Lessons from Reagan and Thatcher - PM John Howard

[Benju3148]

@mlawren7 The GST.

[mlawren7]

"Liberal economics, globalisation, lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty." So why to this day do most Australians believe these are Liberal Party agendas when it was Whitlam who reduced tariffs by 25%, it was Hawke/Keating who reduced them further, doubled productivity and opened trade and international banking. Everybody associates these things with the Coalition, when none of it was. What key liberal economic reform did Howard introduce? Anyone... anyone?

[wickedguy333]

Best PM Australia ever had

[mlawren7]

@wickedguy333 It's easy to look good when you get a free ride.

[kevinherbert]

This dirty little prick...a neocon arse licker...out of his depth emotionally & politically..he should be gaoled for allowing 2 Aussies to be held without charge & tortured...I'd spit in his face if the chance arose.

[okesaita]

Agreed. It's a mess!! We need Reagan and Thatcher-like people in power, again.

[mojorhythm]

Oh my god. This interviewer is so fucking partisan and shamelessly obsequious it makes me wanna vomit uncontrollably.

[leonithe]

@mojorhythm What exactly did he say that was wrong, though? Because of most of what Howard had to say was no response (which he was the absolute master of): of course, we could take a "long-term" view like "Honest John" (HA!): but, as Keynes once said-by then, we'll all be dead...

[Krazyeyeskilla]

can't wait for him to die...and thatcher too ofcourse...oh yeah, hopefully Piers Akerman will have a nice slow and painful, that goes for his moron fanboys on his blog, they should all die painfully of syphillus

[Sipatbana]

@luneco100 Incorrect as usual what you leftists advocate is Monetrine Economics that has failed constantly. But all you have got is attack on the Rich and nothing more to add. Pathetic leftist idiot when will the likes of yourself give up this useless attack of class warfare. it serves no purpose except shows your total misunderstanding of Economic processes. Basically wealth trickles down fool not up and as such stimulates economies and creates jobs. Your ideas on the other hand have FAILED

[sean151291]

@luneco100 why are they a party for the rich?

[SkullOfYorick]

How could the Aussies throw out John Howard? I wish we had a properly conservative PM in Britain. David Cameron and the 'Conservatives' subscribe to cultural Marxism, and that's before we even get on to the 'Liberal Democrats', who are neither liberal nor democratic.

[girlznguitarz]

She also killed the steel works and the coal mines, Margaret Thatcher a prostitute to the evil Pinochet, he was one of her advisors...Free Markets and the demise of the poor. Margaret Thatcher piece of evil.....whore. Lifted people out of poverty????? Bollocks, killed those who were already impoverished. All basic comodities food etc., went up in price overnight that the poor could not afford even a bit of bread, rice etc.....stop talking through your arse Howard. Thousands died.

[403766]

@girlznguitarz

I'm pretty sure thats not what it was like...

[girlznguitarz]

@403766 You're pretty sure???? Goodness do the research.....ask The Scottish nation what Maggie Thatcher did to Scotland....Pinochet the dictator and people murderer was one of her advisors...what part of that dont you get?

[403766]

@girlznguitarz

I could wirte for hours how selctive you are being but all i have to say is the country would have turned into what greece isnow without her and our standard of living would be shit, inflation was 26.3% when she took over and the fact remains that labour is incapable of managing an economy, she SAVED us, there was obviously goin to be people who suffered whoever took over as it was in such a state already, she gave the poor a better standard of living, and got voted 3 times in

[MrReco12]

@girlznguitarz

Thathcer also doubled poverty!

[millertas]

The world might be better for him. OPEN YOUR EYES YOU DILL. There are extremely poor people in your country. Or are you like Marie Antoinette "why don't they eat cake."

[cityviagranville]

China did a damned good job of buying Australian Primary resources

[chickenhouse]

John Howard was so despised in Australia that he lost his own seat in the 2007 election. Why listen to this cunt?

[SirDeliciously]

@chickenhouse Because he and Costello left Australia in a VERY good position.

13 years of labour in the UK compared to 11 Years of economic conservatism in Australia, which turned out best? Australia by far. So why do people listen to him? Cos he did a damn good job.

[TheSwearingBear]

@SirDeliciously Because he and Costello left Australia in a VERY good position.

Gifted to them by Keating. If it was up to those dullards we would be a third world economy. What did they do to improve the economy? Tell me one thing.

[SirDeliciously]

@TheSwearingBear

-Payed back $90,000,000,000 debt

-Reduced capital gains tax to 15%

-Reduced income taxes

-Signed many free trade agreements

-Left Australia as the second most free market economy (behind Singapore)

-Significant deregulation

-WorkChoices (don't bother giving me a trade unionist rant)

[TheSwearingBear]

@SirDeliciously

-Payed back $90b debt - very rubbery figures,but Howard was always good at that

-Reduced capital gains tax - bullshit, but either way, if you can't spell 'paid' I doubt you have benefited from that

-Reduced income taxes - rubbish. The top rate was reduced but it was all offset by the GST

-Signed many free trade agreements - with who?

-Left Australia as the second most free market economy - bullshit

-Significant deregulation - more bullshit

-WorkChoices - yeah, he did that

[sean151291]

@TheSwearingBear better howard than rudd or gillard

[05kinjac]

@TheSwearingBear

i don't like the point you raise about the GST;

The lower income tax rate was to incentivise work; the introduction of the GST was to pay back the debt, shrink excess consumption whilst not affecting employment; an economically sound move.

[TheSwearingBear]

@05kinjac BTW, who said this..."We would be foolish indeed to ignore the accumulated scientific evidence that mankind's behaviour has contributed to the process of global warming … Australia will continue to lead internationally on climate change, globally and in the Asia-Pacific region."

J.W. Howard. I never thought I'd see the day when I would look back nostalgically at the enlightened Howard Government - but that's how far down the toilet the Liberal Party has fallen.

[Ikazi]

@SirDeliciously

Everything you've said is bullshit. I'm not sure if you're being serious. Because if you are, I have sad news for you. Most of the things you listed were positive outcomes of the Keating government who deregulated and reformed most of the economy. The thing Howard achieved was shifting us from a manufacturing based nation to a services one. Not at the benefit of Australia I will tell you.

[Adski91]

@Ikazi Unless we adopted something similar to the US with no minimum wages to compete with China and other third world countries that was never going to be an option for a government. The only way you can manufacture in developed countries is through brand building and value adding which is something only private enterprise can achieve. Germany is going against the grain on this one because of that. If you read anything from the 1980s onwards on the topic you'd know all this.

[UweSchenker]

@chickenhouse because he was PM for thirteen years and allowed (through less involvement in the economy, not more) our country to prosper. Rudd was PM for 18 months before his own party and deputy fucked his shitpipe and ousted him. I certainly won't be listening to Rudd or to that lying, firebreathing Gillard any time soon. 

[Wallabytrack]

@chickenhouse Well said,trouble is the Pompeous puppet headed cunt keeps turning up everywhere telling everyone how good he was,His Obama not getting elected no way prediction,was a good shot in the foot after the yanks howled him down and told him to mind his own business,Good Riddance,to the arrogant little twat!

[Krazyeyeskilla]

There’s some occasions, some special events You could say they were heaven sent They engrave the stones with Roman numerals My favourite ones… They’re Tory Funerals Conservative Ministers or Tory MPs There’s one sure way for them to please They can call me a bastard, call me a red In return… Just drop dead Tory Funerals… Tory Funerals I want more of Tory Funerals Tory Funerals… Tory Funerals I want more of Tory Funerals

[Krazyeyeskilla]

MAGGIE HURRY UP AND DIE’

[Gahillbillyusa]

I know when Carter was in office everybody was out of work couldnt get a job for nothing. I remember them saying one job opened up in town and 30,000 people applied for it. I finally got a job walking steel with out a safety belt cutting it down behind me. But it was there and i took it. $4 an hour. Reagan came into office job were everywhere I moved to a job making $8 an hour watching a computer screen. I couldnt stand just setting there so i moved to a job trimming trees. Obama same as Carter.

[Krazyeyeskilla]

thatcher, reagan and howard: three of the biggest cunts to ever walk the earth.



[wellwell395]

@Krazyeyeskilla perfect

[McDooodle]

@Krazyeyeskilla but not as big a cunt as you

[Krazyeyeskilla]

@McDooodle

no way, they are far worse than me

[ERRIN2000]

Former Prime Minister.

[justpostit]

FORMER prime minister... when he was treasurer he didn't deregulate.. it was labor that made the hard decisions under hawke and keating.

[liber8me]

labor made the hard decisions? not really by that stage they had no choice but to deregulate the market in order to be competitive with the global economy.

rudd is such a hypocrite, on one hand he attacks neo-liberals saying they ruined the world by trying to free up markets and on the other hand he PRAISES bob hawke for the work he did deregulating the market

[smoochym]

"they ruined the world by trying to free up markets "

Yes, and North Korea and Iran are perfect economic models...

What planet are you on?

[JamesBinns]

The interviewer here is dead right. We here in Britain have a Prime Minister who is a Socialist that has utterly no competence or thought as to what he is going. We had it best under Thatcher, and there are many today who would like to see her back in office. Baroness Thatcher had more balls then most of the men in Politics at the time she was governing the country. What the people want is to go back to what Conservatism stood for in the 1980's - which in Britain means to go forward!

[Zarathustra06]

@JamesBinns The irony of course, JamesBinns, is that Thatcher initiated the very neoliberal, anti-interventionist, small government impulse which was adopted and bolstered by New Labour, will be further espoused by Cameron, and which is incontrovertibly tied to the current situation of Britain's broken economy. We had it best under Thatcher? Any idea what unemployment levels were like during the Thatcher years?

[AussiePolitics]

you do realised that you claimed that small government and anti-interventionism was part of new labour. what a load of crap - they've been the complete opposite.

did you really think that a politician like thatcher comes to office goes "right we're neoliberal now so the economy is instantly fixed" obviously it was a long process of reform.

[cambohof81]

I miss Howard. Probably the best PM we ever have had.

[synkronyk]

Howard is a lying, obsequious fucking rodent.

[despotika]

thank god someone is keeping howard occupied and away from australia.

[garvess]

I hate Peter Robertson.

[foogler17]

1. Your reading my comment 2. Now your saying/thinking thats a stupid fact. 4. You didnt notice that i skipped 3. 5. Your checking it now. 6. Your smiling. 7. Your still reading my comment. 8. You know all you have read is true. 10. You didnt notice that i skipped 9. 11. Your checking it now. 12. You didnt notice there are only 10 facts Copy and paste to 1 video, tomorrow will be your best day ever! no matter what

[Slug99]

i think the young guy has to be more specific with what he means by "worked". Did it bring more wealth to the countries over all, meaning increase the GDP? Of course, but very few benefited from it. Profits in most companies shot through the roof but wages paid out was pretty much the same.

[Krazyeyeskilla]

I would hardly say that China is a liberal economy. They have liberalised their economy, bt it is not a liberal economy. The liberalisation has also been extremely unpopular with inductrial labourers and agricultural labourers. It has also seen the environment degraded further and income inequality rise. Any protests against such liberalisation are shut down, for example Tianimin Square.

Howard is like a parrot. He just regurgitates text book right wing crap

[Krazyeyeskilla]

Howard is the biggest cunt in Australia's history

[seamoremonster]

So brief, so concise, and tooooooo bloody true!

[liber8me]

so immature. at least howard managed the economy better then any labor pm has managed

[seamoremonster]

So arrogant and so ill-informed. Howard managed the fear factor for the gullible, the ignorant and the greedy. Your funny little man was so limited, so vile, so bigoted he made Pauline Hanson redundant. Go back to Barkers or Scotts and see if they can teach you anything other than your haughty elitism...and your funny little man was the last bastion of support for the Bush Regime...a regime that invaded sovereign states and practiced torture.

[liber8me]

you know why the australian economy is doing so well at the moment? because we went into it with billions of dollars in SURPLUS. we'd have been absolutely screwed if we'd gone into it with the economy in the state that howard inherited it.

[liber8me]

actually the main fear factor that howard was good at exploiting was people's fear of what labor DID TO THE ECONOMY.

didnt you see the liberal campaign ads? all they basically did was just compare the economy under liberal and then under labor and guess what? the liberals won easily every damn time.

[k166a]

I liked te endlessly spinny youtube downloading mark in the center of the video. It kept me entertained for the entire 3 minutes.

[thane17]

Its a good point, will be interesting to see how that plays out. They ARE definitely cuting some major corners as they gain prosperity. They also are playing their economics frighteningly well. They are buying up natural resources all over the world.

[GreenDesert]

Whos is "they"?

[thane17]

China

[thane17]

At what cost are they raking in this money? They are probably the most economically sound country in the world right now. Granted, they have major issues, but when we look around we see most other nations are hugely leveraged and with no production capacity to dig their way out. China has massive production capacity. People say they depend on us, consider the fact that they borrowed the money to us so we can buy their goods. In reality they haven't seen a cent from us yet.

[EnterNameHere55]

wait wasnt it Reagan who started blowing the economic bubble that just popped? why would we just start blowing another one? sure well be fine for the next 20 years but then its just going to pop again then were back were we started

[thane17]

I think 20 years is a little optomistic. I would guess maybe one or two years. I think as it starts going down again more quickly it will accelerate and we will see the collapse of the American Economy bubble this time and it wont be pretty.

[ozzsihing]

This bloke can't walk the streets in his own country. Mind you ... his replacement is no better.

[humanist7117]

The 2000's aew not the 1980's.

[bluegsp]

Gabiotta, Strong language reveals a weak mind. I dont expect you to understand United States politics, I am sure you probably get your news from Comedy Central. Bush did not cause this economic crisis, it was the liberals and the Community Redevelopment Act. You arent really interested in the truth though are you, propogandist like you would make Himmler blush.

[bluegsp]

Guys like gabiotta like to rewrite history. this is a typical liberal ploy, take what works and simply say it didn't work, in the U.S., the libs still like to try to say that Jimmy Carter was a great president, and when you ask them why, they will say something like, "he was the first one to put solar panels on the white house". Well these same simpletons are once again in control and we will be headed for the Carter style "melays" of recession and depression

[gabiotta]

And what will be the legacy of the Bush administration?

A debt to China you will never be able to pay off, global depression and a couple of bushfire wars that will never be won.

Still i suppose you have shares in a bodybag manufacturer so there will be presents under the tree for your kids this Christmas.

Guys like me, fuck you, you soundbite puking turd swallower.

[liber8me]

oh and the republicans and the democrats have been excessively deregulating the markets for decades. this calamity has just been waiting to happen

[gabiotta]

Oh, and goodnight, i'm going to bed.

[thane17]

Are you serious? Can't tell if you are sarcastic or not. There has only been an increase in regulation since Reagan.

[felixq78]

To think that the Australian people voted for this piece of shit over and over. The arsehole held onto power for 11 years, getting us, once again, involved in other people's wars. Was he involved with the Bali false flag event? Who knows! He's never bothered to find out what really happened.

For many years we rejected this prick at the polls, eventually, the fickle nature of the Australian voter worked in his favour. When do we get a man like Kennedy?

In this country such a man would last.

[liber8me]

actually you rejected him once at the polls, then in 96 he won pretty much by default thanks to how badly keating was hated and what he'd done to ruin the economy.

you know why people voted for him? because he ran the country well. he only sent a tiny number of troops compared to other nations because of our treaty obligations with america.

[lynchmobb2000]

Fuck Reagan and Fuck Thatcher

[mikezephyr]

these repugnant reactionary scum have all the money in the world for weaponry but none for livingry as buckminster fuller put it.

only the most naive or misinformed knows the billions of $ spent per hour in the early days of the invasion of afghanistan and iraq would not be otherwise committed to enhancing democracy or the public realm. sickening.

[nedlund]

we see what governments and bussinees can do . they got people to believe u can live like the rich people. the leftwing have said this is not the way

[mikezephyr]

the only appropriate response to today is to confront the crisis of  class.

anything short of questioning the entire system for something revolutionary is spineless.

[gabiotta]

What Thatcher did was perform a disgusting social experiment, the outcome of which was to improve the lot of her power base and destroy the lives and communities of the people who had the temerity to vote for those who opposed her. I fail to see why we should look to her or that pillock Reagan (probably the only US president to make Bush look intelligent), for any kind of example.

[liber8me]

actually what thatcher did was make everyone more wealthy.

what happens when labour are in is that everyone's wealth is closer together because they make everyone on the whole POORER

[gabiotta]

What she did was decide that it would be better for middle England if we bought our commodities from abroad rather than producing them ourselves, simply because paying benefits would be cheaper. The result was to produce an underclass in this country who are dependent on social security. The role of government is to make the lives of its citizens better, not to serve the interest of big business. Oh, and please don't give me that trickle down bullshit, none has trickled to the north east.

[liber8me]

actually you'll find that everyone was better off and wealthier by the time she retired.

socialism wants everyone to be equal by keeping them all equally POOR. you can see the effects on your economy after a decade of labour in power.

[gabiotta]

Actually you'll find that she did't retire, she was ousted by her own party because the government was failing. I also don't remember defending socialism so don't play that cheap card with me. As for everybody being wealthier it simply isn't true. Many did benefit, many more were driven into penury. I understand that you will shape the facts to fit your agenda, but i'm afaid you don't know what you are talking about and it is painfully obvious.

[liber8me]

actually she did retire from politics - she quit her constitutency. its common knowledge her party ousted her.

her government was failing? actually she turned the UK economy around, even when she retired the labor members acknowledged the good work she had done for the economy, but cricised her for the gap between the richest and the poorest widening, despite everyone, even the poorest being better off then before she came to power

[gabiotta]

Look at you, doing exactly what i said. Ignore the fact that the labour party gave us a decade of unpresedented growth (i am not a labour voter btw), ignore the fact that the actions of the Bush government have left the world heading into a depression and look back on your little heroes and cherry pick the facts to fit your selfish ideology. Really pathetic.

[liber8me]

yes, a decade of unprecidented growth and yet somehow the british economy went into this recession the worst prepared of all the major industrial nations and your national debt is of the same level it was during the first world war.

[gabiotta]

Okay okay, i get you are feeling a little like a dinosaur and you are thrashing around.

[wervasdeferens]

It was their overall philosophy that is flawed. "laissez-faire capitalism,supply-side or Trickle down economics."

Basically what Reagan and Thatcher accomplished was the largest transfer of wealth to the top in recent history.

Notice who is fighting reforms now,the people at the top.

In the game Monopoly,at the very start is socialism.The game itself is capitalism. One person owns everything in the end ,but the game is over for everyone..

Including the top 1%.

[seamoremonster]

Exactly! The seeds of our current economic problems were sown by Reagan and Thatcher. Howard was voted out of office by an overwhelming majority. The only reason he kept office for so long was that he resorted to fear mongering just like the Bush administration. People in Australia woke up to the fact that there was Boogey Man...it was John Howard just like the people in the US woke up that the real Boogey Men were Bush and Cheney.

[lennhart]

seamoremonster, you are ABSOLUTELY correct. The question is: are people capable or even willing to learn the lessons of history. In America, for example, the right wing hasn't yet figured out that it was THEIR policies that have resulted in astronomical deficits throughout the Reagan/Bush years and again with Bush.

Democrats held the White House in only eight out of the last some thirty years. It was GOP policies that shifted wealth UPWARD, it was GOP policies bankrupted the nation.

[liber8me]

by an overwhelming majority? excuse me?

only barely over 1% more people actually VOTED for the labor party at the election.

[seamoremonster]

Why should I excuse you? I don't even like you. How many members does your Liberal Coalition have in parliament? And your petty little silver spoon in hte mouth Malcolm can do nothing but parrot the stupidity of the US Republican Party by being obstructionist...and by the way...I didn't vote Labor...I voted Green. Your funny little man couldn't even retain his own seat. Choke! Snicker, snicker, snicker.

[liber8me]

wow, all you have to offer is pathetic insults.

turnbull has a silver spoon in the mouth?

no, turnbull started with nothing and worked for his money. rudd had his wife shove the million dollar silver spoon in his mouth.

guess what? howard was voted into power originally because keating was so hated howard gained almost 55% of the vote.

do you know why howard was never as hated as keating? because he didnt give us the worst recession australia since the great depression

[seamoremonster]

Actually i thought my insults were pretty good. And I suppose you're going to try and tell me that Rudd was responsible for the crash in the economy? Now..that's pathetic...Turnbull started with nothing? No maybe John did...but you know so did Richard Nixon...I'm sorry you i suppose you sanctioned the Children Overboard bullshit too? Just like many Americans would like to forget WOMD and Water boarding...but hey...they had an ally in Johnny...

[liber8me]

i never said that rudd was responsible, i said that the reason the australian economy is so strong compared to other nations is because of HOWARD.

and yes, turnbull did start with nothing. rudd had his wife work for his money.

btw guess what genius? all politicians lie. keating used lies to win the 93 election very well. what you judge them on is how well they did during their time in office and guess what? keating = worst recession since the great depression. howard = a decade of growth.

[seamoremonster]

Actually i didn't hate Keating. I didn't really hate Howard...just didn't like him very much. Like I said in another post...he simply made Pauline redundant...And look I know you conservatives like to think you're great fiscal managers...another myth that you perpetrate...So tell me who floated the dollar on the open markent? Who cemented trade relations with China?

[liber8me]

yes, keating floated the dollar in 1983. he also created a trade imbalance which in his own words risked australia becoming a "bananna republic".

in the 7 years leading up the the worst recession in australia since the great depression we had the record sustained interest rate rises since the great depression, and to top it off, after the recession we had slow economic growth and billions in debts.

yes, well done hawke/keating.

[seamoremonster]

Yes. Well done Hawke and Keating...you set the stage for the mining boom and the huge resource market to China...and then Howard took credit when things righted themselves. And you're right...Howard used the economy as a fear factor in addition to other factors. And like I said he made Pauline redundant...You Libs will have to live that down...The Children Overboard...the lies about it...also the alliance with Bush and Cheney.

[liber8me]

set the stage for the mining boom?

oh, i get it, if all you managed to do during your 13 years in office is give us record interest rates, recession, trade imbalances and debt, you claim the credit for the way howard managed the economy.

[seamoremonster]

Yeah.  It's called vision. You know hard work, hard times, will eventually pay off. They certainly did for Howard...except it wasn't his hard work! ... You seem to be avoiding some of the other issues...you know? Children overboard...War in Iraq...sycophantic smooching with GWB...

[liber8me]

there are several reasons why a nations sovereignty can be retracted. repeated aggression against neighbouring states, human rights abuses, crimes against humanity (genocide) and fooling around with weapons proliferations treaties.

iraq has done them all multiple times and yet all the UN has done is just ask them to stop.

bush had intelligence that iraq had WMDs and if saddam had nothing to hide why didnt he let UN weapons inspectors in some areas?

[synkronyk]

There is no evidence, nor was there ever any evidence to show that there were any WMD in Iraq.

[seamoremonster]

History will not treat Howard well. Even Malcolm Fraser disowned him.

[liber8me]

lol actually history will treat howard very well when you compare what him to keating.

keating didnt have vision. all he did was SPEND SPEND SPEND, put us billions of dollars into debts and give us a recession.

hard work and hard times? WTF? you really think a recession was keatings hard work?

this is the 13 years of labor rule summed up: record interest rate rise after record interest rate rise, then worse recession in 60yrs, then slow economic growth. ZERO VISION

[liber8me]

oh and yes people were afraid - they were afraid of what labor was going to do to the economy again like the last time they were in office.

keatings lied. rudd lied before he even got into office. plus rudd wants to censor the internet which makes him an absolute douche and i promise i would be opposed to either party wanted to censor the internet

[synkronyk]

Bullshit. The macro economic reforms instigated by Keating were directly responsible for the record which Howard claims. Filthy, lying rodent scum,.

[liber8me]

actually keating helped create a trade imbalance, refused to reduce government spending which meant higher interest rates so it was the home owners who suffered because of his incompetence having to pay off their home loans at record rates. oh did i mention he gave us the worst recession since the great depression?

its sad isnt it. when labor failed so utterly during their time in office what do their supporters do? claim credit for howards work.

[synkronyk]

What utter bullshit.

The macro economic reforms which were made during the period in which Keating was treasurer were the only reason that our economy was able to flourish during the resource boom.

Howard has been the most incompetent treasurer this country has ever seen. Keating had vision. Necessary infrastructure was invested in, spending which was neccessary was carried out.

[liber8me]

the only way we were able to flourish during the boom? of course, how else to get money during a boom?

get over yourself, keating severely neglected the economy. he had his own ambitious plans that he wanted to do and he didnt care about the economy during his time in office. the economy became strong only AFTER keating was long gone

[synkronyk]

Howard significantly neglected essential infrastructure in favour of some misguided belief that a budget surplus was more important, and created the largest trade deficit the country has experienced.

Keating did far more good for the economy than howard ever did.

Sure the economy became strong after keating BECAUSE of the reforms which Keating introduced. This is indisputable.

[synkronyk]

The bullshit that howard was a good economic manager is typical of blind morons like you.

He sold something we already owned back to us. This was the single most offensive and shortsighted move he made during his tenure - telstra.

He significantly increased the trade deficit, yet we hear nothing about this.

[liber8me]

keating sold off a lot of things as well - they all did. didnt stop us getting the worst recession since the great depression or the highest interest rates in australian history.

[liber8me]

oh so when keating was in power and he severely neglected the economy giving us record debt, interest rates and the worst recession in 60 years thats ok, because over a decade after keating made those reforms howards work can all be attributed to him.

[synkronyk]

No. When keating was treasurer under hawke, he was forced to deal with the atrocious state of the economy left to him after howard got his rodent claws into it.

A recession is somethimes necessary if it brings about the implementation of new structures. Keating did what needed to be done, its as simple as that.

He DID NOT neglect the economy. Howard ius wand was the one who neglected ESSENTIAL INFRASTRUCTURE projects so they could bullshit about a budget surplus. YOu fail history.

[liber8me]

keatings reforms like floating the dollar happened in 1983. since then we had nothing but high interest rates. 7 years later we get the worst recession in 60 years. well done keating! then we have extremely slow economic growth and high debt.

so then when howard finallly took over and reformed the IR laws, market regulation and tax system is all keatings doing. seriously, all australia ever got from that idiot was hardship

[synkronyk]

fuck off moron.

Howard bears direct responsibility for the fucked up situation we find ourselves in BEACAUSE OF INSUFFICIENT REGULATION.

Keating has been the ONLY politician over the past 40 years who has had integrity, intelligence, a backbone and the stones to take hard decisions.

I suggest that not only does your grammar reflect your level of education, but so does blind faith in moronic conservatives like howard and fraser.

[liber8me]

I'd say that you're petty personal insults reflect your own education quite well.

and actually you're right, howard is the reason why we find ourselves in this situation. you know why? because in 1997 he established a regulatory institution for all banks and financial institutions. that is why none of our banks went under. howard is the reason we went into this mess so strongly. i shudder to think the shit we'd been in if rudd had to inherit the economy that howard did

[synkronyk]

get a PhD and then discuss it fuckwit.

[liber8me]

lol your petty insults show so much about the mentality of an ALP supporter.

i really do feel sorry for you. with all the arguments you lose it must really suck supporting labor.

[synkronyk]

Reformed IR laws?? What utter fucking rubbish.

Howard wished to return the masses of our country to indentured service to the business owners. The rights which we hold in the workplace ar there because we fought for them. To have a deceitful hypocrite like cOward johnny attempt to forcefully remove them from us all the while telling us its for our own benefit will never be allowed.

The middle class welfare howard encouraged will cripple our economy within 10 years.

[liber8me]

no, keatings IR laws were crippling the workforce, people still remember when that idiot was forcing compulsory union membership. apprentices who made $90 a week had to spend $5 of their pay each week being forcfully part of a union.

its so sad watching you try to justify the way keating screwed up.

[synkronyk]

Compulsory unionism is a MUST in any advanced and civilised society. It prevents the bosses from dividing and splintering the workforce and ensures not only safe working conditions but that fair remuneration is given for fair amounts of work.

Admittedly, there are some people who should not be involved int he running of these groups, but similarly there are pollies who should have nothing to do with power or authority. The rodent howard is only of of these people.

[liber8me]

is a must? so in a free society to earn a living you must be forced to pay a union to keep your job?

if people want to join a union it should be of their own free will. why should they pay money and then have the union spend it anyway it deems fit?

[synkronyk]

Yes. Is a must.

It ensures that the collective desires of the workers are met and despite the fact that it undercuts the personal greed and backstabbing which people engage in when out fro themselves, encourages a thought to others in a similar position as yourself. If they operated as they should, the individual contributor should govern how the money is spent. Again the addition of people into a system corrupts it/

[liber8me]

the collective desires of the workers?

oh you mean competition! the basis of capitalism.

obviously because you want everything to be equal for everyone so they can all be equally poor.

forcing people to spend their money to be a part of a union which spends the money in ways the people dont approve of is in itself corrupt. if you have optional membership then the union will be forced to perform actions its members want and are beneficial.

[Krazyeyeskilla]

@liber8me

haha...moron!

[liber8me]

the most deceitful name?

lol and there you go again displaying your own ignorance.

maybe someday when you understand what liberalism is and its history you'll stop making stupid comments.

[synkronyk]

Yes. Conservatives calling themselves liberal is hypocritical and deceitful.

I'm well aware of what liberalism is. Unfortunately, the Liberal party of australia seems to have forgotten.

The only stupid person around here is you. It seems to be not only organic, but by choice as well.

[liber8me]

yet again you show your own ignorance. when liberalism originated it was a very radical ideology. but guess what it did? it ESTABLISHED ITSELF. and with every success it became more and more conservative.

classical liberalism in australia is shown more in the liberal party ideology then it ever has in the labor party.

[synkronyk]

Established itself and due to its continual ambulation towards the more conservative, became the very opposite of what it had originally embodied.

You highlight the problem very well.

[liber8me]

no. conservatism means that you you keep things that work the way they are.

liberalism works. once it had been established, liberals became conservative. that is why they are called the liberal party. once again you show your complete lack of understanding.

[liber8me]

stop going on about the state of the economy under howard as treasurer. if you had seen the pile of shit he inherited from that idiot whitlam you would have loved him. when he took over inflation was running at a record 17%!!!!!!!! that is rediculous.

and no, what howard did was stop the government fucking up the economy so people could get on with their lives without having to worry about record high interest rates or a horrible recession

[synkronyk]

conversation is finished. You're a fuckwit.

[synkronyk]

Fuck off idiot. I'm neither a labor nor a liberal (the WORST deceitful name for a political party in history) party supporter.

The entire lot of the cunts in politics are liars.

The only people we need in a deomocracy are those who don't want to be there.

Anyone else isn;t there for the good of hte country, but to pad their own retirement, and maintain a personal grasp on power.

[liber8me]

you do realise that the conservative idea of smaller government is the entire basis of classical liberalism

[NetzKaiser]

Yes, "conserative" in this context belong to the society of Great Britain and USA before 1900. That is conserativism like I like him.

[mattybmattyb]

@liber8me - they refer to it as neoliberalism!!

[DonCervantes]

@liber8me You are correct. I'm happy to see that at least one other person is well read - Adam Smith, Anne-Robert Turgot, and John Locke would be proud.

[ferrozm]

Reagan and Thatcher are not a paragon of small government thats complete bull shit.

[ducksoup2007]

Thatcher is the spawn of satan i now live in the country that she fucked up if their is any lessons to be learned is people like her should never be allowed in to power

[mikezephyr]

the new right is pretty much dead however.

the last vestige here in canada is harper, and he had to become essentially a social democrat or lose power.

[ducksoup2007]

thank you also i have this point to make as well deregulation of markets bank etc has all lead us in to the mess we are in today

[overmind25]

LOL!

[ducksoup2007]

????

[overmind25]

The US Government has been heavily involved in the economy. The idea that "deregulation", a very board term, caused this is so simplistic and false. You would think people were just copping some media phrase like they were in Iraq.

[joshuamccosker]

Thankyou overmind for some intelligent input.