question fast respond for coach chic . one of my favorite player is marian hossa because i love his game position with one hand on stick but when its time to get his job to take the puck go hard for it and how he skate, tell me coach do you think is a good observision to say something like that to be better in a game for improving your game please respond me? i read your comments and i loved your explain of vision types ?
The way I was taught was to is to move each arm in succession with each stride, i have noticed when you swing your arms whilst skating forward it puts you off balance.
I guess this should have been my first post, sorry.
I think a lot of people misunderstood the gist of this video... For, while a hockey player moves in countless ways doing a shift, this particular type of striding saves energy for when a player later goes all-out.
Besides studying under some of the world's top analysts, I've used video since 1979 to study the stride (and more). And, while a lot of PLAYERS think they skate differently, or feel like they pump their arms differently, the video shows proper (scientific) body mechanics (see next post).
All that said, I have noticed a few forward to backward arm pumpers to be fast straight-ahead. Their problem: they tend to be what I call "linear skaters", and have real difficulty with lateral movements. (It's all or nothing for them. Ironically, I don't think I've ever seen one of these types be good with the puck, probably because they're too committed -- with the arms and legs -- to a straight-ahead movement.
The take-off in hockey is almost identical to sprinting (outdoors). After only a few steps, however, the proper motion is show in the above movie (science says so).
As for your feelings... You might be doing things rightly but don't know it. Or, like many skaters, you might not be doing things properly. (That is, after all, the reason my partner made the video available to the masses.)
Months ago, a certain visitor started by calling the above video's producer "a moron". Checking her credentials (or profile), I found that she is 16-years old, but lies to YouTube by saying she is 22 (so she can view adult content). Now, an old coach can surely handle some insults; I also generally respect young players (as long as they give me cause); although I do wonder if "once a liar, always a liar". Those things in mind, I have mixed God-honest scientific evidence with a barb or two...
Henceforth, my main concern will be for those who truly want some help or clarification. As for the young lady(?) in question, I suspect she enjoys hearing herself talk. So, let's allow her to do just that for a time (I'm still up for being amused). Just don't forget that the above video contains awesome advice!
Well, royalbollocking says, "Scott Niedermayer is one of the fastest players. period. To his own testimonial it is because of the arm technique he uses. Im sure youl find google useful in confirming this..." Naw, I found YouTube even more useful! Just plug-in "Scott Niedermayer Practice", watch him skate, and tell me which way his arms pump. Interestingly, I find a lot of advanced skaters THINK they move a certain way. But, see for yourself if SN actually moves the way he believes.
Telling me to watch a video does not count as a scientific explination, i have viewed all of your comments and i am still waiting. use PHYSICS to tell me why i should look like a monkey. F=ma . the coefficients of F are mainly drag and friction. An increase in friction is noted when the arm moves sideways because of the increased sidewards momentum. The sidewards momentum needs an increase in friction to hold the blade steady as the movement is changed from forwards, to, forwards + side to side.
I have looked at Dr. Gaston Schaeffer or Dr. Michael R. Bracko and found their work to be a bias when comparing power and Performance skating. I cannot find anywhere in there PUBLISHED articles which suggest the pendulumn is more efficient. Please to save yourself some credit tell me why it is better to "pendulumn" (scientificly). do not fob me off with looking into Neidermayer, regardless of him, please give me a scientific explination. Or can you not, you do seem to keep dodging the point...
The Old Coach said tongue in cheek... I guess I'll just side with those poor PhDs (they'd probably commit suicide knowing a 16-year found their works wanting). Also, while you all of a sudden want to disregard studying Neidermayer's stride, I only provided that video reference in answer to your using him to make your (and Ms Stamm's?) case. Come to think of it, he is also likely to kill himself now that you no longer believe in his technique.
I fail to see the humour in this comment, and find it extremely disrepectful. regardless, Neidermayer was only one point repeated by you. You obviously have little understanding of basic physics, and cannot deem a suitable answer of your own to why swinging your arms like a monkey is a more suited way of skating. You have no idea of how a debate works and have countlesy switched point to try to discredit me or my sources.
I have been advised to point out any claims or accusations made by the person or persons writing under the name "TheCoachChic" regarding the personal actions of a Mr. Neidermayer, and implied Dr. Schaeffer and Dr. Bracko are totally unfounded, and also slanderous to the actions of "royalbollocking" who due to the legalities as age requests to stay anonymous during this disclaimer. This disclaimer was written with the help of legal advice, and all words hereby are agreed by "royalbollocking"
royalbollocking, I'm not sure what you're referring to -- when you say I'm right, or right again. My only hope is that you've finally checked on the literature I've suggested to you and others. Those ARE the scientific explanations, you know. Also, while I'm working on several other important but non-related projects, I'm also readying a few responses that should put this stuff to rest for good.
I may be slower than yourself, so for my sake could you please leave a comment showing me these scientific explinations... Put it to rest... if you can, of course...
Actually, I think I've pretty much made my case FOR THOSE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW (see earlier posts for all the scientific research one could need, and even for a video showing the likes of a Neidermayer pumping his arms while striding). So, while I usually try to help those in need, I can't do ALL of the work for them. My point, royalbollocking: study the research and the Neidermayer video, then talk to me ABOUT THEM.
You keep telling me, (rather to my annoyance) how i am 'muddying the waters'. I am still waiting for a scientfic explination for why the pendulum is better. At least i have offered an explination, which i think you should find is not nonsense. Could i ask yourself to look up the word hypocritical. Please tell me, scientifically why moving your arms side to side (SCIENTIFICALLY) is better... Instead of slandering me and trying to discredit me, Grow up and prove your own point.
im feeling quite proud that i have been mistaken for a coach. i am in fact 16, born 1991, and worried i am not. it is proven that a pendulum motion is deffering forward motion as it increases the friction coefficient which slows foward movement. whilst many could argue this is a minimal amount, it is certain more friction is increased this way, than is decreased when adding a rocker (which seems very popular). this is one small point of many more to come based on science. now for the counter?
Such a shame... I mean, muddying the waters further with a bunch of technical sounding terms that might impress the masses while further burying the real scientific information. (I keep asking myself, "Who gains from this?" Hmmmmmm...) So, royalbollocking, please do me and the rest of the skating population a couple of favors before you swamp us with more nonsense... Google the two guys I noted earlier, and even listen to Episode 14 of my on-line radio show, "Coach Chic's Hockey Secrets".
Dineen, Luc Robitaille, Doug Brown. I would like to say i am in no way trying to discredit CoachChic, and agree to your comments (especially your last one about a good player being more than a stride), i just personally believe that the perfect stride scientifically as well as literally is with an almost paralell arm axis. if you would like me to explain scientifically why it is better, please just ask. im still open to a SCIENTIFIC debate about why the pendulum is better.
royalbollocking, oh for a Smiley... This time, though, it's because I'm sensing that a worried instructor might be writing under the guise of a 16-year old. (Anyone else get that feeling?) That said, I and most other skills coaches could list as many high profile students. Frankly, there's no telling whether some of those guys did well in the game BECAUSE of us or DESPITE us. As I said before -- and you seemingly agreed, "An efficient stride isn't the measure of a hockey player..."
Also, royalbollocking, I'm wondering if you see the possible harm that can be done by swamping young skaters with more hype (like a long list of names) than real scientific evidence. Previously, I hadn't thought that any skating instructors would intentionally muddy the information waters. However, I'm quickly getting a different impression. So, next, look for a little hype and a lot of science...
As for the initial hype, consider these skaters: Andy McDonald, Sidney Crosby, Simon Gagne, Jason Blake, Matthew Lombardi, Alex Ovechkin, Mike Modano, Mats Sundin, Martin St. Louis, Vincent Lecavalier, Joe Sakic, Ryan Getzlaf, Nik Lidstrom, Sheldon Souray, Bret Hedican, Chris Pronger, Dion Phaneuf, Brian Rafalski, Zdeno Chara, Teppo Numminen, Mathieu Schneider, Delaney Collins, Hayley Wickenheiser, Jen Boterill, Becky Kellar, Gillian Apps and Angela Ruggiero (to name just a few)...
So, consider that a leading Canadian researcher (you do the Googling, royalbollocking) studied those people, and says, "All of the above mentioned players are "biomechanically perfect" skaters, ie: deep knee bend before push-off, forward lean of trunk, legs push to the side when striding (wide stride), quick recovery of skate after push-off, and arms (shoulder to elbow) move side-to-side in coordination with the legs." Still, royalbollocking, I can share even better scientific quotes if need be!
Erm, you cannot be Biomechanically perfect. Biomechanics is the wide term used to describe the physics within ones movement. you cannot get imperfect physics. Also it depends how you define perfect. i would not call having a pendulum effect ([arms] move side-to-side) perfect. Scott Niedermayer is one of the fastest players. period. To his own testimonial it is because of the arm technique he uses. Im sure youl find google useful in confirming this...
Ledyard, John MacLean, Bryan McCabe, Darren McCarty, George McPhee, Brendan Morrison, Larry Murphy, Rob Niedermayer, Scott Niedermayer, Darryl Shannon, Scott Young, Jack Blatherwick- Ph.D. Washington Capitals, Lou Vairo USA Hockey Director of Special Projects, Ron DeGregorio, President USA Hockey. August, 2006, Steve Duchesne, Kevin
How many succesful players with the straight arm swing are needed before it is a reliable, repeatable and valid argument that straight arm swinging is better? Laura stamn has trained to a great degree of success: Greg Brown, Terry Carkner, Sylvain Couturier, Ken Daneyko, Eric Desjardins, Ted Drury, Dave Gagner, Adam Graves, Kris King, Grant
Please tell me noone actually listened to that moron? He talks about balance, but having the pendulum effect with the arms means the quicker you go, the more you have to counter for your swinging arms with your feet... this robs you of energy and forward momentum. what a joke.
I wish I could paste a Smiley in here -- in reference to royalbollocking's comment. However, while the likes of PhDs support the information in that video(look-up Dr. Gaston Schaeffer or Dr. Michael R. Bracko), royalbollocking pretty much makes the point I tried to convey in an earlier post... I mean, it's difficult for skaters to sift through all the advice out there, particularly when the correct information keeps getting smothered by unfounded opinions (including those of a 16-year old).
I suggest taking the advice of the likes of Laura Stamn. Just because im 16 is enough to condemn me? its really simple physics. If you can explain how a sidewards motion helps your balance, or to skate forwards then im really open to listen. Also i was wondering if sprinters should start having there arms swing perpendicular to the forward motion?
First, royalbollocking, remember the Smiley I wished for your reply? At the same time, I think it's important for viewers to weigh where all the advice comes from (like the PhDs I cited vs anyone you'd like to suggest). That's exactly the problem I've raised several times, in that a lot of folks keep repeating things they've heard or read, without really knowing if the information is scientifically based. And so it goes... The scientific studies get buried under a ton of guesses. (See Next)
Secondly, in answer to your question... While hockey is a complex game, listen to what I'm saying in the video -- in that mainly the balancing action helps to conserve energy. Actually, a quick take-off IS much like running, with the first few thrusts being towards the rear, and the arms pumping forward and back (to balance-off THAT action). After the first few steps, however, a player's thrusts are outward, which calls for equal and opposite reactions in the upper body. (Please see next)
By the way... An efficient stride isn't the measure of a hockey player; it only helps if numerous other -- results-type -- skills and smarts are in place. Actually, I've noticed flaws in the strides of many great players (and even some hall of famers). The implication? That the straight-ahead stride pales in importance when compared to some other skating movements, puckhandling, passing, shooting, checking, decision-making and more.
Coach Chic must be doing something right he's put numerous players in the NHL, AHL, and Division 1 Colleges. The body needs balance and if the left foot pushes outward the arms have to balance it off by swinging out to the right side.
No, no joke. Actually, I feel badly for the guys and gals who want help with their skating. Unfortunately, the majority of the information available to them is guess-work, plus a goodly amount of flash and dash. The scientific studies are harder for them to find, so that's where I come in. FYI... We're not allowed to post URLs here, and that's why I suggested interested players, coaches and parents Google my on-line radio show ("Coach Chic's Hockey Secrets"), and listen to Episode 14.
If you want the real answer to a skater's stride -- and his or her correct arm movments, Google "Coach Chic's Hockey Secrets" and check-out Episode 14.
Has anybody here ever really studied the skill of skating, or is it ust speculation? Study the best hockey player's in the world and you'll clearly see the arm movement going forward and not side to side. Track sprinter's do not throw their arms forward, the upper body is relaxed and they are taught to run with their legs not their arms. The best way to find out is to ask a top flight track athlete/coach and they will tell you. That's exactly what I did. As a former NHL player, I can attest.
As mentioned,your sideways version will lose the nrg you're claiming to gain. You're arms will naturally be moving in opposition forward. Robby Glantz is the king of skating form.
Dude that was way off, first of all, when taking a stride you have to wrap your striding leg close to fully wrapping your leg around the other and there is that to say along with many other incorrect macanics to the actual postion and striding in ice hockey
I agree with chiplatt and BigJC16. As a hockey coach i would never tell my kids to move their arms side to side. You need the movement to help you move forward - side to side wastes energy. Whats the point in moving side to side if you're going forward? Conserve energy, and skate faster useing back and forth. A lot of people who just want to look 'the part' use the side to side method. Real players want to skate fast so back and forth will help them more.
No, the video is right. If you hadn't noticed, when you skate your legs push out to the sides, not forwards and backwards like with running. Runners move their arms back and forth to conserve the momentum produced by their legs - so their arms move the same way. Likewise with skating, the legs move out the sides, so the arms do the same to conserve momentum and balance.
When you skate you push out at a 45 degree angle. Your arms don't move to the side, you act as if you are reaching out. Because ultimately you are trying to get the longest stride out of each push.
No, watch any video of someone skating, or watch yourself - your legs push out sideways, perpendicular to the required motion. Your feet do point at an angle, but they still get pushed out directly sideways. Movement of the arms in that way is like a reaction to that foot movement, to help keep balance - which is why your arms will swing on the same plane of movement. Think about it.
I still see my way being great for me. In fact my speed is my greatest asset. Playing my last year of Jr B and now moving to D II college, I still rely on my method. But, I do see that my harms do come out to the side a bit, so yeah. I guess what works eh? : )
Every athlete should strive for perfection every day. As a former NHL player I can tell you that if you are not improving daily then you're getting worse and there is always someone waiting for the chance to take your job. I can also tell you that as a former D-1 player my job was in jeopardy every week until friday night's game, so we had to improve daily or we wouldn't play.
question fast respond for coach chic . one of my favorite player is marian hossa because i love his game position with one hand on stick but when its time to get his job to take the puck go hard for it and how he skate, tell me coach do you think is a good observision to say something like that to be better in a game for improving your game please respond me? i read your comments and i loved your explain of vision types ?
madthetop1 2 years ago
Comment removed
macsftw 3 years ago
Sorry, guess I can't help you.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
The way I was taught was to is to move each arm in succession with each stride, i have noticed when you swing your arms whilst skating forward it puts you off balance.
I guess this should have been my first post, sorry.
macsftw 3 years ago
I think a lot of people misunderstood the gist of this video... For, while a hockey player moves in countless ways doing a shift, this particular type of striding saves energy for when a player later goes all-out.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Okay but isn't it best to learn to skate with arms swinging forward first than than from side to side?
macsftw 3 years ago
Besides studying under some of the world's top analysts, I've used video since 1979 to study the stride (and more). And, while a lot of PLAYERS think they skate differently, or feel like they pump their arms differently, the video shows proper (scientific) body mechanics (see next post).
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
All that said, I have noticed a few forward to backward arm pumpers to be fast straight-ahead. Their problem: they tend to be what I call "linear skaters", and have real difficulty with lateral movements. (It's all or nothing for them. Ironically, I don't think I've ever seen one of these types be good with the puck, probably because they're too committed -- with the arms and legs -- to a straight-ahead movement.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
When I'm in a sprint to the puck I know I swing my arms forward and back.
same when I'm skating for fun, picking up speed.
macsftw 3 years ago
The take-off in hockey is almost identical to sprinting (outdoors). After only a few steps, however, the proper motion is show in the above movie (science says so).
As for your feelings... You might be doing things rightly but don't know it. Or, like many skaters, you might not be doing things properly. (That is, after all, the reason my partner made the video available to the masses.)
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
I apologise for being rude before.
macsftw 3 years ago
My sincere apologies to those following the past few months worth of comments. But, let me explain in more detail in the next post...
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Months ago, a certain visitor started by calling the above video's producer "a moron". Checking her credentials (or profile), I found that she is 16-years old, but lies to YouTube by saying she is 22 (so she can view adult content). Now, an old coach can surely handle some insults; I also generally respect young players (as long as they give me cause); although I do wonder if "once a liar, always a liar". Those things in mind, I have mixed God-honest scientific evidence with a barb or two...
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Henceforth, my main concern will be for those who truly want some help or clarification. As for the young lady(?) in question, I suspect she enjoys hearing herself talk. So, let's allow her to do just that for a time (I'm still up for being amused). Just don't forget that the above video contains awesome advice!
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
My fried royalbollocking is male, and is no more a liar than yourself. This technique is pure...%^$^&$
Prozac5647 3 years ago
LOL, royalbollocking! That Prozac isn't working, huh?
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Well, royalbollocking says, "Scott Niedermayer is one of the fastest players. period. To his own testimonial it is because of the arm technique he uses. Im sure youl find google useful in confirming this..." Naw, I found YouTube even more useful! Just plug-in "Scott Niedermayer Practice", watch him skate, and tell me which way his arms pump. Interestingly, I find a lot of advanced skaters THINK they move a certain way. But, see for yourself if SN actually moves the way he believes.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Telling me to watch a video does not count as a scientific explination, i have viewed all of your comments and i am still waiting. use PHYSICS to tell me why i should look like a monkey. F=ma . the coefficients of F are mainly drag and friction. An increase in friction is noted when the arm moves sideways because of the increased sidewards momentum. The sidewards momentum needs an increase in friction to hold the blade steady as the movement is changed from forwards, to, forwards + side to side.
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Which all suggests to me that you haven't yet looked into the REAL research, nor studied your favorite Neidermayer.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
I have looked at Dr. Gaston Schaeffer or Dr. Michael R. Bracko and found their work to be a bias when comparing power and Performance skating. I cannot find anywhere in there PUBLISHED articles which suggest the pendulumn is more efficient. Please to save yourself some credit tell me why it is better to "pendulumn" (scientificly). do not fob me off with looking into Neidermayer, regardless of him, please give me a scientific explination. Or can you not, you do seem to keep dodging the point...
royalbollocking 3 years ago
The Old Coach said tongue in cheek... I guess I'll just side with those poor PhDs (they'd probably commit suicide knowing a 16-year found their works wanting). Also, while you all of a sudden want to disregard studying Neidermayer's stride, I only provided that video reference in answer to your using him to make your (and Ms Stamm's?) case. Come to think of it, he is also likely to kill himself now that you no longer believe in his technique.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
I fail to see the humour in this comment, and find it extremely disrepectful. regardless, Neidermayer was only one point repeated by you. You obviously have little understanding of basic physics, and cannot deem a suitable answer of your own to why swinging your arms like a monkey is a more suited way of skating. You have no idea of how a debate works and have countlesy switched point to try to discredit me or my sources.
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Sorry, but I can't help repeating, "Actually, I think I've pretty much made my case FOR THOSE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW..."
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
I have been advised to point out any claims or accusations made by the person or persons writing under the name "TheCoachChic" regarding the personal actions of a Mr. Neidermayer, and implied Dr. Schaeffer and Dr. Bracko are totally unfounded, and also slanderous to the actions of "royalbollocking" who due to the legalities as age requests to stay anonymous during this disclaimer. This disclaimer was written with the help of legal advice, and all words hereby are agreed by "royalbollocking"
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Sorry, but I can't help repeating, "Actually, I think I've pretty much made my case FOR THOSE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW..."
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
royalbollocking, I'm not sure what you're referring to -- when you say I'm right, or right again. My only hope is that you've finally checked on the literature I've suggested to you and others. Those ARE the scientific explanations, you know. Also, while I'm working on several other important but non-related projects, I'm also readying a few responses that should put this stuff to rest for good.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
I may be slower than yourself, so for my sake could you please leave a comment showing me these scientific explinations... Put it to rest... if you can, of course...
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Actually, I think I've pretty much made my case FOR THOSE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW (see earlier posts for all the scientific research one could need, and even for a video showing the likes of a Neidermayer pumping his arms while striding). So, while I usually try to help those in need, I can't do ALL of the work for them. My point, royalbollocking: study the research and the Neidermayer video, then talk to me ABOUT THEM.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
You keep telling me, (rather to my annoyance) how i am 'muddying the waters'. I am still waiting for a scientfic explination for why the pendulum is better. At least i have offered an explination, which i think you should find is not nonsense. Could i ask yourself to look up the word hypocritical. Please tell me, scientifically why moving your arms side to side (SCIENTIFICALLY) is better... Instead of slandering me and trying to discredit me, Grow up and prove your own point.
royalbollocking 3 years ago
im feeling quite proud that i have been mistaken for a coach. i am in fact 16, born 1991, and worried i am not. it is proven that a pendulum motion is deffering forward motion as it increases the friction coefficient which slows foward movement. whilst many could argue this is a minimal amount, it is certain more friction is increased this way, than is decreased when adding a rocker (which seems very popular). this is one small point of many more to come based on science. now for the counter?
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Such a shame... I mean, muddying the waters further with a bunch of technical sounding terms that might impress the masses while further burying the real scientific information. (I keep asking myself, "Who gains from this?" Hmmmmmm...) So, royalbollocking, please do me and the rest of the skating population a couple of favors before you swamp us with more nonsense... Google the two guys I noted earlier, and even listen to Episode 14 of my on-line radio show, "Coach Chic's Hockey Secrets".
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Dineen, Luc Robitaille, Doug Brown. I would like to say i am in no way trying to discredit CoachChic, and agree to your comments (especially your last one about a good player being more than a stride), i just personally believe that the perfect stride scientifically as well as literally is with an almost paralell arm axis. if you would like me to explain scientifically why it is better, please just ask. im still open to a SCIENTIFIC debate about why the pendulum is better.
royalbollocking 3 years ago
royalbollocking, oh for a Smiley... This time, though, it's because I'm sensing that a worried instructor might be writing under the guise of a 16-year old. (Anyone else get that feeling?) That said, I and most other skills coaches could list as many high profile students. Frankly, there's no telling whether some of those guys did well in the game BECAUSE of us or DESPITE us. As I said before -- and you seemingly agreed, "An efficient stride isn't the measure of a hockey player..."
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Also, royalbollocking, I'm wondering if you see the possible harm that can be done by swamping young skaters with more hype (like a long list of names) than real scientific evidence. Previously, I hadn't thought that any skating instructors would intentionally muddy the information waters. However, I'm quickly getting a different impression. So, next, look for a little hype and a lot of science...
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
As for the initial hype, consider these skaters: Andy McDonald, Sidney Crosby, Simon Gagne, Jason Blake, Matthew Lombardi, Alex Ovechkin, Mike Modano, Mats Sundin, Martin St. Louis, Vincent Lecavalier, Joe Sakic, Ryan Getzlaf, Nik Lidstrom, Sheldon Souray, Bret Hedican, Chris Pronger, Dion Phaneuf, Brian Rafalski, Zdeno Chara, Teppo Numminen, Mathieu Schneider, Delaney Collins, Hayley Wickenheiser, Jen Boterill, Becky Kellar, Gillian Apps and Angela Ruggiero (to name just a few)...
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
So, consider that a leading Canadian researcher (you do the Googling, royalbollocking) studied those people, and says, "All of the above mentioned players are "biomechanically perfect" skaters, ie: deep knee bend before push-off, forward lean of trunk, legs push to the side when striding (wide stride), quick recovery of skate after push-off, and arms (shoulder to elbow) move side-to-side in coordination with the legs." Still, royalbollocking, I can share even better scientific quotes if need be!
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Erm, you cannot be Biomechanically perfect. Biomechanics is the wide term used to describe the physics within ones movement. you cannot get imperfect physics. Also it depends how you define perfect. i would not call having a pendulum effect ([arms] move side-to-side) perfect. Scott Niedermayer is one of the fastest players. period. To his own testimonial it is because of the arm technique he uses. Im sure youl find google useful in confirming this...
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Ledyard, John MacLean, Bryan McCabe, Darren McCarty, George McPhee, Brendan Morrison, Larry Murphy, Rob Niedermayer, Scott Niedermayer, Darryl Shannon, Scott Young, Jack Blatherwick- Ph.D. Washington Capitals, Lou Vairo USA Hockey Director of Special Projects, Ron DeGregorio, President USA Hockey. August, 2006, Steve Duchesne, Kevin
royalbollocking 3 years ago
How many succesful players with the straight arm swing are needed before it is a reliable, repeatable and valid argument that straight arm swinging is better? Laura stamn has trained to a great degree of success: Greg Brown, Terry Carkner, Sylvain Couturier, Ken Daneyko, Eric Desjardins, Ted Drury, Dave Gagner, Adam Graves, Kris King, Grant
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Please tell me noone actually listened to that moron? He talks about balance, but having the pendulum effect with the arms means the quicker you go, the more you have to counter for your swinging arms with your feet... this robs you of energy and forward momentum. what a joke.
royalbollocking 3 years ago
I wish I could paste a Smiley in here -- in reference to royalbollocking's comment. However, while the likes of PhDs support the information in that video(look-up Dr. Gaston Schaeffer or Dr. Michael R. Bracko), royalbollocking pretty much makes the point I tried to convey in an earlier post... I mean, it's difficult for skaters to sift through all the advice out there, particularly when the correct information keeps getting smothered by unfounded opinions (including those of a 16-year old).
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
I suggest taking the advice of the likes of Laura Stamn. Just because im 16 is enough to condemn me? its really simple physics. If you can explain how a sidewards motion helps your balance, or to skate forwards then im really open to listen. Also i was wondering if sprinters should start having there arms swing perpendicular to the forward motion?
royalbollocking 3 years ago
First, royalbollocking, remember the Smiley I wished for your reply? At the same time, I think it's important for viewers to weigh where all the advice comes from (like the PhDs I cited vs anyone you'd like to suggest). That's exactly the problem I've raised several times, in that a lot of folks keep repeating things they've heard or read, without really knowing if the information is scientifically based. And so it goes... The scientific studies get buried under a ton of guesses. (See Next)
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Secondly, in answer to your question... While hockey is a complex game, listen to what I'm saying in the video -- in that mainly the balancing action helps to conserve energy. Actually, a quick take-off IS much like running, with the first few thrusts being towards the rear, and the arms pumping forward and back (to balance-off THAT action). After the first few steps, however, a player's thrusts are outward, which calls for equal and opposite reactions in the upper body. (Please see next)
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
By the way... An efficient stride isn't the measure of a hockey player; it only helps if numerous other -- results-type -- skills and smarts are in place. Actually, I've noticed flaws in the strides of many great players (and even some hall of famers). The implication? That the straight-ahead stride pales in importance when compared to some other skating movements, puckhandling, passing, shooting, checking, decision-making and more.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
Coach Chic must be doing something right he's put numerous players in the NHL, AHL, and Division 1 Colleges. The body needs balance and if the left foot pushes outward the arms have to balance it off by swinging out to the right side.
CoachJHockey 3 years ago
No, no joke. Actually, I feel badly for the guys and gals who want help with their skating. Unfortunately, the majority of the information available to them is guess-work, plus a goodly amount of flash and dash. The scientific studies are harder for them to find, so that's where I come in. FYI... We're not allowed to post URLs here, and that's why I suggested interested players, coaches and parents Google my on-line radio show ("Coach Chic's Hockey Secrets"), and listen to Episode 14.
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
i think that was supposed to be a joke
panicatthecloset 3 years ago
If you want the real answer to a skater's stride -- and his or her correct arm movments, Google "Coach Chic's Hockey Secrets" and check-out Episode 14.
TheCoachChic 4 years ago
Has anybody here ever really studied the skill of skating, or is it ust speculation? Study the best hockey player's in the world and you'll clearly see the arm movement going forward and not side to side. Track sprinter's do not throw their arms forward, the upper body is relaxed and they are taught to run with their legs not their arms. The best way to find out is to ask a top flight track athlete/coach and they will tell you. That's exactly what I did. As a former NHL player, I can attest.
Goodtown1 4 years ago
As mentioned,your sideways version will lose the nrg you're claiming to gain. You're arms will naturally be moving in opposition forward. Robby Glantz is the king of skating form.
borntobewilder9 4 years ago
I'm sure this is wrong. Too much energy and speed lost through moving the arms side ways.
registrationviainter 4 years ago
you move your arms the same way you do when you sprint
stuntsmagic08 4 years ago
if you move your arms from side to side you are breaking momentum of forward movement.
The old timers call this "pitching hay"
The arms should be forward like running.
teletoon90 4 years ago
again, you are right
royalbollocking 3 years ago
????
TheCoachChic 3 years ago
i replied to people who take the same view as me, yet it came up as a comment.
royalbollocking 3 years ago
Dude that was way off, first of all, when taking a stride you have to wrap your striding leg close to fully wrapping your leg around the other and there is that to say along with many other incorrect macanics to the actual postion and striding in ice hockey
louispark11 4 years ago
yeah u need your arms pumping forward not side this will generate speed when skating forwards
16coxy 4 years ago
yah right
sasaku55 4 years ago
very right.
royalbollocking 3 years ago
haha,wow....
bananapus23 4 years ago
ur wrong a player should moe his arms back and fourth not side to side. you want all your power going forward not to the side
chiplatt 5 years ago
yup he knows his stuff this video is bunk
BigJC16 5 years ago
I agree with chiplatt and BigJC16. As a hockey coach i would never tell my kids to move their arms side to side. You need the movement to help you move forward - side to side wastes energy. Whats the point in moving side to side if you're going forward? Conserve energy, and skate faster useing back and forth. A lot of people who just want to look 'the part' use the side to side method. Real players want to skate fast so back and forth will help them more.
zadrak 4 years ago
No, the video is right. If you hadn't noticed, when you skate your legs push out to the sides, not forwards and backwards like with running. Runners move their arms back and forth to conserve the momentum produced by their legs - so their arms move the same way. Likewise with skating, the legs move out the sides, so the arms do the same to conserve momentum and balance.
HeathwoodStudios 4 years ago
When you skate you push out at a 45 degree angle. Your arms don't move to the side, you act as if you are reaching out. Because ultimately you are trying to get the longest stride out of each push.
Ballpuncher 4 years ago
No, watch any video of someone skating, or watch yourself - your legs push out sideways, perpendicular to the required motion. Your feet do point at an angle, but they still get pushed out directly sideways. Movement of the arms in that way is like a reaction to that foot movement, to help keep balance - which is why your arms will swing on the same plane of movement. Think about it.
HeathwoodStudios 4 years ago
I still see my way being great for me. In fact my speed is my greatest asset. Playing my last year of Jr B and now moving to D II college, I still rely on my method. But, I do see that my harms do come out to the side a bit, so yeah. I guess what works eh? : )
Ballpuncher 4 years ago
Every athlete should strive for perfection every day. As a former NHL player I can tell you that if you are not improving daily then you're getting worse and there is always someone waiting for the chance to take your job. I can also tell you that as a former D-1 player my job was in jeopardy every week until friday night's game, so we had to improve daily or we wouldn't play.
Goodtown1 4 years ago
nice
muffy123puffy 5 years ago