Final Cut: The Making and Unmaking of Heaven's Gate (Part 6 of 8)

[slangshotstudios]

You guys think 5 hours is bad? Rainer Werner Fassbinder made a 15+ hour film. He separated it into parts though, to be fair.

[illsleepwhenimdead17]

Does anyone know the name of the song that plays at the 9:00 minutes mark? I don't think it's on the soundtrack.

[Jdub14000]

All i can say is WOW....5 Hours.

[EverettDudgeon138]

I really want that 5 hour version on Criterion DVD! NOW!

[thedrmat]

What is the point of that Shaw bitch trying to defend a lost cause all these years later??!! Stupid cunt!! Maybe Cimino tapped that ass furiously while high on coke, and that's what she remembers so dearly of him!!

[Miles3363]

I didn'tknow Jon Lovitz was the crazed director of Heavans Gate

[CTM1978]

Please don't give me that "artist" bullshit. That word is synonymous with the word ASSHOLE. I hate that line of thinking that says "well, I'm an artist so I can't hold down a job or sustain a reasonable standard of living while doing my art in my spare time." Also, I don't think of movies as an artform. Art, to me, is the singular creation of one person, an expression of their soul. Movies involve soo many people that I think of them as more of a creative endeavor. 

[jksonny]

For someone who craved realism, some of these scenes are ridiculous. I find it difficult to believe that people in those times were dancing and/or skating like professionals in perfect coordination.

That Shaw woman still seems like she's completely enamored with Cimino, as if the whole debacle was somehow cute.

[auggie87]

RIP Steven Bach. Dude is a real genius I feel

[darwincity]

I'd like to see the 5 hour version.

[thevoid99]

i've seen "heaven's gate" a few times. It has its moments but it's a bloated mess. in fact, i think cimino wanted to make something that the beauty of "days of heaven". the only difference was that terrence malick just let the camera roll and make things up as it went along. then find what he needed in the editing room. it may have took a couple of years but he came out with a masterpiece. now, malick has another one and cimino, what he's done since "the sunchaser"?

[koln1996]

The film's scenes are really stunning to look at, but it definitely feels disjointed and rambling!!!

[shenloken2]

5 Hours....5 fucking hours!!? With a long-as fight sequence?

(Stares)...What was Cimino thinking!!?

[TulseLuper]

Cimino failed to understand that film is a COLLABORATIVE medium. Even the perfectionist Kubrick welcomed the ideas of his actors and technicians. Cimino didn't seem to give a fuck about anyone but Cimino. And you know what? He was lousy. Thunderbolt and Lightfoot is good, but Deer Hunter is every bit as pretentious and indulgent as Heaven's Gate because nobody had the guts to tell him that his farts didn't stink.

[trulysarcastic]

Had Cimino at least try to work with UA and been a little sympathetic/apologetic about going over budget would have helped. The story the editor tells of yelling and hanging up on people and laughing about it only sealed his fate. You can't be a egomaniac and and be a failure.He feels that it's a masterpiece but 30 years later he still won't talk about it.

[knownpleasures]

they should have released it in two parts like...french connection maybe

[blackamerican40]

5 HOURS AND 25 MINUTES LONG?!!  Are you kidding me?!

[BannedCinema]

@blackamerican40 That's nothing. Erich von Stronheim's original cut of "Greed" was 9 hours.

[jngr1]

@BannedCinema And how was von Stroheim's career after that? His parallels Cimino's- only I don't see Cimino acting in a version of Sunset Boulevard, screening a scene from one of his movies. (Back to the Queen Kelly option of earlier.)

[SinAutor]

The Version I have at home is 208 minutes. The film is majestic. It's a little slow and dull in parts, but the visuals and spectacle are really amazing

[Booharv1]

220 hours of film? My God.

[TeehpodT]

Some people do not recognize a masterpiece if you hit them over the head with it. So, there is no use in hitting them over the head with it for three and a half hours. It is like throwing pearls before swine. I don't care, the movie is nothing short of brilliant. It is amazing that they let Cimino get away with doing it his way, more or less.

[darkkramer666]

@TeehpodT its a pretentious and boring piece of shit. That is all.

[GTBurns48215]

Today this film as it stood would have worked as an HBO miniseries.

[Booharv1]

@GTBurns48215 You never saw the 5 and a half hour version, you can't say that.

[Supenmanu]

Why do you need a prologue and an epilogue in a movie that is already 4 hours long?

[Youbian]

Try Days Of Heaven.

[CardiohallPictures]

I thought the slow clap meant something was extra good.

[RyanStileswliia]

@CardiohallPictures

Are you talking about the slow clap like in Not Another Teen Movie? Wrong slow clap.

[AzaleaZoeliz]

It should've been edited, released and marketed differently. Today Tarantino chops a movie into two to release it separately, expanded versions became common. If the core of this film could've been more audience friendly but still remain as an epic beyond proportions at five hours it could've been something else. I always wanted to see it because of the lenght. Let's say you're watching three hours and then there's a battle that goes on for over an hour, that would've broken the mold.

[blue32ism]

excellent documentary. i read Bach's book about ten years ago. It goes into a lot more detail about what happened.

the unfortunate truth is, UA was at fault, not Cimino. If a director is out of control it's the producer's job to kick his ass into shape. UA let Cimino slide time and again and before they knew it they had created a monster.

[eluvre]

This is an amazing and very revealing documentary. There was so much wrong with this movie beginning with UA, Cimino and casting Kristofferson in the lead when there's a much better actor in credit named Jeff Bridges. Another thing I don't get is UA's pussyfooting with Cimino. They would have saved a whole lot of money had they just fired him and hired another director. Sadly, it is UA's enabling of Cimino that pretty much created irreparable damage to their company.

[fredblassie123]

the English editor chick would have drank the kool-aid if Cimino told her to....hilarious.

[NJYankee920]

5 1/2 hours???

[industrialsun]

Cimino even managed to piss off a bunch of his fellow filmmakers by spending all the money that would have been spent on other films! He was just determined to burn every bridge in Hollywood. As for that English lady editor talking about how long and hard they worked putting the film together in the editing room, sitting in a chair assembling film footage in an airconditioned state of art facility in Los Angeles, California for a couple of months is not exactly back breaking manual labor.

[AzaleaZoeliz]

@industrialsun That would be nothing new though because Coppola's Zoetrope studios de-railed many produced projects because Coppola was making his own flops with One from the Heart and Cotton Club and there are other examples, though I agree Cimino's artistic ego had become too big for his own good.

[industrialsun]

@AzaleaZoeliz True, though Coppola's excesses seem much less egregious because he had just made FOUR masterful films in the 1970s (the greatest film decade in history) and at the start of 1980s was exhausted creatively and struggling with bipolar disorder after experiencing a breakdown during the tumultuous filming of Apocalypse Now.

[jonathanmelia]

That must have been one wide angle lens they used for t he Harvard scene. Mansfield college Oxford is tiny!

[80sfanfreak]

i have to admit the film was indeed visually stunning, the way it looked.

[CardiohallPictures]

Slow Claps are bad? I thought those were the most epic & flattering of all.

[zooeyhall]

Wow! A five hour-twenty minute film?  I hope they scheduled a couple of intermissions!

[SNCLHN]

very interesting i never knew about any of this

[ebab212]

The movie is astounding. He needed someone to push him along. I would love to see his 7.5 hour cut. The released "long version" is the finest American movie of the 1980s.

[blackamerican40]

Best line in the whole documentary is....."We sat down and we watched the movie and the movie we saw was 5 hours and 25 minutes long. The battle sequence alone was longer than most feature films." That right there should have told them what kind of man they were dealing with. Oy-vay!!

[jonathanmelia]

@blackamerican40 Yeah, and in the book, it's better. It's followed by a quote from Bunyan's PILGRIM'S PROGRESS: "Then I saw there was a way to Hell. Even from the GATES OF HEAVEN...."

[ryanstiles]

Cimino should have had more control over himself. I'm upset all these people are defending his attitude!

I'm glad Brad Dourif finally stuck it to him, but god knows, Cimino probably wasn't listening.

[scottmanduzy]

He had a vision, was dedicated to his ambition, but an ego unchecked spells disaster.

[CaseyStelken]

I didn't know John Lovitz was such an obsessive director.

[mike1964180]

the truly criminal thing, revealed in the medveds greatest flops in history, was that four or so months into filming, cimino held a party to celebrate exposing the most film ever for a movie. He revealed this was always his secret plan. I repeat. Criminal.

[mike1964180]

The huge difference between him and Cameron is that James makes brilliant, audience friendly films that people want to see . . .cimino never really got that.

[TheGatorfan93]

Considering HOW much money was put into it,how long it is,this might be the worst film ever made.Casting kristopherson and huppert was a major gaffe.You can't understand her half of the time,and kristopherson has zero charisma.Then poor sound quality,poor script,confusing visuals.There's just nothing compelling.Seriously folks,other than some beautiful set pieces,this movie has nothing to offer.And now because of this jerk,freedom of directors has been limited,and the blockbuster now rules.

[cobolsaurus]

At one point during filming, Michael Cimino decided that the spacing of the buildings on one of the sets didn't look right, despite it having been built to his exact specifications. He ordered both sides of the street razed and rebuilt, at a cost of $1.2 million over the objections of his crew, who reasoned that it would be easier and cheaper to knock down one side of the street and rebuild it twice as far away.

[ufuckfacesonofabitch]

@cobolsaurus Nice copy and paste job from imdb!

[cobolsaurus]

@ufuckfacesonofabitch so?

[ufuckfacesonofabitch]

@cobolsaurus I'm just saying is all.

[Anynom]

Remember a great line in one book on how Camino was pretty much the result of the loss of studio control in the 60's and '70's. In the old studio system of the 30's and '40's, they woudl NEVER have let him get away with nearly as much.

[AJoeProduction]

"I could lose maybe 15 minutes." Jesus, when did this guy think that anyone would want to sit through a 5 1/2 hour movie?

[kubrickzghost]

Try watching 1900. If you walk out of that film not wanting more, then you just don't get it. Hands down, Heavens Gate has some of the most beautiful vista shots in cinema. If you let an artist be a perfectionist, they will. The secret to movies is that you don't need perfection to create a perfect moment. At the same time, you can't restrain an artist without force. You have to choose between art and studio. It's give and take. You all lost Cimino, but gained Puff Daddy. How's that workin out?

[clouds88]

Nice one Stanley

You have insight and grace in abundance

Shine on

Noel

[REXanadu]

@kubrickzghost We didn't lose a damn thing; Michael wanted addicted to this movie like a junkie on meth. UA tried to "take him to rehab", so to speak, but took too much time beating around the bush. Should have taken him there sooner, that's what I say. Or better yet, they should have "kicked him out of the house"

P. Diddy may have killed Kashmir, but he also gave us B.I.G., so he gets a break. It's not like

[Ramble1212]

his one ugly little grease ball

[shockraid1]

A feature length FIGHT SEQUENCE?!

[thedrmat]

@shockraid1

That was too much!! I remember the initial battle sequence from Saving Private Ryan was only about 20-25 minutes long, and it was so intense that it felt as it was longer than that. So imagine a 2-hour-plus battle sequence!! The guy was a megalomaniac!! Good riddance from the Hollywood medium, artist or no artist!!

[MassimoPiai]

@shockraid1 FTW

[voidingindigo]

I strongly suspect that Cimino was trying to imitate "Days of Heaven" when he made "Heaven's Gate".

[GordonMorrice]

David Field looks like he is about to cry and blub like Rocky when Mickey died. Get over it, Mr Field. Life moves on. Hollywood always moves on. Movies have continued to be made after Heaven's Gate, many of them pretentious, over-budgeted pieces of crap. When I look out Heaven's Gate today, I go, "Hmm?" at some scenes that don't make much sense, but also "WOW!" at the painterly grandeur of it.

[thegreeninferno]

Thats Hollywood for you. Spending horrendous amounts of money for something that people are only going to watch for maybe 2-3 hours. I love cinema but, I believe that people should spend only as much money that is necessary and try to keep costs as low as possible. Spending $400 million on a movie is bullshit.

[Fawksian21]

$400 million? I don't think anyone's spent that much yet. 'Pirates of the Carribean: At World's End" was over $200 million and I think that's the record, as of right now.

[thegreeninferno]

Ah, you're correct! Pirates cost around $300,000,000. I'm sure a film costing $400,000,000 will come along soon.

[elbethere]

Avatar cost $500,000,000.

[thegreeninferno]

Ha ha, it tears me up inside!

[mike1964180]

It returned nearly six times that to its investors mate.

[equifilibricum]

Hey, that's Billy Bibbit

[Jimbothy]

@equifilibricum

na-na-na-no! NO! NO! NA-NO!!!!

[wesrt7]

With a 5hr and 25min running time was the idea ever suggested to release the movie in two parts instead of just one. I would love to have seen those battle sequences uncut.

[steveN111333]

That english woman is fucking crazy ! 1:46 "its quite funny actually" ! whats fucking funny about bankrupting a studio just to give a power mad moron more time to piss away more money ! They also put bars on the cutting room windows and changed the locks !!! he knew he was in deep shit, thats the only reason he did that ! This film fascinates me in a weird way that so many people could spend sooo much money and make sooooo much effort on something that was sooooo bad !

[brennscheidt]

Sooooo bad? After watching this documentary I think he really could have made the ultimate western he wanted to do if the had only let him done. and I have the highest respect for Cimino as even the fragment that emerged is a milestone in cinema history.

[bsjt]

They DID let him do it! They let him go over the line on them so many times. The book of this film goes much more in depth - Cimino got his cake and then some. And then delivered a 5hr25min cut!

[acapedit]

CTM, you've never worked on the movies have you?

[TonyLyndellWilliams]

Cinema 101 by Cimino -- How not to make a motion picture.

[welshuser]

"15 minutes would have to be cut"

Now thats an understatement LOL

[hanniballecter3]

5 hours long?!

It might as well have been a Bertolucci picture.

[CTM1978]

Cimino was a fucking moron, drunk with power. That english woman (the assistant editor) is another fucking idiot. She thinks that the cast would have walked if Cimino had been fired? Gone with the Wing had three directors and Selzinck was the driving force of that movie. Cimino was a punk who wanted to see how high he could make people jump and no one had the balls to stand up to him.

[bsjt]

Unfortunately at the time Hollywood was still in the golden age of the auteur, so I think many WOULD have walked over "art." Cimino was both the apex and nadir of the '70s auteur cinema, in that he got away with everything but abused it and destroyed it forever.

[Darkez982]

@CTM1978

Gone with the Wing?

[CTM1978]

@Darkez982 I was hungry for chicken wings at the time.

[xterminator069]

@CTM1978 cimino is an artist. just look at most artist and you now understand why they live in the ghetto.

[cherrera7]

Wow. 5 hours and 25 minutes -- of which maybe 15 minutes would be cut? I wonder if Cimino really intended to make the 5 hour version his final cut, or if he was just buying himself some time. After all, he ended up cutting it so close to the release date, UA couldn't preview it or give him notes. Either way, I would've loved to have seen that feature length version of the climax just to see if it was possible to keep a sequence like that interesting for so long.