Kiev Caves Lavra

[VoinPerecvet]

ПАТРИАРХ КИРИЛЛ и Богослов Андрей Ткачев, уличены в открытой лжи и САТНИЗМЕ

Смотри видео на youtube : Протоиерей Андрей Ткачев Браки с мусульманами курорты в Турцию страшная тайна Апокалипсиса

[majorgeeek]

Ukraine is recovering from darkest period of its history of occupation and repression under the Russian hegemonious Soviet regeme. Please help Ukraine recover by calling its capital city Kyiv as is correct and official English word. All little things like this help Ukraine towards achieving its total self determination and independence from totalitarian Russian bear

[watcherwatcher2]

@majorgeeek

Kiev is the Ancient Russia's capital.

"The Mother of Russian Cities" - as is written in "The Tale of Bygone Years" -

the first Russian Chronicle (circa 1113) - "Повѣсть времяньныхъ лѣтъ"

And in English it is KIEV, like in "Chicken Kiev"

Besides, the majority of Kiev population speaks Russian.

So long, Troll

[majorgeeek]

@watcherwatcher2 Kyiv (Kiev ) was never Russia's (Moscow) capital - wash your molly mouth with soap and benzine

the word "Russia" does not appear in any ancient text prior 16C including Nestor's Chronicles 12C ie Tales of Bygone Years

majority of Kiev and Ukraine population is NOW speaking less Russian - this correlates with ex Warsaw Pact countries as well

you are narrow minded refugee of Soviet regime living on charity in USA - so long mega troll

[watcherwatcher2]

@majorgeeek Beneath an Oak, a century old A Swine ate acorns once, until his skin was cracking ; And then he could no longer hold His food, he thought that sleep was lacking : He slept, he rose, his small eyes stared about, And under all the roots next poked his grubbing snout. "Methinks that can't but harm the Oak", --It was a Crow that to him spoke From off the tree--," 'twill rot if thou the roots lay'st bare."

[watcherwatcher2]

"Let it, then, rot!" - the Swine replied:

"What's that to me? I do not care;

No use can I see in its leafy pride,

And, when it dies for good, I'll grieve not in the least,

If I have only acorns to fatten me and feast."

[watcherwatcher2]

"Ungrateful that thou art!" - the Oak then gently said: "If thou that snout of thine couldst higher raise, Then wouldst thou know and praise The tree on which alone are acorns bred." I.A. Kriloff Fables 1869

[MrUkrainedude]

write me if someone needs a small tour, I see Lavra from my window every morning=)

[majorgeeek]

Lavra Kyiv was founded by Ukrainian monks who were later evicted and murdered by the invading Russians - so its a simple case of the Russian partriarchy are illegal tenants of Lavra and technically should be evicted. Lavra should be returned to sacred Holy Ukrainian church so that sermons and services can be carried out in Ukrainian language and not in Russian by invaders

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek 6th. Century Khazar manuscripts, the Primary Chronicles, the Paterikon and every historical document for fifteen hundred years has spelled the name K-I-E-V. There was never AND NEVER WILL BE A "kyiv", you filthy uniate janichar! And the Ukraine is the product of Soviet forces and its territory was established by the Bolsheviks. They created it and fostered "Ukrainian" nationality when it didn't exist. So you are totally stupid and don't know what you are writing.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Galicia was occupied for over 700 years before being liberated by the Soviets and made part of a "Ukraine". Prior to that, they were foreign chattel. Learn something you ignoramus!

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The Lavra was founded as a RUSSIAN INSTITUTION by RUSSIAN MONKS as the area surrounding it wasn't even considered a "ukraine" when it was founded. Moreover, "ukrainian monks" don't even come into existence until 1992 along with the supposed "Ukrainian Saints". Where is this Uniate fantasy land. Even in Galicia where the Austrians invented "ukrainian" nationality, that didn't happen until the 1870s. While the Russian Orthodox Church is the Church of St. Vladimir dating from 988 AD

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek There were never any "Ukrainian" monks in the Lavra and indeed there were even any "Ukrainians" until the 1870s IN AUSTRIA as it was a quack artificial identity the Austrians concocted with the Uniate church. While the Russian Orthodox Church was founded by St. Vladimir in 988 AD and the Lavra was part of it, has always been and always will be. People don't speak mova and the Kievan Brotherhood didn't speak it  It was only spoken in Kievan by itenerant slaves.

[majorgeeek]

@jasonbently2002 Vladymir was not Russia - Lavra is holy Ukrainian Sacred Church - The original Kyivan liturgical praxis was supressed by illegal tenants of Lavra the Moscow Patriarchate and replacd it with the Nikonian Russian liturgy. In the same manner, Russian governments (both Tsarist and Soviet) have consistently tried to suppress the Ukrainian Language.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Where, who, what is "vladymir"?! That's another semiliteracy of "ukrainian" nationalism. V-L-A-D-I-M-I-R.  And it most certainly was Great Russia from the get-go. Look at a map and see where it is. Or if you are talking about St. Vladimir, he was PRINCE OF NOVGOROD prior to becoming Grand Prince of Kiev. Take a look at a map and see where that is.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek There is no such thing as anything "kyivan". Even in papal annals since the tenth century, the name is K-I-E-V-A-N. So what the hell is that liturgical practice all about?! Great Russian liturgical practice WAS THE LITURGICS OF KIEVAN RUS' this was attested to by St. Peter of VOHLYNIA who moved the Kievan Metropolia to the North in the THIRTEENTH century. Kievan Little Russian liturgics were not "replaced" but underwent the same Nikonian Reforms as the rest of the Russian church.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The Moscow Patriarchate is the Church of St. Vladimir. It is the Church which founded the Lavra. While the standardization of MOGHILA's reforms, as they were heavily, was OVERSEEN BY LITTLE RUSSIAN AKA "Ukrainian" hierarchs who dominated the Russian Imperial church until the 1850s. So "Ukrainians" suppressed "Ukrainian" liturgics?! What in the world is this kangaroo Uniate nonsense.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The Uniate Church in Galicia NEVER officially adopted the Moghilan reforms so it suppressed Kievan liturgics as well?! STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE. Whereas, the Nikonian reforms in Little Russia WERE CONDUCTED BY ETHNICALLY "UKRAINIAN" prelates to update the latinizations of Moghila. So what you have concocted is the quack propaganda of Uniate kangaroos who know as much about history as the Austrians who invented their "nationality" allowed them to learn.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The Russian Literary Language is by all accounts "THE UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE" because it was the language of the Kievan and Ostrogh (and Lvov) brotherhoods who were the fathers of the linguistic reforms in Imperial Russia after Perejaslavl. NONE OF THE BROTHERHOODS ever used or recognized "mova" as anything but ungrammatical slave speech imposed by Polish overlords and a corruption of the Russian language they used.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The upper echelons of Russian Imperial society were dominated by Little Russians until the fall of the empire. None of these "Ukrainians" ever spoke "mova". They were responsible for the codefication of the All Russian Literary Language which reflected the literary speech of Kiev and its inhabitants. That's why Russian is so prevalent in Kiev today. It is the NATIVE SPEECH of the people.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek While the Tsarist government suppressed Austrian concocted "ukrainian" publications because they were intentionally seditious. Kotliarevsky was never banned, no. While in Austrian Galicia for a time, if one had a book printed in cyrillic, it was grounds for summary arrest. But the native of Galician Rusins IS NOT the mova of Kotliarevsky. Boyko, Hutzul and Lemko Rusin are much closer to Literary Russian, yet the "Ukrainians" suppressed the native tongue of Galicia in Austria?!

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Why the "Ukrainians" with the aid of the Austrian secret people and Uniate church went so far as to have Rusin and native Rusin speakers interred in concentration camps for maintaining their historical speech and identities. The irony of all of it is Galicia IS NOT PART OF THE UKRAINE. The Ukraine itself and its brotherhoods were Middle Ruthenian linguistically and this Middle Ruthenian was one of the bases for Literary Russian. It was even the language of Lvov until the 1850s!

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek While the Bolsheviks encouraged and imposed "Ukrainian" nationality and "Ukrainianism" and Bolshevik tyranny went hand in hand, suppressing the historical RUSIN and LITTLE RUSSIAN ethnic identities. "Ukrainianism" was an import from Austria which did not reflect the history and ethnography of the people but was concocted. There would be no "Ukrainianism" if not for the Communists. "Ukrainianism" is Communist inspired and an intentional quackery imposed upon Little Russia.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Thus, the only thing you prove with your Russian ebonics spellings and Communist sponsored "Ukrainianism" is that it is nothing but a historical fraud and alien and ignorant movement on Russian soil. Talking about Kangaroo language and a "Kangaroo" sacred church would have more basis in reality than anything "ukrainian". No document from the Lavra EVER (since 988AD) asserted that it was a "Ukrainian" Lavra, but always maintained it was a Russian Orthodox monastery.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The word "ukraina" when the Lavra was founded was not used in reference to any of the territories which became Little Russia or Black or Red Ruthenia, but was referred used to refer to Finno Ugric territories around PSKOV. Look at a map and see where Pskov is. There was no "ukrainian" nationality until the Austrians and Uniates invented it in the 1870s IN AUSTRIA. There was Rus' and Rus' was always in Novgorod and in Great Russia.And the Lavra always referred to itself as RUSSKAJA.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Provide ONE historical document where the Lavra is referred to as "ukrainska", where its Saints are referred to as "Ukrainsky" where its Church is referred to as "Ukrainska Pravoslavna". ONE. It would be easier to find a document stating it was KANGAROO, for there IS NO SUCH THING AS "Ukrainian" history to the Lavra as it has BEEN RUSSIAN SINCE ITS FOUNDATION.

[jasonbently2002]

@jasonbently2002 The Lavra antedates "Ukrainian nationality" by NINE HUNDRED YEARS AS A RUSSIAN ORTHODOX INSTITUTION. It was RUSSIAN before the region around Kiev became a "ukraine" as a result of Mongol conquest and Polish-Lithuanian domination. The Lavra was the birthplace of the RUSSIAN IDEA which became the Imperial Russian policy of reintegration of Russian lands after Perejaslavl. "Ukrainian" separatist propaganda is so absurd and unread as to be nothing but ahistorical ignorance.

[majorgeeek]

@jasonbently2002 learn basic history - even 5th grader knows Lavra is Ukrainian Holy Sacred Church stolen by Russian Patricrchate and betrayed by Patriarchate of Constantinople 16th C - the word Ukraina was spoken in Rus before 1168 to mean the different principalities which existed and even competed for central Kyivan leadership - Russia did not exist then so territory and history of Rus is not Russian- Rus is really Ukraine history

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Kangaroo Galician Uniate QUACKERY. The word "ukraina" NEVER meant anything but a "borderland, march, frontier" AND IT WAS NEVER APPLED TO A PRINCIPALITY BUT TO A WILD TERRITORY. That's why the principalities of Kiev, Novgorod, Vladimir, Galich WERE NEVER CALLED "ukrainy" in the Chronicles and there is no instances recorded for the term EVER BEING USED IN REFERENCE TO AN ESTABLISHED AND CIVILIZED CENTER. Such nonsense reflects a total ignorance of HISTORY AND IS A LIE

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek In 988 AD, St. Vladimir founded the RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH. No where in the Chronicles is "Ukrainian church" found, nor is there a nebulous ":sacred church": YOU UNIATE SON OF A BITCHES BETRAYED THE ORTHODOX CHURCH AND ARE HELL BOUND AS A RESULT. St. Vladimir did not found your child molestor apostate church, nor is it "sacred."

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek There IS NO SUCH place as "kyiv" historically. K-I-E-V. THE UKRAINE DID NOT EXIST, but Russia has existed UNINTERRUPTEDLY SINCE KIEVAN TIMES. Novgorod exists and is the foundation for the Great Russian state. Read a history book. Look at a map. Learn something about spelling and the Kievan Brotherhood which introduced the term Russia as a latinization of the name Rus' WHERE BOTH HAVE BEEN USED CONCURRENTLY since Perejaslavl. Learn how to read.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek No where in history is there to be a "Ukrainian" nation or "people" or even a "Ukrainian" language, much the less a "church." Rus' WAS RUS' and the "ukrainy" of Rus' were frontier, semi-civilized territories. The word "ukraina" is only applied to the area around Kiev a century AFTER the Mongol pogrom as a result of its total despoilation by the Tartars. Thus, this quack nonsense along with the heretofore UNKNOWN and semi-literate "kyiv" and "ukrainian church" are simply quackery.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Do find out about Novgorod, the fact that the majority (60%) of the territories of Kievan RUSSIA are part of Great Russia, the fact that Constantinople, Rome and Aachen already in the ninth century refer to Rus as ROSIJA, and that that there never was a city named "kyiv" as there is no historical record of it, its residents NEVER referred to the city as such and its Lavra NEVER once historically referred to itself as "ukrainian" or part of a nebulous "sacred church."

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Provide documents from the Lavra and the historic city of Kiev prior to Bolshevik rule which indicate either a "kyiv" EVER. Not even Hrushevsky, Franko or Ukrainka (DRAGOMANOVA) EVER spells it "kyiv," but, rather K-I-E-V. Show one shred where the Lavra was ever founded as a "ukrainian sacred church" institution and explain why TEN CENTURIES OF HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS SHOW IT TO BE A RUSSIAN ORTHODOX INSTITUTION. TEN CENTURIES. Do learn something about St. Peter of Vohlynia.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek In Uniate janichar kangaroo land, "ukrainian nations" exist before 1870 and "kyivs" are to be found (but only after fifty years of debate ON FOREIGN SOIL of whether or not they should be spelled "kyiw, kiyiw, kiyv and kiyiv" despite TEN CENTURIES of LITERATE and NATIVE SPELLING OF K-I-E-V. To accept your stupidity is to go through the Uniate looking glass and enter the fantasy land of Rus' never existing of the Lavra whose Paterikon is clear for all to read not bng Russian Orthodox

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek In your crazy and fictional bizarro world, Constantinople betrays a "Ukrainian" church which did not exist, that somehow, the Little Russian Metropolia didn't call it Russian Orthodox, WHICH IT HISTORICALLY DID and that somehow Little Russian AKA "Ukrainian" hierarchs after Perejaslavl' somehow didn't represent the "Ukrainian" interests within the Russian Orthodox church which they ran. STUPIDITY and NONSENSE.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The Little Russian Metropolia, what you term the "Ukrainian church," SOMETHING IT NEVER CALLED ITSELF, had been betrayed by the Brest Unia, apostasy, in 1596 and ceased to exist. Moreover, Vygovsky had it BANNED and liquidated on Little Russian territory by the Treaty of Hadiach, which incidentally created a RUSSIAN PRINCIPALITY in recz pospolita, spelled RUSSIA. But you have totally illustrated the illegitimate FICTION of "ukrainian nationality" and "ukrainianism" for all to read.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Do explain for us all how the Brotherhoods (Kiev, Ostrogh, Lvov, Vilna), the Hetmans from Sagaidachny to Mazeppa and especially Vygovsky, Kotliarevsky, Tschevchenko, Franko, Hrushevsky even the UGCC ALL HISTORICALLY AFFIRM A RUSIN OR LITTLE RUSSIAN, EVEN RUSSIAN ethnic identity, but NEVER ONCE even have a conception of a "ukrainian nationality," partially because one didn't exist and most importantly because they were nominally faithful to Rus'.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek Novgorod was the first city of Rus' and remains Rus' UNINTERRUPTEDLY UNTIL TODAY. The name Russia is a latinization of the word Rus' and has been used interchangeably since the taxonomy Russia was created by the Kievan Brotherhood after Lublin. Even exploring WHY the name Russia comes into existence thoroughly discredits this nonsense. The Brotherhoods begin using it as an alternative to the Uniate Latin term Ruthenia, which they equate with Polish enslavement and Unia. 

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek You fail at even basic history and spelling. My family MADE THIS HISTORY, you Galician Gutter Russian janichar. While even a fifth grader doesn't make the myriad of mistakes, ignores primary documents, the actual people themselves, even maps, to asser the stupidity you call "ukrainianism." There simply was NEVER a native "ukrainian nationality" or history EVER. That is just reality. But you Galician Uniate trash can call it kangaroo and talk about the mighty pope of kangaroo.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The word "ukraina" means "march, borderland, frontier". In Kievan times, IT NEVER REFERED TO ANY LITTLE RUSSIAN OR RUTHENIAN TERRITORY BUT PRINCIPALLY REFERRED TO FINNO UGRIC TERRITORIES IN GREAT RUSSIA. The word means RUSSIAN FRONTIER. How hard is that to get?! If there were a "ukrainian" nationality, why did Kotliarevsky, Tschevchenko and even Franko all call themselves R-U-S-I-N-S. Maybe you should find a fifth grader to explain this to you.

[jasonbently2002]

@majorgeeek The surest way to bring peace to the Ukraine is to partition away Galicia and enforce the Treaty of Hadiach regarding the Uniate Church, declare martial law, and begin the exile of every blue and yellow, orange Uniate son of a bitch that can be found and the execution of every neo-NAZI bastard that opens his mouth. Moreover, the entire STUPIDITY of "ukrainianism" localized to the NON-Ukrainian territory of Galicia will insure it dies out. CHAINS FOR GALICIA! DEATH TO UNIA!

[hetmans1]

I agree with Kyivcossacks....the Russian Orthodox church refuses to accept Ukrainian independence and refuse to acknowledge Russian atrocities when many millions of innocent Ukrainian were killed and many died in Holodomor. Even today the Russians in Lavra refuse to allow a monument for Holodomor - they sound very fascist and soviet to me

[jasonbently2002]

@hetmans1 Golodomor in 1932 was sponsored UKRAINIAN Communists in the Ukraine, Filiwiw, while it wasn't only a Ukrainian phenomenon, but effected the Don, the Volga region, the Kuban and even spread into Kazakhstan while you Galician bastards part of it, but in 1913, you exacerbated a famine artificially in Austrian occupied Russia and starved Rusins to death by impressing upon the Austrians to refuse aid to the starving because it was sent by the Tsar. You also denounced Rusins to Talerhoff.

[jasonbently2002]

@hetmans1 So your agreement with that idiot shows how much an idiot you are while a Galician Uniate son of a bitch calling himself a "cossack" or "hetman" is as laughible as you calling yourself a "Ukrainian". Galicia is RED RUSSIA, not the Ukraine! Its people don't even speak mova.

[padloz]

Interesting photage, too bad the quality isn't better.

[kyivcossacks]

Kyiv Caves Lavra are sacred Holy Ukrainian sites currently under occupation by illegal tenants the Russian Orthodoxy. This and other sacred sites all over Ukraine were siezed illegally and sanctioned by Soviet forces under Moscow. Lavra which contains sacred remains of Ukrainian Saints and holiest must be surrended to Ukrainian Orthodox church. Correct English spelling Kyiv not Russian Kiev

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks For one, the K-I-E-V Caves lavra is a living institutions of Rus' and its Church is the Church of St. Vladimir, the Russian Orthodox Church. The Lavra predates the Austrian concocted "Ukrainian" identity and will outlive it. There have been no "Ukrainian" Saints, only RUSSIAN Saints who rejected that hateful, UNIATE filth of a Polish slave identity. Finally, pick up a copy of the Chronicles and any manuscript of the Kiev Brotherhood. The proper spelling is K-I-E-V historically.

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks Finally, you are NO Cossack of any given Host but a defender of Unia and Freemasonic plunder of Kiev and her holy sites. I am a scion of the old Zapozhian Cossacks, whose ancestors were instructed in the schools of the Kiev Brotherhood, and we were RUSSIANS THEN AND ARE RUSSIANS NOW. Take your Polish Uniate filth back to Galicia, FOR WE COSSACKS WILL NOT TOLERATE THE DIVISION OF RUSSIAN TERRITORY OR OF THE RUSSIAN CHURCH! YOU JANICHAR WILL YET RECEIVE THE COSSACK GNOUT!

[kyivcossacks]

@jasonbently2002 rubbish Russian - Ukrainian Cossacks and Hetman Khmelnytsy needed an interpreter when conversing with Russian delegates at the signing of Treaty of Pereyaslav - even a 5th grader knows Ukrainian history better than you - illegal annexations and force by arms does not give Russia the right to highjack Ukraine's history -

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks Firstly, MY FAMILY MADE THAT HISTORY AND WE KNOW IT QUITE WELL. Secondly, your knowledge of "history" doesn't even know the difference between "Ukrainian" Cossacks, WHO WERE THE CHARTERED COSSACKS OF THE POLISH CROWN and TRAITORS TO RUS' and Orthodoxy and the Zaporozhians of whom Khmelnitsky was one. The Zaporozhians fought the Ukrainian Cossacks, you Galician janichar. So, learn something before you write such stupidity again.

[jasonbently2002]

@jasonbently2002 ZAPOROZHIANS NEVER CALLED THEMSELVES ETHNIC "UKRAINIANS" BUT RUSINS OR LITTLE RUSSIANS. They wrote at Perejaslavl for instance "MY MALOROSIJANJE VELIM BYTI POD TSAREM MOSKOVSKIM PRAVOSLAVNYM". ZAPOROZHIANS SAW THEMSELVES AS RUSSIANS COSSACKS. I KNOW-THEY WERE MY ANCESTORS, YOU GALICIAN UNIATE SCUM! So their being "ukrainian" is about as accurate as this city called "kyiv" never known in any manuscript or history book. "Ukrainian" nationality doesn't exist until the 1870s

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks While the only RUBBISH here is your total ignorance of the fact that the Perejaslavl Treaty was coordinated by the Cossacks and the Kievan Brotherhood who contacted the Tsar and Boyars in correspondence in RUSSIAN as that was the language of the Brotherhood WHICH NEVER USED THE POLISH SLAVE DIALECT OF MOVA.,

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks Moreover, there were no interpreters used at Perejaslavl, for both sides spoke a COMMON RUSSIAN LANGUAGE which incidentally wasn't "mova" as that was an ignorant and ungrammatical slave dialect. Khmelnitsky knew Russian quite well, being educated by the Brotherhoods. The language of the Brotherhoods was one of the bases For the Russian literary language. So your Uniate lie would mean that Khmelnitsky needed an interpreter to converse with the Brotherhoods.

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks See, Middle Russian and Middle Ruthenian were essentially the same language with small differences in spelling and that was born out by the correspondence between Khmelnitsky and Moscow, where it is clear he knew proper Russian as a first language and spoke it and DID NOT USE THE POLISH SLAVE DIALECT OF MOVA as no Little Russian institution did. So learn something before you write such Uniate stupidity, janichar.

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks Firstly, there was never a "Kyiv Caves Lavra". Is that in Winnipeg. There is a Kiev Caves Lavra and it has called itself a RUSSKAJA PRAVOSLAVNAJA LAVRA SINCE 988 AD. There has only been a "Ukrainian" anything since the 1870s and then it was invented by the Austrian secret police and Uniate church on territory which isn't even part of the Ukraine. Galicia was historically CHERVONAJA RUS', RED RUSSIA, its people called themselves RUSINS and they didn't speak Kotliarevsky's mova.

[jasonbently2002]

@kyivcossacks The word "ukraina" means "march, borderland, frontier". In Kievan times, IT NEVER REFERED TO ANY LITTLE RUSSIAN OR RUTHENIAN TERRITORY BUT PRINCIPALLY REFERRED TO FINNO UGRIC TERRITORIES IN GREAT RUSSIA. The word means RUSSIAN FRONTIER. How hard is that to get?! If there were a "ukrainian" nationality, why did Kotliarevsky, Tschevchenko and even Franko all call themselves R-U-S-I-N-S. Galician Uniate QUACK STUPIDITY which was sponosored by the Communists, Communist propaganda.

[rtmpx]

I was there