Couldn't it be argued, especially with Watts' approach, that the "Gift" character of life is something given by the "Struggle" character of life and vice versa? On other points in your video I would recommend reading Watts work because he argues that life and conciousness as we know it is only a reflection of ALL matter whether "intelligent" or not. It's our perception of a random pattern of atoms. You look at intelligence as something separate from matter when it is something COMPOSED of it.
As for the last sentence, referring to Nature as indifferent, that is true, perhaps you haven't the mind you to comprehend the idea of Nature-naturing? If so, I recommend a book on Taoism or The Gay Science by Friedrich Nietzsche. I have no business with you any longer after since all that I've said that was your first response, and because I've already proven my point enough
@JonathanAFuentes That's very nice of you to just name drop, make unexplained references and write to me in a nearly coherent english. In that case, done to you I am already, thank kindness in explain point.
@InfectedDaemon originally only capable of immediate experience, wholly incomprehensible, into the linear dimension of words and thoughts. The fact is that, even not when undergoing an ecstatic experience with the feminine mind of the plant through the use of mushrooms, everything that happens in the body merely during a second, which is all energy flowing throughout it, is completely incomprehensible to linear thought-processes and patterns using words.
@InfectedDaemon experience, comparable to the experience of the child upon feeding the mothers breast, wholly instinctual and literally imbeds mother-archetype in the unconscious, which you and I bear. Now, during this ecstatic experience, which is beyond the realm of conceptual thought, beyond linear thinking using words (-all thinking is linear and relative) I were to actually, in fact, think, which is perfectly in therange of will in a human being, would I not be diminishing, what is
@InfectedDaemon As a matter a fact, sure, I'll try to explain a little more clearly. As a human being, endowed with its various systems, all of which function simultaneously within the human body, such as the nervous system, you are receiving tremendous amounts of information at every moment. Out of this energy, of an ecstatic experience of tremendous energy, such as, for example, the indulgence of psilocybin mushroom, which exposed one to the 'Gaian Mind,' a state of consciousness and an
@InfectedDaemon Well that can most certainly can wait, since it is the most insignificant part of my whole argument and discussion. How about everything else?
@InfectedDaemon Could you not feel such a force in a number of way, perhaps all at once? Loving, motherly, caring and holy? Having such an experience is beyond conceptual thought, for the moment this is done, one has fashion the all-at-once ecstatic, impersonal experience with the divine into a liner, 'self-made' idea, as it is with all thinking, 'linear.' Nature is indifferent, if it happens to be superabundant, it is self-so, because of Nature being itself, 'nature-naturing.'
@Infected Daemon which, as a whole, was merely a crude opinion and obnoxiously uninformed. Perhaps you should read a book on Neo-Darwanism, because it seems to me you are seriously out-of-date on the latest ideas in biological science. If you want to speak of the 'Divine', of 'Gaia,' it is not wholly impersonal yet ecstatic? As is established in various mythologies at all times throughout the world, and even you, when you sucked on your mother's breast as a child?
@InfectedDaemon to explain your point. Well, to speak of nature, of which you are a particle of, perhaps it is not, which books on ecology have you been reading? Perhaps Nature is not a struggle at all, perhaps nature is superabundant in its power, that its gifts are bestowed in plentitude, if this is so, one aspect of your argument, on an ecological level, has already lost all it's meaning, and I think I've easily chiseled out the absurdity of all the rest,
@InfectedDaemon If I say, 'Hm, no, life is not like a gift, life is actually much like a battle' is that any more true than saying life is like a gift? Why would you obstinately contradict yourself over some silly notion, (-which is merely fashioned out of relative knowledge) that has, at that moment in time, become an ideal? To argue on your terms, you say that 'life is a struggle of tooth and nail', a metaphor, a struggle in nature and in history, just one of the examples which you've said
@InfectedDaemon the world might be a very different place, perhaps a little more irritable. But why the prick of conscience? Why what was originally an expression of the heart stifled by the mind? One might sound a little ashamed of the thought, perhaps even guilty? .. Do you understand where I am going with this? To look at it from another way, are you actually suggesting, or retorting, that since the metaphor, 'life is like a gift' cannot be proven, that is false?
@InfectedDaemonI think the matter at hand here is a metaphysical one. Let's start on the assumption that our Professor Anton intended the phrase to be a spiritual, or, if you prefer, emotional. Now, if every person who has experienced some kind of rise or intoxication out of life, in whatever way, stopped in his tracks from a prick of conscience and said to himself 'Wait, life isn't a gift at all, what about all that has happened to get here!'
@InfectedDaemon Hi, I've just happened to stumble upon the video of which this was a response to, and hearing both your opinions, I have to say that you might of taken what you've interpreted as a 'concept,' the metaphor that life is a gift (- we'll be more cleanly and say that 'life is like a gift') In this case, I think, the issue at hand isn't an intellectual one, in the sense that it can be 'proven', because that would be very silly.
It is not that life is a gift as opposed to a struggle; the fact of anything at all, including the struggle, is the gift. Lottery? ? Only those who are able to contemplate the actual fact of non-being can sense the gift-character.
@Professoranton You're just reiterating what you have already said. I think you're using "gift" in a poetic sense because you haven't addressed (at least not to my satisfaction or comprehension) the points I have brought up. I just see this insistence on calling life a gift. I'm sorry to say, but it this sounds like a "deepity" (see Dennet) much like when Lacan says that the subconscious is structured like a language, it really makes no sense, just sounds deeper than saying the book is a purple.
Couldn't it be argued, especially with Watts' approach, that the "Gift" character of life is something given by the "Struggle" character of life and vice versa? On other points in your video I would recommend reading Watts work because he argues that life and conciousness as we know it is only a reflection of ALL matter whether "intelligent" or not. It's our perception of a random pattern of atoms. You look at intelligence as something separate from matter when it is something COMPOSED of it.
jbuhnerkempe 4 months ago
As for the last sentence, referring to Nature as indifferent, that is true, perhaps you haven't the mind you to comprehend the idea of Nature-naturing? If so, I recommend a book on Taoism or The Gay Science by Friedrich Nietzsche. I have no business with you any longer after since all that I've said that was your first response, and because I've already proven my point enough
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@JonathanAFuentes That's very nice of you to just name drop, make unexplained references and write to me in a nearly coherent english. In that case, done to you I am already, thank kindness in explain point.
InfectedDaemon 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon Clever!
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon originally only capable of immediate experience, wholly incomprehensible, into the linear dimension of words and thoughts. The fact is that, even not when undergoing an ecstatic experience with the feminine mind of the plant through the use of mushrooms, everything that happens in the body merely during a second, which is all energy flowing throughout it, is completely incomprehensible to linear thought-processes and patterns using words.
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon experience, comparable to the experience of the child upon feeding the mothers breast, wholly instinctual and literally imbeds mother-archetype in the unconscious, which you and I bear. Now, during this ecstatic experience, which is beyond the realm of conceptual thought, beyond linear thinking using words (-all thinking is linear and relative) I were to actually, in fact, think, which is perfectly in therange of will in a human being, would I not be diminishing, what is
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon As a matter a fact, sure, I'll try to explain a little more clearly. As a human being, endowed with its various systems, all of which function simultaneously within the human body, such as the nervous system, you are receiving tremendous amounts of information at every moment. Out of this energy, of an ecstatic experience of tremendous energy, such as, for example, the indulgence of psilocybin mushroom, which exposed one to the 'Gaian Mind,' a state of consciousness and an
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon Well that can most certainly can wait, since it is the most insignificant part of my whole argument and discussion. How about everything else?
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon Could you not feel such a force in a number of way, perhaps all at once? Loving, motherly, caring and holy? Having such an experience is beyond conceptual thought, for the moment this is done, one has fashion the all-at-once ecstatic, impersonal experience with the divine into a liner, 'self-made' idea, as it is with all thinking, 'linear.' Nature is indifferent, if it happens to be superabundant, it is self-so, because of Nature being itself, 'nature-naturing.'
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@JonathanAFuentes I doubt I understood a single sentence in this whole paragraph. Can you explain a little?
InfectedDaemon 5 months ago
@Infected Daemon which, as a whole, was merely a crude opinion and obnoxiously uninformed. Perhaps you should read a book on Neo-Darwanism, because it seems to me you are seriously out-of-date on the latest ideas in biological science. If you want to speak of the 'Divine', of 'Gaia,' it is not wholly impersonal yet ecstatic? As is established in various mythologies at all times throughout the world, and even you, when you sucked on your mother's breast as a child?
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon to explain your point. Well, to speak of nature, of which you are a particle of, perhaps it is not, which books on ecology have you been reading? Perhaps Nature is not a struggle at all, perhaps nature is superabundant in its power, that its gifts are bestowed in plentitude, if this is so, one aspect of your argument, on an ecological level, has already lost all it's meaning, and I think I've easily chiseled out the absurdity of all the rest,
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon If I say, 'Hm, no, life is not like a gift, life is actually much like a battle' is that any more true than saying life is like a gift? Why would you obstinately contradict yourself over some silly notion, (-which is merely fashioned out of relative knowledge) that has, at that moment in time, become an ideal? To argue on your terms, you say that 'life is a struggle of tooth and nail', a metaphor, a struggle in nature and in history, just one of the examples which you've said
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon the world might be a very different place, perhaps a little more irritable. But why the prick of conscience? Why what was originally an expression of the heart stifled by the mind? One might sound a little ashamed of the thought, perhaps even guilty? .. Do you understand where I am going with this? To look at it from another way, are you actually suggesting, or retorting, that since the metaphor, 'life is like a gift' cannot be proven, that is false?
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemonI think the matter at hand here is a metaphysical one. Let's start on the assumption that our Professor Anton intended the phrase to be a spiritual, or, if you prefer, emotional. Now, if every person who has experienced some kind of rise or intoxication out of life, in whatever way, stopped in his tracks from a prick of conscience and said to himself 'Wait, life isn't a gift at all, what about all that has happened to get here!'
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
@InfectedDaemon Hi, I've just happened to stumble upon the video of which this was a response to, and hearing both your opinions, I have to say that you might of taken what you've interpreted as a 'concept,' the metaphor that life is a gift (- we'll be more cleanly and say that 'life is like a gift') In this case, I think, the issue at hand isn't an intellectual one, in the sense that it can be 'proven', because that would be very silly.
JonathanAFuentes 5 months ago
You've won!
nastyfreedom 1 year ago
Thanks. I am not an atheist. I am an anti-"ist."
It is not that life is a gift as opposed to a struggle; the fact of anything at all, including the struggle, is the gift. Lottery? ? Only those who are able to contemplate the actual fact of non-being can sense the gift-character.
watch?v=YmP1fpRmmNk
Professoranton 1 year ago
@Professoranton You're just reiterating what you have already said. I think you're using "gift" in a poetic sense because you haven't addressed (at least not to my satisfaction or comprehension) the points I have brought up. I just see this insistence on calling life a gift. I'm sorry to say, but it this sounds like a "deepity" (see Dennet) much like when Lacan says that the subconscious is structured like a language, it really makes no sense, just sounds deeper than saying the book is a purple.
InfectedDaemon 1 year ago
I like the background music
Klingschor 1 year ago
@Klingschor I would have hoped people would like the content... but beggars can't be choosers. :-3
InfectedDaemon 1 year ago