I have met people who say things like G-d wanted to open up his grace to all man kind through JC. But our knowledge of the Torah tells us that G-d has already "opened up his grace" to man kind by giving seven laws, incumbent upon all man kind after the flood.
Prohibition of 1)Idolatry2)Murder3)Theft4)Sexual immorality5)Blasphemy6)eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive7)Establishment of courts of law.
Worship of JC goes against law number 1). Why not just pray to G-d???
@RoyBolinggoing so it isn't God changing his mind saying oops I need new rules it's him showing an example saying try to reach me on your own power and since we cannot he sent his son to give us a gift we don't deserve. Pure grace.
@RoyBolinggoing the law of Moses was God saying, here, try to be perfect, if you can follow this law then you are as righteous and pure as I am. But obviously none of us can fully follow the law which is why we need Jesus, the only man to fulfill the law sacrificed so we aren't bound by it
What I don't understand is why Christians think that G-d (who is above change and time) would give the Tora to the Jews and then change his mind and issue a new version of the bible - by these standards who's to say that he did not change his mind again and give the Koran to the Islamics...
@RoyBolinggoing I don't think He changed His mind - the OT stands even today - but He did open up His grace to all through Christ - which was the plan all along. The reason I don't think the Quran was given by God is because it is a step backwards from the Way of Jesus... I don't consider the NT to be a 'change of mind'.
@christoferL But G-d has already opened up his heart to all man kind - and it is possible to find favour on G-d's eyes by following the 7 Noahide laws given after the flood. Meaning that all of man kind have 7 laws but that the Jews have 613 meaning that they have a more complicated job and role in the world - not that they are better, as such. I could accept what you say - if the Torah had not already provided for everything that the New Testament claims to stand for - and much more...
@RoyBolinggoing But we can't keep the whole Law. Everyone slips up somewhere. "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10. Jesus came to save us because nobody can keep that whole law. He showed us how to keep the spirit of it, the truth of it. He didnt stone the adulterous woman. The spirit of the Law: ""So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 7:12
@Roy5595@Roy5595 And G-d didn't change his mind - the Law is G-d's perfect standard of course. But, being perfect and us not, we couldn't stand up to that standard. The NT is in step with the OT.
@RoyBolinggoing Furthermore, in the NT we see the heart G-d has for his people. Through the NT, we can have a closer, more personal relationship with G-d. That is what I find most beautiful about it.
Titus1:10 (HCSB) For there are also many rebellious people, idle talkers and deceivers, especially those from Judaism.
I've no issue with keeping a strong Jewish identity, I still look like a frumnik, but to propose a form of Judaism & incorporate keruv for non Jews is completely heretical according to Scripture! I attend a Sunday church, (my pastor and family were church planters in my Jewish community, he's Jewish, they had to go back to Texas, church was Shabbos), but keep a strong identity.
Galatians 3 says that he that hangs from the tree is cursed That means you were cursed for breaking the law.When jesus died he was perfect and took the curse therefore if you commit adultry you are no longer hanged or stoned jesus paid that price That does not mean that you can break the law. Being saved through grace we are obedient to the law because we love our God with all our heart soul and strength which is a diret quote of deut 6 v4 Jesus was speaking of shema
between the two events. If there is sexual contract between the two events it is not a sin because the contract is already signed. Wedlock means outside of a binding contract. To have sex between the engagement and the wedding is a sin. Sex between a betrothal and a wedding is not a sin because the contract is binding from the time it is signed not from the time it is read Because it is a private contract it was not mandatory for a rabbi or judge to be presant.
If someone with a western mind set were to read the law of Moses, They , would understand that as long as you were engaged that sex is ok. We know this to be wrong.The problem is a misunderstanding of the terms.A Jewish wedding happens in two stages.The Kiddushin is where the proposal is made and the contract is signed.Then the groom goes and builds a house for his bride.The Nissuin is when he comes to get her the contract is then read publicly.There might be a three year gap.
Shalom means peace but this is not just peace as we know it it is the peace that passes all understanding. In otherwords it will blow your mind. Divorce to Moses meant something a little different then what we understand today. Engagement is the closest word we can come to the word betrothal. but it dont mean the same thing exactly.You have to look at culture that it was written in to fully understand the meaning.
You have to understand freind that whenever you study the bible It means what the reader would have understood at the time it was written. when you translate from one language sometimes there is not a word that brings an exact meaning. For example Modeh is a word that means thankful and it means surrender in hebrew.Translated it is a thanful surrender.This is not a surrender where you are defeated. It is a surrender of understanding. Like when you got saved
The Galatians were a group of people that believed that you were saved by circumcisionGalatians 3 makes it absolutly clear that we are saved by our faith in Yeshua 2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
If Jesus commands us to observe and do all that is bid us to observe If you understood jewish law devorce was never intended to be permanant. their devorce is more like separation. Jesus did not change the law that was given us to think that he meant a different law is a fallacy God gave us the law on the mountain. That is is the only law he is going to hold us to he is never changing. To insinuate anything different would mean that the bible was not completly true.
15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
@msskippy7781 and yet - in verse 18 Jesus said - 18“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
What Law was He speaking of? The Law of Moses that allows divorce? I don't think so. I believe He taught the Royal Law of God (James 2:8)... which has much in common with the Law of Moses... but it also differs in many ways...
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination
If you believe that Jesus changed the law or nullified it in some way you are mistaken because in Matthew chapter 23 JESUS commanded us to oberve the Law
You can choose not to follow the law but as for me I absolutly keep the law out of obedience to matthew chapter 23
6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
You cannot be a teacher of the law if you do not understand it. We are given grace.if we sin but we keep the law out of obedience to our faith., If you love me keep my commandments
@msskippy7781 Keep reading "8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers" - Is the Law for the Saints of Christ? Really? Don't you find it interesting that every single scripture you post can be refuted by reading the verses immediately following them? (cont)
if youread Acts 15 you see in verse 21 that He in reasoning with the council mentions that They teach Moses,Law in the synogogue every sabbath. Which means that it was intended for the new believers to learn the law. Then If you read chapter 16 He taking Timmothy with him found it nescessary to circumsize him before going out to deliver the decree. If the law had been done away with there would have been not reason to circumcise him. Ipeter 23-25 Maatches Is 40 v 8 It is the same doctrine.
@msskippy7781 Acts 15:21 "21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." It STILL is! Timothy was circumcised due to the Jews in the area - not because of the Law (vs. 3) 1 Peter 1:23-25 QUOTES Is.40:6-8 - but it is not an endorsement of the Jewish Law. Its interesting how you ignore so much to make a point that can be so easily refuted. I don't want to argue, but your view seems to ignore the NT
@christoferL I am not ignoring the New testament at all. Jesus did not ignore the old testament . He assured us in Matt 5 17 -20 that he did not change the law. the apostles followed the law. and Jesus commanded us to observe the law because that was what was taught out of Moses'seat If you want to see what Moses' seat looks like goole Moses's seat on google images. Jews understand that only the law of Moses was taught from that seat. That is where Torah was read. Jesus followed Torah perfect.
@christoferL you are missing the part where it says and this is the word which has been preached to you it is an endorsement of the law If you want another one But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: When he was defending himself he had not offended any law of Ceasar or of the Jews Acts 25 v8.
Acts 26 v. 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
The Apostle Paul testifies here that he has said ONLY what the prophets and the Law of Moses said would come.Peter and Paul have verified that The Law of Moses and the words of the prophets are the doctrine. Jeremiah 8 v8 says the pen of the scribe is vain..We are only supposed to accept the law
One law one costom for us of the assembly and the stranger amongst us NUM 15 v15&16 One faith one baptism Eph 4 v5 One faith one baptism. Jesus after promising that the law would not change Matt 5 v17-20 commanded us to observe and do all that is bid us to observe out of MOSES' SEAT. That is why I am a messianic Jew instead of a Christian. There is not supposed to be a difference between the two.
"That is why I am a messianic Jew instead of a Christian. There is not supposed to be a difference between the two." The Apostles apparently disagreed with your conclusion as testified by Acts 15.
(continued) The early church followed Yeshua in all He observed. He did not break any of the 613 commandments that GOD gave to Moses. The early Yeshuaites followed Torah and lived under grace. They lived responsibly in their behavior of the Teachings, attended Temple (until it was destroyed), and received Salvation -Yeshua. Greasy grace stuff can make you sick.
@heartheprophets "The early church followed Yeshua in all He observed." Acts 10 and 11 seems to counter that concept. " attended Temple (until it was destroyed)" How did believers to far from Jerusalem attend 'temple'?
(continued) they would understand truth themselves and not worry about being ex-communicated from the denomination they adhere to. Yup, getting bounced for telling the truth is acceptable . . .
Grafted in amongst them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree . . . the root is Torah, and Abraham, Israel. We should hold fast to those things given from the beginning as Yeshua had. He did not destroy the Law, but fulfilled it by being perfect in all the commandments
According to Romans 11, we are grafted-in to the Olive tree. The Olive tree is not grafted in to Christianity which is mostly Greekianity.The Yeshuites in the beginning were being converted at synagogues. If one would read the Bible with an open mind instead of the preconceived notions they receive from their 'traditional' anti-semitic Nicene church fathers who were heretical in beliefs concerning 'the way,' and stop parroting these 'traditions' from their biased pastors and teachers . . .
@blatkins722 Seeing that God created the world through Jesus Christ as Scripture says , I would say the Buddhists either made it up themselves or got it from him, now if you believe that the Word of God is a lie ,,,keep on keeping on,,,,I know better.
The law is eternal, you say you can quote verses all day long... then bring up the verses that will contradict your out of context understanding... and then repent.
If you are not keeping the entire law your not loving correctly but only with mans definitions and understandings.
Type "Letter of Peter to James" in google and search, click the first link. And also actually read all the bible before you make all of these blasphemous and ignorant videos, your fruit is not good.
@deathknight228 your condescending approach merely renders your inaccurate message mute. "And also actually read all the bible before you make all of these blasphemous and ignorant videos, your fruit is not good." As a reader of the Bible making a statement in good faith - all I can say to you is I pray your hardened heart doesn't remain that way for the rest of your life.
God children are known by there deeds no matter what (title) they go by. But as I said beleiving in the Messiah is a very Jewish thing to do becuase the prophets do speak of Yeshuah not another that is to come. The Romans changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday and wanted to seperate Yeshuahs followers from Judiasm and Israel remember that, You dont have to call it messianic, Its pure judiams to me to believe in Yeshuah or Jesus what ever you wanna call him
@theguywhohadabone123 wanted to seperate Yeshuahs followers from Judiasm and Israel remember that, "
Those followers of Jesus didn't believe him to be a god and are not connected with todays Messianic Judaism which is a syncretic religious movement that arose in the 1960s. and is based on evangelical Christian theology .
I dont think Jesus (Yeshuah) came to start another religion but to fullfill judiasm, a gentile is one born with out law but however no one is born a Jew it is a choice you must make, All are Adams blood and are under the curse so Yeshuah said you must be born again wether you were born under the law or not. We are not children of Abraham, we are children of God. We need no Rabbi to go through we can talk to God ourselfs threw Yeshuah Gods true Rabbi
@theguywhohadabone123 All are Adams blood and are under the curse so Yeshuah said you must be born again wether "
Christians, specifically Paul, invented the idea of a curse from birth - original sin.. The Jewish bible doesn't say anything about it. Jesus taught completely within Judaism the belief that if you live an evil life, at death, you will remain dead and not be born again into eternal life.
So the context is not about abrogating the law for Gentiles but "how are we saved" and what do we place on "New Converts" before they are taught and growing in the Lord.
In verse 21 we learn it is because the rest of the law will come to them by being taught in Church every Sabbath through the preaching of the Word and the law being read in the churches every Sabbath day which was set up by Moses of old time. Through Sanctification and being under the preached Word they will be taught the rest of the Law. Not for Justification but for Sanctification.
What is the meaning of verse 19? Who are not to be troubled? We are not to trouble them who are "turning" to God. The word turning here in Greek means converting or in other words a Proselyte. We are not to trouble those who are turning to God. Don't tell them they have to be circumcised or do any law in order to be saved. We gave you no such command to do that. This is about New Converts and we are not to teach them that salvation is by works but by Faith. What about after they are converted?
The law has never saved anyone, it can't.. But the law is our sanctification. So what was the Yoke in v. 10? It can not be the law of God since Psalm 119:45 says "And I will walk at liberty for I seek thy precepts: The answer lies in the context. The Pharisees were teaching Salvation through works. We are not to place such a burden upon their necks that God did not even require since it is impossible with fallen man. But this does not mean we do not strive to be holy out of love to God.
Acts 15 was not about Messianic Judaism, It was about Ebionite Judaism... There is a difference.. The Ebionites were Pharisee Christians who believed you must keep the law for salvation and keep the oral law of the elders. So the context in acts 15 is whether to keep the law for salvation or not and what to place on new turning believers on the out set when they make a profession and join the Ekklesia. Why? Because the rest of the law will be taught to them every week (v. 21). cont in next msg
@thjodmar "Acts 15 was not about Messianic Judaism, It was about Ebionite Judaism..." My translations don't say either or - just Jewish believers... segmenting them into particular sects seems to go beyond the scope of the writing. What are you basing this interpretation on anyways? Acts 15 was saying Gentiles didn't have to become Jews... period... in order to follow Jesus. BTW - the 'rest' of the law - is still read today in the fullness of the Bible.
@christoferL The context of this entire dispute is Justification and whether we are saved by keeping the law or saved by faith alone. Notice how in verse 1 that some Pharisee's which we learn in Verse 5 were believers in the Lord Jesus Christ but they taught that one can only be saved first by keeping the law of God after the manner of moses "Except ye be circumcised". cont...
@thjodmar "The context of this entire dispute is Justification and whether we are saved by keeping the law or saved by faith alone." It was about some Jews telling Gentiles they couldn't be saved without being circumcised and following the Law of Moses according to my reading... and the Apostles responded with a unified - nope...
@christoferL So the issues is not about Sanctification.. We are not to place the law before the blood of Christ or in other words say that people can not be saved apart from the law. The Ebionites were and ARE the ones who believe you must keep the law to be saved... They were the ones who in Acts 15 were saying that in order to be saved you must keep the law of Circumcision..
@thjodmar So you are basing your belief that they were Ebonite on unrelated research of the time period... yet there is nothing in the passage that says so? Forgive me - but that is reading INTO. It would be one thing to say they were probably ebonite, but the way you state it as fact makes me believe I shouldn't take what you're saying as fact. Quite simply the passage says you don't have to be Jew to be saved... why make it more complicated than that?
@christoferL The law must stand.. It is our rule of holiness, our sanctification. the way you are interpreting Acts 15 does massive destruction to the rest of scripture and creates all kinds of contradictions... Christ himself said I did not come to destroy or abrogate the law and not til heaven and earth pass away will one jot or one tittle be passed away and the man who teaches the least of these commandments will be consider least in the kingdom of God. The commission of the Messiah ....
@thjodmar He did abolish - He fulfilled and as His followers we are supposed to do that as well. I believe a believer in the Spirit who is ignorant to the Law is more in line with Christ than a believer who follows the Law and doesn't understand the work of the Holy Spirit. You don't need a law to tell you right form wrong when you have the Holy Spirit leading you. I love the WHOLE Bible, but I believe those trying to follow Laws have missed the whole point.
@christoferL He specifically said "I did NOT come to destroy or abolish the Torah and the Prophets" The Greek and even Aramaic word in Matthew 5 that is translated as "fulfilled" in Greek and Aramaic is Confirmed. He came to Confirmed the law which is what Isaiah told us He would do.. The Spirit ONLY leads us through his Written word which are the Words of the Spirit. The Spirit leads us knowing right and wrong through the written Word which is the only revealed will of God. I believe...
@thjodmar "He specifically said "I did NOT come to destroy or abolish the Torah and the Prophets"" and it exists in billions of Bibles - even today... "The Greek and even Aramaic word in Matthew 5 that is translated as "fulfilled" in Greek and Aramaic is Confirmed. " weird - not once does Strong's use 'confirm' in its definition (G4137-plēroō) and btw - the Spirit leads with or without the Word... I've seen Him in action with people who have never read the Bible who love the Lord...
@christoferL Strongs is pretty weak.. I prefer, arndt gingrich Greek-English lexicon, Liddell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon, and the Aramaic Lexicon... And sorry, I am not Charismatic....
@christoferL people who do not understand the continuation of the law for the rule of life and are antinomian do not understand the gospel and I must question their sincerity. 1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." and 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
@thjodmar amen - but I see HIS commandments as those He gave specifically to the Apostles while on earth... I believe this and can tell you He hasn't led me astray in this. The 'good news' wasn't the same ole news... as it says in Hebrews, the old passed away (testified by the temple falling) and the new is lost those who harden their hearts and refuse to believe it... I could be wrong and incredibly messed up... but I do not think so - and believe me - I want to know if I am... GBU
@christoferL If Christ gave a new commandment, then He broke the law, Deuteronomy 12:32. If Christ broke the law then He just illegitimated his Messiahship since the Messiah who had to keep the law perfectly to be sacrifice for US as the perfect sacrifice without blemished then He can not be the Messiah. So then we must look for another... But I do not believe this to be the case.. continue in next...
@christoferL a great quote from Ignatius from the Early Church, Ignatius Epistle to Philadelphia, c8.introduces a believer saying – which Ignatius heartily assents to as well, “What I do not find in Moses and the Prophets, I'll not believe in the gospel.” Ignatius continues “But there is no danger of this, no hazard of being put to such a trail; for certainly the New Testament saith none other than Moses and the Prophets did say and that should come to pass.”
@christoferL in Isaiah said He would come to magnify the law and make it honorable. Not abrogated it or destroy it and make it null and void for believers. Peter warns at the end of 2 Peter about Pauls writings, Paul is a man of God and full of wisdom, But be careful, Paul is HARD to understand. Some have taken his writings to mean they abrogate the law but be warned and be careful not to run toward the Torahless.
@thjodmar "Paul is HARD to understand" I don't have a problem with Paul at all... and I have my WHOLE Bible in hand - but I do not believe I am bound to Jewish law at all... only the 'spirit' of the law... which the Holy Spirit makes abundantly clear.
@christoferL Another problem with your interpretation of Acts 15 is that you are saying that Gentiles only need to do these 4 things.. But many other moral laws are not listed here. What about theft? What about lying? What about Blasphemy? So is it okay for me to steal or to lie? As a Gentile am I free to Blaspheme God's name?
@thjodmar I think you're missing what I am saying... without the Law I do not steal, lie, blaspheme, etc - but I do not do these things because the Holy Spirit leads me not to do them... see what I am saying? Gentiles don't have a license to sin - but they (we) are not under the harsh school master that is the LAW - as the book of Hebrews put it...When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
@christoferL The Old Covenant was only the Mosaic Covenant which consisted of the Temple, Aaronic Priesthood, Sacrifices, and Rituals of the Temple. We who are in the Covenant of Grace are in the Renewed Covenant of Abraham (See Gal. 3, Eph 2, Romans 2, etc) The Mosaic Covenant was a republication of the Covenant of Works and an administration of the Covenant of Grace. The Types and shadows of the Temple, Priesthood, Sacrifices, and Rituals were shadows of Christ.
@christoferL The Mosaic Covenant is obsolete because we do not need those shadows of Christ now that He is our High Priest, our Sacrifice, in the heavenly Temple. That does not do away with the rest of the law which was written on the Heart of Adam, confirmed in Abraham, renewed in the heart with Christ and will stand as a rule of life until heaven and earth passes away. Anyway, WE are in the Renewed Covenant of Abraham, the Covenant of Grace, saved by Grace, Freedom from the bondage of Sin, so.
@christoferL So the question then before us is, are the Gentiles free from the entire law except these four items which then would greatly limit what is morally wrong and what is morally right or the subject is not about abrogating but about justification and what is required on “new believers”up front.
@thjodmar No one is under the Law anymore - it is the old and (soon to pass) passed replaced by the NEW... the problem is many cannot accept just how open and easy His yoke actually is. IMHO
Wait, are you a practicing Christian? I’m confused. I just left a comment on your “Rod Parsley’s Seed?” video praising you for being a perceptive young man. I guess I was wrong. I’m disappointed, I thought you were cool and well educated. Now I’m sad.
@Zy9dot5 "Wait, are you a practicing Christian?" I am. " I’m confused." about? "I thought you were cool and well educated. " sorry to have let you down? "But that's my problem, not yours. Peace anyway." maybe - but if you see a glaring deficiency do let me know. Character isn't always built in silence.
You're an uneducated moron who cursed me at the end of this video with the the latin word bless , a dirivation of the arabic word ebliss , meaning satan.
since you have cursed me with your pagan lips , I will bow before Yahuvah so that you will see who the true God is.
@azkeyz "Your grace" my grace doesn't matter - its His grace - whether you call Him Yahshua or Jesus or Joshua or the Son of God - He knows who He is better than we do. We know Him by His VOICE... not His name...
@azkeyz "I'm a melchizedek myself , that means jew and gentile in one body." nothing like creating your own definitions (unless you can prove that in scripture). BTW - stop stressing over the languages... its a waste of time. God is above the tongues of men, don't you get that?
FREE FROM WHAT???? Grace is not opposite of TORAH - what are you talking about?! We are free from paganism and from Judaism (which was nothing common with the real Law and TORAH). But now we can not live as pagans with all our heritage! You have not clue what is TORAH is ....
I think you are not understanding what a messianic Jew is. It is not synonymous to judaizer. I gew up around a sect that could easily be guilty of judaizing (that is, attributing a salvific meaning to Jewish customs.) I found amongst messianic believers a greater celebration of Christ's redemptive sacrifice and the gospel. They don't stop being a Jews because they accept Jesus. As I understand it, the bible responds to the matter of customs that derive from our spiritual heritage in Judaism...
@wannabefitness The Gentiles were never Jew and were not forced to become Jew in order to follow Christ - that is why, not being born a Jew, I am not a Messianic - but for the record - I love and appreciate Messianics... only getting upset when they try to tell me I am not following Yeshua because I do not follow Jewish ways. That defeats the whole purpose of the New Covenant in my humble opinion.
@christoferL I would agree they want to take away Grace and replace it with works. My son who is not Jewish follows this sect and feels that obedience in these laws are necessary but cannot support his views with scripture. I feel he just does not know how to apply scripture by rightly dividing the word. Maybe someone can articulate why he keeps using James 2:18 as a reason to use the Jewish Customs and laws. And why he HATES Christians..just wanted to see why the hate?
The fact of the matter is that the word Christ did not exist in the days of Yeshua or the disciples. However, the word Messiah did. That is why in Acts 11:26 the early church WAS named. "... it was in Antioch that the talmidim for the first time were called "Messianic." In most translations, this is worded as Christians, but that term was actually used erroniously, as the original term was Chrestus (in the Greek). Yeshua himself is the Messiah. This is why I am a Messianic believer.....
@thistlesw The word christ indeed did exist. Christ is the translation of messiah into greek, who made up most of the church at the time, so whenever they called jesus the messiah, they used the word christos ie.. christ
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy Never said throw the Law away. I read it all the time - its IN the Bible. What I am saying is the New Covenant doesn't require written laws to govern the followers of Christ because we are guided by the Holy Spirit Himself. The Scriptures are a blessing beyond measure, but man still longs to cling to the Law because He hasn't believed what JESHUA promised.
I disagree with you bro because we as believers in Christ should also follow the law presented in the Old Testament. If ALL the law is not to be followed then that means that the ten commandments aren't meant to be followed.
@studiousx3 "we as believers in Christ should also follow the law presented in the Old Testament." The 10 commandments are woven into the teachings of Jesus - as is the Spirit of the Law... I believe the early Christian communities demonstrated how we should be...
HEB.8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people...Exactly what "laws" is this scripture talking about? Certainly Yahweh didn't write all new ones to put on men's hearts who follow Yeshua...It is obvious that love is the basis of our faith...but we still walk in the light of his Torah..
@mcreasman did you keep reading? Hebrews 8:13 When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
the last verse of the chapter... in case u missed it.
@christoferL the only difference in the covenants is that the atonement is made in His blood...but, that doesn't mean we have the right to be disobedient to the commandments that the Father told us to obey...from the first ten, in exodus, He shouted down to the Israelites... to the last ones he gives in deuteronomy.....In faith of Messiah believing, we use the spirit of God to obey the commandments walking the "narrow" path that He specified...not walking our own wide roads to destruction..
@christoferL with 2500 denominatons all following the "Spirit", divorce rates are the same in the church as they are out of it, the youth of america cant stand faith and what it means to follow a saviour...I don't see where you find comfort in saying that you dont need a "map" to go by in your walk, even with the spirit...jacob was given a walk that was different from everybody else after his encounter with the angel of God...then his name was turned to Israel-"to rule with God".. it's symbolic
@mcreasman remember - Jesus said the path is narrow... obviously the wide path that Christianity has become has a lot of things that are not of Him. Many deceiving spirits exist... and men like their ears tickled... but that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is void. U act as if I don't read the Bible - meaning Old and New Testaments (sometimes the Apocrypha)... as if living by the Spirit means to throw the Bible or part of it away... I just understand it differently than u.
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy Obviously - we disagree... it isn't that the ten commandments don't matter (really - they are key to all Abrahamic religions even if it isn't recognized) - but the Law of Moses? How does one get past Hebrews chapter 8 and believe one must keep the Old Covenant that is no more?
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy shalom brutah, what the Mr. christoferl meant was he doesnt understand that spiritaul guidance is a form of regulation,for if you sin the spirit convicts you to repent of your sins , what sins? you ask ..well the ones written down for our learning thats how we know whats wrong and whats right...and just because paul said that every man must be fully convinced in his own mind,that doesnt mean that your exept from anything because your not convinced...
oh and one more thing, fathers dont gives kids different rules , if you are my child everyone follows the same rules...and we are free of the law, the Mosaic Law that is,the ten commandments and the mosaic law are 2 different things, also the dietary law is not the mosaic law....we are free by grace , meaning we have a way out when we BREAK THE LAWS OF YHVH...
@Emagick77 Actually - as a father of multiple children - I can tell you - a father often DOES give kids different rules in accordance to the child. Its easy to say a lot about Yahshuah - about who and what He was and how He lived... but the New Covenant is confirmed in the lives and testimonies of the Apostles. If Jesus came to make us Jews, then there would be no 'New' covenant. He started it, they confirmed it, and we live it.
if you are christian then consider yourself a catholic / jew..cuz thats what christianity is..yahshuah keep all feast , kept dietary laws and kept the ten commandments... the law that you are talking about is the mosaic law the more than 600 laws brother, thats what kept a yoke on the ppls neck not the ten commandments not the feast days not shabbat..you are free by grace not free from following the law...know the difference. being free plainly means to not be pronounced guilty with no way out
I am more a believer in the messianic judaism also. I believe in the original biblical texts of the Tanakh and Yeshua as our savior. My wish is one day everyone may know His love.
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy Why use the J? Just call Him Joshua if you're going to mix the languages that much. Praise God u r blessed in ur walk - my relationship with Him is not like than urs.Maybe that's His will so His Gospel can reach as many possible, maybe 1 of us is deceived, time will tell. for me, this says it all, (cont)
@christoferL Jn 5:39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life. Jesus didn't promise to send us the Bible - He promised the Holy Spirit. The Bible is a blessed gift, and it is good for instruction, correction, and equipping all believers. but the Word lives at the right hand of our Father - and His Holy Spirit is in us and among all true believers
Most standard christian teaching states that we dont have to obey the commandments of Yahweh because of the cross...We can be disobedient children..I believe that the Father wanted obedience from the Garden and through Yeshua we can achieve a true walk in the Word..Yeshua perfected Torah to give it purpose...Through faith in Him, we obey the word and it leads us to a place that is pleasing to God and not just ourselves..dont use the cross as an the excuse to be a disobedient child to the Father
@mcreasman I believe that Christians who believe they can be disobedient have forgotten we don't have a license to sin. They've been taught a falsehood concerning grace in that they have forgotten the Holy Spirit and the Law and how we should be obeying not by regulation but by Spiritual guidance...
The difference and nuance in Acts 15 was dealing specifically with Gentiles who wanted to follow Yeshua. Nowhere outside of Paul's writings, which were directed at Gentiles, are Jews told to lose their essential Jewish identity (which was as much genetic as a lifestyle) in order to follow Rabbi Yeshua. Matthew 5 describes the Rabbi's words about the commandments. Not all has been fulfilled yet, so the Torah's commandments are still in force for Jews. But they were not prescribed to Gentiles.
by the way, people don't get to ' vote' on what commandments they get to fufill. luke wrote about the voting the early believers did because it occured. that doesn't mean it was okay. many things are written in the bible that god didn't approve of. such as solomon taking multiple wives. the bibel isn't JUST a book of teaching, but a book of history on G-d's CHOSEN people. first the jew, THEN the gentile. the jew comes first.
Zionism NOT the works of God but those of the Antichrist, synagogue of satan. Nor are the "Jews" in Zionism from the seed of David or Moses or Abraham or Jesus. They are a forgery of Khazarian decent. They are a fake - an imitation chosen by Lucifer. They are NOT the descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel. Nor has the true Israel been established at the right time. Israel IS COUNTERFEIT!
"Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues".
If you read Acts 15:19-21 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.
You need to take verse 21 into consideration, the rest was taught weekly in the Synagogu
Paul's letter to the Romans also said to have the Law (Torah) written on our hearts, and that Christians are grafted into the vine of Israel. Any tradition based in the word of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a wonderful blessing. I wonder why my fellow Christians would ever knock anyone who would invite others to accept Yeshua.
@gimbledink7227 actually - I don't think it says 'to have the law written' but instead - 'they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts' - its about following the Spirit of the Law - isn't it?
@christoferL Read Jeremiah. It most certainly says that the Torah is written on our hearts. Jeremiah 31.33 says it's written on our hearts and put in our minds.
@jonahofakron It says the day will come... and it has - and it is a covenant NOT like those He gave before - and HIS Law is written on our hearts and minds... question - do you not see a difference between His Law and the Law of Moses?
@christoferL I think I see the issue. You and I are arguing that the same Covenant has different stipulations and effects. I'm not talking about the Mosaic Covenant. I am and have been talking about the New Covenant.
@christoferL I still don't think you see that what we are discussing is the same thing. Though the day has come, the change is not what you keep saying it is. You lack proper documentation to make sense of the claim that the Newest Covenant disintegrates the previous claims. How many of the previous covenants do you believe to be annulled because of Messiah? Should we be having a global flood? If the provision for Israel to get her land back wasn't in the Newest Covenant, would she get it??
@jonahofakron documentation? Jesus didn't promise the Bible - He sent the Holy Spirit... getting lost in what you think are proofs can be hindering to the Spirit... the Bible is a blessing and a gift... but it isn't the Holy Spirit Himself.
@christoferL So the Spirit tells you that the lack of information about the Law ending is minor and doesn't really mean that you should go with what evidence you have (the Bible)? Strange way to trust the Spirit.... I know He leads us, but I surely thought it was biblical material being the first insight into His ways. What ever suits you, though.
@christoferL And therefore forget all the tutor has taught us? Paul is discussing the fact that people put their trust and faith in the Torah rather than in the Messiah that Torah promised. Torah was never meant to be the salvation of anyone and Paul is making that abundantly clear.
@jonahofakron I never said 'forget the Torah (Law)' but as a 'gentile' - a non-Jewish Caucasian who believes in the Messiah & prays & follows the Spirit & reads the Bible... I understand the Torah to be educational but hardly binding. Now - by saying that you'd think I mean toss it - but I don't. In it we can understand what pleases God and what does not. In it we can see just how serious He is. Through the whole Old Testament we learn of faith through Abraham, Moses, Job and the rest - (cont)
@christoferL we learn of perseverance in the face of hardship - we learn of reward and success... the Torah is awesome - but it doesn't lead my life - it supplements it with knowledge.
@christoferL If the Torah led Messiah's life, and it did, and you claim to be led by Him and by His Spirit....by extension, your claim is that Torah should be leading you. He was a Pharisee of the highest order and led a life of perfection in order to exonerate any charges leveled against us for our sin. I do not believe that our lives could be lived closest to His without it... and this is not an exercise in 'Judaizing', as I do not claim that we are saved by anything but His sacrifice.
I have met people who say things like G-d wanted to open up his grace to all man kind through JC. But our knowledge of the Torah tells us that G-d has already "opened up his grace" to man kind by giving seven laws, incumbent upon all man kind after the flood.
Prohibition of 1)Idolatry2)Murder3)Theft4)Sexual immorality5)Blasphemy6)eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive7)Establishment of courts of law.
Worship of JC goes against law number 1). Why not just pray to G-d???
RoyBolinggoing 4 weeks ago
Why did you censer the second part of my comment?
RoyBolinggoing 1 month ago
@RoyBolinggoing i assure you - I didn't censor anything - at least intentionally. Please feel free to repost.
christoferL 1 month ago
@RoyBolinggoing so it isn't God changing his mind saying oops I need new rules it's him showing an example saying try to reach me on your own power and since we cannot he sent his son to give us a gift we don't deserve. Pure grace.
stoopidmuusic 1 month ago
@RoyBolinggoing the law of Moses was God saying, here, try to be perfect, if you can follow this law then you are as righteous and pure as I am. But obviously none of us can fully follow the law which is why we need Jesus, the only man to fulfill the law sacrificed so we aren't bound by it
stoopidmuusic 1 month ago
if youre a gentile you wouldnt be a messianic jew.
MsFullheart 1 month ago
56 likes and 52 unlikes. this is the sword of Jesus....lol.
hovogliadileggere 1 month ago
@hovogliadileggere its definitely a dividing topic...
christoferL 1 month ago
@christoferL i think so...
hovogliadileggere 1 month ago
Get a life or die
thone2008 1 month ago
I am a former Messianic. I have since returned to Orthodox Judaism.
KingOystar 1 month ago
@KingOystar thats a shame,you rejected the messiah!
MsFullheart 1 month ago
What I don't understand is why Christians think that G-d (who is above change and time) would give the Tora to the Jews and then change his mind and issue a new version of the bible - by these standards who's to say that he did not change his mind again and give the Koran to the Islamics...
RoyBolinggoing 2 months ago
@RoyBolinggoing I don't think He changed His mind - the OT stands even today - but He did open up His grace to all through Christ - which was the plan all along. The reason I don't think the Quran was given by God is because it is a step backwards from the Way of Jesus... I don't consider the NT to be a 'change of mind'.
christoferL 2 months ago
@christoferL But G-d has already opened up his heart to all man kind - and it is possible to find favour on G-d's eyes by following the 7 Noahide laws given after the flood. Meaning that all of man kind have 7 laws but that the Jews have 613 meaning that they have a more complicated job and role in the world - not that they are better, as such. I could accept what you say - if the Torah had not already provided for everything that the New Testament claims to stand for - and much more...
RoyBolinggoing 2 months ago
@RoyBolinggoing But we can't keep the whole Law. Everyone slips up somewhere. "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10. Jesus came to save us because nobody can keep that whole law. He showed us how to keep the spirit of it, the truth of it. He didnt stone the adulterous woman. The spirit of the Law: ""So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 7:12
Roy5595 1 month ago
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Roy5595 1 month ago
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@Roy5595 @Roy5595 And G-d didn't change his mind - the Law is G-d's perfect standard of course. But, being perfect and us not, we couldn't stand up to that standard. The NT is in step with the OT.
Roy5595 1 month ago
@RoyBolinggoing Furthermore, in the NT we see the heart G-d has for his people. Through the NT, we can have a closer, more personal relationship with G-d. That is what I find most beautiful about it.
Roy5595 1 month ago
@RoyBolinggoing Good point
Arielcohen1980 2 months ago
Titus1:10 (HCSB) For there are also many rebellious people, idle talkers and deceivers, especially those from Judaism.
I've no issue with keeping a strong Jewish identity, I still look like a frumnik, but to propose a form of Judaism & incorporate keruv for non Jews is completely heretical according to Scripture! I attend a Sunday church, (my pastor and family were church planters in my Jewish community, he's Jewish, they had to go back to Texas, church was Shabbos), but keep a strong identity.
Menechem 3 months ago
Galatians 3 says that he that hangs from the tree is cursed That means you were cursed for breaking the law.When jesus died he was perfect and took the curse therefore if you commit adultry you are no longer hanged or stoned jesus paid that price That does not mean that you can break the law. Being saved through grace we are obedient to the law because we love our God with all our heart soul and strength which is a diret quote of deut 6 v4 Jesus was speaking of shema
msskippy7781 3 months ago
Check out 119 ministries Acts 15 maybe you will understand
msskippy7781 3 months ago
between the two events. If there is sexual contract between the two events it is not a sin because the contract is already signed. Wedlock means outside of a binding contract. To have sex between the engagement and the wedding is a sin. Sex between a betrothal and a wedding is not a sin because the contract is binding from the time it is signed not from the time it is read Because it is a private contract it was not mandatory for a rabbi or judge to be presant.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
If someone with a western mind set were to read the law of Moses, They , would understand that as long as you were engaged that sex is ok. We know this to be wrong.The problem is a misunderstanding of the terms.A Jewish wedding happens in two stages.The Kiddushin is where the proposal is made and the contract is signed.Then the groom goes and builds a house for his bride.The Nissuin is when he comes to get her the contract is then read publicly.There might be a three year gap.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
Shalom means peace but this is not just peace as we know it it is the peace that passes all understanding. In otherwords it will blow your mind. Divorce to Moses meant something a little different then what we understand today. Engagement is the closest word we can come to the word betrothal. but it dont mean the same thing exactly.You have to look at culture that it was written in to fully understand the meaning.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
You have to understand freind that whenever you study the bible It means what the reader would have understood at the time it was written. when you translate from one language sometimes there is not a word that brings an exact meaning. For example Modeh is a word that means thankful and it means surrender in hebrew.Translated it is a thanful surrender.This is not a surrender where you are defeated. It is a surrender of understanding. Like when you got saved
msskippy7781 3 months ago
The Galatians were a group of people that believed that you were saved by circumcisionGalatians 3 makes it absolutly clear that we are saved by our faith in Yeshua 2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
If Jesus commands us to observe and do all that is bid us to observe If you understood jewish law devorce was never intended to be permanant. their devorce is more like separation. Jesus did not change the law that was given us to think that he meant a different law is a fallacy God gave us the law on the mountain. That is is the only law he is going to hold us to he is never changing. To insinuate anything different would mean that the bible was not completly true.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
@msskippy7781 and yet - in verse 18 Jesus said - 18“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
What Law was He speaking of? The Law of Moses that allows divorce? I don't think so. I believe He taught the Royal Law of God (James 2:8)... which has much in common with the Law of Moses... but it also differs in many ways...
christoferL 3 months ago
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination
If you believe that Jesus changed the law or nullified it in some way you are mistaken because in Matthew chapter 23 JESUS commanded us to oberve the Law
You can choose not to follow the law but as for me I absolutly keep the law out of obedience to matthew chapter 23
msskippy7781 3 months ago
@msskippy7781 I disagree... Galatians 3
christoferL 3 months ago
6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
You cannot be a teacher of the law if you do not understand it. We are given grace.if we sin but we keep the law out of obedience to our faith., If you love me keep my commandments
You are ignoring Matt ch. 23
msskippy7781 3 months ago
@msskippy7781 Keep reading "8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers" - Is the Law for the Saints of Christ? Really? Don't you find it interesting that every single scripture you post can be refuted by reading the verses immediately following them? (cont)
christoferL 3 months ago
@christoferL As for Matthew 23 wasn't Jesus speaking TO Jews who were still under the Old Covenant?
christoferL 3 months ago
if youread Acts 15 you see in verse 21 that He in reasoning with the council mentions that They teach Moses,Law in the synogogue every sabbath. Which means that it was intended for the new believers to learn the law. Then If you read chapter 16 He taking Timmothy with him found it nescessary to circumsize him before going out to deliver the decree. If the law had been done away with there would have been not reason to circumcise him. Ipeter 23-25 Maatches Is 40 v 8 It is the same doctrine.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
@msskippy7781 Acts 15:21 "21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." It STILL is! Timothy was circumcised due to the Jews in the area - not because of the Law (vs. 3) 1 Peter 1:23-25 QUOTES Is.40:6-8 - but it is not an endorsement of the Jewish Law. Its interesting how you ignore so much to make a point that can be so easily refuted. I don't want to argue, but your view seems to ignore the NT
christoferL 3 months ago
@christoferL I am not ignoring the New testament at all. Jesus did not ignore the old testament . He assured us in Matt 5 17 -20 that he did not change the law. the apostles followed the law. and Jesus commanded us to observe the law because that was what was taught out of Moses'seat If you want to see what Moses' seat looks like goole Moses's seat on google images. Jews understand that only the law of Moses was taught from that seat. That is where Torah was read. Jesus followed Torah perfect.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
@christoferL you are missing the part where it says and this is the word which has been preached to you it is an endorsement of the law If you want another one But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: When he was defending himself he had not offended any law of Ceasar or of the Jews Acts 25 v8.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
Acts 26 v. 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
The Apostle Paul testifies here that he has said ONLY what the prophets and the Law of Moses said would come.Peter and Paul have verified that The Law of Moses and the words of the prophets are the doctrine. Jeremiah 8 v8 says the pen of the scribe is vain..We are only supposed to accept the law
msskippy7781 3 months ago
One law one costom for us of the assembly and the stranger amongst us NUM 15 v15&16 One faith one baptism Eph 4 v5 One faith one baptism. Jesus after promising that the law would not change Matt 5 v17-20 commanded us to observe and do all that is bid us to observe out of MOSES' SEAT. That is why I am a messianic Jew instead of a Christian. There is not supposed to be a difference between the two.
msskippy7781 3 months ago
"That is why I am a messianic Jew instead of a Christian. There is not supposed to be a difference between the two." The Apostles apparently disagreed with your conclusion as testified by Acts 15.
christoferL 3 months ago
(continued) The early church followed Yeshua in all He observed. He did not break any of the 613 commandments that GOD gave to Moses. The early Yeshuaites followed Torah and lived under grace. They lived responsibly in their behavior of the Teachings, attended Temple (until it was destroyed), and received Salvation -Yeshua. Greasy grace stuff can make you sick.
heartheprophets 5 months ago
@heartheprophets "The early church followed Yeshua in all He observed." Acts 10 and 11 seems to counter that concept. " attended Temple (until it was destroyed)" How did believers to far from Jerusalem attend 'temple'?
christoferL 3 months ago
(continued) they would understand truth themselves and not worry about being ex-communicated from the denomination they adhere to. Yup, getting bounced for telling the truth is acceptable . . .
Grafted in amongst them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree . . . the root is Torah, and Abraham, Israel. We should hold fast to those things given from the beginning as Yeshua had. He did not destroy the Law, but fulfilled it by being perfect in all the commandments
heartheprophets 5 months ago
@heartheprophets yet - being perfect in God's law appeared to be violations according to the experts in the Law.
christoferL 3 months ago
According to Romans 11, we are grafted-in to the Olive tree. The Olive tree is not grafted in to Christianity which is mostly Greekianity.The Yeshuites in the beginning were being converted at synagogues. If one would read the Bible with an open mind instead of the preconceived notions they receive from their 'traditional' anti-semitic Nicene church fathers who were heretical in beliefs concerning 'the way,' and stop parroting these 'traditions' from their biased pastors and teachers . . .
heartheprophets 5 months ago
What is grace... sounds like something else that Jesus picked up from Buddhism.
blatkins722 5 months ago
@blatkins722 grace - undeserved favor
christoferL 5 months ago
@blatkins722 Seeing that God created the world through Jesus Christ as Scripture says , I would say the Buddhists either made it up themselves or got it from him, now if you believe that the Word of God is a lie ,,,keep on keeping on,,,,I know better.
Jayteah1953 5 months ago
Why I'm a Christian and Not a Messianic Jew "
Messianic Jew is a fundie christian in drag.
Matthew1944 6 months ago
@Matthew1944 ROFL - I shouldn't laugh - I know - Messianic Jews take their religion seriously - but that was funny.
christoferL 6 months ago
The law is eternal, you say you can quote verses all day long... then bring up the verses that will contradict your out of context understanding... and then repent.
If you are not keeping the entire law your not loving correctly but only with mans definitions and understandings.
Type "Letter of Peter to James" in google and search, click the first link. And also actually read all the bible before you make all of these blasphemous and ignorant videos, your fruit is not good.
deathknight228 7 months ago
@deathknight228 your condescending approach merely renders your inaccurate message mute. "And also actually read all the bible before you make all of these blasphemous and ignorant videos, your fruit is not good." As a reader of the Bible making a statement in good faith - all I can say to you is I pray your hardened heart doesn't remain that way for the rest of your life.
christoferL 7 months ago
God children are known by there deeds no matter what (title) they go by. But as I said beleiving in the Messiah is a very Jewish thing to do becuase the prophets do speak of Yeshuah not another that is to come. The Romans changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday and wanted to seperate Yeshuahs followers from Judiasm and Israel remember that, You dont have to call it messianic, Its pure judiams to me to believe in Yeshuah or Jesus what ever you wanna call him
theguywhohadabone123 7 months ago
@theguywhohadabone123 wanted to seperate Yeshuahs followers from Judiasm and Israel remember that, "
Those followers of Jesus didn't believe him to be a god and are not connected with todays Messianic Judaism which is a syncretic religious movement that arose in the 1960s. and is based on evangelical Christian theology .
Matthew1944 6 months ago
I dont think Jesus (Yeshuah) came to start another religion but to fullfill judiasm, a gentile is one born with out law but however no one is born a Jew it is a choice you must make, All are Adams blood and are under the curse so Yeshuah said you must be born again wether you were born under the law or not. We are not children of Abraham, we are children of God. We need no Rabbi to go through we can talk to God ourselfs threw Yeshuah Gods true Rabbi
theguywhohadabone123 7 months ago
@theguywhohadabone123 All are Adams blood and are under the curse so Yeshuah said you must be born again wether "
Christians, specifically Paul, invented the idea of a curse from birth - original sin.. The Jewish bible doesn't say anything about it. Jesus taught completely within Judaism the belief that if you live an evil life, at death, you will remain dead and not be born again into eternal life.
Matthew1944 6 months ago
messianics are just christians who play Jewish dress up! they lie to jews, christians, and themselves!
Bluejew02 7 months ago
So the context is not about abrogating the law for Gentiles but "how are we saved" and what do we place on "New Converts" before they are taught and growing in the Lord.
thjodmar 7 months ago
In verse 21 we learn it is because the rest of the law will come to them by being taught in Church every Sabbath through the preaching of the Word and the law being read in the churches every Sabbath day which was set up by Moses of old time. Through Sanctification and being under the preached Word they will be taught the rest of the Law. Not for Justification but for Sanctification.
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar I think - with all due respect - you're reading what you want to into the passages.
christoferL 7 months ago
What is the meaning of verse 19? Who are not to be troubled? We are not to trouble them who are "turning" to God. The word turning here in Greek means converting or in other words a Proselyte. We are not to trouble those who are turning to God. Don't tell them they have to be circumcised or do any law in order to be saved. We gave you no such command to do that. This is about New Converts and we are not to teach them that salvation is by works but by Faith. What about after they are converted?
thjodmar 7 months ago
The law has never saved anyone, it can't.. But the law is our sanctification. So what was the Yoke in v. 10? It can not be the law of God since Psalm 119:45 says "And I will walk at liberty for I seek thy precepts: The answer lies in the context. The Pharisees were teaching Salvation through works. We are not to place such a burden upon their necks that God did not even require since it is impossible with fallen man. But this does not mean we do not strive to be holy out of love to God.
thjodmar 7 months ago
Acts 15 was not about Messianic Judaism, It was about Ebionite Judaism... There is a difference.. The Ebionites were Pharisee Christians who believed you must keep the law for salvation and keep the oral law of the elders. So the context in acts 15 is whether to keep the law for salvation or not and what to place on new turning believers on the out set when they make a profession and join the Ekklesia. Why? Because the rest of the law will be taught to them every week (v. 21). cont in next msg
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar "Acts 15 was not about Messianic Judaism, It was about Ebionite Judaism..." My translations don't say either or - just Jewish believers... segmenting them into particular sects seems to go beyond the scope of the writing. What are you basing this interpretation on anyways? Acts 15 was saying Gentiles didn't have to become Jews... period... in order to follow Jesus. BTW - the 'rest' of the law - is still read today in the fullness of the Bible.
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL The context of this entire dispute is Justification and whether we are saved by keeping the law or saved by faith alone. Notice how in verse 1 that some Pharisee's which we learn in Verse 5 were believers in the Lord Jesus Christ but they taught that one can only be saved first by keeping the law of God after the manner of moses "Except ye be circumcised". cont...
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar "The context of this entire dispute is Justification and whether we are saved by keeping the law or saved by faith alone." It was about some Jews telling Gentiles they couldn't be saved without being circumcised and following the Law of Moses according to my reading... and the Apostles responded with a unified - nope...
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL So the issues is not about Sanctification.. We are not to place the law before the blood of Christ or in other words say that people can not be saved apart from the law. The Ebionites were and ARE the ones who believe you must keep the law to be saved... They were the ones who in Acts 15 were saying that in order to be saved you must keep the law of Circumcision..
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar So you are basing your belief that they were Ebonite on unrelated research of the time period... yet there is nothing in the passage that says so? Forgive me - but that is reading INTO. It would be one thing to say they were probably ebonite, but the way you state it as fact makes me believe I shouldn't take what you're saying as fact. Quite simply the passage says you don't have to be Jew to be saved... why make it more complicated than that?
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL The law must stand.. It is our rule of holiness, our sanctification. the way you are interpreting Acts 15 does massive destruction to the rest of scripture and creates all kinds of contradictions... Christ himself said I did not come to destroy or abrogate the law and not til heaven and earth pass away will one jot or one tittle be passed away and the man who teaches the least of these commandments will be consider least in the kingdom of God. The commission of the Messiah ....
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar He did abolish - He fulfilled and as His followers we are supposed to do that as well. I believe a believer in the Spirit who is ignorant to the Law is more in line with Christ than a believer who follows the Law and doesn't understand the work of the Holy Spirit. You don't need a law to tell you right form wrong when you have the Holy Spirit leading you. I love the WHOLE Bible, but I believe those trying to follow Laws have missed the whole point.
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL He specifically said "I did NOT come to destroy or abolish the Torah and the Prophets" The Greek and even Aramaic word in Matthew 5 that is translated as "fulfilled" in Greek and Aramaic is Confirmed. He came to Confirmed the law which is what Isaiah told us He would do.. The Spirit ONLY leads us through his Written word which are the Words of the Spirit. The Spirit leads us knowing right and wrong through the written Word which is the only revealed will of God. I believe...
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar "He specifically said "I did NOT come to destroy or abolish the Torah and the Prophets"" and it exists in billions of Bibles - even today... "The Greek and even Aramaic word in Matthew 5 that is translated as "fulfilled" in Greek and Aramaic is Confirmed. " weird - not once does Strong's use 'confirm' in its definition (G4137-plēroō) and btw - the Spirit leads with or without the Word... I've seen Him in action with people who have never read the Bible who love the Lord...
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL Strongs is pretty weak.. I prefer, arndt gingrich Greek-English lexicon, Liddell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon, and the Aramaic Lexicon... And sorry, I am not Charismatic....
thjodmar 7 months ago
@christoferL people who do not understand the continuation of the law for the rule of life and are antinomian do not understand the gospel and I must question their sincerity. 1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." and 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar amen - but I see HIS commandments as those He gave specifically to the Apostles while on earth... I believe this and can tell you He hasn't led me astray in this. The 'good news' wasn't the same ole news... as it says in Hebrews, the old passed away (testified by the temple falling) and the new is lost those who harden their hearts and refuse to believe it... I could be wrong and incredibly messed up... but I do not think so - and believe me - I want to know if I am... GBU
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL If Christ gave a new commandment, then He broke the law, Deuteronomy 12:32. If Christ broke the law then He just illegitimated his Messiahship since the Messiah who had to keep the law perfectly to be sacrifice for US as the perfect sacrifice without blemished then He can not be the Messiah. So then we must look for another... But I do not believe this to be the case.. continue in next...
thjodmar 7 months ago
@christoferL a great quote from Ignatius from the Early Church, Ignatius Epistle to Philadelphia, c8.introduces a believer saying – which Ignatius heartily assents to as well, “What I do not find in Moses and the Prophets, I'll not believe in the gospel.” Ignatius continues “But there is no danger of this, no hazard of being put to such a trail; for certainly the New Testament saith none other than Moses and the Prophets did say and that should come to pass.”
thjodmar 7 months ago
@christoferL in Isaiah said He would come to magnify the law and make it honorable. Not abrogated it or destroy it and make it null and void for believers. Peter warns at the end of 2 Peter about Pauls writings, Paul is a man of God and full of wisdom, But be careful, Paul is HARD to understand. Some have taken his writings to mean they abrogate the law but be warned and be careful not to run toward the Torahless.
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar "Paul is HARD to understand" I don't have a problem with Paul at all... and I have my WHOLE Bible in hand - but I do not believe I am bound to Jewish law at all... only the 'spirit' of the law... which the Holy Spirit makes abundantly clear.
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL Another problem with your interpretation of Acts 15 is that you are saying that Gentiles only need to do these 4 things.. But many other moral laws are not listed here. What about theft? What about lying? What about Blasphemy? So is it okay for me to steal or to lie? As a Gentile am I free to Blaspheme God's name?
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar I think you're missing what I am saying... without the Law I do not steal, lie, blaspheme, etc - but I do not do these things because the Holy Spirit leads me not to do them... see what I am saying? Gentiles don't have a license to sin - but they (we) are not under the harsh school master that is the LAW - as the book of Hebrews put it...When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL The Old Covenant was only the Mosaic Covenant which consisted of the Temple, Aaronic Priesthood, Sacrifices, and Rituals of the Temple. We who are in the Covenant of Grace are in the Renewed Covenant of Abraham (See Gal. 3, Eph 2, Romans 2, etc) The Mosaic Covenant was a republication of the Covenant of Works and an administration of the Covenant of Grace. The Types and shadows of the Temple, Priesthood, Sacrifices, and Rituals were shadows of Christ.
thjodmar 7 months ago
@christoferL The Mosaic Covenant is obsolete because we do not need those shadows of Christ now that He is our High Priest, our Sacrifice, in the heavenly Temple. That does not do away with the rest of the law which was written on the Heart of Adam, confirmed in Abraham, renewed in the heart with Christ and will stand as a rule of life until heaven and earth passes away. Anyway, WE are in the Renewed Covenant of Abraham, the Covenant of Grace, saved by Grace, Freedom from the bondage of Sin, so.
thjodmar 7 months ago
@christoferL So that we might keep the Commandments of God, which is the imitation of our savior, Yahushua.
thjodmar 7 months ago
@christoferL So the question then before us is, are the Gentiles free from the entire law except these four items which then would greatly limit what is morally wrong and what is morally right or the subject is not about abrogating but about justification and what is required on “new believers”up front.
thjodmar 7 months ago
@thjodmar No one is under the Law anymore - it is the old and (soon to pass) passed replaced by the NEW... the problem is many cannot accept just how open and easy His yoke actually is. IMHO
christoferL 7 months ago
@christoferL No one is under the Law anymore - it is the old and (soon to pass) passed replaced by the NEW...\\
Wrong. The covenant was eternal and in that case, there can be no NEW covenant.
Matthew1944 6 months ago
Wait, are you a practicing Christian? I’m confused. I just left a comment on your “Rod Parsley’s Seed?” video praising you for being a perceptive young man. I guess I was wrong. I’m disappointed, I thought you were cool and well educated. Now I’m sad.
But that's my problem, not yours. Peace anyway.
Zy9dot5 7 months ago
@Zy9dot5 "Wait, are you a practicing Christian?" I am. " I’m confused." about? "I thought you were cool and well educated. " sorry to have let you down? "But that's my problem, not yours. Peace anyway." maybe - but if you see a glaring deficiency do let me know. Character isn't always built in silence.
christoferL 7 months ago
Ur not cute enough to be a jew anywayz.
TheGhettoMuffin 7 months ago
You're an uneducated moron who cursed me at the end of this video with the the latin word bless , a dirivation of the arabic word ebliss , meaning satan.
since you have cursed me with your pagan lips , I will bow before Yahuvah so that you will see who the true God is.
I will expose you for the fraud you are.
azkeyz 7 months ago
@azkeyz no u won't... lol... you are so stuck on 'words' and 'languages' you'll never get past the cover... don't hurt yourself there.
christoferL 7 months ago
Your grace can only come through understanding of Yahushua Ha Moshiach
You will not understand his grace untill you understand he is the correct kosher model
You will embrace Yahushua Ha Moshiach and reject the greek jesus.
Have I made myself clear.
azkeyz 7 months ago
@azkeyz "Your grace" my grace doesn't matter - its His grace - whether you call Him Yahshua or Jesus or Joshua or the Son of God - He knows who He is better than we do. We know Him by His VOICE... not His name...
christoferL 7 months ago
once you embrace Yahusha Ha Moshiach , there is no greek jesus
in other words , if you believe in Yahushua , you are not a jew anymore if you were
you are from that moment on a melchizedek
you will NOT reject the melchizedek faith because moshiach is melchizedek.
have I made myself clear.
azkeyz 7 months ago
@azkeyz no, He isn't Melchizedek... Melchizedek represents the order of priesthood Christ is the head of...
christoferL 7 months ago
You have made a grave error sir , christianity is greco roman paganism.
Go back and study everything again in hebrew sir
messianic is not just a jew thing , you need Yahushua Ha Moshiach , not the greek jezeus
azkeyz 7 months ago
@azkeyz Christianity isn't the issue. Religion (all of it) is crap... its all about the relationship one has with Him.
christoferL 7 months ago
well you got a messed up idea of what messianic means.
I'm a melchizedek myself , that means jew and gentile in one body.
and we don't engage in noahide law
there is only one law , love one another
embrace Yahushua Ha Moshiach , reject the greek word jesus.
azkeyz 7 months ago
@azkeyz "I'm a melchizedek myself , that means jew and gentile in one body." nothing like creating your own definitions (unless you can prove that in scripture). BTW - stop stressing over the languages... its a waste of time. God is above the tongues of men, don't you get that?
christoferL 7 months ago
Comment removed
azkeyz 7 months ago
CHRISTIAN, MESSIANIC JEW, REGULAR JEW: ENBRACE THE FREEDOM OF DEBATE BUT WORRY AND BE FRIGHTEN OF THE RISE OF ISLAM.
POPACHELLI 8 months ago
I wish people could grasp the simplicity and PURE BLISS we have in Christ Jesus. God bless you, Chris!
MessiahYeshuah 8 months ago
You just don`t want to give up your "rare-steak" and ham n'cheese sandwich.
Get a life. GOD instituted only one WAY to Him...His Son came as a Jew you idiot. Wake up.
Hatorah 9 months ago
FREE FROM WHAT???? Grace is not opposite of TORAH - what are you talking about?! We are free from paganism and from Judaism (which was nothing common with the real Law and TORAH). But now we can not live as pagans with all our heritage! You have not clue what is TORAH is ....
mpavel1973 9 months ago
I think you are not understanding what a messianic Jew is. It is not synonymous to judaizer. I gew up around a sect that could easily be guilty of judaizing (that is, attributing a salvific meaning to Jewish customs.) I found amongst messianic believers a greater celebration of Christ's redemptive sacrifice and the gospel. They don't stop being a Jews because they accept Jesus. As I understand it, the bible responds to the matter of customs that derive from our spiritual heritage in Judaism...
wannabefitness 9 months ago
@wannabefitness The Gentiles were never Jew and were not forced to become Jew in order to follow Christ - that is why, not being born a Jew, I am not a Messianic - but for the record - I love and appreciate Messianics... only getting upset when they try to tell me I am not following Yeshua because I do not follow Jewish ways. That defeats the whole purpose of the New Covenant in my humble opinion.
christoferL 9 months ago
@christoferL I would agree they want to take away Grace and replace it with works. My son who is not Jewish follows this sect and feels that obedience in these laws are necessary but cannot support his views with scripture. I feel he just does not know how to apply scripture by rightly dividing the word. Maybe someone can articulate why he keeps using James 2:18 as a reason to use the Jewish Customs and laws. And why he HATES Christians..just wanted to see why the hate?
governcivilwar 8 months ago
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy You seem to miss the entire point - but hey - GBU -
christoferL 9 months ago
The fact of the matter is that the word Christ did not exist in the days of Yeshua or the disciples. However, the word Messiah did. That is why in Acts 11:26 the early church WAS named. "... it was in Antioch that the talmidim for the first time were called "Messianic." In most translations, this is worded as Christians, but that term was actually used erroniously, as the original term was Chrestus (in the Greek). Yeshua himself is the Messiah. This is why I am a Messianic believer.....
thistlesw 9 months ago
@thistlesw The word christ indeed did exist. Christ is the translation of messiah into greek, who made up most of the church at the time, so whenever they called jesus the messiah, they used the word christos ie.. christ
MnSPictures 9 months ago
I just don't see how someone can detach the first part of the book from the second half and feel they have the whole truth...shalom alechiam
mcreasman 9 months ago
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy Never said throw the Law away. I read it all the time - its IN the Bible. What I am saying is the New Covenant doesn't require written laws to govern the followers of Christ because we are guided by the Holy Spirit Himself. The Scriptures are a blessing beyond measure, but man still longs to cling to the Law because He hasn't believed what JESHUA promised.
christoferL 9 months ago
I disagree with you bro because we as believers in Christ should also follow the law presented in the Old Testament. If ALL the law is not to be followed then that means that the ten commandments aren't meant to be followed.
studiousx3 9 months ago
@studiousx3 "we as believers in Christ should also follow the law presented in the Old Testament." The 10 commandments are woven into the teachings of Jesus - as is the Spirit of the Law... I believe the early Christian communities demonstrated how we should be...
christoferL 9 months ago
@christoferL They did demonstrate how we should be. It's about following Messiah in a Torah-keeping lifestyle. He did and so did His disciples.
jonahofakron 9 months ago
HEB.8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people...Exactly what "laws" is this scripture talking about? Certainly Yahweh didn't write all new ones to put on men's hearts who follow Yeshua...It is obvious that love is the basis of our faith...but we still walk in the light of his Torah..
mcreasman 9 months ago
@mcreasman did you keep reading? Hebrews 8:13 When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
the last verse of the chapter... in case u missed it.
christoferL 9 months ago
@christoferL the only difference in the covenants is that the atonement is made in His blood...but, that doesn't mean we have the right to be disobedient to the commandments that the Father told us to obey...from the first ten, in exodus, He shouted down to the Israelites... to the last ones he gives in deuteronomy.....In faith of Messiah believing, we use the spirit of God to obey the commandments walking the "narrow" path that He specified...not walking our own wide roads to destruction..
mcreasman 9 months ago
@mcreasman Jesus said He was sending the Holy Spirit... to guide us - lead us - instruct us - correct us... that is what I follow.
christoferL 9 months ago
@christoferL with 2500 denominatons all following the "Spirit", divorce rates are the same in the church as they are out of it, the youth of america cant stand faith and what it means to follow a saviour...I don't see where you find comfort in saying that you dont need a "map" to go by in your walk, even with the spirit...jacob was given a walk that was different from everybody else after his encounter with the angel of God...then his name was turned to Israel-"to rule with God".. it's symbolic
mcreasman 9 months ago
@mcreasman remember - Jesus said the path is narrow... obviously the wide path that Christianity has become has a lot of things that are not of Him. Many deceiving spirits exist... and men like their ears tickled... but that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is void. U act as if I don't read the Bible - meaning Old and New Testaments (sometimes the Apocrypha)... as if living by the Spirit means to throw the Bible or part of it away... I just understand it differently than u.
christoferL 9 months ago
@christoferL Amen!
MessiahYeshuah 8 months ago
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy Obviously - we disagree... it isn't that the ten commandments don't matter (really - they are key to all Abrahamic religions even if it isn't recognized) - but the Law of Moses? How does one get past Hebrews chapter 8 and believe one must keep the Old Covenant that is no more?
christoferL 9 months ago
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy shalom brutah, what the Mr. christoferl meant was he doesnt understand that spiritaul guidance is a form of regulation,for if you sin the spirit convicts you to repent of your sins , what sins? you ask ..well the ones written down for our learning thats how we know whats wrong and whats right...and just because paul said that every man must be fully convinced in his own mind,that doesnt mean that your exept from anything because your not convinced...
Emagick77 9 months ago
oh and one more thing, fathers dont gives kids different rules , if you are my child everyone follows the same rules...and we are free of the law, the Mosaic Law that is,the ten commandments and the mosaic law are 2 different things, also the dietary law is not the mosaic law....we are free by grace , meaning we have a way out when we BREAK THE LAWS OF YHVH...
Emagick77 9 months ago
@Emagick77 Actually - as a father of multiple children - I can tell you - a father often DOES give kids different rules in accordance to the child. Its easy to say a lot about Yahshuah - about who and what He was and how He lived... but the New Covenant is confirmed in the lives and testimonies of the Apostles. If Jesus came to make us Jews, then there would be no 'New' covenant. He started it, they confirmed it, and we live it.
christoferL 9 months ago
just because we now have a way out doesnt mean we dont have to follow the rules
Emagick77 9 months ago
@Emagick77 Are you familiar with the New Testamant? The book of Acts, the Epistles of the Apostles?
christoferL 9 months ago
@Emagick77 Rules rules rules - all of which hang on love God and love each other...
christoferL 9 months ago
if you are christian then consider yourself a catholic / jew..cuz thats what christianity is..yahshuah keep all feast , kept dietary laws and kept the ten commandments... the law that you are talking about is the mosaic law the more than 600 laws brother, thats what kept a yoke on the ppls neck not the ten commandments not the feast days not shabbat..you are free by grace not free from following the law...know the difference. being free plainly means to not be pronounced guilty with no way out
Emagick77 9 months ago
I am more a believer in the messianic judaism also. I believe in the original biblical texts of the Tanakh and Yeshua as our savior. My wish is one day everyone may know His love.
royalsteven 10 months ago
@royalsteven There's a lot like you - and in my mind - the important thing is your faith in Yeshua. GBU
christoferL 10 months ago
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy Wow.. bless you.
MrGrafted 10 months ago
@thatsmrtoyoubuddy Why use the J? Just call Him Joshua if you're going to mix the languages that much. Praise God u r blessed in ur walk - my relationship with Him is not like than urs.Maybe that's His will so His Gospel can reach as many possible, maybe 1 of us is deceived, time will tell. for me, this says it all, (cont)
christoferL 10 months ago
@christoferL Jn 5:39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life. Jesus didn't promise to send us the Bible - He promised the Holy Spirit. The Bible is a blessed gift, and it is good for instruction, correction, and equipping all believers. but the Word lives at the right hand of our Father - and His Holy Spirit is in us and among all true believers
christoferL 10 months ago
Most standard christian teaching states that we dont have to obey the commandments of Yahweh because of the cross...We can be disobedient children..I believe that the Father wanted obedience from the Garden and through Yeshua we can achieve a true walk in the Word..Yeshua perfected Torah to give it purpose...Through faith in Him, we obey the word and it leads us to a place that is pleasing to God and not just ourselves..dont use the cross as an the excuse to be a disobedient child to the Father
mcreasman 10 months ago
@mcreasman I believe that Christians who believe they can be disobedient have forgotten we don't have a license to sin. They've been taught a falsehood concerning grace in that they have forgotten the Holy Spirit and the Law and how we should be obeying not by regulation but by Spiritual guidance...
christoferL 10 months ago
The difference and nuance in Acts 15 was dealing specifically with Gentiles who wanted to follow Yeshua. Nowhere outside of Paul's writings, which were directed at Gentiles, are Jews told to lose their essential Jewish identity (which was as much genetic as a lifestyle) in order to follow Rabbi Yeshua. Matthew 5 describes the Rabbi's words about the commandments. Not all has been fulfilled yet, so the Torah's commandments are still in force for Jews. But they were not prescribed to Gentiles.
Ooftyman 10 months ago
by the way, people don't get to ' vote' on what commandments they get to fufill. luke wrote about the voting the early believers did because it occured. that doesn't mean it was okay. many things are written in the bible that god didn't approve of. such as solomon taking multiple wives. the bibel isn't JUST a book of teaching, but a book of history on G-d's CHOSEN people. first the jew, THEN the gentile. the jew comes first.
ghostdancer1984 11 months ago
Zionism NOT the works of God but those of the Antichrist, synagogue of satan. Nor are the "Jews" in Zionism from the seed of David or Moses or Abraham or Jesus. They are a forgery of Khazarian decent. They are a fake - an imitation chosen by Lucifer. They are NOT the descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel. Nor has the true Israel been established at the right time. Israel IS COUNTERFEIT!
"Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues".
Ayelyah 1 year ago
If you read Acts 15:19-21 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.
You need to take verse 21 into consideration, the rest was taught weekly in the Synagogu
rgroff 1 year ago
башню чинить надо ) Все Это Рок - н - Ролл
Бригада С и Др.
Sruly5734 1 year ago
@Sruly5734 sorry - but I can't read that -or translate it... :(
christoferL 1 year ago
Paul's letter to the Romans also said to have the Law (Torah) written on our hearts, and that Christians are grafted into the vine of Israel. Any tradition based in the word of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a wonderful blessing. I wonder why my fellow Christians would ever knock anyone who would invite others to accept Yeshua.
gimbledink7227 1 year ago
@gimbledink7227 actually - I don't think it says 'to have the law written' but instead - 'they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts' - its about following the Spirit of the Law - isn't it?
christoferL 1 year ago
@christoferL How does one know the spirit of the law? It is written, "Who can know the will of God?"
kfarris23430 1 year ago
@kfarris23430 It is only through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - as demonstrated by the Gentile Paul wrote about in Romans 2:14-15
christoferL 1 year ago
@christoferL Read Jeremiah. It most certainly says that the Torah is written on our hearts. Jeremiah 31.33 says it's written on our hearts and put in our minds.
jonahofakron 11 months ago
@jonahofakron It says the day will come... and it has - and it is a covenant NOT like those He gave before - and HIS Law is written on our hearts and minds... question - do you not see a difference between His Law and the Law of Moses?
christoferL 11 months ago
@christoferL I think I see the issue. You and I are arguing that the same Covenant has different stipulations and effects. I'm not talking about the Mosaic Covenant. I am and have been talking about the New Covenant.
jonahofakron 11 months ago
@christoferL I still don't think you see that what we are discussing is the same thing. Though the day has come, the change is not what you keep saying it is. You lack proper documentation to make sense of the claim that the Newest Covenant disintegrates the previous claims. How many of the previous covenants do you believe to be annulled because of Messiah? Should we be having a global flood? If the provision for Israel to get her land back wasn't in the Newest Covenant, would she get it??
jonahofakron 11 months ago
@jonahofakron documentation? Jesus didn't promise the Bible - He sent the Holy Spirit... getting lost in what you think are proofs can be hindering to the Spirit... the Bible is a blessing and a gift... but it isn't the Holy Spirit Himself.
christoferL 11 months ago
@christoferL So the Spirit tells you that the lack of information about the Law ending is minor and doesn't really mean that you should go with what evidence you have (the Bible)? Strange way to trust the Spirit.... I know He leads us, but I surely thought it was biblical material being the first insight into His ways. What ever suits you, though.
jonahofakron 11 months ago
@jonahofakron No - as stated in numerous videos and comments - I have presented scripture backing up everything I have said...
Galatians 3:25
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
christoferL 11 months ago
@christoferL And therefore forget all the tutor has taught us? Paul is discussing the fact that people put their trust and faith in the Torah rather than in the Messiah that Torah promised. Torah was never meant to be the salvation of anyone and Paul is making that abundantly clear.
jonahofakron 11 months ago
@jonahofakron I never said 'forget the Torah (Law)' but as a 'gentile' - a non-Jewish Caucasian who believes in the Messiah & prays & follows the Spirit & reads the Bible... I understand the Torah to be educational but hardly binding. Now - by saying that you'd think I mean toss it - but I don't. In it we can understand what pleases God and what does not. In it we can see just how serious He is. Through the whole Old Testament we learn of faith through Abraham, Moses, Job and the rest - (cont)
christoferL 11 months ago
@christoferL we learn of perseverance in the face of hardship - we learn of reward and success... the Torah is awesome - but it doesn't lead my life - it supplements it with knowledge.
christoferL 11 months ago
@christoferL If the Torah led Messiah's life, and it did, and you claim to be led by Him and by His Spirit....by extension, your claim is that Torah should be leading you. He was a Pharisee of the highest order and led a life of perfection in order to exonerate any charges leveled against us for our sin. I do not believe that our lives could be lived closest to His without it... and this is not an exercise in 'Judaizing', as I do not claim that we are saved by anything but His sacrifice.
jonahofakron 11 months ago