Prove Out's time here is the second fastest in the history of Belmont Park at this distance, exceeded only by Secretariat himself. For example, Prove Out's time was better than Easy Goer's time in the 1989 Belmont Stakes, a time that Secretariat almost matched here. The loses to Onion and Angle Light were of flukish; Secretariat defeated both horses decisively. Secretariat i/m/o wins this one with his A game, but PO ran a hell of a race. Upsets happen (Man O War reference).
Even though Secretariat likely wasn't adequately prepared, Prove Out, at the top of his game, is arguably the best horse he ever faced. Prove Out would go on to crush Secretariat's great stablemate, Riva Ridge by 33 lengths in the Jockey Club Gold Cup after the two of them got locked in a suicidal speed duel in the 1st 6F of that 2 mile race. Riva Ridge was totally wasted after that, but Prove Out hung on to win in a time only 0.8 secs off Kelso's WR. He combined great speed and stamina.
An additonal footnote to all of the well-informed comments. According to Nack, Sec was never more than 80%-90% after his illness. Couple that to the effort in the MC and complete lack of preparation for the WW and I am amazed that on a compromised surface Sec managed somewhere around 2 26 and 3/5th's. Somebody tell me of another horse producing that performance under the same set of facts/circumstances.
@bbmtge I think Damascus's victory in the 2 mile JCGC only 1 sec off Kelso's WR following a 3 year old campaign where he ran 2 races per month for each of the 7 previous months prior to the JCGC ranks right up there with this one.The JCGC was the 15th of 16 races D ran at age 3. In that yr he won races at virtually every distance from 6F to 2 miles & defeated 2 of the all time greats. He never ducked any horse or any distance at age 3, ran all the time whether well or ill, & still won 12 of 16.
Basically it was insanity to run Secretariat in this race. Imagine what a shock it was to the horse after being worked out on grass to step on a muddy track and run a race he wasn't training to run. After stopping the clip as Prove Out crosses the finish line it looks like he won by about 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 lengths...that's about 1 second. I think "overambition" pretty much sums up this race. But Lauren wasn't always real smart. He even once said Ruffian may be better than Secretariat. LOL Get real!
This should really be remembered as one of Secretariat's best efforts. Two weeks after setting the world record at 1-1/8, he came second to Prove Out who won running the second fastest 1-1/2 ever at Belmont. The loss to Onion was due to illness, but this one came because of a great run (and maybe some over-ambition). H. Allen Jerkens had Prove Out (a 4yr. old) flying that year. As the great musician Artie Shaw said, if you never make a mistake, your not trying hard enough.
In my opinion, the Woodward loss was the perfect prelude to Secretariat showing the entire world what the term "SUPERHORSE" truly meant during his unparalleled Triple Crown run. The lingering doubt some insiders and casual fans had following this race raise the dramatic tension around the TC 100-fold. And we all know how that turned out!!
@RAV52 I'm afraid you have your "Woods" mixed up. Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial prior to the Derby. The Woodward was run in the fall, on September 29th.
Regardless of all that, thank you for the good comments.
You know if Secretariat had never been asked to run in a race that started with "W" he would have lost exactly one race, his maiden. His only other "loss" was in the Champagne when he was DQ'd. What is champagne, but a kind of wine and what letter does wine start with? Something to chew on :).
from the races I've seen Red lose as a 3 year old it's obvious the stride the power the extension is not there- illness,being tired from a campaign or just horse fickleness.-" He should never have lost a race" But all the great ones manage to--At 90% no horse beats Secretariat- His poor showings give us him at about 50% of his performance level-and he still competes! An alert and healthy Big Red was a lock to beat any second tier horse by 10-15+ lengths on any track at any distance
Jerkens had Prove Out in great form that Fall of 1973.
The following month Prove Out won the biggest championship race at the time, the 2 mile Jockey Club Gold Cup, in the fastest time ever (3:20) by a horse not named Kelso (3:19.4, 3:19.2 and 3:19.1a World Record on dirt that still stands to this day).
@h24811 Kelso set the World record for the JC Gold Cup and the American record for the D.C. International eleven days later. I wonder which one he was pointed for?
Like Steve Haskins stated. Secretariat was not even intended to race the Woodward & was totally unprepared for it. He was training for the upcoming Man 0' War race on turf with 3 workouts galloping out 1 to 2 miles. End of quote.
Wherever he was in top shape or not that 2:25 1/5 would still have been hard to beat. That 2.26.43 Big Red turned in was still a tremendous time on a muddy track. Maybe tha lack of training was the reason Turcotte said he was tired in that race.
Yes, absolutely agree with Mr. Haskin's assessment of Secretariat's reason for losing in the Woodward. After all, he was around the horse a lot, and knew very well of Mr. Laurin's special way of training him with strong workouts and finishing with very fast blowouts. I'll take the word of a reputable man with the credentials to back it up over hate-mongers who just find fault with anything anytime they can. I just wish people would accept reasons as reasons, and not excuses. It's very annoying.
Steve Haskins Senior Correspondent Editor Bloodhorse Magazine:
To continue our celebration of Secretariats 35th anniversary, I am going to relay the story (long again, sorry) of one of those horses, and perhaps it will explain why even Big Red couldnt beat him.
That horse is Prove Out, and the perfect storm that developed on Sept. 29, 1973 was made up of two elements that came together at the exact same time.
Prove Out saved all the ground on both turns while Secretariat raced 2 paths wider than Prove Out on the 1st turn, thus putting these 2 in a deat heat, figurewise, at the wire, assuming equal weights were carried.
Big Red had already had a long campaign that year and Prove Out ran the race of his lifetime in beating him. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Also remember the trainer was Allen Jerkins, well known as the giant killer and a master at prepping horses for a specific race.
I do have to add one more comment...Prove Out was "Joe Namath and the Jets" on this day. He was a flash in the pan, he only won 2 other races in his career...but again, hats off to him on this race.
@MelC54 His record was 39: 9-6-4! In the fall he won the Jockey Club Gold Cup. He had the 4th best time ever for th 2 mile JCGC. THE other 3 were run by Kelso
Give Prove Out all his due.....he ran a record time in this race, in fact only 1 4/5 seconds off Secretariat's Belmont record. Secretariat just didn't run a great race this day, and he was running against a 4 year old....just like he was in the Whitney with Onion. Hats off to Prove Out in this one.
Taking nothing away from Prove Out...a great race on a very sloppy track. Just after the quarter pole Sec runs in aline of mud while Prove Out is on a better surface. I agree with cf1970 that Sec looks tired. His normally perfect stride looks a bit rubbery...and I think the final stretch of mud zapped any remaining energy. He almost loooks like he's saying "Get me outta here".
seriously though this race reminded me alot of the Swaps Stakes of 1977 when JO Tobin beat Seattle Slew. Like Tobin, Proveout just ran a perfect race and probably didn't get the credit they desrved.
I mean if I'm not mistaken J.O. Tobin ran the fastest mile and a quarter ever by 1 3year old that day that still stands. i doubt anyone beats him that day much like Proveout this day
Those are fair opinions, and I have no qualms with them. I just feel that Secretariat wasn't at his best that day, simple as that. Prove Out ran a big race here, and I have much respect for his effort. 2:25 4/5 on dirt is a great accomplishment, and the fact that Secretariat was the horse he beat makes it even more impressive.
Prove Out was flawless, no doubt. Yet, on the backstretch, Secretariat looked...well, if he was a car, I'd have suggested a tune-up and an oil change. Just not running on all cylinders it seemed.
But again now, I would never toss Prove Out out of my back yard for munching the geraniums, don't get me wrong. :-)
Yeah, the big fella just didn't look himself; his normal oomph wasn't there. I give Prove Out a ton of credit, he ran arguably the best race of his career here. One of the best efforts in racing history, it has to be said.
Glad you enjoyed the video, and I thank you for the kind comments.
Prove Out ran a great race that day to beat Secretariat. But this was 2 weeks after Secretariat set the world record in the Marlboro Cup. Still a good race, but i dont he was at his best that day.
2:25 4/5 in heavy slop is an even greater accomplishment. No doubt, Secretariat was not at his best and if he was, no one knows what the outcome would have been. Perhaps Haskins was right when he said "Secretariat did not lose the Woodward. Prove Out won the Woodward, and I cant think of any horse who would have beaten him that day."
In the 1972 Hollywood Gold Cup, Quack, as a 3-year old, ran a world record 1:58:1 to beat older horses. Think that is still the 3-year old record. Not sure about world record. Quack was unbeatable that day.
Justwatched J.O. Tobin based on your comment. What a great race. Wire to wire. FYI...and thiscomes from my friend CF1970...Secretariat ran the Marlboro Cup in a then world record time for 1 1/8 miles at 1:45 and 2/5. Pulling up over the next furlong, he ran 1 1/4 miles in 1:57 4/5. An incredible feat.
Great race by Prove Out, but I think the reason Secretariat got beat was because of his previous race in the Marlboro. He just ran 1:45.2, and I think that race took a lot out of him as it did Cougar. Cougar ran a forgettable race here in the Woodward after flying at the finish in the Marlboro. The Marlboro was such a hard race, and then to wheel these horses right back again in a 1 1/2M race so quickly (2 or 3 weeks - not sure), and expect their best was a lot to ask of either champion.
@proveout Prove Out that Summer showed how a great trainer can mean EVERYTHING to a horse. In regards to J O Tobin in the Swaps- he didn't 'slay' Seattle Slew- Slew was finished after a mile as he never should have been in the race- Billy Turner didn't want to run him at all and was fired. 22 2/5 , 45 2/5 , 1:09 1/5 1:33 3/5 to the mile and Tobin missed the World Record by 2/5 seconds.
Thanks for posting. Haven't seen it in 35 years. Finally we have the '73 Wood, Whitney and Woodward on YouTube. No reason to hide them. Or to fret comments, IMO. Secretariat supporters have much more ammo than the detractors.
Simply a great effort by Prove Out, who ran superbly that fall. Too bad they didn't meet otherwise. In Picking Winners, Andy Beyer wrote Secretariat ran his standard race from a speed figure standpoint, but was simply beaten by an opponent who was superior on that day.
Glad you enjoyed it. This video and Secretariat's other losses are important to see, but IMHO I think Beyer's evaluation was off; Secretariat looked tired to me, much like Slew in the Swaps. Sec was just lumbering along with no major kick in the stretch.
Not to take anything away from Prove Out, but I still feel that had Secretariat been trained adequately and had his pipes opened properly, he would have been the winner, but admittely, not by a lot. Prove Out was a very fine horse indeed.
@cf1970 The last 1/4 mile was where the lack of training for this race showed itself. This was where the stamina, so evident in the Belmont Stakes, would have shown itself and Secretariat would have pulled away to win, probably by a length, maybe 2 lengths. It would have been close, like Sham at Churchill and Pimlico.
"Giant Killer" H. Allen Jerkens and Hobeau Farm strike again. One has to wonder what Big Red was thinking down the stretch: "Oh No! Not these orange silks in front of me again!" Thanks for another great vid, cf1970
Prove Out's time here is the second fastest in the history of Belmont Park at this distance, exceeded only by Secretariat himself. For example, Prove Out's time was better than Easy Goer's time in the 1989 Belmont Stakes, a time that Secretariat almost matched here. The loses to Onion and Angle Light were of flukish; Secretariat defeated both horses decisively. Secretariat i/m/o wins this one with his A game, but PO ran a hell of a race. Upsets happen (Man O War reference).
ihasch 3 months ago
I have a hard time believing that Prove Out could have beaten a 100% Sec.
WPWW14words 3 months ago
Even though Secretariat likely wasn't adequately prepared, Prove Out, at the top of his game, is arguably the best horse he ever faced. Prove Out would go on to crush Secretariat's great stablemate, Riva Ridge by 33 lengths in the Jockey Club Gold Cup after the two of them got locked in a suicidal speed duel in the 1st 6F of that 2 mile race. Riva Ridge was totally wasted after that, but Prove Out hung on to win in a time only 0.8 secs off Kelso's WR. He combined great speed and stamina.
sl7293 5 months ago
:::Attention::: bot1032 from ubotstudios com approves of cf1970's videos. That is all.
ubotstudios11 9 months ago
An additonal footnote to all of the well-informed comments. According to Nack, Sec was never more than 80%-90% after his illness. Couple that to the effort in the MC and complete lack of preparation for the WW and I am amazed that on a compromised surface Sec managed somewhere around 2 26 and 3/5th's. Somebody tell me of another horse producing that performance under the same set of facts/circumstances.
bbmtge 11 months ago
@bbmtge I think Damascus's victory in the 2 mile JCGC only 1 sec off Kelso's WR following a 3 year old campaign where he ran 2 races per month for each of the 7 previous months prior to the JCGC ranks right up there with this one.The JCGC was the 15th of 16 races D ran at age 3. In that yr he won races at virtually every distance from 6F to 2 miles & defeated 2 of the all time greats. He never ducked any horse or any distance at age 3, ran all the time whether well or ill, & still won 12 of 16.
sl7293 9 months ago
Basically it was insanity to run Secretariat in this race. Imagine what a shock it was to the horse after being worked out on grass to step on a muddy track and run a race he wasn't training to run. After stopping the clip as Prove Out crosses the finish line it looks like he won by about 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 lengths...that's about 1 second. I think "overambition" pretty much sums up this race. But Lauren wasn't always real smart. He even once said Ruffian may be better than Secretariat. LOL Get real!
MelC54 11 months ago
@MelC54 I don't think this was considered a muddy track! It looked more like a sloppy track whicch is close to being a fast track.
cf1934 11 months ago
This should really be remembered as one of Secretariat's best efforts. Two weeks after setting the world record at 1-1/8, he came second to Prove Out who won running the second fastest 1-1/2 ever at Belmont. The loss to Onion was due to illness, but this one came because of a great run (and maybe some over-ambition). H. Allen Jerkens had Prove Out (a 4yr. old) flying that year. As the great musician Artie Shaw said, if you never make a mistake, your not trying hard enough.
711ATOM 1 year ago
When it all comes down to it, my horse's grandsire beat Secretariat (Unwelcome Guest out of Dinner Guest by Prove Out).
jzraven 1 year ago
In my opinion, the Woodward loss was the perfect prelude to Secretariat showing the entire world what the term "SUPERHORSE" truly meant during his unparalleled Triple Crown run. The lingering doubt some insiders and casual fans had following this race raise the dramatic tension around the TC 100-fold. And we all know how that turned out!!
RAV52 1 year ago
@RAV52 I'm afraid you have your "Woods" mixed up. Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial prior to the Derby. The Woodward was run in the fall, on September 29th.
Regardless of all that, thank you for the good comments.
cf1970 1 year ago
@cf1970 Whoops! My bad, cf1970... I get so pumped watching Sec run, even in the losses, that I sometimes get mixed up...LOL
RAV52 1 year ago
You know if Secretariat had never been asked to run in a race that started with "W" he would have lost exactly one race, his maiden. His only other "loss" was in the Champagne when he was DQ'd. What is champagne, but a kind of wine and what letter does wine start with? Something to chew on :).
pocobull 1 year ago
from the races I've seen Red lose as a 3 year old it's obvious the stride the power the extension is not there- illness,being tired from a campaign or just horse fickleness.-" He should never have lost a race" But all the great ones manage to--At 90% no horse beats Secretariat- His poor showings give us him at about 50% of his performance level-and he still competes! An alert and healthy Big Red was a lock to beat any second tier horse by 10-15+ lengths on any track at any distance
lpvcrcd 1 year ago
Jerkens had Prove Out in great form that Fall of 1973.
The following month Prove Out won the biggest championship race at the time, the 2 mile Jockey Club Gold Cup, in the fastest time ever (3:20) by a horse not named Kelso (3:19.4, 3:19.2 and 3:19.1a World Record on dirt that still stands to this day).
h24811 1 year ago
@h24811 Kelso set the World record for the JC Gold Cup and the American record for the D.C. International eleven days later. I wonder which one he was pointed for?
cf1934 1 year ago
Like Steve Haskins stated. Secretariat was not even intended to race the Woodward & was totally unprepared for it. He was training for the upcoming Man 0' War race on turf with 3 workouts galloping out 1 to 2 miles. End of quote.
Wherever he was in top shape or not that 2:25 1/5 would still have been hard to beat. That 2.26.43 Big Red turned in was still a tremendous time on a muddy track. Maybe tha lack of training was the reason Turcotte said he was tired in that race.
rscarbro100 2 years ago
Yes, absolutely agree with Mr. Haskin's assessment of Secretariat's reason for losing in the Woodward. After all, he was around the horse a lot, and knew very well of Mr. Laurin's special way of training him with strong workouts and finishing with very fast blowouts. I'll take the word of a reputable man with the credentials to back it up over hate-mongers who just find fault with anything anytime they can. I just wish people would accept reasons as reasons, and not excuses. It's very annoying.
cf1970 2 years ago
Steve Haskins Senior Correspondent Editor Bloodhorse Magazine:
To continue our celebration of Secretariats 35th anniversary, I am going to relay the story (long again, sorry) of one of those horses, and perhaps it will explain why even Big Red couldnt beat him.
That horse is Prove Out, and the perfect storm that developed on Sept. 29, 1973 was made up of two elements that came together at the exact same time.
rscarbro100 2 years ago
Turcotte quoted:
When he was defeated in the Woodward by Prove Out he just plain got
tired. He was only ready to run a mile and one eight at best. After his
Marlboro Cup victory his next race was to be the Man o War and all we
did with him was slow gallops around the turf course as an introduction
to the grass with only one slow half
mile work in a span of three weeks between the two races.
rscarbro100 2 years ago
Prove Out saved all the ground on both turns while Secretariat raced 2 paths wider than Prove Out on the 1st turn, thus putting these 2 in a deat heat, figurewise, at the wire, assuming equal weights were carried.
AllStarBugler 2 years ago
To answer your question, the 3 yr old Secretariat carried 119 lbs.while Prove Out carried 126 lbs. which was his handicap for being a 4 yr old.
sl7293 2 years ago
Big Red had already had a long campaign that year and Prove Out ran the race of his lifetime in beating him. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Also remember the trainer was Allen Jerkins, well known as the giant killer and a master at prepping horses for a specific race.
joefederico 2 years ago
I do have to add one more comment...Prove Out was "Joe Namath and the Jets" on this day. He was a flash in the pan, he only won 2 other races in his career...but again, hats off to him on this race.
MelC54 2 years ago
@MelC54 His record was 39: 9-6-4! In the fall he won the Jockey Club Gold Cup. He had the 4th best time ever for th 2 mile JCGC. THE other 3 were run by Kelso
cf1934 11 months ago
Give Prove Out all his due.....he ran a record time in this race, in fact only 1 4/5 seconds off Secretariat's Belmont record. Secretariat just didn't run a great race this day, and he was running against a 4 year old....just like he was in the Whitney with Onion. Hats off to Prove Out in this one.
MelC54 2 years ago
Taking nothing away from Prove Out...a great race on a very sloppy track. Just after the quarter pole Sec runs in aline of mud while Prove Out is on a better surface. I agree with cf1970 that Sec looks tired. His normally perfect stride looks a bit rubbery...and I think the final stretch of mud zapped any remaining energy. He almost loooks like he's saying "Get me outta here".
bbmtge 3 years ago
Something about that Proveout horse I like.
seriously though this race reminded me alot of the Swaps Stakes of 1977 when JO Tobin beat Seattle Slew. Like Tobin, Proveout just ran a perfect race and probably didn't get the credit they desrved.
I mean if I'm not mistaken J.O. Tobin ran the fastest mile and a quarter ever by 1 3year old that day that still stands. i doubt anyone beats him that day much like Proveout this day
proveout 3 years ago
Those are fair opinions, and I have no qualms with them. I just feel that Secretariat wasn't at his best that day, simple as that. Prove Out ran a big race here, and I have much respect for his effort. 2:25 4/5 on dirt is a great accomplishment, and the fact that Secretariat was the horse he beat makes it even more impressive.
Take care.
cf1970 3 years ago
I was thinking that myself, cf1970.
Prove Out was flawless, no doubt. Yet, on the backstretch, Secretariat looked...well, if he was a car, I'd have suggested a tune-up and an oil change. Just not running on all cylinders it seemed.
But again now, I would never toss Prove Out out of my back yard for munching the geraniums, don't get me wrong. :-)
Thank you for posting this. Great fun!
nameofthepen 3 years ago
Yeah, the big fella just didn't look himself; his normal oomph wasn't there. I give Prove Out a ton of credit, he ran arguably the best race of his career here. One of the best efforts in racing history, it has to be said.
Glad you enjoyed the video, and I thank you for the kind comments.
cf1970 3 years ago
Prove Out ran a great race that day to beat Secretariat. But this was 2 weeks after Secretariat set the world record in the Marlboro Cup. Still a good race, but i dont he was at his best that day.
JSanity01 3 years ago
@JSanity01 Kelso set the world record for 2miles on the dirt and came back 11 days later to set the american track record on grass.
cf1934 11 months ago
2:25 4/5 in heavy slop is an even greater accomplishment. No doubt, Secretariat was not at his best and if he was, no one knows what the outcome would have been. Perhaps Haskins was right when he said "Secretariat did not lose the Woodward. Prove Out won the Woodward, and I cant think of any horse who would have beaten him that day."
sl7293 1 year ago
In the 1972 Hollywood Gold Cup, Quack, as a 3-year old, ran a world record 1:58:1 to beat older horses. Think that is still the 3-year old record. Not sure about world record. Quack was unbeatable that day.
nova4ess 3 years ago
Aren't the tracks in California a lot faster?
cf1934 2 years ago
Justwatched J.O. Tobin based on your comment. What a great race. Wire to wire. FYI...and thiscomes from my friend CF1970...Secretariat ran the Marlboro Cup in a then world record time for 1 1/8 miles at 1:45 and 2/5. Pulling up over the next furlong, he ran 1 1/4 miles in 1:57 4/5. An incredible feat.
bbmtge 3 years ago
Great race by Prove Out, but I think the reason Secretariat got beat was because of his previous race in the Marlboro. He just ran 1:45.2, and I think that race took a lot out of him as it did Cougar. Cougar ran a forgettable race here in the Woodward after flying at the finish in the Marlboro. The Marlboro was such a hard race, and then to wheel these horses right back again in a 1 1/2M race so quickly (2 or 3 weeks - not sure), and expect their best was a lot to ask of either champion.
nova4ess 3 years ago
@proveout Prove Out that Summer showed how a great trainer can mean EVERYTHING to a horse. In regards to J O Tobin in the Swaps- he didn't 'slay' Seattle Slew- Slew was finished after a mile as he never should have been in the race- Billy Turner didn't want to run him at all and was fired. 22 2/5 , 45 2/5 , 1:09 1/5 1:33 3/5 to the mile and Tobin missed the World Record by 2/5 seconds.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
Thanks for posting. Haven't seen it in 35 years. Finally we have the '73 Wood, Whitney and Woodward on YouTube. No reason to hide them. Or to fret comments, IMO. Secretariat supporters have much more ammo than the detractors.
Simply a great effort by Prove Out, who ran superbly that fall. Too bad they didn't meet otherwise. In Picking Winners, Andy Beyer wrote Secretariat ran his standard race from a speed figure standpoint, but was simply beaten by an opponent who was superior on that day.
AwsiDooger 3 years ago
Glad you enjoyed it. This video and Secretariat's other losses are important to see, but IMHO I think Beyer's evaluation was off; Secretariat looked tired to me, much like Slew in the Swaps. Sec was just lumbering along with no major kick in the stretch.
Not to take anything away from Prove Out, but I still feel that had Secretariat been trained adequately and had his pipes opened properly, he would have been the winner, but admittely, not by a lot. Prove Out was a very fine horse indeed.
cf1970 3 years ago
@cf1970 The last 1/4 mile was where the lack of training for this race showed itself. This was where the stamina, so evident in the Belmont Stakes, would have shown itself and Secretariat would have pulled away to win, probably by a length, maybe 2 lengths. It would have been close, like Sham at Churchill and Pimlico.
MelC54 8 months ago
"Giant Killer" H. Allen Jerkens and Hobeau Farm strike again. One has to wonder what Big Red was thinking down the stretch: "Oh No! Not these orange silks in front of me again!" Thanks for another great vid, cf1970
terjer01 3 years ago
Lol, funny comment. You're very welcome.
cf1970 3 years ago
To this day, still the second fastest running of a mile and a half on dirt in history. Great performance by Prove Out.
gfn02 3 years ago
Agreed. Prove Out ran a fine race indeed.
Take care, my friend.
cf1970 3 years ago
nice race...
i love secretariat! to me he's an amazing untouchable horse in his own right.
truebluegrit 3 years ago