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From: MichaelShermer
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  • Placebo effects are eliminated, pediatric and veterinary acupuncture has the same effect as adults. Babies just a few months old as well as animals heal at the same rate, immediately after treatment. Most illnesses treated with acupuncture are chronic (long standing) and these babies and animals heal right after treatment.

    I'd like to have an explanation to this from one of those 'I know everything' people.

  • Of course the placebo effect exists baffling doctors & pharmacists in every medical field. But to say that acupuncture works via P.E. is a mediocre comment proving absolute ignorance about this healing method. Not even endorphin secretion can explain the effect of painless thin needles placed in distant & non anatomically connected sites.

  • MRI imaging showed that puncturing point Hegu (a major headache reliving point on the hand) with an acupuncture needle has reduced up to 70% (!) of pain response in the brain - announced by the Radiological Society of North America on their 85th annual meeting. The data was also viewed at the Harvard Medical School which after the review announced: "The data is very impressive, this shows there really is something going on there".

    Many other scientific researches are already available. 

  • Wow, this is an old video, since then there are a lot of supporting scientific evidence showing the functionality of acupuncture, most notably fMRI imaging that clearly demonstrates brain responses to the appropriate treatment methods. More and more MDs refer their patients to OMDs (Oriental Medical Doctors), more clinics and hospitals employ acupuncturists and their local clinical trials show considerable reduction of time in healing.

  • Question: How can you examine someone with an MRI scan when he has needles stuck in him?

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  • I stick needles in my dick

  • @martyaus2905 We figured you would.

  • Aren't you seeking and unlock this 4,610+ years old hidden scientific facts of Acupuncture

    Now google it james chong pain free google sites

    If you're remain unconvinced, this has shown that you are know nothing about science but pretend to be one.

    Of cause you're entitle your opinions

    For hundred yrs of criticism such bad, dead, voodoo magic and snake oil salesman acupuncture science. Especially from those top most profession.

    Don’t you think TCM Acupuncture deserve an online apology

  • Present day knowledge of the placebo & endorphin release effects can't explain entirely how acupuncture works. I'd say it's more like a deep reflex mechanism involving trigger points & some yet unexplained non anatomical connection between distant parts. An uncle had a wisdom tooth extraction with ear acupuncture anesthesia in Switzerland a year ago. If you're looking for a real placebo effect, homeopathy would be the perfect example.

  • I had a terrible upper back injury, and all my doctor could offer were steroid shots or narcotic painkillers. I didn't want to do either, so I supplemented PT with chiropractic. It did nothing. I tried acupuncture as a huge skeptic, and when I walked out of the acupuncturist's office, I was standing upright and the pain was gone. Since then, it's the first thing I try for injuries. I don't know how it works, but I know it's better than steroids and narcotics!!

  • When I was a kid (maybe 5 or 6), I thought 'why can't somebody stick needles into one's nerves to block pain?' I later found out that somebody already had: acupuncture. It always seemed consistent with science that this mechanism should work to block pain. And this video proved me right: it's exactly how I predicted: there IS some core value to the principle of blocking nerve pain with needles, but all that other new-age chi-flow philosophy attached to it is unnecessary garbage and baggage.

  • When I was a kid (maybe 5 or 6), I thought "why can't somebody stick needles into one's nerves to block pain?" I later found out that somebody already had: acupuncture. It always seemed consistent with science that this mechanism should work to block pain. And this video proved me right: it's exactly how I predicted: there IS some core value to the principle of blocking nerve pain with needles, but all that other new-age chi-flow philosophy attached to it is unnecessary garbage and baggage.

  • Mr Shermer: you were "too easy" in your investigation. Don't go into the acupuncturist's office with some vague complaint. Wait until you get some serious pain: a urinary tract infection, severe rheumatoid arthritis inflammation, cancer - and then go to the acupuncturist and seek relief. That way, you will make a clear delineation between being sick vs being well.

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  • This guy is typical of ignorant skeptics , but fortunately for all of us, he is in the minority!

  • This clip is a disappointment! How does Shermer treat science and lucky-eastern-ancient-observat­ions on the same footing? Just because it works-sometimes-without-any-kn­own-explanations?? This is bullshit to me!

  • I have tried acupuncture before. It works.

  • Pseudoscientific bullshit. The mystisim and explanation of the acupuncturist directly contradict what we know to be the physical reality of the human body. Causing pain causes pain releaving chemicals to be produced. No one needed this hokey nonsense to tell them that. Acupuncture cannot and will not make a valid contribution to real medicine. People say it works? Well, people say that burning a witch will help the crop yield, so lets do that. It must be true...

  • @no2religions

    Well said! Unfortunately there are LOTS of gullible people out there...

  • Acupuncture is b.s. Or if you want to believe in it, just find some needles and do it on yourself for free instead of paying these freaks to do it!: )

  • stfu

  • I'd be willing to wager that more often than not, the spiritualist's approach to such issues is only successful when it's applied on suggestible minds. This isn't the case with modern medicine when dealing with illnesses for which doctors can honestly claim knowledge of how to administer treatment. Hats off to men like Dr. George Ulette who aren't afraid to "look behind the veil" to see what's really going on.

  • THE JOB OF ANY DOCTOR IS TO BULLSHIT YOU WHILE NATURE HEALS YOU. IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKE U FEEL GOOD, NOTHING ELSE...

  • @quadcatfly

    You exaggerate too far. Ever have your appendix rupture? How about carpal tunnel syndrome severe enough that surgery was needed? How about bone pain from cancer so severe that you would rather commit suicide than live through the pain?

    I don't disagree that many times a doctor doesn't know how to "fix" your problem right away or even over a long time, but to suggest that "THE JOB OF ANY DOCTOR IS TO BULLSHIT YOU... MAKE U FEEL GOOD, NOTHING ELSE..." is just wrong.

  • @quadcatfly I love youtube, you don't have to look far to see some truly idiotic posts. Generalization is the inept basis to all idiotic posts. You're mistaking nurses for doctors.

  • Qi is basically energy. According to the philosophy, everything is made from qi. Living things are kept alive by qi and everything have qi. which basically accurate, 1st law of thermodyanics, we eat food for energy and all matter have energy of some sort: GPE, CPE, KE, etc.. but, i am not a believer in this, just pointing out that it's quite cool that we have this idea back then.

  • no problem. Even if oriental medicine relies on kind of unexplained relations in many cases, Western medicine had the same for decades and it still can't cure simple flu. When you have a broken leg, need urgent treatment or you're in pain, go to the doctor. When you don't feel well and doctor say everything is ok, go and try acupuncture.

  • @Wyga23

    You are using a strawman argument. "Western medicine...still can't cure simple flu." you say and imply that since there is a disease process that can't be "cured" by ANY medicine from any culture, that western medicine is somehow lessened? Would you agree that western medicine does help deal with the flu in other ways? Such as symptom relief and not getting it in the first place by use of vaccine?

    Western medicine has more benefit than simply "urgent treatment/pain" as you suggest.

  • This time I can't agree with Michael. Oriental medicine shows the different approach to human mind and body. It is easy to criticise it because of different terminology. Western medicine is like the case of my cousin. He didn't feel well, but tests were ok, so doc said he was ok. He came back a year later feeling even worse, but tests were still ok. After one more year he went to the doctor and it was too late, he died of cancer 3 months later. Western medicine is like Shermer, no prove,

  • @Wyga23

    Medicine / diagnosis / treatment is not a perfect science like math and there will be times when things are missed for any number of reasons. To take your anecdotal story of missed Cancer and somehow say that Western medicine, or any "style" of medicine isn't effective, is illogical. If a person has a non-visual cancer, let's see how accurate the non-western method is compared to a simple biopsy.

    Sorry to hear about your cousin.

  • This is sickening. Even ignoring the whole bias (which they call skepticism), it's all lies.

    My dad woke up at 3am hurting really badly. Went to the hospital, got morphine 3 times (so the whole 'endorfin' argument makes no sense), got scanned with everything they had, was tested, and they didn't find anything wrong. Told him to take pain killers and laxatives, and if he was still hurting to come back in a week.

    Our acupuncturist knew what was wrong immediately simply by looking at his tongue.

  • @wygram I can tell you what's wrong with you. I don't even need to see your tongue. I just need to feel your money.

  • @hardinmichael1981 Yeah, unfortunately the hospital feeling copious amounts of money didn't manage to figure anything out, while the acupuncturist feeling a lot less money figured it out right away. She was correct, and wasn't guessing.

  • @wygram yes I suppose all it takes is an evening course in herbal medicine to understand the complexity of the human body.

  • @beforever TCMD schools are 4 years (full time) for the masters degree with 2 years clinical, then you have to pass a national board exam - you can only try five times in your entire life! - then an additional 2 years for the OMD (Oriental Medical Doctor) degree and year and a half to two years for Ph.D. This is very close to the same model as for Western MDs - except MDs have only three tires at the board exam.

  • @wygram Placebo does wonders.

  • @Scotty prove it

  • i cant wait to get this done

  • If we are good at anything it's deluding ourselves. I think Shermer and company did a great job covering this thing. We live in a natural world with real observable natural laws there's no such thing as the supernatural, magic or miracles. It's a beautiful world and it's all we need. Some things are real and some things are acts of our imaginations there is such a thing as fiction. I don't need fairies and miracles to see that the world is beautiful as it is. religion and the rest are myths.

  • @scotty yeah.. you live in this delusional world where you're dependent on pharmaceutical companies to keep you healthy.

    nature is the best way to be healthy.. if you take drugs, all you'll ever be doing is keep trying to get better. if you ever actually got totally healthy of pharmaceuticals, they'd be out of business.

  • @wygram The body itself is constantly working to either heal itself or keep itself in good working order. Modern medicine knows this medicines make us more comfortable,  allow us to continue our work , or provide our bodies with rest from our symptoms so we can heal. Medicines have proven in scientific tests to be helpful, in the case of some diseases they act to prevent illness, a fact, in others they kill the germs causing illness, antibiotics. This is good, modern medicine has helped us.

  • @wygram

    Please.... That's just nonsense. Drugs are not evil. They have been through numerous trials, and there are hundreds that can save your life in all sort of life threatening conditions, such as Tamoxifen which greatly increases survival rates in women hit by breast cancer. Studies have shown that acupuncture can be used to ease back pain I believe, but it didn't matter where you got stung or who did it.

  • this Michael Shermer is a total idiot.i guess he would not believe what ever he cant see!!!so human feeling are B.S because we CANT hold them in our hands...what a retard certainly the easiest way to make a buck in the Western World.the scientific crap...

  • Shermer is a total joke. This guy only accepts things that can be fit squarely into western tiny modern society look on life. Western Pharmaceutical Medicine is a failure at best. Drugs, drugs, and more drugs. He's just the kind of guy to burn witches and assert that the Earth is flat.

  • @mindcontrolv Western Pharmaceutical medicine isn't just drugs, drugs, drugs, but synthetic drugs! While they do their job in treating, they impose tremendous harm on other parts of the body in the form of side effects. According to a Canadian research drugs are somewhere in the 6-8th position of all causes of deaths. They do treat the conditions but the strong, harmful side effects gradually weaken other parts of the body - usually kidneys or the liver - which eventually leads to death.

  • @mindcontrolv actually,what he accepts is evidence. there's none to demonstrate that acupuncture works

  • @monicalimon if you take someone who can't do acupuncture, of course it's not going to work.

  • 6:12 My parents have that painting on the wall! Lol.

  • Unlike chiropractors and homeopaths, not many acupuncturists claim to treat infectious disease, cancer or do what surgery does. And though both are influenced by the past more than they'd like to admit, not many acupuncturists accept the various absurd theories and mythology of acupuncture any more than M.D.'s accept the mythology of 19th century medicine. I went to an M.D. who was also an acupuncturist and I was surprised at how powerful and effective acupuncture can be.

  • Acupunture is total BS...Anyone who says otherwise needs to do their own research.

  • @WestliFerZul dude your delusional, what an uneducated statement, please show some of this great research

  • @shifudan I am delusional? So says the one who says that an invisible force called "chi" affects health. Acupuncture works due to placebo. Sure, it works, but the concept behind it is total BS.

  • @WestliFerZul so what your saying is that because you dont know chinese language, so therefore the medicine is fake? logic at its finest! How about first answering which chi you refer to so we can break it down in western terms for you, is it gu chi, is it zang fu qi, is it da chi, etc etc? first we need to know what your talking about. just out of curioisty is the krebs cycle invisible to your eye? does it exist? can you see homeostasis? what makes the heart beat? some invisible force?

  • @shifudan Krebs cycle is invisible, but it is proven by science using SCIENTIFIC methods. The Chi isn't supported by science at all and therefore in the scientific realm, is total BS. Are you saying that the less technologically advanced ancient Chinese knows something scientific about Chi that we modern people don't? Cause if you do, then I shouldn't take you seriously anymore

  • @WestliFerZul what is chi? i dont know what you mean when you say chi? i mentioned their are many different types of "chi" , so saying a hippie word like chi does not help. Let me ask you this- if one of the chi basically is the krebs cycle, or if one chi is the digestion process etc etc, then would the medicine be valid? lets start with a basic "chi" which is called "yuan qi " this in translation is your dna basically.

  • @WestliFerZul So you deny the works of Einstein? Einstein did tremendous amount of studies on energy and laid down the foundation of its many laws. That is scientific study of energy at its best. Or are you telling me that you didn't know the Chinese character 'Chi' stands for energy? It consists of two so called 'radicals' the top (three lines) represents 'air' and the bottom part 'food'. This is how the ancient Chinese viewed energy generated in a humans/animals: air+food=energy (Chi).

  • @WestliFerZul Modern science also have no explain why running a low current electrical test on the skin shows sudden deep drops exactly at the acupuncture points. The same exact acupuncture points discovered and used over two thousand years ago are now clearly demonstrated to be 'special low resistant' points on the body yet modern medical science has no explanation to their significance. Do you then automatically deny their existence? If you can't prove their meanings then they don't exist?

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  • I'll give you the point you raised about death statistics. However that's only when you consider the fact that traditional medicine doesn't conduct open heart surgery, liver transplants or chemotherapy. You sir are a fool!

  • @mrchoochoohead wrong, look at stats from meds, and hospital infections and allergies to meds etc etc, the surgeries is a whole different ballgame. You sir are the fool,do some research. a 6 min doc appt and then given a bunch of prescriptions is not medicine. mixing meds no science behind ever mixing these meds, is that really responsible medicine? is their a study showing mixing celexa,prilosec, celebrex and some cholesterol med? every patient we see is on cocktail from their Doc?

  • How about this. Why dont you take Bullshit Detection 101. I don't need to study medicine to understand the scientific foundations of modern medicine. Nobody in their right mind would view modern medicine the way you do. Oriental medicine has as much credibility as exorcism and blood letting. When was the last time acupuncture sent soneones cancer into remission or reconstructed a shattered pelvis

  • @mrchoochoohead dont know about these, but i can tell you many surgeries i mysepf prevented by reliveing low back, neck, shoulder pain etc, acupuncture done correctly is a great form of medicine. No hocus pocus at all, just anatomy and phys and science, different language yes, but same physiology

  • @mrchoochoohead whats your point, nobody says acupuncture would do this? how about questions like can acu help frozen shoulder, can it help bad digestion, can it help back pain, can we release trigger points without injections(called ashi pts), can we treat most and muskuloskeletal problem, can trigger points(ashi pts) cause all sorts of organic issues? so why cant acu treat anything related to these? read about janet travell M.D, and see where acupoints lie on the body, gee is it an accident?

  • Wallace Sampson, M.D., You don't know what dangerous is!

    Perhaps you should compare the stats on death and other adverse effects of modern pharmaceutical and surgical interventions and compare them with those of acupuncture and Traditional Oriental Medicine.

    Then you will know what dangerous is.

  • @liverqiconstraint oh yeah well you what actual medicine does? it involves actually dealing with complicated biological systems. chi as a concept is ok if you want to believe in new age mumbo jumbo and burn incense everynight. but putting it into biological context is a nonsense

    and dont give me that rubbish about "how lot of pharmaceuticals are approved for use without really understanding how they work"

    what is "a lot" Most (and i mean all) are based upon knowledge of biology

  • @mrchoochoohead I find it strange when people like you have such strong opinions about subjects you don't understand. Go take pharmacology 101 and then take Oriental Medicine 101 before giving me a response. Until then you just sound like a fool.

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  • Wait, what?

    'we don't know how aspirin works?'

    Did he really say that and mean it?

  • @mrchoochoohead a lot of pharmaceuticals are approved for use without really understanding how they work.

  • It's amusing to read these idiotic comments like "science is all a sham" from people using a computer to communicate through the internet. Um . . . maybe the internet works through ancient chinese chi?

  • @jsampras3 Yes, it does in fact. Ching Chong Yin explained this years ago.

  • @ Wallace Sampson, M.D.-- acupuncturist are trained in diagnosis. Although their system of diagnosis seems rather odd to the western world and it's probably not as comprehensive and accurate as the western system; I dont know how accurtate thier diagnosis system is. You said they don't know what thier doing. I challenge you to explain how asprin releaves pain. Even though asprin is a commonly used drug accepted by western medicine, you will find no doctor who knows how asprin works in the body

  • @greyepistle " you will find no doctor who knows how asprin works in the body" have you heard  about something called chemistry?

  • @MANGOS487 oh good! you can explain exactly how asprin works in the body in detail! I've been waiting for this explination for a long time. Please do tell. XD

    PS: My class mates and i made salicylic acid(asprin) in class, though no explination was given on how asprin works in the body. the human sciences are not perfect.

  • @greyepistle I suggest that you simply don't have enough education in physiology and pharmacology. If you did, you would be able to understand the mechanisms that are considered responsible for the actions of aspirin as both an analgesic and anti-inflammatory.

  • @greyepistle By the way, you needed to acetylate the salicylic acid to obtain ASA. No, human sciences are not perfect. No one has claimed that science is or could ever be "perfect", as that is not what science is all about. There is a lot more than what you have though, that's for sure.

  • @TheSkepticUn Becasue you seem fairly intelligent, i'll level with you. The whole point of me posting was to critisize an "educated" doctor for presenting in such an uneducated fasion. Because i actually did research on the legitmacy of acupuncture, I knew that the doctor in the video knew nothing on the topic which he was speaking. i suspect that the whole point of the video was to discredit a practice he felt threatend by.

  • @greyepistle that is one of the stupiest and miinforme comment iv seen here,

    aspirin is a non steroidal class anti-inflamatory drug that work in the body by releiving inflamation,

    less inflamation =less pain here is how it goes

  • @lapmarty It may relieve inflammation, but on the other hand, it damages collagen, weakens blood vessels, thins the blood and contributes to the problems it treats. Rather than treat pain, we need to treat the cause.

    Woops! Medicine doesn't know what that means!

  • Damaged and pain-causing cells produce large quantities of an enzyme called cylooxygenase-2. This enzyme in turn produces a chemical called prostaglandin, which sends a message to the brain signaling that a specific part of the body is in pain. The chemical also causes the injured area to release fluids, causing it to swell or become inflamed. ASA (Aspirin) adheres to the cylooxygenase-2 and prevents it from producing prostaglandin. As a result, some of the pain

  • signals do not reach the brain and less pain is felt. Also, the inflammation is minimized due to the lack of prostaglandin production

    this is know by any doctor in the western world, as for acupuncture it is a old traditional medecine that rely on beleif,and plavebo effect,after many study the only effect it could have is the release of endorphin, in fact running sport pleasure, massage, sex and a bunch of other stuff does it to, as for the map of chi energy and point they are useless

  • @lapmarty cool

  • @lapmarty cool. however you didn't actually do any deeper research on the other spectrum of the debate and kinda made the same mistake as the doctor on the video:(. also, I never actually say acupuncture works. But thanks for your detailed explination, I really enjoyed it and learned somthing cool XD. im not a doctor nor do i practice acupuncture and do not seek to discredit either practices, just the doctor in that video.

  • @lapmarty In the last 15 years that I have used acupuncture, I have seen it work on cases that nothing else touched. How does it work? First, who cares? Secondly, studies have shown more than simple endorphin and enkephalin release....Before you knock something, go find out for yourself what it can do. People who poo poo things the most are usually know the least about that subject. My guess is that you fit into that category.

  • @Ronin6575 yes you seing it work is real proof of this, try publish this in a serious scientific publication, and really put the emphasis, on the I SAW IT WORK part cause it is really what is gonna convince all those scientific, get real will you, if you dont know how to argument get lost,

    who cares about the mecanics of a healing device, answer any serious scientific that wanna help, the day youl heal a diabetic who is insulino dependant, you will be able to say its more then placebo,

  • @lapmarty The latest studies ( there are many ) including tracking the meridians and acu points using simple electronic testing equipment similar to an ohm meter that will detect differences in electrical conductance on the skin. It has shown that acupoints are more or less sensitive than non acupoints. That aside, the Chinese have quite a lot of research on the effects of stimulating areas on the surface of the body and getting changes in pain sensitivity as well as internal function.

  • @lapmarty Actually scientific evidence supports the functionality and effectiveness of acupuncture, read my recent posts on MRI/fMRI image testing by major medical institutions - including Harvard Medical School.

    If you post messages without doing researches and supporting your thesis you do the same exact thing you're trying to stand up against and easy to disprove.

  • acupuncture like homeopathie and other pseudoscience, only work on bening condition, often teh kind that will go away on its own,

    headache, back pain, etc,,, real medecine on the other hand works whatever you beleive in it, or not

    like insulin, steroids, pain medication, they have been mesaeure trought double blinded study,

    and acupuncture have failed at every one of them, in fact putting needle anywhere as the same effect its been repeted over and over again

    get it

    PLACEBO

    ,

  • Funny how an ancient method is slowly being proven to work with modern devices and the 'brilliant mind' and 'know it all' individuals - such as this Dr. Wallace Sampson - are being proven wrong with their own devices.

    'The soft and yielding lives on. The hard and forceful dies." -Lao Tzu, Chinese philosopher ca. 550 BC.

  • as for knowing less on the subject, for somoene that takes invisible energy line that cross the body, for reference because somoene have tell you, (by the way wich chart you use cause i know acupuncture have not yet a single chart of meridian, seem like they couldnt even get their story straight among themself) you tell me that im teh one who know nothing, i know that acupuncture and other bullshit waist lots of people time and money

    ,

  • @greyepistle unlike acupuncture though, asprin is shown to work in double blind studies. Also, although doctors don't understand every reason aspirin works they do understand the pain and headache relief has to do with salicylic acid, the active ingredient in aspirin.

  • @bkstudio1990 actually, one of the other people who replied to my ranting has done a rather good job at explaining how asprin works in the body. Also, if memory serves me correctly the food and drug administration acknowledged the effectivness of acupuncture for headaches. But I may be wrong as apperantly my info wasn't as accurate as i first thought it to be and i really dont care about it enogh to follow it up. I'm not trying to prove or disprove asprin or acupuncture.

  • @greyepistle how aspirin works is clearly understood. It's in the cyclooxygenase (aka COX) inhibitor family--all NSAIDS. by inhibiting COX, prostaglandins are inhibited b/c the fatty acids (arachadonic acids) are prevented from converting into prostalandins. while prostalandins serve protective functions, they also produce pain and inflammation after cell injury.

  • @HisTruthbeUNKOWN not a complete placebo effect. Some treatments work just as effectively as eastern medicine. Yet others are just shamanism at its finest. Just like with all things there is not black and white just varying nuances and truths.

  • @redfurrymonster-- Your right, not a complete placebo effect. Evolution has produced a body that obviously heals very well all on it's own, without any outside help. The 'varying nuances and truths' take complete advantage of this......and your wallet. :)

  • @HisTruthbeUNKOWN did you know you just denied the existance of blood? blood is considered a type of chi. please educate yourself on a topic before commenting on it. it's what educated people do.

  • I know a physicist who is doing his disertation dermining the relationship between qi and blood. The liver effects emotion via melatonin. The kidney system via cortisol. The idea of a first mover creating action is a philisophical deficiency in European thought based on the Church. In reality these systems work in feedback loops connecting the organs and brain. Wei qi involves piezoelectricity and white blood cells. Enough of this is in English that you can start looking for yourself.

  • @8stepsifu thank you! that was an intelligent post.

  • @MomoTheBellyDancer Thats funny, because the phisics behind blood creation are of high interest to many in higher acamedic circles. Why is it those trained at Ivy league schools are intererested, while those with lesser education say that its not worth looking at. There you have the common idea that morality should block science. This is exactly why we lag..

  • @8stepsifu

    "blood creation"

    .. has nothing to do with qi, chi, ki or whatever.

  • @8stepsifu Physicist? Or physician? I don't imagine a physicist would do a dissertation on acupuncture, would he?

  • @8stepsifu too bad that you have no proof for what you are claiming

  • And this people has been a demonstration in TCM. I drank some alcohol on and empty stomach causing Liver Qi depression (which gave me colds hands) and stomach fire which resulted in me TROUNCING THE HELL out of people who pretend to be able to debate a topic they are underqualified to speak about.

    You see, Liver is a wood organ and goes with anger; like the anger I felt. But, as stimulating as it's been to vent my GB, I must say adieu till the next time. Hopefully a real champ will show up.

  • @TheShadowlin

    "Liver is a wood organ and goes with anger"

    No, the Liver is made of animal cells, like the rest of your body, and has nothing to do with wood. Also, anger lies in the brain. just like all your other emotions and impressions.

  • sigh. wood is a term that implies the season spring. As in activity.

    The Hun is intuition and roughly correlates to the emotional mind.

    The Hun also belongs to the Chinese Liver, not liver viscera.

    It's a philosophy, not an anatomy. If you want to comment on the terminology learn it first.

    I know more about the liver organ and the Chinese Liver than you can hope to know. Sigh. They make us learn all about the biomedicine at the same time, it's state law. Unless you are a Hepatologist, get lost.

  • @TheShadowlin ....and just in case you're still confused champ: cut+paste "patient.co.uk/doctor/Acupunct­ure.htm." into your browser and look at the evidence and medical papers available here in the uk. check how many say 'bigger trials needed', 'placebo', 'may help', 'more evidence needed' and 'not found to be effective'. mild pains and aches through placebo, maybe...any illnesses....urm no.

  • Fuck me Microsoft shouldn't have invented the alt-click synonym function!

    Just because you accept a faith as your chosen myth, whether it's science or otherwise, doesn't mean you are automatically right and everyone else wrong, even if you do use old, dead languages to make up your words.

    Earth to want to be wise-guys: you can't do double blind studies with acupuncture. There is no sham acupuncture: it's still acupuncture. There is no placebo in TCM, and if there were we'd use it as an herb.

  • And also there are laboratories that can prove smoking won't cause cancer and antibiotics can't keep people from infection. Hell you can prove anything with enough money and disprove anything by refusing to supply money. It doesn't change the reality that people get better.

    If you think Chinese people used AP for 3000 years despite it's uselessness... you should get your head examined. People are afraid of needles! What is wrong with your thinking? This YT is turning brains to mush. Sigh.

  • @TheShadowlin for the 100th time....science is NOT a faith. science is a process. it sets up a hypothesis and then seeks to disproves it to discover the truth, saying 'you can't double blind study acupuncture' is totally non-sequitor to your argument! it's no more than a god of gaps argument. you need to positively prove you claim with evidence. your arguments are wafer thin.

  • @knightm27 hey, numbnuts, it's not me that says so... it's science that says so. You can't double blind intervention therapies. Learn something first. Would you ask a heart surgeon to double blind test bypass surgery? Or a chiropractor?

    Think first.

    IF(sham acup==acup) THEN (pract doing acup. != blind) ELSE (you're too stupid to follow logic)

    { LEARN(something) FIND(life) STOP(talking about shit you don't understand)}

    end sub;

  • @TheShadowlin 1) thanks for the ad hominem, the two examples you gave 1) heat surgery WAS tested. time was spent over previous centuries by pioneering surgeons working with the bodies of deceased, animals, etc. to understand how the body worked and to test procedures. they didn't simply 'have a go' based on a phoney belief system. 2) chiropractors may be effective with back pain (sometimes) but little else and wouldn't be considered a science in the pure sense. in your words "think first"

  • Many afraid pain but need help by acupuncture. I got help from acuclips I bought from wwwacupunct.cieaura.com You can help yourself also

    

  • And of course you'll release endorfins if you use needles! But don't pay anybody to do it, do it yourself for free!

  • Really, how gullible are people to believe that every single thing like this is bullshit. What lives they must live. Everything makes sense to them , it's black and white. All explained by science and if not it can't be real. Thank big bang freaks of nature for the time we are born into.

    I bet when death knocks on the door it will be a different story.

  • This is the same as cutting...... people cut themselves, to release endorphins, to ease psychological and physical pain. If this is real, then prove it and collect your 1 million dollars from James Randi........ If you don't understand it..... then how do you know where to put the needle?.... simple, it's BOGUS. Spend your money at the tarot-reader if you are this gullible.

  • @sparky7718

    Mr Randi awaits your phone call....

  • @ScienceIsKnowledge Why would James Randi want to talk to me? I'm on his side. Acupuncture, dowsing, homeopathy, channeling, it's all bullshit.

  • @sparky7718

    LOl. Sorry dude. I agree with you.

    I was being facetious....

  • "Acupuncture Works"

    How would acupuncture work in refractory Vfib vs pharmacological intervention coupled with biphasic shock delivered transcutaneously? Please point me to a peer reviewed study concerning this simple question.

  • @docwondernuts Wow big words make you sound so smart.

    Answer this "me so smart." Why are Universities continually pumping out money to study it if it doesn't work? You know why? Because we have higher patient satisfaction rates and 3,000 years of peer reviewed research numbnuts... and our shit worked back when Europeans were killing witches to get rid of the plague, so suck it "vis a vis" your over-sized, pointless vocabulary.

  • If you slap your thigh for 5 minutes; you'll numb it; and no doubt release some endorphins. Same principle.

  • only beleive what you have opening explored. Some say meditation is fake. I ask, have you practiced for 10 years diligently? How can you speak then? But they always do. Most havent practiced for more than 20 minutes more than a few times. Like ice skating, if I cant get it right away then just quit. With inner art, its if I dont figure it out or have a "experience" immediately, then its not Real

  • micheal shermer is no different that any other charlatan.

    He makes a living convincing people that nothing is beyond our human understanding. What a joker. Just look at what he does here, tries to convince people a healing art that is thousands of years old has no basis. Shermer has sold his soul and obviously has an agenda. micheal shermer, you are the charlatan!

  • @cheobob, difficult to clarify points with limited space...but

    the authority, of course, is not by some broad enforcement.

    Its sway comes about by the faith that much of the population has in it's wisdom. And still there are ethical decisions in politics made based on scientific researches. I understand that the peer reviewing is intended to keep such things in check. I am hinting at more fundamental philosophical flaws.

  • Comment removed

  • @marblemill

    Well I certainly agree with the second half. Science is often used in biased situations by whoever is funding it. It's certainly not a religion though. Or based on any kind of authority.

    The peer review process makes sure there can be no authority, the material itself is the only authority.

  • @marblemill

    marblemill, have you read Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World? It's a great book, I highly recommend it to everyone. There is an unfortunately large amount of misinformation around us about science. I hope you can re-examine your points of view with a fresh and open mind.

  • Not only is this video heavily biased, it doesn't even explain Qi correctly according to the medicine. Pathetic. C-

    ---

    Folks... "sham" acupuncture is still acupuncture, it is not valid EVEN in western type studies of acupuncture, let alone in our own field.

    ---

    Finally, endorphins are a very small part of the explanation of TCM from a biomedical perspective... that is old research from the late 1980s... even for biomedicine.

  • Another thing I would like to add to this. Modern science only recently identified that one of the functions of the spleen is to generate red blood cells. Now interestingly you pick up the book 'Nei Jing' (The Yellow Emperor's Classics on Medicine) which is around 2,200-2,300 year old and it state there: 'Spleen is the manufacturer of blood'. What? Over 2,000 year old 'science' already discovered what we just did a few decades ago? Do you think back then they didn't know anything?

  • @blade0817

    Just because an ancient book got one thing right that means they were knowledgable? You have to take into account how many things they got wrong. Ancient Hindu texts claimed that there were many planets, not just our own. Western religions never mention this. Does that seriously make you think the ancient Hindus genuinely knew that?

  • @chebob2009 I am not talking about just that one thing, they have more. And also not comparing what was written down and not in the other but what was discovered back then compared to what was just discover by modern science today. With that. The ancient Chinese medical texts use a highly complex pulse diagnosis method that works, yet modern science today only take the heart rhythm/blood volume from it. Is this something they are going to discover say a 100 years from now?

  • ... concept for fortune telling, the Yin/Yang concept is very scientific. The ancient Chinese observed nature carefully and tried to find a common cause or basic law for all occurrences in the universe. The concluded that everything can be sub-divided into two basic 'forces or categories'. Cold/warm. Summer/Winter. Up/down. Day/night. Dark/light.

    The Yin and Yang words are simply words given to represent one side and the other. Nothing else. It was later adapted into medicine. That's all.

  • @blade0817

    One more thing. The I-Ching very scientifically used the Yin/Yang concept to explain nature. The used a solid line to represent Yang and a broken line to represent Yin. These then organized into 64 mathematical possibilities of unique combination, making the FIRST EVER RECORDED BINARY MATHEMATICS IN HUMAN HISTORY.

    Thank you Dr. Wallace Sampson for ridiculing yourself in front of the public. Your complete lack of knowledge on a subject that you criticize only discredits yourself!

  • At last I would also like to add that when I first watched this video, statements such as 'The most ridiculous idea the Yin and Yang ...' - by Wallace Sampson upset me but then I realized he is the perfect example of the problem why Western medicine does not accept Eastern medicine: the desire for understanding.

    What is the Yin and Yang concept and where does it come from? It was first recorded in the 3,000 year old book called the I-Ching (Book of Change). Although the book uses the....

  • With technological advancements 'science' is slowly verifying the functionality of acupuncture. The greatest results are show with fMRI (Funcional MRI) brain scans that show the area of brain activated which respond to the area treated in the body. For example puncturing points traditionally used to treat eye disorders activates the visual cortex of the brain. Points used for analgesia leads to the deactivation of the frontal area of the brain.

    Functionality of acupuncture is being verified.

  • The whole Chi thing with the soul. I agree there is something there, and it's called "wishful thinking".

  • @Mattman003 Yeah... 64 hexagrams based on binary math=wishful thinking, like 64 codons in DNA=wishful procreating.

    Jesus people think and research before you open your mouths. If you don't know anything on the subject just admit you don't and shut your pie hole.

    Binary math is the BASIS OF MODERN COMPUTING YOU DOLT.

  • @TheShadowlin Too bad for you this video is on Acupuncture. I understand your confusion and frustration. I was clearly not addressing "binary mathematics"...now go find your medication and think happy thoughts.

  • People NEED to stop saying "science cant explain everything" True... Science cant explain everything. But people that say that bullshit dont understand how much science DOES explain. Forexample we can build cars. Imagine how many sciences are needed to build a car. From digging metals out of the ground to the finer parts all working together. If that isnt enough, humanity has 2 working cars on Mars.

    Do you know what they call "alternative medicine" that actually works ? They call it medicine.

  • @Janusha Amen to that!

  • It's a Placebo Effect. If someone were asleep and we applied Acupuncture and removed it, once they wake up they would still report pain.

  • @SamonMarquis again that is a western term. We don't have placebos in TCM because the number one cause of disease in TCM is... duh... the mind.

    Congratulations you just proved TCM worked with your asinine comment.

    wait, I know that went over your heads.

    TCM says disease starts with the mind-->placebo=mind trickery-->AP=placebo-->AP cures mind.

    What part of "comparing apples to oranges" don't you get? More like apples to steak.

  • If you're lacking chi or chi-deficient, I have a bags full of the stuff in my backyard. I'm talking pure grade-A mother pearl chi I brought back personally from northern Hunan province. Had to smuggle it through customs, so it's expensive but it's WORTH IT. You can never have enough chi, right?

    You fucking imbeciles. Sorry, that just slipped out.

    To learn more, please check out this video: watch?v=pp5eiHUdwb4

  • @sincristo you should slip it back in because it wasn't any good.

    And btw - pearl is a TCM herb so basically you just used a euphamism that turned out to be true... making you another class A jackass wanting to be funny. And if you had pearl it is an expensive herb. Sorry all you have is a bag of sadness to go with your hate and bashing-via-ignorance-pretendi­ng-to-be-intelligence.

  • I think more study is needed. The mind is a powerful thing and it maybe that the mind beleives acuppuncture works.

  • lots of research in China, why would they translate it for the savages outside of the middle kingdom? Its far more than endorphins.

  • @8stepsifu whoops... you should stop there, you are not helping us.

  • Heaving du 14 raises WBC, sp6 stimulates RBC production. Most points It work via nictirc oxide and has actions on piezoelectricity and wound healing. Others work on a specific nerve networks. Du 4 lies along the adrenal plexus and has actions on the adrenal gland. Heat is a major componenet of acupuncture, as are surgical technqiues. Motor points, dermatomes and chiropractics were originally from China. If you are looking for knowlege, this should give you a starting point.

  • As for Qi it is not a force nor only energy. It is also the principles that bind energy, the math, the mind that ponders them, and the computer that computes them.

    Qi is not able to be reduced to a constituent part... and that is good.

    Besides, most people do not know this but modern quantum science is showing reductionism to be a false idol anyhow, the more reduced the weirder and less sensible things get... most people could not believe the premises of physics which have to be taken with faith

  • Well nothing in physics has to be taken on faith. While there are incredibly weird results in quantum mechanics, they're all repeatedly testable.

  • @chebob2009 I'm sorry that healing people is inconveniently unrepeatable, what with the person being fixed and all and impossible to reproduce the EXACT variables at the time of treatment. Especially given that our medicine does not live under the fantasy that the experimenter does not affect the experiment.

    Our medicine says 1 dz 1000 patterns 1 pattern 1000 dz's. If you want simple, study ... iron. They've got that process almost down now, don't they? You'd be good at it.

  • Because that's how its come about. it's developed from that study of points. It's valid if you see the point that they came across this considering they didnt have brain scanners.

  • @dummbatz48 your ignorance is only matched by your candid biases. grow.