Sts. Peter and Paul (Orthodox Western Rite)

[ikseret]

With all due respect, why does the priest have to hold the paper during the incensation?

[ukerkater]

Interesting-- I'm Eastern Orthodox and I have not heard of this variety of Orthodoxy. (I don't think that there are parishes in Canada.) How does W.O. differ from E.O? Are we actually in formal communion?

[yodasbro]

Was this filmed in a closet?

[joesuaiden]

@yodasbro no.

[StupidJuiceYa]

I enjoy the Western Rite, but how do you grow in faith when virtually all of the writings are designed for the Eastern Rite.

[joesuaiden]

@StupidJuiceYa Not all the writings at all. In fact, many Western Fathers make clear reference to their own liturgical uses. Without the Western Rite, what they discuss sometimes makes no sense.

[WeenisLad]

The Western Rite really is (sadly) one of the best kept secrets of the Orthodox Faith. May God guide its growth so it may someday renew the West itself.

[kayaburning]

God bless Orthodoxy, as well as all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ, now and forever and unto ages of ages, amen!!!

[nycxenia]

LOL @ the idea that *ALL* cradle Orthodox are with SCOBA. To say such a thing would be equal to saying, True Orthodox Christians do not baptize their infants and that there are no other jurisdictions under the sun but SCOBA where cradle Orthodox dwell. Take your time to make clear what you say, so that your own words do not sneak up on you and bite you in the end. BTW, I converted from occultism and have been Orthodox a few years less than you've been alive.

[tmh726]

@nycxenia hm...we are all converts. "cradel Orthodox" and converts both converted. we don't come out of the womb already baptised :-) Hristos Voskrese!

[LiturgicalChants]

10 people claiming to be "the true church" is always an unfortunate circumstance, especially when theyre converts from old and new catholicism. Whereas all the cradle Orthodox are with SCOBA. Schism always saddens me. I'm not aware of the false ecumenism. A vocal and frightened minority invokes the canons forbidding prayer with heretics and proclaims that the Orthodox faith goes down the drain at every ecumenical event.

[joesuaiden]

Would you count those Anglicans in the Antiochians (or "Angliochians" as I say) using the book of common prayer as "cradle Orthodox"? I am sure that's what they consider themselves... after all, they are using the same rites they've always used... I am saddened. You admit you are ashamed of things SCOBA does; now you defend it wholeheartedly.... Does it bother you that even stupid Westerners using stupid Western rites are still smart enough to know what heresy is?

[joesuaiden]

P.S. It isn't "10 people"... it's closer to 10% of Orthodoxy in America.

[joesuaiden]

One last thing. You said our texts "sound" Orthodox. Our texts ARE Orthodox, and have the sanction of the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox West. We didn't "write" them, nor did we "adapt" Papal or Anglican uses. We just use the Orthodox Western services.

[FrAugustine431]

Well, we aren't 10 people. There are many more than 10 people. And even if it was it would not matter as to whether what one believes is factually true Dogma or not.

I would concure with Joseph and Xenia that it is counterfactual that "all the cradle Orthodox are with SCOBA". Unless you mean 'ethnic' Orthodox (Greeks, Russians). Then it is really wrong since Greek, Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian True Orthodox (Old Calendarists) number in the millions. We shouldn't play the number game.

[FrAugustine431]

The false ecumenism would be things like Met. Phillip (Saliba) fo the Antiochian group claiming that Islam is just as good a path to God as Christ. Or the Alexandrian Church saying the same thing. And many other instances of a clear dogmatic changes being preached by top hierarchs in the Patriarchates. What canon of the Church states you must remain with a bishop or bishops who preach dogma contrary to the nature of the Orthodox Faith? There are canons which speak about rejecting such.

[Toneytc]

PLease tell me, where & when did Met. Phillip claimis just as good a path to God as Christ. Can you document this? If he has said such a thing I must know.

[Toneytc]

@FrAugustine431 I would still really like to know when and where Met. Philip said that Islam was as good a way to God as Christ. Can you tell me?

[joesuaiden]

@Toneytc probably around the time certain priests close to him were advising seminarians to commune Muslims.

[LiturgicalChants]

Your texts sound Orthodox, sorry you view SCOBA as heretics (I dont agree with all they do either), by the way do you have many Sequences or Hymns for the Mass from any medieval "tropersequentiaries" or "Liber hymnorum/Hymnarium"s? For the divine office also interests me, but primarily for the proper chants of the mass. Preferably sequences not taken from john mason neale and his anglican friends, some good work they did but not really up to date or the best translations.

[LiturgicalChants]

medieval Sequences adapted to english language,.

[FrAugustine431]

We have many sequences for the Mass. However, I would venture a guess, that the majority of Sundays do not have sequences, unless they are special or a feast day falls upon them. I think we have around 90 (??) sequences in all.

Our practice has been basically to see if there is an existing translation. If there is, we compare it to the original Latin text. If there are major problems, or discrepancies, then they are modified. The Winchester Troper is the source for the Tropes.

[joesuaiden]

"Your texts sound Orthodox, sorry you view SCOBA as heretics" -- why are you sorry for any of our views? (Besides, I don't think we blanket label all of SCOBA's membership per se as heretical; the eccelsiastical position of our Synod is more nuanced, so we simply have no communion with ecumenism)-- but more importantly, SCOBA western rite folks just came up with their own "Book of Common Prayer". Why on earth would you feel sorry *for us*?

[LiturgicalChants]

Too much mumbling going on here for me. inaudibility is more a way of avoiding to see if you are truly orthodox or not..hehehhe

[FrAugustine431]

I knew someone would bring up our bad singing combined with bad audio! May the Lord see our intent and forgive our audio result.

However, being there, and having been in the choir stall, I assure you I have always clearly hear what was said.

The first thing you hear or see, is the very last of the Bidding of the Bedes chanted. It is the prayer:

[FrAugustine431]

"We offer Thee, Lord Jesus Christ, this prayer from the rising of the Sun unto the setting therefo, from the right hand side unto the left; to the honour and Glory of hte Divine and Human Natures of Christ; to the honour of the celestial hierarchies, of Michael and Gabriel the Archangels; tot he honour and glory of the Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, and Martyrs; for all virgins, faithful, and penitents, for all that are married; for them that are not exceeding good, ......................

[FrAugustine431]

for them that are not exceeding evi.; for all deserving our prayer and supplication. Through the Same Christ our Lord. Amen.

It is followed by the processional antiphon: Most illustrious of Earth's Princes, forasmuch as in their lives they loved one another, so also in their death, they were not divided.

It is concluded by the verse: Thou shalt make them Princes over all the Earth; Response: They shall have Thy Name in remembrance, O Lord.

[FrAugustine431]

Then the collect

Let us pray. O God, Who hast consecrated this day by the martyrdom of Thine Apostles Peter and Paul; grant unto Thy Church in all things to follow the precepts of those through whom She received the beginning of Her Religion. Through Our Lord Jesus Christ.....

Introit, foot prayers, Kyrie (special feast=verses), Gloria, Collects, Epistle, Gradual, Alleluya, Sequence(feast), Gospel, Creed, and it ends in the offertory. Secrets, Canon, etc. not shown.

[FrAugustine431]

I'm the subdeacon to the left of the celebrant. This is a much better quality video than the previous one! Thanks Xenia! and Joseph.

Though, Joseph, when you were made subdeacon, I don't recall why exactly I was standing where I was. It kind of obscured things.

[joesuaiden]

I thought it was because that was closer to where the vestments used were.

[FrAugustine431]

Yes. That is why. I had to hand the Bishop the tunicle.