buddhism -- dzogchen

[vajraloka1]

Just bought radical dzogchen, great text ,we are fortunate to have these texts translated into english!! very fortunate..thank you for all your hard work !!

loved the indian mahasiddha book as well............

[vajraloka1]

Just bought radical dzogchen, great text ,we are fotunate to have these texts translated into english!! very fortunate..thank you for all your hard work !!

loved the indian mahasiddha book as well............

[Starwheel6]

According to Dzogchen teachings existence is an extreme dualistic state as is the extreme of non-existence. Nondual in this case means simultaneously the

unlimited combo existence/nonexistence beyond concepts.

[DoctorTachyon]

*Nods head in agreement. Raises fist in solidarity.

[aumbro]

i like how you explained that

[kasuskasus]

Thanks.

[SieWerdenHassen]

maintaining oneself as an experience of existance, through benevolence, proceeding after transcendance

[SieWerdenHassen]

maintaining.. call it that

[SieWerdenHassen]

trancendance through meditation and returning for the benevolence of life itself as one's original purpose in ever having existed cuz we/i/all is one thing and to take care of parts of the self is to take care of the natural order one/the/i/tao has created, powers of manifestation and creation beyond comprehension of the typical creation, control of the astral plane at will but lack of conseus behavior of, no?

[gurugeorge]

Thought you might enjoy another translation (Keith Dowman's):

The nature of multiplicity is nondual

and things in themselves are pure and simple;

being here and now is thought-free

and it shines out in all forms, always all good;

it is already perfect, so the striving sickness is avoided

and spontaneity is constantly present.

[happyseaurchin]

thanks

most appreciated...

seems simpler

and for some reason

less precise...

but that's probably my own attachment to the translation i am familiar with...

thanks

i shall return to this :)

[gurugeorge]

I think there's a bit of a problem translating Tibetan Buddhist stuff in that Westerners, being aware of the complex philosophical "resonances" of the jargon terms, often tend to paraphrase rather than translate directly. Originally the words used in Tibetan are simple words, ordinary, homely words - the philosophical halo is implicit, not explicit. Dowman tries to mimic that using simple English.

[happyseaurchin]

ah

nice

but sadly

the implications would be lost on me

since it is the singular text that i have returned to over the last 15 years

that and namki norbu's explanation

deep gratitude

[jingamohawk1]

The interpretation is fine. Secret Theatre is a bit uptight. You have my permission to disregard him. I outrank him :-)

[queenswannie]

To make the Dharma available is very auspicious. I see nothing wrong with post the 6 Vajra Verses here, and you certainly make it plain that this is YOUR commentary. Good for you!

[SecretTheatre]

No need to apologise, though. If you want to keep the video up that's fine, my advice would just to be careful about relying on your own interpretations without the guidance of a master. I say this from my own experience of doing just that! Peace and best wishes.

[happyseaurchin]

you are most kind

i got the verses from the little book by namkhai norbu and i hope one day to have the time and money to visit him

thank you for your engagement and advice

peace

[argenteum]

You don't need to physically go and meet him - he gives transmission and teachings many times a year over the internet (for free, even). Either way, such Dzoghcen specific instructions/poems don't make sense (or reveal the Dzogchen view) without proper explanation.

[SecretTheatre]

Before even considering Dzogchen I would recommend a thorough grounding in Madhyamika, such as is offered in books like 'Meditation on Emptiness' by Jeffrey Hopkins. To understand (or rather practice) Dzogchen properly you need initiation by a master, such as Namkhai Norbu.

[happyseaurchin]

you are right, of course....

my path is rather shallow... i have found this to be useful in my life so far, and despite my inaccurate understanding, or rather the mismatch between my understanding and knowing of what the teachings refer to, i am slowly making my way...

i do apologise... i don't learn well from books, hence this little thing has given me thought-provoking and experiential insights over fifteen years, and perhaps for years to come yet... please be patient...

[SecretTheatre]

Namkhai Norbu has written a profound commentary to the Six Vajra Verses (available on Amazon). He is a great Dzogchen master, and anything from him is 100% guaranteed to be authentic. It's not so much a case of being inaccurate, just that these things are actually beyond words, and intellectual discussion in my experience tends to create more heat than light :)

[SecretTheatre]

I would like to respectfully ask that this video be removed.

[happyseaurchin]

it may be that these verses are gems in a certain buddhist tradition, and thus to present them in youtube could be considered disrespectful

i apologise

please consider

i believe buddhism is a science and thus requires rigourous investigation and testability, which flies in the face of mysticism and secrecy

instead of bickering, can we sort out the world situation, and hence i invite you to consider 2020worldpeace?

[SecretTheatre]

No, it's not a question of being disrespectful, but rather that these teachings are 'self-secret'. They are so easily misunderstood and misinterpreted - and, without meaning to be disrespectful, or wishing to bicker, your video contains a few such misunderstandings.

[SecretTheatre]

If you practice Dzogchen you should not be advertising the fact. You shouldn't draw attention to yourself in any way. YouTube is the last place for stuff like this.

[happyseaurchin]

wouldn't say i practiced it... just found this little book with the vagra verses useful in my life

drawing attention to myself is not the objective, agreed

since i am not a buddhist, i am not constrained by their rules... hence youtube is a means by which communication may occur... however shallow it might be in comparison to the depths of what we are alluding to

[boodistGeek]

Dzogchen is a sublime teaching associated primarily with the Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.

The six vajra verses is an example of the hauntingly beautiful poems called dohas, extemporaneous songs composed by yogis who realized the awakened mind described. Jetsun Milarepa, Kunkhyen Longchenpa and Shabkar are some well-known doha masters.

The only way to genuinely receive these teachings is from a master knows you intimately and gives you the right teachings at the right time.

[boodistGeek]

Non-dual simply means 'not two.' It does NOT suggest 'everything is one.' Again, this is not a teaching of the Buddha.

All phenomena have the same essence, but this doesn't imply that everything is a single thing. All stars are made of hydrogen. Stars die and their remnants seed the birth of other stars - stars arise and cease interdependently, but they aren't all part of a single star. All humans share 'human-ness' and we each influence everyone else, but we aren't a single person.

[boodistGeek]

Permit me a subtle, but important distinction. 'Everything is just one thing' is the view of monism. This is not a teaching of the Buddha.

Buddha taught that all phenomena - sights, sounds, colors, thoughts, beings, concepts - arise in relation to everything else. Interdependent origination (co-emergence) teaches that nothing is autonomous, but arises from and in turn influences, a shared context. In this view, concepts of 'one' and 'two' have no role to play.

[capapples]

good vid

[Babliclat]

awsome

[Thoolla]

Simply, there has been infinite past, at some point everything has been done. Therefore everything has always been done and accomplished always. The end point is everything is already in its completed state and so there is no need to do anymore. This realisation gives rise to a peaceful state of mind without the worry from the attachment to doing.

[DorjeDriftwood]

thats what all the preliminary teachings lead up to. Moral conduct and the like are designed to slowly gear down to the type of calm that is needed. also the lama's can directly transmit this feeling to their students. Having been in there presence many times I can tell you this is not just a fairytale. dzogchen is meant to be the last jump into enlightenment it's not a suitable path for most lay people.

[DorjeDriftwood]

everything has already been accomplished and so having overcome the sickness of effort one finds oneself in the self-perfected state: Since you are non-dual inseparable from the universe and the universe has no attributes it is and you are in fact perfect. You need only stabilize the view and there is no longer anything to accomplish.

[happyseaurchin]

cool... thanks :)

the trick is, me-thinks, how can we stabilise this view...?

and indeed

to penetrate this understanding in an experiential way, might be a rather tricky psycho-dynamic... i suspect it alters the consciousness rather radically...

that is, i feel i only have an understanding of it, and a little insight, but no real puncture through with my own mind, if you get what i am saying...?

[DorjeDriftwood]

there is no concept that can define the condition of what is but vision nevertheless manifests all is good: Ultimately through the expanse of time there is no true state of phenomena. in fact nothing exists as one thing. Everything is an illusion slowly passing into another illusion. There are no characteristics in the infinity of time. However, the illusions still persist regardless of our knowledge of their nature. Since everything is uniform/formless in infinity, all is good.

[DorjeDriftwood]

the nature of phenomena is non-dual

but each one, its own state, is beyond the limits of the mind: you have a very good idea about this. Beyond the limits of the mind means that nothing can be described or thought about. We can only create ideas and so the thinking mind does not capture any phenomena in its true nature. We can only observe concepts from our relative point of view. Ergo, if an ant looked at your pen you would not agree with the ant about how it looked.

[DorjeDriftwood]

I am a Tibetan Buddhist practioner and have been for over ten years. This doesn't mean that I have this right but I think I have a good idea. First of all you had the time thing right. The verses are about the expanse of Time/Space in relation to our concept of who we are, what we are and what were experiencing.

[illumeinessence]

Do you like meditation, if so take a look at our work it,s beautiful.

[adeoskar]

what's with all these branches? There are no branches? There's a tree.... Where do the branches end? Where does the tree begin? Where does the soil begin? Dao, Tao, Zen, Dharma, Moment, Buddhism, are all words that are only lines on sand, that wash away the moment the wave laps the beach. It's all the same. Find the unity... and jump in the moment and merge... you are not you because these are only words. only words... meaningless drivel... empty shells of non-meaning.

[adeoskar]

btw in my last comment i was speaking to those who were talking of branches, not to this video. beautiful analysis, seaurchin.

[happyseaurchin]

oh... hehehhe... well... i think i talked about... branches... or was it a pen? hehehe gads, do i have to review my own vid again? no! no! nothing but that! heheh.... stay cool :)

[adeoskar]

branches, pens, senses, matter, consciousness... what a bore :) after a while it's like a record skipping... then you learn that you just have to be a DJ and start scratching it yourself!

[happyseaurchin]

hehehhah sure thing hehehhe

[happyseaurchin]

easy to dismiss... of course these are all words... this isn't a political debate... its not so much what is said (or written), but what is heard (or read) that matters...

[adeoskar]

amazing sentence. 'not so much what is said... but what is heard' amazing. beautiful.... thank you.

[FullyAware]

buddhism is dead sexy!

[happyseaurchin]

now that's funny... i like the idea of 2020worldpeace being sexy, because i think it is... but buddhism...? hehehe thanks for that, fullyaware :)

[w0rldpeace]

dzogchen got some shit. I gotta research read his stuff ... I've tricked through some of it I must've.

The dao is the supreme ultimate from my pov though, I'd like to hear you expound upon the dao sometime.

worldpeace brother,

ben

[happyseaurchin]

maybe one day... but my experience of daoism is a bit thin... i suspect what it describes is much the same, the difference being once of emphasis... i suspect your feelings about it might be more accurate...

[w0rldpeace]

the difference about it is that it predates zen.

definitely look into it.

I'd be interested to know the functions of Shinto (tangent)

[bonquastag]

A Taoist eats the appel, a zen practisioner contemplates it ! ;) dzokchen eats it while contemplating.

Emptyness is form, form is emptyness, form evolves therefore emptyness evolves, therefore consciousness evolves therefore the know is always evolving and theirs your wave to ride... how about it ;)

[happyseaurchin]

that's a lot of logic :) though i think you are on the wave...

[happyseaurchin]

not sure i understand... pen branch i get... teaching i get... liking i get... theory of everything i don't get -- you mean buddhism?

[PeaceProfit]

the nature of truth is singular, one is all, which exist all*ways, allowing any one to meet a state of contemplation within the nonexistence of time at any given point of truth.

Google: Bruce Larson Moore

[happyseaurchin]

yes... i suppose... the trick is, how...? sounds like you have been there...

[PeaceProfit]

i*am all*ways there, we*are all*ways there, time and fear our*illusion, stepping beyond illusions is a matter of embracing and expanding ones state of contemplation to become a greater*part of our mortality, all*ways holding this openness within ones heart, ready to give and receive what is seen as appropriate action, that which is attracted to our*reality, that which is known to be compassionate, tolerant, understanding and loving.

Our HE(ART) of Peace.