i guess its because too many generations have gone and too many religions are about... well people miss the mark by far, firstly God is not a Religion, secondly when Jesus was on earth he didnt follow any religion, the people he went to the synagogue with were Jews, they say birds of a feather flock together, well they were the driving force behind killing Jesus because he refused to do as they say, but only as his Father told him to. Religions will do the very same John 16:2 KJV Bible...
@james235252 Point one is wrong. The source of the logic upon which you are founding the basis of your argument cannot be observed. It is one of the basic arguments in favour of God. Google "Transcendental argument".
@SFRobertsDickClarke I would agree that logic can not be observed, because logic is a confirmation in the brain of what can actually be observed to be true. So, I would argue that logic is a by product of the physical brain, the same as the imagination. Meaning, logic is the description of physical observation.
funny how ppl can ignore facts,ignore reason.well its just plain ignorance isnt it? religion is MAN made,MAN writte.cmon we are so developed now,intelligent.why believe sth highly unlikely that some old men craving for power WROTE ages ago.cant we just be intelligent human beings here.maybe we cant disprove god 100% yet,but atleast 99%.we cant disprove they boogeyman either cuz its rather hardt to disprove fiction.comon grow up humanity or be extinct
This is so absurd. Atheists saying that we are the "old roommates"? This coming from the idiots who demand social services for them from the 'old monopoly men'.
How has no one recognized that these atheists today are literally psycho propagandists. This is nothing but unsubstantiated hate speech. Sponsored by the ACLU.
@knowwaie Ya you're right, they actually saw all those gods n shit back in the day but now the gods are just like "we aren't gonna show ourselves but just take this old book's word for it".
Did you know that there are people who research the subject and understand it? We call them 'h-i-s-t-o-r-i-a-n-s. If you ask a historian he will explain to you that 'all these gods' were never meant to be taken literally, not even at the time. In fact many of them were actually inventions of atheists. They were not actual gods. They used the word differently back then. They thought completely differently back then. You at least can understand that? It's quite simple.
Of course, In very early parts of history there are many stories about beings that literally came down from the sky in a time they called the golden age. The city Atlantis. Which was wiped out during a flood. I'm sure you've heard. That was the only time in history that would fit the description of, as you said; "they actually saw all those gods n shit back in the day".
There is an actual history. Atheists avoid it like the plague because history proves 'primitive' people were not so inferior.
@knowwaie Atlantis wasn't a city, it was a continent. Shows how much you know about myths though. Besides, if an entire fucking utopian continent was wiped out during a flood, why no other continents? And why isn't there any solid evidence that such a place even existed in the first place? What gods did they worship? And what proof is there that those gods aren't just another false religion? And why don't these gods show themselves to modern day humans?
Regardless, to answer your very common question. According to the Judeo Christian doctrine (if that is what you're asking about) you are supposed to 'take the book's word for it'. Which is exactly what it says. It's called the revelation. Which would explain the history very easily. Otherwise you have to believe that history was a product of natural evolutionary processes produced by an explosion and the bible was conspired to control people. Is that about right?
Obviously not. I know this is your mentality in being an atheist. You believe it because some guy told you so. Theism is philosophical in the least. I don't expect you to be familiar with philosophy. You're far less sophisticated than you're assuming me to be.
You are at least aware that there are people who are only deists and not theists? Why do you think that is?
Is it even worth talking to you? Give me some evidence that you're not just an ignorant cocky little kid.
Just curious if you are making a distinction between religion and the existence of God? I get what you are saying about religion.....but I have experienced God in a way that makes me agree with you about religion, but I can't deny that God is real.
I wish I can respect this, but it was so far off the truth. Real religion is not nothing like alcoholism. It is not a lie. It is something a person desides is the truth after a lot of soul-searching and careful thought. I really looked into becoming a chirstian before I became one, not because I was lied to, but because it rings of the truth.
I say this with respect to the rest here, but I could not say anything. That would be a lie to myself. God bless and/or have a nice day. ^_^
GOD must die by himself the fu+king idiot. If there is realy a god out there than he must be killed. The creator and tolerator of the pedophiles, murderers, rapers and worser the bloodthirsty dinosaurs...
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Adam was created prefect with the ability to choose. He chose to disobey his creator. We now suffer because of our father's poor choice; however, the last Adam is God's gift so that we don't have to suffer for our sin. If we neglect so great a gift of salvation, how shall we escape God's judgment? The preaching of the cross is a foolish fairy tale to those who perish, but for those of us who are saved, it is the power of God! Take this wisdom please! You are wise in your own conceit!
@ajlapiana but god control Adam to choose to rebel against him by creating eve who took the forbidden fruit so in the bibles word females are responsible for humanity's sin....if you believe in that horseshit.
Also go back on the ground like a good obedient God slave that your church raised you to be and fork your money to them.
@rockthecityatnight That's very insightful. I have often pondered the perverse nature of theistic, nomenclature. There is always this sense that something must be real, because there is a word for it. This coincides with the simplistic mindset of fundamentalist theists, characterized by an inability to employ hypothetical scenarios (hypothesis), but require closure and certainty. This whole complex seems driven by naive projected objectivity. Just as a child learns, words mean things. Thanks!
@skepticoz Of all the titles given to God in the Bible I think "The Word" is the most intriguing. And this fits with "The Observer Effect." Because to observe something is to describe it.
Not to sound like an Anthro Major but the majority of your ranting is based on Abrahamic/monotheistic concepts of Faith.
Though I agree in large parts, I think the Ethnic tribal peoples who wish to left alone with their spirits/gods should be. ( which is entirely different matter).
as much as you guys want to deny it, the bases of values for western culture is based off of christian values. especially america were the puritan beleifs shaped the way the colonies grew. although a lot of the founding fathers werent christian themselves, the people were christians.
@cakeisnotanumber hell religion was the bases for western society and culture. you dont need to be a rocket scientist to know thats a fact. and i wasnt proving the existence of god.
This is real good.......simple explanation for how people try to control others!!
In the past it was fear.....now we can understand some aspects of fear....we do not have to believe the rhetoric. Fear can be reduced and your life will be free from those attempting to control you with the big reward at the end of the game.
If you want to know what death is like ........just think of all the memories you had before you where born!!
@LinkMEP "Religious people are not more bigoted" - That must be the biggest lie I've ever heard. Religious people are often bigoted, but even if we agree to disagree with that point religion itself, if not it's followers, ARE bigoted. Try reading the ENTIRE bible and not cherrypicking the decent parts.
@cakeisnotanumber You are supposed to treat everyone as yourself, that is the exact opposite of bigoted. I do not know about non-Christian religions however, but I believe most of the major ones have similar thoughts on this matter.
@LinkMEP "You are supposed to treat everyone as yourself, that is the exact opposite of bigoted" - That is the theory but most Christians and religious people don't follow this idea. Look at the Catholic church! Why do you defend religion when it is blatantly useless and indeed dangerous to society?
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
This is an awesome video man. I'm going to send this to my devout christian brother. Thank you for saying what I would like to say, but don't know how.
I have no disrespect for anyone who believes in God. However the bible was created by a bunch of people to give guidlines to people for everyday life. Civilization relied heavily on this book and took it way out of hand. Do you really think "god" can keep an eye on over SIX BILLION PEOPLE? God and the bible were thought up to create ORDER.
@xKillerWandx "However the bible was created by a bunch of people to give guidlines to people for everyday life." Correct. This is no different from any other text regarding moral philosophy except for the claim that this particular text was divinely inspired and thus pragmatically justified.
"Do you really think 'god' can keep an eye on over SIX BILLION PEOPLE?"
God is defined as omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
Some people did. Evangelical Christians and many Catholics often take it way too far however most Christians don't. Religion is not a bad thing, especially Christianity. It is a source for the majority of good in America. All of your ideas and beliefs regarding good and bad can be traced back to the traditional Judeo-Christian ethic, whether you believe in God or not. If you want an example, look at the American Red Cross (Christian roots)
@xKillerWandx If anyone has taken something too far, it's FFreeThinker and the unjustifiable hate he espouses in this video.
"Religions original reason for existing was to comfort people during tough times by explaining a phenomena in nature with the thought that whatever was happening was in the hands of an invisible force called God."
This is simply unsubstantiated by any historical evidence and patently not true, yet he expects you all to just accept it without question...
@ThoseWhoStayUofM to be perfectly honest, god is different for every culture, and if u watch the history channel, they explain that we have been visited by extra terrestrials. there are hyroglyphics of men riding space ships, men in space suits all over the pyramids. that was a depiction of their god. like i said, no disrespect towards people who look up to god, this is just my opinion
@xKillerWandx "To be perfectly honest, god is different for every culture."
I'm talking about the Christian God. This video doesn't reference any other god.
"if u watch the history channel, they explain that we have been visited by extra terrestrials."
Yeah... stop watching the history channel... There's a lot of misinformation out there. The Egyptions also depicted some of their kings with elongated skulls, yet they certainly didn't have them in reality (physical evidence).
@ThoseWhoStayUofM im going to continue watching the history channel because it intrigues me. i dont believe in god, and it will stay that way. you have your opinion, and the rest of the world has theirs
That's exceptable. People who require physical proof to justify their beliefs shouldn't believe in God. Since there is no physical proof of his existence, I don't expect people who require it to believe.
"we have been visited by extra terrestrials"
Oh... uh... I guess you're just illogical. At least hold true to your principles. That's all I ask of humanity.
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Dumbest video in the world. Your argument is completely retarded. Baseless assertions left and right. Completely retarded. Blaming religion for every problem in the world... sweet. Brilliant. There is absolutely zero evidence to support the claim that all religion is about amassing power. Hinduism... yeah... they sure are power hungry. Protestant Christians... oh yeah... because the protestant reformation wasn't founded by the idea of freedom of religion and speech... sweet. morons.
I'm not sure WHO made this video exactly, but I have a few critiques. First of all, I agree with, and enjoy listening to this speaker. However, the video makes many... mistakes is the wrong word, but I would encourage the creator to avoid using quite so many "Lord-Privy-Seals." I'm sure the author knows what this is-- if not, a quick google search will clarify it-- again, I mean absolutely no offense, wonderful video. But, I do encourage some restraint in that area. Cheers.
Maybe we should rename the internet to be "god, version 2.0" since most everyone already worships it, and it already meets most of the criteria of a god (knows everything, sees everything, knows more about us than we do, etc, etc.) We could start by translating all the scriptures into RDFa and invite the clergy to develop schema for their interpretation, etc. Even deeply religious people would start using it for the semantic searching and be lured into learning enough about it to doubt it.
You propose that you can only come to God by three methods 1. Parents 2. Teacher 3. Psychosis. 1Jn 4:19 WeG2249 loveG25 him,G846 becauseG3754 heG846 firstG4413 lovedG25 us.G2248 .
@FFreeThinker That part about how you cannot have a leader elected without them at least faking religious faith made me think of the recent elections here in the U.K.. I remember watching one of the Q&A sessions with Nick Clegg and he openly said he was "not religious". My point being that he felt free enough to say that without fear of reprisal, I think this goes some way to showing how the people here care more about what the party can actually DO and less of what they believe.
@deafencryption, But it's a good thing. Because America just happens to be in the business of engineering bigger and better facades. I think Christianity is what best trains us to do that. And given that all we're really robbing is our own future, and that that future seems to belong mostly to the people ignorant enough to behave and reproduce like lemmings there's no real crime. A shame, sure. A loss, of course. But will a swine miss having pearls or even be cognizant of the loss? I doubt it.
@ananiasacts that reasoning kind of reminds me of a quote "in a way, Hitler was a good thing. without him we would have never understood what true hate is and how to curb our appetite for expressing it" in other words -we learn from our evil. our future seems bright. more and more people are tossing their myths for reasonable thoughts and actions. The census shows this
@deafencryption, I think so too. Religion is in its death throes. The internet is like a fiber optic pipeline bringing sunlight into the deepest recesses of human consciousness. The cowardly ignorant fears of our superstitious ancestors that have grown like a smelly fungus over our entire culture are being burnt off by the sterilizing light of honest scrutiny and scientific inquiry. The charlatans and wicked parasites that prey on our fears and ignorance are being discredited and exposed.
hello! can somebody help me please, i heard this song on dj remix CD and i don't know the name of the song maybe like that: we can...come, i'll see you again, monday to fight.... The voice of the boy in this song is so different , somebody know this song, ok go my home and thanks so much!
The difference between religion and walking with God is the relationship.you have a personal relationship with God,in religion you just follow man made doctrines.They are not the same.
Great how the internet is spreading the message of atheism. I would never have turned into such a commited atheist if it had not been for the internet.
Please stop stating your personal opinion on how religions get started as fact. It is widely debated and there's no consensus.
Also, the drunk person vs. religion person is a horrible analogy in so many ways. Are you seriously saying that religious people shouldn't be allowed to drive cars?
Hi DasKrbbe, you seriously need a dash of common sense to understand the difference between a drunkard and a Christian. You have made a terrible mistake of using the wrong analogy to state your personal opinion. By the way, I strongly believe that 'religion' is just a terminology. The truth is that there is no religion at all. It's all about the love relationship between a loving God and His workmanship. Cheers. :)
Hi Das Krabbe, you said "Also, the drunk person vs. religion person is a horrible analogy in so many ways. Are you seriously saying that religious people shouldn't be allowed to drive cars?" Did you write wrongly or maybe, you can explain what you mean by this? Thanks:)
If you watch the video you'll see he makes the analogy between a drunk person and a religious person. I think that is a horrible analogy. So I am criticizing an analogy, not making one myself.
I'm so sick of this "no atheists in foxholes" crap...the next Christian who says the equivalent of that...please take a moment to stop and think...of all the other religions that call YOUR beliefs wrong. You can assert that atheists will believe when we die, but really what are you basing that statement on? Neither you nor anyone else can be in someone's mind when they die. Think about it for a moment and you may understand why we consider you sadly brainwashed.
Hi freethinker, it doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus and His Word or not, the truth of the matter is that He is alive forevermore and He's coming back soon. It is also as good as saying that it doesn't matter if you believe if I exist or not. The solid truth is that I am a human being ans am writing to you. Anyway, in a tsunami or an earthquake, there is no atheist or freethinker. All will behold the power of God! Jesus loves you. :)
But that's just it... he's always "coming back soon", which is fine and well; but doesn't do anything for those with valid doubts about the existence of something divine in the here and now.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to believe in something or someone, but there's something wrong with trying to enforce a code of morality on people because of those beliefs.
Look at your body and can you tell me that nobody created you and you were an accident? There's no need for me to enforce the doctrine of God in you. The universe and all that's in it are the evidence of His existence and sovereignty. Please stop denying the truth. Jesus loves you. :)
If the code of morality is not established in a person's life or country, there would be immorality and vices, etc. Anyway, Jesus is fair. He created all human beings to be free moral agent or freewill to believe in Him or not. The choice lies with you and you are responsible for it. Choose life. :)
All have a choice, yes our salvation rests in Christ, but whats the alternative!! Darwinism equals eternal passing away, none existence, death the opposite of life. Interestingly there is no sweltering damnation in scripture; the scriptures do not speak of literal fire, its representational of an everlasting cutting off. Those who do not accept the Good News (their choice) will experience just that, a cutting off. No threat, we all have choice.
Hi rainydaybluez, you have to know that truth is so narrow that there is only one way to enter life eg. 1+1=2. If other human beings on planet earth told you that there are many ways to enter life, you may wish to know that they are liars, because truth cannot be compromised to please everybody. I encourage you to read a book, 'Divine Revelation of Hell', written by Mary K. Baxter, to catch a glimpse of that place of torment, which was created soley for the fallen angels and not man.
rainydaybluez, you stated: "The scriptures do not speak of literal fire." I take it we are ignoring Luke 16:23-24? The rich man does not seem to be describing seperation from God, he is describing torture.
And yes, if my choice is to believe in a divine entity that is comfortable with eternal punishment for finite crimes, I would choose to not believe.
As an aside, Darwinism (I assume you mean evolution) has nothing to do with belief in a divine entity, only Bible literalism.
@rainydaybluez: Yes, I agree with you that it is a repugnant idea. However, if we are to treat every reference like that as an allegory, how do we know what isn't an allegory? Lazarus was raised from the dead, was that also an allegory?
While I have no issue with believing the Bible was allegorical in nature, once you believe that, religion becomes suspect, as it is housed around the concepts of stories as opposed to truisms.
There are a group of illustrations that surround the rich/poorman/Lazarus each of the illustrations start with a Certain Man, Jesus used these illustrations as a teaching aid, from their context they were never meant to be taken literally.
Hi rchodges, maybe you should thank God that we are not robots. We are free moral agents. God is fair and just. When you took your last breath on this troublesome planet earth, you have the ultimate choice to hug your loving Creator Who settled the penalty for all your sins and live together with Him or continued to rebell against Him and join those rebels whose preference is the place of torment.
There are plenty of shortcomings in our body, plenty of things that could have been "designed" better. People can look at random ink on paper and find beauty and symmetry.
The Universe doesn't "prove" a divine entity even though many would like it to.
Hi rchodges, you are right to say that we have many shortcomings in our body and especially, our attitude. Sadly, many intelligent people like you are too dumb to investigate what has led to all this imperfections. If the Universe doesn't prove that God exist, then I'm really sorry to say that you are more dumb than all the animals and plants or rather, the other creations of God because they knew the fact and they have no attitude problem. LOL. :)
@agracean: I'm going to ignore the use of the word "dumb", as it doesn't further conversation. How does the Universe prove a divine entity? Because it exists, God must exist? I certainly don't fault you for accepting that position, but that is a subjective analysis of the world, not an objective one.
I am aware of original sin, which proves God is cruel. To allow his divine creation to manipulate individuals that do not understand deception is truly disturbing.
@rchodges: Thanks for reminding me not to use the word "dumb" on fools. LOL. Well, I am a lady and I do suppose that you are a man. The truth is that you are a man and your testes has the ability to produce millions or billions of sperms again after each ejaculation, right? This is not my subjective view but the objective truth. There must be a Creator Who has the ability to create billions of fools like you, who refused to ascribe due glory to Him!
How do fools behave? They don't know get their facts right and start babble like a babbling fool! LOL. It is more stupid of you to say that God is cruel without searching for the truth. Fools like to point fingers at God for every problems, etc and refused to take responsibility for their follies. :)
Off topic but, the picture at 0:16 is photoshopped, right? The beam going into the windshield would have had to been hanging there with no post connecting it to the ground after the post directly in front of the car.
RELIGION WILL" ALWAYS" be prevalent so get used to it!! People are afraid of the thought of nothingness after death! The hope of an eternal bliss after death will ALWAYS keep religion alive!!
Morals evolve like the always have, through social dialogue and lessons learned from history.
And yes we should base further discussions not on ancient scripture and superstitions. No one today would make laws and morals based on Greek mythology, so why should we care for scripture or other religions? I don't deny that religion might have morals to consider, but they should be considered for their value and not the dogma behind it!
I agree on the misuse of religion to gain power. That's well substantiated. The title of the video should have been, "Why fight the misuse of religion?" because you seem to make broad-brush allegations that cannot be substantiated. Are ALL clergy power hungry? Do they ALL have blind followers? Certain sects within Christianity encourage dissension from within to avoid misuse, ICor. 11:19; Rom. 14.
I was implying that religions are intrinsically setup to enact social control! The system that is religion isn't really dependent on clergy actively deceiving their flock, since the ultimate authority lies with a supernatural claim that is removed from any critical questioning. Whether you use this for personal gain or belong to the deluded yourself, doesn't really matter in the end!
The reason you cannot critical question the morals and laws, lies in the nature of the supernatural itself, which is removed from scientific, naturalistic inquiry and solely relies on revelation! Therefore said morals can either only be changed through such revelation, by an earthly authority figure who has enough devout followers, or through social evolution! Look at christian scripture scripture, slavery and misogyny are still intrinsic elements of the bible.
The Bible didn't change, society did, which did not happen because someone made a critical inquiry and asked god if he still thinks slavery is a good thing!
@annata12: So then it's your position that moral laws should derive from individual critical thinking that has it's basis in scientific and naturalistic inquiry.
Am I right in stating that?
Also I ask should it's basis be ONLY in these inquiries that you mention in order to have more poignantly correct morals.
In other words, if I base my morals on anything outside these inquiries, will they most likely be incorrect?
One example! Look at Catholicism. For them to stay relevant in society they adopt more liberal views to fit the Zeitgeist, while saying that's how the bible should always have been interpreted, but look at third world countries and you have a totally different Catholicism, a lot more superstitious much more similar to what i was before the renaissance in Europe !
I meant evolution just in the context of change and our ability to learn from our past and to contemplate the future. Not evolution as it happens in nature, which is a natural process. If we stopped learning than of course morals would become stagnant, but as long as we learn new things about reality and ourselves our morals too will change
@annata12 Never received an answer to my question. I'll put it like this. Naturalism is incoherent for the very reason that it denies the metaphysical. From the Christian perspective, laws of logic are metaphysical in nature. If naturalism is true and all of our thoughts and views are a mere result of electrochemical reactions in the brain, then all of our thoughts and views are predetermined by these electrochemical reactions.
@GenRev1611 I'll try to help. You made two incorrect assertions. The laws of logic are not metaphysical, and the fact that the brain activity is electrochemical does not mean that thoughts are predetermined. What is your question?
@trueleroix RE: What is your question?-You stated that I made two incorrect statements. The way such is determined is by using laws of logic. How is it possible to account for what is true or untrue in an atheistic world view? How do I know what is true today, may not be true tomorrow?
@GenRev1611 "How is it possible to account for what is true or untrue in an atheistic world view? How do I know what is true today, may not be true tomorrow?" That is your question? The answer is no different for an atheist then it is for anyone else. You should probably not call atheism a world view either. It is merely a disbelief in a god claim.
@trueleroix I agree that there are differing points of view in the atheistic unbelief if you will. My second question has to do with induction. In that question the atheist can only assume induction, which leads to the first question, how can that which is true and always been true stay true. If one says, it's always been like that, then they assume induction. Therefore they cannot account for it. I hope that sounds clear to you?
@GenRev1611 If I get this correct you are stating that:
Inductive reasoning = required existence of a god
This is a huge leap, and you have done nothing to show any evidence for it. I can induct, and I can assume. the existence of an all powerful god would ruin that in that it could change the rules at any time, so you actually have served to show evidence against the existence of any god.
@trueleroix Actually inductive reasoning does not require the existence of 'A GOD' as you put it. If that were the case then yes 'A GOD' can change the rules because pagan gods for example have a mutable nature. Inductive reasoning can only be accounted for if the God that is referred to is immutable. Christianity holds to the doctrine of the immutability of God and a providential nature that is consistant with induction.
@GenRev1611 . Therefore Christianity the only coherent position in matters of induction. I never said you CAN'T INDUCT, I said that you cannot account for induction.
@trueleroix I see your having trouble defending your view from an epistemological standpoint. I know what's next, you will use laws of logic and inductive reasoning, both of which you cannot account for. And use them to disprove Christianity. Hence you will try to disprove the existence of God by borrowing from a Christian worldview.
@trueleroix If logic and induction are not from a Christian worldview please tell me first how you can account for them before you impose them on the Bible. If you can do this in a coherent fashion, then I'll be glad to have that discussion about the Bible with you.
@trueleroix First there is the Law of Identity supported of the Nature of God in Exodus 3:14. A is A, a thing or a being is what it is and cannot be anything other. Law of Contradiction supported in 2 Corinthians 1:18 in that God is faithful and cannot lie. The Law of excluded middle supported in Matt. 12:30. Induction Eph. 1:11 "He works all things according to the counsel of his will." The world is governed by laws that are consistent with His nature.
@trueleroix At this point you will tell me to prove this using logic and induction. Now I ask you what does logic and induction have to do with your worldview. How can you account for your use of it? Once you can account for it, then we can get deeper into the Bible. Prove that it is coherent in your view to use laws you cannot account for.
@GenRev1611 Forget The Bible. i read that. That God obviously does not exist. If you want to try to speak of a god, let's try one that you have a chance with. The Hebrew God...Holy Crap, come, on...You have read The Bible...There is no way...
@trueleroix You want the luxury to disprove God when all the while you do so, you use inductive and deductive reasoning. I've asked you repeatedly, how is it that you can even account for these very forms of reasoning you boast of using to disprove God? Reasoning itself by nature requires THE CONCEPT OF ABSOLUTE TRUTH, and the assumption that such a concept exists. Until you can answer that, your attempts to disprove God will be feeble.
@GenRev1611 Stop it! It is impossible to disprove the existence of any god and you know it. I have never said that I could or would do that. You need to be more honest if you want to deal with me. I know that it's tough for you, seeing that you lie to yourself so much, but try harder, you may become slightly less of a bold faced liar over time and even a slightly honest person with a strong effort.
@trueleroix I admit, I did jump the gun and I'm guilty of a red herring by misrepresenting your position. You obviously believe that there is just not ENOUGH evidence for the existence of a DEITY. I stand corrected. What I'm stating is that all the while you use laws of reasoning in order to make your case for lack of evidence. You fail to realize that you first need to account for such laws. I'm still waiting for the answer to my question. How do you account for these laws?
@GenRev1611 Thanks for bringing it back...I assume that any given universe that any sentient beings would have some laws of physics...maybe different, or maybe the same as our known universe, but I would not cite some intelligence for their existence.
@trueleroix Well in conclusion I'll state that the problem with agnostic/atheists approach to weigh the proofs/lack there of for God's existence is just that. To weigh these proofs using empirical methods is just as naive as using them to weigh proofs to validate/invalidate inductive/deductive reasoning. For one must use these laws of reasoning in order to begin dialogue. It is my position then that the laws utilized...
@trueleroix ...in induction/deduction are consistent with the nature and attributes of the Christian God. These universal concepts that arrive us to ABSOLUTE TRUTH therefore can only be accounted for with in Christian theistic thinking. This is what's called the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God. That is without God, you cannot prove anything. And by the way, I wasn't referring to laws of physics.
Law of Logic is a book. And religion is out of bounds when using the principles of logic since religion cannot be argued. Also, deductive arguments are valid or invalid, sound or unsound, but are never false or true. Therefore there is no "absolute truth" from the standpoint of logic.
Basically, believing in an imaginary being does not give you any more knowledge about the real workings of the world than you would have from Not believing in a made up entity.
Even religious scholars can't agree on the meanings of passages in the bible. Nor can christians agree on what is literal or what is metaphorical. Of course, why would your "god" have man write out a religious text with metaphors rather than straight truth. Surely he'd want it to have ONE meaning only. BUt then you all couldn't flip flop on your beliefs and what the writings mean. Like how it's apparently okay to sell your daughter into slavery.
@Bordann First about the slavery issue, 'cause folks get tripped up with that. Distinctions must be made between the 19th century and those of biblical times. Mostly slavery was due to the lack of ability of paying off debts and slaves for the most part in history slaves were not treated like those of the 19th century. They were treated with decency but still somewhat as property since they owed great debt.
@GenRev1611 Secondly, why argue for the dignity of even the 19th century slaves if on your worldview, assuming you're a materialist, you cannot account for why people should be treated with dignity.
Thirdly, elaborate what you said, "the Law of Logic is a book." Can Laws of Logic be empirically proven to be universal. How do you account for it's universality.
@GenRev1611 Would've answered your second part sooner if you had replied to me, not yourself. 1) I argue about the rights of people (against slavery) because slavery is detrimental to humankind as a species and goes against equality. And slavery has most often involved degradation, especially in tribal and war-prone cultures. 2) There is a book that is named the Laws of Logic. The laws of logic are a standard set that are used by all modern logicians. I hope that answers your questions.
This is a great video
MrJonkelp 1 month ago
interesting video and very informative
alexasmithy 1 month ago
i guess its because too many generations have gone and too many religions are about... well people miss the mark by far, firstly God is not a Religion, secondly when Jesus was on earth he didnt follow any religion, the people he went to the synagogue with were Jews, they say birds of a feather flock together, well they were the driving force behind killing Jesus because he refused to do as they say, but only as his Father told him to. Religions will do the very same John 16:2 KJV Bible...
hrhjudy 2 months ago
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james235252 2 months ago
i agree, but biblical christianity is far from
andrew1haddad 2 months ago
rebuttal of the Theorem of God
1) all things that exist can be observed
2) all things that are observed can be described
3) all things imagined can be described
4) not all things imagined can exist
5) god can not be observed but can be described
6) therefore god must be imaginary or god can not exist
james235252 5 months ago 7
@james235252 Point one is wrong. The source of the logic upon which you are founding the basis of your argument cannot be observed. It is one of the basic arguments in favour of God. Google "Transcendental argument".
SFRobertsDickClarke 2 months ago
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@SFRobertsDickClarke I would agree that logic can not be observed, because logic is a confirmation in the brain of what can actually be observed to be true. So, I would argue that logic is a by product of the physical brain, the same as the imagination. Meaning, logic is the description of physical observation.
james235252 2 months ago
0:15 holy shit!
MuffinTop528 5 months ago
i bartend and drunks are more lucid than the religious
FUwogs 5 months ago 4
funny how ppl can ignore facts,ignore reason.well its just plain ignorance isnt it? religion is MAN made,MAN writte.cmon we are so developed now,intelligent.why believe sth highly unlikely that some old men craving for power WROTE ages ago.cant we just be intelligent human beings here.maybe we cant disprove god 100% yet,but atleast 99%.we cant disprove they boogeyman either cuz its rather hardt to disprove fiction.comon grow up humanity or be extinct
TheAllien111 5 months ago in playlist RELIGION IS BULLSHIT!
This is so absurd. Atheists saying that we are the "old roommates"? This coming from the idiots who demand social services for them from the 'old monopoly men'.
How has no one recognized that these atheists today are literally psycho propagandists. This is nothing but unsubstantiated hate speech. Sponsored by the ACLU.
knowwaie 6 months ago
"religion's original reason for existing was to comfort"
There is no historical evidence for this claim... In fact there is generally no comfort in those texts.
Atheists are just plain liars. It's silly how they take themselves seriously.
knowwaie 6 months ago
@knowwaie Ya you're right, they actually saw all those gods n shit back in the day but now the gods are just like "we aren't gonna show ourselves but just take this old book's word for it".
BrimstoneLandscapes 6 months ago
You're clueless.
Did you know that there are people who research the subject and understand it? We call them 'h-i-s-t-o-r-i-a-n-s. If you ask a historian he will explain to you that 'all these gods' were never meant to be taken literally, not even at the time. In fact many of them were actually inventions of atheists. They were not actual gods. They used the word differently back then. They thought completely differently back then. You at least can understand that? It's quite simple.
knowwaie 6 months ago
Of course, In very early parts of history there are many stories about beings that literally came down from the sky in a time they called the golden age. The city Atlantis. Which was wiped out during a flood. I'm sure you've heard. That was the only time in history that would fit the description of, as you said; "they actually saw all those gods n shit back in the day".
There is an actual history. Atheists avoid it like the plague because history proves 'primitive' people were not so inferior.
knowwaie 6 months ago
@knowwaie Atlantis wasn't a city, it was a continent. Shows how much you know about myths though. Besides, if an entire fucking utopian continent was wiped out during a flood, why no other continents? And why isn't there any solid evidence that such a place even existed in the first place? What gods did they worship? And what proof is there that those gods aren't just another false religion? And why don't these gods show themselves to modern day humans?
BrimstoneLandscapes 6 months ago
Regardless, to answer your very common question. According to the Judeo Christian doctrine (if that is what you're asking about) you are supposed to 'take the book's word for it'. Which is exactly what it says. It's called the revelation. Which would explain the history very easily. Otherwise you have to believe that history was a product of natural evolutionary processes produced by an explosion and the bible was conspired to control people. Is that about right?
knowwaie 6 months ago
@knowwaie So you believe the Bible because the Bible tells you to. Okay, that's really all I have to say.
BrimstoneLandscapes 6 months ago
Obviously not. I know this is your mentality in being an atheist. You believe it because some guy told you so. Theism is philosophical in the least. I don't expect you to be familiar with philosophy. You're far less sophisticated than you're assuming me to be.
You are at least aware that there are people who are only deists and not theists? Why do you think that is?
Is it even worth talking to you? Give me some evidence that you're not just an ignorant cocky little kid.
knowwaie 6 months ago
Just curious if you are making a distinction between religion and the existence of God? I get what you are saying about religion.....but I have experienced God in a way that makes me agree with you about religion, but I can't deny that God is real.
sethtaylor40 9 months ago
Wow this was an excellent video much thought went into word and pictures. Top notch stuff sir. I as a deist support you sir.
IchFresseTitanJa 9 months ago
P.S Thank you. For not calling us idiots or uneducated. I appreceate that.
NoraGoth1 9 months ago
I wish I can respect this, but it was so far off the truth. Real religion is not nothing like alcoholism. It is not a lie. It is something a person desides is the truth after a lot of soul-searching and careful thought. I really looked into becoming a chirstian before I became one, not because I was lied to, but because it rings of the truth.
I say this with respect to the rest here, but I could not say anything. That would be a lie to myself. God bless and/or have a nice day. ^_^
NoraGoth1 9 months ago
'Bad people do bad things, good people do good thing, religion makes good people do bad things'
What more reason do you need to fight religion?
maskofsan1ty 11 months ago
GOD must die by himself the fu+king idiot. If there is realy a god out there than he must be killed. The creator and tolerator of the pedophiles, murderers, rapers and worser the bloodthirsty dinosaurs...
MrVandervlis 1 year ago
Repent ! Repent ! The End Is Nigh !!!!!! Repent ! Repent ! We're all gona die !!! Repent !! Repent !! These secrets will kill us !!! SO GET ON YOUR KNEES AND PRAY FOR FOOORRRGIIIIVEEENESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!
VistaManiac93 1 year ago
@VistaManiac93 Surely thou art a poe. ; )
skepticoz 11 months ago
Adam was created prefect with the ability to choose. He chose to disobey his creator. We now suffer because of our father's poor choice; however, the last Adam is God's gift so that we don't have to suffer for our sin. If we neglect so great a gift of salvation, how shall we escape God's judgment? The preaching of the cross is a foolish fairy tale to those who perish, but for those of us who are saved, it is the power of God! Take this wisdom please! You are wise in your own conceit!
ajlapiana 1 year ago
@ajlapiana Lol
DjRalfy 9 months ago
@ajlapiana but god control Adam to choose to rebel against him by creating eve who took the forbidden fruit so in the bibles word females are responsible for humanity's sin....if you believe in that horseshit.
Also go back on the ground like a good obedient God slave that your church raised you to be and fork your money to them.
jakcloudhighwind 7 months ago
Theorem of God
1.) All things that exist must be described in words.
2.) Words describe things, things do not describe words
3.) Therefore all things that exist are first described in words in order to exist
4.) Therefore the first thing to exist must be a word
5.) "In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" John 1:1
6.) God is the Word "in the beginning" and therefore created all things by the first word and therefore God must exist.
rockthecityatnight 1 year ago
@rockthecityatnight That's very insightful. I have often pondered the perverse nature of theistic, nomenclature. There is always this sense that something must be real, because there is a word for it. This coincides with the simplistic mindset of fundamentalist theists, characterized by an inability to employ hypothetical scenarios (hypothesis), but require closure and certainty. This whole complex seems driven by naive projected objectivity. Just as a child learns, words mean things. Thanks!
skepticoz 11 months ago
@skepticoz Of all the titles given to God in the Bible I think "The Word" is the most intriguing. And this fits with "The Observer Effect." Because to observe something is to describe it.
Check it out.
watch?v=b6l5Zh7w9yQ
rockthecityatnight 11 months ago
Not to sound like an Anthro Major but the majority of your ranting is based on Abrahamic/monotheistic concepts of Faith.
Though I agree in large parts, I think the Ethnic tribal peoples who wish to left alone with their spirits/gods should be. ( which is entirely different matter).
SteampunkPagan 1 year ago
as much as you guys want to deny it, the bases of values for western culture is based off of christian values. especially america were the puritan beleifs shaped the way the colonies grew. although a lot of the founding fathers werent christian themselves, the people were christians.
paulinotou 1 year ago
@paulinotou Christians got their ideas from Paganism. Also the golden rule (do unto others...) actually pre-dates all modern religions.
I'm not even sure what your argument is. Your comment doesn't prove the existence of god and it doesn't prove that religion benefits society.
cakeisnotanumber 1 year ago
@cakeisnotanumber hell religion was the bases for western society and culture. you dont need to be a rocket scientist to know thats a fact. and i wasnt proving the existence of god.
paulinotou 1 year ago
@paulinotou "i wasnt proving the existence of god." - Well no-one can prove the existence of god because he doesn't exist.
cakeisnotanumber 1 year ago
@cakeisnotanumber well maybe you're just fucking stupid then
VistaManiac93 1 year ago
This is so hateful.
LinkMEP 1 year ago
amen!
=D
CoqPwner 1 year ago
This is real good.......simple explanation for how people try to control others!!
In the past it was fear.....now we can understand some aspects of fear....we do not have to believe the rhetoric. Fear can be reduced and your life will be free from those attempting to control you with the big reward at the end of the game.
If you want to know what death is like ........just think of all the memories you had before you where born!!
namlook1 1 year ago
I fight religion because of @Ramohog.
incomprehensible14 1 year ago 3
This is one of the most bigoted things I have seen in my entire life.
LinkMEP 1 year ago
@LinkMEP Religious people are more bigoted. Check the bible. It is one of the most bigoted books out there.
cakeisnotanumber 1 year ago
@cakeisnotanumber Religious people are not more bigoted. Don't lie, The Bible is against bigotry, not for it.
LinkMEP 1 year ago
@LinkMEP "Religious people are not more bigoted" - That must be the biggest lie I've ever heard. Religious people are often bigoted, but even if we agree to disagree with that point religion itself, if not it's followers, ARE bigoted. Try reading the ENTIRE bible and not cherrypicking the decent parts.
cakeisnotanumber 1 year ago
@cakeisnotanumber You are supposed to treat everyone as yourself, that is the exact opposite of bigoted. I do not know about non-Christian religions however, but I believe most of the major ones have similar thoughts on this matter.
LinkMEP 1 year ago
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@LinkMEP "You are supposed to treat everyone as yourself, that is the exact opposite of bigoted" - That is the theory but most Christians and religious people don't follow this idea. Look at the Catholic church! Why do you defend religion when it is blatantly useless and indeed dangerous to society?
cakeisnotanumber 1 year ago
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@LinkMEP
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
No bigotry you say?
cakeisnotanumber 1 year ago
This is an awesome video man. I'm going to send this to my devout christian brother. Thank you for saying what I would like to say, but don't know how.
whoopiman 1 year ago
What an excellent video and may I also add that all of its contents I happen to agree with.
naybobdenod 1 year ago
I have no disrespect for anyone who believes in God. However the bible was created by a bunch of people to give guidlines to people for everyday life. Civilization relied heavily on this book and took it way out of hand. Do you really think "god" can keep an eye on over SIX BILLION PEOPLE? God and the bible were thought up to create ORDER.
xKillerWandx 1 year ago
@xKillerWandx "However the bible was created by a bunch of people to give guidlines to people for everyday life." Correct. This is no different from any other text regarding moral philosophy except for the claim that this particular text was divinely inspired and thus pragmatically justified.
"Do you really think 'god' can keep an eye on over SIX BILLION PEOPLE?"
God is defined as omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
ThoseWhoStayUofM 1 year ago
@ThoseWhoStayUofM okay, but people took it way to far and turned it into an occult (religion)
xKillerWandx 1 year ago
@xKillerWandx "okay, but people took it way to far"
Some people did. Evangelical Christians and many Catholics often take it way too far however most Christians don't. Religion is not a bad thing, especially Christianity. It is a source for the majority of good in America. All of your ideas and beliefs regarding good and bad can be traced back to the traditional Judeo-Christian ethic, whether you believe in God or not. If you want an example, look at the American Red Cross (Christian roots)
ThoseWhoStayUofM 1 year ago
@xKillerWandx If anyone has taken something too far, it's FFreeThinker and the unjustifiable hate he espouses in this video.
"Religions original reason for existing was to comfort people during tough times by explaining a phenomena in nature with the thought that whatever was happening was in the hands of an invisible force called God."
This is simply unsubstantiated by any historical evidence and patently not true, yet he expects you all to just accept it without question...
ThoseWhoStayUofM 1 year ago
@ThoseWhoStayUofM to be perfectly honest, god is different for every culture, and if u watch the history channel, they explain that we have been visited by extra terrestrials. there are hyroglyphics of men riding space ships, men in space suits all over the pyramids. that was a depiction of their god. like i said, no disrespect towards people who look up to god, this is just my opinion
xKillerWandx 1 year ago
@xKillerWandx "To be perfectly honest, god is different for every culture."
I'm talking about the Christian God. This video doesn't reference any other god.
"if u watch the history channel, they explain that we have been visited by extra terrestrials."
Yeah... stop watching the history channel... There's a lot of misinformation out there. The Egyptions also depicted some of their kings with elongated skulls, yet they certainly didn't have them in reality (physical evidence).
ThoseWhoStayUofM 1 year ago
@ThoseWhoStayUofM im going to continue watching the history channel because it intrigues me. i dont believe in god, and it will stay that way. you have your opinion, and the rest of the world has theirs
xKillerWandx 1 year ago
@xKillerWandx "I don't believe in god"
That's exceptable. People who require physical proof to justify their beliefs shouldn't believe in God. Since there is no physical proof of his existence, I don't expect people who require it to believe.
"we have been visited by extra terrestrials"
Oh... uh... I guess you're just illogical. At least hold true to your principles. That's all I ask of humanity.
ThoseWhoStayUofM 1 year ago
@ThoseWhoStayUofM okay sounds good....
xKillerWandx 1 year ago
@ThoseWhoStayUofM oh wonderful irony!
nuttylamb 1 year ago
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baccaratbargaineq 1 year ago
Dumbest video in the world. Your argument is completely retarded. Baseless assertions left and right. Completely retarded. Blaming religion for every problem in the world... sweet. Brilliant. There is absolutely zero evidence to support the claim that all religion is about amassing power. Hinduism... yeah... they sure are power hungry. Protestant Christians... oh yeah... because the protestant reformation wasn't founded by the idea of freedom of religion and speech... sweet. morons.
ThoseWhoStayUofM 1 year ago
2:45 is the best picture ever!!!
DuykRuyk 1 year ago
I'm not sure WHO made this video exactly, but I have a few critiques. First of all, I agree with, and enjoy listening to this speaker. However, the video makes many... mistakes is the wrong word, but I would encourage the creator to avoid using quite so many "Lord-Privy-Seals." I'm sure the author knows what this is-- if not, a quick google search will clarify it-- again, I mean absolutely no offense, wonderful video. But, I do encourage some restraint in that area. Cheers.
judaserebus 1 year ago
Great stuff! Well done.
rewtnode 1 year ago
Maybe we should rename the internet to be "god, version 2.0" since most everyone already worships it, and it already meets most of the criteria of a god (knows everything, sees everything, knows more about us than we do, etc, etc.) We could start by translating all the scriptures into RDFa and invite the clergy to develop schema for their interpretation, etc. Even deeply religious people would start using it for the semantic searching and be lured into learning enough about it to doubt it.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
OMG 2:46 is the funniest!!
The pope is the sith leader in spirit and appearance!!!
dj69918 1 year ago
Forgive my belated opinion, but.... BRILLIANT!
sincristo 1 year ago
I <3 Gir
and this is very true.
ScaryTeri101 1 year ago
You propose that you can only come to God by three methods 1. Parents 2. Teacher 3. Psychosis. 1Jn 4:19 WeG2249 loveG25 him,G846 becauseG3754 heG846 firstG4413 lovedG25 us.G2248 .
pgfracing 1 year ago
Why do you compare a believer to an alcoholic?
pgfracing 1 year ago
@pgfracing, it's a metaphor comparing the incapacitating effect (impairing judgement in similar ways) that both alcohol and religion share.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@pgfracing Think.
DjRalfy 9 months ago
1:23 Triple Titties
macafeek215 1 year ago
@FFreeThinker That part about how you cannot have a leader elected without them at least faking religious faith made me think of the recent elections here in the U.K.. I remember watching one of the Q&A sessions with Nick Clegg and he openly said he was "not religious". My point being that he felt free enough to say that without fear of reprisal, I think this goes some way to showing how the people here care more about what the party can actually DO and less of what they believe.
FuckSlice 1 year ago
@FuckSlice definitly! here in america the only thing that counts is the facade,
deafencryption 1 year ago
@deafencryption, for things without substance or utility, the facade is the only active ingredient.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts exactly my point
deafencryption 1 year ago
@deafencryption, But it's a good thing. Because America just happens to be in the business of engineering bigger and better facades. I think Christianity is what best trains us to do that. And given that all we're really robbing is our own future, and that that future seems to belong mostly to the people ignorant enough to behave and reproduce like lemmings there's no real crime. A shame, sure. A loss, of course. But will a swine miss having pearls or even be cognizant of the loss? I doubt it.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts that reasoning kind of reminds me of a quote "in a way, Hitler was a good thing. without him we would have never understood what true hate is and how to curb our appetite for expressing it" in other words -we learn from our evil. our future seems bright. more and more people are tossing their myths for reasonable thoughts and actions. The census shows this
deafencryption 1 year ago
@deafencryption, I think so too. Religion is in its death throes. The internet is like a fiber optic pipeline bringing sunlight into the deepest recesses of human consciousness. The cowardly ignorant fears of our superstitious ancestors that have grown like a smelly fungus over our entire culture are being burnt off by the sterilizing light of honest scrutiny and scientific inquiry. The charlatans and wicked parasites that prey on our fears and ignorance are being discredited and exposed.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts indeed
deafencryption 1 year ago
hello! can somebody help me please, i heard this song on dj remix CD and i don't know the name of the song maybe like that: we can...come, i'll see you again, monday to fight.... The voice of the boy in this song is so different , somebody know this song, ok go my home and thanks so much!
sariaVN 1 year ago
The difference between religion and walking with God is the relationship.you have a personal relationship with God,in religion you just follow man made doctrines.They are not the same.
Altaredbelief 1 year ago
fantastic video!
Altex666 2 years ago
I only know, that I dont know anything...
playaz55555 2 years ago
Great how the internet is spreading the message of atheism. I would never have turned into such a commited atheist if it had not been for the internet.
Azurju 2 years ago
Please stop stating your personal opinion on how religions get started as fact. It is widely debated and there's no consensus.
Also, the drunk person vs. religion person is a horrible analogy in so many ways. Are you seriously saying that religious people shouldn't be allowed to drive cars?
DasKrabbe 2 years ago
Hi DasKrbbe, you seriously need a dash of common sense to understand the difference between a drunkard and a Christian. You have made a terrible mistake of using the wrong analogy to state your personal opinion. By the way, I strongly believe that 'religion' is just a terminology. The truth is that there is no religion at all. It's all about the love relationship between a loving God and His workmanship. Cheers. :)
agracean 2 years ago
You made the terrible mistake of criticizing my analogy, when my post clearly doesn't make any analogies at all.
Please read my post again and reconsider your reply.
DasKrabbe 2 years ago
Hi Das Krabbe, you said "Also, the drunk person vs. religion person is a horrible analogy in so many ways. Are you seriously saying that religious people shouldn't be allowed to drive cars?" Did you write wrongly or maybe, you can explain what you mean by this? Thanks:)
agracean 2 years ago
If you watch the video you'll see he makes the analogy between a drunk person and a religious person. I think that is a horrible analogy. So I am criticizing an analogy, not making one myself.
DasKrabbe 2 years ago
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
agracean 2 years ago
I'm so sick of this "no atheists in foxholes" crap...the next Christian who says the equivalent of that...please take a moment to stop and think...of all the other religions that call YOUR beliefs wrong. You can assert that atheists will believe when we die, but really what are you basing that statement on? Neither you nor anyone else can be in someone's mind when they die. Think about it for a moment and you may understand why we consider you sadly brainwashed.
Belloran24 2 years ago
Hi freethinker, it doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus and His Word or not, the truth of the matter is that He is alive forevermore and He's coming back soon. It is also as good as saying that it doesn't matter if you believe if I exist or not. The solid truth is that I am a human being ans am writing to you. Anyway, in a tsunami or an earthquake, there is no atheist or freethinker. All will behold the power of God! Jesus loves you. :)
agracean 2 years ago
But that's just it... he's always "coming back soon", which is fine and well; but doesn't do anything for those with valid doubts about the existence of something divine in the here and now.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to believe in something or someone, but there's something wrong with trying to enforce a code of morality on people because of those beliefs.
rchodges 2 years ago
Look at your body and can you tell me that nobody created you and you were an accident? There's no need for me to enforce the doctrine of God in you. The universe and all that's in it are the evidence of His existence and sovereignty. Please stop denying the truth. Jesus loves you. :)
agracean 2 years ago
If the code of morality is not established in a person's life or country, there would be immorality and vices, etc. Anyway, Jesus is fair. He created all human beings to be free moral agent or freewill to believe in Him or not. The choice lies with you and you are responsible for it. Choose life. :)
agracean 2 years ago
Free choice means that a person can choose between two things and accept the consequence of those equal but different actions.
Salvation = Accept Jesus and live forever, refuse Jesus and suffer eternally. That's not a choice, that's a threat.
rchodges 2 years ago
All have a choice, yes our salvation rests in Christ, but whats the alternative!! Darwinism equals eternal passing away, none existence, death the opposite of life. Interestingly there is no sweltering damnation in scripture; the scriptures do not speak of literal fire, its representational of an everlasting cutting off. Those who do not accept the Good News (their choice) will experience just that, a cutting off. No threat, we all have choice.
rainydaybluez 2 years ago
Hi rainydaybluez, you have to know that truth is so narrow that there is only one way to enter life eg. 1+1=2. If other human beings on planet earth told you that there are many ways to enter life, you may wish to know that they are liars, because truth cannot be compromised to please everybody. I encourage you to read a book, 'Divine Revelation of Hell', written by Mary K. Baxter, to catch a glimpse of that place of torment, which was created soley for the fallen angels and not man.
agracean 2 years ago
rainydaybluez, you stated: "The scriptures do not speak of literal fire." I take it we are ignoring Luke 16:23-24? The rich man does not seem to be describing seperation from God, he is describing torture.
And yes, if my choice is to believe in a divine entity that is comfortable with eternal punishment for finite crimes, I would choose to not believe.
As an aside, Darwinism (I assume you mean evolution) has nothing to do with belief in a divine entity, only Bible literalism.
rchodges 2 years ago
Luke 16 is an illustration as were all the others, the idea a loving God would burn people in hell is repugnant to say the least
rainydaybluez 2 years ago
@rainydaybluez: Yes, I agree with you that it is a repugnant idea. However, if we are to treat every reference like that as an allegory, how do we know what isn't an allegory? Lazarus was raised from the dead, was that also an allegory?
While I have no issue with believing the Bible was allegorical in nature, once you believe that, religion becomes suspect, as it is housed around the concepts of stories as opposed to truisms.
rchodges 2 years ago
@rchodges
There are a group of illustrations that surround the rich/poorman/Lazarus each of the illustrations start with a Certain Man, Jesus used these illustrations as a teaching aid, from their context they were never meant to be taken literally.
rainydaybluez 2 years ago
@rainydaybluez
And why would Jesus deliver a message about a place of torment? What was Jesus trying to tell those people?
rchodges 2 years ago
Hi rchodges, maybe you should thank God that we are not robots. We are free moral agents. God is fair and just. When you took your last breath on this troublesome planet earth, you have the ultimate choice to hug your loving Creator Who settled the penalty for all your sins and live together with Him or continued to rebell against Him and join those rebels whose preference is the place of torment.
agracean 2 years ago
There are plenty of shortcomings in our body, plenty of things that could have been "designed" better. People can look at random ink on paper and find beauty and symmetry.
The Universe doesn't "prove" a divine entity even though many would like it to.
rchodges 2 years ago
Hi rchodges, you are right to say that we have many shortcomings in our body and especially, our attitude. Sadly, many intelligent people like you are too dumb to investigate what has led to all this imperfections. If the Universe doesn't prove that God exist, then I'm really sorry to say that you are more dumb than all the animals and plants or rather, the other creations of God because they knew the fact and they have no attitude problem. LOL. :)
agracean 2 years ago
@agracean: I'm going to ignore the use of the word "dumb", as it doesn't further conversation. How does the Universe prove a divine entity? Because it exists, God must exist? I certainly don't fault you for accepting that position, but that is a subjective analysis of the world, not an objective one.
I am aware of original sin, which proves God is cruel. To allow his divine creation to manipulate individuals that do not understand deception is truly disturbing.
rchodges 2 years ago
@rchodges: Thanks for reminding me not to use the word "dumb" on fools. LOL. Well, I am a lady and I do suppose that you are a man. The truth is that you are a man and your testes has the ability to produce millions or billions of sperms again after each ejaculation, right? This is not my subjective view but the objective truth. There must be a Creator Who has the ability to create billions of fools like you, who refused to ascribe due glory to Him!
agracean 2 years ago
How do fools behave? They don't know get their facts right and start babble like a babbling fool! LOL. It is more stupid of you to say that God is cruel without searching for the truth. Fools like to point fingers at God for every problems, etc and refused to take responsibility for their follies. :)
agracean 2 years ago
Absolutely totally very well said!!!!!
It's time people wake up!
boaz1144 2 years ago
right on right on!
filthyfun 2 years ago
right on!
jxaxmxixn 2 years ago
I have "changed the locks" to my brain!
ReligiousFiction 2 years ago
Off topic but, the picture at 0:16 is photoshopped, right? The beam going into the windshield would have had to been hanging there with no post connecting it to the ground after the post directly in front of the car.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
It could be that the car took out the post behind the one pictured. I briefly searched some internet images and didn't find this pic. Dunno.
ReligiousFiction 2 years ago
RELIGION WILL" ALWAYS" be prevalent so get used to it!! People are afraid of the thought of nothingness after death! The hope of an eternal bliss after death will ALWAYS keep religion alive!!
99minerkc 2 years ago
Morals evolve like the always have, through social dialogue and lessons learned from history.
And yes we should base further discussions not on ancient scripture and superstitions. No one today would make laws and morals based on Greek mythology, so why should we care for scripture or other religions? I don't deny that religion might have morals to consider, but they should be considered for their value and not the dogma behind it!
I hope i was somehow clear
annata12 2 years ago
I agree on the misuse of religion to gain power. That's well substantiated. The title of the video should have been, "Why fight the misuse of religion?" because you seem to make broad-brush allegations that cannot be substantiated. Are ALL clergy power hungry? Do they ALL have blind followers? Certain sects within Christianity encourage dissension from within to avoid misuse, ICor. 11:19; Rom. 14.
GenRev1611 2 years ago
yeah show me a religion without a set of rules and morals and that's your religion that doesn't wanna control it's followers behavior
annata12 2 years ago
@annata12: Is this a reference to my first question 'Are ALL clergy power hungry?'
Because if it is, then I have to ask,
does simply having rules and morals make clergy power hungry?
Please clarify what your comment was in reference to and how that has to do with what I said about this video.
If you're a freethinker then I'm sure that you were being rational.
GenRev1611 2 years ago
I was implying that religions are intrinsically setup to enact social control! The system that is religion isn't really dependent on clergy actively deceiving their flock, since the ultimate authority lies with a supernatural claim that is removed from any critical questioning. Whether you use this for personal gain or belong to the deluded yourself, doesn't really matter in the end!
annata12 2 years ago
@annata12: What you SAID was religion controls it's FOLLOWERS,
and you're IMPLICATION is that it's for societal control, ie, non-followers.
Two very different matters but I agree can't be completely divorced from one another.
I ask that you back up your BROAD BRUSH allegation that a claim of supernatural authority is REMOVED from ANY critical questioning.
Remember, you said 'ANY' back up your claim.
GenRev1611 2 years ago
The reason you cannot critical question the morals and laws, lies in the nature of the supernatural itself, which is removed from scientific, naturalistic inquiry and solely relies on revelation! Therefore said morals can either only be changed through such revelation, by an earthly authority figure who has enough devout followers, or through social evolution! Look at christian scripture scripture, slavery and misogyny are still intrinsic elements of the bible.
annata12 2 years ago
The Bible didn't change, society did, which did not happen because someone made a critical inquiry and asked god if he still thinks slavery is a good thing!
annata12 2 years ago
@annata12: So then it's your position that moral laws should derive from individual critical thinking that has it's basis in scientific and naturalistic inquiry.
Am I right in stating that?
Also I ask should it's basis be ONLY in these inquiries that you mention in order to have more poignantly correct morals.
In other words, if I base my morals on anything outside these inquiries, will they most likely be incorrect?
GenRev1611 2 years ago
One example! Look at Catholicism. For them to stay relevant in society they adopt more liberal views to fit the Zeitgeist, while saying that's how the bible should always have been interpreted, but look at third world countries and you have a totally different Catholicism, a lot more superstitious much more similar to what i was before the renaissance in Europe !
annata12 2 years ago
@annata12: So would you call evolution the only immutable law?
GenRev1611 2 years ago
I meant evolution just in the context of change and our ability to learn from our past and to contemplate the future. Not evolution as it happens in nature, which is a natural process. If we stopped learning than of course morals would become stagnant, but as long as we learn new things about reality and ourselves our morals too will change
annata12 2 years ago
@annata12: Appreciate your engagement here you seem more up on things that other atheists I've encountered.
You mentioned 'our ability to learn from our past,' that would mean using simple LOGIC am I stating that correctly?
If so, are you familiar with the three subdivisions of the Laws of Logic?
My knowledge in philosophy is limited but I do know a fair amount.
GenRev1611 2 years ago
@annata12 Never received an answer to my question. I'll put it like this. Naturalism is incoherent for the very reason that it denies the metaphysical. From the Christian perspective, laws of logic are metaphysical in nature. If naturalism is true and all of our thoughts and views are a mere result of electrochemical reactions in the brain, then all of our thoughts and views are predetermined by these electrochemical reactions.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 I'll try to help. You made two incorrect assertions. The laws of logic are not metaphysical, and the fact that the brain activity is electrochemical does not mean that thoughts are predetermined. What is your question?
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix RE: What is your question?-You stated that I made two incorrect statements. The way such is determined is by using laws of logic. How is it possible to account for what is true or untrue in an atheistic world view? How do I know what is true today, may not be true tomorrow?
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 "How is it possible to account for what is true or untrue in an atheistic world view? How do I know what is true today, may not be true tomorrow?" That is your question? The answer is no different for an atheist then it is for anyone else. You should probably not call atheism a world view either. It is merely a disbelief in a god claim.
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix I agree that there are differing points of view in the atheistic unbelief if you will. My second question has to do with induction. In that question the atheist can only assume induction, which leads to the first question, how can that which is true and always been true stay true. If one says, it's always been like that, then they assume induction. Therefore they cannot account for it. I hope that sounds clear to you?
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 If I get this correct you are stating that:
Inductive reasoning = required existence of a god
This is a huge leap, and you have done nothing to show any evidence for it. I can induct, and I can assume. the existence of an all powerful god would ruin that in that it could change the rules at any time, so you actually have served to show evidence against the existence of any god.
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix Actually inductive reasoning does not require the existence of 'A GOD' as you put it. If that were the case then yes 'A GOD' can change the rules because pagan gods for example have a mutable nature. Inductive reasoning can only be accounted for if the God that is referred to is immutable. Christianity holds to the doctrine of the immutability of God and a providential nature that is consistant with induction.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 . Therefore Christianity the only coherent position in matters of induction. I never said you CAN'T INDUCT, I said that you cannot account for induction.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 We should probably not discuss the Christian god as it certainly does not exist. Please read a Bible, and you will see what I mean.
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix I see your having trouble defending your view from an epistemological standpoint. I know what's next, you will use laws of logic and inductive reasoning, both of which you cannot account for. And use them to disprove Christianity. Hence you will try to disprove the existence of God by borrowing from a Christian worldview.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@trueleroix If logic and induction are not from a Christian worldview please tell me first how you can account for them before you impose them on the Bible. If you can do this in a coherent fashion, then I'll be glad to have that discussion about the Bible with you.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 Stop right there. You tell me how logic and induction have anything to do with a Christian worldview.
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix First there is the Law of Identity supported of the Nature of God in Exodus 3:14. A is A, a thing or a being is what it is and cannot be anything other. Law of Contradiction supported in 2 Corinthians 1:18 in that God is faithful and cannot lie. The Law of excluded middle supported in Matt. 12:30. Induction Eph. 1:11 "He works all things according to the counsel of his will." The world is governed by laws that are consistent with His nature.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@trueleroix At this point you will tell me to prove this using logic and induction. Now I ask you what does logic and induction have to do with your worldview. How can you account for your use of it? Once you can account for it, then we can get deeper into the Bible. Prove that it is coherent in your view to use laws you cannot account for.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 Forget The Bible. i read that. That God obviously does not exist. If you want to try to speak of a god, let's try one that you have a chance with. The Hebrew God...Holy Crap, come, on...You have read The Bible...There is no way...
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix You want the luxury to disprove God when all the while you do so, you use inductive and deductive reasoning. I've asked you repeatedly, how is it that you can even account for these very forms of reasoning you boast of using to disprove God? Reasoning itself by nature requires THE CONCEPT OF ABSOLUTE TRUTH, and the assumption that such a concept exists. Until you can answer that, your attempts to disprove God will be feeble.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 Stop it! It is impossible to disprove the existence of any god and you know it. I have never said that I could or would do that. You need to be more honest if you want to deal with me. I know that it's tough for you, seeing that you lie to yourself so much, but try harder, you may become slightly less of a bold faced liar over time and even a slightly honest person with a strong effort.
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix I admit, I did jump the gun and I'm guilty of a red herring by misrepresenting your position. You obviously believe that there is just not ENOUGH evidence for the existence of a DEITY. I stand corrected. What I'm stating is that all the while you use laws of reasoning in order to make your case for lack of evidence. You fail to realize that you first need to account for such laws. I'm still waiting for the answer to my question. How do you account for these laws?
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 Thanks for bringing it back...I assume that any given universe that any sentient beings would have some laws of physics...maybe different, or maybe the same as our known universe, but I would not cite some intelligence for their existence.
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix Well in conclusion I'll state that the problem with agnostic/atheists approach to weigh the proofs/lack there of for God's existence is just that. To weigh these proofs using empirical methods is just as naive as using them to weigh proofs to validate/invalidate inductive/deductive reasoning. For one must use these laws of reasoning in order to begin dialogue. It is my position then that the laws utilized...
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@trueleroix ...in induction/deduction are consistent with the nature and attributes of the Christian God. These universal concepts that arrive us to ABSOLUTE TRUTH therefore can only be accounted for with in Christian theistic thinking. This is what's called the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God. That is without God, you cannot prove anything. And by the way, I wasn't referring to laws of physics.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611
Say WHAT? I hope you're not tryingto say believing in "god" leads to "absolute truth." that would be plain ludicrous.
Bordann 1 year ago
@Bordann How do you account for the Law of Logic ie, deductive reasoning?
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611
Law of Logic is a book. And religion is out of bounds when using the principles of logic since religion cannot be argued. Also, deductive arguments are valid or invalid, sound or unsound, but are never false or true. Therefore there is no "absolute truth" from the standpoint of logic.
Basically, believing in an imaginary being does not give you any more knowledge about the real workings of the world than you would have from Not believing in a made up entity.
Bordann 1 year ago
@Bordann
Even religious scholars can't agree on the meanings of passages in the bible. Nor can christians agree on what is literal or what is metaphorical. Of course, why would your "god" have man write out a religious text with metaphors rather than straight truth. Surely he'd want it to have ONE meaning only. BUt then you all couldn't flip flop on your beliefs and what the writings mean. Like how it's apparently okay to sell your daughter into slavery.
Bordann 1 year ago
@Bordann First about the slavery issue, 'cause folks get tripped up with that. Distinctions must be made between the 19th century and those of biblical times. Mostly slavery was due to the lack of ability of paying off debts and slaves for the most part in history slaves were not treated like those of the 19th century. They were treated with decency but still somewhat as property since they owed great debt.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 Secondly, why argue for the dignity of even the 19th century slaves if on your worldview, assuming you're a materialist, you cannot account for why people should be treated with dignity.
Thirdly, elaborate what you said, "the Law of Logic is a book." Can Laws of Logic be empirically proven to be universal. How do you account for it's universality.
GenRev1611 1 year ago
@GenRev1611 Would've answered your second part sooner if you had replied to me, not yourself. 1) I argue about the rights of people (against slavery) because slavery is detrimental to humankind as a species and goes against equality. And slavery has most often involved degradation, especially in tribal and war-prone cultures. 2) There is a book that is named the Laws of Logic. The laws of logic are a standard set that are used by all modern logicians. I hope that answers your questions.
Bordann 1 year ago