Sam Harris Religious Moderates problem with believing in a immoral god

[gibsonfan871]

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[muteskutes1]

religious moderation makes no sense. Saying that I'm moderately religious is like saying I'm almost or slightly pregnant. You either are religious or not. You either accept all that your religion/god instruct you to do and make it part of every day, every minute, every second of your life, or you reject it altogether. Neither the Bible/Koran etc nor the Church allows any religious moderation. So the people that are not zelous believers and followers are actually disguised non-beleivers/agnostics

[mestrini]

It's so good to hear an American saying "Nuclear" instead of "Nucular"

I thank thee in the name of science and education Sam Harris.

[GiDaOne]

I have great respect for Sam Harris, but he is wrong on two accounts here. First, the Luke 19 reference is taken out of context. The words are from a character in a parable he was describing. Secondly, fundamentalists actually have a very bad knowledge of the Bible in general. They have typically a very skewed dogma based on a narrow and superficial interpretation of certain verses in the Bible. They ignore the fact that there are in fact many different views on such matters in the Bible itself.

[Youlube32]

So just because I'm a moderate, I don't read my Bible like the fundamentalists do? I feel Harris here, I really do but he should have thought about what he said near the beginning. It isn't that moderates don't read the Bible, it is that we respond differently to what it says, knowing that not everything within its pages are universal, inerrant, or even from the mouth of God for that matter.

[ashman165]

@Youlube32: sorry, when you hear someone say "read" you should in your mind add the words "for comprehension" to make it more clear what they're saying. Of course he realizes that moderates don't take what they read seriously, but it's also a fair point that a substantially high number of them do not read the bible. I know very few Christians who've read it cover to cover, but there they are claiming a belief in what it says. And if you can ignore parts of it as stupid, why not the rest?

[Youlube32]

@ashman165 Fair enough. It's not that I ignore parts as stupid, it's just that I've read into those parts and why they were written in the first place. If we are talking about the Old Testament, I could show you places where one sect of Israel writes something to make a mockery of them, or places where something was written with an entirely political purpose in mind. I could also show you other places in the Bible where the author is sincere and pouring out his heart with no ill motive.

[ashman165]

@Youlube32: I don't particularly care that an author is sincerely pouring out his heart when what he's saying is immoral. I haven't a moment of my life to waste in the way of trying to divine the sincerity of one who is promulgating, on pain of death, the forced extermination of entire peoples of the world, condoning rape, slave holding and subjugation of more than half the world's population (women in this case) as property. Sorry, the occasional nice thing isn't recompense for that.

[Youlube32]

@ashman165 I was more or less referring to people who were crying out in pain and suffering or rejoicing when fate benefitted them, which I don't know how one could consider that 'immoral" but that's fine I guess. You might see it as a waste of life, but I have never thought it so. To each is own, whatever works for you works for you. Plus, if I were not in church on Sunday morning I would be sleeping, and I hardly see an extra hour of sleep worth despairing over.

[ashman165]

@Youlube32: well, it's at least honest of you that you freely admit you pick and choose what to believe, which means that you wear your Jesus blinders. That's fine I suppose, and it's progress of a kind. Now, to get you to ignore the minority of your religion where the good things are promoted and instead to urge to think for yourself . . .

[xn117]

i don't like that he is walking around.. he should be sitting.

[marcotai]

This guy is a perfect example of someone

who is using his own faith (in this case :atheism)

in order to spread hate toward religions.

He still doesn't have any idea how many religious

people were killed in the name of "atheism".

He is still trapped in the same trap that he blames

others (religious people) to be in! LOL

But of course he can't see that.

[Zookeeper1983]

@marcotai Atheism is not faith. It is not even a philosophical position.It is simply a lack of belief in the propositions of theism. Therefore atheism cannot motivate anyone to do anything. Stalin didn't kill millions because he was an atheist - he did it because he was a communist. The two things have no necessary relation. About spreding hated: Calling Harris' well-argued criticism of religion hatred, speaks volumes about the special treatment religious people feel entitled to.

[jonwalksred]

@Zookeeper1983 I agree with your general point. However, I must object to your description of Stalin. He did not kill "because he was a communist". He killed because he was an ego-maniacal psychopath. A condition in no way related to a political or religious stance. I would also argue that TRUE Atheism should in fact be defined as philosophical; the difference is not inconsequential, as I will try to explain at least from my own experience...

[jonwalksred]

...I grew up without religion and therefore could have been considered Atheist or at least Agnostic. However, in good conscience I could not have claimed either title. Without religion or even a brief consideration for 'the big question', a more apt description would possibly have been ignorant. And this is where I believe philosophy, and of course science, should be inseparable with True Atheism. Otherwise, I see no moral advantage. Atheism would too be based on inculcation and/or ignorance.

[sparrow111260]

@jonwalksred

Atheism is a statement about belief - meaning a lack of belief in a deity. It is a combination of the prefix "a-" meaning "not or without" and "theism", meaning "belief in the existence of god or gods".

Agnosticism is a statement about knowledge - that is, whether you have knowledge of fact about something or not.

So I'm not sure if I agree with "philosophy" - for me atheism is only a description about my belief - like "the car is blue" - is a description about the colour.

[jonwalksred]

@sparrow & Ashman You've misunderstood my point. I am not, and nor would or could I, dispute your definitions of Atheism. I am merely trying to say that, for me, personally, it is a lot more than a statement about belief or lack thereof. Again, I feel it is what Atheism should espouse. If we haven't considered the all important question through science and reason, we can't be too proud. This is obviously why Hitchens, Harris et al, often resist the word Atheist. It's not an adequate description.

[jonwalksred]

Let us not be obscured by this point. Can we agree that Atheism, or whatever label we assume, 'should' be about more. I do not want to minimize why we think and feel the way we do. It's not an uninformed conclusion. The deduction has been reached via research, scientific inquiry, reason and philosophy. At least it has for me, and I maintain, it should for us all. It separates us, and must do so. Otherwise, as I previously stated, it negates our advantage and a large one clearly exists.

[ashman165]

@jonwalksred: to follow your reasoning here for a moment with respect to the ignorance bit, do you think that people who are ignorant of a thing are while still ignorant of it either a.) actively believing in it, or b.) not actively believing in it. If it's a, then knowledge isn't tied to belief, and if it's b, then the person you describe is definitionally an atheist. Agnostics, too, are atheists by definition; consider that to be an atheist all one need do is not believe in god/gods.

[sparrow111260]

@marcotai

Whether you like it or not, more people have been killed in the name of god, than even in the name of satan.

And many of these people who were killed in the name of god, were probably very religious too.

The crimes of religious people against religious people, far exceed anything atheism has done - in both amount killed and barbarity - and that is just a matter of history.

Nothing Sam Harris has said is technically wrong.

[marcotai]

Is this guy giving the speech believing that his

reasoning come from a well balanced chemical

molecules in his brain?

LOL 

[devonAnon72]

@marcotai

are you referring to sam harris's body thetans? lol he's not a scientologist like you are.....muaha ha ha

[supersmash43]

Religious moderates are hypocrites too.

[JoeyWillSeeAgain]

the inqusition has been exaggerated into legend

[uberjim83]

@JoeyWillSeeAgain I don't quite see why the Christians who recorded it would be prone to exaggerating their own atrocities. If you think it's too horrible to be true, look at the Islamic theocracies in the modern world. The only thing stopping the Church from killing off nonbelievers is that it no longer has the power.

[alexrush55]

There are plenty of disturbing passages in the Bible, why did Sam need to take Luke 19:27 out of context? It's a quote from a character in a parable, not a commandment from Jesus. A Christian follower would have to really twist that and ignore counter commands to justify murdering non-believers. Sam has a strong enough argument, he doesn't need to spin. First time I've seen him do it.

[selfsenter]

so his whole lecture on why religion is extreme is bcz its against gay?

lol..

[dan46and2]

I wish I had friends like Sam to hang out with in my daily life. :( But I'm glad he's out there doing a good job, keep it up Sam!

[GrE8LakEs]

justice and the bible shouldn't influence each other, sadly, that happened a lot back in the days. in the western world, today that isn't really possible any more. to me, church is so open hearted that you can go to church with blue hair, being gay or whatever.

(atleast here in germany)

The problem with religion is that there are old rules that are taken serious by members of the specific religion, although they're much rather a graphic description or too old and not be considered (e.g. gays)

[mewvies]

When a standard is proven false, what is there then to uphold?

People can believe what they want, but I think the main argument here in this video is that they should at least be honest with themselves. "We are not those who separate the values of our minds from the actions of our bodies."

[mewvies]

I will grant that the Bible doesn't condone violence in the same way the Koran does, but the mindset of negativity toward people who don't believe the same way does pave the way for inherently violent people to act out with some sense of justification.

In short, I think Mr. Harris is arguing that if this justification was done away with, many of these problems would diminish.

[uberjim83]

@mewvies You really should read the OT. God personally kills more people and with less reason than any of the genocidal maniacs of the twentieth century, and that's not counting the things he told his worshippers to do (one fun example is the wholesale murder of every inhabitant of the land he promised them). He doesn't do this much in the NT, though he does make a promise that he will come soon and kill everybody left on Earth.

[mewvies]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, because I used to think the same way and stopped because I couldn't define my standards, so maybe you could help. The Bible (and though I haven't read them, from what I understand, Jewish and Islamic texts are the same way) explicitly says that homosexuality is wrong, that not calling on a specific god is wrong, that questioning authority is wrong, etc.

[GrE8LakEs]

i dont know why this man stirs up hatred against religion, atheism probably isnt much better "let the logic reign" etc.

im against bombers and suiciders, im not against gays or science and guess what? im believing in god AND im christened! plus, i dont believen everything the pope says, i just considere it a valued arguement and think about it instead of saying "thats god stuff and has nothing to do with reality" stop being so ignorant

[GrE8LakEs]

i dont know any christian, not a single one that says gays should be punished, nor should anyone be slayed who isnt in christianity, nor do i know any christ who wants childs to love death

[GrE8LakEs]

you have to read it from bottom to top, sorry for the lot of text :)

[GrE8LakEs]

back in the days getting the right for free press etc gave people that feeling of being free. nowadays nearly noone really feels free, but gets lost in discussions and desperately wishes to find a sense in life, many people say the sense of life is progress... whatever im not trying to answer that question now.

[GrE8LakEs]

are we free? we can buy stuff in the supermarket, speak up, tell our mates what we think about them, even can tell out bosses, we can elect our government, can come up with new ideas that might change the society. In my opinion thats good, but it doesnt make me free, its rights i need! but i think you have to feel freedom, you still have to get free, you dont get born as a free person. your own thoughts make you free, your feelings towards life give you the real feeling of being free.

[GrE8LakEs]

"don't let the crowds earn their own food, they might get to know what freedom really is", i want you to think about what you call freedom, sure china isnt free, in a political definition at least, in western tables and if you ask poor chinese people who dont fear to tell the truth, theyll say they arent free.

[GrE8LakEs]

(by the way, the church defends human rights and that sort of stuff alot, go on blaming it for being a religion and for corrupt leaders in the past and you will make the way free for more corruption in the economy, i swear to god ( ;-) )thats what would happen)

[GrE8LakEs]

WW II started because germany was poor and extreme thoughts occoured, now theres democracy, thanks to america. just think about it

maybe you shouldnt blame god and "some sort of" faith, but start to think about human nature, philosophy what helps people to think more moral

[GrE8LakEs]

i believe in god, i believe in science, i believe that you should seperate science and the bible, for sure it has nothing to do with each other, comparing textes is just stupid

all this talking about an "immoral god" and "insane men in faith" makes little sense, since your way of getting rid of such is just as insane and immoral. maybe you should rather think about how to prevent that people have so little education, money or reputation that they think they have to go extreme

[GrE8LakEs]

I dunno what that atheist-trend is about. as fas as i see its all about evidence, logic and proof

maybe you should think about that people want to believe in god, normal, sane people, even your grandma. It helps to enjoy life, and whenever you want to philosophy you can think about god or if you dont want to: you dont have to

[wintershadows]

Sam Harris does a great job here.

[blaziermissy]

Culture is lagging so far behind our knowledge.

insane primacy....

Some people are so accustomed to suffering, they don't even know they are suffering. In this regard, there's some truth to the old cliche, "Ignorance is Bliss."

[jameshanley40]

@insaneRemo

You say "there are people who need something to believe in" and "when you go to destory something, fantacism occurs where the concept of no-tolerance becomes destructive."

insaneRemo, There are different causes of true belief.. which you seem to call "fanaticism". One big cause is the stupidity of moderates, compared to the more honest "extremists". And they choose the latter.

Moderacy is so intellectually weak, that it encourages true belief which encourages extremism.

[jameshanley40]

@InsaneRemo

Really the average person or even the above average person, isn't capable of critiquing religion like sam harris. And they won't learn anything from him. And sam is about dialogue not bashing.

If people are based/harassed in the workplace, over their beliefs, then they can deal with that legally.

I'd have to see sam's comment about not tolerating, in its context. From what i've heard of him, he just means not accepting uncritically.

Can you give me an example of a law change?

[jameshanley40]

Sam harris wants more rational thinking, and is against dogma generally..a bit different from some other atheists that he sits with. He criticises moderates too 'cos they are the most irrational of the lot..

With any of these guys though, if you don't like what they have to say, you can choose not to listen to them. Turn off your tv set. They aren't trying to force people out of their religion against their will / by the sword. So no comp to hitler there. Hitler didn't chk rel belief

[InsaneRemo]

@jameshanley40 They aren't trying to force people out of their religion? Where is your rationaliy and actually looking at things without personal bias?

You do understand there was an interview with Harris, where he states people shouldnt tolerate meaning attack moderate religion for the greater good of humanity?

He isn't leaving religion alone, he is attacking religion, which is reinforced through his book as well as his various speechs alongside other things.

[dopejoel]

If you define faith so broadly as to mean confidence, then yeah we have have that.

But, the confidence one might have in a cure for cancer or that a chair will hold them is not the same as the confidence a christian scientist has in the power of prayer when neglecting his or her child of modern day medicine.

Some people are confident because of evidence.

Religious faith is confidence despite the lack of evidence or despite the evidence which might suggest something to the contrary.

[InsaneRemo]

@dopejoel There are some christian scientest who agree that it's wrong and inhumane not to give a child modern medicine since religious prayer doesn't work. However, you should keep in mind not all religious faith does that.

You have made sterotypical assumption due to numbers, history as well various modern organstions.

[nigtastic1]

You completely missed my point.

I never suggested that ALL CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS HAVE THE EXACT SAME THEOLOGICAL OPINIONS.

I used that example to illustrate my point....which you did not get or refute.

Having faith, if defined as to mean that one holds a confident belief, is something we all have. Obviously. But, when you ask a scientist why he has a confident belief or 'faith' in the germ theory of disease, he will say because of the sound EVIDENCE. Making that belief justified.

[nigtastic1]

@InsaneRemo This is Dopejoel by the way.

If you were to ask a christian scientist why he or she has a confident belief in the power of prayer. They could not point to evidence. They could only say ' I have faith because god demands it'. They are confident just because they are 'suppose' to be. It's not a sound or justified belief.

Therefore, for one to say "well faith is something we all have!" they are failing to acknowledge those differences.

[InsaneRemo]

@nigtastic1 True, I apoglise for the misunderstanding. I agree that there is a difference but I disagree with moderate religion shouldn't be tolerated.

Otherwise, we would have to kill the human race for the potential to cause harm, which can be seen throughout history for the greater good.

[nigtastic1]

dude this isnt dopejoel so dont come commenting my shit talking to me like you know who the fuck i am. its people like you that makes this world a horrible place. only because you just go commenting other peoples shit like you know who they are seriously grow the fuck and gtfo

[InsaneRemo]

@nigtastic1 Indeed? So I should shut the hell up and go away? Despite, the fact that what Harris is saying affects my life as well as society?

You will love china than where there is no freedom of speech nor freedom of thought for that matter either.

I am agaisnt religious intolerance and what the china goverment does but you're right...I make the world a horriable place since I have no idea about anything etc the crusades and timenan square

[nigtastic1]

Bitch, i eat Chinese all day everyday. I SHIT! on china and their silly laws about thought crime. I make North Korea look like a silly little day care for bitch ass niggas like you . You dont know who i am or where im from and what i go through everyday so like i said gtfo ass monkey. You Godless unworthy of heaven going strait to hell ass hat.

[dopejoel]

@nigtastic1 lol sorry, I was using my friends profile earlier and accident.

[bibleisfake]

You really think you can intimidate anyone? You're nothing but a street thug wannabe.

[nigtastic1]

SHIIIIIIIIIIIT you honestly dont know who the fuck i am

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

The first religious sense of faith is a type of belief, specifically belief without clear evidence or knowledge. Christians using the term to describe their beliefs should be using it in the same way as Paul: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." [Hebrews 11:1] This is the sort of faith Christians often rely upon when confronted with evidence or arguments that would disprove their religious beliefs.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

This sort of faith is problematic because if a person really does believe something without evidence, even weak evidence, then they have formed a belief about the state of the world independent of information about the world. Beliefs are supposed to be mental representations about the way the world is but this means beliefs should be dependent upon what we learn about the world; beliefs shouldn't be independent of what we learn about the world.

[InsaneRemo]

@qaplatlhinganmaH Depends on the type of evidence. What person might consider evidence, you would call trash then might try to pove them incorrect while another would try to prove them correct.

However, I have belief the sun should rise tomorrow. On the otherhand, I have belief that people should help others which is against evolution due to the fact reducing our survivial.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

If a person believes something is true in this sense of "faith," their belief has become separated from facts and reality. Just as evidence plays no role in producing the belief, evidence, reason, and logic can't disprove the belief. A belief that is not dependent on reality also can't be refuted by reality. It's also arguably why it's so easy for faith to become a motivation for committing unspeakable crimes.

[InsaneRemo]

@qaplatlhinganmaH That's why people should have moderation faith. To say religion needs to be destroyed due to the atrocious crimes commited in their name for the greater good sounds like an intellectual war, which is a motivation for religion to retalite back at athiest who won't leave moderats alone.

Yes, moderate isnt religion but it is improving. To say no is denying reality and you start to justify crimes that you are against.

[dopejoel]

@InsaneRemo It's nice to be able to have gentle and respectful discourse with fellow youtubers. But yeah, I am not for suppressing religion and do believe is reasonable tolerance.

[livvidd]

reddit ftw!!

[chachieb]

I never knew about Augustine and Aquinas, as well I never considered the new testament/inquisition thing.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

The first religious sense of faith is a type of belief, specifically belief without clear evidence or knowledge. Christians using the term to describe their beliefs should be using it in the same way as Paul: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." [Hebrews 11:1] This is the sort of faith Christians often rely upon when confronted with evidence or arguments that would disprove their religious beliefs.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

This sort of faith is problematic because if a person really does believe something without evidence, even weak evidence, then they have formed a belief about the state of the world independent of information about the world. Beliefs are supposed to be mental representations about the way the world is but this means beliefs should be dependent upon what we learn about the world; beliefs shouldn't be independent of what we learn about the world.

[InsaneRemo]

I agree with faith being refedined to suit the world. What I don't agree is saying faith is the cause of all problems since faith has led to some discoveries but oh no lets forget that.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

If a person believes something is true in this sense of "faith," their belief has become separated from facts and reality. Just as evidence plays no role in producing the belief, evidence, reason, and logic can't disprove the belief. A belief that is not dependent on reality also can't be refuted by reality. It's also arguably why it's so easy for faith to become a motivation for committing unspeakable crimes.

[InsaneRemo]

Do you know what faith is? It just isn't religious, people have faith they will find a cure to cancer so should we get rid of it since faith causes conflict?

Faith is a matter of beliving something to be true which does serve a logical effect, which can be seen in placebo effect.

[janosj]

Sam Harris is a fine man who doesn't sell his thoughts but makes a lot clear about the behavior of people around us.

He again limited himself to both the obvious and what could be named 'the impossible'. He is explaining this way that we must neither go easy with the mystery of human existence nor mix up personal decisions with written words in that bestselling library named 'The Bible'.

For me he is a brilliant and touchable teacher involved in what he makes clear every time again.

[InsaneRemo]

A brilliant and touchable teacher? Behaviour of people around us? It looks likes he lives in fairy land since there have chrisitan movements opposing slavery, standing up for homo-sexual rights but lets forget that shall we? and people shape god not the bible some christians go against the bible...not a vast majority but they believe the bible needs to be redefined

[jameshanley40]

@InsaneRemo

Name 1 single thing that Sam Harris has said that is wrong. And let's discuss it.

He said that if you read the bible, homosexuality is an abomination.

That doesn't mean that there aren't moderates that don't think that way.

So what are you moaning about? You have to understand what he is saying to say he is wrong. And you can't understand him. He is so clear. You must be ill.

[InsaneRemo]

What the fuck am I moaning about? I can't understand him? You must be an idiot since this video even his book is promiting the idea that faith shouldn't be tolerated.

The bible has no right to dicitate someone's sexuality but neither does Sam harris so am I ill for finding a problem with an idiot saying its okay to be downright offensice and put an end to religion due to extremist? Guess all athiest shouldnt be tolerated since some are idiots -_-

[TheTechnomage]

@jameshanley40

Agreed. Moderates are not only are poor scholars/ theologians, they also set the conditions in which fundamentalist can flourish and then provide the respectability for their actions. If you can cherry-pick from these books then why not pick the bits that advocate intolerance and bigotry. Hey Presto..another fundy..

[jameshanley40]

@TheTechnomage

Alot of fundamentalists don't cherry pick. They despise cherry pickers. What is meant by moderate depends on the religion really. There are no islammic moderates, in the sense that even the most liberal islammic, thinks homosexuality is a sin, and defends mohammed stoning an adulterer or sleeping with a 9 year old girl that played with dolls. And the islammic moderates believe the quran is the word of god, and that mohammed is the perfect man and role model.

[InsaneRemo]

@jameshanley40 Should we kill all the germans? They started world I and World war II. Not only that, their leader was responsible for the holocaust. Despite, the fact that there were germans who wer helping agaisnt hitler as well as aiding jews escaping...we should logically kill them to prevent another tragedy as well as horror.

Does that sound logical to you? Does that sound rational? How is Sam harris any different from hitelr consider they both believe their doing the right thing?

[jameshanley40]

@InsaneRemo

You've gone completely insane now.

Hitler didn't kill all the germans, he killed 2/3 of european jews.

To compare Sam Harris, or even Saddam Hussein to Hitler, is atrocious. (I know, you only compared Sam Harris to Hitler)

Evangelical christianity gives people a good moral compass. If you want religion, I suggest that. But you'd need a brain too. You can't go comparing any tom dick and harry to Hitler. It's criminal to do so.

[InsaneRemo]

@jameshanley40 You didn't understand my arugment. The simple blunt truth is Harris is stating its okay to torturing people for having religon...that people should attack religion for the the benief of mankind.

However, you are saying it's okay to perscute others for their beliefs. Are you any different from a religious nutcase saying its okay to burn woman at the stake for being a wiccan?

Personally, I call that madness and very "irrational"...wouldn't you?

[jameshanley40]

@insane

Define "torture" and "persecute", and quote sam harris saying we should torture and persecute people for their beliefs.

Don't make up what sam harris says!!

[InsaneRemo]

@jameshanley40 In his book, the end of faith he states we shouldn't tolerate faith since it is too dangerous due to weapons of mass destuction.

He does make a good point but what happens when you start destroying religion to prevent that?

You should keep in mind that there are people who need something to believe in, which helps society to fuction.

However, when you go to destory something, fantacism occurs where the concept of no-tolerance becomes destructive.

[InsaneRemo]

@jameshanley40 Perscute: cause to suffer, which harris has done in a youtube video by comparing a jewish rabbi's belief to elvis being alive.

Now that isn't a big thing but when you start saying it's okay and start encouraging it. you are fostering this idea of anti-tolerance where people start getting bashed.

This then leads to movements that try to make decisions for others by changng the law e.g born again christians and sometimes get out of hand, Which then leads to torture

[derek24hudson]

I suspect 'respectful' means 'you cannot challenge or criticise my faith'! Many christians are less than respectful to gays, atheists etc, as are muslims. I find their beliefs and remarks very offensive and intolerant. BUT, I defend their right to express their views, as long as they do not deliberately incite violence or discrimination. I will just have to be grown up enough to be offended...that's the price of freedom. For the alternative, try Iran, China, Russia et al.

[InsaneRemo]

You are defending ther views to be expressed? I am at a loss since you are in a pardox since you are supporting Sam harris who humilates people with different views e.g saying god is elvis and laughing at them...It is good to be respecutfl but i have a problem with Sam harris method be would u like ur beliefs to be ridducled by some guy who thinks their clever who avoids an arugment?

[derek24hudson]

Comments about Sam Harris' race and motives are a red herring, and come across, despite the denials, as racist. This has echoes of the charges against Darwin himself, and alleged racism. In both cases, the charges are irrelevant. It is what these people SAY which is important. There is MUCH to criticise in Christianity, and other faiths, and believers have had an easy ride for years. Harris seems reasonable and rational, because he is. Nobody likes to have their faith challenged.

[janosj]

Harris doesn't attack faith, he DESCRIBES why and how the end of faith is there. He doesn't come with a RED herring but with a FRESH herring: faith is at its end, that is as simple as the sun that still rises every day...

[InsaneRemo]

Faith? What is faith? Last time I looked its about believing something is true which is what this new athiestic movement is doing ...I have faith that life will improve I have faith something happens after death...am I allowed to hope and to have dreams? Some of the worlds greatest scientest and leaders and inventors...have had faith and dreams but according to that statement we shouldnt believe in anything...?

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

"The hocus-pocus phantasy of a God, like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs." Thomas Jefferson, third President of the USA

[lapiz1969]

Question:

I heard Harris use 3 reasons religious people use to consider the value of their faith, one is that "atheism" is bad, the second is that religion is necessary, does anyone remember the third?

thanks...

[gskowal]

I cant believe that people dont consider bible and any other religious text a mythology.. Let's be honest, you have to be unintelligent to believe in all this nonsense.

[metal4ever22]

Now in my previous statement in saying that by saying evolution is only a theory you only prove your own ignorance, I feel I should expland since it seams gre8lakes does not understand. In the scientific process a theory is perhaps the highest order of proof, it means that there is much evidence to suport it and none to falsify it. So yes evolution is a theory, and it is most likely true.

[darkillity]

One can speak about "the germ theory of disease" or "the theory of gravitation" without casting doubt upon disease or gravity as facts of nature.

[GrE8LakEs]

isn't the theory of natural selection part of the theory of evolution?

by the way the theory of evolution is still a theory since there's still a lot of gaps and unknown stuff that needs to be researched first

I can understand that people think that it is a fact because of the lot of evidence, but yet it is a theory

at least for what I learned at school

[metal4ever22]

by saying evolution is only a theory you only prove your ignorance of the scientific process

[GrE8LakEs]

its not proven if you take into consideration that not all gaps in evolution have been explored, since then it is only a theory by definition.

im not ignorant at all, id rather say you are ignorant not allowing any other possibility than your theory. i mean if it would come out that the theory was false apart you would surely not accept it and defend whatever you think sounds logical

[GrE8LakEs]

dont forget that science had a hard way to define humans world view, but now your easy-going and should atleast listen to what the minority says now

[metal4ever22]

We have taken bacteria and observed as it evolved entirely new traits (Lenski's Eperiment). Quite clearly it is possible and probable that evolution explains the origin of our species given all the evidence that you mentioned you are aware of. And I believe that the theory has been fully explored; short of going back in time and physically observing it, but even if we had done that im sure that there would still be creationists.

[mohfoz77]

The theory of Natural Selection is not a theory anymore it is a fact, because of millions of evidence.

Some people still believe in FICTIONAL BOOKS and I am sorry for them because they are living a false dream.

[waltermh111]

to be clearn, evolution is a fact, natural selection is a theory to explain the fact of evolution.

Just like gravity is a theory and fact.

Most sciences are both

The fact is the assuredness of the idea as reality

The theory is a description of how it works

It is understandable how confusing it is to explain to people who dont want to believe in it before even glancing in the general direction of the evidence

But for those who care, just making clear

talkorigins . org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

[TAXtheAtheist]

Much in the likeness of Bernard Madoff, Sam Harris is a secular jew that runs a 'spiritual ponzi scheme'. Sam's audience is left with a black hole of emptiness, empty pocket books, and morally bankrupt; whilst Sam lines his bank account, laughing all the way.

Sam Harris is a Jew, cloaked in the garb of atheism.

Clearly, Sam Harris has Jewish Aggressions about him.

Total shyster, slick salesman at best.

[waltermh111]

you posted in the wrong place.

I wasnt discussing or replying to somebody that mentioned Sam Harris at all..

Not that I even get what a jewish heritage has to do with anything.

You likemaking stuff up to make yourself feel better?

Thinking you have all the answers to the world, understand people perfectly?

Feel good bashing people that arent harming you?

Reply to the proper place and stop being a narcisistic egotist.

[TAXtheAtheist]

@waltermh111

narcisistic? OMG, Sam Harris is a pompous arrogant bastard.

...and you think I'm posting in the wrong place?

[waltermh111]

maybe not the wrong video, but you posted to the wrong post.

Again, we were not talking about Harris

Also, evidence that Harris is arrogant and pompous?

Is it because you dont like that he doesnt believe in a god?

Does that hurt your feelings?

[metal4ever22]

i think your looking for the nazi forum

[TAXtheAtheist]

@metal4ever22, That is so typical. Get caught pick pocketing (or lies) then scream "victim"...

[metal4ever22]

I dont understand what you are trying to say. Could you be a little more specific?

And were you not talking about jewish aggression; that sounded a tad antisemetic to me, that is why i posted the comment.

[TAXtheAtheist]

@metal4ever22, I disagree with atheism, obviously. Sam Harris is very intolerant and down right nasty to Christians, despite his apparent placid demenor. He is jewish by race, this does not mean I hate all jews, as I am against anti- semitism as the next guy. However, this does not give Sam a Free pass, because of his ancestrial background.

[metal4ever22]

I respect your opinion but i disagree. I find sam harris to be fairly tolerant in respect to other aetheists. I find that aetheists are no more intolerant of christians than christians are of aetheists.

And I appologise for the nazi remark, just the way jew was phrased and how the other guy was saying you posted in the wrong place made me think to make a joke. Obviously you are not an nazi and I want to thank you for posting in a respecful manner.

[TAXtheAtheist]

@metal4ever22, fair enough. I can happily coexist with atheists in a respectful manner, if the favor can be returned.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." Thomas Jefferson

" The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." - John Adams

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." Abraham Lincoln

[theunraveler]

Luke 19:27 was a parable...Jesus was telling a story about the master and the ten minas

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

Molleen Matsumura:

Reason guides our attempt to understand the world about us. Both reason and compassion guide our efforts to apply that knowledge ethically, to understand other people, and have ethical relationships with other people.

[wearealltubes]

Yeah, I'm no fan of the bible, but that quote from Jesus was mined from a character in a parable, not from something he supposedly gave as an instruction. Minus 10 points for sloppy quote mining.

But then, he was just a bronze age hippy, so meh.

[TRUCKEEDOG666]

A true 'skeptics' bible would be no more than a pamphlet.

[Livelyanv]

I was making a reference to a website called skepticsannotatedbible

[Livelyanv]

(1) Luke 19:27 is within a parable.

To use that verse as an example of how the bible is morally defective, is one of the more pathetic moves I've seen.

[TRUCKEEDOG666]

More pathetic than the bible?

[Livelyanv]

More pathetic than the Skeptic's Annotated Bible.

[sexyfunklova]

Faved & subscribed!

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

Robert Ingersoll

If abuses are destroyed, we must destroy them. If slaves are freed, we must free them. If new truths are discovered, we must discover them. If the naked are clothed; if the hungry are fed; if justice is done; if labor is rewarded; if superstition is driven from the mind; if the defenseless are protected and if the right finally triumphs, all must be the work of people. The grand victories of the future must be won by humanity, and by humanity alone.

[Heffsta02]

wow great comment

[prisspross32]

agreed, very good comment.

[sincere2da]

well we need more people to be rational thinkers, we also need to solve economic tyranny, like the Capitalist system

[TomLeykisClips]

72 virgins — of an unspecified gender ;)

[yahoochatter]

What if it's big hairy grandfathers with genital warts?

[Chigokai1080]

72 - big fat wet hairy men, AHAHAHA sickening!!

[Hatchyack]

72 4Channers.

[Neelas12]

but dont forget that homosexuallity isn´t allowed in Islam.

[nomilkforsanta]

and the Dali Lama

[BionicDance]

And anyone who'z ever been with ONE virgin is probably thinking twice on this one... ;)

[faithisfiction]

Lol...

[dreamvisionnetwork]

When he is speaking that a neighbour can maybe make a child suffer for all eternity instead of just destroying the child life for a shorty life time, is he then stating that heaven exist and we should me more afraid that our children find out there is no heaven and abolish the church rather than being raped by the neighbour? is that what he is saying?

[jtfugate]

No he is stating that it is ridiculous for people to view someone who may teach your children that there are different worldviews as being equally detrimental as someone that could do something that would jeopardize the value of the only thing that is able to be proven to the extent that we can for the most part agree on as our only known existence as human beings...sound point if you ask me I'll take a christian telling my future children about some Jewish folk tales over a molester any day

[dreamvisionnetwork]

I get your point and thanks for giving an explanation. about your last sentence Im hoping we get to choose about who will tell the story of the world in the future. in some parts of the world its believe in the religion or youll be burned/slayed/hanged/shot. And not only in some parts of the world but also in the history of the religions of the world. I hope we can choose in the future too but if 1 religion would get monopoly then all of the free thinkers are in jeopardy. Lots of love !!!

[jtfugate]

I just am thankful that in many places these lies are being seen for exactly what they are...the fastest growing group of people are free thinkers/rationalist/atheist or whatever title you choose so that is good news...so many children will be free of the disgusting teachings of such archaic times

[SockbatReplica]

He is saying that if you believe the part of the christian religion that clearly states that those who do not accept Jesus will depart into everlasting fire then it would be logical to fear a heretic more than a pedophile. That's the problem with believing these kinds of things.

[vv3d3L]

Muslim world needs to think more.

[vibrohm]

World needs to think more.

[romansionis]

Sam harris need to travel more in the Muslim world.

[nogoodreason]

Thank you for uploading this video.

[sylviabombs15]

epic