NATURE | Chasing Big Cats | Poetry in Motion | PBS

[MBVPKR]

0:15 poker face

[hargadee]

i vote for crocodiles too.

[Alubre]

0:52 matador movement

[HuckleberrySlim]

you wouldnt want to be that gazelle would u?

[Jefferdaughter]

@HuckleberrySlim - If I must die, let it be with such grace, and to such useful purpose as to feed a cheetah.

[deomino09]

watch my Atlanta video

[Methadone4Life]

Awesome footage. All cats are fantastic..perfect predators.

[mndamba]

great shooting! it's spectacular and thrilling!

[105km]

Actually wild dogs dont scavange from cheetahs and woltures can wery wery rearly make cheetahs leave their meals...

And if lions move in to more populated cheetah habitat, that dosent mean they will die out in there... There are allready cheetahs in densly populated lion habitats, like the Serengethi, but they have been there for a wery long time - 20 000 years and have not died out... The population is not wery big, but that dosent mean its not stable..

[105km]

and if you say - COULD AFTER .. YEARS -, that dosent mean natural selection IS acuring for the cheetah... Eventually all spiecies die out and others replace them in theyr nishes. Nature is not the balance, we like to think it is, it is caotic and unstable for some spiecies untill they die out...

[105km]

But right now, in the world and for the past 20 000 years, nothing has changed for the cheetah, why would it change now? There is plenty of prey in the places where the number of hervivores resembles the number that would be if not for humans. There ar no more other predators the in the past 20 000 years, why would it die out now? The cheetah flurished untill we shot them them out... No, my friend, you just dont understand - I tell you - nature is healpng the cheetah, not killing it...

[b4igetu]

yes things have changed for the cheetah, they gotten smaller, they used to inhabit large areas and now only africa and some in iran. they even used to be in north america, obviously the iceage killed them here.

they originated 4 million years ago before any other big cat today. look at them, they are the smallest one of the least populated, and very geneticly similar, while all other big cats flourised. this may be natural selection working slowly.

[105km]

Scieentists are stil arguing weather the bottleneck ocured 20000 or 10000 years ago...

But you still havent convinced me altough I have rad all your replies, why, if cheetahs flurished and their population was only growing up un till the 1900ies, and there were even more other predators -cub killers and kill stealers, why would it die out now?

In the last 1000 years many, many other predators have become extinct,

[b4igetu]

the bottle neck occured 10 000 years ago during the last iceage. this is when they died out in north america, europe, asia, and some of africa. its the ice age that killed them along with a host of other animals like mammoth or giant short faced bear, or giant sloth.

a least known member of north america back then was, a north american lion, theya rnt as known few fossils found, but the population was desimated in n.america, but stayed and prospered in africa, with no inbreeding.

[b4igetu]

it may have a large natural range, this doesnt mean it cant have few numbers. for the range it covers, there are only about 12,000 individuals. as you know namibia has the largest population, although the majority of them here are on reserves.

and no they wernt prospering and growing before the 1900s, thats when the human problem started, they were tammed and used for coursing. thats what happened to the population, they were all brought in to be human companions like dogs.

[b4igetu]

i hope the cheetah can be saved i love, but this is very much the truth, and i hope conservation efforts, help and dont throw off nature

[105km]

-yes things have changed for the cheetah, they gotten smaller, they used to inhabit large areas and now only africa and some in iran. they even used to be in north america-

How many times do I have to rpieat - that is not natural, the cheetahs natural range is all of Africa, the middle east and India

[b4igetu]

well if you knew anything about cheetahs, you would realize the onve there is many viultures on a meal, this attracts other animals in the area, which does force cheetahs off their meal. cheetahs know the vultures are atracting other animals, and other animals know what do do when they see vultures.

yes cheetahs and lions can live together, but like you said cheetahs in small population, which is stable. but the cheetah gets kicked off alot of meals.

[105km]

your argument obout the kill stealing and pushing oround makes completly no sence - yes leopards, lions, hyenas do push cheetahs off theyr kills, but they have been doing it for all the cheetahs spiecies life and still, theyr population has only NATURALLY grown and expanded, even tough was even more competition...

[b4igetu]

yeah but lions, and leopards, didnt start appearing at the same time cheetahs did. the cheetah started appearing in n.s.america first then worked itw way over to africa, across the land bridge. about 1 million years ago the lion started appearing but started in africa. the cheetahs the first appeared in africa, about 200,000 years ago, were about the same physical apperance, as they are now. the lion was already the top animal there, and the cheetah never regrew in population. it stablized.

[105km]

1. Scieentists are still arguing obout when the bottleneck ocured - maybe 10, maybe 20 000 years ago...

2. Ower time, the cheetahs genetic diversity can change, as it has allready changed alot, oltough the genes are still very similar...

3. If the cheetah did expand as far as it did (Naturally) , after the bottleneck, with even more predators oround, that means that nature is healping the cheetah - if they are expanding, that means populations are growing...

[105km]

Its as simple as that... What do you not get? Your not the brightest mind are you?

Your saying - cheetahs were tamed and used for hunting - I allready sayed - I know all obout cheetahs - I know that, - it has no place in our argument, becouse we allredy have agreed that humans are a problem - this is not natural!

But before that - 2000 years ago, cheetah populations werent droping, becous becous humans iddnt have guns and diddnt use them for hunting...

[105km]

offcorse deformaties do kill many individuals, but as you can see, by the cheetahs historical range, they havent been a problem for the spiecies, becouse thay have expanded so far and if they have expanded at all, that means, the population is growing... If the cheetah populations would have stoped growing, they would have died out allready in a wery short time, but they were doing great before human populations growd and klled them, like lions and leopards...

[b4igetu]

but their population isnt growing, its pretty much stablized now, humans are having problems making them genetlicly different, as they arnt reproducing in captivity, and farmers still kill them.

there population is starting to stablize, animal territories are becoming less congested. but the inbreeding is still a huge concern as what they tried to do so far to fix it isnt working.

[105km]

Tell me - if they expanded to their natural range and their populations gruw to their maximum in that range, with even more other predators oround and were stable untill humans, why would they die out naturally now?

I will not answer any more to your replys, becous I have allready proven my point...

If your not smart enough to understand it, then I cant healp you...

[b4igetu]

ok what ever quit but im going to say this. just because they cover a large range doesnt mean there population is growing it just means they are migrating, weather its due to humans, or lack of food. some migratory birds cover ranges, that are thousands and thousands such as the whooping crane which there are less then 500 of, yet they cover a range of 4000 miles or more.

so because the cheetah has a large range doesnt mean there is a large population

[105km]

Ahh, maybe you want to give me your skype name, so I can explain to you better?

[105km]

And the cheetah population is not stabalized, its still declining, becous 90% of them live of farm lands. And it will keep on declining, becous human populations are rising rapidly and farming is becoming moders, but again - there was no point of disscussing this, becous we allready both agreed that humans are a threat

[b4igetu]

i never said it is stabilized, i said its stablizing, if you read what i said you would know what i said. farmers arnt killing as much of them anymore. the population isnt growing it is still declineing just not as much.

[105km]

Ok, you can think what you want, lets not talk obout it anymore...

[Blinx56]

trollop

[GingerWoods1992]

closest thing to evolutionary perfection on this planet

[b4igetu]

unfortunently its not though, being fast comes at the price of being small and all other animals push it around and take its kill. its hard to tell but some say the cheetah is being naturally selected to go extinct others say its humans causing its dwindling population

[105km]

thats stupid - in the 1900 there were a 100000 cheetahs, now there are 10000-15000, If the cheetah did expand to India, Azia, and all of Africa, that means the wild is healping the cheetah - naturally the cheetah population is growing. Hyenas and lions do steall cheetah kills, but the % of klls the cheetah does get to eat is enough. The cheetah has been around atleast 3 million years, but only endangered for some 50 or so years- humans are responsible.

[b4igetu]

there was already cheetahs living in india asia, and the middle east, they have gone extinct their, execpt small population in iran and whats left in africa.

the population isnt on the rise though, all cheetahs in africa are very geneticly similar, as small populations have resulted in very close cheetahs to make, making them supsptible to desiese, human population is increasing not helping the cat, as namibia is the only country with laws to protect it.

[105km]

So - thats what Im saying - we are responsible! Cheetahs have had a wery poor genetic diversity since the bottleneck some- 20000years ago -, but still, since then they have expanded into Asia, india, Africa. Only in the past 100 years have they become endangered, but I emagine, other carnivores havent been killing cubs and stealling meals any more then in the past 20000 years... Read my previous comment, I never denyed humans werent a threat... I deny that cheetahs are becoming extinct naturally

[b4igetu]

i get what ur saying i wasnt trying to go against you. humans definently are the biggest problem, distruction of habitat, killing them if they see them around their farms, poachers, and killing just to have it as a trophy.

but some scientists think that natural selection may be part of it to, humans are contributing the most problems, but natural selcection might be pushing them out to

[105km]

I understand what your sayning. I aree on the hyman part...

But the natural selection part is wrong... A mass extinction of cheetahs ocured some 20000 years age, ince then cheetahs have had low genetic wariation. But still, they had expanded into the near east, India, and all of Africs, - so that means the cheetah populations is naturally growing and expanding. Naturally the wild is healping the cheetah...

[b4igetu]

i know there are a small population in iran, im not sure if they are in india, but there genetic similarity is caused by over hunting and that large populations or being pushed into small areas, causing imbreeding to occur.

there is only 13,000 left in the wild and all occur in small pockets, the biggest pocket is very geneticly similar.

they are thinking or releasing all the cheetahs form every zoo in the world to help get some genetic diversity.

[105km]

ahhh... - you dont get it... I never sayed thre are cheetahs in India, I sayed that cheetahs were in India, the middle east and all of Africa up untill 1900 (not now - up untill 1900 (its 2008) - GET IT?)

And cheetahs are not geneticly similar becous theyr populations are fragmented. Read some science... Cheetahs almost went extinct some 20 000 years ago. All the chetahs today are decendents of only a handfull that survieved, thats why theyr genes are so similar - thats called a bottleneck.

[b4igetu]

you said cheetahs arnt geneticly similar then you went on to say, and i quote "All the chetahs today are decendents of only a handfull that survieved, thats why theyr genes are so similar". you just contradicted yourself their.

[105km]

when did I say cheetahs are not geneticly wery similar? I dont think I sayed that, but if you say, maybe I meisspeleed...

[b4igetu]

the link i have to proove this wont let me post my comment so heres what you do.

1. go to google

2. type in cheetah conservation fund

3. should be first one

4. on side bar go over about the cheetah

5. click on cheetah facts

6. read paragraphs under DISTRIBUTION

[105km]

75% percent of cubs being killed, 50% of food being stolen -that depends on the erea - in Botswana - 65% of the cubs do survive and alot fewer kills are stolen... But think - even if 75% of them are killed, that still means the populations is growing... A cheetah mother has 6 cubs, if 75% die - 2 survive, that still means the population is growing... even if 7/8 die, it still means the population is growing, cuz a mother has many litters in here life... Nature IS healping the cheetah, we are not

[105km]

Im not saying you wrong - Im just saying the scieentists that think natural selection is pusshing the cheetah are wrong :)

[b4igetu]

im not aying your wrong, humans are definently the major cause of cheetahs dieing out, either for sport, or farmland, but because, all the cheetahs predators are also being pushed around by human expansion, this reduces the te habitat for all the animals.

with less food, from competition, and cheetahs kills being stolen, 50% of prey caught is stolen, and 75 percent of cubs being killed isnt helping. natural selection is possible, even though humans are the major problem.

[105km]

Yeah - I agree on the human part...

But not the natural selection. And the % of cheetah kills stolen depends on the erea... Not all places are like the Serengethi - Tanzania alone has half of the worlds lions in it - logicly - more kills are stolen...

Nut think obout it - try to understand... How can it be natural selection? Cheetahs have expanded into Africa, Asia and India since the extinction. That means, naturally, cheetahs are expanding, hence - naturally cheetah populations are growing.

[105km]

Think - true, cheetahs have low genetic diversity - that makes them susptable to desease, but it hasnt toppled them like som of teyr rivals (sabertooth cats, mammuths, ect)... And if the cheetah expanded so far - Africa, Asia, India, then nature is actually healping... Naturally, if we would remove all the humans from the world, the cheetah population would naturally, ewentually spread to all of Africa, Asia and India as it allready once did.

[b4igetu]

your right about the % and the area they live in and i agree. there has been no deseases that has come into the population yet, if one does the it will kill a vast majority of the cheetahs. thats why they are thinking of releasing all the captive cheetahs into the wild, so they can get some genetic diversity and not be wiped out.

[105km]

Look - how could natural selection be pushing them out? as I sayed in 1900 there were 100000 cheetahs in all of Africa, India, Near East... so - if they expanded so far, that means - nature is not pushing the cheetah - nature is healping, if they expanded so far, that means, naturaly, cheetah populations are aturaly growing... Get it? In 1900 there were 100000 cheetahs now - 13 000

Like many other spiecies, the cheetah has become endangered only in the past 50 years.

try to understand...

[b4igetu]

the cheetah population as you have said before used to cover many countries, like asia and india. today they are only found in africa and a population of less then 100 in iran. due to loss of prey items the population in iran is going extinct.

in africa the population is doing alot better, but with increasing human activity. namibia contains the largest population of cheetahs but there population is half of what it was a few decades ago.

they continue to decline by loss of prey

(con't)

[b4igetu]

read my other comment starting in bold

[b4igetu]

sorry it starts in caps, it doesnt post under your name

[b4igetu]

competition with other animals for food. although the cheetah is starting to stablize in africa, less are being killed by hunters and farmers, and their is more prey to go around. at some point if this trend continues the population shouldnt go up or down, unless a desease rips through the population and kills many of them.

[105km]

look, man... I am a huge cheetah fan, all those things you sayed obout the destribution and dezeases, I allready knew... I agree on ewrything you say, exept the NATURAL EXTINCTION part... And obout Iran: there have been conservation programs strated there and the cheetahs prey items are endangeread so their protected... India even asked for a couple of asiatic cheetahs from Iran to try to repopulate India, but Iran refused...

[b4igetu]

ok what ever, i still beleive that humans are the number one problem for cheetahs, by alot, but there can still be some natural selection occuring. and the iran population is dieing out, there is not a sufficient supply of food for them, and there is a very low population. there would never be enough food to supply a larger cheetah population in iran, let alone the 100 that live there now

[105km]

ahh,I explained many times that natral selection cant be an issue,I explaied it so its undoubtable,but I guess you just dont understand...So think what you want...No arguing that humans are the biggest threat, a desease in a big threat olso,but the population hasnt been wiped out in places with rebies or antrax as you might expect...

And Iran: they have enough prey-Jebeer Gazelle and others (cant remember names)are endangered, but there are enough of them right now and conservation will healp.

[b4igetu]

im sure the amount of prey in iran, will hold off the population of 100, but its not going to sustain any growth of the cheetah population. predator population follows prey population. prey go down predator go down.

i know humans and desease are the biggest problem, no reason to rule out natural selection. if lion populations were to go down, more prey would be killed, cheetah would be pushed off alot more meals, natural selection would be occuring then. doesnt need big change to cause it.

[105km]

The conservation program dosent just healp the cheetah, lol... Its olso healping its pray, noone there is stupid enough to think that cheetahs can survive without prey...

And as for the lions - why would lion populations grow? Thats not possible. Becous lions live in prides of 4 - 12 (adults), each pride has its own territory. If the population would grow, that would just mean more prides, in more territories, but theetahs allready live with lion prides...

[b4igetu]

with the onset of climate change occuring, deserts are becoming larger. this will cause less vegitation for prey items such as gazzele or zebra. predator follows prey. all prey will move to find food. this will cause predators to come close together, creating competition for territory, or food.

this can also be expressed in terms caused chaos theory. nature cannot be determined, and its always unpredictable.

[105km]

And I emagine, if there would be an oportunity for lions to expand, so their populations grow, cheetahs would use it too, and nothing would be different from how its now, there would just be more lion prides with as many lions in each as there are now, and more cheetahs in the same territorey...(understand) - its only parralel.

And as for the prey - cheetahs dont hunt the same prey as lions, the lions prey - gnus, zebras, topi, buffalo is to big for the cgheetah.

[b4igetu]

and their are many ways a lion population can expand. either by migration into a more populated cheetah habitat, or movment of a favorite prey type.

[b4igetu]

climate change is causing alot of problems with nature and what i said before is an example of what could happen. but some of it is already occuring, like less vegitation, or water holes drying up faster then they are supposed to. when the prey starts to loose the predator starts to loose and the cheetah is at the bottom.

it is starting to happen, and the cheetah might just loose, you cant just cast everything aside, and base knowledge on the past occurences.

[105km]

Well, thats happening in South Africa and is a threat for all animals, not only the cheetah...

And besides I dont think Inia is becoming a deasert... Naturally, cheetahs would be in India, so you cant say cheetahs would become extinct naturally...

And besides, cheetahs and hervivores allready live in the Kalahari, naturally would live in the Sahara and they were ok till we shot olmost all of them (there are few cheetahs in the Sahara left) out, just like lions and leopards...

[105km]

There are cheetahs, are gazelles, are lions, are leopards and even elephants in the Namibias deserts...

[105km]

There - can you counter my arguments below? I understand, that eventually, natural selection pushes all spiecies out, but if we are speaking naturally, right now (RIGHT NOW), if not for humans, the cheetah would be flurishing and its population would only grow, oltough it wouldent have anywere left to spread (too cold), like it has been happening since cheetahs claimed thayr full, natural range (all of Africa, India, Middle east).

Dude - if your smart, you will admit you were wrong...

[105km]

I do agree cheetahs are dieing out, but it wouldent happane naturally, the wild is healping the cheetah, we humans are the reason of their demise...

And before you answer that naturall selection has something to do with it, read my prewious posts - I allready proved that it dosent...

[b4igetu]

and those animals never suffered inbreeding. this whole thing since the last ice age, and what i put in the last message i sent you is all natural selection, they thrived back then, an iceage, which is nature, wiped out alot of cheetah, creating the bottleneck, and inbreeding.

the inbreeding is caused by nature and natural selection. natural selection is still working on the cheetah even now.

[b4igetu]

well 10,000 years ago when the last iceage occured, creating a bottlenec for the cheetah, theats when inbred cheetahs started appearing, and still do today. this causes problems of deformation, you cant see by looking at pictures, but things such as teeth and deformed claws are becoming found, and claws are a very big part in its speed.

just think the population 10,000 years ago was huge with cheetahs, since then the cheetah has never been able to recover. other animals did

[b4igetu]

gemstock are the only large animal that is the most widespread animal in nabibias. all other animals live on the very edge where they can still reach water.

[b4igetu]

yeah i realize its a threat for smaller animals, but the cheetah is the smallest so it will get pushed around alot easier. its like if their was a world blackout, the people with guns would be on top of the people with a bat.

and yes they live in the kalahari, but they only live in the semi desert areas, with sufficient shade or, high points.

they are mostly found in plains and praries of africa. theres a reason there is a larger population in praries and plains, then deserts.

[105km]

And the cheetahs and leopards prey - Springbok, Impalla, Thomsons gazelle (in serengeti) amd other small and medium sized gazelles and antilopes, is too small and fast for the lion.

You obviously dont understand what is evolution... Think - why would the cheetah naturally die out now? (desease and humans are a different matter, we both agree, lets not talk obout it now). Cheetah populations have been naturally growing, even tough there have been as many other predators, cub killers, stealers

[b4igetu]

if there aree to many predators, that would make more competition for the cheetah, and everything is pretty much bigger then a cheetah, wild dogs, hyenas, lions, leopards, all can kick cheetahs off a meal, even to many vaultures can kick them away to.

[105km]

read obove

[b4igetu]

yes but the, leopard, and hyena, and wild dog populations can grow to. either from an abundance of food, or loose of prey from one area and migrating. they can all push the cheetah around, the biggest threat to the cheetah is other cheetahs, they can kill each other, and males in groups are very territorial.

also why cant natural selection occur now, theres no reason saying it cant. desease was caused by natural selection like i said before

[105km]

You say cheetahs have enbreeding deformaties (I allready knew that - I know alot obout the cheetah - I know what Im talking obout), like teeth, claws, etc... But fucking think - They have been geneticly similar since the bottleneck ocured, and now, its only getting better, with time they are getting more weriety (NATURALLY OF CORSE, if not for humans today), but thats not the point - thay have had this handican for 20 000 years and yet they have expanded and populations have grown...

[b4igetu]

there defomaties cant be fixe naturally, its impossible, every cheetah is almost geneticly similar, they cant just naturally fix it. yes humans are trying to fix it, but its hard, cheetahs dont do to well in captivity as far as reproduction is, and captive, and wild cheetah populations are going down.

[105km]

And by they used to be bigger do you mean Acinonyx Pardinensis? Well, it did die out as did mammoths, megatheron and other mammals but they had lived trough many ice ages, but this time there were humans on the scene, you cant forget that...

[b4igetu]

i realize humans were on the scene back then, but the thing is, they didnt hunt for pleasure, they hunted for a need for food.

[ktmbua]

@GingerWoods1992 actually the closest thing to evolutionary perfection on this planet would be crocodiles. They have been around the earth before the dinosaurus era and have changed the least. only thing that has changed is their size.

[martendep]

The extension on every stride is breathtaking!

[brick4sale]

Beautiful my favorite animal it kills with such grace.

[incursus415]

Where can i see the whole vid nand not just the pbs clip? anyone got a link or something?

[saucy05]

i don't know why PBS wont post the whole clips, it's not like they are going to lose advertising business, since they don't have one. one thing you can do is download it with torrent site.

[speedcrayzy]

Cool as all