The Pre-tribulation Rapture of the Church is False! - pt 18

[StealthyLikeDaNinja]

admittedly I have only watched a few min. of your video. I think you mention the rapture at the seventh trump in Rev. but the great trib continues even after the last trump. so arent you making more of a case for a mid trib rapture.

[gadawk2010]

@StealthyLikeDaNinja The great tribulation ends when God's wrath begins; Revelation 12:15-18 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST; AND HE SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints..."

[StealthyLikeDaNinja]

@gadawk2010 Ok, so if that's the case then doesn't the great tribulation end even before that? Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? It seems to me that the book of Revelation can pretty much be taken chronologically and works just fine. but with this you have to start taking it apart and moving things around to fit. What am I missing here. thanks for the response to my last by the way. have a good day. God Bless.

[gadawk2010]

@StealthyLikeDaNinja I don't claim to everything about the Bible or future events predicted by the Bible, but if it says it in the Bible, I believe what the Bible says. Yes, it does take prayer and much time studying to understand some of the prophecies in the Bible. My whole point is that those who are going around preaching and teaching that the church is going to taken to heaven before the great tribulation starts are fooling people because the Bible does not teach that. Do we agree?

[StealthyLikeDaNinja]

@gadawk2010 Not sure if I agree or not about the Pre trib rapture. However I agree with everything else and I like that you are taking the time to study and pass along what you have found out. I am just now in the study process trying to figure out what I believe. (pre, mid, or post) I guess no matter, the important thing to know is that Christ is coming back and His people will be with Him. One way or another I know someday you and I will get to meet in heaven. I look forward to that day.

[gadawk2010]

@StealthyLikeDaNinja Yes, I look forward to His soon return for His bride, the church, also. As i was thinking about timing of the rapture, i have been studying the book of Daniel and i find it surprising that he had so much to say about end time events, the tribulation, the antichrist, the coming of the Lord, but nothing about a pre-tribulation rapture of believers. You may want to study the book of Daniel and compare it with Revelation when you have time. God bless you!

[Noffy1111]

In Rev 3:10 we are told that we will kept from the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world. If we are on the world we would be tempted (tested) But we are not because we are kept from it.

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 The amplified bible reads: "...I also will keep you [safe] from the hour of trial (testing) which is coming on the whole world to try those who dwell upon the earth." Rev. 3:10 Notice, it does not say the church will be raptured or taken to heaven at that time. It only says we will be kept "safe" or protected at that time. What is the "hour of trial (testing)" that is coming for the world?

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Notice how this testing comes to the whole world. And those that are kept from it. The only way that a believer can be kept from it if it is world wide is to not be here. Also, it does not say kept THROUGH it. It says KEPT FROM. The things that are going to happen to this world and earth are massive, nuclear, meteor strikes, famines, plagues, massive earth quakes so large the the world rotation and surface will be changed.

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Now which is it. The anti christ will be given power to make war against the saints OR God is going to protect them? The only people given the promise of protection are the 144,000 Hebrew virgin males and those that flea Judea into the wilderness at the abomination of desolation. 1 Thes 1:10 says we are to wait for Christ from heaven and He will deliver us from the wrath to come. Did you get that? Christ is coming for us BEFORE the WRATH is to come. Luke 21:36 says we will

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Luke 21:36 Watch and pray to be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things and to stand before the Son of man (Bema seat)

The wrath of God starts in Rev 6:1 and by Rev 6:15 the kings of the earth are hiding from the wrath of Christ and He who sits on the throne. The day of the Lord and the Day of the Lords wrath are one complete day. It is not 1/3 of the lords day or 2/3 of the lords day of wrath.

If you read Rev 20:4-6 it is written in like manner that many read completely wrong

[Noffy1111]

So let me ask you this. If the resurrection is not until the LAST DAY then how is it Christ and the first fruits were resurrected?

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 When Jesus spoke of the resurrection He was talking about the final resurrection when all believers in Christ (Old Testament and New) will be raised from the graves. Yes, Jesus was resurrected as well as many of the Old Testament saints after His crucifixtion.

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Have you studied the Hebraic crop cycles as they are a one to one correlation of the resurrection (rapture) Who are the people looking up for their REDEMPTION in Luke 21:28? Aren't they the REDEEMED from every kindred, tongue, people, nation of Rev 5:9? Rev 6:1 is the start of the tribulation and here we have the REDEEMED in heaven Prior to 6:1. Jesus Christ and the first fruits are a part of the same resurrection (harvest Cycle or rapture) that we are about to go through.

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 I study the Bible. Where do you read in the Bible that it says the church is in heaven when you get to Revelation 6:1? The Bible does not say that.

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Luke 21:28 are those seeing things that are beginning are looking up for their REDEMPTION and says it is drawing neigh. This is the church right now looking up. We see these things right now. Rev 5:9 are those that have been REDEEMED from the every kindred, tongue, people and nation. These REDEEMED are those in Luke 21:28 that were looking for their REDEMPTION. VS 10 they are also called KINGS and PRIESTS. What group is promised to be Kings and Priests? 6:1 is the beginning of trib

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 Brother, in Revelation 5:9 we are told who those people were who sang the song of the redeemed. in verse 8 is says they are the "twenty-four elders". verse 9 in the Amplified Bible reads: "And [now] they sing a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll and to break the seals that are on it, for You were slain (sacrificed), and with Your blood You purchased men unto God from every tribe and language and people and nation." It does not say that the church is in heaven.

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Then this means you are using a translation of the Alexandria text. KJV, NKJV, REDEEMED, NLT ESV RANSOMED, NIV PURCHASED. REDEEMED, RANSOMED, PURCHASED all mean the sale thing. The We and US was the majority manuscript and the Alexandria version was the minority version and no one used it because they considered it to be tainted and. Now days it is the majority manuscript because people have adopted the.

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Do a search on Youtube titled 'Is your bible amplified?' You should end up with profile 'thebereancall' Did you know that the amplified is a paraphrase bible? True it is not as bad as the message paraphrase but it is still quoted by Rick Warren just like he quotes the Message.

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 What version of the Bible are you reading that tells you Rev. 5:9 is the church in heaven? I don't believe you can find a Bible that says that (unless you write it yourself).

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 I read the KJV and NKJV and I also have the NASB, NLT, NIV, ESV,Septuagint, Tyndale, Wycliffe and so on. I don't know how to tell you this but there can be only one group of people from every kindred, tongue, people and nation that are called the REDEEMED in heaven, before, the breaking of the 1st seal releasing the anti christ and the time of Jacobs trouble or Daniels 70th week and that is the CHURCH. Name one group that is labeled REDEEMED that is not the church?

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 Obviously, the 24 elders are the ones who are singing in Rev. 5:9. Who do you think the 24 elders are? They are part of the church, but they are not the complete church. John said he saw them as soon as he was taken to heaven in the spirit in Rev. 4:4. The rest of the redeemed are not in heaven until Rev. 7:9 and if you read Rev. 6:17 it tells you that at the same time when the great day of God's wrath has come.

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 Rev 7:9 is the tribulation saints murdered during the tribulation. They must wait until their number is complete just like the number of the church was complete before the rapture. REDEEMED out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation. Tell me how do you do the math for 24 elders from over 247 countries? Jesus was the first of the resurrection, then the rapture then the elect. one harvest three separate events. Rev 6:17 is speaking to the wrath being poured out in 6:1

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 Either the Bible is wrong or you are wrong. Jesus said the resurrection is at the last day. He did not say there would be more than one resurrection at the end of days. Neither did the apostle Paul, "...But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept...But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming. Then cometh the end when He shall have delivered up the kingdom..." I Corin. 15:20-24

[gadawk2010]

@gadawk2010 Nowhere in the Bible does it say there will be more than one resurrection of the righteous during the last 7 years tribulation.

[Noffy1111]

@gadawk2010 One resurrection three parts. When Christ was resurrected He was the First fruits. Don;t you know that He was a part of the same resurrection that we are going to take part in? You said it yourself, each in his own order. You cite 1 Cor 20-24 but you leave out 1 Cor 15:50-55 (rapture). Luke 21:34-36 shows people being told to be accounted worthy to ESCAPE from whats coming upon the whole world. 1 Thes 1:10 Delivered, Rev 3:10

[gadawk2010]

@Noffy1111 What version of the Bible are you reading that tells you Rev. 5:9 is saying the church is in heaven? I don't believe you can find a Bible that says that (unless you write it yourself).

[Derikgolf78]

one problem. about 144,000 Jewish with seal and preach to the wide wide. but Our Christian real born again preach since thought GT. what happen 144, 000 preach to born again did preach will be different! but I believe Church ago gone. then 144,000 seal got job in Great Trib.

[Derikgolf78]

one problem. about 144,000 Jewish with seal and preach to the wide wide. but Our Christian real born again preach since thought GT. what happen 144, 000 preach to born again did preach will be different! but I believe Church ago gone. then 144,000 seal got job in Great Trib.