
interesting logic.
following your logic, the iraqi's are violent, because they don't like the persecuters.
magnietuit 3 years ago
hahaha u compare urself with muslims well, haha u got the point u look bit retard, i dont care about what and who is shugden but i know that Buddha told to be urself a good example and i can see that pple who follow ur shugden r the only people who pretend to be buddhist and who make problems to others and by the way the tantric practice pple do must remain secret so in both if u say what u practice in daylight u r in the wrong path.
sixtango 3 years ago
give evidences which show who were persecuted, twisted and destroyed by shugdens, physically and spiritually.
magnietuit 3 years ago
i never pretended that anyone was "persecuted, twisted nor destroyed" by shugden, i said that shugden's practionner dont show any good example of what should be a buddhist coz they like to make trouble in the street and also that they should keep their tantric practice secret coz its the base of tantra, stop saying others what u practice !!!
sixtango 3 years ago
please put solid evidences that the shugdens didn't show any good example.
what trouble did they make in the street? where and when?
magnietuit 3 years ago
First point: looking at all the shugden's pretending follower the shouting that they do in the street, its not a good example of what should be PEACEFULL.
Second point: people who say (in the street) that they practice shugden's sadhanas cannot be taken seriously from a buddhist point of view, simply coz whatever u practice in tantra must remain SECRET, so its also affecting the first point wich is to ask any type of recognition from others who dont agree, coz real practioner wont say a thing.
sixtango 3 years ago
have you seen how the followers of yellow branch, which is the branch of dllm, persecuting, threatening shugdens, killing chinese and moslims?
is that good?
magnietuit 3 years ago
Hahaha, even from a philosophical point of view u r wrong i simply didnt know that anyone could have a so small understanding i guess its from a lack of "brain using" coz of ur school = u cannot explain that u do "this or that" because ur "opposant" do it except if u want to say that ur opponant is equal to u !
In that case u pretending that "dllm branch" do this or that and u excuse shugden acting of this or that, both side should just try to remember what is buddha's teachings.
sixtango 3 years ago
1，you didn't and couldn't give any solid evidence that shugdens have persecuted or been harmful for others.
2, you didn't and couldn't give any example that shugdens are bad.
3, mentioning yellow branch helps you to think, what is harmful, and what is not.
shugdens disagreed with the persecution, they protested without using any voilence. DLLM branch disagreed with shugdens, but trying to extinguish shugden by violence.
is that right?
magnietuit 3 years ago
1-yeah i dont have to give any type of evidence about persecution of any of the side coz its not my point , my point is just to say that pple who practice tantra shouldnt say that they practice this or that coz its simply the sign of a misunderstood of the meaning of "what is a deity", from my point of view both side r wrong: shugden musn't have to say what they practice and other dont have to say them what to practice, dllm have right to choose pple he want to teach to.
sixtango 3 years ago
yellow branch and red branch are different branches, although both shugden and dalai lama are considered as students of budda.
dllm doesn't have any right to judge the students from other school and vise versa, shugdens never judged yellow branch as evil or harmful.
magnietuit 3 years ago
only the yellow practice this shugden others school just dont care about this deity.
About dllm yeah i think he just have right to say to his students to dont practice this or that but he cannot say to harm other who practice this or that.
Shugdens should stop making noise and continue their practice, whatever from my point of view pple seem to misunderstand what is buddhism, buddhism is to practice on your own mind u just dont have to take care of what other thing about u, just practice.
sixtango 3 years ago
i think shugdens will stop complaining if dllm's guys can stop persecuting them.
see the documentary made by the swiss TV, the shugdens in DH were murdered, threatened, and physically attacked.
Is that justice? Is that freedom of religion?
magnietuit 3 years ago
Just practice ! if u dont practice in front of small adversity how can u pretend be a practitionner ? westerns pple in that case should shut up coz:
1- they dont even speak tibetan nor what is a deity
2- most of them even dont know the mains teachings of Buddha (the "4 noble truths in detail" and "perfection of wisdom").
So they should remain humble and learn buddhism before saying they r practitionner of this or that.
sixtango 3 years ago
you are right, but how can you practise if you they are trying to stop you by killing and threatening?
the point is not about practising, the point is dllm's guys are stopping them from practising by using violence.
and that's just not right, and that's not allowed by buddism.
a buddist should not kill!
magnietuit 3 years ago
Yes, Buddha didnt kill anyone and is good people so thats why its not good to bring any kind of disgrace to this tradition.
By the way its look strange that lots of supporters of shugdens r also working with the chinese government, and as i saw about urself on ur own pc u seem to have lots of relations with "china government" right ?
watch?v=A4oPimVQKjo&feature=related
sixtango 3 years ago
it's not strange, because they can practise it in China. they are not only working with chinese, they are working with UN, Amnesty, swissland etc. countries which would accept them.
and it is not fault to have relationship with china, there is no country in the world which doesn't have relationship with china.
unlike USA, china didn't give shugdens 30 million $ to maintain their operation.
magnietuit 3 years ago
I meant some leaders of shugdens r possibly involved in china politics, i sure that if china make their own dalai lama they will make him practice shugden, hehehe everybody see what china govt play with.
U right about relation with china, myself i love china, its history, pple, language, traditions, philosophy, architecture, music etc.... i dont criticize china nor chinese pple but just wish that tibetans will have right to practice buddhism as they done since centuries.
sixtango 3 years ago
where is your evidences that the shugden leaders are involved in politics?
if they want other people to respect their right to practise buddism, they should respect the shugdens too, as shugden branch were never enemies of yellow branch, they were brothers, families, colleagues, friends. How can they kill own brothers?
the tibetans in Dhalamshala are not real buddists, they have violated all basic buddism principles.
magnietuit 3 years ago
well u can educate urself and search on the web news about the murders done by shugden members, the indian police arrested six persons belonging to shugden for crimes, shugdens went to the home of old monk and killed him with 2 other monks the police chief said after the enquiry, the shugdens r in jail not dalai side ! this is one solid evidence.
There is also evidence that shugdens leader working with china politics for trying to discredite dllm nd buddhism, in that case china is 100% wrong.
sixtango 3 years ago
are there any evidences found?
i surfed on the internet, even the indian police can not find any evidences that shugdens killed anybody. The shugdens claimed that yellow branch killed own people to black painting shugdens.
it's very funny that if you have already choose your side, how can you say you are honest and justice?
you hear only things you want to hear, do you call this justice?
magnietuit 3 years ago
The evidence: chief of indian police said that they arrested and put in indian jail 6 shugdens pple for the triple murder done recently in kangra district recently: 1 old buddhist monk and 2 younger buddhist monks (while shugdens enter in their house to kill them), its seem that u dont accept the facts, i think u choose to ignore the fact but as i said u r working for china propaganda (evidence is: google ur name)
sixtango 3 years ago
it is not what i don't accept, even the indians can not put any solid evidences that the shugdens for sure killed anybody.
if you are sure about their crime, please paste the internet link when the indian police found the solid evidence.
magnietuit 3 years ago
gangchen lama and china orchestrate this protest. china provided money and gangchen provided protseters.
gangchen goes to tibet and present himself as Chenrezig(DALAI LAMA) for innocent tibetan people, that is why, with gangchen's idea china is banning H.H.DALAI LAMA'S picture in TIBET, but tibetans are NOT stupid,they know everything,except they have no power or freedom .
gangchen only see the chinese money,he can not see how much harm he is doing towards humanity by supporting china(ccp)
huvanlee 3 years ago 3
come on, the shugdens have been protested dllm for more than 10 years!
magnietuit 3 years ago
the Shugden have "freedom of expression" in Nottingham..........but guess what they have in India....
DuhLie 3 years ago
Shugden was a monk who died hundreds of years ago in Tibet. I can't believe this people still worship a dead man. Did't buddha say not to worship a dead man?
czrsilp 3 years ago
well, worshipping a dead man is as stupid and ridiculous as worshipping a reincarnated being...wouldn't you say?
DuhLie 3 years ago
Jesus died long time ago
So is Mohamed.
stirrrrrr 3 years ago
tell that to czrsilp.
DuhLie 3 years ago
Originally, for about 25 years this 14th Dalai Lama perceived Dorje Shugden as enlightened and there were no problems between Buddhist practitioners about this deity. Now, because he changed his view for political reasons to that of ordinary people we have these problems, a worldwide schism never before experienced in Buddhism.
gyalchen7 3 years ago
I practised Dorge Shugden for years mainly to help protect the dharma in my mind (love & compassion & my understanding of emptiness etc)& never asked him for money or to hurt anyone or anything like that. Superstition is endemic in Tibetan society & in the past some Lamas have attributed some bad things to Dorge Shugden because it suited their purpose as it now suits the Dalai Lamas. They use invisible entities, spirits or Buddhas, as scapegoats & also to further their own agendas.
iamnotaplatypus 3 years ago
its all about the moneeyy-damdam da da tam. why dont you spend the money, energy and time to do something that has actually something to do with dharma?????? once you dedicate your life to dharma in the same scope as HIS HOLINESS THE DALAI LAMA does-you might be worthy to be listen too- otherwise you are just a bunch of people who dont want to deal with their own dirt but want to clean all the neigbors doors.
romoon2000 3 years ago
for more details watch below
watch?v=V9ni15ueFZk&feature=related
Freealll 3 years ago
it's funny how Chinese nationalist crow on about how terrible America is and how democracy & human rights are just inventions by the CIA to bring down China yet they use the American concept that all those that fight for their freedom are terrorists. It illuminates how myopic their view on the world is. they see it through the prism that the CCP provides them.
lttlebighrn 3 years ago
the dalai lama is not the holy man most people think. thats what you get when you start worshiping ordinary man as God and "holy". theres no such thing as a perfect unholy human.
duio 3 years ago
you are right he is not a holy man he himself use to tell he is one ordinary monk.So ????? WHERE IS THE QUESTION ?? I think he is holy man this is what I BELIEVE so I am not allow to BELIEVE OR NOT???
tibetanphoser 3 years ago
You're talking about the murders of Geshe Lobsang and his assistants. It is well-known that many people had good reason to commit this crime, especially as there was a huge amount of money involved recently collected in Taiwan. Police cleared Shugden people of any involvement. Get the facts.
But what about the report of the Dalai Lama's govt. assassinating Gongtang Tsultrim, leader of the 13 settlements, in 1975?
And there are many such reports of the dark side of the dalai lama...
lionheart3724 3 years ago
::KNOWN SHUGDEN CULT MEMBERS ON WANTED LIST::
Known Shugden cult members, Lobsang Chodak & Tenzil Choezim are listed on the C.B.I (Indian equivalent of the F.B.I) WANTED LIST: (see CBI Website Wanted List),
in connection to the triple murder of Geshe Lobsang and two students. The CBI state that the two have sought refuge with the Chinese Government in Tibet.
lttlebighrn 3 years ago
21persual and all,I know its silly to give you more explanations and evidences. there is a saying: Dharma teachings to the ears of a wolf, doesn't make any sense.
anyway go and see some tragedies done by shugdhan people. go to youtube at (newkadampa) the spirit and the controversy. you will be happy to know what kind of a gangsters you belong to.
amboy4 3 years ago
Christianity is not a religion...it is the truth. May the spirit of Jesus Christ fill your life with happiness, love, and compassion for others
DivinelyGifted 3 years ago
Amnesty International on Dorje Shugden
(AI, USA | June 1998)
Amnesty International (AI) has received and studied a large amount of material alleging human rights abuses against worshippers of the Tibetan Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden. These alleged abuses are reported to have happened largely in Tibetan settlements in India. None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses. AI campaigns on the grave violations of human rights in Tibet.
EXTRACT FROM AMNESTY REPORT
lttlebighrn 3 years ago
FUNNY...VERY FUNNY
shaya001 3 years ago
who is this bitch kelsang pema..first of all stick wit ur english name nd religion..im sick of seein ur face everywher fukin slut...u dont kno shytt abt dorjee shugden nd its history wit tibetans, it goes way back nd deep..
213kilacali 3 years ago
Dear protesters, remind the Kadam teachings of Lord Atisha:
"Beware, offending a holy being is worse than dying, therefore be honest and straightforward.
Since all the happiness and suffering of this life arise from previous actions, do not blame others.
Do not look for faults in others, but look for faults in yourself, and purge them like bad blood."
ABCDIR 3 years ago
Thank you - it is Dorje Shugden who is protecting the Kadam Dharma from degeneration.
By telling the Dalai Lama to stop lying we are helping him to improve himself. His behaviour is not at all kind or compassionate - he does not care what happens to Shugden people...so he needs help to stop him creating such bad karma for himself. Therefore we protestors are trying to help him.
21perusal 3 years ago
I think Shugden needs protection. Why have his followers to fight for him?
Is he a protector? If he is a protector why he does not protect his own followers?
A bit weird this stuff.
ABCDIR 3 years ago
You clearly do not understand about Dharma Protector's function. To protect Dharma in the minds of practitioners. Since the Dalai Lama abandoned this protector he has little Dharma left in his mind...certainly no compassion.
21perusal 3 years ago
Fundamentalism starts with a claim of purity. The Nazis had their "pure German blood", and some Shugden purists have their "pure Gelug lineage" - although Shugden was never taught by the Buddha, Atisha or Tsonghapa, which "pure tradition" they claim to hold. What a confusion. Defending purity has nothing to do with compassion but firm religious beliefs. Strong religious beliefs may lead to fundamentalism. To label fundamentalism and its outcome (these protests) as acts of compassion is confusion
ABCDIR 3 years ago
The protests are using democratic freedom of speech to protect a religious lineage from destruction. They are not negative. We are trying to stop the Dalai Lama spreading lies - as he never replies to us personally but only through his "teachings" we have no choice but to bring this issue to the world's attention in this way.
Please stop comparing Shugden people to Nazis - Dorje Shugden was a disciple of Buddha Shakyamuni appearing as Manjushri. This is a positive attitude and harms nobody.
21perusal 3 years ago
Freedom of speech, no problem. What lies is HHDL telling?
I didn't compare Shugden people with the Nazis, I said fundamentalists, like the Nazis, love the idea of "pure German blood" and feared to mix it. Likewise some fanatical Shugdenpas like the idea of "pure lineage" fearing to "mix" it with other Buddhist teachings. There is a similarity in structure behind the beliefs. Please give a quote from the Kangyur/Tangyur which proofs your claim "Dorje Shugden was a disciple of Buddha Shakyamuni"
ABCDIR 3 years ago
There is no fear to mix. We are very content with our lineage thank you. We do not wish to be forced to do other practices - as the DL is now forcing all Tibetans to mix all 5 traditions together. Why? There is no Dharma reason as each is OK as it is. It is just a political ploy. When will you wake up I wonder?
21perusal 3 years ago
So? Do you like a quote?
Geshe Kelsang Gyatso - defender of Shugden in the West: "it is mixing different religious traditions that causes sectarianism...studying non-religious subjects is less of an obstacle to our spiritual progress than studying religions of different traditions...the practices taught by one teacher will differ from those taught by another, and if we try to combine them we will become confused, develop doubts, and lose direction."
ABCDIR 3 years ago
If it is a political ploy why NKT engages in politics, I thought they are "pure practitioners", "don't mixing Dharma with politics"?
When NKT is waking up from their politics?
ABCDIR 3 years ago
Why Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is engaging in politics breaking his promises? "everyone knows the NKT and myself completely stopped being involved in this Shugden issue at all levels. I guarantee you that the NKT and myself have never performed inappropriate actions and will never do so in the future, this is our determination. We simply concentrate on the flourishing of holy Buddhadharma throughout the world - we have no other aim. I hope people gradually understand our true nature and function."
ABCDIR 3 years ago
Amnesty International on Dorje Shugden
(Amnesty International | USA | June 1998)
Amnesty International (AI) has received and studied a large amount of material alleging human rights abuses against worshippers of the Tibetan Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden. These alleged abuses are reported to have happened largely in Tibetan settlements in India. None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses...AI campaigns on the grave violations of human rights in Tibet.
lttlebighrn 3 years ago
AI is mandated for torture, murder and imprisonment. The abuses against Shugden people are nowadays worse that these. They have double refugee status. First by the Chinese and now by their own leader who has betrayed them after they worked so hard to help him. How ungrateful and cruel he is.
21perusal 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Although we wish for happiness our ignorance leads us to engage in nonvirtuous action, like accusing the Dalai Lama of being a Liar and Hypocrite, denouncing him at all costs. Such Wrong Speech and actions are the main cause of all our suffering. Also, if we do not cultivate and maintain a good heart our selfish motivation destroys harmony and good relationships with others. We have no inner peace. As you can see at our protests. This is a true Kadampa Truth.
ABCDIR 3 years ago
Dear Students of Pimp Kalsang Gyasto, Little knowledge is dangerous as you would know. He is missing your precious life for his personal gain because Tibetans don't recognise him as Lama or Rinpoche. Pls. research well.
roofofworld 3 years ago
Many qualified Geshes, such as Geshe Chekhawa, Geshe Langri Tangpa were qualified before the Dalai Lamas were even dreamed of. They were real, pure Geshes - just like Geshe Kelsang and many other disciples of Trijang Dorejechang and Je Phabonhgkhapa. Whether Tibetans recognise these things or not doesn't matter - what matters is the truth. The Dalai Lama has lied publicly for years humiliating and insulting his teachers - such a bad and shameful state of affairs.
21perusal 3 years ago
Good to see people finally waking up to the religious persecution being carried out by the Dalai Lama. He claims to be for religious tolerance... but he won't even let people practice Dorje Shugden, a practice which he did himself for decades!!! Another interesting fact... he composed a praise to Dorje Shugden called "Melody of the unceasing vajra". Now, why the big change of heart? His reasons are purely political in nature. He has no valid reasons for his forced ban on Dorje Shugden.
floatinghippos 3 years ago
These disgraceful people disturbing peace and spirit of Bodhisattvas. they wearing Buddha's robs but acting like crazy dogs. that is called ( pretending gods,acting devils)
amboy4 3 years ago
Copyright violation? BBC video stolen? No wonder from people who don't follow Buddhism but claim to be more holy than the rest of the world. New Kadampa Tradition shame on you!
ABCDIR 3 years ago
According to a newspaper,
A Tibetan cult, Shugden, is suspected of spearheading what could become a violent movement against the Dalai Lama. The posters may well be the handiwork of this sect. The writings on the walls of Dharamshala say the Dalai Lama and his followers will be assassinated if they do not leave India
tenacioustaut 3 years ago
Protestants DO NOT HAVE TO live in Vatican City, where only Catholics live.
I wonder why Dorje Shugden practitioners want to live in Daramsara, where the Dalai Lama lives.
tibetanheart 3 years ago