On the other hand if the Soviets would start arresting commanders of Home Army in Warsaw, after it alone liberated the capital, it wouldn't go unnoticed by the Word. Polish leaders were ready to make a "political gesture" in that way, but not by sacrificing all of their subordinates and civilian population. This was not the plan. They made a strategical mistake of not foreseeing the hold of Soviet offensive, however they were certainly not a madmen thinking that it is a "time to day".
@ursusplacidus Of course it is very easy to criticise more than sixty years later and I have had the benefit of this much hindsight. However given what had happened in Wilno then I find it difficult to assume that the leaders of the revolt believed the Soviets would allow them to get away with it. On the other hand no-one then knew that the USSR intended to occupy all of Central Europe.
The goal of Uprising was obviously to liberate the city before entrance of Red Army and to greet Soviets as representatives of legal Polish authority in capital of the country. Home Army command was counting that Soviets wont be able to act in Warsaw in the same manner as in eastern cities of Wilno (Vilnius) and Lwów, which where considerate by Soviets as 'their" because where occupied by them before German invasion on USSR, beside western opinion never even herd about those cities.
I think that WU was very important. It stopped soviet maraton (for 63 days) to capture whole Germany before allies. Stalin plan was to capture whole GErmany and make it satelite country and having whole Poland and surrounded by communist countries he could hold it strongly. Later having only half of Germany Stalin did not even think to include Poland as a soviet republic in USSR. And speakign about deaths on Polish side, only smaaaal % are soldiers, coz germans were killing civs block by block.
@Guruma This is an interpretation I have heard in Poland about the Ostwall as well but it does not bear up to closer study. The Soviets had massively extended their supply lines which were coming from what is roughly today the border between Belarussia and Russia. The division of Germany had already been decided upon and the Soviets did pull out of areas not assigned to them, for example in Austria and Denmark so it did not stop them taking all of Germany.
@alanheath If you didnt win 100%, you just take from table only whats yours. Thats why Soviets left Denmark etc. Their main goal was to secure northern plain in Europe that is "corridor to Moscow" without natural borders (Germany, Poland, Belarus etc.). Stalin didnt hold up to decisions made earlier by Churchil and Roosevelt and Stalin, for example there werent any true elections in Poland and Poland was occupied - not that usa and uk leaders ever thought that Stalin would leave Poland free...
The attitude of Roosevelt is quite shocking. He believed that he could 'handle' people and what may have worked in government in the US in the 1930s failed completely with Stalin. Undoubtedly it was American arms which led to the victory against Nazi Germany but it was the duplicity of the American president that led to 50 years of communist occupation in central Europe.
Brilliant as usual and a coincidence because I have recently bought Norman Davies's Rising '44. If reviews are anything to go by it should be a good read. Roosevelt was remarkably accommodating towards Stalin. It is said that at Tehran over dinner Stalin suggested that 50,000 German military leaders should be summarily executed following the war. Roosevelt allegedly gave Stalin assurances of full U.S. cooperation. Only Churchill intervened stating that he nor Britain would not accept it.
@Number7smokesForEver I have got this book and I am not so keen on it. The first thing that really winds me up is the way he spells Polish cities. He is not giving a lesson on Polish pronunciation but writing a history book and if anyone seeks places like Kieltse or Chestohova on the map then they are not going to find them. Certain things such as the massacres in Wola are passed over very quickly although there is a lot on the diplomatic aspects.
On the other hand if the Soviets would start arresting commanders of Home Army in Warsaw, after it alone liberated the capital, it wouldn't go unnoticed by the Word. Polish leaders were ready to make a "political gesture" in that way, but not by sacrificing all of their subordinates and civilian population. This was not the plan. They made a strategical mistake of not foreseeing the hold of Soviet offensive, however they were certainly not a madmen thinking that it is a "time to day".
ursusplacidus 8 months ago
@ursusplacidus Of course it is very easy to criticise more than sixty years later and I have had the benefit of this much hindsight. However given what had happened in Wilno then I find it difficult to assume that the leaders of the revolt believed the Soviets would allow them to get away with it. On the other hand no-one then knew that the USSR intended to occupy all of Central Europe.
alanheath 8 months ago
The goal of Uprising was obviously to liberate the city before entrance of Red Army and to greet Soviets as representatives of legal Polish authority in capital of the country. Home Army command was counting that Soviets wont be able to act in Warsaw in the same manner as in eastern cities of Wilno (Vilnius) and Lwów, which where considerate by Soviets as 'their" because where occupied by them before German invasion on USSR, beside western opinion never even herd about those cities.
ursusplacidus 8 months ago
I think that WU was very important. It stopped soviet maraton (for 63 days) to capture whole Germany before allies. Stalin plan was to capture whole GErmany and make it satelite country and having whole Poland and surrounded by communist countries he could hold it strongly. Later having only half of Germany Stalin did not even think to include Poland as a soviet republic in USSR. And speakign about deaths on Polish side, only smaaaal % are soldiers, coz germans were killing civs block by block.
Guruma 1 year ago
@Guruma This is an interpretation I have heard in Poland about the Ostwall as well but it does not bear up to closer study. The Soviets had massively extended their supply lines which were coming from what is roughly today the border between Belarussia and Russia. The division of Germany had already been decided upon and the Soviets did pull out of areas not assigned to them, for example in Austria and Denmark so it did not stop them taking all of Germany.
Thanks for the comment all the same!
alanheath 1 year ago
@alanheath If you didnt win 100%, you just take from table only whats yours. Thats why Soviets left Denmark etc. Their main goal was to secure northern plain in Europe that is "corridor to Moscow" without natural borders (Germany, Poland, Belarus etc.). Stalin didnt hold up to decisions made earlier by Churchil and Roosevelt and Stalin, for example there werent any true elections in Poland and Poland was occupied - not that usa and uk leaders ever thought that Stalin would leave Poland free...
Guruma 1 year ago
@Guruma I know perfectly well that Churchill never expected a free Poland although it would seem that Roosevelt did believe this.
alanheath 8 months ago
great video again,your knowledge is amazing i am learning more with your videos with each one you post.
philpotno7 1 year ago 5
love your wwII videos....you do a great job at this
rich737 1 year ago 7
@rich737 Thank you very much - that is very nice to hear!!
alanheath 1 year ago
The attitude of Roosevelt is quite shocking. He believed that he could 'handle' people and what may have worked in government in the US in the 1930s failed completely with Stalin. Undoubtedly it was American arms which led to the victory against Nazi Germany but it was the duplicity of the American president that led to 50 years of communist occupation in central Europe.
alanheath 1 year ago 7
Brilliant as usual and a coincidence because I have recently bought Norman Davies's Rising '44. If reviews are anything to go by it should be a good read. Roosevelt was remarkably accommodating towards Stalin. It is said that at Tehran over dinner Stalin suggested that 50,000 German military leaders should be summarily executed following the war. Roosevelt allegedly gave Stalin assurances of full U.S. cooperation. Only Churchill intervened stating that he nor Britain would not accept it.
Number7smokesForEver 1 year ago 6
@Number7smokesForEver I have got this book and I am not so keen on it. The first thing that really winds me up is the way he spells Polish cities. He is not giving a lesson on Polish pronunciation but writing a history book and if anyone seeks places like Kieltse or Chestohova on the map then they are not going to find them. Certain things such as the massacres in Wola are passed over very quickly although there is a lot on the diplomatic aspects.
alanheath 1 year ago 5
another brill excerpt
beararms2 1 year ago 4
@beararms2 I do my best!!
alanheath 1 year ago
@beararms2
and that shows mr .... keep it up
thanks
beararms2 1 year ago 6